I haven't gotten enough scum vibes from the player list in terms of those who have been active so far which is what is somewhat concerning me currently. On the other hand, there are some slots that I haven't gotten much of an impression of such as whoever Saudade's replacement is or Not_Mafia. Mostly my hesitance to vote somewhere like that is that it doesn't make much sense to vote a slot in scrutiny before seeing what the replacement has to offer as a player, and also I don't want to jump on the idea of wagoning players that might just not be deserving of a wagon with intent to lynch and not just to pressure which sometimes becomes intertwined to the point where people don't know why they're voting someone or the actual reason why just isn't reality. This is probably most pertinent for Performer and Xtoxm.
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In post 1019, Nauci wrote:Mew deviated from hivemind by explicitly throwing me in a town bucket but without providing any specifics as to why
Mew, can you list at least a couple of concrete and specific reasons for town reading everyone in that list? And explain why irrelephant isn't when you believe his claim?
Also, do you have any scum reads? Or analysis of the xtoxm or performer wagons forming?
I think it makes sense to distinguish between strong town reading someone by play or for any other compelling reason from reasons to town read someone based off of claim and flavour space that I personally have little knowledge of.
In terms of talk of wagons, I think the wagon on Performer from what I followed came from an intrinsic dislike for their style of posting, so I'm avoiding buying into that, and I think the correction of their play after Keyser's analysis of his town "meta", while overdefensive, comes from town more often than scum because it gives us pointers to refer back to see if his play is matching up to his town play or not. As far as what Xtoxm has specifically done, I've so far avoided commentary there to avoid biasing their response to my question, but I think it's fairly obvious they've ignored me at this point. I think that from somebody willing to refer to themselves as honest (which I am willing to buy into if they give me enough reason to) they would have some sort of thought process behind the spreading of town reads, associated specifically with Shoshin, with the entire player list, other players or a combination of all three. So Xtoxm wrt dissing people for giving out town reads but not explaining where the point of disagreeance comes from in specific town reads but just generally "throwing" around town reads that, as someone trying to own being "honest" (
946) is concerning.
Also, towards the idea that I didn't include Irrelephant11 in my town group, it's fairly clear where my thoughts are on him right now wrt him being more townish than not, and I don't feel like I need to reiterate that my reads are changing and being reassessed with as I'm taking new things in. If I reiterated the town group at the end of the post in question, Irrelephant11 would definitely be in it.
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In post 1017, Irrelephant11 wrote: In post 1013, the worst wrote:That's a pretty fair summary tbh, the real time interactions + proactive approach to Shoshin is what kinda feels the towniest outta Varsoon for me as well
I think I wanna talk to you about more stuff when I'm more sober tbh but like, I'm glad you caught up and I get the feeling you actually did read the entire thread which is a good vibe
At first I was like “yeah fair summary for sure”
And then I reread and realized meetaph’s post says nothing
Now how do you feel about it
I can see how if you feel my posts are saying nothing and are more aimed to making myself look good, that that may ping you as scum, but I'll probably become more "real" when interacting with other players rather than recapping my thoughts on events that most of the playerlist experienced in or near its occurence being able to react and interact with it.
Wrt Nauci's request, I think following up on my strongest town reads in an attempt to prove myself as less "hollow" or more "real" makes little sense in the regard that it's a 15 player game in that I am fine with opening with town reads on the players I've mentioned based on what I've read of them so far and some background knowledge of some of them, but am uninterested in delving deeper into the why when I haven't been offered the chance to interact with these players first hand (and hence reassess how valid these reads based on vibes I've gotten via reading the thread in seamless chunks versus vibes I'm getting real time, taking into account gaps in posting, feeling on who's pushing what and to what extent, etc).
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In post 1041, skitter30 wrote: In post 1009, Mewtaph wrote:Trying to think about how scum would approach the Varsoon v Shoshin as TvT keeping in mind how it went down and I'm inclined to think that scum would simply not post or skirt around engaging with it wholly to allow the possibility of paranoia to foster between those two players, leaving it as an option to easily push on later.
this feels like you're calling a {vague unidentified} group of people scummy for behaving in a given way without actually narrowing donw on who's scum because of it, or who individually is scummy
Do you disagree with my thought that scum
wouldn't
leave paranoia to foster between those two players? Because the way I'm using it is not to shade everyone in the playerlist other than Irrelephant11 and people that voted for Shoshin after the interaction but to justify my thought process behind town reading someone based on their approach to Varsoon vs Shoshin. The problem is, wrt people not posting about it, that was actually a lot of people posting at the time, so I guess a better question to have asked would be: "Would Irrelephant11 approach a Varsoon vs Shoshin TvT in this way?" and by asking this question I'm coming up with no. I think you going for the comment about my predecessor is really disingenous on basis that the nature of teacher's replace out could come from both town or scum and is more associated wrt "opening the slot up for people that are waiting and willing to play". I think you know this too which is why I'm confused you're pushing me for it (and it's an argument I personally can't tackle directly at all, as teacher cannot post for himself anymore).
In post 1041, skitter30 wrote: In post 1012, Mewtaph wrote:I think Nauci has contributed to the thread positively overall and have felt townie enough to deserve a town read. I think it could just be a case of that Nauci has been doing townie things but they're just being missed? I think there would have to be a big reason for her being scum for me to consider her as a contender for being scum at the moment and I don't think that really exists atm.
this doesn't actually mean anything?
like idk what townie things *in particular* do you think has been missed?
like you're describing a nullread to me; i'm not sure why anything you said here is a reason to townread her particulalry?
Our point of disagreeance may be coming from that I think Nauci should be town read for what she has done as a holistic slot, while other players have displayed a hesitance to buy into that read. So if we're talking about how it might seem more like a null read because of how many conditionals I seem to be putting on it, eg. "at the moment", "does a reason to scumread them exist", that is more of a question to players null/scum/cautious reading them (as I was responding to the worst, who expressed caution in reading Nauci), not wrt the strength of the read. I'm not going to say Nauci is untouchably town, but they're just like slightly below that and I want to personally be moving forward noting them as town then reassessing where I'm actually at with it in the future.
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In post 1047, Shoshin wrote: In post 1009, Mewtaph wrote:I disagree with Performer's post where he votes Shoshin, but I think that his phrasing in that post among others indicates that it's more likely to come from town than scum (but this is a weak thought and I'm not willing to go in on a town read of this nature).
What part of his phrasing are you referring to here? And why more likely town than scum?
There's something about the comment about thinking you were setting up mislynches, which kind of makes me think that translates to Performer being town based on how it's a similar town thought I've seen before in response to influential players. I'm going to have trouble articulating that in a way that doesn't seem baseless or difficult to parse to other players especially considering he's a universal negative read, so it's something I will have to just going to tail mostly in observation rather than direct interaction to figure out if it gets stronger or not. From the posts I've seen from him since my first post in the thread, the read has gotten stronger so far specifically for his bit on skitter in
1248 and their response to N_M's vote in
1257. I'm thinking that if Performer is town there will probably come a development where I am really confident on him being town and if he's scum then it won't come and things will just start to feel off and irky (this hasn't happened yet). The more Performer posts, the easier I think it will be for me to read him.
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In post 1040, Xtoxm wrote:I was somewhat underwhelmed by mewtaph basically calling all of the "loltwonblock" town and nothing else in his catch up post
@Xtoxm: Taking your recent acknowledgement of many of your townreads townreading Shoshin, where would you say you are at with regards to Varsoon v Shoshin being a TvT?
