Power Brokers: Game of Thrones - Game Over

[Auro]

First

[Auro]

Nobles townbloc? Let's move our armies to the Capital and take thr Court Official's powers!

[Auro]

You can pledge your support to me.

[Auro]

He's the Noble you deserve, but I'm the Noble you need right now.

[Auro]

Wow. Lamist AND no RVS vote!

[Auro]

Don't @ me. If I squint really hard, Tywin Lannister looks like Jon Snow.

Huh? My Flavor was Gandalf.

[Auro]

You correctly deduce that my post was not indicative of an actual belief... so what actually matters - what I post or what I believe?

Would you always take posts at face value even while knowing they're not meant to be serious?

[Auro]

So what you actually have a problem with is that you feel my saying that was intending to pocket everyone in my group, and not because I find the idea of lolbloccing and staging a coup hypothetically funny?

[Auro]

You can pledge your support to me.

How do you read this post? Does this not, in a similar fashion, appear scummy - in that I am asking someone who has no reason to trust me to pledge support to me?

[Auro]

No. You're overcomplicating it. I just think your initial thought was "I'm in a group" and it's more likely scum would be excited by that and town would want to figure out what it means .Is post 36 to me?

My thought was "My group can stage a coup and grab power and that is funny", not simply "I am in a group". Does that change anything for you?

Yes, 36 is to you.

My instinct anyway is that we work under the assumption of random distributions in any case, and the setup is designed to give scum maneuvering power in any distribution.

I'm town dude, you can bet on it.

Does anyone have experience playing with votato? I have a question.

Yes, what is the question?

[Auro]

Pagetop :3

[Auro]

Yes if he is an alt of RadiantCowbells!

I know who you are!

[Auro]

No. That's pretty much what I read your thought to be.

Sure, but I am telling you what I actually thought. Does this change your read on me, or do you believe I'm lying?

@Ygritte: I saw a two-decades-old movie recently and loved it.

[Auro]

My group can stage a coup and grab power and that is funny

I don't believe you think that scum is likelier to find the idea of a lol-coup funny when the same person was engaging in banter throughout page 1

VOTE: Kmd420

[Auro]

I could also lynch Shireen on policy. Apologies, Shireen, but unless you begin to contribute legitimate stances, I will always be fine with pl-ing you.

[Auro]

Because that's where I'd be once the game develops into seriousness.

Preview edit: You still don't understand why I voted you lol

... you did say I am likelier as scum to be excited at being in a group that can stage a coup, no? O.o

[Auro]

The group part yes. The joke about a coup is irrelevant.

I feel like the coup part was obviously relevant to why I found it exciting though? If I was in your group I wouldn't bother.

I don't see why it's irrelevant :$

[Auro]

Well, whenever I tried to take legitimate stances, I was ridiculed for them. So I don't do that anymore. I am only in this because it's GOT.

I promise not to ridicule you if you take stances.
If you don't provide stances, how will I townread you?

[Auro]

@Shireen: What about my desire to have people pledge to me right now?

[Auro]

You're ignoring the joke and also ignoring why the context behind the joke can shape my "first instinct" though

[Auro]

Sweet. Three more!

[Auro]

I'm a very important PR guys, don't lynch me

[Auro]

And Nobles are powerful.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum

[Auro]

I'm itching to self vote and see if someone lolhammers

[Auro]

@KMD: I read the mechanics before (altho I have a ton of questions I've yet to ask the mod), I found the idea of a rando Coup funny back then
I don't look for jokes, they just come to me

[Auro]

I townread Shireen

[Auro]

Would you pledge your support to me?

[Auro]

Stop bussing me buddy

[Auro]

Auro isn't bad

Yes, I'm not the bad guy.

[Auro]

something I feel comfortable with at the moment

What causes the discomfort - could you be more specific here?

[Auro]

Auro did you give any thought to that yet. Your insights would be invaluable to me.

I lazed out on my list of Qs, so not *much* mech thought. I'll do it today.

[Auro]

I wouldn't lynch Nero or Porkens today.

While yolo daykills are bad I don't think we need explicit democratic mandate on each one of them. The threat of daykills is something scum are forced to play around.

VOTE: Elena Fisher for generic unexplained stances.

[Auro]

While Ygritte isn't really scumhunting atm, knowing their main it's NAI for now.

Rubicon: Molla has quite a bit of previous experience with me, if that makes any difference.

[Auro]

I think his wanting me to be town is a little town-indicative actually, but I suppose "pretty null" cuts it.

I don't know the main so that doesn't help me any

Well, it's my personal stance anyway.

[Auro]

I'll give some advice to the scum team.

Shireen Baratheon is exactly the kind of person you'd want to night kill! She's unpredictable and by leaving her alive you leave her vote to ~random chance unless you specifically manipulate her, which town can see through. "Reasonable" players can be manipulated on logical grounds, but wildcards like her will always be risky. And since I townread her, I won't be lynching her anytime soon.

You're welcome!

[Auro]

The simple fact being that you're not comfortable with it...?
Focus is more on "generic" with lack of explanation (which could have been in the same timeframe) auxiliary.

[Auro]

But that's not my main gripe, no? It's that the particular stances you took looked unoriginal and scummy. If you had explained them, maybe I'd feel better about them - it's not the lack of explanation by itself that's scummy.

[Auro]

The simple fact being that you're not comfortable with it...?

And this is circular, unless I missed the "simple fact" and it's something else. Remind me?

[Auro]

Whose confident read are you sheeping?
What tangible fact gave discomfort to the idea of an Auro wagon?

[Auro]

I'm sorry but you're the only voter on Votato and I'm asking about reads in general anyway? I don't see the answer in your ISO of 9 posts.

I also don't see the reason for the discomfort. Perhaps "we have 5 days" could be what you're aiming at but I don't see that as a reason for discomfort.

So, please - treat me as the dumb person that I am with regards to questions Good night!

[Auro]

Hurts town too, it's a win-win

[Auro]

Not until claims. If I knew what everyone was, then I could start.

I actually know everyone's role. You're a Court Official, aren't you?
I'll tell you the rest if you pledge to me

[Auro]

1. My understanding is that Nobles have a guard AND a NPC 2nd-in-command, Power Brokers have only a NPC 2nd-in-command, and Court Officials neither of them. Yes?
2. The list of all locations is {Capital, 5 Noble Castles}, yes?
3. Can you categorize which actions are day actions and which ones are night actions?
4. A power broker can only make one action out of {Noble Actions + 2nd-in-command} actions, right? I cannot call the banners and also have a House Arrest done. Yes?
5. Do all second-in-command NPCs get to do {House Arrest, Recruit Ally, Secret Alliance, Escape Route}?
6. Is the existence of second-in-commands public? Do we know when someone's NPC dies, or is arrested?
7. Laying siege takes a total of 4 phases, correct? So if a Noble starts calling the banners D1, he would only be able to lay siege D4? [Fast+Slow+Fast]
8. Power Broker followers refer to their NPCs, correct?
9. Is a Household Guard counted as a second-in-command? Can a noble be assassinated without a second-in-command despite having a Guard?
10. Distract Court Official simply means roleblock one of them, correct?

A bunch of questions I had, some might have already been answered, but I'm putting this here anyway

[Auro]

Auro, you are awfully quiet...

Patience, my young Padawan.

[Auro]

Thanks for the prompt answers!

[Auro]

A few mech thoughts incoming in a bit

[Auro]

how do you have 45 posts and i can't remember a thing you've done?

Get checked for Amnesia?

[Auro]

Hey anyone looking for a safe haven is free at my castle, I have no intention of daykilling anyone residing there unless it's democratically agreed upon, you are safe

Yes^ people should pick random castles to go hide in, to thwart assassination plots. I think Nobles should unanimously agree not to kill their guests barring extreme circumstances.

[Auro]

@mod: If someone dies, do we know at whose castle they were staying?

[Auro]

Hey anyone looking for a safe haven is free at my castle, I have no intention of daykilling anyone residing there unless it's democratically agreed upon, you are safe

Yes^ people should pick random castles to go hide in, to thwart assassination plots. I think Nobles should unanimously agree not to kill their guests barring extreme circumstances.

Great! Then everyone who can travel should follow this, and probably switch up castles every day. The Nobles will individually know who's with them but shouldn't out anything

anywhere

even in PTs. That will make the game effectively Nightless.

We can have a couple of Court Officials checking flips, and a couple of them checking for Plot/Kidnaps. This should make the game somewhat Nightless with flips.

I don't think it's ever beneficial for town to make use of assassination/disband guard/take hostage etc mechanics.

[Auro]

im gonna hide in NC's castle.

Unless this is misdirection WIFOM, never reveal where you're going to hide. Scum have a Spy NPC who can carry out assassination attempts, but provided that they know where the player is.
If they know you're at NC's castle they can freely carry out an attempt.

[Auro]

[I am still not thorough with the mechanics and haven't devoted enough mental energy, this is what I have so far, at least]

[Auro]

Ok. I believe the correct answer is for everyone to act very aggressively with their actions. I think treating this like a normal mafia game is a mistake and we should really embrace the mechanics. I’m submitting actions now.

No, if we have everyone acting aggressively and killing each other is sub-optimal for town. It's best to treat this as Nightless with Flips

[Auro]

I love playing with Nero, people get so angry at him lmao

Yup the drama with LQ was hilarious although I stopped reading now after a few pages

Let me be the guy who comes and calls an argument TvT. This was TvT.

Ygritte, I demand that you constantly post high quality shitposts.

What are everyone's thoughts on Elena?

What do people think of my mechanical thoughts - specifically that we refrain from killing, hide in random castles every day to thwart spy actions?

[Auro]

bad idea. scum nobles could just execute all the guests

We know which castle a guest died in. Automatically the Noble becomes highly suspect.

[Auro]

yeah but if you can trade one scum for say 4-5 guests, you do that in a heartbeat

That chance of 4-5 guests all picking the same noble is low.
Further, scum get only one NPC Spy operative. They cannot make multiple assassinations. If they do, we know that there's scum in the Spies for sure.

[Auro]

Spy Network Actions:
-Plan assassination (kill a player's second-in-command if there is one accompanying him, if none, then kill player. Must designate location of player at time of resolution or action fails) (slow) (hidden)
-Infiltrate intelligence network (Has a chance to unlock after the first Secret Alliance is made. Pick 2 players you suspect of having a secret alliance and become a hidden observer in their PT) (fast) (hidden)
-Take hostage (must target a player without a household guard (or busy arresting) to a designated castle and jailkeep them, must designate target player's location at resolution) (slow) (hidden)
-Distract Court Official (this ability is rotated between Power Brokers every phase) (burst) (public)

None of these seem helpful to town.

Town Power Brokers may simply want to holster (maybe infiltrating PTs is semi useful at best).

There's one way by which we can prevent scum Power Brokers by launching extra assassination plots.

[Auro]

There's one way by which we can prevent scum Power Brokers by launching extra assassination plots.

This method is slightly complex, but means we have a near guarantee that the only assassination/kidnap plots can be from the scum NPC.

[Auro]

When there are at least 2 armies moved to the capital, a vote can be taken by the army leaders to stage a coup, by typing Support Coup: player 1, player 2, player 3, etc. and with a majority vote, re-appoint all Court Officials. Nobles and Power Brokers can gain Court Official actions on top of their original actions, and former Court Officials lose all their abilities.

There appears to be no way to protect Court Officials from continuous NKs (I'll call scum assassinations NKs). With the other groups hiding, we will lose our Court Officials pretty quick.

The flip investigation is very important to town. So, I think all Nobles should go through the process of having armies travel to the Capital in parallel, and on D4, if we have only two Court Officials, redistribute their powers into others (who can hide and thus having town retain the value of Court Official actions).

[Auro]

I don't see the point of that "cycling". Only the distract ability rotates

[Auro]

You don't need to rotate to ensure honesty

[Auro]

Spies are the most valuable asset to scum. If town commit to never assassinating, then the only assassinations we will see are the scum NPCs and scum Spies.

Hence, if we see multiple assassinations happen at any point, it's a guarantee that there is scum in the Power Brokers, and town can nuke all the Brokers at once by leashing them to Nobles and have Nobles kill them, and lynch the rest.

[Auro]

Court Officials can't hide, an assassination on them is guaranteed since Officials don't even have second in commands. Given that and the power of their flip investigations, scum will attempt to kill them off as soon as possible, to leave us with an unreliable minority. It's thus useful to town to make the play that ensures accountability for all Spies (in case they think it's a good trade-off to prove there's scum in Power Brokers while killing extra Court Officials, as they can kill off 2 per day).

[Auro]

Plus, there very well could be 2 Scum on one action who could both lie which would spell disaster for Town if implemented right. That's why we rotate.

Court Officials have only two useful actions: Flip check, and Kidnap/kill check. Since everyone's going to do either of the two, scum lying is pretty dangerous for them.

[Auro]

I don't disagree with that, but then Spy's shouldn't act as independent agents either.

Yes, there's a way to leash Spies.

A bunch of us can use our 1-shot neighborize to create PTs and out them, and leash each Power Broker to "infiltrate" a PT.

The next day, whenever the assigned Power Broker is online, and say they were leashed to my hood, I can write a code in my hood and they immediately acknowledge in the main thread; then my hood mate also does so.

The only failure case here is if we have dual-scum PTs, but we can mitigate that risk too.

[Auro]

Also, investigation plot is going to ensure that we always know what Spy's are doing.

See above. You're wrong officials have no useful abilities.

Read properly , I said they have no other useful abilities apart from flip checks and kidnap/kill checks. By the latter I mean the "they know what Spies are doing" thing.

[Auro]

Ok. I believe the correct answer is for everyone to act very aggressively with their actions. I think treating this like a normal mafia game is a mistake and we should really embrace the mechanics. I’m submitting actions now.

In fact can we all agree to nolynch as a rule and just play with the actions.

VOTE: nolynch

I just didn’t know about it.

Gooooooood Id like a loyal group of officials and I feel Ike LQ would make things hard for the power brokers.

Were these serious posts or joke posts?
How would Court Officials make things hard for power brokers?
Why would you want to distract a Court Official?

[Auro]

Oh, wait, I forgot - we can simply kill off Power Broker NPCs collectively. The only way they can perform Spy actions is by making a hidden recruit. That, again, can be counterplayed by having everyone form hoods (again, where each target is determined by town somehow) so recruiting isn't possible.

Does anyone have an argument towards Spy actions being positive utility for town? Otherwise, if you all agree that Spy actions are negative utility, we can go about leashing and neutering.

[Auro]

Special Actions: (has a chance of being given each time a player takes an aggressive action: arrest, kill, kidnap, disband):

Ah I forgot that you need to make an aggressive action.

@mod: This doesn't apply to scum's factional Spy, right?

Hmm that would throw the earlier down into the drain, but we still have the threat of town nuking all Spies if there's more than one assassination attempt.

I would also policy vote a Noble who kills anyone residing at their castle.

[Auro]

If a Spy proves themselves, then actually they can be quite useful, like a vig, which is great for late game

Vigs are not good for the game!

I would argue that vigs in general Mafia games aren't quite useful, but especially here, you don't usually want multiple kills in the same phase. This is because each Court Official can check only once per phase - so if you spread out the kills, they can come around to check all of them.

If you entertain Spies and Nobles as vigs, you're giving a free pass to scum in these groups to get free kills and pass them off as "meaningful vig shots".

[Auro]

Rubicon: I want your thoughts specifically on all this.

[Auro]

Disagree. I have day vigged a supped up SK on D1 before. It's the only time I have been day vig.

Getting it right once doesn't mean it's useful.
You surely agree that fake guilties are generally anti-town right? I could have faked a guilty only once in my MS life and correctly so, so I can disagree and say fake guiltying is great.
Do you see the problem with that logic?

Besides, here we want to have a minimum number of kills per day phase so that Court Officials can make use of their checks. The more phases we have, the more shots Court Officials get to check flips.

If you're sure of someone being scum, get them lynched.

If we allow people to vig whenever they want, I can guarantee that scum will make full use of it and we see numbers dwindle quick.

This is especially bad because the first few assassinations will invariably be Court Officials

, we need a few of them to survive to D4 when people who can hide take their powers.

Call Banners

Officials don't have distract. I am IMPLEMENTING a thing, it's not native to the game as is. I am saying IF we rotate, we can develop trust (until endgame that is).

Porkens is a Power Broker, he used distract on you.
I don't see the basis by which trust is gained through rotation. This isn't really a problem as long as all Court Officials perform any of the two actions in {Investigate flip, Investigate plots} with a heavier weight to the former, if scum lie in the main thread they heavily risk getting CC'd by another Court Official and thus screw themselves over.

Auro...

I have something spicy to share about my new PC upgrades, but not until I can actually purchase it since I don't want the secret getting out until I make my purchase. It's a prime PC part at a phenomenal price.

Ooooooo! I wanted to get a steering wheel here (I have a VR system so combining the two = awesome) but none of the good ones are available, only some basic Thrustmaster Red Ferrari one which rotates only 90 degrees

[Auro]

Aero is trying to strip the power brokers of their mod given rights. He says the town will be safe if we cut our own throats and play at being his lapdogs.

I will not stand idly by and watch this authoritarian take over.

Every game

. I tell town the pro-town strategy from mechanics, and someone comes along to call me a "dictator", "authoritarian", "fascist" and what not and tries to get me lynched. Sweet!

I'll add a disclaimer:

I was asked for mechanical thoughts and insights, therefore I offered them

. Town is free to abandon them and "have fun",

it still stands that freely vigging people and the other actions are negative utility

.

Calling something negative utility does not make me scum, so Porkens should try harder.

[Auro]

He says the town will be safe if we cut our own throats and play at being his lapdogs.

This reveals a poor understanding of my posts.

The plan is to:

• Eliminate all non-scum-NPC assassinations, i.e. out scum Spies who try to assassinate people
  
• Have all Nobles and Power Brokers be able to hide, making scum kills only 20% effective
  
• Have town retain investigative powers even in the case of Court Officials getting wiped out by the scum team

None of these give me personal agency. None of these are plans that benefit me as scum. None of these involve anyone being my lapdog. None of these involve anyone killing themselves.

Nobles killing people at their castles is NU.
Power Brokers assassinating or kidnapping people is NU.
Court Officials disbanding guards is NU.

[Auro]

But what if it's two court officials who are Scum? That's the only reason we need to rotate. If you want to say 2 Investigate Death and 2 Investigate Plot, then I can see that fairly well. But we still need to rotate so two Scum Officials don't spoon feed us with false info.

Well, what about on the day when both are assigned to flip-check? That particular day we could get false info, no?
My thoughts are that officials randomly perform checks and only report if there's a scum flip or an extra Spy plot.

If you're a scum CO, you don't know whether other town COs are doing the same check as you. If you lie, another CO could simply come out and say "He's lying!" and town can simply lynch them both hitting guaranteed scum. That's what I mean.

[Auro]

NU = Negative Utility.

Sure, but even if 2 scum stay together on actions, they can't predict the other 3 CO's actions, no? So what do they even achieve?
The thing is, we can't build loyalty from honesty. Scum can very well "build loyalty" early game and then change their play late game. The moment you start making lists, it allows scum to choose who to NK and allows more leeway in faking investigate results.

Hopefully Porkens doesn't hold the Distract power for the day, but otherwise that was a pointless anti-town action.

[Auro]

Special Actions: (has a chance of being given each time a player takes an aggressive action: arrest, kill, kidnap, disband):
-Recruit ally (gain an NPC third-in-command that will give you an additional action per phase, can only be used once per game) (slow) (hidden)
-Secret alliance (neighborizer, 1-shot) (burst) (hidden)

-Escape route (1-shot evade assassination or hostage execution) (triggers upon threat) (hidden)

Sweet. This is how Court Officials can prevent getting NK'd.
LQ, you can Disband my Guard and then take the Escape Route power
I personally don't care for Guards, I want to travel fast between castles.

[Auro]

Right now, I townread {Arya, BBMolla, Shireen, Nero Cain, LQ} in no particular order of strength from their play. I can discuss specific reads if anyone wants to!

[Auro]

Her general tone and play, and the way she reacted to me when I said I would PL her if she had no legitimate stances - she offered a "legitimate stance" of me being scum, which I don't really imagine she would do as scum. I felt he'd either push me back on the whole PL thing, or vote someone else.

[Auro]

this is some bullshit though. Not every game but practicly every game uses green for town and red for mafia.

This is of course nonsense, but: how do you know that Porkens is not simply trolling?

[Auro]

Right now, I townread {Arya, BBMolla, Shireen, Nero Cain, LQ} in no particular order of strength from their play. I can discuss specific reads if anyone wants to!

Oh, I forgot, Elena is in this list too.

[Auro]

Pretty sure the awarded special powers are random?

Oh. I thought that the randomness was in whether or not the powers were awarded, not which power was given. Well, at least this offers a chance of escaping assassinates, which is still good, I guess?

[Auro]

VOTE: Porkens

Yeah, I'm townreading the person my vote was on at the time I scumread her.

[Auro]

In Elena's case specifically I'd like to reveal reasoning later.

[Auro]

The scum NPC is untargetable and unblockable, no? So a jailkeep can be overridden by the factional assassinate if they know where they are, I thought.

[Auro]

Plan Assassination seems really anti-town in the early game phases, but I don't feel good about restricting town kill power later on. Yes, this might backfire horribly, but still - sometimes you get into a situation where you need an extra kill to win.

What kind of situation? If there's any very special situation, town can collectively agree to allow vigs at that point, no?

[Auro]

-Arrest second-in-command (type: Arrest: Player1's 2nd (only works if they are in capital city) (burst) (public)

COs can just neuter Power Brokers and then hope to get the Escape gift today, while the Power Brokers are still in Capital and there's nothing to flip

[Auro]

Sure, and "never assassinate anyone secretly or without getting town approval" is a version of the rule I would fully support.

Of course! These can conditionally arise at any point; I'd still like it known that generally they're bad for reasons I've stated.

[Auro]

Basically I hate this and think it's anti-fun but it might also be optimal, so whatever.

COs can also just disband guards. I'm ok with LQ disbanding mine, as I won't be having any use for one.
Also hey - if assassinations and kidnaps are fun, then arrests should also be equally fun, natch

[Auro]

You shouldn't disband your guard. It protects you from House Arrest and Take Hostage, and you can't House Arrest anyone else if you lose your guard.

I'll be traveling every day to a different castle. If I have to go with my guard, it'll take two day phases, and since I'm known to be in the Capital during the second phase (I reach in the third) I can get NK'd. Anyone who travels with guards moves slow outside the Capital.

I don't plan on House Arresting anyone anyway.

So as far as personal play is concerned, my Guard is useless - there's more value IMO in having a CO disband my Guard to rand an Escape power.

[Auro]

Can the scum NPC bypass Escape Plan too?

Oh yeah good question, thanks. In my mind Evade didn't count as a block.

@mod: Do Jailkeeps and Escape Plan evasions block scum NPC's assassinations?

[Auro]

Fellow Nobles, please call your banners so we can move armies into the Capital! If scum end up wiping out a lot of COs we can retain some of the power.

[Auro]

I think Porkens is a better lynch than all of them, personally.

[Auro]

He's actively saying that as a power broker he wants to assassinate and kidnap freely.
If he's scum then great, if he's town he's playing anti-town to my eyes.

That "red PM" "slip" was dumb, trying to neuter LQ's power when Court Officials are very important was bad.

[Auro]

With all respect, Nero and Rubicon, I think your argument's getting a little silly.

Nero... Rubicon could have found specific reasoning of your posts before your reads poor. You could simply ask him to detail that.

Rubicon... work around Nero's stubbornness

Hug it out you two

[Auro]

Get on Porky Pig with me.

[Auro]

Auro did you give any thought to that yet. Your insights would be invaluable to me.

I have a light townread on Arya simply from her saying this.

[Auro]

I also thought you grabbed onto my Pork-scum ideas in the PT a little too easily.

Which PT?

[Auro]

and everyones pushes are like not even worth questioning why they do that cause they got nothing on nobody to do anything of substance.

The Porkens case is pure substance.

@mod: Can JKs/Evades escape the factional assassination?

[Auro]

The escape route can work against the factional kill, yes.

But not someone Jailkept?

Okay, still works. Court Officials - arrest a Power Broker's NPC or Disband someone's guard. You may not want to mention which gift you get. Beware against using a neighborize: if you use it on scum, scum know they can kill you off safely!

[Auro]

-Worst case is 3 scum nobles, in which case scum can endgame at 9p with 3 kills in one phase (ie after 2 mislynches)
-Town should be moving around frequently to disguise locations, this provides a psuedo bulletproof
-We should be get hostages to nobles asap to raise the kill ratio of non confirmed scum kills to confirmed scum kills
-Court officials most useful power is scanning alignment of dead. Its worth to stack COs on the same scan to avoid risk of misinformation. For day 1, probably 4 of us should scan the lynch, the other powers are not useful early game (possibly ever). when nobles start killing, spreading CO scans will become necessary
-Looks like setting up hostages could take a LONG time, so in the mean time game is effectively vanilla. Most actions seem either not useful or unlikely to ever come into effect.
-In general, the CO investigate death ability is town's most useful power

1. Correct, unless town collectively agrees not to use Noble kills
2. Correct, keep moving around castle to castle.
3. There's no need for hostages. We know whose castle someone was in when they die, and apparently a JK doesn't help against scum factional kill.
4. Day 1 (today) you guys should arrest or disband to hopefully get a 1-shot BP. You COs can't travel. What COs do should be independently random instead of leashed I think that leaves no room for scum lying. Maybe actually everyone can just keep checking flips.
5. Even with hostages you'd have scum factional kills, so it's better that town just agrees never to assassinate or kill - so scum can't do it if they're in a position to individually.
6. Yes. This, along with most town hiding in castles makes it ~ Nightless with Flips.

[Auro]

You can't block factional NPC.

This confirms Jailkeeps are useless then.

[Auro]

The function of Nobles is to provide hiding spots. Extra *mislynches* are bad, we want to spread out kills for easier checks. Only if town democratically wants a vig it should happen; if you allow yolo shots then scum will definitely take them.

Scum nobles are a threat as the game progresses, but not initially. Scum Spies are also dangerous since that means extra assassination attempts on COs.

[Auro]

Also, this is bad only if we don't hit scum in our lynches to end-game. Since it's effectively flipless for a while and we get flip checks, we can adjust strategies then.

We should simply aim to hit scum.

[Auro]

Ygritte, do you know Arya's main?
If I know you know her main then I know her main

[Auro]

Mastina

[Auro]

Make sure you travel today in game too

[Auro]

ARRREST THE PIGGY

[Auro]

Piggy, you can hide in my castle of you please. I am very generous to my house guests.

[Auro]

Oh my, the slander... I forgive you. In fact, make it up to me by visiting my castle! I'll have a surprise for you

[Auro]

Also, and I'm not saying that Auro is deff scum or anything, but scum will spend time talking about mechanics b/c then they don't have to talk about reads or scumhunt.

Why do you ignore that I also talked about reads and scumhunted?

[Auro]

@LQ he is masterminding the town using his scum buddies in the other two affinity groups to usurp the power of the council and the brokers. Once this is accomplished, the Kabal will engineer favorable conditions for scum victory.

If that’s not scum I don’t know what is.

One of the dumbest cases I've heard...

"Why is Auro scum"
"He is scum who will mastermind and win the game"

Porkens isn't even able to make up legit sounding reasons - his answer to why I am scum is simply that I am scum.

"Loss of town power" (in his next post) is also daft: by lynching people you invariably lose town power anyway. My plan is pseudo BP for Nobles/Power Brokers and discouragement of vigs.
Porkens wants to freely vig people.

Which plan kills town power faster? Vigging people freely or not vigging people?

[Auro]

Nero, Fire: towncase Porkens for me.

[Auro]

Why do you ignore that I also talked about reads and scumhunted?

I'm not even scum reading you so....

Yes but it's odd to say "scum talk about mechanics to avoid talking about reads" when I very clearly talked a lot about reads. What does that achieve?

[Auro]

I mean, we

SHOULD

be using vigs as extra lynches.

Nope! By allowing that you give scum free kills outside their factional kill. If town majority wants a specific lynch, sure.

I'm getting paranoid that you're scum with Porkens so....

[Auro]

I want to have the freedom to vig. Yes, that is 100% correct and I will die for that right.

LQ, please exercise your freedom to Arrest this guy

[Auro]

Insulting your critics is a classic authoritarian move. Textbook really.

You want to take away our rights and form death panels, how anyone does not see right through you is mystifying.

Totally... Only an authoritarian can have opinions and scumreads. Textbook.

Now town majority is "death panel" lolwut? Are you saying that the normal lynching process is an evil death panel?

[Auro]

you know who would be scared of vig power? scum

like sure, don't vig willy nilly but a democratically picked vig shot is nothing bad. + there are a ton of players that are BLATANTLY not doing anything and those are good lynches and vig shots.

I never said democratic vig shots are as bad (although you still want to spread it out)

Yeah some slots will do something. Ygritte is a poor wagon IMO. Towncase Porkens?

[Auro]

There is real fear here. Oh how I wish the other brokers would stand up for themselves. Rubicon actually said “Auro just wants to arrest us all, arrest and release are burst so they can give you back your power any time”. Fucking LoL

I said town can do that I just want you arrested. Why are you whining about taking away your power when you want to exercise your right to take away someone's life?

Democracy works by votes and consensus. If you need more details I can talk about it.

[Auro]

.... why Kmd and not Porkens

[Auro]

I'm pretty sure Porkens is going to try and shoot LQ

[Auro]

Like we go to tomorrow with one CO dead from scum and one CO shot by Porkens who's happy at his exercised freedom, and then the next day two more COs die out, and... Our investigative power is gone

[Auro]

I'm deciding whether to stay in the Capital myself.

[Auro]

Nero *at least* can you agree that COs are not to be touched for a long while

[Auro]

I AM FREE LIKE THE WIND, why can't I travel by myself??

Do I need a lift from someone? Is Jon Snow in this playerlist?

Disband my Guard or Arrest Porky and get the sweet kill evade.

[Auro]

I think everyone in the list is sortable. I would've said Shireen but I actually think I townread her off content so

[Auro]

You're in it, you're a lurker, but you're town

[Auro]

The mod might give you a gift. Don't tell us what it is! If it's a neighborize prolly don't use it

[Auro]

You're in it, you're a lurker, but you're town

Is that at me?

Yes

[Auro]

You're in it, you're a lurker, but you're town

and you know this how?

As I said before, I won't be talking about my reasons to townread Elena just yet

[Auro]

yes, they are important but there's also scum there. So its a trade off

COs are super important and easily killable so.... Just see who's still sticking around D4 or so, reassign their powers and N U K E

[Auro]

At what point do you plan to?

When I think it is appropriate, and she's past the point of knowingly manipulating that tell

[Auro]

Nero's talking too much to be scum, unless Porkens is scum

[Auro]

Nobles: Call your banners. Travel somewhere.

[Auro]

eh, maybe a decent strat but I kinda hate idea of specifically leaving alive players just b/c their roles are useful. This means that any scum CO's get a free pass till d4 and town CO's will get insta pushed

Yes and on D4 we nuke them after Coup. It's not as bad as you think it is

[Auro]

I'll agree with your plan if we can lynch ygritte today then I won't touch a CO till d4.

... and your case on Ygritte is? I disagree very much that she is scummy.

[Auro]

How much does arresting scum matter? I think votato is more likely scum but I want to arrest Nero for the luls

It wouldn't matter much if town agreed to not vig...
Do you townread LQ?

[Auro]

And the fifth CO can disband my Guard.

[Auro]

{Ygritte, Elena, Rubicon, Auro, Arya, BBMolla, Shireen}

Townbloc V2 GO

[Auro]

We have to lynch someone today and ygritte is one of the ones doing shit all. If not her wich one are we lynching?

Porkens, all of his posts are silly

[Auro]

I sent in my action long ago btw, just the Call to Banners

[Auro]

What's up Flavor

[Auro]

Ygritte, if I wasn't sure about your main I'd have guessed you're NSG/Alyssa or maybe Cephrir.

[Auro]

Indubitably

[Auro]

Good. LQ, now ARRREST THE PIGGY

[Auro]

Why are we arresting all the spy people? I'm in that group so I am biased;-;

1. Nobles and Power Brokers can hide at castles, COs stay at capital and are vulnerable. By taking an aggressive action they get a chance of obtaining an Evasion power, that'll protect them from the NK
2. It just leashes Power Brokers' vigs and kidnaps and I think those are NU anyway. Nero's already angling to justify shooting Ygritte, and Porkens wants to "exercise his freedom" probably to put LQ down. That's two COs out already apart from the NK.

[Auro]

Stop giving orders Auro

I shouldn't have the FREEDOM to suggest ideas to people? Stop being a fascist.

[Auro]

So, you mean instead of us just claiming who we might assassinate we want to take away that choice entirely where as if we didn't claim an assassinate that would prove scum are in our hood

We go to D2.
Kmd is dead from scum NPC.
Nero claims a Ygritte vig because "lurking/shitposting".
Porky claims an LQ vig because "he had a beef with Nero".

Would you insta kill Nero/Porky?

[Auro]

Oh that was a “suggestion” was it?

I WOULD like you to explain your proposal for the death panel by the way. How would that work, procedurally?

The "death panel" here is just town

If town collectively wants someone dead, we can force the extra kill anyway

[Auro]

I mean I can not asssassinate anyone if that's really a worry

If we have a policy of no yolo lynching (and here yolo == not a town majority) it makes it impossible for scum spies to get their free kills.

It's kind of similar to policy lynching people who hard-defend scum. Sure they might be town, but if you follow such a policy you deter scum from doing that.

[Auro]

you are making shit up out of whole cloth.

How would that force work?

The target must be at a Noble's castle or at the Capital. If Noble's castle, Noble kills. Otherwise, vig shot.

LQ is obvtown.

[Auro]

Flavor Leaf?

[Auro]

Do you think having a list of maybe 2-3 people for the spy to shoot in is bad? The 2-3 being people we would probably lynch down the line.

If town can agree on the 2-3 people then it's Coolio, as long as it isn't just purely personal reads, yeah.

I'm actually OK with you having a vig shot for yourself but eh

[Auro]

And how is the kill forced? What happens if the noble or broker fails to comply?

Then town executes them via voting.

[Auro]

Do you think having a list of maybe 2-3 people for the spy to shoot in is bad? The 2-3 being people we would probably lynch down the line.

Also COs by policy shouldn't be touched by spies till D4 when we can coup, I believe. They're already going to fall to the NKs.

[Auro]

Ah let’s and cronyism to the list then, fantastic.

And how are targets decided?

Okay lmao town voting == cronyism, hilarious stuff

You use your voice. Propose a target, get town to collectively support killing the target.

That's how democracy works

[Auro]

We have about a day left to lynch. What's the VC looking like? Aka let us get something cooking.

I don't mind lynching Flavor Leaf.

[Auro]

I said "but eh" implying I would prefer her to follow policy

[Auro]

What's the FL-Votato association again?

[Auro]

And once the brokers are arrested, who checks the officials?

Checks the officials for what? They can't kill. And they're not even a worry, scum's going to take them down as fast as they can.

[Auro]

They can lurk all they want but they have pure mechanical use, and are also the only NKs that can go through with certainty, so come D4 and you won't be seeing many of them. Still paranoid that COs have scum? Sure, stage a Coup and we redistribute their powers, then just lynch the remaining COs.

[Auro]

Good night.
Shireen's prob town but I guess not such a bad lynch anyway, *shrug*

[Auro]

Wait a minute. I'm not townreading Fire...

[Auro]

What if I'm scum trying to get Piggy arrested before he can vig me (I'm in the Capital today anyway so it will go through)

[Auro]

Hydra w/moi

[Auro]

Sure thing, good night.

[Auro]

VOTE: Firebringer

[Auro]

Hey auro what’s up

Not made my mind yet on whether to troll or take this game seriously

I guess if I want to troll I'll keep you around and lynch someone else

Btw scum can kill me today cause D1 I'm at capital anyways so.

[Auro]

Wow only want to keep me around when u want to troll

If I want to troll and also scumread you yes

I would also want to keep you around if I townread you independent of that

So should I be trolly or not? Hmmm The Trolly Problem is hard

[Auro]

Follow my heart it is. Who do you wanna lynch?

[Auro]

I am policy not voting COs, as scum will NK them over these few days anyway

[Auro]

Yeah, call your banners, let's take their powers before killing them

[Auro]

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little self-voter? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Forum Academy, and I’ve been involved in secret raids on Mastina-Radiant Cowbell hydras, and I have over 300 confirmed mislynches. I am trained in WIFOM and I’m the top OMGUSer in the entire mafiascum community. You are nothing to me but just another lolhammer. I will Preview-Edit you out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this website mark my words. You think you can get away with saying shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my network of alt-accounts across my computer and your name is being voted for right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your account. You’re fucking dead, newbie. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can modkill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my Auro account. Not only am I extensively trained in ISO analysis, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the Semi-Experienced playerbase and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your ass off the face of this RVS, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your tongue. You didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn MyLo. I will IIoA all over you and you will drown in EBWOP. You’re fucking dead, Firebringer

[Auro]

watch the majority of scum be CO's and Auro's "don't lynch CO's till d4!" plan put us in a 7 v. 3-all scum would need is 2 ml's and 2 nks to win.

And then we coup, take their powers, and kill most of them
==
WIN

[Auro]

Maybe something would go wrong if scum are all out of the COs
In which case not lynching them right now is good

[Auro]

What does the coup do? Why wait till d4 to coup?

Why are you so skeptical of the plan when you don't even understand it

[Auro]

I'm trying to understand it hence why I', asking a question. It does not make you look very good when you deflect.

Why didn't you attempt to understand before complaining about how what I'm saying is bad?

[Auro]

auro wants blind obedience.

So you do understand what I'm intending and this is your conclusion?

Or you don't understand and you're talking out of your ass?

[Auro]

if you are town then you are intentionally playing aginst your wincon so maybe you are just scum, no?

If vigging is not against win-con then arresting surely shouldn't be, no?

[Auro]

why can't u just answer the question?

Because you're approaching this in bad faith, by constant shading and discrediting when you acknowledge you don't even understand what I was trying to put forth as a town plan.

[Auro]

watch the majority of scum be CO's and Auro's "don't lynch CO's till d4!" plan put us in a 7 v. 3-all scum would need is 2 ml's and 2 nks to win.

And then we coup, take their powers, and kill most of them
==
WIN

yeah ok. Nothing can ever go wrong with that.

First, tell me what you were thinking when you made post 930, given you have no idea what a coup is.

[Auro]

The answer is in my ISO and the setup rules.

[Auro]

And next time, think of better empty questions to ask, tsk tsk Nero

[Auro]

As long as town majority approves a lurker vig I'm all for it.
Your arrest today gives a CO potential BP which is pro town.

I didn't say "ban all vigs", I said "ban all personal vigs" and you know there's a difference... or don't you

It's anti-scum because scum spies otherwise have free shots they can use on their pet personal reads and slither out of being scumread for it.

[Auro]

also, and im not real real sure on how thing work yet but if I do an agressive action I can get a special ability so she's denying town more power.

Your aggressive action also denies town power.
The only real lurkers I see in this game are FL and Shireen, the former who will play with time, and the latter who I already townread to some extent anyway.

Ygritte is playing the game, and is not a lurker.

[Auro]

When there are at least 2 armies moved to the capital, a vote can be taken by the army leaders to stage a coup, by typing Support Coup: player 1, player 2, player 3, etc. and with a majority vote, re-appoint all Court Officials. Nobles and Power Brokers can gain Court Official actions on top of their original actions, and former Court Officials lose all their abilities.

Tsk

[Auro]

Nobles shouldn't be killing any guests at their residence either. Every castle should be a safe spot, have scum guessing where everyone is. They have only a 1/6 chance of guessing correctly.

[Auro]

Noble armies are not at the Capital, they're at our respective castles.

Call Banners

: One phase (Fast)

Move Army to Capital

: Two phases (Slow)

Only then we can call a coup, D1 + 3 phases = D4

[Auro]

Ygritte usually just gimmick/fluff posts, that is not AI for her. She's done enough things I see as towny, or at least towny enough not to eat a vig shot.

I have individual reasons to townread all of them except Votato.

[Auro]

Your aggressive action also denies town power.

you don't know this b/c you don't know who I targeted.

And Ygritte doesn't know it because she doesn't know your alignment, no?

Besides, your NPC was arrested so you can't target today anyway

[Auro]

A somewhat confident gut read, and when I shared something to prove it she said "... Impressive" which I took to be confirmation. I won't share it cos privacy. What I'm claiming should be inferable from this game exclusively though.

Sure, but I've seen town posts from her. She's also fully capable of "proper posting" as scum, she doesn't need a gimmick to hide. She does the gimmick part for the fun of it.

[Auro]

I didn't say "ban all vigs", I said "ban all personal vigs" and you know there's a difference... or don't you

I call bullshit. I specifically said that we should use our vigs as a 2nd lynch and you said "no"

If town can agree on the 2-3 people then it's Coolio, as long as it isn't just purely personal reads, yeah.

Learn to read, my dear friend

[Auro]

Nero:

I won't read Auro's ISO and I won't read the setup properly, I don't know what Auro's saying but whatever it is, it's scummy! Wait he said the opposite of what I believe he said? Eff that, I don't read so in my eyes he never said it, so he's scummy anyway!

[Auro]

I guess the d4 coup plan works out but I think your reads are wrong and you put to much emphasis on personal bullshit so you are just a more intelligent LQ.

Nah fam, as I said, the observations I made on Ygritte's playstyle are inferable from her play.
Also, obviously I would weigh in what I personally know into my reads lol, you think I shouldn't? Why?

[Auro]

Sure.

We've concluded that basic town strategy is as follows:

1. Nobles generally agree not to violate anyone's guest right.
2. Nobles and Power Brokers travel every night to a different castle. Scum have to know where you are in order to assassinate you, so as long as you're in a random castle they'll probably miss the shot.
3. Power Brokers should generally never assassinate (vig) unless town consensus agrees on one.
4. Court Officials cannot travel, and are hence ripe assassination targets, and will likely be the factional scum kills. They are also required for investigation of dead flips. Court Officials should take an aggressive action [Disband someone's guards or Arrest a Spy] and they might receive a 1-shot Evade prize which is the only chance at escaping the factional NK, so every CO should do this today.
5. COs should randomly either investigate flips or investigate assassination/kidnap attempts, with a high weight towards the former, and report when there's a scum flip.
6. COs shouldn't use neighborize if they get it, if they don't want scum to know their BP status.
7. Nobles should call banners and mov

[Auro]

7. Nobles should call banners and move their armies to the Capital, this will take three phases. On D4 we establish a Coup and re-assign court powers to people who are townread*.

That's mostly it. Fingers hit the submit button.

[Auro]

Hmmm trying hard to figure out who you are

Yup! You can use it, only one CO arrested someone so far...

[Auro]

I can't help it. Can I have one guess to redeem at any point in the meantime?

[Auro]

Sure then. Nah I'd prolly only guess anyway after a lot more time passes, I'm sort of stumped atm

[Auro]

I'm talking like, LQ "suspects" ppl based on if they are pushing him or agreeing with him. You are pushing me as a Pork buddy b/c I agree with him a little more than about the vig thing than with you-although I don't think we ACTUALLY disagree that much but there's a minute difference in what we do believe. At worst its shoddy scumhunting, at best it's fascist scumplay.

No, I'm pushing you as a Pork buddy because I scumread Pork and you are defending Pork, without giving me any valid reasons to scumread Pork.

Who said I'm scumreading him based on the vig thing? I've said that almost all his arguments are daft and shouldn't be for town!Piggy.

Before you try lecturing people on what constitutes "shoddy scumhunting" perhaps you should just learn to read what people are saying first - otherwise that makes you a shoddy scumhunter, natch