A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[NicoRobin]

I've played with her as both alignments

There's some jarring differences

Well, she can manipulate her playstyle to make you think she is town even she is not.

Also, didn't you tr her on role alone?

And yet suddenly, you are talking about how you read her on playstyle as well, which kinda contradicts everything you have said up till now.

[NicoRobin]

So I decided to rattle your cage a bit to see what would come out. And what came out are four scumreads 'stead of one

[NicoRobin]

I've played with her as both alignments

There's some jarring differences

Well, she can manipulate her playstyle to make you think she is town even she is not.

Also, didn't you tr her on role alone?

And yet suddenly, you are talking about how you read her on playstyle as well, which kinda contradicts everything you have said up till now.

This was about you again

She played with me more often than you had, y'know

[NicoRobin]

Also, just because you played three or so games with me doesn't make you an expert on reading me.

[NicoRobin]

Bring it on.

[NicoRobin]

I was framed, but then you would know all about that, won't you, jjh?

After all, the three of you worked together to frame me?

Did mastina tell you to scumread me while she buddies me at the same time?

Because that kind of approach is kinda getting old by now.

[NicoRobin]

I'm not gonna case you just yet but I know it worries you that I will


How have you been framed? Please elaborate

Simple. There are two possible scenarios:

Scenario 1) You said that I'd need to kill you if I were scum. Then you deliberately no-killed and you sprouted some gibberish about being deathproof to create an illusion that I attempted to kill you, and mastina exposed my lie, thus turning the rest of town against me, while calling me town at the same time to make me trust her.

Scenario 2) You said that I'd need to kill you if I were scum. Then the actual scum (which I still maintain include mastina) no-killed, figuring out that you'll assume that I tried to kill you come day-start

Simple enough for you?

[NicoRobin]

I'll give you a "Faked a guilty to try and get people to jump on a wagon before she gets the chance to gladiate on the off-chance people forget she's hated"

And again, you aren't even considering the possibility she could be scum.

I give both of you one more chance.

If you are town, then you'll entertain the possibility she is scum in your next post. If you don't, then she is your partner and you're protecting her.

p-edit: Exactly, which is why scenario 2 doesn't work, meaning scenario 1 is the correct solution.

[NicoRobin]

Okay, so in scenario 1, how does you faking a guilty end up in my plan?

I will not argue further with scum. I asked for one simple analysis entertaining the possibility mastina is scum in your next post, and you didn't give it.

Therefore, you three are scum and you are protecting mastina.

So I see no point in arguing with you.

I will have all three of you lynched sooner or later, make no mistake about that. It starts the moment mastina refuses to gladiate me.

[NicoRobin]

No I think NR is actually just bad at the game

You can be bad at the game while being scum

Mini Theme 1936.

p-edit: Yes. Would you consider changing yours positions if I find out info that condemns her?

[NicoRobin]

Anyway, I am leaving now.

[NicoRobin]

Would you consider changing yours positions if I find out info that condemns her?

If you promise me, 100%, that you will not fakeclaim this result as town, and you get an incriminating result on mastina, I will return to the premise that one of the two of you must be scum and determine which one of you it is using every method at my disposal. Which, notably, was my position before mastina claimed you faked a guilty. If you get the information that mastina is a loyal gladiator, either mastina is town or both Chickadee and Kuroi are scum with her and this game is going to be super easy.

Note: This does include making Creature elaborate on why mastina is scum now. (In fact, Creature should just do that.)

And if I get proof that she is scum?

All I've gotten from both of you is what you'd do if my results say that she wasn't lying, not what you'd do if she was lying......

[NicoRobin]

No I think NR is actually just bad at the game

You can be bad at the game while being scum

Mini Theme 1936.

Not ecologically valid

Why isn't it valid?

[NicoRobin]

No I think NR is actually just bad at the game

You can be bad at the game while being scum

Mini Theme 1936.

Not ecologically valid

Why isn't it valid?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_validity

More bs. It's a perfectly valid game, one where I was not dumb. You are dismissing it so you can continue to portray me as dumb, which fits your narrative. Thus, you are merely proving my point.

[NicoRobin]

Um, NR, who is your alt in that game?

I got 4 pages in before realizing you weren't on the player list.

She's Yume, the player the game was built around. The playerlist was assembled specifically out of people who were not only willing to play with Yume, but would also have been on board with the core concept of basically being a showcase for Yume actually playing the game. Thus, a playerlist who would be less inclined to lynch or kill her than average that in turn would be even further dissuaded from lynching or killing her and a game designed around her preferences as a player make for EXTREMELY poor ecological validity as an actual representation of her abilities as a player.

That doesn't make it not-legitimate. >.>

[NicoRobin]

It works at the start of the night.

[NicoRobin]

No, I submit it at night, and yes, she does.

[NicoRobin]

Okay, so jjh and Jingle messed with my result in order to protect mastina, just as I suspected. >.>

VOTE: jjh
HURT: Jingle

[NicoRobin]

So fess up, you two: which one of you did it?!

[NicoRobin]

I meant to say 'or' there, but the question remains: which one of you did it?

[NicoRobin]

Which one of you messed with my results?

P.S. I will reveal everything in the morning.

[NicoRobin]

One of you didn't want me to potentially guilty mastina, so you messed up with my results.

That's the only explanation I can think of.

[NicoRobin]

Oh, I am not wrong. If I was, I'd say it.

I got no result, so someone had to have messed with my result in one way or another, and it was one of you two.

[NicoRobin]

Because you have the strongest motivation to do so, in order to protect your scum partner, of course.

Anyway, gn

[NicoRobin]

It's funny because for people to believe this is actually your townplay, NR, they must have lower opinions of your skill than I do

You do you, I do me.

Oh, and by the way, the no result was a tracker result, meaning that mastina is innocent.

You two are probably still scum trying to buddy her or something.

[NicoRobin]

Enjoy.

[NicoRobin]

I already had my result and already gave it..... *sigh*

[NicoRobin]

I got no result. Won't say it again. Learn to read.

[NicoRobin]

I had some misunderstandings over how my role works.

[NicoRobin]

Did you think you were a rolecop when you were actually a tracker or some shit?

Yes.

[NicoRobin]

Porkens rejected the thing and so NR got the triple vote

Well, now that the cat is out of the bag, that's why I scumread him. Given the consequences of rejection, town have no reason to reject. The only reason to reject is if the pros outweighed the cons ie. that giving up his role would get him lynched for sure.

[NicoRobin]

Porkens rejected the thing and so NR got the triple vote

Well, now that the cat is out of the bag, that's why I scumread him. Given the consequences of rejection, town have no reason to reject. The only reason to reject is if the pros outweighed the cons ie. that giving up his role would get him lynched for sure.

So what is it, tracking or role cop?

That's it?

No reaction towards my reason for scumreading him?

[NicoRobin]

I'm a tracker.

[NicoRobin]

Right so you're a tracker who finds out what the target did the night before if they agree to reveal their role to you and you thought you were a rolecop before and now you're claiming you got a no result which is distinctly different from a "Your target did not visit anyone" but you think Mastina is innocent because of it

Well, I am glad that you are finally agreeing that mastina could be scum.

[NicoRobin]

So you could twist it to fit your narrative? :c

[NicoRobin]

Respond to Chickadee or my narrative is the best approximation of your role we have

Even if I do, you'll still twist it to fit your narrative.

[NicoRobin]

Remember when I had to ask you to do this like 6 times in Spring Fever and you were scum

Well, you already decided I am scum, and I doubt anything would change your mind.

But whatever.

I am Nico Robin, conditional triple voter conditional tracker/watcher.

Each night I target a player and they have 48 hours to give me who they visited. If they don't, I gain a triple vote against them. I targeted Porkens N1 and mastina N2. My action on Porkens failed and I got no result on mastina.

Now go ahead, twist everything I said according to your narrative so that you can continue to scumread me with impunity. >.>

[NicoRobin]

Not the character, the user.

[NicoRobin]

I picked myself.

[NicoRobin]

Can you clarify that it was "no result" that you got on Mastina as opposed to "Mastina did not visit anyone"

Yes, it was.

[NicoRobin]

I refused and got triple voted

I want to know why you refused. Imo, I would not have, given that having a triple vote on you is worse.

[NicoRobin]

He clearly doesn't want to reveal either to you or to anyone and a triple vote is not that bad

Oh, really? He disagrees with you, considering he freaked out about it and threatened to give out my role just because I had a triple vote on him.

Also, if he freaked out that badly because of the triple vote despite knowing it would happen if he refuses, then why did he refuse in the first place? That's what I want to know.

[NicoRobin]

He didn't really freak though

Your role bullies people
Alisae would never have okayed this if e was reviewing as I believe was the original plan

He did freak out. I could bring out the quotes that prove he did.

Also, I was asking him, not you.

Why are you answering for him?

I am feeling more and more confident in my scumreads being right the more you post......

[NicoRobin]

Also, those sure do look like he is freaking out to me.......

...

Pick another Target.

Sigh. My death will not be instructive.

Change your vote or I'll explain your role to everyone.

[NicoRobin]

This one at most

Change your vote or I'll explain your role to everyone.

it does look like he is freaking out, admit it.

[NicoRobin]

I don't think his answers are gonna be any different from mine, else absent entirely.

Not good enough, Mr. Know-it-all

Considering the sting I get for answering for someone else, you are not gonna get away with it either.

VOTE: jjh

[NicoRobin]

It's jjh/Jingle/Porkens/mastina scumteam.

Didn't you notice how whenever I try to pressure Porkens and/or mastina, jjh is always there to defend them in some way?

I wonder why that is?

[NicoRobin]

Of course, you might not believe me.

In that case, try pressuring one of them. I guarantee that jjh would appear in a jiffy, defending them like there is no tomorrow.

They are probably having a real laugh at our expense in their scummy den, pointing fingers at us and giggling, telling one another we're grasping the air and patting one another on the back for a job well done.

[NicoRobin]

It's jjh/Jingle/Porkens/mastina scumteam.

Didn't you notice how whenever I try to pressure Porkens and/or mastina, jjh is always there to defend them in some way?

I wonder why that is?

Gee I don't know

That's not the point. The point is that every single time you are on, you defend them. Why aren't you doing something other than defending them?

For instance, where is your case on me you've promised?

You failed to post it because there is nothing to post, and because you need to defend your scumbuddies instead.

[NicoRobin]

My role says tracker/watcher.

[NicoRobin]

also, why don't you have an answer to my earlier post, jjh?

[NicoRobin]

Oh do you mean the one where you accused me of exclusively doing something that I'm not doing, and asked about the case I might or might not actually make because I've actually got important shit to do this week

Oh? Then care to explain why are you 100% sure than mastina is town and why are you answering questions for Porkens rather than letting him do so himself?

[NicoRobin]

I've answered questions for you before

Am I defending you

No, but you are defending them. Like you never even wondered why town!Porkens would try to hide info from me?

[NicoRobin]

Question: does your role specify that the person youre targetting gets asked to reveal their role, but then that it gives you tracker/watcher powers on that person instead?

Is there any indication in your role pm that hints at the prompt lying to these people about what is actually being asked of them to surrender?

That's about the long and the short of it, yeah.

[NicoRobin]

So youre saying people are indeed asked to reveal their role, but instead you watch/track them?

Yes.

[NicoRobin]

What's the flavour for your different abilities called

Make the damn uPick and You Promised

@Vecna I looked at my role PM again, and it seems that I am not a Watcher after all, but a Role Cop.

Guess this is what happens when I don't read my own role PM thoroughly..... :O

At this point, I deserve to be lynched for sheer stupidity......

[NicoRobin]

What's the flavour for your different abilities called

Make the damn uPick and You Promised

@Vecna I looked at my role PM again, and it seems that I am not a Watcher after all, but a Role Cop.

Guess this is what happens when I don't read my own role PM thoroughly..... :O

At this point, I deserve to be lynched for sheer stupidity......

Luckily, we have just the thing to check if this was stupidity, or just scumlicious.

Except that mastina could refuse to gladiate me.......

[NicoRobin]

This is a personal hell of mine
Why are we letting this game be held hostage by

two

one player

s

?

What Vecna said.

Also, maybe the game being held hostage is a good thing?

Remember what happened the last time people protested against mastina for holding the game hostage?

Hint: Scum eliminated the benevolent third party. Scum eliminated my benevolent third party.

[NicoRobin]

We'll see about that.

What makes you think you could stop her from refusing?

This isn't One Piece. You can't just refuse someone's refusal.

[NicoRobin]

This is a personal hell of mine
Why are we letting this game be held hostage by

two

one player

s

?

What Vecna said.

Also, maybe the game being held hostage is a good thing?

Remember what happened the last time people protested against mastina for holding the game hostage?

Hint: Scum eliminated the benevolent third party. Scum eliminated my benevolent third party.

This was for you @Varsoon

[NicoRobin]

We'll see about that.

What makes you think you could stop her from refusing?

This isn't One Piece. You can't just refuse someone's refusal.

Still not 'refusing her refusal'.

[NicoRobin]

And Varsoon still hasn't replied to my statement......

[NicoRobin]

None of you seem o be considering the possibility that she'd just refuse to gladiate me if she is scum.

[NicoRobin]

So, jjh, who played two games with me, things he could meta-read me better than mastina, who played more than four games with me?

Try again, pal.

[NicoRobin]

So, jjh, who played two games with me, things he could meta-read me better than mastina, who played more than four games with me?

Try again, pal.

I think you can manipulate your gameplay to get Mastina, who has played a lot of games with you and likes to use meta, to believe you're town.[/quote

Do you think you can meta-read me better than her? Yes or no? No offshooting.

[NicoRobin]

The post restriction being optional was not something I considered when making the push on Vecna. It was a new possibility. A lot of my read came from the mechanics of designing post restrictions that don't ruin games for players. The IC claim was some low effort Hull crap and the argument of how he wanted to limit how much he was doing the colour thing was pretty bullcrap too, but my immediate reaction to his early day 2 was that he was town.

I've not metadived NicoRobin yet because I had an important presentation to give yesterday, and if I was reading shit I should have been reading scientific papers. For what it's worth, I don't think I'd have been as distracted by this game as scum, because I find it a chore to play scumgames. You really should metadive me.

At the end of the day, I am still more confident in my NicoRobin scumread than I have ever been in any read I have ever had. It does not feel right to push elsewhere at this time. Furthermore, my stance as to why has not changed. None of the positions I have taken are mutually exclusive.



I agree that using my ability is mechanically suboptimal, but there is more than mechanics at play and the difference in the mechanics isn't particularly great.





To anyone irrationally scared of voting - please use hurt tags

^scum

[NicoRobin]

You think I can possibly manipulate mastina, a God tier player?

Well, I thank you for overestimating my skillz, but be realistic here.

[NicoRobin]

I'd also like to point out that while Nico's longest-lasting account was Yume, she had her original account before that.
Varsoon in particular should be familiar with her in this game given that he referenced how his role PM this game is near-identical to a role he designed from that game.
Another towngame.
Another Nico towngame, also modded by Varsoon no less.
Here's another Nico towngame.
And another Nico towngame.
Here's yet another Nico towngame.
And one more Nico towngame, for good measure.

Nico has VERY strong ingrained tendencies that have lasted for years across accounts.

Which is more likely, jjh?
That you, somehow, MAGICALLY, with your lack of experience, can read her as scum, and that she is a MASTER manipulator of her scumgame so good that

literally every player who knows her

is telling you she's town but no you're so good you saw through it...

...Or that the one time you read her right, you just got lucky, and that what you see most of the time really is what you get, that all the people calling her town have damn good reason to be calling her town and that you are basing your read off of an anomaly rather than the norm?

She said it better than I could.

[NicoRobin]

UNVOTE:

[NicoRobin]

Because I did not wanted to get lynched or gladiated (mostly the former though, since the gladiate was not really on my mind at all at that time).

So you're okay with it happening to others, but not to yourself?

Noted.

[NicoRobin]

HURT: Varsoon, jjh, Jingle, Porkens

[NicoRobin]

Well, that's the option most people want. :O

[NicoRobin]

UNVOTE: NicoRobin

(this has no implication for my desires to see him gladiated, just in case JJH really is gonna do his shit)

Oh and JJH, if you do do it, im lynching you full stop. Its cute you wanna pressure Mastina and all, but useful shit is actually finally happening.

FOR THE LAST TIME, I AM A SHE. CALL ME BY PROPER PRONOUN OR I WILL REPORT YOU FOR BLATANT DISRESPECT.

[NicoRobin]

Like ive called you a she in 99/100 of my posts concerning you, and I make a mistake once and you flip out? Wtf is your problem.

I am pissed off because people expect me to call them by correct pronoun all the time and flip out on me when I don't, but will not extend the same courtesy to me. >.>

[NicoRobin]

Basically, I flipped out to show all of you how that feels.

[NicoRobin]

Consider that [redacted] flipped out when I called them by wrong pronoun ONCE, not multiple times, your 'analysis' is wrong.

[NicoRobin]

Mastinas role is dumb let’s just kill mastina

Good luck with that. They prefer getting endgamed by her than lynching her, they said as much themselves.

[NicoRobin]

All right. Time to reveal my cards. mastina could be town.

VOTE: Fire

I want Firebringer out of the game for my own sanity.

[NicoRobin]

Varsoon.

[NicoRobin]

Portgas D. Ace is the best thing to have happened to this pitiful universe. He is my God of Fire, and everyone that says otherwise will be indoctrinated into the Church of Portgas D. Ace. He is. without a doubt, the best thing that happened in the society. Our universe was created to worship him and his true worth cannot be measured using worldly units of measurements. Like a genius once said, in order to show our love for him, we need to measure out a circumference of a plant, and then multiply it. But I shall not bore you with this scientific babble any longer. The point I want to convey is that Portgas D. Ace is a literal God, and everyone that says otherwise is wrong, plain and simple. Why is Portgas D. Ace so awesome, you might ask. Well, it's because he is a natural sweetheart with a hot body, and this alone is the reason enough. Therefore, he should be worshipped. Like ancient Sumerians did. Ancient Sumerians had the right idea. They had their own God of Fire, although I can't recall his name anymore. Portgas D. Ace is the true Firebringer. Why? Because he wields the power of fire, of course. Check his wikipedia page if you don't believe me. What? Did you think I had another reason? Portgas D. Ace is the best thing to have happened to this pitiful universe. He is my God of Fire, and everyone that says otherwise will be indoctrinated into the Church of Portgas D. Ace. He is. without a doubt, the best thing that happened in the society. Our universe was created to worship him and his true worth cannot be measured using worldly units of measurements. Like a genius once said, in order to show our love for him, we need to measure out a circumference of a plant, and then multiply it. But I shall not bore you with this scientific babble any longer. The point I want to convey is that Portgas D. Ace is a literal God, and everyone that says otherwise is wrong, plain and simple. Why is Portgas D. Ace so awesome, you might ask. Well, it's because he is a natural sweetheart with a hot body, and this alone is the reason enough. Therefore, he should be worshipped. Like ancient Sumerians did. Ancient Sumerians had the right idea. They had their own God of Fire, although I can't recall his name anymore. Portgas D. Ace is the true Firebringer. Why? Because he wields the power of fire, of course. Check his wikipedia page if you don't believe me. What? Did you think I had another reason? Portgas D. Ace is the best thing to have happened to this pitiful universe. He is my God of Fire, and everyone that says otherwise will be indoctrinated into the Church of Portgas D. Ace. He is. without a doubt, the best thing that happened in the society. Our universe was created to worship him and his true worth cannot be measured using worldly units of measurements. Like a genius once said, in order to show our love for him, we need to measure out a circumference of a plant, and then multiply it. But I shall not bore you with this scientific babble any longer. The point I want to convey is that Portgas D. Ace is a literal God, and everyone that says otherwise is wrong, plain and simple. Why is Portgas D. Ace so awesome, you might ask. Well, it's because he is a natural sweetheart with a hot body, and this alone is the reason enough. Therefore, he should be worshipped. Like ancient Sumerians did. Ancient Sumerians had the right idea. They had their own God of Fire, although I can't recall his name anymore. Portgas D. Ace is the true Firebringer. Why? Because he wields the power of fire, of course. Check his wikipedia page if you don't believe me. What? Did you think I had another reason? Portgas D. Ace is the best thing to have happened to this pitiful universe. He is my God of Fire, and everyone that says otherwise will be indoctrinated into the Church of Portgas D. Ace. He is. without a doubt, the best thing that happened in the society. Our universe was created to worship him and his true worth cannot be measured using worldly units of measurements. Like a genius once said, in order to show our love for him, we need to measure out a circumference of a plant, and then multiply it. But I shall not bore you with this scientific babble any longer. The point I want to convey is that Portgas D. Ace is a literal God, and everyone that says otherwise is wrong, plain and simple. Why is Portgas D. Ace so awesome, you might ask. Well, it's because he is a natural sweetheart with a hot body, and this alone is the reason enough. Therefore, he should be worshipped. Like ancient Sumerians did. Ancient Sumerians had the right idea. They had their own God of Fire, although I can't recall his name anymore. Portgas D. Ace is the true Firebringer. Why? Because he wields the power of fire, of course. Check his wikipedia page if you don't believe me. What? Did you think I had another reason? This article may or may not have been created in mockery of Firebringer. But then again, he deserves such treatment, because he is unworthy of wearing that pirate hat. He is not a true pirate, and only wears that hat to mock Portgas D. Ace, the one true God. He deserves similar treatment. After all, people and fictional characters have died for less, Portgas D. Ace included. But he didn't die, he merely ascended to higher plane of existence, and returned to his position as a God of Fire, in a true Assyrian fashion. Regarding fictional characters who have died for less, you should know that some fictional judges forced a fictional girl who was innocent to confess by torturing her and then had the gall to act as if she confessed on her own free will. And then they killed her mother, who was only trying to protect her. You should read novels by Victor Hugo if you don't believe me. Peace out. And don't forget, Portgas D. Ace is the only true Firebringer. Anyone else who calls themselves by that name, not to mention the pirate hat, is nothing but a fraud.

[NicoRobin]

Portgas D. Ace, born as Gol D. Ace and nicknamed "Fire Fist" Ace, was the adopted older brother of Luffy and Sabo, and son of the late Pirate King, Gol D. Roger and his lover, Portgas D. Rouge. He was adopted by Monkey D. Garp as wished by Roger to him before his birth. Ace was the 2nd division commander of the Whitebeard Pirates and one-time captain of the Spade Pirates. Hunted by the World Government for his lineage, Ace was captured and sentenced to death, which resulted in the Battle of Marineford in an all out clash of powers. Ace was freed, but he sacrificed his life to protect his younger brother from Akainu. His death ultimately proved to be the catalyst leading to Luffy to train for two years to become strong enough to protect his friends, paving the way for the second half of the series. Although they were not blood related, Ace looked remarkably like his foster brother, Luffy. However, Ace was more serious looking than Luffy's lighthearted design, and was also taller and more muscular. He also sported rather childish freckles (inherited from his mother), and tended to make a skeptical facial expression by raising his left eyebrow. Interestingly, his facial features were almost akin to his biological father Gol D. Roger in his youth without his mustache. Ace's tattoos were among his most remarkable, trademark features. He had a tattoo on his back of the Whitebeard symbol — purple bones formed in a cross behind a purple skull with a white mustache — that he described as his pride and joy. Ace had another tattoo on his upper left bicep that spells "ASCE" vertically. The "S" crossed out is a tribute to Sabo as that's his jolly roger. On the cover of Chapter 596 indeed, Ace's tattoo is written as "ACE" instead of the original "ASCE" as the cover is a "what if" image of Ace, Luffy, and Sabo together as adults with the former being known to be alive. Ace wore an open-front shirt until he received Whitebeard's tattoo - afterwards, he stopped wearing anything over his upper body except when on winter or desert islands due to the weather requirements. He wore black boots, black knee-length shorts with an eyelet-studded orange belt, and a blue pouch belted around his left leg. He also wore a short second belt with a large red "A" on the silver buckle over his right hip, but left it unfastened and threaded the free end along the back of his shorts. A dagger in a green sheath hung at his left hip. On Ace's left arm, he wore a Log Pose and a red and white striped bracelet around his wrist, an orange elbow guard, and his "ASCE" tattoo. He wore a red beaded necklace and an orange hat with two blue smileys, one frowning and one smiling, and a string of red beads sitting above the rim. Two long orange side straps hung down sides of his hat and met at a large medallion of a bull's skull with orange tassels. Unfortunately, Ace lost his trademark hat, which he already had when he began his journey as a pirate, on Banaro Island as a result of his duel with Blackbeard. His knife was also apparently confiscated, as he no longer had it in his next appearance as a prisoner at Impel Down. The tattoo upon his back that he took so much pride in was later destroyed by the same blow that eventually led to his death. However, at his grave, Ace's hat and knife were placed at his tombstone — either they were retrieved, or they were duplicates in Ace's possession. During the ending credits in the second movie, Clockwork Island Adventure, previews of upcoming characters from the Baroque Works Saga were featured. Ace was also included amongst the many characters, but while his clothes were almost identical, he boasted a very different color scheme to the one he was given in his official appearance in the anime. As a child, Ace is shown to have often worn t-shirts with two-kanji phrases on the front (such as "innocence" and "violence"). On some occasions they are linked to the scene in which they were worn, like "independence" when the three brothers built their own tree house to live in. He often wore knee-length shorts and a black elbow guard on his left arm. Ace was always seen wearing dark brown, flat, slipper-like shoes, and in the winter, he wore a green cardigan over his normal clothes. Upon leaving Dawn Island at the age of 17, he wore an outfit identical to the one he wore when he first met Whitebeard; however, he was less muscular than he eventually grew to be and had rounder, more childlike facial features.

[NicoRobin]

We don't really get anything out of this though? Scum can lie and we would have no way to disprove them

I think you lied. Specifically, lied about being bulletproof.

[NicoRobin]

You could always have done your whole rolecop thing and I'd have 100% given it you even though you're scum because I've already fullclaimed but w/e

Also lies. I received nothing in my inbox despite targeting you.

[NicoRobin]

You could always have done your whole rolecop thing and I'd have 100% given it you even though you're scum because I've already fullclaimed but w/e

Also lies. I received nothing in my inbox despite targeting you.

Oh you're claiming your action failed completely here?

Actually, it didn't. The mod was just late in giving me the info. :/

[NicoRobin]

You could always have done your whole rolecop thing and I'd have 100% given it you even though you're scum because I've already fullclaimed but w/e

Also lies. I received nothing in my inbox despite targeting you.

Oh you're claiming your action failed completely here?

Actually, it didn't. The mod was just late in giving me the info. :/

Wait, are you saying that you intended to target jj and the previous conversation wasn't some kind of reaction test?

That's about right.

[NicoRobin]

So you did lie after all.

[NicoRobin]

I dunno I'm pretty sure I just said I'm deathproof

you lied about it being a full deathproof instead of a one-shot.

[NicoRobin]

because only scum or crazy survivalists lie, and I don't peg him as a crazy survivalist.

[NicoRobin]

Why does Firebringer still think I am incompetent when I have proven time and time again I can play well?

[NicoRobin]

Competency requires consistency

It was consistent. >.>

[NicoRobin]

And here is the idea. Nobody target me or mastina tonight, cos I know someone has been protecting her from my tracker. If my results aren't tampered with in any way and I track her to a kill, then we'll know she is scum.

[NicoRobin]

This is how I know my results have been tampered with, ftr

You could always have done your whole rolecop thing and I'd have 100% given it you even though you're scum because I've already fullclaimed but w/e

Also lies. I received nothing in my inbox despite targeting you.

Oh you're claiming your action failed completely here?

Actually, it didn't. The mod was just late in giving me the info. :/

Then how come I haven't been sent anything?

Subtext, jj. I got rolecopped and gave consent.

I even subtly asked NR not to share her results with the thread, because there is some, if slight, utility in keeping the specifics of my role hidden from the thread at large. If/when I flip that should make more sense. The idea that rolecopping me was unintentional and she meant to rolecop you actually strengthens my townread there.

So whoever keeps doing that, don't. Protecting mastina every night is counterproductive and makes us easier to fool. I know that most of you townread her, but that's no excuse to actively prevent me from finding out the damn truth. >.>

[NicoRobin]

So whoever keeps doing that, don't. Protecting mastina every night is counterproductive and makes us easier to fool. I know that most of you townread her, but that's no excuse to actively prevent me from finding out the damn truth. >.>

"most" people townread her? Am I following the same thread here? Or am I in an alternate reality caused by a djinn or an angel from Supernatural?

If someone has been blocking her for some reason , which is affecting your track result, then why don't you just track someone else?

And what if someone else other than mastina has been doing the killing, have you considered that ? Then your track would just get "no movement."

-LH

We can find out one way or another if whoever is preventing my results from being accurate/checking the intended target stops doing so.

Also, let me get this straight: you will keep protecting mastina even if she is scum, am I right?

If so, then get your heads out of the sand.

[NicoRobin]

Fine. Then get endgamed by her, for all I care. I will just watch as you let her slip by so that when she endgames you, I'd get to say 'I told you so'.

Now go and destroy yourselves by sheer ignorance of all the possibility and your own 100% certainty that she is town.

[NicoRobin]

Getting through to you is futile anyway, as you'd rather let her endgame you than listen to someone who can tell you what happens when you 100% trust someone based on role alone.

[NicoRobin]

But sure, prove to me that role = alignment, and I might reconsider. Otherwise, I am right and you're not.

[NicoRobin]

So whoever keeps doing that, don't. Protecting mastina every night is counterproductive and makes us easier to fool. I know that most of you townread her, but that's no excuse to actively prevent me from finding out the damn truth. >.>

"most" people townread her? Am I following the same thread here? Or am I in an alternate reality caused by a djinn or an angel from Supernatural?

If someone has been blocking her for some reason , which is affecting your track result, then why don't you just track someone else?

And what if someone else other than mastina has been doing the killing, have you considered that ? Then your track would just get "no movement."

-LH

Also, let me get this straight: you will keep protecting mastina even if she is scum, am I right?
.

Sigh. Nico , since when are we townreading her, since when are we protecting her? You make me so outraged.
We want her lynched, we believe she's scum.

-LH

I am talking in a global sense. Global sense.

[NicoRobin]

But sure, prove to me that role = alignment, and I might reconsider. Otherwise, I am right and you're not.

Well, I mean in this case... If mastina is a loyal gladiator she is necessarily town. She successfully gladiated Chickadee and Chickadee was town. If she is loyal gladiator and not town, then she could not have successfully gladiated Chickadee.

The only doubt there is whether mastina is loyal or not, and I find it far more likely that she is than that she isn't.

In a broader sense, Innocent Child is necessarily town, or you should never ever let the person who ran the game design a setup again.

Then you get into situations where a role itself means that the person holding it has to be town or scum. These are almost universally bad roles, like Unlimited Non Dayending DayVig, which should never be put into a setup in the first place.



Here though, my town read on mastina is more referring to the fact that Varsoon used his role at EoD when it looked inevitable mastina would gladiate him and she was the only really viable counterwagon. He was clearly hoping to split the town vote and manage to swing the entire voting process by letting scum vote as a block, giving him another day alive and a chance to dissolve the suspicion on him, which backfired. Additionally, mastina has been checking all of the boxes I look for in town mastina and none of the boxes I look for in scum mastina.

And, of course, I still advocate lynching mastina at 5 clears, just to dissolve my own paranoia about the possible existence of that role. It's a claim that one way or another does not make it to LYLO.

And that's the problem. What if she is disloyal? You aren't even considering that possibility, which is bad play on your part imo, and something I find stupid.

But you do you, I guess. Just do me a favor. When she endgames you, you and everyone who falsely townread her will admit you were wrong and not try to absolve yourselves of the blame in any way, shape or form. There is no excuse for intentionally dooming the town by refusing to reconsider.

[NicoRobin]

Porkens and jjh.

[NicoRobin]

Can you not jk her for one night so I can get my actual results?

[NicoRobin]

By jailkeeping her, you are making it impossible for me to see whether or not she visited someone, because jailkeeping her cancels her visits, even if she did make some.

[NicoRobin]

And if there is a redirector, don't redirect me either. All you achieve by redirecting me is protecting a potential scum.

[NicoRobin]

If I had more jailkeeps id definitately not let your weird arguments (that make no sense whatsoever) influence my decisions NR.

A town redirector that is targetting you? What?

Mastina visiting someone that would make her appear scummy while youre announcing that you'll be tracking her? What?

Scum letting Mastina do the kill after its become apparent that I jailkept her twice in a row? What?

I really have no idea what youre expecting here, but the sense you're making can only be expressed in the number zero

What I see when I read those: 'We'll let mastina live till endgame even if it causes us to lose, because we can, hurr durr'.

[NicoRobin]

Mastina claimed a truly abuseable role.

A large portion of the player base is arguing to policy lynch mastina because she won’t just hipfire.

Creature claimed a guilty on mastina today. Porkens claimed a guilty on jjh. Both are probably fake claims contextually.

We had a modkill because RC couldn’t find a replacement last night.

Adalbert is functionally conftowned by mastina.

Yesterday, Vecna invited me to put varsoon as the top wagon and varsoon flipped out about how mastina’s role is broken and attempting to abuse it isn’t real mafia and scum never stood a chance. He then locked the thread and instigated an anonymous vote where he got lynched.

Currently, we’re waiting on wheme to tell us who he claims to have voted yesterday and RC to tell us if I need to be force replaced because I might have been compromised.

NR is a rolecop presumably who keeps saying she’s a tracker despite all evidence pointing otherwise and freaking out over the mastina slot.

Oh, also, we’ve been using an unlimited votes mechanic to speed up days because this game is an awful slog of inactivity. I’ll update the hurt count when I’m not mobile.

Yeah, RC gave me a misleading role. My role says rolecop but I am actually a tracker.

[NicoRobin]

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=10551775#p10551775]Yeah, RC gave me a misleading role. My role says rolecop but I am actually a tracker.

that's not how I heard it[/quote]

Didn't I just say my role is misleading? >.>

[NicoRobin]

Anyway, doesn't matter.

jjh927, what're your reads?

I went to bed before you asked this

Hmm reads indeed

NicoRobin is objectively scum and there is very little that is going to convince me otherwise besides Mastina succesfully gladiating her.

Creature and Ari would be where I'd find scum that aren't NR, and if Porkens makes it clear he's being serious about 'guiltying' me then he's obviously scum

but really my reads have mostly gone down the toilet because I really just don't get how we haven't lynched NR yet. Oh yeah, Mastina is 100% town, not just because of role now but also because of Varsoon self-destructing. Also, Jingle might as well be town now too

I used to think Firebringer was objectively town based on a ~thing~ but that's not necessarily there any more so who knows

So, you are still narrow minded. Did the possibility that Varsoon killed himself to give mastina some towncred occur to you, or are you busy fitting things into your narrative and are actively trying to avoid considering other possibilities?

[NicoRobin]

Finally someone with common sense, yeah.

[NicoRobin]

Guess it is true then. jjh, Jingle and mastina are the scumteam, as I suspected.

Also, @Firebringer People are not sheeping you, you are sheeping me. I suspected mastina long before you even joined, so don't take the credit for it. >.>

[NicoRobin]

You're positive Mastina is town? Why?

Varsoon interactions, play, role. In that order.

I'm ignoring the guilty for the moment because there is a very specific set of actions to take in this particular circumstance, and discussing why it is/isn't believable is in the not yet pile.

Then I ask the same question again: did the possibility he suicided to give her towncred cross your mind, or are you ignoring that possibility on purpose?

Same question @jjh

[NicoRobin]

You're positive Mastina is town? Why?

Varsoon interactions, play, role. In that order.

I'm ignoring the guilty for the moment because there is a very specific set of actions to take in this particular circumstance, and discussing why it is/isn't believable is in the not yet pile.

VOTE: Jingle

You don't ignore the guilty.

[NicoRobin]

You're positive Mastina is town? Why?

Varsoon interactions, play, role. In that order.

I'm ignoring the guilty for the moment because there is a very specific set of actions to take in this particular circumstance, and discussing why it is/isn't believable is in the not yet pile.

VOTE: Jingle

You don't ignore the guilty.

I explicitly do at this point. It's just correct play.

You ignore the guilty until the guiltied party responds to it, regardless of whether you believe in the validity of the guilty, because anything I say can be used by mastina to make her response more believable.

Commenting on it prematurely is basically the most antitown reaction to a guilty, second only to sheeping the guilty blindly without considering it's validity.

Now, if you want I can teach Hidden Information Games: 101 in the thread, or we can instead pretend we collectively have two braincells to rub together.

If there is a guilty, you sheep it, no questions asked. Not doing so just gives the guiltied party wiggle room to get out of the guilty.

[NicoRobin]

But then again, all you and jjh want to do is give mastina a surefire cop out. All these posts about 'evaluating' the guilty and there being 'secret abilities' are merely excuses to give her an out.

[NicoRobin]

You have two choices, either bus her or you'll be next if she flips scum.

[NicoRobin]

Oh, it was a inner joke because I'm nihilist IRL.

For the record, the former response is not game related in any way?

Hm. That potentially changes things. Not for the creature/mastina thing, but for the creature scumclaiming thing.

I advocate a rolecop on Creature if possible.

Considering that you refuse to even consider the possibility that mastina might be scum who is fakeclaiming, I will refuse to even consider your request.

[NicoRobin]

Kay, creature. What is mastina’s supposed flavor?

Tune in next time on "jjh understands other people's role pms better than they do"

Ebwop because I typoed the name of my own schtick

Please answer my own question.

And for the record, I am not scumreading those two because they're scumreading me. I am scumreading them because they are deadset on mastina being town and refuse to consider the possibility that she might not be.

[NicoRobin]

In my world, Mastina just got confirmed to be either loyal or disloyal and as such optimal play is to leash her until she dies

And she won't die imo. In my world, she is with scum, so scum wouldn't kill her. Therefore, unless you plan to lynch her, which you don't because she's your partner, she won't die.

[NicoRobin]

So if you plan for her to die, you'll have to bus her.

And now that I have said this, you'll kill her for towncred.

[NicoRobin]

Also, to everyone who townreads mastina: I want you to write that you will apologize in public for making us lose on purpose in your next post.

[NicoRobin]

If she flips scum, obviously.

[NicoRobin]

Put your money where your confidence is.

[NicoRobin]

If you have any in the first place.

[NicoRobin]

Your pushes have been the driving force. The two big ones I can remember are Firebringer and NR, both over things that have more to do with being bad than being scum.

Your push on NR boils down to she's being inconsistent and erratic with her role. You've done very little (if anything) to explain why that's more likely to be scum than derptown.
Your push on Firebringer is similar, in that it's very surface level. You're clearly aware of his push on mastina, but not enough to realize that it is in fact a policy lynch push. Something that should be immediately obvious to anyone actually trying to read his alignment.

Of course, both of those stances are correct, but you've done very little to show why they're scum because of them. NR IS being weird about her role. Fire IS tunneling mastina. But that's as far as you get. Additionally despite having those stances, you're far from the most vocal proponent of either case (JJH for Nico, Mastina for Fire), so you're unlikely to suffer much blowback should they flip town.

Also, mastina thinks you're scum, I haven't seen a single post by you that makes me feel the townvibes, and I have a fairly quickly dwindling PoE pool.

The thing that pushes NR and Firebringer from bad/annoyed town to scum for me. Within the spam of a few days we've seen a scum effectively suicide to try and kill her, one of the people she gladiated flipping town making her role soft-confirmed, and a role cop effectively confirm her role. And despite this, we've seen Nico ramp it up even more to what basically amounts to fearmongering, and Firebringer replace out (although I have a hunch that this is to do with Mastina's role, I think it was Shoshin's entrance that pushed him over the edge, so this isn't as solid, but that's why NR is my top scumread). I feel like by this point someone playing to a town wincon would stop, re-evaluate, and see if it was still worth it or not as opposed to just keep going with what they're currently doing it.

@NR what do you think of Creature's claim on Mastina's flavour?

Really? You scumread me for being unable to re-evaluate when jingle and jjh refuse to re-evaluate and consider the possibility she could be scum?

Because as much as you think she is town, no one is 100 % town, and yet Jingle and jjh treat her like she is 100% town based on flimsy evidence at best.

[NicoRobin]

Is there any specific aspect of their play or is there anything else in particular that makes this scum instead of bad? Do you have any reason to suspect that either of them specifically would be prone to reevaluating?

I haven't played with either of them so until I learn otherwise I expect them to be rational.

Your pushes have been the driving force. The two big ones I can remember are Firebringer and NR, both over things that have more to do with being bad than being scum.

Your push on NR boils down to she's being inconsistent and erratic with her role. You've done very little (if anything) to explain why that's more likely to be scum than derptown.
Your push on Firebringer is similar, in that it's very surface level. You're clearly aware of his push on mastina, but not enough to realize that it is in fact a policy lynch push. Something that should be immediately obvious to anyone actually trying to read his alignment.

Of course, both of those stances are correct, but you've done very little to show why they're scum because of them. NR IS being weird about her role. Fire IS tunneling mastina. But that's as far as you get. Additionally despite having those stances, you're far from the most vocal proponent of either case (JJH for Nico, Mastina for Fire), so you're unlikely to suffer much blowback should they flip town.

Also, mastina thinks you're scum, I haven't seen a single post by you that makes me feel the townvibes, and I have a fairly quickly dwindling PoE pool.

The thing that pushes NR and Firebringer from bad/annoyed town to scum for me. Within the spam of a few days we've seen a scum effectively suicide to try and kill her, one of the people she gladiated flipping town making her role soft-confirmed, and a role cop effectively confirm her role. And despite this, we've seen Nico ramp it up even more to what basically amounts to fearmongering, and Firebringer replace out (although I have a hunch that this is to do with Mastina's role, I think it was Shoshin's entrance that pushed him over the edge, so this isn't as solid, but that's why NR is my top scumread). I feel like by this point someone playing to a town wincon would stop, re-evaluate, and see if it was still worth it or not as opposed to just keep going with what they're currently doing it.

@NR what do you think of Creature's claim on Mastina's flavour?

Really? You scumread me for being unable to re-evaluate when jingle and jjh refuse to re-evaluate and consider the possibility she could be scum?

Because as much as you think she is town, no one is 100 % town, and yet Jingle and jjh treat her like she is 100% town based on flimsy evidence at best.

Because Jingle (possible JJH as well, but I specifically remember Jingle) actually

has

, and has mentioned it to you several times which you seem to have conveniently forgotten because you want people to vote her, not "consider the possibility". And I'd hardly call a cop claim that confirms her role to be one of Loyal or Disloyal (both of which produce clears and can and should be abused by the town considering the town as a whole, including Mastina, agrees that Mastina doesn't live to the endgame), one of her targets flipping town, and scum self-destructing just to try and kill her "flimsy evidence" at this point.

Now, once again: What do you think of Creature's claim on Mastina's flavour?

You townread both, and there is no evidence of jjh considering that possibility, so your whole point is bs.

[NicoRobin]

Is there any specific aspect of their play or is there anything else in particular that makes this scum instead of bad? Do you have any reason to suspect that either of them specifically would be prone to reevaluating?

I haven't played with either of them so until I learn otherwise I expect them to be rational.

Your pushes have been the driving force. The two big ones I can remember are Firebringer and NR, both over things that have more to do with being bad than being scum.

Your push on NR boils down to she's being inconsistent and erratic with her role. You've done very little (if anything) to explain why that's more likely to be scum than derptown.
Your push on Firebringer is similar, in that it's very surface level. You're clearly aware of his push on mastina, but not enough to realize that it is in fact a policy lynch push. Something that should be immediately obvious to anyone actually trying to read his alignment.

Of course, both of those stances are correct, but you've done very little to show why they're scum because of them. NR IS being weird about her role. Fire IS tunneling mastina. But that's as far as you get. Additionally despite having those stances, you're far from the most vocal proponent of either case (JJH for Nico, Mastina for Fire), so you're unlikely to suffer much blowback should they flip town.

Also, mastina thinks you're scum, I haven't seen a single post by you that makes me feel the townvibes, and I have a fairly quickly dwindling PoE pool.

The thing that pushes NR and Firebringer from bad/annoyed town to scum for me. Within the spam of a few days we've seen a scum effectively suicide to try and kill her, one of the people she gladiated flipping town making her role soft-confirmed, and a role cop effectively confirm her role. And despite this, we've seen Nico ramp it up even more to what basically amounts to fearmongering, and Firebringer replace out (although I have a hunch that this is to do with Mastina's role, I think it was Shoshin's entrance that pushed him over the edge, so this isn't as solid, but that's why NR is my top scumread). I feel like by this point someone playing to a town wincon would stop, re-evaluate, and see if it was still worth it or not as opposed to just keep going with what they're currently doing it.

@NR what do you think of Creature's claim on Mastina's flavour?

Really? You scumread me for being unable to re-evaluate when jingle and jjh refuse to re-evaluate and consider the possibility she could be scum?

Because as much as you think she is town, no one is 100 % town, and yet Jingle and jjh treat her like she is 100% town based on flimsy evidence at best.

Because Jingle (possible JJH as well, but I specifically remember Jingle) actually

has

, and has mentioned it to you several times which you seem to have conveniently forgotten because you want people to vote her, not "consider the possibility". And I'd hardly call a cop claim that confirms her role to be one of Loyal or Disloyal (both of which produce clears and can and should be abused by the town considering the town as a whole, including Mastina, agrees that Mastina doesn't live to the endgame), one of her targets flipping town, and scum self-destructing just to try and kill her "flimsy evidence" at this point.

Now, once again: What do you think of Creature's claim on Mastina's flavour?

And furthermore, when exactly do you plan to lynch her? You say you won't let her live until the endgame, but your actions say otherwise.

[NicoRobin]

No. You either lynch her now, or she'll talk her way out of it when/if you do decide she needs to go. Trust me on this.

[NicoRobin]

Okay, so, would you really want me as conftown?

Furthermore, if we're both town and she is disloyal, then the gladiate won't work. She might also refuse to do it.

How about those?

[NicoRobin]

No. You either lynch her now, or she'll talk her way out of it when/if you do decide she needs to go. Trust me on this.

No, she's already admitted as early as day 1 that she knew she wouldn't survive to the endgame with this role, and that it had to happen to confirm her targets. You're blatantly fearmongering because you know her role is insane if it's town, and you aren't town.

What do you think of Creature's cop claim on Mastina? I should not have to have asked this five times in five posts you've directly quoted.

Even if I thought something, there is no way any of you would see reason and just lynch her before she can get into your heads.

Oh, and FYI, I explicitly said she could be town, I just don't think she is. However, there is one scenario in which she can proven town. If she gladiates me and fails, then she is disloyal town, because I know I am town.

[NicoRobin]

Okay, so, would you really want me as conftown?

Furthermore, if we're both town and she is disloyal, then the gladiate won't work. She might also refuse to do it.

How about those?

jfc you just scumclaimed twice in one post

In which way?

[NicoRobin]

FB or NR gkadiate is in order. preferably fb so we can just destroy the slot and require a replacement less.

Or, y'know, scum can jist concede instead of mass replace out.

Speaking of which, you jked mastina on the night there was no NK, which should be enough proof that she is scum.

[NicoRobin]

You basically said:

"Don't gladiate me, but if you do, then don't be surprised if it doesn't work"

And how exactly do you think I am even capable of stopping a gladiate on me? I am modified tracker triple-voter. I can't stop it.

The only way that gladiate on me can be stopped is if mastina refuses to gladiate, which would prove she is scum beyond a doubt.

[NicoRobin]

yeah, you know, or proof that scum tried to kill her and failed.....resulting in the realization they have to lynch her to get rid of her.

So what makes that possibility more likely? If you haven't noticed, I am the only one who wants to get her lynched, because I know what she is capable of when/if she is scum. No one else is trying to lynch her, at least not as vocally.

[NicoRobin]

just a generic question for due dilligence for those who have played with a scum mastina before. is she even remotely capable of coming up with plans like the varsoon charade to make her look super good, and then have a scum creature pretend to have this role and make this claim in the way he did?

itd require sich creative thinking.....but that is pretty much what some people must be tjinking.....

yes. Like sure, I guess OR says that Varsoon throws a hissy fit and thus Mastina is town but a planned bus on Varsoon isn't out of the question for me.

This too.

Inb4 people say that NC and I are evil masterminds working together to try and lynch her.

[NicoRobin]

What makes all of you think think that Varsoon is incapable of bussing?

[NicoRobin]

Or sacrificing himself so mastina would gain towncred, for that matter?

[NicoRobin]

You basically said:

"Don't gladiate me, but if you do, then don't be surprised if it doesn't work"

And how exactly do you think I am even capable of stopping a gladiate on me? I am modified tracker triple-voter. I can't stop it.

The only way that gladiate on me can be stopped is if mastina refuses to gladiate, which would prove she is scum beyond a doubt.

Don’t play dumb. He means it’d fail because you are scum. Your own role would have no effect.

Except that I am not scum.

[NicoRobin]

Sure. I am tired of all of this anyway.

Just be sure to apologize to me, in public, once mastina flips scum and we'll be kosher.

[NicoRobin]

Here is the idea: how about instead of apologizing, you join Korina's game? I really want it to fill......

[NicoRobin]

HURT: NicoRobin, Firebringer, Invisibility

Mastina's role is basically confirmed at this point, so I'm pretty willing to go on with her plan, although I'm very adamant about lynching/gladiating Nico, meta or not. In fact, the only other game I've played with Nico, she replaced herself out day 1 for being (correctly) read as scum for something she considers her town trait, so she's at least somewhat capable of meta manipulation. I don't expect Mastina to do it, but we can still lynch and force her to gladiate someone or let Nico be lynched, so I'm keeping my vote there.

Killing inactives to keep the game alive is fine by me, too.

Are you willing to apologize to me in this thread when she flips scum?

[NicoRobin]

Also, for someone who thinks mastina is town, you sure don't put much stock in her reads either, despite the fact she is better at reading people than most of us, as either alignment.

[NicoRobin]

Also, for someone who thinks mastina is town, you sure don't put much stock in her reads either, despite the fact she is better at reading people than most of us, as either alignment.

You

just

quoted a post where I said I was willing to trust Mastina's plan, which also includes trusting her reads.

You don't. You still scumread me, despite the fact that she townreads me.

[NicoRobin]

Also, for someone who thinks mastina is town, you sure don't put much stock in her reads either, despite the fact she is better at reading people than most of us, as either alignment.

You

just

quoted a post where I said I was willing to trust Mastina's plan, which also includes trusting her reads.

You don't. You still scumread me, despite the fact that she townreads me.

There's a difference between trusting someone's reads and outright sheeping? Nobody in this game has the exact same reads as another player, I'm pretty sure, and that's generally how the game of mafia works. If we all just followed one player without discussion and that player isn't 100% accurate, then we're screwed. Good, well-thought out and well-argued discussion (which, incidentally, I don't think I'm that good at and am mostly playing to improve upon) and differing opinions are important to the game as town.

Of course, you're only twisting it this way because you want to get suspicion off you and onto me or you want me to say you're town and lay off, which comes from a completely different motive entirely.

Read Steven Universe 2, a game where different opinions caused us to lose, and the reason I think sheeeping is better. Read what happened at in the end of that game, and then come here and tell me sheeping shouldn't be done.

[NicoRobin]

Also, for someone who thinks mastina is town, you sure don't put much stock in her reads either, despite the fact she is better at reading people than most of us, as either alignment.

You

just

quoted a post where I said I was willing to trust Mastina's plan, which also includes trusting her reads.

You don't. You still scumread me, despite the fact that she townreads me.

There's a difference between trusting someone's reads and outright sheeping? Nobody in this game has the exact same reads as another player, I'm pretty sure, and that's generally how the game of mafia works. If we all just followed one player without discussion and that player isn't 100% accurate, then we're screwed. Good, well-thought out and well-argued discussion (which, incidentally, I don't think I'm that good at and am mostly playing to improve upon) and differing opinions are important to the game as town.

Of course, you're only twisting it this way because you want to get suspicion off you and onto me or you want me to say you're town and lay off, which comes from a completely different motive entirely.

Read Steven Universe 2, a game where different opinions caused us to lose, and the reason I think sheeeping is better. Read what happened at in the end of that game, and then come here and tell me sheeping shouldn't be done.

1) Who are you sheeping in this game, then?

2) Why do you want me to sheep the person who you've been calling scum for the past two days, outside of the fact that she isn't voting for you?

1. Firebringer, apparently, although it's actually the other way around.
2. To prove a point that you would rather see her endgame the town than lynch her. :c

[NicoRobin]

Also, for someone who thinks mastina is town, you sure don't put much stock in her reads either, despite the fact she is better at reading people than most of us, as either alignment.

You

just

quoted a post where I said I was willing to trust Mastina's plan, which also includes trusting her reads.

You don't. You still scumread me, despite the fact that she townreads me.

There's a difference between trusting someone's reads and outright sheeping? Nobody in this game has the exact same reads as another player, I'm pretty sure, and that's generally how the game of mafia works. If we all just followed one player without discussion and that player isn't 100% accurate, then we're screwed. Good, well-thought out and well-argued discussion (which, incidentally, I don't think I'm that good at and am mostly playing to improve upon) and differing opinions are important to the game as town.

Of course, you're only twisting it this way because you want to get suspicion off you and onto me or you want me to say you're town and lay off, which comes from a completely different motive entirely.

Read Steven Universe 2, a game where different opinions caused us to lose, and the reason I think sheeeping is better. Read what happened at in the end of that game, and then come here and tell me sheeping shouldn't be done.

1) Who are you sheeping in this game, then?

2) Why do you want me to sheep the person who you've been calling scum for the past two days, outside of the fact that she isn't voting for you?

1. Firebringer, apparently, although it's actually the other way around.
2. To prove a point that you would rather see her endgame the town than lynch her. :c

1. Funny, your only interactions with Firebringer in either of your two ISOs are you two arguing over wether or not you can play well, right down to you trying to "vote him out of the game for your own sanity". Firebringer has mentioned you three times. If you think he's sheeping you because he also wants to kill Mastina then I really don't know what to say.

2 is so hilariously, transparently anti-town that I'm not even going to bother.

He stole the credit for something I started long before he was even in this game, and I am not gonna let him get away with that.

Also, anti-town doesn't always mean scum. Again, read Steven Universe 2. Majority of people - myself included - scumread farside, who ended up being town. mastina was also there, and she can tell you more about that.

[NicoRobin]

lol stole credit

Yes you did. You act like you started scumreading mastina first when I scumread her long before you did.

[NicoRobin]

I am enjoying the game too.

[NicoRobin]

Tfw NicoRobin invented scumreading Mastina and is now suing Firebringer for patent infringement

And yes.

[NicoRobin]

You will all be sued for copyright infringement.

[NicoRobin]

I need to either know that I am right so I can shit on people's reads or reevaluate

What a joke. You aren't willing to re-evaluate because you think you are 100 % right.

[NicoRobin]

If mastina flips scum, I am gonna have so much fun at the expense of jjh 'can figure out people's roles and read others better than anyone else' but who, in actuality, can't be bothered to see things in any other way but his own.

[NicoRobin]

Like, just because you caught me one time doesn't mean you are infallible all of the sudden. That title belongs to mastina, who can be a brilliant strategist as town, but can screw us over if scum. It's better to get rid of her than letting her win in case she is scum, and most of you seem to think that letting her win is just fine, which is wrong. As a certain book character would say 'Thinking otherwise would simply be.....irrational."

[NicoRobin]

Well yeah I'm not gonna reevaluate shit unless I'm shown to be wrong

Then live up to your words. You aren't magically going to be shown wrong unless you lynch mastina, just as mastina won't magically lynch herself.

And for the record, she won't gladiate me either, because that would prove she is scum beyond a doubt.

So if you wanna be proven wrong, either lynch her or lynch me already. Making mastina gladiate me isn't going to do shit other than her refusing to do so.

Furthermore, there are tons of people who would be far more useful than me as conftown.

@Jingle Do you really want a blubbering idiot who can't tell her right hand from her left as a conftown, eh? Especially since Vecna and many others agree that I am irrational and not making any sense.....

[NicoRobin]

VOTE: Fire
HURT: Fire

[NicoRobin]

^Scum

[NicoRobin]

If you weren't, you'd have answered mastina's posts.

[NicoRobin]

What about my earlier posts? You haven't answered those either?

[NicoRobin]

These?

I need to either know that I am right so I can shit on people's reads or reevaluate

What a joke. You aren't willing to re-evaluate because you think you are 100 % right.

If mastina flips scum, I am gonna have so much fun at the expense of jjh 'can figure out people's roles and read others better than anyone else' but who, in actuality, can't be bothered to see things in any other way but his own.

Like, just because you caught me one time doesn't mean you are infallible all of the sudden. That title belongs to mastina, who can be a brilliant strategist as town, but can screw us over if scum. It's better to get rid of her than letting her win in case she is scum, and most of you seem to think that letting her win is just fine, which is wrong. As a certain book character would say 'Thinking otherwise would simply be.....irrational."

Well yeah I'm not gonna reevaluate shit unless I'm shown to be wrong

Then live up to your words. You aren't magically going to be shown wrong unless you lynch mastina, just as mastina won't magically lynch herself.

And for the record, she won't gladiate me either, because that would prove she is scum beyond a doubt.

So if you wanna be proven wrong, either lynch her or lynch me already. Making mastina gladiate me isn't going to do shit other than her refusing to do so.

Furthermore, there are tons of people who would be far more useful than me as conftown.

@Jingle Do you really want a blubbering idiot who can't tell her right hand from her left as a conftown, eh? Especially since Vecna and many others agree that I am irrational and not making any sense.....

[NicoRobin]

And thanks for proving my point that you treat whatever doesn't suit your little itsy-bitsy agenda as 'shit'. How is your tinfoil treating you?

[NicoRobin]

But it is shit- all of it.


I'm only gonna reevaluate if I'm proven wrong because I agree, I am very confident I am right here. Barring a valid reason to reevaluate, I will not.

Your second quote looks like more from scum!you

Mastina is town and I'm not going to lynch her. Your reasoning here seems to be "hurrdurr paranoia" and I am a man of logic

I don't expect to be shown to be wrong, but I accept that it is a possibility of what will occur if mastina gladiates you. Thank you for flagging this post again, however, as I seem to have missed that you think her gladiating you would confirm her as scum. How?

And I will ask again: how exactly will you be 'proven wrong'? Because your method - the gladiate - won't work the way you'd want it to.

[NicoRobin]

But it is shit- all of it.


I'm only gonna reevaluate if I'm proven wrong because I agree, I am very confident I am right here. Barring a valid reason to reevaluate, I will not.

Your second quote looks like more from scum!you

Mastina is town and I'm not going to lynch her. Your reasoning here seems to be "hurrdurr paranoia" and I am a man of logic

I don't expect to be shown to be wrong, but I accept that it is a possibility of what will occur if mastina gladiates you. Thank you for flagging this post again, however, as I seem to have missed that you think her gladiating you would confirm her as scum. How?

And thanks for proving you didn't read at all. I didn't say her gladiating me would confirm her as scum, I said that her REFUSING to do so - which will happen - would.

[NicoRobin]

jjh if you ignore nicorobin long enough she will go away.

Not happening, because he is my main scumread.

[NicoRobin]

Do note that you have argued that she would be scum for gladiating you and also that she would be scum for refusing to gladiate you

No, I only argued that she would be scum for refusing to gladiate me.

Come think of it, you only included two options: she either succeeds or fails.

But there is a third possibility: she doesn't gladiate me at all. What happens with your analysis if this option were to occur?

[NicoRobin]

Because for someone who claims to know everything, you are way too quick to discard some possibilities if they don't fit in with your views.

I propose this: ignore my existence for a day or two (irl) and focus on finding my partners, which should be easy, given how clever you deem yourself to be and how adamant you are that I am scum. If you can find them and if I am unable to counter your arguments on a decent level, then you can lynch me. I'll even sheep you. How about that, jjh? If you are that sure of yourself, then you will seize this opportunity for a free lynch on me.

[NicoRobin]

Because for someone who claims to know everything, you are way too quick to discard some possibilities if they don't fit in with your views.

I propose this: ignore my existence for a day or two (irl) and focus on finding my partners, which should be easy, given how clever you deem yourself to be and how adamant you are that I am scum. If you can find them and if I am unable to counter your arguments on a decent level, then you can lynch me. I'll even sheep you. How about that, jjh? If you are that sure of yourself, then you will seize this opportunity for a free lynch on me.

I agree I'm quick to discard possibilities but I tend to have good reasoning and accuracy for it. For the more important things relying on lots of assumptions I do recognise that they were reasoned on assumptions and so could well be wrong, however an individual such assumption is often negligible.

Your alignment being confirmed one way or the other would help greatly in me finding scum regardless of what you actually turn out to be. I do not intend to let you hang about. If I ignore you, you will still be there at the endgane whether or not you are scum, because scum would never nightkill you. If you get confscummed you will be lynched. If you get conftowned you will actually be useful as a rolecop, and furthermore might not make it to the endgame because scum need to kill off conftowns. You are not offering a "free lynch" on yourself. This is bartering. I don't make deals with mafia

So what you are saying is that you are willing to lose the game just so you can lynch me. Good to know.

[NicoRobin]

Because for someone who claims to know everything, you are way too quick to discard some possibilities if they don't fit in with your views.

I propose this: ignore my existence for a day or two (irl) and focus on finding my partners, which should be easy, given how clever you deem yourself to be and how adamant you are that I am scum. If you can find them and if I am unable to counter your arguments on a decent level, then you can lynch me. I'll even sheep you. How about that, jjh? If you are that sure of yourself, then you will seize this opportunity for a free lynch on me.

I agree I'm quick to discard possibilities but I tend to have good reasoning and accuracy for it. For the more important things relying on lots of assumptions I do recognise that they were reasoned on assumptions and so could well be wrong, however an individual such assumption is often negligible.

Your alignment being confirmed one way or the other would help greatly in me finding scum regardless of what you actually turn out to be. I do not intend to let you hang about. If I ignore you, you will still be there at the endgane whether or not you are scum, because scum would never nightkill you. If you get confscummed you will be lynched. If you get conftowned you will actually be useful as a rolecop, and furthermore might not make it to the endgame because scum need to kill off conftowns. You are not offering a "free lynch" on yourself. This is bartering. I don't make deals with mafia

That still doesn't explain what happens to your little theory if she refuses to gladiate me/chooses to gladiate someone else......

You are still ignoring that part......

[NicoRobin]

I should really stop because you're saying the same misrepresentative bullshit in response to the answers to that bullshit

No, you never gave the real answer to that question. You kept yapping about how she will confirm my alignment one way or another, but never outright said what if she doesn't.

[NicoRobin]

But whatever. I can't make you see reason, so enjoy getting endgamed by mastina, I guess.

[NicoRobin]

Bottom line: jjh is either so stupidly confident it would cost him the game or he is scum with mastina, trying to protect his buddy till the bitter end, while said partner is buddying me.

And since jjh won't answer me, maybe some of you more reasonable folks could. What would happen if mastina refuses to gladiate me/gladiates someone else?

[NicoRobin]

And then when I least expect it, mastina would turn around and lynch me. Mastina and jjh think they are playing me like a fiddle and are relying on my reputation to hang that noose around my neck.

But I shall not let them. Me from 1936 and New Year's Upick is back, and I shall expose them, or at least one of them, as the scum that they are.

[NicoRobin]

Do note that you have argued that she would be scum for gladiating you and also that she would be scum for refusing to gladiate you

1. Yes, she would be scum for gladiating me because it would prove that she lied about her role
2. She would refuse to gladiate me because she fears the possibility of #1 happening.

So, let me ask you everyone: in what universe is town jjh willing to protect mastina at all costs, even if that would mean the loss of his faction?

[NicoRobin]

VOTE: mastina

This time, I will get her lynched whether you agree with me or not.

[NicoRobin]

Why not Fire?

Because her ability only works on town.

[NicoRobin]

You are both dumb as heck.

[NicoRobin]

Good luck. With an attitude like that, you are sure to get endgamed, mark my words.

I'll have words for you at the endgame, and I am looking forward to that.

[NicoRobin]

Also, I noticed something upon re-reading the game.

Vecna claims his jailkeep caused the no-kill. jjh claims his BP did. I think one of them is lying, and jjh is more likely to be that person.

[NicoRobin]

Why does it have to be a lie? Why can’t it be two people with conflicting theories?

Experience says it cannot be so.

[NicoRobin]

I'm holding out for someone to become suddenly sane but you're all kinda bloodlusted here

If you are town, then you are the one who is insane. You are practically fine with letting a possible scum live all the way to endgame because of your stupid confidence, and don't you try to deny it

[NicoRobin]

EVERYONE IS A POSSIBLE SCUM

So you admit that you could be scum as well, eh?

[NicoRobin]

I've had enough of this debate. I wanna see which one of us is right: me or jjh.

So do it.

[NicoRobin]

Reads are all there fucking is and I TR Mastina for a ton of reasons

I am confident Mastina is town and as such lynching other people is how we win the game

Well, then, let him hammer, then we'll see who is right, you or me.

[NicoRobin]

It's as simple as that. You are worried that your buddy would be lynched, which is why you are defending her so staunchly.

I wonder what you'll do if she flips scum? Throw a fit? Try to justify your overconfidence with excuses?

[NicoRobin]

It's just maddening

Not lynching Mastina is still the optimal play even if she's being trash with using her role

You heard him

"Not lynching mastina is the optimal play, so we're not lynching her, period. Instead, we'll give her the free win because I am 100% sure she is town." - jjh 2k18

[NicoRobin]

Don't listen to him. His reasoning makes no sense.

Just hammer.

[NicoRobin]

Is there any chance of lynching NR tomorrow or am I going to go insane

Lol, u desperate.

[NicoRobin]

Do you have something against her

Not me. I think she is great player. Which us exactly I think she is the biggest threat if scum.

Preventing the disaster is always better than letting it continue.

[NicoRobin]

Will you still be frustrated if she flips scum?

If you are town, you should be happy there is one less scum and you are closer to achieving your wincon.

The only reason not to be happy is if you and her are scum together.

[NicoRobin]

So......

@JJH @Jingle Your 'analysis' was wrong after all, and that means you were either so damn stupid or you're both scum with mastina and Porkens. I am your Judge, Jury and Executioner. What do you have to say for yourselves?

[NicoRobin]

So we are killing all of Vecna, Jingle, JJH and NSG right?

Replace Vecna with Porkens, and sure.

[NicoRobin]

If anyone who isn't conftown got targeted by the loud doc they should probably claim.

NR should definitely target Meme Men ASAP, because they're not conftown, but if their role is Autowin gladiates the odds drastically increase.

I suggest no one else allow her to know their role.

I wasn't targeted by a loud doc per se, but by a loud babysitter. Thought I'd get that out of the way.

[NicoRobin]

Also, you are a liar. You said you would apologize to me in public if she flipped scum. Where is that apology, Jingle?

[NicoRobin]

Nico, what are your other reads today?

-rh

I made those clear.

[NicoRobin]

Yes, I townread those three.

[NicoRobin]

Do you feel like the argument that your attitude toward mastina over the course of this game feels a bit like tmi is an argument that has merit?

-rh

The main crux of my argument, that people shouldn't read people as town on role alone, which was the crux of my argument, does have merit. And yes, people are stupid for townreading her on role alone. Maybe they'll learn from this experience.

[NicoRobin]

Thanks Gamma!

@Nico, this may sound like a strange question, but this is a theory I entertained at the start of replacing into this game and right now I would like to ask directly. Is there any chance you are third party? If you were survivor, or something to that effect, would you tell the town?

-rh

Yes, I would.

[NicoRobin]

In what way? The rolecop vs tracker/watcher nonsense you mean?

yeah. RC specifically told me that my role would be revealed, not my action.

Let. Me. Write. This. In. A. Way. You. Can. Understand.

I. Have. A. Misleading. Role.

Why. Do. You. Think. You. Can. Understand. My. Own. Role. Better. Than. I. Can. ?

[NicoRobin]

I think I can understand your role better than you can because that's my whole thing and you admitted you misunderstood it multiple times

That's nice, but I was asking Porkens.

[NicoRobin]

Firthermore, you made a mistake scumreading mastina yesterday and you still think you are a special little snowflake who knows better than anyone else even after that. I dislike selfish people like you, who only care about making themselves look good and don't give a damn about their own win condition.

I am willing to bet than when you lose because of your own ego, you are gonna be like 'At least I had NR lynched, so I consider this a win'.

Because if you are town, this is exactly how I see you as.

[NicoRobin]

Firthermore, you made a mistake scumreading mastina yesterday

???

Typo.

[NicoRobin]

VOTE: NicoRobin

If she and NSG aren't aligned with each other, then I don't see any reason to keep her around. Worst case scenario is this flips town and we lynch NSG tomorrow anyways, but if there's garaunteed 1 scum in these two slots then we might as well get started with the scummier one.

I guess one of them could also be indie but I feel like if they were town-friendly indies they would've claimed it by now.

So why is jjh town exactly? For defending scum to the death? Because either he is scum or he is a self-centered idiot, and in both cases he needs to die before he dooms us.

[NicoRobin]

VOTE: NicoRobin

If she and NSG aren't aligned with each other, then I don't see any reason to keep her around. Worst case scenario is this flips town and we lynch NSG tomorrow anyways, but if there's garaunteed 1 scum in these two slots then we might as well get started with the scummier one.

I guess one of them could also be indie but I feel like if they were town-friendly indies they would've claimed it by now.

So why is jjh town exactly? For defending scum to the death? Because either he is scum or he is a self-centered idiot who refuses to learn from his mistakes, and in both cases he needs to die before he dooms us.

EBWOP

[NicoRobin]

And you, you too were all like 'fearmongering, fearmongering'. Where is my fearmongering now, huh? Where is it?