Starcraft Mafia: 2 -- Game Over!
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Oh wait NVM, yeah I suppose waiting for the last claims is a better idea.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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I'm leaving out one tiny part of my role which I don't think is relevant to town WRT solving for scum, but will help town.
I'm Zerg Overmind, an informed town ascetic. I'm a ground unit, a building.
I was informed that multiple X-shot BP exist; and also that there are no town doctors, jailkeepers, rolestoppers or aliens that could target air units.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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@Almost Chara, that feels odd; Almost50 was active a few hours ago and was even posting elsewhere. Claiming simply takes a couple minutes and no thought (If you're town), it's just hard to buy that tbh.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Also, I didn't move both nights. I'm a building, so can't move.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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If Almost Chara is town, then Mewtaph is *definitely* town.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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What does that mean?
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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If enemy air units that pass over you get killed, why would you think Mewtaph is scum here?In post 2479, Almost Chara wrote:Preliminary movement analysis suggests Mewtaph is the Scum protective.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Right. So you mean you *block* scum kills when scum tries to kill someone on the opposite side. Am I correct?-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Varsoon, would you be able to make a fullclaim rn? Who'd you target N1?-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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@AC: Sorry if I'm being a bit nit-picky here, but why'd you move down SIX spaces on N1? You were at position 5 after STW's lynch; that would only make you have Alch, Creature and Varsoon below you. How is that "in-the-middle"? Explain.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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In post 2458, Almost Chara wrote:As for why the shot has been blocked, I did offer an explanation. Something anti-something. Since I don't know the game itself I can't specify exactly, but there are certain defensive mechanics that block certain offensive actions. Like, om so many games there are anti-air defenses to shoot down jet fighters but they do not affect tanks. Submarines that will sink ships but not attack aerial/ground units.
Almost Chara, I'm just clarifying here: You posted the top quote because you knew about your own role, but at the same time you were confident it wasn't *you* who blocked it because you only target enemy air units; Correct?In post 2519, Almost Chara wrote:Also notice that we are looking for that someone that blocked Varsoon's shot, and I know it wasn't us, so I am looking for someone who has been close enough to STW and has moved towards where the Vig was (they probably didn't expect Varsoon to jump up 7 notches).-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Oh, okay then. Looking forward to your reads/solve! I strongly feel jjh and ProFlavor are scum here. I very strongly feel T&L is town, and I think Alch is town too. Pint I'm unsure about.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Varsoon is probably air, he said he can move anywhere.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Wait, where did Varsoon say he was grounded?
Almost Chara falls into the same as Pint - their claim seems to check out, and is consistent with their D2 speculation and play, so I want to call them town, but I am paranoid about the slot.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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I don't get your question? Yes, partly because the 1v1 was caused by a reaaon which you believed, which I knew to be untrue.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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I still believe jjh927 is very likely scum though. I thought I caught a contradiction in his claimed night movement, but I ran through the claimed movements and it checks out. No one seems to have lied about their movements, at least.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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What benefit would walking past AC give?
Who do you think is scum apart from jjh?-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Are you referring to the part about certain abilities being able to get past the BP?-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Hmm. Varsoon, do you think scum!BP is a possibility?
Because you could attempt a vig shot on jjh tonight to test his claim - if he's scum and lying, he gets vigged; if he's town and telling the truth, nothing happens.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Both NKs are flavored as "killed by Marine Fire", do you think it implies kills by ground units?
That would also imply proximity, right? Pint was a spot away from both NKs...-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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It's LyLo but if jjh is town, he's BP, right?
So it shouldn't affect him, and it's equivalent to not killing.
This way we can ensure he's not lying about BP, at least.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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It's not LyLo; We're 6v3 now. We can afford exactly one Mislynch
But yeah, I still think jjh is a safe shot.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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There's no Redirector.
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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I also said anyone having BP shouldn't claim that they do.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Regardless, Varsoon should vig jjh927 over no-killing.
The former at least confirms that jjh isn't scum lying about BP *in the case* that someone else in town has BP and hid that info, as I said.
I don't see why anyone should claim BP when we can confirm this. Do you think otherwise?-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Eh, screw it - I think too much discussion here is just going to confuse us, and that confusion isn't worth the gambit.
The part I stated I omitted was that I'm X-shot BP. (Not revealing X)
I thought I could bait a NK. This is how I was 'informed' of multiple BP; since I'm the other BP.
I'm pretty sure T&L and jjh927 aren't W/W here so I made that assertion.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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I think brassherald is playing *way* outside his scumrange, looking at Gundam Mafia; given the way he reacted to jjh927's roleclaim, I'm extremely confident he's town.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Lol, just compare Brassherald's play in Gundam Mafia with his reactions here.
Even in that case you're proposing - that I'm gambiting hard with scum!T&L, what purpose would that serve, Pintu?
Unless you mean {MS, T&L, jjh} is the scum team with jjh bulletproof?-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Informed Ascetic X-Shot Bulletproof.
My only information was that town doc, JK, rolestopper, alien can't target air units.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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How do you townread JJH, Alchemist21?
That shooting JJH is a good option didn't occur to me till then. I was suggesting not killing anyone earlier.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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@Pint: You're saying I'm gambiting now just so I can set up JJH for tomorrow and achieve a different mislynch today?
That's a *bit* of a stretch, right - since it seems easy for a JJH wagon to happen anyway, and if I prevent JJH's ML as scum, there's a good chance I or a buddy of mine could get lynched - since no one's really out of lynch danger at this point.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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He could've, but the way he went about responding to jjh927's claim I find hard to fake considering his prior playstyle. I don't think it's easy to change his scum playstyle dramatically to whatever he did.In post 2890, pinturicchio wrote:You're talking about a game that finished on May, right? 'Cause between May and now brass could've changed his playstyle dramatically since he had a site hiatus at some point. I know I changed since my hiatus, so why wouldn't he?-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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If JJH being BP doesn't lessen the chances he's scum, we should lynch him today, then - confirming he's BP doesn't give us much to go off of.In post 2893, Varsoon wrote:it's erroneous for us to assume BP = town.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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You should, man. You're the only confirmed town at this point.In post 2893, Varsoon wrote:I don't feel like putting in the effort at all.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Cool then. Your current best solve is {jjh927, ProFlavor, Mewtaph}, right?-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Bad points =/= scum.In post 2898, jjh927 wrote:What the shit about brass' initiation of a 1v1 was towny? I can point to a bunch of really bad points in those posts
I'm going by meta - by his May meta at least this (the way he reacted in the 1v1) is out of his scumrange; and I don't think it's likely that it's grown so much over a hiatus.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Honest opinion - doesn't matter, man.In post 2902, Varsoon wrote:I feel like I'll just continue to lead us to ruin and that's why I was allowed to even live this long.
You're a capable player, having a bad game - doesn't mean you can't turn things around.
Also, play to have fun. It's cool if you play your best and it results in a loss.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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I was ready to go at any point. If I was scum I'd have something spicier tbhIn post 2904, pinturicchio wrote:But your claim is sketchy, or at least the way you presented it and being you the last one doing it. I thought that you would have something more spicy, but now it seems like you managed to claim last with a lie.
There's no scum benefit to also claiming BP especially if both jjh927 and T&L are town BP. Correct me if wrong?-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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The bulk of arguments in this game are subjective, though.In post 2903, jjh927 wrote:Talking about scumranges tends to make for very poor and subjective arguments that boil down to circular reasoning
It's not circular reasoning. Meta is a pretty useful tool.
Besides, I asked for your T&L case - apart from their 'bad points' in the 1v1, what else makes them scum?-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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And the cost of the whole crumbing multiple BP, finally fakeclaiming BP doesn't justify the very slim benefit of being able to pull off that kinda stretched gambit.In post 2908, pinturicchio wrote:The benefit is saying that T&L is town and that jjh should be shot; that means none of them flips and you get to lead whatever happens on D3, like a mislynch on ProFlavor, which I was expecting to be your next move.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Well, okay, then. Also, could you tell me your read on ProFlavor?-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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It's objectively a bad move as scum, I'm saying, as the costs outweigh the benefits; furthermore in this gamestate with us scum and JJH town it's a much slimmer benefit than you seem to think it is, because if I was scum and JJH was town that's a *very likely* mislynch today.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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See - T&L being townread means I can go "townleader" mode and also simply push jjh927 *without* orchestrating an elaborate double fakeclaim with T&L.
Like cool, I get the paranoia, I'm just showing how it's really implausible.
Also place your vote I guess?-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Logic being that if it's too implausible, it's not alignment-indicative.
Also, could you walk me through why ProFlavor is in your solve?
You were very confident on him being town before.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Cool, cool. The way you're pushing me and our equal primary solves makes me think you're town, especially if jjh927 flips scum; I asked that just to make sure you were being consistent with what I read from your ISO.
I dunno what to make of FL's lack of investment this game - he enjoys playing scum, right? Cause he's been active in other games.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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I did expect that you would, given your own prior belief that town would have only one BP; fair enough.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Small correction @AC, I think Mew has Alchemist in his solve.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Almost Chara: Did A50 not know that Varsoon was mechanically cleared prior to post 2935? I want to know your combined read progression on Varsoon's slot.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Also, can you walk me through your Alchemist townread? From the game I've read it seems like he's an easy read with a meta of "not having enough presence" as scum. He seemed town to me from play but his post-D1 play feels like it matches that, so I'm getting a bit worried about my read there.
Also, I expected more reactions if we found the scumteam by consensus; why would a scumteam just ignore that?
Also, any pointers from mechanics? Both kills were by Marine fire, that implies ground units, yes? I'm not so good at this, but if you can figure out something it'd be great. One of my concerns with Pint is that he was adjacent to both the NKs.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Both Mewtaph and jjh927 never once mention ProFlavor in their ISOs, interesting.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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This makes me feel AC is town - scum!AC wouldn't bother trying to cast doubt on Varsoon; if AC was scum, I'd expect A50 to be updated with the scum thread / agenda at least.In post 2943, Michael Scott wrote:Almost Chara: Did A50 not know that Varsoon was mechanically cleared prior to post 2935? I want to know your combined read progression on Varsoon's slot.
I'd still like the progression explained though.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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So I've had a chat with Volxen, and these are the conclusions we've come to.
- Volxen pointed out that 3 town BPswith one unlimited-shot seems very unlikely, and I agree; also, an unlimited-BP doesn't make much sense even if certain abilities can bypass it.One of {jjh, T&L} is scumand we'rehighly confidentit's jjh927. There are other reasons that lend jjh927 scum equity - like the lack of vote on both days D1.jjh927 has to be lynched today.
- Pintu and ProFlavor aren't W/W: Both scum fakeclaiming Zergling leaving only three confirmed town Zerglings is unlikely - so a scumflip on one of them makes the other town.
- Mewtaph and Alchemist21 are likely not TvT: The game having three town-aligned air units with all scum fakeclaiming ground units is unlikely. Their tunnel supports this. Mewtaph is much likelier to be scum IMO in this situation, considering his lack of town meta-match, his lack of mention of other scumspects, and bad votes.
- Almost Chara is probtown: In addition to my earlier reasoning (can't see the Varsoon push coming from scum and their D2 play seems consistent with the claim), Volxen pointed out that it's reasonable to expect a town anti-air defence role given there are scum air units.
~Jimothy-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Chara, you said that our solve doesn't fit with the massclaim - it looks pretty fine to us, can you go into a bit more detail there? Also please respond to the question in 2944, please.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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The second and third questions were to everybody. Thing is, you're the only active player here I can sort through exchanges -- I'm still waiting for jjh927's case on T&L (and also Pintu), and for ANY reads at all from ProFlavor.In post 2952, Almost Chara wrote:i know you're just trying to figure things out but if you're keen to ask me all of these questions, could you think of some to ask other people besides your townread? i've said i don't have a lot of time and that hasn't changed.
I do have a small amount of paranoia that Mewtaph is town and Alch is scum; I'm not sure what I can ask him or engage him on to solidify reads there.-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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Of course. I and AC have this feeling too - to quote what Volxen said to me in Discord, "scum are not always mastermind's, sometimes they mess up and become easy solves "In post 2958, Mewtaph wrote:Your current solve and possible combinations I have considered in my own time and have felt that they felt too easy.
Your argument about jjh927 not putting in effort is applicable to you too, if you're town I hope you get into the game more. Can you talk to me more about my analysis in 2949?-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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General thoughts. Also, what's your solve apart from Alchemist21? Who do you think could be deepwolves here?-
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Michael Scott Mafia Scum
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