Dr Worm has been more helpful and thoughtful than youIn post 3564, Allomancer wrote:This is the kind of shitposting I did not subscribe for.
Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]
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@Krazy this feels pretty icky to meIn post 3699, Krazy wrote:You haven't made 7 wallposts about coins which I take to be a scumclaim for you
Point me to a towngame where you do this little setup spec discussion then
And maybe stop playing guessing games and saying that every fos that comes your way is bias over being a replacement. It seems like you've spent this game more being indignant over being scumread than in sorting, although it's possible your indignation and omgusing just sticks in my memory better
I haven't played with S_S before so I don't know how valid the claims about his meta are but your comment about coin wall posts just feels awful considering that's literally how you entered the game. Regardless of meta, I doubt setup spec is ever alignment indicative and framing this in such a way to imply he's scum for not doing setup spec just feels like a weird angle to take. Mostly because that's how you entered the game and a couple people initially town read you for it. IDK where I'm going with this, it's just weird and I don't really think you're scum but your scum read on S_S feels weird enough that I think it may warrant rereading or something because it doesn't seem genuine (maybe you're just conf biasing)
Plus, your second talking point about him being aware about his scum reads comes directly from Doubting_Thomas, and you haven't mentioned it at all before so idk where you are pulling "indignation and omgusing" from-
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ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhIn post 3724, Krazy wrote:this is also like the 11th time I felt like Dann was turning on someone shortly after other people had started to push on the slot and it's one reason I liked Pvt airing his skepticism of that slot. I still lean town on Dann but if there is a deepwolf he is the slot I am most worried about. I think Dann's posts bug me a lot at times and I think Pvt is pretty likely town to get pinged by his posts, even if he's possibly wrong.
so, I wasn't going to tell you this, because I wanted to see what Nancy thought in our PT. but I think I should just be upfront, because this is getting really silly
From my perspective, you are the slot I am most worried about being a deep wolf. This post doesn't make me feel better. You have fucking mentioned how paranoid you are about me AT LEAST 20 times this game and I'm not even exaggerating. I don't have the time right now but I bet I could quote every post you've thrown slight shade or suspicion towards my slot and it would be a fucking wall. Now, I understand your paranoia towards me slot. I know where it comes from and what game it comes from and (I think I know your alt?) it's perfectly justified honestly. It's one of the reasons I've town ready you since the beginning because that paranoia seems like a town instinct.
But I've become paranoid of you. The amount of times you've brought up this thing you can't talk about it and even used PvT to exacerbate it seems like you're setting yourself up to have me as [strong town] until it becomes inconvenient. Maybe you want us our two pairs to be end game so you can make a convincing/natural case on me through this.
You just said my posts bug you a lot when I'm pretty sure a while back you said something along the lines of "only one or two things Dann has said has ever pinged me," which I can find the exact quote later, don't have time right now
I've town read you since the beginning but I feel the exact same paranoia towards you that I think you have towards me right now. I would also like to see the apparent "11" times I've turned on someone, because I'm pretty sure I can find 20 times you've thrown shade of me despite me being one of your top town reads. Although, no wait, apparently I'm a "lean town" now.
I just find this situation very silly and a little frustrating if we're both town because it's getting to the point where I think it'll start exemplifying the over-paranoia and second guessing town get a lot when a game goes on long enough or too smoothly. I like your paranoia of me, but the amount of times you've fucking pushed it and the ways you've done so continuing with this most recent post make me just as paranoid about you I have to be hoenst
I jsut needed to put that out there because if you're scum we'll have to 1v1 eventually anyway, and if you're town I want you to have an accurate read on me and I think not hiding this from you will help
sorry if that wasn't coherent I have very little time-
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I think it was good discussion too and I'm actually really glad you goaded him into posting his case on me. Maybe it wasn't as productive as it could have been but I've been wanting to see his thought processes towards me all game and it made me feel so much better about him knowing that he seemed to be coming from a legitimate place and wasn't just tunneling me for some WIFOM scum reason or to be difficult.In post 3726, Krazy wrote:I still think Pvt's push on you was a good discussion at the time and was kinda pissed that people seemed to come in and shit on him for it, and actually working through that naturally I think might have helped me feel better about you, instead that conversation felt like it was kinda blown past before you even had a need or opportunity to rebut his points so I could see more of your thought process there
*I'm not doing good at this logging out thing rn but I will try 0.o*
My reads on some people in the game have waffled a lot, and I think that adding to your paranoia of me is fine. I don't think my paranoia of you matters too much, which is why I didn't bring it up before. It's the sort of thing that I don't have to deal with until later, crossing that bridge when it comes to it, and I'm just hoping I don't have to. I think we just have to accept that we're both gonna be lowkey paranoid of the other for a while because each of us is the most likely "deep wolf" from the others perspective, and that it's probably a good thing that it's there at least to some degree
idk, anyway my earlier post was not turning on you. I definitely still town read you, I just wanted to let you know I didn't find that specific post very good, which is why I directed it at you specifically, because I wanted to engage with you on it. I feel better after yours + S_S's explanation
anyway good night I really have to log off now too-
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he was notIn post 3727, Something_Smart wrote:I don't think this ever got answered btw.
at least as far as I know lol-
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not too much
I know you have a reputation for being really good
I think I read some mafia discussion thread where you were arguing with Persivul and he accused you of lowering your scum game or to boost your town win rate or something
mostly just that you're a (pretty?) respected player and sometimes try hard-
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also I did indeed get lynched that game lmao
ok I read some game with persivul as scum where he was mad that it was town sided, but maybe that's too general a descriptor
I'm off for real now, will still try to get on at least once a day this week. I like S_S a lot more as town now, pair her with towniest gent, probably PvT, I'm null on moment but I trust RC/Ank if that's their consensus. and let me know if DT ever answers my questions from earlier.-
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I support a no lynch Dance 1. I'll hopefully be around enough that the shorter deadline won't matter.
Overall I think it's worthwhile given the state of the game and just to avoid the coin mechanic. I don't trust someone won't accidentally get lynched because voters forgot how many coins they had.
VOTE: No Lynch Dance 1
How long till the deadline and are people even gonna get online in time to pair?-
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no you are good Taly <3In post 3981, Taly wrote:someone shoot me
i didnt want to go strong on any reads in Pre-Dance or talk so much in the last 2 days of Pre-Dance and im violating both shamelessly
i need to hide ASAP
I wanted to echo that I really enjoy this playerlist and setup as well even though that was from your post 9 pages ago but whatever I just read it so that's what really counts
Also, I found your PvT case interesting, but it just kinda compounds the conundrum ofwhyscum in his position would do that. Like, it seems like rather illogical play regardless of alignment, and imo town is more likely to just have games where they're obviously playing illogically or poorly.-
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I agree but I'm not sure the relation to my postIn post 3986, Ankamius wrote:With the way town have gone about this, any scum not pocketing is pretty much doomed this game-
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If he does flip scum, that's exactly what he wantsIn post 3996, Pink Ball wrote:If urist doesn't pair today and flips scum, I'll reconsider my read on DanceFloor.-
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I'm mostly just waiting around for my PT to do further analysis/reconsider my reads. I don't think it's healthy for me to get too inside my head before we have any information to go off of. Plus, it'll be nice to have someone else to keep me in check in a less of a clusterfuck environment than this thread.-
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like tonight/tomorrow iircIn post 4023, DoubtingThomas wrote:and wheres end of pre dance-
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In post 4045, Krazy wrote:Ank are you scum?
ok I'm probably taking things out of context or misunderstanding but I just wanna be clear, Krazy do you scum read Ank?In post 4051, Krazy wrote:Your pair is locktown-
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this is rlly sad to watch where the fuck are all the people who are about to die lmaoIn post 4054, DoubtingThomas wrote:stop fucking fighting over nothing when your boi doesnt even have a partner and is about to die
why don't you just dj for the dance who needs a date-
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oh yea I actually laughed when I saw "suggestion noted" scrolling through, love the dry humorIn post 4059, Krazy wrote:No I'm just annoyed at her for not getting my snide humor-
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we shall reunite perhapsIn post 4282, Pink Ball wrote:Why are you so likeable? Don't you realize our love is forbidden?
in another time
in another place
another life-
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I really wanna know how Pvt ends up sorting/reading Gamma. I was discussing with Nancy that I think Gamma is town during intermission, but it's really hard to sort her given her presence in the game and the fact that she hasn't been fully into it. It'll probably be easier/more effective in a PT where Gamma is focused and isn't distracted with squabbling about random things.
pedit: or Gamma can jam out reads and we can read her better that way lol-
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Were you stated to be the first lynch?In post 4303, Gamma Emerald wrote:Interesting given I was stated to be first lynch. Is there anything beyond WiFoM that would explain that selection?
It throws suspicion on me first of all, especially as someone stated yesterday that they thought me vs. PvT was SvT.
Also, if you're scum, it makes you safer or at least forces town to get rid of their IC to get rid of you.
The NK makes sense. RC/Ank had become pretty much universally town read and Krazy and I both have a decent amount of paranoia directed towards us-
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I'm slightly more inclined to think the IC was put on a scum pair if only to force town to get rid of it early.In post 4308, Krazy wrote:
If you're town, probably this. This is downside/upside of not lynching in Dance 1; it means the IC is on a lower-ranked pairing, and so the partner will be under more suspicion (rightfully or wrongfully).In post 4303, Gamma Emerald wrote:Interesting given I was stated to be first lynch. Is there anything beyond WiFoM that would explain that selection?
Like, scum knows the lower pairs aren't going to last long regardless. If they put it on a town pair, they risk the pair towning it up and becoming a threat. At least this way they can either save an already dead-in-the-water scum or force town to get rid of their IC.
Those are my initial thoughts, someone check my logic please-
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very hesitant on this because I was town reading Gamma during intermissionIn post 4314, Dannflor wrote:I'm slightly more inclined to think the IC was put on a scum pair if only to force town to get rid of it early.
Like, scum knows the lower pairs aren't going to last long regardless. If they put it on a town pair, they risk the pair towning it up and becoming a threat. At least this way they can either save an already dead-in-the-water scum or force town to get rid of their IC.
Those are my initial thoughts, someone check my logic please
WIFOM is possible too I guess-
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In post 3647, Gamma Emerald wrote:I do have reads. I suspect DT and Dr. Worm. Krazy, you, Urist, and Vedith are about what my town pool is rn. Nancy I'm pretty much at "begrudgingly town". Moment I want to stop ignoring me. I have reads, but they're certainly incomplete and there's a lot of circlejerking around the same slots which doesn't help.
This is what I found of your reads. Are DT and Dr. Worm still your top suspects?In post 3596, Gamma Emerald wrote:I am townreading Allo most I think, but here's the thing: I actually want to pair with Moment because I feel like they're deliberately ignoring me, and being in a PT with them puts them right where I can grill them.
What about the slots you haven't mentioned?-
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I don't follow this. RC/Ank were a widely town read pair too, what makes it less likely RC/Ank + end game pair wouldn't be able to figure out who the potential final scum is over Dann/Nancy/Moment/Brie? In fact, that situation seems even more dangerous just because RC is there.In post 4370, Something_Smart wrote:
I think it doesn't make sense, yes. Even if there's one scum is Dann/Nancy/Moment/Brie, lynching all the other pairs won't win scum the game; those two pairs will still get a chance to figure it out. Furthermore, there's no guarantee that people will respect RC's reads after he's dead.In post 4368, Pink Ball wrote:Yes I'm saying he could be wrong on one pairing and you could use that to your benefit. SS if you're town, you think this doesn't make sense? 'cause I think it's pretty easy to understand what I'm saying.
Killing the town pair in those two seems stronger from that position. That way, RC will be alive and actively defending the other one, and he'll push to have them endgame, since he said multiple times he expected to be paranoia lynched. The only way this would be worse is if I'd think it would be absolutely impossible to paranoia lynch RC, which wouldn't make any sense with the way I've been playing.
I have to double check this, but wasn't RC expressing last minute doubts about Brie, however?-
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This was the list I gave Nancy during intermission:
Dannflor / Nancy
Ankamius / RC
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Krazy/Taly
Pvt/Gamma
Pink Ball/Dr Worm
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Moment/TheBrie
Vedith/FireBringer
DT/SS
This wasn't necessarily individual reads of players, but where I think scum is most likely. 0 in the top bracket, one max in the top bracket, and likely two in the bottom bracket.
The IC made me think Gamma could be mechanically scum more likely, but I feel like I have a pretty good town read on her, and if PvT is leaning town on her, I'm content with that read. I agree with Vedith (wow) that FB might be scum here? #4429 in particular pings me as scum realizing they messed up and trying to get back on Vedith's good side. I'm a little worried it's just FB not being invested but... I'm confused why a PT with Vedith wouldn't help FB get more invested/have fun.
@Vedith can you elaborate on your theory as to why FB stopped responding why you're pretty sure that means he's scum? Also, I doubt anything I say will have an impact on what you do, but maybe wait to leave the dance until you've had a chance to interact with everyone and their reads? I think you're likely town and if you're really planning to flip more info would be good.
My current readslist
Vedith-Firebringer
Dr Worm - Pink Ball
Krazy-Taly
Dannflor - Nancy Drew 39
Moment-TheBrie
DoubtingThomas-Something_Smart
PvtUrist-Gamma Emerald
I don't necessarily want to push SS/DT riight away, especially because I think SS is town. I want to see what SS thinks of DT in their PT. Also, if Vedith/FB is gonna resolve itself, we should wait for that too. I also have a few too many town reads, but that's standard for me. I tend to look for reasons people are town first (opposite of Vedith), and then revisit the weaker reads later.-
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I too, have had a lot of paranoia/general suspicion thrown my way, more than RC I think. I don't think anyone outright scum read RC?In post 4437, Something_Smart wrote:
RC seemed pretty confident he would be paranoia lynched at some point, and for good reason, because a lot of people get paranoid of him very easily. His plan was made without his survival in mind. This is independent of whether or not his pair was townread (and I'd say they were fairly townread but not incredibly so, although maybe more people townread them than were vocal about it).In post 4434, Dannflor wrote:I don't follow this. RC/Ank were a widely town read pair too, what makes it less likely RC/Ank + end game pair wouldn't be able to figure out who the potential final scum is over Dann/Nancy/Moment/Brie? In fact, that situation seems even more dangerous just because RC is there.
The problem is RC had his doubts about Brie iirc, which puts that pair into slight question, and I've had paranoia and scum reads thrown my way since the start of the game, so taking one of our pairs out isn't necessarily better than taking out RC/Ank if scum thinks they won't be able to lynch them.-
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Can you elaborate on Pink Ball strong-town? I don't necessarily disagree with a town read I've just been lowkey paranoid of being pocketed there.In post 4346, PvtUrist wrote:Vedith - Firebringer
Dr Worm-Pink Ball
Krazy- Taly
Dancefloor-Nancy Drew 39
Moment - TheBrie
DoubtingThomas - Something_Smart
PvtUrist-Gamma Emerald
Current town-reads. Dark greens are conf/strong town, light greens are lean town.-
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My town read on you has nothing to do with meta and I've gone into it pretty thoroughly btwIn post 4443, Taly wrote:2) I don't follow your townread on me because a big portion of the stated reason behind it in this game is on meta, and we haven't played before.
Just letting you know if you missed it that there are reasons ppl might town read you besides just meta (which isn't a super reliable tool anyways)-
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I'm not to sure what exactly you want me to evaluate.In post 4445, Taly wrote:Can you evaluate my back-and-forth with Vedith the past few pages and get back to me?
It reads to me like clashing townies who just have different ways of approaching the game and don't necessarily have similar reads. It's best if you try to understand how/why Vedith is getting to his positions and reads (vice versa too), instead of arguing over methods.-
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oh jesus I'd mentally repressed thatIn post 4449, Something_Smart wrote:Honestly it's mostly due to that marathon game lol. You played pretty similarly there to here.
I guess that's fair? I don't really agree that I played similarly and i'd question using marathon meta in general, but that seems like a natural read progression to me so I'm fine with that explanation-
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When was Gamm the most scumread player in the game? What?In post 4452, Something_Smart wrote:
I'm pretty sure Dann-scum would be more than content to IC the partner of the most scumread player in the game.In post 4451, Taly wrote:I don't know why Dann-scum would be content with having Urist as an IC.-
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I don't mean to portray you as that either, I just mean you guys have very different styles and they're clearly clashing.In post 4451, Taly wrote:I'm not arguing with him. I don't like how I've been portrayed as being forceful or aggressive.
I'm TRYING to understand him.
Why is Vedith town to you?
I had Vedith as an early town-lean for his behavior and attitude towards the start of the game, but that kinda waned with time as he disappeared as soon as he got a match and refused to participate anymore.
He's reassured me by coming back now with reads and analysis. Also, I don't think he's joking about suiciding when he says he scum reads Fire and would leave him. Don't think scum backs themselves into that corner when trading 1 for 1 for FB of all players isn't worth.-
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In post 3809, RadiantCowbells wrote:i think i'm back to thinking brie is townIn post 3917, RadiantCowbells wrote:moment/brie and nd/dannflor
NVM to what I said earlier about BrieIn post 3921, RadiantCowbells wrote:all 4 of those ppl are near 100%
Just double checked and RC had gone back to thinking she was town-
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I mean Vedith should try to explain his reads, and I think he said he'd address them once he got to a computer, so we can wait for that.In post 4393, Taly wrote:Vedith only has 4 individual townreads in a game of 16 players left alive and we are nearing 5000 posts in, and the only town/town pair to him consists of the person who just got IC'ed.
The only scum/scum pair he has consists of who the IC pushed the most Pre-Dance. (Urist on Dann)
His townread on me is least understated or understood out of the entire playerlist since the strongest townreads on me are meta based and we haven't played before to my memory.
I do think you're both being tripped up a bit because Vedith's play style is much more focused on find scum than find town-
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I didn't have an early Urist townread. In fact, I scum read him until he was finally pushed to write up a case on me, and then I realized he was probably conf biasing town.In post 4515, Taly wrote:Kind of wonder about his early Urist townread, as he didn't engage much with Urists' posts about him and then Urist got IC'ed when people began to push him.-
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Hi I have a lot of thoughts but also a D&D session to do so I'll be back later tonight (5-6 hours) with more input, particularly on Brie + Moment + DT
I am a little concerned how easily people are forgetting RC had Brie/Moment as one of his near 100% T/T pairings. I'm not saying everyone has to agree with that, but the readiness with which people are willing to get rid of that pairing and forgetting about that strikes me as odd. May even be LHF precisely because of low activity. People who do scum read Moment/TheBrie in particular, could you go more in depth on those reads?
Sorry to just pop in like this but busy day. I have more to respond to and stuff to say that'll happen tonight. No more flips until I at least get to do that please-
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I originally gave DT a town read in #3418, which reading back, I believe are pretty weak reasons. The posts I outline in DT's ISO that I think are representative of towny thought processes... aren't that impressive? I may have too hastily lumped DT into my sudden strong PvT town read just due to DT's explanation in #3216 where he lowkey supported a PvT town. I'm not sure if that's something scum wouldn't point out that. The same goes for his other "towny" talking points.
#1265Gets referenced a lot when explaining town reads on the DT slot... and I don't get it? It's a bunch of gut/tone reads and then justification for not having to explain those.
This actually pings me quite a bit. Sure, you can be like "scum would never wanna be this brazen and admit this," but I don't think that's a strong enough argument.In post 1265, DoubtingThomas wrote:i also partly dont like explaining every single small things that come to my mind because
1) chances are they are wrong
2) chances are my own opinion of them change later on
3) they clog up the thread unnecessarily we honestly don't need every single detail of thoughts that I have
now, if you accept my love reqeust and we get a lovers chat, i can, of course, explain all the little things you want
1) Town shouldn't care about being wrong. Rather, they shouldn't care about that potential making them look suspicious. Scum care if they're caught being wrong and the associatives look bad for them.
2) Opinion changes are natural and one of the hardest things in the game for scum to fake with authenticity.
3) Sure... But there's a difference between clogging up the thread unnecessarily with every single detail and just saying "x is town" and "x is scum" off of pure gut and tone reads.
My problem with DT is that the things people point to when they say he looks towny are fairly lazy and not proactive. His entire ISO is waiting for people to come to him and interact with him. Very rarely does he take the initiative in pressuring people and it doesn't look like he's trying to proactively solve the game. There's a lot of "engage with me," but not a lot of engaging that's actually solving.
Stuff like this also makes me doubt the strength of town reads on him. I think people tend to like him for how genuine his reads seem, but their surface level enough that I don't see why it couldn't just as easily be faked by scum.In post 3232, DoubtingThomas wrote:
how the fuck am i a liar?In post 3228, Gamma Emerald wrote:Like, I actually am calling you a flat out liar about you claiming to come on at the same time as me.
i never fucking lie as either alignment
like as scum i would definitely scum read you for things i would scum read as town to begin with so i dont understand what you mean by calling me a liar lol
Look at his progression in the pre-dance too:
Spoiler:
I just don't like the progression from "maybe I should just sit out" to looking for reasons to town read one of SS or Gamma. This is the kind of desperation I don't like. I don't think it's genuine trying to figure out who among the last ladies is scummier or townies, it's just looking for reasons to town read one of them so he can look fine going to the dance with them.
I'm also concerned that DT isn't actually pushing anyone. Like SS/DT is probably gonna be the first or second lynch and yet... His big most recent wall post is just defending himself from Krazy's meta case. He isn't offering up alternatives, and idk what his scum reads even are atm. Gamma?
@Thomas,which pair is your preferred first lynch? And why haven't you made any efforts to push there? What are your reads rnow? Is SS strong town? Have you guys interacted in your PT at all?
@SS,I think you're pretty strongly town. What is your read on DT? Also, I know you're struggling because your scum reads are all strongly town read by someone. But who is your first lynch ideally if you had complete control? Me and Nancy? What if we both flipped town?
I really really don't think we should be lynching Moment/Brie first. I have Brie as pretty strongly town (something I should probably elaborate on when I have mroe sleep tomorrow) and while I don't have a good read on Moment, I really think the amount RC + Ank pushed for Moment!town + the fact Moment hasn't even posted yet means lynching there is a terrible idea. Obviously, inactivity is harmful either way, but we might be fucking up a really strong T/T pairing as Ank and RC thought without even letting Moment get her thoughts in. I feel like maybe scum saw Moment/Brie as a threat pre-dance and are now trying to quickly dispatch of them.
There's also the fact that the reads there feel... Pretty lackluster? Nancy can't elaborate on her Brie read, Gamma's scum reading Moment for... not answering some question 30 pages ago. I forget what else. It's just scaring me how this pairing is the first being pushed after RC and Ank died. At the very least, it shouldn't be the first flip imo.
VOTE: DT-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Hey sorry, I should have explained better. I know you really can't elaborate for good reason, it's more as a whole the reasons for pushing Brie/Moment (particularly from Gamma) seem weak. Yours may not be, but unfortunately it's hard for me to be sure because you can't really explain it. Didn't mean to misconstrue youIn post 4618, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Please don’t lump me in with any of this. Moment’s absence is definitely hurting the game, we can’t ignore that fact. There is only a little over 5 days left! And no, I can’t elaborate on Brie, because as I already told you in our PT, I don’t want to get into trouble. I’m kind of upset that you seem to have jumped to the wrong conclusion. Sure, I absolutely could elaborate on it but I don’t know how to do that without being in violation of site rules. Yes, it’s extremely frustrating but not wanting to risk a ban is /= to lacking reasons. Whenever I say in any game ever, that I can’t elaborate or discuss anything, that is ALWAYS what I mea-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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+1In post 4635, Taly wrote:Also, I don't think I want a Moment+TheBrie lynch right now at all.
I want to reread Moment, and I think TheBrie is town.