Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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...idk? I don't like that kind of read anyway (it's angleshooty and stupid) so I mostly ignored it. I just like the concept of retaining a level of holism wrt gamestate & how myself and others are viewing the game so I didn't think it was AI either but like I don't pay enough attention to know if I do it more as one alignment or the otherIn post 1236, Michael Scott wrote:And @The Worst, what are your thoughts on Pinturicchio incorrectly applying this as a “towntell” for your slot?-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Were kinda baffled by it. It gave brief towny daft flail energy the same way his pushback on the worst did in SCM1 (don't think it says anything about your alignment since he's half assing--just maybe his). that said it's a pretty easy lazy read to have as scum and I'm not sure it's something that doesn't occur to Kokichi naturally. I kinda feel like there should be some way I want to read this but I'm not really reading it strongly.In post 1239, Almost Chara wrote:
how are you reading Kokichi for this?In post 1186, Shoshin the worst wrote:Regardless I feel like Chara has 50 times the clout you do in this list... If you think it's scum and wanna do something about it let's see whatcha got
~Chara
Do you have a spicier take?-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Mewt or Nico are fine lynches right now as far as I can tell. They aren't the only people I scumread/don't townread but they're the slots I feel better about lynching.
NR flipping red would actually be fairly interesting given the way some slots have orbited around her today.
Mewt feels like a wolf.
We still have a couple of days right? No one be a flake please.-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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So you've got one obvtown in your lynches, us, and a two townreads.In post 1257, Mewtaph wrote:Lynch pool for being scummy: {Alchemist21, Almost Chara, Shoshin the worst}
Up for policy lynch: {Nancy}
Steamrolling with the biggest wagon that forms on any of these three + Nancy.
Why.... aren't you more disturbed by this gamestate given this apparently means ALL of your townreads are in the communal lynchpool? you naked voted us then quoted our vote on you saying "die.". I don't buy that you think we're wolfing for a second.-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Why do either of these things actually come from scum tho?In post 1260, Mewtaph wrote:
There is. That's his first game-advancing content and 297 completely misinterprets the second half of my question. His "I'm not redoubling on the mistakes I messed up" reads as AtE. I wouldn't buy it if I were you.In post 1125, u r a person 2 wrote:I don't see any disconnect between 204 and 297
This is tinfoil at best. Straight up.-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Nobody's an obstacle and nobody is compromising your agency here. You haven't said anything that makes Alchemist sound even remotely like scum. Case at will.In post 1261, Mewtaph wrote:
It's how scum would respond from beginning to end. Me trying to push Alchemist through here requires thread presence I don't have - Nancy is acting as a huge obstacle to me pushing him at all and reflecting votes onto me in a very destructive manner.In post 1258, Michael Scott wrote:@Mewtaph: Alchemist rebutted your attack on him, you left it at that though - why?
Rationale for STW, Almost Chara?
Why a policy lynch on Nancy?
~Jimothy
Tl;dr, the rebuttal is how a scum responds and the basis of his approach to me isn't how town thinks. I'm not responding to a hard SR
Why would you expect A50 to be a vocal force in this hydra after SCM1?In post 1264, Mewtaph wrote:On AC: They aren't a town read and I'm much more interested in exploring where Kokichi is going with this rather than discarding what he's saying completely and toss him into the "ML and ignore" pile. A50 has been notably "muted" in presence compared to what I expect from him in other games, so if someone has a chip on the Chara head then I'm willing to roll with a wagon on them.
Show me why you townread Kokichi's contributions (there are reasons for sure) & why you scumread AC? This is nonsensical sorry.
Yes it literally isIn post 1266, Mewtaph wrote:This isn't how town responds to reacting to something stopping a public dayvig shot on them "outside of their knowledge" by the way.
I didn't believe Varsoon's claim at face value, and wasn't even slightly surprised to still be alive
How do you expect town-us to respond differently?
(still going. bit busy tonight.)-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Don't duck the conversationIn post 1294, Mewtaph wrote:I don't know what you're trying to achieve with your posts other than discredit me and insist that I'm scum, and yes, I don't town read you at all for your approach to Varsoon.
I'm trying to work our your thought process here because you just dropped a bunch of really bizarre reads that I absolutely don't relate to so I want to see where you're coming from-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Could you respond to any of the things I asked you?In post 1307, Mewtaph wrote:This is not town. This is not how town approaches the game. Alchemist is not town.
At all?
I don't see how you're town approaching this right now.-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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That's why I reached out to him and he then said he couldn't be bothered engaging with me and walked.In post 1310, Varsoon wrote:Like when I'm struggling with a game and doing my best to engage, when people call my play a joke, I often type out several very violent threats and then backspace them because I don't actually mean them, but I am very pissed off.
-V
In SCM1 he did the EXACT OPPOSITE when he was town and the worst was scum pretending to engage him.
Why the difference?
This is actually bizarre. Can't believe you're not seeing it at all.-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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I get where he's coming from wrt Alchemist but I'm still not sure where he sees scum!Alchemist. There's too much "matching reasons to conclusion" energy. Am I biased or is it genuinely pretty abstract?In post 1327, Almost Chara wrote:i finally, finally, understand what Mewtaph is saying about Alchemist with respect to those two posts.
i think there have been some issues with word choice/communication that have made something simple seem a lot more complicated than it was.
i'm agreeing with the Mewtaph townread, though it's not that strong. don't feel like lynching him today. my reasons are essentially the same as Varsoon's.
~Chara-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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I'm sorry what does this even mean?In post 1355, Varsoon wrote:Plus, compare Mew's parsing of things out to STW's "This is so obviously scum! Lynch it!" approach, y'know?
It's night and day to me.
-V
He's....slowly talking through things in circles and making unbelievable stances?
We're completly uncharismatically headbutting slots to get reads on them?
Have you ever successfully read a loud player's alignment?-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Very marginally but we've kind of not seen anything that's made us think you're a wolf.In post 1381, Almost Chara wrote:hey STW, i'll answer in a second, but i've been wondering why you're townreading us so much. i think you said earlier why (even if i don't remember), but are you paranoid of our slot at all?
~Chara
If anything we'd be scumreading you for that very reason and that doesn't seem like a very productive exercise right now..-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Jjh will actually play the game.In post 1383, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
Why is Kokichi a so much better vote than Nico?In post 1378, Shoshin the worst wrote:VOTE: Kokichi
If this greens I'll reconsider AC
Otherwise I'm treating them as basically hard town
Kokichi is being aggressively bad.
@AC I wouldn't scumread you based on Kokichi's meta. I might just consider it in greater than face value which is pretty much how I'm treating it currently.-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Bruh it should be pretty obvious why I have that approach to the gamestate. It's got nothing to do with the strength of the list. I genuinely just don't get the Mewtaph townread even slightly and nobody is taking the time to point me in the right direction which has me wondering if they're not super confident on it either.In post 1387, ProFlavor wrote:
This is a false bravado and an attempt to discredit the player list.In post 1379, Shoshin the worst wrote:Mewtaph is still a great vote if people pull their heads out but I'm losing faith in this list rapidly
I feel we’re actually a strong playerlist, and whoever said this is attempting to cause doubt within town.
It’s Day 1. Nobody should genuinely have that kind of attitude towards the game state.
~Leaf-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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"let's not lynch him because he's lynchbait" is agenda driven thinking. Kokichi's iso is high wolf equity lol.In post 1389, ProFlavor wrote:Kokichi is also mislynch bait this early in the game. Shoshin is super scum.
~Leaf
don't position our slot like this. take a few minutes to try and see what we're seeing?-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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HrrrrrkkkkkkkkkIn post 1392, ProFlavor wrote:The fact that Varsoon, Mewtaph, and I are the three on Shoshin right now shows me that this is more than likely a scum slot.
Varsoon is hard town here. I’ve recently gotten to witness directly both townVarsoon and scumVarsoon, and really I’ve known Varsoon for like 4 and a half years now, so I’m pretty happy with my read there.
Mewtaph is town for the wagon composition. Mustang and Nancy pushing onto a townie the way they did makes total sense, and then people, and scumShoshin, decide to jump on to Mewtaph.
This also semi incriminates Jjh slot, but I’ll let them catchup first.
I realize my slot will probably be tried to use as a counterwagon option after pushing Shoshone like this, so unless you wanna try to 1v1 me and out explain the damn awful play it would have been to let Mewtaph live in this situation as scum...well, go for it. I could have just kept not playing the game and allowing Profii to play in that situation. Mewtaph likely would have been killed.
So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.
Long story short, Only town are on the Shoshin wagon right now. Bet.
This is still confbiased or agenda driven thinking....
I don't see how you just loljump to the conclusion that because you townread the entire wagon it must be on scum. that's a nonsensical conclusion and is actually heavily inconsistent with scumplay (you can't think both of our scumbuddies would just be hanging back while we go down surely. this is an optimal softbus/distance gamestate and it's radiant). an all town wagon us here is town indicative via vca and you're not convincing me on anything else.
I also don't townread the full wagon and don't understand why you do.
But your bizarre conclusions are more of a problem.-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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I don't think Kokichi's alignment is related to yours right now noIn post 1394, Almost Chara wrote:it's a foolish one if so (not that i'm discounting your interpretation).
what's pretty bizarre to me is the belief that Kokichi's alignment has anything to do with mine here, as though his bad meta read on me has credence provided he's town.
but Leaf, do you think STW decides to have their cake and eat it too, by which i mean continuing to have us as strong town while also trying to lynch someone i don't want to lynch, and leave us open as a target on later days?
and thanks for the answer, Nancy.
~Chara
he was correct on scum!me last game and couldn't be bothered explaining it or revealing his triplevoting IC role that would have confirmed me scum
so if he does flip green I'll take his read on you like 1% seriously and actually see how I feel about it and whether it's worth engaging with you on.-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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#goodpostingIn post 1399, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
+1In post 1396, u r a person 2 wrote:
Can I think that Mew is scum and that you are wrong!town or was there a logic piece that makes that not possible?In post 1392, ProFlavor wrote:So there, Mewtaph and I would have to be scum together AND you’d have to think I would Super obviously protect them in this position AND I would hard town read Varsoon, a solid player who I know would very much end up tunneling me if he thinks I’m scum.-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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How? It literally doesn't.In post 1402, ProFlavor wrote:Wagon composition shows Mewtaph as town. Break it down elsewise if you think otherwise.
~Leaf
You're saying he's town therefore the wagon is town therefore he's town because wagonomics
This is a weird logical cycle that doesn't check out at all-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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*scrolls up*In post 1410, ProFlavor wrote:
I have.In post 1408, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
Once again I repeat: Please explain it to me, like I’m 5. Ktankx.In post 1402, ProFlavor wrote:Wagon composition shows Mewtaph as town. Break it down elsewise if you think otherwise.
~Leaf
Nothing scummy really from Mewtaph, you and Mustang have a tendency to tunnel onto townies, then the near lynch.
If you’re town, then you should feel scum followed you onto the wagon, tbh.
*scrolls back down*
*scrolls back up*
*scrolls back down*
*throws phone out window*-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Please list the people who you think should have resisted the Mewtaph wagon but didn'tIn post 1421, ProFlavor wrote:But I definitely feel the lack of resistance towards Mewtaph prior to me coming in implies Mewtaph town.
The fuck did it even peak at - 4 votes? 5? I can't even remember. It was nowhere near an L-1. I don't think scum voted it. lol.-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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You're not being clear at all. You've already decided the conclusion you're going to end up at so you're talking in circles until you get there. The fact your alleged townreads and your lock scumread are both as fucking confused as each other at your posting should probably tip you off that you're the one not expressing yourself properly...In post 1422, ProFlavor wrote:What do you mean I’m not?
I feel I’m spouting it out pretty clearly.
He’s done nothing scummy, the 2 players who started it are known to tunnel, and there was no resistance before me.
That right there near locks him into town.
And this is BEFORE actually analyzing his play.
He’s been actively giving reads. He’s been asking questions. He’s been in the spot where he’s taking on multiple players at once. This is the epitome of a mislynch. He’s being extremely genuine, and showing thoughts of figuring out the game.
Mixed in with this and my town read of Varsoon, while seeing that U R A and Nancy are confused and trying to figure it out, I feel STW is near lock scum.
Honestly, probably with Mustang here.-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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If this is actually all t/t scum is >rand lurking.
The way Mewtaph is ducking out all the pressure has me cringing again.
Jjh excusable due to rep in. Kokichi's pop ins are consistently bad. Pintu/Taly still worth keeping an eye on.
yeah I'm scumreading a lot of lurkers-
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I think I'm too nice to flashlynch pinturicchio. He literally hasn't been onsite and he's reconsidering from surgery.
He's a very good faith player and will either come back swinging or be replaced if he's not in a state for mafia
We need to make a less bad lynch today.-
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Unfortunately I don't think I like many of the wagons atm at all. I know this is a bad time to get cold feet on Mewtaph but the level of flail and swing around here is actually reminding me of d2 in SCM. I still strongly dislike the way he squirmed when I tried to reach out to him here vs. last game but I'm not sure it's a scumtell in isolation.
jjh would be a terrific flashwagon but we're too close to deadline.
lol Kokichi
gonna go re-weight reads rq
UNVOTE:-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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{STW}
{Varsoon} - either conftown or obvscum. no one forget this ever.
{Meph39}
{Tibor and Lumia}
{Alchemist21}
{u r a person 2, Almost Chara}
^^^ prrrrrobably all town in order of confidence. if I'm wrong on a townread I think it's urap2/ac but I don't feel wrong on them
{ProFlavor}
{Michael Scott}
^^^ old townreads I can't remember if I like anymore
untiered:
Kokichi
jjh927
Mewtaph
Taly-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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I feel really bad for saying this but it's close to deadline and we're considered as a viable lynch so:
This has pretty obviously been one head, both of us have been a little busy (hence need for hydraing) and need to resync really soon.
I'm probably gonna get punched for saying this-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
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Going for tiered empathy on our voters it's basically
Mewtaph >>> Varsoon > ProFlavor > Kokichi
It kinda checks out for Mewtaph to be like AW NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN as town and vote us. I can't decide if the freezing in real-time thing is more likely to come from scum or town if I'm completely honest. From one perspective it does suck to be bombed with questions and ridicule as scum who feels like you're doing well so reacting with like "ew you suck" because I'm not townreading him. but on the flip side this COULD be a genuine considered reaction given last time I reached out to him I was going for a last minute pocket before lolhammering him.
Maybe scum!Mewtaph thinks harder about the optics of not talking to us at all in real-time, putting us down then disappearing? I don't really know, anyone wanna check his scum meta or...?
Varsoon's push on us is offensively outside the realm of common sense and I've spoken about it a lot but I think the fact I'm genuinely annoyed by it says something
Pro's vote on us is frankly pockety and I've documented my wall of issues with the nonsense they're spewing.
Kokichi's play vs. {AC, us} is transparent self defence and...isn't towny....-
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We're likeIn post 1597, ProFlavor wrote:Anyone who doesn’t want to vote STW can you tell me why the difficulty of getting the wagon together isn’t scum indicative please
~ woof
overwhelmingly obviously town
even comparing to SCM1 where both heads were hard townread as scum d1 lol-
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The bottom bit isn't ordered, that's why I said it's untieredIn post 1594, Mephistophanes 39 wrote:
Is your untiered list, ordered?In post 1589, Shoshin the worst wrote:{STW}
{Varsoon} - either conftown or obvscum. no one forget this ever.
{Meph39}
{Tibor and Lumia}
{Alchemist21}
{u r a person 2, Almost Chara}
^^^ prrrrrobably all town in order of confidence. if I'm wrong on a townread I think it's urap2/ac but I don't feel wrong on them
{ProFlavor}
{Michael Scott}
^^^ old townreads I can't remember if I like anymore
untiered:
Kokichi
jjh927
Mewtaph
Taly
If so, why is Taly at the bottom? I have a hard gut townread on him.
Also, why does Profilhead seem kind of townie and Eraserleaf, more like flaming scum?
I'll switch to jjh as a sheer compromise but if that slot's town we'll start to see it.
I don't trust my soul/gutreads because I am very capable of being biased.-
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{STW}
{Varsoon} - either conftown or obvscum. no one forget this ever.
{Meph39}
{Tibor and Lumia}
{Alchemist21}
{u r a person 2, Almost Chara}
{Michael Scott}
untiered PoE
{ProFlavor, Kokichi, jjh927, Mewtaph, Taly}
will lynch anyone in this pool unless convinced otherwise.-
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I've talked about Taly so muchIn post 1751, Varsoon wrote:In post 177, Shoshin the worst wrote:if you could give taly a quick ISO then ctrl+f "taly" in our iso I think you'll get the gist of it. I'm not fully ready to reveal what we've picked up on QUITE yet.
...ready now?
-V
then I explained to him why he was an rvs scumread and he complained about it and told me he needs more time/freedom and exited the thread and I was like "OK but we're not townreading you" and he hasn't come back-
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Because I wanted to see what he produced organically as much as possible.In post 1756, Varsoon wrote:In post 996, Shoshin the worst wrote:
Taly's RVS post is what originally scumpinged me.In post 43, Taly wrote: so much opportunity to get pocketed!!
._. im gonna have to reread that playerlist movement night action stuff arent i?
not feeling thekokichiIC claim but i slight townvibe it anyway
VOTE: Almost Chara
RVS is bullshit but square up w me, both heads now
~ Taly
I don't think he's really done anything outside his scumrange (not anything particularly towny). Taly do you disagree? If I'm grossly misreading you here, help me see where I'm wrong. A lot your defence of yourself & probing of other slots has kind of skated around the centre; the way you do as scum (e.g. PYPX/Y).
> the pocketed comment & the thing wrt rereading playerlist movement just feels forced and stiff. I think there's a hesitation in Taly's tonality through the thread, so far, which I can't not notice.
> the comment about not feeling Kokichi's IC claim but townvibing it is absolutely bizarre. I can see this coming from someone who played SCM1 and liked the laissez-faire comedic entry to the thread but I literally can't see any reason to be townpinged by Kokichi lolclaiming IC and then lurking it out. This doesn't feel like critical reading so much as an agenda/TMI'd read and I think it's the kind of slip-up scum do make while still in RVS.
> RVS bullshit thing is incredibly forced (fwiw voting AC in rvs doesn't seem beneficial to me but I feel like I'm the only person onsite who enjoys RVS for content)
Is it really just "His RVS post scumpinged me."
Like
Is that really why you were so evasive on taking a hard scumread there early?
-V-
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No. We spoke at length about his rvs contributions and agreed they were >rand wolf. What else are we meant to scumread there?In post 1760, Varsoon wrote:So you lied about having a hard scumread there because you wanted Taly's posts to be more organic?
-V-
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I mean maybe? We spoke about it a bit and decided we were comfortable having him uncomfortable by knowing he had an enemy but didn't think it was valuable to elaborate on it at the time. I actually think his contributions still haven't towntold at all.In post 1762, Varsoon wrote:Don't you think Taly's posts would be even more unbiased if you hadn't claimed a scumread on the slot or been elusive about saying why you were scumreading it?
If you had just straightforwardly addressed what was scummy (I'm still not even sure what post 'scumpinged' you), that seems like the proper way of doing things.
It really seems like you just made up a reason to have what seemed like an informed read, and then used that to position re: a townslot you knew you could drag down.
-V
Valid to question our methods but I don't think they're ~wrong~ just maybe you would've approached this differently? We don't hugely regret it-
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Because we had other stuff to doIn post 1765, Varsoon wrote:So, if you scumread those posts, why didn't you just say so right away and push Taly over it?
-V
I think it was super obvious we scumread those posts tho because short of a n0 guilty I'm not sure why we would scumread Taly? like if you're taking exception to this i have no idea what you expected us to say-
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Straight up I didn't read the opening posts to see the thing about a mod confirmed vigilanteIn post 1768, Varsoon wrote:I 100% would have approached it differently.
If you're town here, being furtive is literally what drew my shot to you.
Why would you be anything besides straightforward and transparent in your methods when there's a MOD CONFIRMED vigilante in the setup?
-V
I still think our play is completely defensible and I wouldn't expect a MOD CONFIRMRD VIGILANTE to shoot us for that. like I still genuinely don't understand why you did.-
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- Joined: January 4, 2019
@V given you've seen how forward both of us can be as scum why did you apply that scumtell to us in the first place?
From my point of view it looked incredibly reactionary and basically boiled down to "I don't like people beating around the bush THEREFORE BYE"
I get that after scm1 it's also probably annoying reading either of our heads but you just went thru an entire game with both of us. that reasoning is pretty lazy. sorry if I've been bordering on being rude with this whole ideal but I really really don't like being misvigged.-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 345
- Joined: January 4, 2019
I'm struggling with where as well. We have like 12 hours left.
If I was a vig I'd be vigging ProFlavor because I don't think I have the energy levels/charisma to push through that lynch. Taly would be great too but I don't think I'm getting the support. Mewtaph I'm a little colder on. Kokichi is obvscum but I'm getting yelled at for voting him. jjh is my least preferred thru sheer inactivity. it's a compromise I'll do but still a compromise.-
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Shoshin the worst Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 345
- Joined: January 4, 2019