Guns & Roses IV [Game Over]

[DonCorleone]

I think that lilith’s reaction may be slightly clearing though

[DonCorleone]

That didn't really answer my question, did it?

Do you think that all of MariaR/farside/lillith/DonC/ABR are town?

I don't know, of course.

I definitely think it's possible.

I’ve also been wondering if this is why S_S was killed. He was doing a really good job of dissuading TvT fights yesterday but there was still plenty of tension there. I think scum benefit a lot from killing him if they want to exploit those tensions and don’t want S_S there to cool things down

[DonCorleone]

I read back through and noticed that she was on pretty much every single wagon after it became viable, plus I thought her turnaround on me was fucking awful and after thinking about it I was of the opinion that it was faked to justify getting on my wagon

[DonCorleone]

Can we lynch one of eyestott/vecna and have icon shoot the other one?

[DonCorleone]

You've played with me a bit I assume if you've meta'd me so you know by now everyone gets 'worried' about my slot.

I mean yes, true, but for good reason lol

[DonCorleone]

I want you to be town really bad Maria, partly for game reasons and partly for out of game reasons, but I am worried the *wanting* you to be town is interfering with my ability to read you which, if totally honest, is pretty terrible at the best of times.

I also don’t know how applicable meta is here because I think we’ve gotten along pretty well this game which I think has only normally happened on my main when you’ve been scum, but idk if me being on an alt here just let us start from a point that wasn’t you disliking me and that meant that this is what playing with you is normally like when there’s not any prior history there

[DonCorleone]

Are you townreading vecna?

[DonCorleone]

And if so: why?

[DonCorleone]

Lilith is a TR for you too right?

[DonCorleone]

Oh, I forgot that

So it’s basically you TR farside plus the ICs, correct?

I don’t hate your earlier solve

[DonCorleone]

I think the one I was thinking of was (eyestott, vecna, Lilith)

[DonCorleone]

Push come to shove I TR Maria and farside on top of the IC gang

Which means 3/5 of (chk, vecna, votato, eyestott, Lilith) are scum

I still kind of think that scum are more likely to have both been on but now that I’m writing it down I’m not sure I can justify why that is. I kind of doubt still that all the scum were on, so I think there’s almost certainly 1 in (vecna, votato)

[DonCorleone]

And if it is votato and not vecna who’s scum then yeah, I don’t hate (eyestott, chk) as partners

[DonCorleone]

There’s a lot of circumstantial shit making me paranoid about Maria — the fact that the other major wagon was on town, that the diversion to Knightmare last minute was so easy, that firebringer was both scumreading her p hard and tunnelling her, the fact that she’s been an absolute pleasure to play with

But goddamn I can’t shake the pocket yet if that’s what it is

[DonCorleone]

I kinda think you deliberately bullshitted the “ABR AND DC COULD BE SCUMBUDDIES GUYZ” thing to falll back on “scum!me wouldn’t have put myself in that position” and it’s the same thing you’re doing with getting a scumteam member to claim gun “if I were scum a teammate would have claimed!”

[DonCorleone]

UNVOTE: — my opinion hasn’t changed but I can’t remember what VC is and I don’t want this to get too high yet

[DonCorleone]

What’s your solve vecna?

[DonCorleone]

I think my other likely solves would be (eyestott, vecna, chkflip) (eyestott, votato, Lilith) (eyestott, votato, chkflip)

Can anyone think of any reasons why any of those teams don’t work?

[DonCorleone]

I know youre probably not gonna believe this,

Well hey, you got one thing right!

[DonCorleone]

Vecna, am i gonna be reading a scum PT postgame where you’re yelling at eyestott to CC and he’s refusing

Because that would be lowkey hilarious given the posts you’ve been making this dayphase

[DonCorleone]

Okay, but you’re not giving me an actual solve, you’re giving me who might be in it and who’s conditional on being in it

Which 3 names right now do you think are most likely to end the game if we lynched/shot them all back to back?

[DonCorleone]

The funny part is, if you hadnt pulled those lines about the masculinities and shit this game probably wouldve gone totally different and been so simple.

Because understandably you really want the game to have me as scum now

“Those lines”

You mean those very factual points about how players disproportionately sheep the shoutiest/loudest players, who are disproportionately men, who are disproportionately overconfident in their reads even when wrong and who are disproportionately likely to stick to their tunnel and not reconsider in light of additional evidence

Yes, I’m sure gender has absolutely nothing to do with it

[DonCorleone]

I have no idea what you mean by “understandably you really want the game to have me as scum now” incidentally. I don’t “want” the game to have you as anything, I *want* to correctly figure out your alignment

[DonCorleone]

I wanna hear what everyone else thinks vecna’s alignment is

Am I tunnelling here or is he as scummy as I think?

[DonCorleone]

@icon especially, I’m expecting more from you now that you’re an IC young dragon

[DonCorleone]

I mean I think it’s a lot more that you wanted me lynched and were looking for a reason to justify your vote which conveniently presented itself in the form of claiming that my points about toxic masculinity were some form of bullshit/emotional manipulation/whatever

But that’s why I want to know how other people perceived your whole take on that

[DonCorleone]

what about vecna/eyestot/ one of lillith and maria?

I mean yeah, i just posted the version with Lilith as the third like a page ago

[DonCorleone]

He said that Lilith has been tunnelling him but I haven’t checked to see if it’s true yet

[DonCorleone]

Right, I’m leaving to give the thread some breathing room and let others talk as despite what we’re honestly my best intentions for this game, I’ve still ended up hitting my third page of ISO already

[DonCorleone]

VOTE: eyestott

[DonCorleone]

hammer on vecna is a scumclaim

[DonCorleone]

I don’t mind if you scumread me, I just hope it’s for stuff here.

I don’t scumread you though. I actually hard, hard townread you, I’m just worried I’m wrong because it always feels shitty when I hard townread scum.

Is there like a law of mafia or something that says “the greater the townread on a player known to be good at scumplay, the greater the paranoia you will feel”?

[DonCorleone]

I have zero interest in doing Maria today. I think she’s town, I think she’s played like town, and I’m not supporting her wagon or voting for her over players that have played less like town. If she’s scum then so be it, she’s played really well and I’d only be voting her out of some sense of paranoia.

[DonCorleone]

I think eyestott figures in nearly every team I have, I want him to die.

[DonCorleone]

One could say much the same thing about eyestott in terms of being tricky to lynch

Yeah, I shot farside

[DonCorleone]

It’s worth noting that in GnR III there were two competing D1 wagons on town that contributed to the scum win. So I don’t think Maria is locked in as scum from being the CW to cakez

[DonCorleone]

I’m less confident on Lilith than someone like eyestott though, I’d rather have Icon shoot Lilith at night

[DonCorleone]

Idk why chkflip is town

[DonCorleone]

What was the VC like when vecna hit L-1?

[DonCorleone]

VoteCount 2.3

Vecna [3] - farside22, MariaR, lilith2013
votato [1] - chkflip
lilith2013 [1] - votato

Not Voting [5]

- Iconeum, Vecna, eyestott, Albert B. Rampage, DonCorleone

With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-05-12 15:35:31)

Was it this only eyestott and then votato got on?

[DonCorleone]

Vecna (5) — farside, maria, Lilith, eyestott, votato
Votaro (1) — chkflip
Eyestott (2) — ABR, DonCorleone

Not voting (2) — icon, vecna

[DonCorleone]

If chkflip isn’t scum then it means that either all 3 scum committed on the push, or vecna is scum who was being double bussed

[DonCorleone]

I think that’s potentially unlikely, that we have a pool of exactly (farside, Lilith, Maria, votato, eyestott) but IF that is it I think there is almost certainly scum in (eyestott/votato) for when and how they got on, and because I don’t see a (farside, Lilith, Maria) team

[DonCorleone]

That’s cool, I gotta go do some shit, I’ll check back later

I actually think chkflip looks p scummy atm, and think he makes a lot of sense with vecna!town, if that’s what it is. He’s hard defending for the towncred once he’s proved right, but I don’t think there’s necessarily any reason to think vecna looked as town as he was calling it as early as he was

Overall disagree that vecna is a low information lynch too

[DonCorleone]

Maria, could you vote with me on eyestott please?

[DonCorleone]

It has occurred to me that farside and eyestott are unlikely to be aligned. I don’t think it makes sense for farside to preemptively out herself as a N1 rose only to then not have her buddy CC me, especially given ABR’s desire at that point to get back into his deathtunnel on me

I’m somewhat skeeved by the people saying “oh, not CCing is so suboptimal for scum” because I’m not sure it is that suboptimal? One scum flip makes it possible to start looking for associations from the flipped scum and can blow a game wide open. By not making it that obvious, *yes* the pool is bigger but there’s more potential to keep trying to shift the lynch onto the weakest member from the scumteam. Also, icon being a N2 gun meant we weren’t lynching him, so icon would have a very likely scum shot on the CC if I was lynched today after a CC (I guess he might have chosen ABR, but I don’t think he would have).

Whereas this way scum has 4 targets to try and shift the lynch onto of which they may only need 2 to win if we’re not already in mylo-if-icon-misses-tonight. And now scum is set to just kill guns as guaranteed kills for the rest of the game/because we’re ICs which means no questions will be asked about “why is X still alive” if we get down to like 4p mylo

[DonCorleone]

@iconeum would you vote eyestott with me please?

[DonCorleone]

I think my current solve is (eyestott, chkflip, votato/vecna)

We may not be in mylo which we should know tomorrow if the game isn’t over, meaning we’d still have 1 mislynch left I think

I can’t get over the idea that S_S may have been killed not just because he was eminently reasonable but also because he correctly perceived that there is not necessarily a scum in (farside, Lilith, Maria)

[DonCorleone]

Maria, I really want to talk to you next time you’re around about wagon formations on D1 because I think my main concern regarding you being potential scum is gamestate based and I’d like to hear your thoughts on that

[DonCorleone]

Vecna link me to your most recent scumgames

[DonCorleone]

*please

[DonCorleone]

....you’ve only rolled scum once a year since you joined?

[DonCorleone]

Hey Lilith how would you feel about voting for eyestott?

[DonCorleone]

I’m still thinking it’s vecna tbh

[DonCorleone]

Man, S_S is gonna be fucking bummed if Lilith flips scum

[DonCorleone]

I’m not hammering at 6 days to deadline while there’s a wagon composition of (ABR, farside, chk, votato, vecna)

[DonCorleone]

I’m still thinking it’s vecna tbh

You actually went through my scumgames and still think so?

I only had a preliminary skim (planning to go through properly when I have a couple hours free) but basically confirmed to me my impression that your scumgame is very solid and that you don’t have any activity/effort tell as scum — ie you trying to town it up isn’t clearing for you

[DonCorleone]

I’d rather lynch eyestott and then let icon vig you tbh vecna

[DonCorleone]

I feel better about eyestott than I do about you but I think you’re a liability that there’s a reasonable chance I’m never going to feel great on either way, so I’d quite like to just remove you as a variable

[DonCorleone]

NKA is trash.

[DonCorleone]

Can we stop trying to fucking lynch with over 6 days left when one of the ICs has made all of about 10 posts today

[DonCorleone]

I literally did

[DonCorleone]

UNVOTE: — my opinion hasn’t changed but I can’t remember what VC is and I don’t want this to get too high yet

[DonCorleone]

Fine, then we know where you're stood, ease off and let's wait for icon to get into thread and give his reads on shit once he's caught up

also, I'd like to see anything resembling solving from chkflip before the day ends

[DonCorleone]

There’s a couple of things I’m waiting for you to respond to, I’ll be around but not necessarily all the time

[DonCorleone]

I’ll be around more tomorrow

I still wanna lynch eyestott

[DonCorleone]

If all the slots making content are scum and all the slots not doing shit are town then I’d rather have that cleared up today if it’s not GG than have to wifom about whether eyestott is scum or just not here because IRL

[DonCorleone]

Plus icon still has his shot even if we’re wrong today

[DonCorleone]

Someone (maybe me) should meta votato against this now that it’s over

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=82731

[DonCorleone]

I’d axtually be fine with lynching votato too now I think of it, and then icon shoots vecna if he flips scum

Although that does leave us in the problem previously mentioned if votato flips town

[DonCorleone]

Too many slots in this game unable to town themselves is the problem

I kind of thought chkflip was clear for a while for how he was behaving and then remembered that’s just how he behaves

[DonCorleone]

Frankly, if Maria is scum she’s done a better job of being obvtown than any town slot so I think I’m okay losing to her in the event she is scum

@maria the thing that was bugging me was that it feels kinda like you’re scum from a wagonomics POV — cakez was CW to you and he was town, and then the wagon on Knightmare was super easy and really fast. Followed by the firebringer kill at night, who was fairly hard scumreading you and tunnelled (yes, yes, I know NKA is trash) but like all together it doesn’t tell a great story, you feel me?

P.s. hope you feel better soon and it’s nothing serious

[DonCorleone]

ICON CAN YOU PLEASE PUT SOME EFFORT IN TO TRY AND SOLVE HERE

[DonCorleone]

I am actively waiting to try and jam with you, dragonboi. This normally goes well but I need you actually in thread, caught up, and engaged. Sorry I’ve posted so much but if you wanna win then I need you around and helpful

[DonCorleone]

(Vecna, votato, Lilith/eyestott)?

[DonCorleone]

Like. I think votato and vecna may be scum. But the eyestott and chkflip slots are both terrible. And conf town is seeing something in Lilith along with my top TR and a softclear thinking that’s scum.

[DonCorleone]

fwiw: the SS kill actually seems a bit strange. SS wasnt widely townread was he? that suggests that maybe he saw something he shouldnt have. his townreads were: farside, lilith (although lilith was just based on the fact that she recruited him to play and he didnt think shed immediately tunnel him). his scumreads were: adijkuhsatliuga. is that worth reading into?

Vote eyestott and find out

[DonCorleone]

I also kind of want to trust S_S on lilith

[DonCorleone]

Talk to me on: Lilth Farside Votato

I don't believe lilith recruits me to join this game with her and then rolls scum and immediately tunnels me right out of the gate.

Farside has been one of the people actually causing the game to keep moving. She's been making pushes that could backfire and she doesn't really seem to care about making enemies.

Votato, when pressured, didn't get defensive, and instead apologized and tried to double down on their efforts (749), which is an unlikely reaction for newbscum to have (newbscum would probably assume that the reasons they were getting pressured were real scumtells and flail or OMGUS).

[DonCorleone]

It seems like don is in the business of letting people who play well win.

I'm in the business of winning.

I’d have less of an objection to following you here if I had respect for your reads *shrug*

Pro tip: if you want people to have respect for your reads don’t incorrectly death tunnel them D1 and make a bunch of pronouncements on how sure you are that they’re scum

[DonCorleone]

S_S i hope you’re reading this because I’m sheeping you on that take on lilith

Talking of

@lilith if you don’t wanna die then you should vote eyestott with me and MariaR

[DonCorleone]

I’d rather lose to scum!maria than mislynch town!maria with the game as it currently is

Call that whatever you like

[DonCorleone]

[DonCorleone]

I mean talk as much shit as you like, I’m not the one who made statements like the following:

[DonCorleone]

Why not vote DC today? I think its pretty spot on that the most active players, most helpful looking goody two shoe heres my scheduled content post with quotes and explanations and soft hesitations are the ones trying hardest to look town because theyre scum.

[DonCorleone]

Don't be salty you got caught, sir. Your game was tight enough to slip past most players' scumdar. I'm vigging you tonight and we can chat in the post-game tomorrow.

[DonCorleone]

Nice. You sound almost as pro-town as me

Did you ask DC to vote me in your scum pt?

(Addressed to the now confirmed town SirCakez)

[DonCorleone]

I got 4 votes on me and I correctly predicted who the scum were so that the townies unvoted me and DC/Cakez vanished for 2 hours in daychat and came back together deciding to deploy a scummy counter-OMGUS "hes town but so wrong he will cost the whole town the game so I will gun him N1" story, I'm sorry, this is serious, serious obvscum.

[DonCorleone]

Dude dude dude dude… the way DC has approached this game is not from a town mindset, it is cherrypicking things town people say and do and mixing and matching it with an overarching playstyle and philosophy that precludes saying things like "hes town but I will vig him N1 to help the town", the entire horseplay is meant to divert a lynch on DC at all cost. They will say anything, do anything, unvote me and vote farside or anyone else in this town to save DC. Their only objective: distraction and defusal.

[DonCorleone]

I'm sort of a leading expert on emotional appeals.

Let us not forget this classic gem!

[DonCorleone]

The point is — you’re now confirmed to have been dead wrong despite proclaiming your confidence in your reads and your team here, there, and everywhere.

There’s literally no reason for any town to respect your current solve any more than they should have respected your (confirmed to be deeply incorrect) solve yesterday.

My reads may not have been perfect but at least I’m honest about my confidence level in them, which is that I’m mixed but currently think eyestott is the best lynch for long term play, vecna is probably best for the short term but leaves scum with more highly viable mislynch options IF the game doesn’t end tonight.

The posts above are a reminder to every other town slot of why you’re not a good leader and why they shouldn’t follow you on Lilith

[DonCorleone]

I’d rather lose to scum!maria than mislynch town!maria with the game as it currently is

Call that whatever you like

I call it out-of-game. It has no bearing on us who you rather lose to. Zero. We all want to win and it seems like you care more about who you don't lose to. Have you always been this selfish, or do you just completely let go when you use the alter ego?

[DonCorleone]

I see you’ve at least finally stopped claiming to have any idea who I am. Maybe you can learn some humility if you keep trying real hard!

[DonCorleone]

Oh, also — scum may not have shot in the guns because they were hoping that we’d all end up shooting each other meaning that today would have been mylo for sure. Idk if anyone covered that yet as an explanation for the kills being where they were. But if scum thought icon was a N1 gun and that one of ABR and I would shoot the other it fits in without the need for a much more complicated plan behind not targeting the guaranteed kills

[DonCorleone]

Stop acting like you think I’m not because you dislike my approach then

[DonCorleone]

I’ve been very clear that I don’t scumread Maria. If I’m wrong about that and I lose to her, I’m okay with it. It’s not me saying “I think maria is scum but I’m going to not push her anyway”

[DonCorleone]

I don’t feel confident enough that any of the active and posting slots is scum over any of the bad slots who are not producing content. If I have to choose between flipping one or the other here I’d rather try to do a lower content slot so it can’t be mislynch bait in mylo/lylo tomorrow, even if it’s a gamble that the game doesn’t end tonight.

So far I’m unpersuaded that Lilith is scum. If I change my mind when I’m planning to try to read through the game so far tomorrow I might change my mind. You going off on how I’m an egotistical bastard isn’t going to have that effect, regardless of the truth value or not of that statement

[DonCorleone]

I would probably lynch votato with you pending reread but I’m not doing Lilith today unless she seems egregiously scummy on a second pass. I’m not doing maria today in any circumstances.

[DonCorleone]

I think that broadly makes sense and doesn’t fit with your theory that Maria or Lilith are scum, seeing as they have the calibre to CC today regardless. I think that model of the game is supportive of newer or less confident/engaged scum (which may also be clearing for vecna, come to mention it)

[DonCorleone]

I don’t necessarily want to lynch scum D1, I want to use it to try to create a game where scum have the least chance of winning by lylo or mylo. If that involves mislynching lynchbait, so be it. If you still have lynchbait problems by lylo then it’s your own fault for not dealing with it earlier

[DonCorleone]

Abstract you, I’m not trying to start up again

[DonCorleone]

I don’t think that Lilith or Maria don’t think that if they were to CC that you wouldn’t resume your tunnel on me, especially given my missing nightkill.

I think you have a point about (vecna, votato, eyestott) being unlikely, unless vecna thought he was going down and told them to/he knew that a rapid wagon would be perceived as him being town.

I think there could be scum in (Lilith, Maria) but I don’t feel confident in there definitely being a scum in there. And I’m concerned that flipping one means the other may get flipped after in which case it’s GG

I do feel pretty confident in there being scum in (eyestott, votato) so if I’m going to guess in a dyad where if one is wrong the other is more likely scum, I feel more confident in the latter and that’s why I want to go there today

[DonCorleone]

I don’t think that (eyestott, votato, chkflip) is that unlikely either. They’re the slots that are collectively the least interested in solving the game imo

[DonCorleone]

Unless it’s like (Maria, Lilith, vecna) then there has to be scum in that trio of (eyestott, votato, chkflip) right? I’m curten of the mind that 2/3 is more likely in the second group than the first, so I’d rather go there today.

[DonCorleone]

But like if scum isn’t vecna then it wouldn’t be leaving it to people incapable, it would be leaving it to icon and farside and vecna too if he’s town after we’re dead. I know icon has been quiet but he is actually often remarkably capable, albeit his accuracy goes down with people who he knows too well, but I don’t think that applies to anyone here.

Like I said, I’m planning to reread after I’ve slept, but basically it comes down to where I feel confident at the moment. I think if we lynch eyestott and he flips town then shooting votato will give us a scumflip. Whereas idk that if we lynch Lilith shooting Maria will give us a scumflip. And icon shooting someone who is scum (if we mislynch today) is the only thing that guarantees that it’s not game over if scum do have 2 guns left and didn’t miss a shot or take a rose

[DonCorleone]

do i not get credit for trying to gamesolve here?

You would if I believed it

[DonCorleone]

That’s hammer

If it flips town shoo votato @icon

[DonCorleone]

Shoot*

[DonCorleone]

Well rip me and ABR I guess

[DonCorleone]

That’s a very, very scum motivated hammer as I’d been talking about how I was going to read through today and look at Lilith and eyestott again

Probably (votato, Lilith + 1) if eyestott flips town here

That’s still fairly likely as a team even if eyestott is scum

And I wouldn’t trust that vecna wouldn’t hard defend his buddy if they think they can win tomorrow (which would make sense given that they only needed to not get lynched today and mislynch one more time tomorrow)

[DonCorleone]

Oh fuck, i did not realize it was l-1

Don’t trust this unicorn folks!

[DonCorleone]

Especially after the while shebang he did before where he was like “I checked super carefully before voting to make sure I wasn’t hammering”

I can’t remember where that was but it’s in his ISO

[DonCorleone]

Like if you’re scum and me and ABR are talking about compromising onto your lynch and you see the chance to get a hammer off first, you take it right? That just makes sense, it gives you an extra day and your lynch isn’t guaranteed

[DonCorleone]

yes it is. But here i only saw four votes. Well i guess I'm the lynch tomorrow

Nope, you’re the shot tonight, dw

[DonCorleone]

My dragonboi will do me a solid and shoot you, i have faith

[DonCorleone]

Also, someone make sure maria answers my gamestate questions if I die

[DonCorleone]

I wish I could townbin vecna but I can’t

Think the game is probably gonna come down to choosing correctly in vecna vs someone else tbh

[DonCorleone]

(Votato, Lilith +1 vecna/chkflip) if this flips town

If it’s scum then idk tbh, maybe still votato bussing for the cred?

[DonCorleone]

Guess that means the women in this game have done a better job of playing like town then!

[DonCorleone]

Chkflip is also an awful slot tbf

[DonCorleone]

Lol, it’s like I said, there are too many slots this game that haven’t been able to obvtown enough to make the game solvable

[DonCorleone]

Like how tf are you meant to sort in (chkflip, votato) if there isn’t scum in there

[DonCorleone]

Votato and chkflip both need to die it’s just a matter of who dies first ie in the night

[DonCorleone]

I mean I would be townreading you if your scumgames weren’t indicative of you being a very strong scumplayer, you having weaknesses BEFORE pressure game on (ie before you needed to town it up, something scum!you is able to do when being pressured) and you hard defending scum for like half the game

[DonCorleone]

*in a situation where there’s potentially a lot of incentive for scum to hard defend

[DonCorleone]

Vig votato or chkflip

[DonCorleone]

oh for fuck's sake

[DonCorleone]

why go for the rose wincon goddamnit

[DonCorleone]

@icon who'd you shoot champ?

[DonCorleone]

just fyi to all the 3 possible scum slots -- I have every intention of lynching purely based on your play up to today and have no plans to talk to any of you today because I think it's more likely I'll be swayed to not voting scum than not voting town

[DonCorleone]

tbf, I actually had the thought that all the scum was probably on wagon yesterday while we were in night which would mean (Maria, votato)

[DonCorleone]

Maria what night rose are you claiming?

[DonCorleone]

@lilith what night rose are you claiming?

[DonCorleone]

I have strong (votato, Maria) suspicions but we'll see

[DonCorleone]

the game is over today anyway, right?

[DonCorleone]

So you think it's (Maria, lilith) then ABR?

[DonCorleone]

I think the game probably makes more sense if the scum plan was to shoot roses and to then only need enough credit to get through today as insurance because of the plan to kill the final rose and win. So I think it's more likely that you and votato decided to both be on wagon in order to then push lilith today, which is exactly what you've both done

[DonCorleone]

chkflip, who was

Town

Night 1 Rose

, was

killed

in

Night 2

.

farside22, who was

Town

Night 1 Rose

, was

killed

in

Night 2

.

Vecna, who was

Town

Night 1 Rose

, was

killed

in

Night 2

.

why tf did you all take N1 goddamnit

[DonCorleone]

VOTE: Lilith

That's all I need to hear I suppose. Although having to convince ABR will prove to be...yeah

why not votato?

[DonCorleone]

ehh, like I said I'm not actually going to listen to anything any of the three of you say to me today because you're all so incentivised to sell me yourself as town. I'm just going to look at what you've done in the game up to this point, make a decision on who I think is town and then try to convince the other ICs to go with me. But I think we're probably losing anyway tbh which just kinda sucks

I think you're my least preferred lynch today Maria, because if I'm right and you are scum I'd be happiest for you to still be alive tomorrow even if we get it right today and the final rose dies tonight

[DonCorleone]

I also lowkey think you might be spewing that you killed vecna and that's why you're upset that ABR is pushing you as scum while modelling that as the vig kill

[DonCorleone]

so you think there's only 1 scum in (lilith, Maria)?

[DonCorleone]

it's all just WIFOM though isn't it Maria, because you're smart enough to make it look like a slip like that intentionally just to argue that you're smart enough to not make a slip like that in the first place. I also don't think perspective slipping has anything to do with intelligence in an either in or out of game sense

[DonCorleone]

I'm really bummed if you are scum though, I really wanted you to be town

[DonCorleone]

idk it'll be interesting talking to you in the postgame either way

[DonCorleone]

I intend to think about the game while imagining that each of you is scum, and then again imagining each of you is town, to try and decide which of all those scenarios makes sense

[DonCorleone]

I think I'm lynching votato today regardless

[DonCorleone]

as if scum won't just let the day time out and take their free win from a no lynch

[DonCorleone]

Lmao as if you’re going to behave like your dumbass death tunnel on me wasn’t the thing that fundamentally undermined the earlier D1 wagons

[DonCorleone]

Ah fuck it I think we lose anyway

If ABR wants to be a baby about it, he can be

VOTE: lilith

L-1

[DonCorleone]

We may as well just accelerate this

If Lilith is scum she can self hammer and we find out if the town in maria/votato was lying about N3 rose

If she’s not scum then she’s already got both scum on so she can’t be quickhammered

[DonCorleone]

If it’s not maria/votato then whoever is town there should just concede if they’re not actually N3

[DonCorleone]

Because scum is literally obliged to target you so there’s no way for you to wifom them whatsoever

[DonCorleone]

sorry chicky

It was a good vig regardless, chkflip was an awful slot

[DonCorleone]

Btw vecna I’m blaming this one on you if votato ends up being scum

[DonCorleone]

let's trade votes

i'll vote RCE and you vote conspire and jake

wrong game?

[DonCorleone]

UNVOTE:

why do you think it's votato/Maria?

[DonCorleone]

so icon do you wanna do this or what??

[DonCorleone]

hmm, although I'm not sure

[DonCorleone]

VoteCount 1.1

votato [5] - Firebringer, votato, eyestott, Albert B. Rampage, chkflip
Something_Smart [3] - lilith2013, Knightmare491, SirCakez
chkflip [2] - DonCorleone, farside22
Firebringer [1] - Vecna
SirCakez [1] - Paragon

Not Voting [2]

- Iconeum, Something_Smart

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2020-05-02 23:35:31)

I’m on board with a chkflip wagon. farside is right, I’m tunneling and that’s my b. I’ll revisit SS later.

VOTE: chkflip

what do you think about this icon?

[DonCorleone]

I'm not sure

do you think scum has played well this game?

[DonCorleone]

well my point is that if scum have played well then there's the ole rule of thumb that you don't Lynch the most obviously scummy looking person which is prob Maria at this point

[DonCorleone]

what was your lilith TR based on?

[DonCorleone]

Maria seems like the obv lynch but also seems very aligned with votato based on stuff like how they entered today

there was also this post from paragon that seemed out of place

eyestott! Are you reading up articles on townplay or are you ready to solve the game?

because it follows on from a. discussion not involving eyestott at all

[DonCorleone]

VOTE: votato

Obvscum

It is a legitmate vote for scum.

I am on this winwagon until the end, or until I sheep a better case.

This looks really scummy!

Why is he obvscum?

Enlighten us

.

obviously both lilith and MariaR!slot defended votato on D1

[DonCorleone]

eyestott! Are you reading up articles on townplay or are you ready to solve the game?

well if both decided to vote votato then ABR can choose between voting with us or throwing the game so actually he has no say in this if we decide he doesn't

[DonCorleone]

didn't mean to quote paragon there but okay

[DonCorleone]

lol no, ABR ruled that out when he said, and I quote "The second you put a vote on votato today, I will vote lilith/maria and its up to ico to decide the lynch and one of the scum to bus their buddy."

[DonCorleone]

well let's see

Donny, do you think you have had a bad game?

Mixed. I think that a lot of the shit threw my reads off and I think a lot of slots were pretty atrocious at looking town this game, but I do think that eyestott wouldn't have happened yesterday if I hadn't stayed on it. If it's (Maria/lilith) I've had a bad game.

[DonCorleone]

yeah, that's what I'm wondering. but it might be because they think they win tonight and the N3 is fake + that they have good odds of winning tomorrow

[DonCorleone]

icon, I straight up am not sure. I keep shifting my teams in my head. I think scum have played well because I can see the argument for associations between any of the remaining slots being partners based on early to mid D1 interactions

[DonCorleone]

If Maria is scum she pocketed Don.

yeah, this is accurate

[DonCorleone]

votato has played scummy as shit and I'm struggling to see beyond that. I'm giving a fair amount of weight to vecna locking him as town otherwise I think I'd be locked on him +1 of the other two

[DonCorleone]

Yes, I read your D1 summary, I'm working my way through D1 on my own to see if I agree with the version you outlined

[DonCorleone]

I haven't played with votato before but him always being scummy as shit just means he has a lot of cover for being scum. He's essentially sandbagging his town game which is ick but I acknowledge doesn't automatically make him scum

[DonCorleone]

icon how many times do I have to say that I'm not sure what my solve is yet!

[DonCorleone]

like that's the exact reason why I wanna talk to you about what YOU think instead of you saying that you wanna get me and ABR to work together and then sheep us

like no, you're a strong player, I want you to put the time and effort in that this game deserves and contribute your unique PoV

[DonCorleone]

Okay, DonSirloin is my strongest townread

I wonder if the whole scumplan was just pocketing me for the entire game

[DonCorleone]

well, not the whole scumplan obviously, but if that was always a mid-longterm plan

[DonCorleone]

she defended me when you were tunnelling me on D1

[DonCorleone]

I think it's probably (Maria, lilith) but unsure

[DonCorleone]

I think the only reason ico and I are alive is because scum need Don to win and it would look too convenient if Don was the only IC alive with two scum kills.

huh?

[DonCorleone]

I mean I think we're pretty clearly all alive because scum have gone for a "kill all the roses" strat

[DonCorleone]

are you aware that what you're doing looks identical to openwolfing votato

[DonCorleone]

why doesn't votato vote Maria here?

[DonCorleone]

from his pov they're both confscum right? so why doesn't he just go with the person who there's finally a conftown voting?

[DonCorleone]

saying things that are very openly scummy and/or from the pov of a scum that's won and is going through the formalities

[DonCorleone]

Ignore their activities today like you said they would do

yeah, this is fair though

[DonCorleone]

no, no, I'm saying that what votato is saying is very similar to openwolfing

[DonCorleone]

someone hammer pls. And scum, don't forget to shoot me. Leave abr alive for tomorrow.

like this whole line just sounds scummy as fuck

[DonCorleone]

it's so unnecessary and performative

[DonCorleone]

Boop VOTE: maria

[DonCorleone]

Everyone vote fast night ffs

[DonCorleone]

If votato isn’t trolling which honestly I wouldn’t put past him

[DonCorleone]

Also if Maria is scum and flips N3 gun then I think Lilith is prob lockscum

If ur town Maria then sorry I lost faith:X

[DonCorleone]

If you flip town here votato I might seriously file a complaint against you for intentionally sandbagging your game

[DonCorleone]

Like the only way I’m gonna be okay with how you’ve played will be if you are scum

[DonCorleone]

hey fakegod, wanna say anything about the regular attacks on my personal character in an out of game sense or are those reserved for telling people to stop masturbating over themselves?

[DonCorleone]

I hammered Maria because I’d decided it was you and her so playing it safe and targeting votato was the right choice

GG scum

[DonCorleone]

Well, I guess I still have no idea if I can get along in games with Maria where she’s not scum then