DEFCON Mafia 5.0: GAME OVER - NEW AMERICA FORMED

[Mognet]

Hello Kupos! Pleasure to play with you!

Does anyone wish to give me a short brief?

What about you Kupo?

I want mail!

[Mognet]

UNVOTE:

I should not have my stiltskin stamp of yeet on anyone until I have some missives at least.

[Mognet]

Let me summarize for you

Joqiza: hi, I'm town
Pooky, nexus, and someone else I bet: et al is scum
Et al: nuh uh
LLD, probably some other people: mastina is scum
Mastina: Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Lmao. Kupo you’re hurting my sides from laughter!

I take it Mastina is wordy. Is there anything besides this?

[Mognet]

I am pretty sure Queen Brahne implemented total war in my country before I was an American. It did not turn out well. Strategic strikes with accountability is good no?

I have not had the privilege of playing with nukes before so but they seem dangerous.

Using missives with other Kupos seems better.

Is there anything quick before I go do some reading?

Thank you for the image kind Kupo!

[Mognet]

I tend not to deliver hammers until disc 2 because repairing gate walls is slow.

Can someone please explain to me the wagon on Mastina besides she uses long missives?

Long missives in a big game seem good.

They are hard for me but I try.

[Mognet]

Depending upon the answer we can figure out if Mastina is an American who are the nasty Russians/Terrorist pushing her.
If Mastina is scum then we can figure out who of the Russians/Terrorists likes airship crashing.

[Mognet]

Got any recent scum games of hers for more missives I can read?

I have to start catching up now but will read more missives later.

Alexandria doesn’t get all its missives without me!

[Mognet]

Just vote mastina.

There ain't no stoppin' this train we're on.

Not trying to stop a train Kupo!

Trying to understand it for better message system tomorrow!

Best to get as many quality missives each day.

Even if some people are determined to be trolls rather than Americans we can still figure out their allegiance in their trolling.

[Mognet]

Just vote mastina.

There ain't no stoppin' this train we're on.

Why are you in a rush to end it polar bear Kupo?

Do you think Mastina is a Russian? If so who do you think is a Russian with her?

If not and you think she is an American or a Terrorist why the rush to end the day early before I have read things?

I like wordy words.

[Mognet]

Why not? The description is accurate.

Some kupos are taking a laid back approach versus hunting Russians. Some people are determined to be laid back. This seems an accurate statement does it not? Am I missing something cute animal Kupo?

[Mognet]

Speedlimming to nukes without knowing Queen Brahne is evil leads to possible nuking Zidane or Dagger or Steiner. Not good. Nukes should be used cautiously and reads generously.

[Mognet]

Speedlimming to nukes without knowing Queen Brahne is evil leads to possible nuking Zidane or Dagger or Steiner. Not good. Nukes should be used cautiously and reads generously.

Who are you even talking about?

This is a FF9 reference Trenchcoat Kupo. Those are all FF9 characters. I am breaking a bit of the fourth wall with that laid back comment. I am just expressing caution and not to go haywire and to write missives and actions carefully.

[Mognet]

I can’t tell if the mognet is trying to look town or is actually town.

It would not be an interesting game if one could sort me quickly. Then I might die Kupo and then we go back to the rapid spam times.

[Mognet]

Just vote mastina.

There ain't no stoppin' this train we're on.

Not trying to stop a train Kupo!

Trying to understand it for better message system tomorrow!

Best to get as many quality missives each day.

Even if some people are determined to be trolls rather than Americans we can still figure out their allegiance in their trolling.

I would vote against total war. Accurate statement there Church Kupo.

However I think like in FF9 what good are nukes if you don’t have a target?

What good is life without living?

Surely those Americans who want nukes want to hit Russians. Then there’s more nukes.

[Mognet]

I would vote against total war.

...

Your point Kupo? I would always vote for more communication. So far there has been very little. I do not know what my predecessor voted for or any expectations in general but gradual controlled chaos tends to work better.

Unrestrained chaos is room for Russians to breathe.

Mastina isn’t dead yet because no one has linked me to prior missives or given a summary other than Mastina uses wordy words in which I don’t stop communication because words.

[Mognet]

My point is that I wanna get to the fun part and u are wrong, chaos is good for town and order would be good for scum. Why would chaos ever be good for scum

I suppose we have a different philosophy there church Kupo. When I am scum in my alternate form, if there is chaos I can boost the chaos that suits nefarious purposes. Order and reason are much harder to work around as those are facts Kupo. A town working together and gelling with a good town block wins games. Said block is rare but the strategy is sound.

[Mognet]

Look at Warehouse 13 Mognet.

I shall Trenchcoat Kupo. Should I look at anything in particular? Is this a game where chaos was good for town? Was order? Was Mastina scum? Why this game?

[Mognet]

There is only death!
VOTE: DeasVail

I don't particularly like mastina right now but I think this might be the better lim.

VOTE: Vaxkiller

Silent vote from a player who hasn't done anything all game on to a townread of mine.
Hmm...

VOTE: mastina
I'm good with this, but would prefer something else.

This is scum, FYI. Second quote in particular reads incredibly forced

Ooooh shiny reads! I like you kupo. You get a pass today.

[Mognet]

Its good if just so happen that everyone in the block is town but when it’s not and ur scrambling for information, you want chaos. Order hurts us more than helps us in this gamestate.

I agree on the first part. That’s why I am taking time to slow and steadily build a block Kupo. It’s important to have good kupos working together. There’s no scramble here. It’s methodical missives toward a goal. What order is hurting us? Did we do something silly like mass claim missives? If not I see almost no order here which is bad.

[Mognet]

Look at Warehouse 13 Mognet.

I shall Trenchcoat Kupo. Should I look at anything in particular? Is this a game where chaos was good for town? Was order? Was Mastina scum? Why this game?

Mastina was scum. Town was incredibily efficient at nailing scum. Mastina was the first elimination and the other option was also scum. There were attempted town wagons but none of them went through.

Interesting. At a high level, what was Mastina’s reaction to being wagoned? What drove the elim of the other wagon? Care to give a jist? Then we can assume Mastina is scum here and maybe get a second or look for similar reactions to find a good nuke/elim candidate.

[Mognet]

i didnt see yours!! i'm in olympia!!!!!!!

The Olympia area is where I'm pretty sure my various nephews (from my rather promiscuous half-brother) are!

I'm also somewhat familiar with the Renton area due to teen square dance clubs that were homed there.

LLD is going to have an aneurysm if all of EM winds up townblocking
Meanwhile I forget that the year is no longer 2016/2017 where I ran the table and all these EM Zoomers who never heard of me have replaced me. It's like I've replaced the old 2011/2013 elitists, I'm the boomer now

You think 2011-2013 EMer makes you old, try being a 2008-2010 EMer. I was on EpicMafia prominently before I was on mafiascum prominently and actually honed my skills there pretty well, and often in weeks had like top-20 placements on the weekly leaderboard without ever going too high (which I was fine with as being the highest gave burden of proficiency and got you policy-nk'd).

YDRA IS TOWN
PRAISE JEEBUS

Pooky can soulread Ydrasse btw so Ydrasse is locktown. I was already thinking town but if Pooky says Ydrasse is town, then Ydrasse is town.

i think dcl left all their games so i don't find their replacement ai.

This is not knowledge I had; the knowledge I had is that dcl confirmed but never posted in this game per the mod which looked suspect. If dcl didn't leave all their games, but left this one, that would in fact be suspicious, indicating a reason to not want to be in this game. Leaving all games does indeed make it not alignment indicative, sure--but I've some reason to suspect the slot from the replacement

anyway

in that this VFP is not the town VFP that I've seen before.

PookyTheMagicalBear
gorilla
Prism
Bell
Untrod Tripod/Merlot
joqiza
mary
Lady Lambdadelta
Cephrir
samantha97
DeathNote

Equinox/The Entity
Save the Dragons
Nexus
DeasVail

Robert M Hunter
Titus

Vaxkiller

Toogeloo

The Church of Skitter (Alisae/Menalque)
T3
deep-city-lights/VFP

Et Al (Skitter/SS)

Locktown townread lean town null lean scum scumread scum.

This is Mastina’s last post Kupo. Does she readwall often? Does she obey the rule of three? Does she bus? Is she antibus?

What are her tendencies Kupo?

Assume she is scum Kupo? Could buddies want nukes quickly and be okay with her wagon? Or would they resist?

[Mognet]

Mognet who are you an alt of

Firey Kupo I shall not answer said question. I have an alternate form. If I wanted to be in the game as my main form I would be in the game as my main form. Should Mod Kupo ask me to share I shall but I am not on a list of black far as I am aware.

[Mognet]

I wanted a game I could have fun and be jokey in why kinda try.

This is me being jovial.

Please don’t ruin that with alt hunting Kupo

[Mognet]

im only refreshing this thread anymore for pooky and mognet posts

Kupo it would make me very happy if you could give me a read missive

[Mognet]

im only refreshing this thread anymore for pooky and mognet posts

Kupo it would make me very happy if you could give me a read missive

i'm about to leave work (which is when i'm most active in games, because i have a desk job, and i spilled soda on my laptop which is in the shop rn), but to be honest i dont really have many reads. my gut says you and pooky are town because you're having fun (which... doesnt mean youre town but i value fun, okay). if you iso me though you can see my stance on the game i guess?! i'm new here hi i'm marry

Hi Marry! I will ISO everyone later when not dealing with missives. I hope you enjoy it here. I don’t have much in the way of reads except Gorilla is probably an American for sharing reads. That’s the only gut read I have right now. Us moogles don’t have much room for gut reads anyway.

Do you think the wagon on Mastina is natural?

[Mognet]

Votecount 1.2

mastina (12) - Vaxkiller, VFP, Lady Lambdadelta, The Church of Skitter, The Entity, Titus, PookyTheMagicalBear, marry, Nexus, T3, Cephrir, Toogeloo
Vaxkiller (2) - Mognet, Robert M Hunter
DeasVail (1) - samantha97

Not Voting [9] - Bell, DeasVail, Koto, Mastina, DeathNote, joqiza, Et Al, gorilla, Save The Dragons

(expired on 2021-05-19 09:47:00) remain until day end

With 24 players alive, it takes 13 to reach a majority.

Any particular reason for VFP Bell Kupo based on what you’ve read?

[Mognet]

Look at Warehouse 13 Mognet.

I shall Trenchcoat Kupo. Should I look at anything in particular? Is this a game where chaos was good for town? Was order? Was Mastina scum? Why this game?

Mastina was scum. Town was incredibily efficient at nailing scum. Mastina was the first elimination and the other option was also scum. There were attempted town wagons but none of them went through.

Interesting. At a high level, what was Mastina’s reaction to being wagoned? What drove the elim of the other wagon? Care to give a jist? Then we can assume Mastina is scum here and maybe get a second or look for similar reactions to find a good nuke/elim candidate.

You're asking me for a tonal analysis, which I suck at. I'm also divorced from the emotional context. I'll do my best to answer but if you want meta, you're best looking at yourself.

Mastina's biggest contributions were 1)attacking obvtown Prism and 2) whiteknighting my slot. She was a sacrifical lamb to try and save SirCakez who was the scum PR wagoned along side of her. She didn't throw a fit at all but scum had no traction in the game. The closest they came to a miselimination was policy attempts on myself and Mathblade.

Does that help?

It will later!

I was more asking for literal facts.

Does Mastina as scum obey the rule of three? Meaning one of her buddies is at the bottom. This is a true/false based on meta. Does she bus when dying to create distance.

Has town her replicated this situation?

I am looking for more yes/no than tone things.

Pattern analysis between missives. I think the phrase is meta Trenchcoat Kupo.

[Mognet]

joqiza hi i have a question for u in my iso, i'll repeat it here but you'll need to have read the last like. 10 pages to understand it:
do you think the way mastina has been voted is the same reasons me and you would vote samp4palmer for (doing the same song and dance consistently, nipping it in the bud)
thats what im grappling with but i dont reall think it matters til we have a flip

Who is samp4palmer? Is this from another universe artwork Kupo?

[Mognet]

I didn't like their first reads list because it didn't mention the people that it would make sense for them to get a read on given the posts that were made. In my expert opinion.

Can you go more in-depth for when I read missives later?

[Mognet]

I want to hammer.

Why do you want to hammer before I and the other replacement are caught up Hunter Kupo?

[Mognet]

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Kupo_(term)

Kupo has many uses target Kupo! Think of it like friend.

I am writing posts like the Moogle I am to try to be cheery and keep the game fun while hunting for pesky Russians.

[Mognet]

Add a ) on the end of the link sorry MS formatted it weird!

[Mognet]

The fact that Et Al has Church of Skitter as scummy puts them immediately on my shit list. I didn't share the same concerns as everyone on S_S but I think the Church slot's reads are very natural and the questioning organic

It is bad because it is specifically Mena/Skitter whose dynamic I saw in 2181

Ya I'm honestly not sure if there is anything else that's even worth having my vote on tbh.
Cephir is probably fine
Bell is probably fine but I need to keep an open mind
Prism is probably fine but I should probably be keeping an open mind
Pooky is showing us that he is proud to be an American
gorilla seems probably fine
Equi + Reck seems fine so far but I need to keep an open mind
Sam is probably fine

These are all natural even if underexplained. I disagree with gorilla town but understand why people townread him, for example. Equi+Reck was another one that stuck out to me the same way, as is Sam. IIRC Mena had a weird theory about reading me from 2181 but that is the only moderately red flag to me here.

I disliked these posts from Prism quite a bit, but she replaced out before I could question her about them. The reasoning here in defense of Church felt strained, giving one liner reads that mostly call people townie without much support is a very easy thing to do and I don't see why she'd have found them "natural".

You realize I am Prism, well not literally that’d be awkward Kupo. We’re the same slot.

[Mognet]

viewtopic.php?p=12620673#p12620673

It looks like based on a skim, mastina and SirCakez were scum together Titus Kupo and town was eating itself alive. I wonder why Mastina was wagoned here. I also noticed the fiery one (Lady Lambdadelta) was not driving as much based on the vote counts.

Was there something that made Lady Lambdadelta drive this game and want to go speedy flame deliverer? She has a lot of posts comparatively short amount of time. (Yes I know I do but I like giving short missives but I am working on longer ones)

[Mognet]

Like this argument that "Mastina is honestly not as bad this time guys"

Is such bullshit because it covers the topic precisely. You know she is bad enough to warrant this on a good day andbyet you are defending her because it hasn't gotten that bad YET.

This is garbage posturing. If you don't wanna vote Mastina you don't have to but don't pretend this wasn't coming a long time now. Don't pretend this is something unreasonable.

Oh and also? Mastina has huge scum equity here so it's not even just a policy. Its literal win win

Like this makes me not want to vote Mastina fiery Kupo. Like I probably will to end the day when caught up but this reads like you want Mastina gone versus the idea of her being scum. I take it you find her scumreading skills bad and she is good scum is what the scum equity thing means.

I think in order to derail an entire day discussion for your read you should be able to explain it more than “Mastina sucks”. It doesn’t sit right with me Kupo. If anything this matches her ISO from Warehouse 13 in that she had very few posts and she’s bottom tier poster.

[Mognet]

Like actually marry. You want to get into this so we will get into this.

You say you follow Mastina's "vague logic".

Show me. Explain her reads as better than random.

i don't know why you're trying to call mastina scum for playstyle when she is actually a little scummy imo for her content

also please let's not all claim before the game even starts thanks!

I'm not calling Mastina scum for playstyle?

I am looking over your case and I pretty much only see playstyle here fiery Kupo. That and meta. I don’t see anything about what she’s written other than poking Marry Kupo over how Mastina got her scumreads which is quite literally unanswerable for anyone.

[Mognet]

Can someone check a stray missive in my head:

What if Lady Lambdadelta is committing vehicular manslaughter over her buddy Mastina?

Lady Lambdadelta seems a different kind of yelly than Warehouse 13.

Is this silliness?

[Mognet]

viewtopic.php?p=12559296#p12559296

Pedit: I think the Entity finds Mastina scummy and Prism’s post hilariously bad.

Has LLD attempted to reverse Mastina’s reads yet or said any other reads besides Mastina? I didn’t see any on a skim

Bear with me Kupos there’s a lot to read

[Mognet]

What if Lady Lambdadelta is committing vehicular manslaughter over her buddy Mastina?

also marry is probably scum

welcome to my wavelength

I don’t think LLD would attack two buddies and not mention any Americans. That’s very newbieesque. She doesn’t seem like a newbie. Probably LLD and Marry opposing alignments or both Americans.

[Mognet]

Interesting. Sam and Bell have different opinions. What do you make of each other?

[Mognet]

If you're trying to figure out if we're partners with opposite positioning the answer is no, I'm town.

Nope on the contrary. When I asked I found you unlikely to be partners.

I am thinking you’re both Americans with wildly different opinions so not sure which is right.

So I wanted to ask to verify my read and see if you Kupos would work together and find agreement.

[Mognet]

Anyone think it's interesting that both Prism and Mognet are doing shallow semi defenses of Mastina withouth staking their games on her?

Same slot, 2 different people, same result.

Makes you wonder if there's an outside influencing common factor that caused them to both do this

BIG THONK

Hmmm what defense am I doing exactly? I already said I would be voting her and that’s something I can be held accountable to Kupo. I am asking questions in attempt to ascertain who is town and scum before people get nuke happy.

[Mognet]

Mean NAI things Entity Kupo? This makes me sad.

I am trying to add levity to what seems to be a toxic game based on the mod ISOs.

If I am being annoying somehow Kupo please tell me. I mean no one offense or harm.

Pedit Now I am doubly sad.

[Mognet]

Mean NAI things Entity Kupo? This makes me sad.

I am trying to add levity to what seems to be a toxic game based on the mod ISOs.

If I am being annoying somehow Kupo please tell me. I mean no one offense or harm.

Pedit Now I am doubly sad.

The schtick is frustrating.

Why is it frustrating? Are you having a hard time reading me because of adding a few Kupos? It seems well received. I seem to have gotten people to talk about reads. What are yours besides Mastina scum as that’s a dead horse?

[Mognet]

Mean NAI things Entity Kupo? This makes me sad.

I am trying to add levity to what seems to be a toxic game based on the mod ISOs.

If I am being annoying somehow Kupo please tell me. I mean no one offense or harm.

Pedit Now I am doubly sad.

The schtick is frustrating.

Why is it frustrating? Are you having a hard time reading me because of adding a few Kupos? It seems well received. I seem to have gotten people to talk about reads. What are yours besides Mastina scum as that’s a dead horse?

Why do I need another read? Mastina is scum, she'll flip, and then I'll have reads from that.

You said you would vote Mastina right? What's the holdup then?

Still reading other missives.

(Assuming Mastina is scum)
Two reasons assuming you’re right you’re very likely town unless it was a planned bus to cut discussion but that’s more paranoia maybe. If you are town then scum kill you we lose that opinion and it’s not to be heard from again.
If you’re scum it gives us more to work off of which is a win win for town.

(Assuming Mastina is town)
We can use this to validate if you are scum fear pushing Mastina or trying to replicate a “I always push Mastina” habit or an intentional bus or just you hate playing with Mastina enough it clouded your judgment.

The more you give the more it helps us.

And the simple answer to your question is I am still reading while playing. I will hammer when I am good and ready (assuming she’s still viable)

[Mognet]

i think i'm willing to hammer mastina, but i want to give her a chance to speak first

I think you might be scum Dr. Strange Kupo.

[Mognet]

What if Lady Lambdadelta is committing vehicular manslaughter over her buddy Mastina?

also marry is probably scum

welcome to my wavelength

I don’t think LLD would attack two buddies and not mention any Americans. That’s very newbieesque. She doesn’t seem like a newbie. Probably LLD and Marry opposing alignments or both Americans.

what would be newbieesque is caring about something like this

It was a common trope when I learned to play mafia in person a loooooong time ago. Probably before some of you were a twinkle in your parent’s eyes or manufacturer’s eyes. You accused your buddies to start out with so you lie as little as possible.

[Mognet]

I don't like committing to things unless I feel good about them.

It's hard to feel good about anything with 24p at the table and no one resolved.

That's basically the crux of the issue. I think I'll be more expressive once I see a flip.

This is why I think you’re not American. You keep hedging way too much. You think you’ll hammer but ...

That should just be I will hammer. You’re saying I think because it’s group pressure to hammer Mastina.

See here you’re being pressured about not having a read. Then you’ll be more expressive once you know? I mean it’s easy to get people right who have flipped.

[Mognet]

?

I said what I said about the hammer, I don't get why being uncertain is AI on D1 of a game. If you think it is, then you shouldn't.

Being more expressive about reads =/= being more expressive about the flipped slot... that's simply not what I'm saying. I'm saying the flip (not necessarily mastina's, but a flip in general) will help inform my reads on other slots.

You’re being uncertain about what you’re willing to do.

I think I’d hammer
I think I’d be more expressive.

It’s too vague and not about reads.

It’s like saying “I think I will tell you a scumread by Sunday” it’s too wishy washy. Either commit or don’t to an action. It’s got all sorts of wiggle room and no accountability,

[Mognet]

I think I'm not sure I'm uncertain I don't know

these are all true things about me and I will continue to express myself this way for as long as I play mafia

Again this is a misrep. Being uncertain is fine. It’s what you’re uncertain about that is a problem.

[Mognet]

I'm starting to scumread Mognet, I actually have a really hard time believing that his contributions are coming from town because ever since he replaced in it feels like he has just stayed in the thread ever since and when I actually read his posts I feel like a lot of his contributions are being overplayed and faked. It really looks like he wants to look like town rather than just be town. I also feel like he's using this replace in to try to leave a good impression on people.

1452 also kind of doesn't fly w/ me?

We can use this to validate if you are scum fear pushing Mastina or trying to replicate a “I always push Mastina” habit or an intentional bus or just you hate playing with Mastina enough it clouded your judgment.

Why would LLD fear mastina? I find it hard to believe that LLD as scum would fear anyone.
Why would she try to replicate a "I always push mastina" habit when she could be doing quite possibly anything else? An elim is an elim sure but I'm sure LLD has better options that she look for or create.
Also the "you just hate playing w/ mastina enough it clouded your judgment" seems really silly to me tbh.

Kupo what the fuck is this?
I replace in, poke people and get people to play mafia so I am scum?
Like getting reads or anything was pulling teeth.
And I can’t very well be leaving a good impression if I am not leaving a good impression like that entire paragraph is unintelligible word vomit Church Kupo.

If LLD is scum, then she would have reason to fear Mastina if LLD wants a game where no one is thinking. You’re picking at minutia to avoid the trees. The idea with that list was not to be an exclusive one but to say if/when LLD answers we can use it to sort her.

[Mognet]

I'm starting to scumread Mognet, I actually have a really hard time believing that his contributions are coming from town because ever since he replaced in it feels like he has just stayed in the thread ever since and when I actually read his posts I feel like a lot of his contributions are being overplayed and faked. It really looks like he wants to look like town rather than just be town. I also feel like he's using this replace in to try to leave a good impression on people.

1452 also kind of doesn't fly w/ me?

We can use this to validate if you are scum fear pushing Mastina or trying to replicate a “I always push Mastina” habit or an intentional bus or just you hate playing with Mastina enough it clouded your judgment.

Why would LLD fear mastina? I find it hard to believe that LLD as scum would fear anyone.
Why would she try to replicate a "I always push mastina" habit when she could be doing quite possibly anything else? An elim is an elim sure but I'm sure LLD has better options that she look for or create.
Also the "you just hate playing w/ mastina enough it clouded your judgment" seems really silly to me tbh.

oh and remember

this slot apparently scumreads Mastina, according to them. They're not defending Mastina.

Correct LLD. I did not defend Mastina. You say this very sarcastically but again, you dodge the question I asked to do so. Mastina will be hammered, I have noted this several times. I am just attempting to get reads before nightfall and one of those is on Mastina so I won’t assume her alignment either way.

[Mognet]

oh also, how the fuck do i have an "i always push mastina" habit.

i have countless games, including the fucking large normal in team mafia where i have told mastina she was wrong, but town, and proceeded to be frustrated and live with her for the rest of the game.

It's like i'm witnessing someone try to tell me who i am or how i play when they don't know me. like, use meta against me.... but not even bother to learn my meta.

god

Every game I have been provided you have either pushed or suggested Mastina sucks. That does imply a bias LLD. I have enough to read here already but I can already tell you have a...explosive playstyle ...sorry early morning Moogles struggle for words. Can you show me a game where you didn’t attack Mastina?

I think if you can my judgment is a bit hasty. If not then my point is correct then I believe. It is possible it was too hasty for overall meta but yet I don’t see what you’re pointing out this game that is scummy which tends me to believe it’s an overall bias thing. Hell you may even be right (again I need Mastina to post to help sort her) but you’re not really selling me your read is any good when I ask for an explanation or other reads in a polite manner and instead of addressing that you’re coming in and posting this.

[Mognet]

One thing that I didn't like about Mognet is their reply to me getting them a mastina scum game that they plead for. They then wanted me to do a meta comparison between the two games which is garbage to begin with. Yet if you wanted a mastina scumgame, wouldn't you do the comparison?

Trenchcoat Kupo I am sad. You disappoint me. I did bring up some Warehouse 13 elements and started on some comparisons. You realize it has been only a few hours since then and I have only touched the surface Kupo? I wanted literal things from you not a “touchy feely” one. Kupo I assure you I will be reading anything provided during the overnight but I think you might be scum here.

Once LLD and Church Kupo poked at me, then you piled on with “One thing I didn’t like...” this is a common scum ploy. You aren’t calling me scummy like LLD and Church are. You’re saying you don’t like it. Scum wouldn’t like having to explain a prior game at a high level. I can then take your high level and then look at the minutia for tone and playstyle myself.

Replacing in is not a instantly I have read everything Kupo. You strike me as experienced and therefore should know better.

[Mognet]

I also don't really think I like this joqiza push?

i think i'm willing to hammer mastina, but i want to give her a chance to speak first

I think you might be scum Dr. Strange Kupo.

I don't like committing to things unless I feel good about them.

It's hard to feel good about anything with 24p at the table and no one resolved.

That's basically the crux of the issue. I think I'll be more expressive once I see a flip.

This is why I think you’re not American. You keep hedging way too much. You think you’ll hammer but ...

That should just be I will hammer. You’re saying I think because it’s group pressure to hammer Mastina.

See here you’re being pressured about not having a read. Then you’ll be more expressive once you know? I mean it’s easy to get people right who have flipped.

So why does his phrasing make him scum? Why would scum do that? Why is that impossible for town to do? What's the benefit and why does that benefit make it worth doing? Hell, why would he, as a villager, be more sure of himself here anyways?

Everything being described here is based on magical thinking as opposed to logical thinking.

I read 1451 and I go "oh ok" and nod along
this guy sees it and goes "ya, I think it might be scum" ?????????

?

I said what I said about the hammer, I don't get why being uncertain is AI on D1 of a game. If you think it is, then you shouldn't.

Being more expressive about reads =/= being more expressive about the flipped slot... that's simply not what I'm saying. I'm saying the flip (not necessarily mastina's, but a flip in general) will help inform my reads on other slots.

You’re being uncertain about what you’re willing to do.

I think I’d hammer
I think I’d be more expressive.

It’s too vague and not about reads.

It’s like saying “I think I will tell you a scumread by Sunday” it’s too wishy washy. Either commit or don’t to an action. It’s got all sorts of wiggle room and no accountability,

Dude brings up a point, its D1, its the hardest day in any mafia game, but this guy is sayin "NOPE, you seem unsure on if you want to hammer or not so you must be scum."

So instead of
- addressing why being uncertain is alignment indicative on D1 of a game

we are instead
- doubling down and saying nothing new.
- trying to force down this black or white viewpoint of "commit or don't" which is not as black and white as being described.

I'll give him this, he does add something new to the post by saying that it gives all sorts of wiggle room w/ no accountability, but I'll also add his posts aren't good enough to actually provide that wiggle room and make it so he won't be held accountable. Oh also regardless of the flip no one is going to hold him accountable regardless even if mastina did speak and he did want to hammer her after she sneaked anyways.

I did address it Church Kupo.
Maybe I did so in a poor manner but I did address it Church Kupo.

The issue is not that it is he is uncertain it’s what he is uncertain about. His actions are always inside his control. If we assume Joqiza an American, then alignments and reads are unknown to him. So reads “I think X is an American is fine”. However inability to commit to an action is a common scumtell. So Joqiza is in my pile until Joqiza has something actionable.

[Mognet]

One thing that I didn't like about Mognet is their reply to me getting them a mastina scum game that they plead for. They then wanted me to do a meta comparison between the two games which is garbage to begin with. Yet if you wanted a mastina scumgame, wouldn't you do the comparison?

Oh ya I get the feeling that he doesn't actually want to do like, any actual work, like at all. Like, this is very like, results-based, but most of the people I've seen who tried to play the game as well as read up at the same time never actually get caught up and have generally always been scum.

Lmao. Church Kupo. This is hilarious. You have been stuck with replacements of poor caliber. I am very results based but I usually do read during the overnights. If I didn’t want to do any work I woulda just hammered Mastina and went onto the night. You’re being very illogical. Almost like you want me to shut up which is odd. I just have to figure out if you’re annoyed Kupo or scum Kupo.

[Mognet]

What if Lady Lambdadelta is committing vehicular manslaughter over her buddy Mastina?

If she's bussing, who cares. A scum killed is a scum killed.

Seems like bad play in a game with a known SK though, and a town full of nukes. Like what's her end game? Why bus the ever living shit out of your teammate first chance you get?

I like polar bear Kupo’s question. Polar Bear Kupo can be town.

I will have to look more at LLD and find some games but she seems to me a player who would play aggressively no matter her alignment.

[Mognet]

Haven't been this confident in a scumread in a long time tbh.

On Mognet?

If so, why does Mognet's joqiza case being bad make them scummy?

-S

oh also, how the fuck do i have an "i always push mastina" habit.

I mean, your argument that mastina always ruins games and should be policy'd doesn't really make sense unless you do. So it's a pretty reasonable assumption.

-S

I like this.

A town block in my head is starting to form.

Good times. Will be ready to hammer after Alexandrian missives done later today.

[Mognet]

I think church is trying to string up mognet over an incorrect scumread and it's scummy. I don't scumread joqizahim but mognet picking at someone for hedging is a perfectly fine method of reading and his overall play is very town motivated

Yay! I have erected a house for you to come in for my block. Who else is in it gorilla?

Also let Church do their thing. They’re trying to sort me. I am not sure if it’s a scum thing or not yet but it is weird. I think LLD/Church/Titus has at least one Russian but Titus’s response seems way more scummy than Church’s.

[Mognet]

I'll hammer when I get off work today, which should be around 6pm cst

Limiting my catch-up time is scummy Kupo especially with no reads.

[Mognet]

[MCMAW SYSTEM] Attention Taskforce members, this is Command.

Soldier DeathNote has been sent a request for new messages.

Carry on soldiers.

Mod Kupo if you edit posts can you please leave the original in a spoiler please?
Thank you Mod Kupo!

[Mognet]

Haven't been this confident in a scumread in a long time tbh.

On Mognet?

If so, why does Mognet's joqiza case being bad make them scummy?

-S

his body of work reads like he's trying too hard to get recognized as town

Then explain the difference. This seems like a naked claim.

[Mognet]

I don't scumread joqizahim but mognet picking at someone for hedging is a perfectly fine method of reading and his overall play is very town motivated

This take is extremely surface level dude.
First off its not a fine method of reading it straight up isn't something that scum actually does and the logic behind it is ass. His play is town motivated if you aren't reading the game closely and you just see his posts on a glance and go "oh ya this is town ig" but to me it reads like he's doing everything to look town. I think his stance on total war comes from scum who wants to stand out in a playerlist where everyone just wants to get to the nukes. I think he's being anti-total war because if ur scum in this pl and you try to hard to actually want to play mafia, you're probably going to get townread by a bunch of people who just want to get to the nukes as quickly as possible. This also allows him to establish a platform or a "bloc" that he can invade to make sure he doesn't get nuked later. It's like the entire theme of his play.

Oh and also joq is probably town which means its more likely for the dude to be scum.

Entire theme of my play Church Kupo?

So now we’ve gone to “Hey I am trying to be town versus being town” to “oh yeah now he’s trying to townblock do he’s scum”

Like then you have to think a majority of Americans are Russians. Each player Russian hunts in their own way Kupo.

[Mognet]

I'm starting to scumread Mognet, I actually have a really hard time believing that his contributions are coming from town because ever since he replaced in it feels like he has just stayed in the thread ever since and when I actually read his posts I feel like a lot of his contributions are being overplayed and faked. It really looks like he wants to look like town rather than just be town. I also feel like he's using this replace in to try to leave a good impression on people.

1452 also kind of doesn't fly w/ me?

We can use this to validate if you are scum fear pushing Mastina or trying to replicate a “I always push Mastina” habit or an intentional bus or just you hate playing with Mastina enough it clouded your judgment.

Why would LLD fear mastina? I find it hard to believe that LLD as scum would fear anyone.
Why would she try to replicate a "I always push mastina" habit when she could be doing quite possibly anything else? An elim is an elim sure but I'm sure LLD has better options that she look for or create.
Also the "you just hate playing w/ mastina enough it clouded your judgment" seems really silly to me tbh.

Kupo what the fuck is this?
I replace in, poke people and get people to play mafia so I am scum?
Like getting reads or anything was pulling teeth.
And I can’t very well be leaving a good impression if I am not leaving a good impression like that entire paragraph is unintelligible word vomit Church Kupo.

If LLD is scum, then she would have reason to fear Mastina if LLD wants a game where no one is thinking. You’re picking at minutia to avoid the trees. The idea with that list was not to be an exclusive one but to say if/when LLD answers we can use it to sort her.

Ya bro you're trying way too hard and it comes across as scummy.

if LLD wanted a game where no one is thinking there are better players go after than mastina. She has no reason to fear her. It's also a pretty garbage sorting attempt that probably just gets re-evaluated later and does nothing. tbh we'll probably not even come back to it so it actually just does nothing

You have just repeated the same and I’m trying to hard??

Like this is not fruitful. I explain my thoughts Kupo. Then I narrow down on what’s right and wrong. I make hypothesis and adjust as time goes on.

[Mognet]

The issue is not that it is he is uncertain it’s what he is uncertain about. His actions are always inside his control. If we assume Joqiza an American, then alignments and reads are unknown to him. So reads “I think X is an American is fine”. However inability to commit to an action is a common scumtell. So Joqiza is in my pile until Joqiza has something actionable.

"common scumtell"
So you're actually not thinking at all because the game isn't this black and white. There are things like OMGUS and LAMIST and other buzzwords that people have used and historically speaking those things apparently catch scum but now those things end up being used by newer players that don't fundamentally understand how those things work along with other "common scumtells." To me this reads like you're just going after a "common scumtell" over actually use your brain and think "Is what this guy doing actually make him scum? Is this something that scum actually does? Why is he doing it? etc" and if you answered these questions then you'll find that your read is shit because you're going after a "common scumtell." It's a "common scumtell" so its gotta work!

Nothing almost ever is black and white Kupo.

Common scum tells are a great place to start.

Then if Joqiza does something that makes me townread them I reevaluate.

[Mognet]

I'll hammer when I get off work today, which should be around 6pm cst

Limiting my catch-up time is scummy Kupo especially with no reads.

BRO YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN CATCHING UP YOU'VE JUST BEEN PLAYING SHUT THE FUCK UP

IF YOU'RE GOING TO CATCH UP AND READ THE GAME, GO FUCKING READ THE GAME INSTEAD OF PLAY

I can do both Kupo.

Read while quiet and respond when I do.

These are not mutually exclusive

[Mognet]

Moggers might be scum.

Ff9 Kupo say what now?

What are your other reads?

[Mognet]

Mognet I guess I don't really understand your issue with me. When I say something like "I think I'll be more expressive" or "I think I'll hammer" it's predicated with "I think" because it's a prediction of future behavior. If I wanted to commit to this I'd say something like "I promise to hammer" (note at this point I have actually gone ahead and given that commitment to hammer.)

At any given point I try to communicate in a way that is accurate to how I feel in the game. It's worth pointing out too that there's nothing prevent scum from saying "I'll do X" and then just... finding a reason not to do it.

As I've said before, if your issue with me is that I'm uncertain in the first place I think that you portraying something which is not scummy as a scumtell. On D1 of any game town is operating with minimal information, and any given player you wagon is likely to flip town just from prior probability. Of course, it's patently ridiculous to use that as a reason not to lim anyone, so the reality is you need to make a judgement call on who at the table is likely to flip +scum above rand. Overall the nature of D1 doesn't justify inaction, but it does justify uncertainty.

To me it feels like you are SR'ing me for the way I express myself which is why I react strongly to it I guess. If that's not your point then please clarify but I'm pretty sure I'm just the kind of person who says "I think I'll do X" rather than "I'll do X" and it's not really like I'm going to change that.

Again it’s not your lack of commitment it’s what about.

You are in 100% control of your actions.
Uncertainty about some things is warranted

But “Maybe I will hammer or maybe I will vote” are things in your control. Unprompted maybes are just stretches for content more so than hunting.

[Mognet]

I think I'll nuke the Mognet

Nuke away Church. I will watch from dead thread assuming I am not saved or some such.

[Mognet]

I'll hammer when I get off work today, which should be around 6pm cst

Limiting my catch-up time is scummy Kupo especially with no reads.

BRO YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN CATCHING UP YOU'VE JUST BEEN PLAYING SHUT THE FUCK UP

IF YOU'RE GOING TO CATCH UP AND READ THE GAME, GO FUCKING READ THE GAME INSTEAD OF PLAY

I can do both Kupo.

Read while quiet and respond when I do.

These are not mutually exclusive

No you can't because you can't understand how we got to this point in time w/o having read the game.
Most scum say this and never actually read-up.
I want you to shut up.
I want you to read.
I want you to give the thread some fucking space to breathe.

And when you're done, then play.
Because I feel like you're just saying this w/o actually reading up, and its fine to not read the game just be honest with yourself about it. You don't have to read every game you replace into, but saying you will when you're not at all doing that and then accusing someone of limiting your catch-up time is wack

Reads are both high level and in the weeds.

People didn’t care before I posted. Now they do.

I would rather keep to my strategy which works for me.

You’re asking to give space to breathe but yet, there’s no damage to the thread?

So I have to respond to Alexandrian missives now but I am doing both. I just won’t spam the thread with every post like this one dude I know. Omg when he replaces in its sooo annoying. That guy just like posts every damn post of his replace in.

[Mognet]

Mognet when someone says "I think I'll go ahead and get myself a glass of water" do you start wondering "DAMN I wonder if they're going to get themselves a glass of water??? They said 'I think' that's so noncommital to whether they want that water or not."

That's what this push feels like to me.

Then you’re trivializing it Kupo. If someone said that IRL and I was at the fridge I would get it or ask them what they wanted. Again it’s not the uncertainty that is the question. It’s the motivation behind it and the context and the why. “I think I will vote” and “I think I will hammer” are common scum tells and if it’s really so nebulous you’d just move on and just hunt.

[Mognet]

Mognet, I am depressed. Me not liking something =/= scum necessarily. It's me seeking feedback.

I don't even read on subbing in. I don't expect you to have read the entire thread but I am annoyed when I have to use what mental energy I do have to do more than you with the data you ask for and I rarely review past games.

Also, by focusing on LLD's perceived bias you are defending mastina because you are attempting to cut down LLD's argument.

Examining an argument critically is not the same as “attempting to cut it down”. Applying what you do to others is a bad standard Kupo,

Sorry you’re depressed but I think with a qualifier like necessarily you’re scum. You’re wanting people to post about me negatively.

[Mognet]

NUKE: POOKYBEAR

Hydra disagreement or scumslip?

[Mognet]

Mognet when someone says "I think I'll go ahead and get myself a glass of water" do you start wondering "DAMN I wonder if they're going to get themselves a glass of water??? They said 'I think' that's so noncommital to whether they want that water or not."

That's what this push feels like to me.

Then you’re trivializing it Kupo. If someone said that IRL and I was at the fridge I would get it or ask them what they wanted. Again it’s not the uncertainty that is the question. It’s the motivation behind it and the context and the why. “I think I will vote” and “I think I will hammer” are common scum tells and if it’s really so nebulous you’d just move on and just hunt.

I actually am hunting btw, there's a reason I'm fixated on this and you can call it OMGUS but the cool thing about this setup is I only need to convince one person: myself

You've said that the "motivation and context" behind my vote is scummy but you've failed to sufficiently explain to me why that is true. I've tried to understand your perspective and I've offered my own and you seem unable to understand it. If you genuinely think saying "I think I'll hammer" is a scumtell then I suppose you'll need to do some revision to your methodology. As it is I think we're done here.

I don’t think so. Starting with a common scum tell and then poking them and then if they are Townie back off is a good MO and I see little reason to change that.

You shouldn’t be aiming to understand where I am coming from but instead just be town which you’re not.

I can be horrible with my explanations in missives Kupo. There’s a specific type of hedging that is scum related and you’re doing it.

[Mognet]

I wonder who breaks first on signing posts between me and Ali

Which head(s) wants to nuke Pooky and why?
Which head(s) wants to nuke me and why?

Pooky has not been talked about much. Seems an odd choice Kupo.

[Mognet]

I wonder who breaks first on signing posts between me and Ali

Which head(s) wants to nuke Pooky and why?
Which head(s) wants to nuke me and why?

Pooky has not been talked about much. Seems an odd choice Kupo.

Ali-head wants to nuke you

me-head is going to nuke the entity

I have no idea what kupo means but I'm not actually planning on nukin the pookin atp

Think of Kupo like friend. I linked what it means earlier in thread. Where’s the why?

Then why fake a nuke on Pooky? It’s literally impossible like you said.

[Mognet]

Mognet, I am depressed. Me not liking something =/= scum necessarily. It's me seeking feedback.

I don't even read on subbing in. I don't expect you to have read the entire thread but I am annoyed when I have to use what mental energy I do have to do more than you with the data you ask for and I rarely review past games.

Also, by focusing on LLD's perceived bias you are defending mastina because you are attempting to cut down LLD's argument.

Examining an argument critically is not the same as “attempting to cut it down”. Applying what you do to others is a bad standard Kupo,

Sorry you’re depressed but I think with a qualifier like necessarily you’re scum. You’re wanting people to post about me negatively.

So the fact I seek feedback on something I don't like necessarily makes me scum?

People could post that I was wrong to dislike your response to me, which is why I posted it like I did. So why would you suppose people would post negatively to my statement?

You can critically examine a statement, but that necessarily defends a slot. It's not an outright defense saying mastina is town but it necessarily implies mastina could be town.

If you think I am scum, you're welcome to nuke me.

Moogles are pacifist by nature Kupo. It’s not the fact you’re seeing feedback it’s now. It’s poisoning the well.

Instead of “I don’t like “blah”, a neutral ask is “What do you think about blah?” Scum will inherently cling onto negativity that suits their purpose and it’s an insidious way to sneak negativity in about a slot.

And no, that’s not how that works. At all. Asking questions is not defense. If I went “Mastina is town” that’s defense. Reasoning can be incorrect but the end result is still right.

Eg if I said 2+2 = 5 and therefore SirCakez is the mod, it’s still correct Sircakez is the mod but analyzing 2+2 is 5 is not a defense of SirCakez.

The Mastina scum argument boils down to LLD says so so I need to analyze her and see if it’s a bias and if it’s justified to form my Mastina read.

[Mognet]

I wonder who breaks first on signing posts between me and Ali

Which head(s) wants to nuke Pooky and why?
Which head(s) wants to nuke me and why?

Pooky has not been talked about much. Seems an odd choice Kupo.

Ali-head wants to nuke you

me-head is going to nuke the entity

I have no idea what kupo means but I'm not actually planning on nukin the pookin atp

Think of Kupo like friend. I linked what it means earlier in thread. Where’s the why?

Then why fake a nuke on Pooky? It’s literally impossible like you said.

I may or may not see that depending on if it's before or after pg43 which is where I'm catching up from

...bc I thought it would be fun(ny)? idk, I didn't really consider it

This was an intentional act.

If you don’t know why you’re doing intentional things that’s a cause for concern.

Reaction test, because lack of Pooky post, because where I last caught up Dude was scummy all possible reasons.

You intentionally typed Nuke Pooky and so I don’t know is not a reasonable answer.

[Mognet]

This was an intentional act.

If you don’t know why you’re doing intentional things that’s a cause for concern.

Reaction test, because lack of Pooky post, because where I last caught up Dude was scummy all possible reasons.

You intentionally typed Nuke Pooky and so I don’t know is not a reasonable answer.

yes, the intention was "I thought it would be funny"

what are you expecting here lol

What you get out of it Kupo.

Did you think the thread was toxic? Did it need levity?

Why bring in Pooky and try to change topics?

I am looking for the motivation of what you’re doing.

How does this post help you find scum?

If it doesn’t why make it? I may post a lot but each post has a clear direction towards finding scum/poking issues/explaining my reads.

[Mognet]

maybe prism depending on mastina!flip

to be clear, I mean if mastina!scum then prism!town seems likely

if mastina!town, prism!scum probably

I am Prism how you doin?

[Mognet]

absolutely nothing?

I made it because I thought it would be amusing

idk why ur struggling with that idea

Why was amusement needed there? You seem disconnected. I can’t figure out your thought process. Usually (assuming this is Menalque Kupo) you are a lot easier to sort.

[Mognet]

as in literally prism or just you mean you are that slot?

Just that slot Kupo. I replaced Prism.

[Mognet]

1586 >> Fair Kupo! I get asked if I am a human a lot. Moogles can have weird customs.
1587 >> Not sure how you’re defining that, so I will go with enough.

Also what are your thoughts on Skitter?

[Mognet]

i didnt see yours!! i'm in olympia!!!!!!!

The Olympia area is where I'm pretty sure my various nephews (from my rather promiscuous half-brother) are!

I'm also somewhat familiar with the Renton area due to teen square dance clubs that were homed there.

LLD is going to have an aneurysm if all of EM winds up townblocking
Meanwhile I forget that the year is no longer 2016/2017 where I ran the table and all these EM Zoomers who never heard of me have replaced me. It's like I've replaced the old 2011/2013 elitists, I'm the boomer now

You think 2011-2013 EMer makes you old, try being a 2008-2010 EMer. I was on EpicMafia prominently before I was on mafiascum prominently and actually honed my skills there pretty well, and often in weeks had like top-20 placements on the weekly leaderboard without ever going too high (which I was fine with as being the highest gave burden of proficiency and got you policy-nk'd).

YDRA IS TOWN
PRAISE JEEBUS

Pooky can soulread Ydrasse btw so Ydrasse is locktown. I was already thinking town but if Pooky says Ydrasse is town, then Ydrasse is town.

i think dcl left all their games so i don't find their replacement ai.

This is not knowledge I had; the knowledge I had is that dcl confirmed but never posted in this game per the mod which looked suspect. If dcl didn't leave all their games, but left this one, that would in fact be suspicious, indicating a reason to not want to be in this game. Leaving all games does indeed make it not alignment indicative, sure--but I've some reason to suspect the slot from the replacement

anyway

in that this VFP is not the town VFP that I've seen before.

PookyTheMagicalBear
gorilla
Prism
Bell
Untrod Tripod/Merlot
joqiza
mary
Lady Lambdadelta
Cephrir
samantha97
DeathNote

Equinox/The Entity
Save the Dragons
Nexus
DeasVail

Robert M Hunter
Titus

Vaxkiller

Toogeloo

The Church of Skitter (Alisae/Menalque)
T3
deep-city-lights/VFP

Et Al (Skitter/SS)

Locktown townread lean town null lean scum scumread scum.

Hmmm I agree with most of this read list.

Mastina come post some please.

[Mognet]

1586 >> Fair Kupo! I get asked if I am a human a lot. Moogles can have weird customs.
1587 >> Not sure how you’re defining that, so I will go with enough.

Also what are your thoughts on Skitter?

I feel like I recognise ur tone but I can't put my finger one who it is exactly

aorn nothing tbh. maybe v slightly +town? I feel like she would have been maybe a bit more conciliatory to me at the v beginning of the game if she were scum but I feel like within our dynamic it's often kinda hard to predict if town reading the other is going to increase paranoia or make the other feel better

if we get the chance to have some live interactions I can prob get a better grasp on that slot

Good Kupo! I replaced in an alt for a reason. If you figure out my alternate form please keep it to yourself.

I like Menalque head and not Alisae head. Alisae head may be fishing for reactions. Sometimes it’s hard to tell with e. Church kupo can go back to null.

[Mognet]

vax town?

nexus maybe town?

Titus scum?

oh wait maybe nexus not town, just got to 1237 lol

Your reads are my reads. I like it and hate it.

Go talk to Alisae and sync up please.

Both of you are like worlds apart.

The dissonance is jarring.

[Mognet]

i'd probably get rid of mognet over mastina at this point if it were viable

i THINK i would MAYBE POTENTIALLY be willing to hammer mastina at this point too though but wouldn't mind her jumping in the thread

one thing i didn't like about mognet was how they just kind of used "scumtells" and decided they equated to scum without really critically thinking about it

what other scumtells can i drop in this post that will trigger kupo

Dragon Kupo say what now?

I literally have been saying do a scum tell you go in my scum pile then I examine your posts more. I have and am critically thinking about it and explained it several times.

If it’s just a moogle thing then fine but I assure you I am thinking critically.

[Mognet]

yeah, will do

Ali!head specifically asked me to try to figure out if you're actually scum or if e's just annoyed with you, but I think that prism's defence of mastina says strongly not aligned given the gamestate when it happened so I think I'd rather just sort you by proxy

However you want to sort me go for it.

Although I may have to poof for long stretches. Some Alexandrian missives take a while.

[Mognet]

I don't scumread joqizahim but mognet picking at someone for hedging is a perfectly fine method of reading and his overall play is very town motivated

This take is extremely surface level dude.
First off its not a fine method of reading it straight up isn't something that scum actually does and the logic behind it is ass. His play is town motivated if you aren't reading the game closely and you just see his posts on a glance and go "oh ya this is town ig" but to me it reads like he's doing everything to look town. I think his stance on total war comes from scum who wants to stand out in a playerlist where everyone just wants to get to the nukes. I think he's being anti-total war because if ur scum in this pl and you try to hard to actually want to play mafia, you're probably going to get townread by a bunch of people who just want to get to the nukes as quickly as possible. This also allows him to establish a platform or a "bloc" that he can invade to make sure he doesn't get nuked later. It's like the entire theme of his play.

Oh and also joq is probably town which means its more likely for the dude to be scum.

If I read his playstyle correctly, Mognet as scum will slip.
That playstyle is almost unsustainable for scum.

To be fair, the playstyle I use as scum is hard to maintain unless experienced. I am a feared scum player though. I am not scum but I wouldn’t treat someone you don’t know as incapable of doing things.

That being said I think Kupo town told.

[Mognet]

Also my last post on the BAWWWWWW ENTITY IS MEAN topic and then I'm not gonna address it anymore, and it's a quote from Equinox:
what i fucking hate about the current meta is how people think it's okay to make shit completely unreadable "because it's fun"

And then when people get upset that the hyperposting has made the game nigh unreadable and a CHORE to get thru, everyone's like "don't be mean they're just having fun"
Only one type of fun allowed 'round these parts and that's the one where shit is unreadable and anybody who can't live on the internet 24 hours a day doesn't get to fucking participate

Town. If anyone says Entity isn’t town Fite me.

Your gorilla read sucks though. Gorilla imho is obvTown.

[Mognet]

okay but we're still nuking u tho @entity

also "unreadable" is like a strong word, I've had about an hour for this game today after not checking it for like 3 days and am nearly caught up so failing to see how hyper posting is/was a problem here at all

Nearly caught up? Doesn’t realize I am Prism slot. Like what?

I don’t think I trust you with nukes. You keep picking townreads. Titus would be a much better nuke but alas I am a pacifist.

[Mognet]

Mognet, I am depressed. Me not liking something =/= scum necessarily. It's me seeking feedback.

I don't even read on subbing in. I don't expect you to have read the entire thread but I am annoyed when I have to use what mental energy I do have to do more than you with the data you ask for and I rarely review past games.

Also, by focusing on LLD's perceived bias you are defending mastina because you are attempting to cut down LLD's argument.

Examining an argument critically is not the same as “attempting to cut it down”. Applying what you do to others is a bad standard Kupo,

Sorry you’re depressed but I think with a qualifier like necessarily you’re scum. You’re wanting people to post about me negatively.

So the fact I seek feedback on something I don't like necessarily makes me scum?

People could post that I was wrong to dislike your response to me, which is why I posted it like I did. So why would you suppose people would post negatively to my statement?

You can critically examine a statement, but that necessarily defends a slot. It's not an outright defense saying mastina is town but it necessarily implies mastina could be town.

If you think I am scum, you're welcome to nuke me.

Moogles are pacifist by nature Kupo. It’s not the fact you’re seeing feedback it’s now. It’s poisoning the well.

Instead of “I don’t like “blah”, a neutral ask is “What do you think about blah?” Scum will inherently cling onto negativity that suits their purpose and it’s an insidious way to sneak negativity in about a slot.

And no, that’s not how that works. At all. Asking questions is not defense. If I went “Mastina is town” that’s defense. Reasoning can be incorrect but the end result is still right.

Eg if I said 2+2 = 5 and therefore SirCakez is the mod, it’s still correct Sircakez is the mod but analyzing 2+2 is 5 is not a defense of SirCakez.

The Mastina scum argument boils down to LLD says so so I need to analyze her and see if it’s a bias and if it’s justified to form my Mastina read.

I'm not neutral though. Pretending to be is hiding my own bias. Seeking feedback while hiding my bias is wrong.

If you felt LLD was right, you'd say so. You could easily state LLD is right, but she's biased. That would be the equivalent of saying 2+2 =5 therefore SirCakez is the mod. Here, you're saying 2+2=/=5 therefore mastina might not be scum. That's a defense. Also, you've seen evidence, provided by me, that LLD can be this vocal, correct and town.

Yes. Hiding one’s bias helps to get honest answers when sorting. Seeking feedback is best done hiding one’s bias then once you got the response explain thoughts. Otherwise it’s poisoning the well.

If LLD was right then she’d be able to explain it. Being unable to explain a scumread means she likely is biased. If I can’t take bias into account then there is no case on Mastina. It means she’s neutral. That’s not a defense that’s sorting. If LLD is correct she can explain it. It is not a defense of Mastina it is analyzing what I am given. If she posts scummy then she’s scummy. Her reads seem solid and it’s a dogpile on Mastina because LLD says so. The game was toxic. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mastina flips town and people voted her because toxicity.

Yes she can be vocal and correct and town. She can also be vocal correct and scum. She can be vocal incorrect as either alignment too. She seems to have more in common with vocal and incorrect.

[Mognet]

People have a tendency to want to end toxicity ASAP.

It’s the reason I overdid the Kupos at the start. If people laugh and have fun you can get genuine reads.

[Mognet]

I don't scumread joqizahim but mognet picking at someone for hedging is a perfectly fine method of reading and his overall play is very town motivated

This take is extremely surface level dude.
First off its not a fine method of reading it straight up isn't something that scum actually does and the logic behind it is ass. His play is town motivated if you aren't reading the game closely and you just see his posts on a glance and go "oh ya this is town ig" but to me it reads like he's doing everything to look town. I think his stance on total war comes from scum who wants to stand out in a playerlist where everyone just wants to get to the nukes. I think he's being anti-total war because if ur scum in this pl and you try to hard to actually want to play mafia, you're probably going to get townread by a bunch of people who just want to get to the nukes as quickly as possible. This also allows him to establish a platform or a "bloc" that he can invade to make sure he doesn't get nuked later. It's like the entire theme of his play.

Oh and also joq is probably town which means its more likely for the dude to be scum.

If I read his playstyle correctly, Mognet as scum will slip.
That playstyle is almost unsustainable for scum.

To be fair, the playstyle I use as scum is hard to maintain unless experienced. I am a feared scum player though. I am not scum but I wouldn’t treat someone you don’t know as incapable of doing things.

That being said I think Kupo town told.

Please, tell me that you are not Farkran.

As I said earlier I will not say who I am Kupo. This also means I will not say who I am not either.

[Mognet]

i'd probably get rid of mognet over mastina at this point if it were viable

i THINK i would MAYBE POTENTIALLY be willing to hammer mastina at this point too though but wouldn't mind her jumping in the thread

one thing i didn't like about mognet was how they just kind of used "scumtells" and decided they equated to scum without really critically thinking about it

what other scumtells can i drop in this post that will trigger kupo

Dragon Kupo say what now?

I literally have been saying do a scum tell you go in my scum pile then I examine your posts more. I have and am critically thinking about it and explained it several times.

If it’s just a moogle thing then fine but I assure you I am thinking critically.

i think you say you have but i'm not so sure that you actually have

but i do like being called dragon kupo so maybe we shouldn't lim you after all

If this many people are asking me the same question repeatedly then it’s possible I have done a bad job at doing so. The other option is scum poked me to try to get a rise out of me. It’s simple. You are in control of own actions/promises. An unprompted “I think I will” needs an explanation. Scum use this to avoid accountability. It’s really common.

We probably should elim Mastina I just want as many reads as possible before night fall. Then when people inevitably decide to hero we’re better off.

[Mognet]

Scum use this to avoid accountability.

Town do it too.

Town do it too, but to a much lesser extent and usually they back it up with town content. That’s why I stated how I operate. If someone gives a scumtell I scumread them and poke them. If they towntell I undo the read. It’s much much more likely from scum than town. Especially in a game where people give 0 fucks as it’s just “nukes”.

[Mognet]

I'm bored at work and I want to start nuking

This is a huge playstyle shift.

Nukes are final. Then he’s wishy washy over whether he’d hammer Mastina to get there. It’s odd.

And I am reading Alisae Kupo.

This is the kind of shit that is off. It’s a deviation that is wishy washy

[Mognet]

At best this implies Joqiza is no longer bored, but then what has him enthused? I dunno.

Is he just picking up on “I wanna nuke sentiment” which seems scummy, yeah probably.

[Mognet]

IF WE HAD GONE TOTAL WAR WE COULDVE WON ALREADY AND BEEN SIGNING UP FOR DEFCON 6.0 ALREADY BUT INSTEAD PEOPLE ARE TWIDDLING THEIR THUMBS WONDERING IF WE ARE SOMEHOW VIOLATING MASTINAS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS BY RUNNING HER UP WITHOUT A FAIR TRIAL OR REPRESENTATION OR WHATEVER

I am an American so I care about that shit or whatever.

Are you an American Bear Kupo?

[Mognet]

Total war should honestly just be set to default

Why? We should be discussing things. It helps us that are not pacifists to aim nukes properly.

[Mognet]

SOUNDS LIKE LAWYER TALK TO ME

A close friend of mine is a lawyer. Guess they rub off on me.

[Mognet]

Total war should honestly just be set to default

Why? We should be discussing things. It helps us that are not pacifists to aim nukes properly.

Bro I get to nuke people

I wanna nuke people and do it asap

And I don’t trust your Alisae head or your reads so I don’t want you to do it ASAP.

[Mognet]

Total war should honestly just be set to default

Why? We should be discussing things. It helps us that are not pacifists to aim nukes properly.

Bro I get to nuke people

I wanna nuke people and do it asap

And I don’t trust your Alisae head or your reads so I don’t want you to do it ASAP.

fuck u I wanna have fun

More than one way to do that. I don’t trust you with a nuke. Leaving this here. Remember this people.

[Mognet]

Have u ever pushed the shiny red button and nuked someone before?

No?

Exactly

Nope. Pacifism is much more fun.

[Mognet]

Every game I have been provided you have either pushed or suggested Mastina sucks.

I think it's important to note there is a world of difference between these two things

My point is that there isn’t a game that LLD thinks positively of Mastina. That’s a bias.

[Mognet]

If you come in predetermined a player sucks, you will find a way they suck.

[Mognet]

My point is that there isn’t a game that LLD thinks positively of Mastina. That’s a bias.

WHAT DOES POSITIVE HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER SOMEONE IS SCUM OR NOT

It comes from analyzing their read.

If they always think someone is scum/bad, it turns into the lady who cried scum.

It’s meaningless.

If every game I played in I said SirCakez was scum/bad and then repeated it, at some point it’s like “yeah uhhuh sure” and we note that I always scumread SirCakez.

If LLD has a record of being positive and negative towards Mastina that gives their meta read weight.

[Mognet]

Instead her arguments are about playstyle and wordiness which is kicking someone off for playing differently than you,

[Mognet]

DO YOU HAVE A RECORD OF LLD ALWAYS CALLING MASTINA SCUM ?

Every game provided here she has called Mastina scum soooo seems accurate to me

[Mognet]

Every game provided here she has called Mastina scum soooo seems accurate to me

THIS IS LITERALLY NOT EVEN TRUE

It is though.

327 >> Waits for a read list to invert before Mastina even posts reads. This implies Mastina is scum regardless of what alignment she draws. The literal definition of always thinking someone is scum.

[Mognet]

No she did not. She identified her as working against town which is scum. She labeled her alignment correctly but still wanted her gone.

She says Mastina should go here because her playstyle sucks. She said in 327 she wanted Mastina’s reads inverted because she sucks.

That’s a known bias.

[Mognet]

That known bias means I agree she wants Mastina gone but doesn’t tell me anything about Mastina’s alignment

[Mognet]

Once LLD and Church Kupo poked at me, then you piled on with “One thing I didn’t like...” this is a common scum ploy. You aren’t calling me scummy like LLD and Church are. You’re saying you don’t like it.

I think you know perfectly well what "not liking it" means. If you claim you don't, then I will point out that "common scum ploy" also isnt calling titus scummy. You seem quite interested in ~what scum commonly do~. I'm more interested in what they are actually doing, here, today

Until I get a hold on everyone, it’s common scum yes. Get some intro reads out the adjust as time goes. I am concerned about what scum are doing now. I just think I have a lot of townreads so I am good for now and will end the day after work and the rest is just PoE

[Mognet]

Sorry you’re depressed but I think with a qualifier like necessarily you’re scum. You’re wanting people to post about me negatively.

What?????????????????

Titus posted (paraphrase) “One thing I don’t like about Mog is ...” “doesn’t necessarily make me scum (but I am)” (parenthesis my emphasis) it’s a slanted way to post

[Mognet]

viewtopic.php?f=160&t=85745

^

IN THIS GAME LLD SAYS MASTINA IS TOWN AND THEY SHOULD INVERT MASTINAS READSLIST AND KILL THE TOP OF IT.

3/4 OF MASTINAS TOP TOWNREADS IN THIS GAME WERE SCUM SO THEY PROBABLY JUST WIN IF THEY LISTEN TO LLD

INSTEAD THEY ELIM LLD

TOWN LOSES THIS GAME BTW

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85923

^

IN THIS GAME MASTINA IS SCUM, LLD IS TOWN

LLD DOES NOT DO THE INVERTED READLIST THING ON MASTINA - MASTINAS SCUM READLIST BTW HAD ALL TOWN IN THE TOP READS OR WHATEVER

SHE ALSO DOES NOT PUSH FOR MASTINA TO DIE ON D1 SHE INSTEAD PUSHES CAKES WHO WAS ALSO SCUM.

SO YOUR COMPLAINT ABOUT LLD BEING BIASED AND WANTING TO AUTOYEET MASTINA IS JUST NONSENSE

Again LLD thought in both those games Mastina was antitown. She has not had a game (or had one shared) in which she notices the good in Mastina. I think you’re not understanding my point here Pooky. She always thinks Mastina is bad, bad town or bad scum. So she’s more inclined to want to yeet Mastina which makes her biased.

[Mognet]

are we not hammered yet whats the votecount

Still 12. Using my sweet time to catch up and poke around

[Mognet]

Again LLD thought in both those games Mastina was antitown. She has not had a game (or had one shared) in which she notices the good in Mastina. I think you’re not understanding my point here Pooky. She always thinks Mastina is bad, bad town or bad scum. So she’s more inclined to want to yeet Mastina which makes her biased.

EXCEPT SHE LITERALLY DIDNT WANT TO YEET MASTINA D1 IN EITHER GAME I LINKED SO WHERE ARE YOU COMING UP WITH THIS SHE ALWAYS WANTS TO YEET MASTINA NONSENSE FROM

She did. She asked MathBlade to vote Mastina in D1 on Warehouse 13.
In the other game she says to invert the reads which means she views Mastina as a liability to town which is an inherent want to be gone.

So yes she always wants to yeet Mastina

[Mognet]

People tend to have a predisposition towards yeeting people. It’s not a bad thing, it naturally happens. It’s just when you know you have that bias you then have to be sure you can explain why so you know it’s valid and not some predisposition kicking in. If you can’t explain why the person you’re pushing is probably town despite how bad you want to elim them.

[Mognet]

Eg in that game people had a predisposition towards yeeting MathBlade. Dude was annoying and his posts want to make me cry so I get it but that doesn’t make him scum. Similarly finding Mastina’s walls annoying is not a reason she is scum.

[Mognet]

Oh yes. Screaming like a temper tantrum will want me to stop poking people and forming reads and hammer. /s

[Mognet]

Btw if you have to have a rule like LLDs then you’re not doing your part to make towns better.

If you really think that’s a valid rule you should be working with them during that game on ways to get better reads or even after the game. Keeping a rule like that does not promote good site health. It promotes a “good” and a “bad” player list. You can say Mastina is functionally bad and I don’t give a rats ass. If you’re not helping “bad” players to improve you’re worse.

[Mognet]

It promotes the ideas of always playing with “good” friends and is cliquey as fuck.

So yeah anyone with a predisposition towards thinking someone is bad has to explain why they are scum in that game.

[Mognet]

Again LLD thought in both those games Mastina was antitown. She has not had a game (or had one shared) in which she notices the good in Mastina. I think you’re not understanding my point here Pooky. She always thinks Mastina is bad, bad town or bad scum. So she’s more inclined to want to yeet Mastina which makes her biased.

EXCEPT SHE LITERALLY DIDNT WANT TO YEET MASTINA D1 IN EITHER GAME I LINKED SO WHERE ARE YOU COMING UP WITH THIS SHE ALWAYS WANTS TO YEET MASTINA NONSENSE FROM

She did. She asked MathBlade to vote Mastina in D1 on Warehouse 13.
In the other game she says to invert the reads which means she views Mastina as a liability to town which is an inherent want to be gone.

So yes she always wants to yeet Mastina

WHAT ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT SHE NEVER EVEN VOTED MASTINA IN WH13

SHE ALSO NEVER VOTED MASTINA IN THAT OTHER GAME

ITS LIKE YOU ARE LIVING ON FANTASY ISLAND

Again, your prompt wasn’t voting. It was wanting to yeet. She wanted to yeet Mastina. She wanted to have MathBlade vote Mastina.

In the other game I have stated this numerous times. She wanted Mastina’s reads list inverted.

[Mognet]

You should be able to form your own read on mastina. Shit or get off the pot.

Mastina’s not posting and she’s the inevitable elim anyway when I replaced in. How people read her and why and who else is scum is much more important.

Entity — Good point. Has anyone seen Mastina? Is she VLA?

[Mognet]

In the other game I have stated this numerous times. She wanted Mastina’s reads list inverted.

This still isn't the same as seeking an elim. I can't tell if you have an agenda to discredit LLD here or just can't admit that your point sucks

It’s a bias is my point. I legit don’t get how you don’t see this.

If you think a player is bad you’re gonna see bad everywhere
If you think a player is good you’re gonna think their farts don’t stink.

[Mognet]

Again, your prompt wasn’t voting. It was wanting to yeet. She wanted to yeet Mastina. She wanted to have MathBlade vote Mastina.

In the other game I have stated this numerous times. She wanted Mastina’s reads list inverted.

LOL WHAT SHE WANTED TO YEET CAKE THATS WHY SHE VOTED CAKE

IN THE OTHER GAME SHE WANTED TO INVERT MASTINAS READSLIST

IT WAS LITERALLY 3/4 SCUM AT THE TOP SO IT WOULDVE WON THE GAME FOR THE TOWN

DO YOU WANT TO WIN OR DANCE AROUND A FIRE SINGING KUMBAYA?

You can want to yeet more than one person.

And I want both. We can have fun and not yell and scream and sing kumbaya.

[Mognet]

WHO CARES IF ITS BIAS OR NOT IF SHE CAN CORRECTLY IDENTIFY MASTINA SCUM

I DONT CARE IF LLD HAS AN INHERENT BIAS AGAINST MASTINA

I CARE IF MASTINA IS GOING TO FLIP AS RUSSKIE SCUM

I do because I have no way of knowing whether it’s the bias or if she did identify Mastina scum.

I have asked for an explanation and not gotten it.

I care if she’s going to flip Ruskie scum too but I think scum are much more likely to be sheeping LLD than Mastina scum because LLD has a bias and can’t explain her read. If Mastina is Ruskie scum that’s awesome Kupo.

[Mognet]

You should be able to form your own read on mastina. Shit or get off the pot.

Mastina’s not posting and she’s the inevitable elim anyway when I replaced in. How people read her and why and who else is scum is much more important.

Entity — Good point. Has anyone seen Mastina? Is she VLA?

If you feel mastina is town, then you should still try to swing the wagon away. If you feel she's scum, you should be ok with a hammer.

Plus, sorting her helps see the genuineness of arguments here. Your refusal to sort mastina is baffling. You're attempting to have it both ways. Shade the attacker (LLD) but don't call mastina town.

No. That’s not always the case Kupo. Sometimes it is more damaging to try to take control of a game like that.

It is usually better to provide facts. I find it more likely that Mastina is town. Is it enough to be rah rah rah Mastina town listen to me roar no.

There’s been no wagon above two people besides Mastina the entire day. In a game that size this is odd.

This implies either an intentional bus or scum don’t care and are okay sheeping Mastina wagon death.

[Mognet]

I am also not shading LLD. I am shading the lack of justification anyone is providing except LLD says so.

Very few people are playing the game, which is a scum mindset that things are fine why effort.

[Mognet]

And LLD doesn’t have an explanation,

It seems more like people are afraid of her than agree with her or just want the day done.

Pedit: Kupos always try to help their humans. It’s our job to prevent death except of Russian scum.

[Mognet]

If that's your goal you are playing the wrong game, my friend. There's a lot of bloodshed in DEFCON, historically.

Oh there is. I just want targeted bloodshed at Ruskie scum only Kupo.

[Mognet]

What a glorious day.

We are AMERICANS.

Mastina is A COMMIE BASTARD.

And other people did the trolling of voting against Total War before I had to.

GOD BLESS the US AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I mean, my first post in the game before LLD was even on her "lim mastina" kick was to say that mastina was probably scum.

I think you're just white-knighting her.

P.EDIT: You do understand that by the balance of the game, a lot of town are going to die, correct? This wagon/elimination is meaningless in the grand scheme of DEFCON. The second nukes are free it's gonna get real messy real fast. Maybe that's why you're doing all this hemming and hawwing about this, because it's the last chance you'll have to exert any control over the gamestate or posture or something? It's just weird to me. It's a Day 1 elimination. Who cares if mastina flips town or scum, really? We're just trying to get to the nukes.

I don’t think that phrase means what you think it does Kupo.

And yes I understand by balance of the game once people are not pacifists anymore they will attempt to nuke each other. Nukes are a nature of the game.

I care if Mastina flips town or scum because if she’s scum that’s one step closer to winning and informs me to look for who bussed on and who stayed off or if she is town who wanted her gone and look at her reads list again super hard. I make no illusions of control Kupo. I am pacifist. I use my words alone.

[Mognet]

Anyone who has nukes should care as well. Your shot should be dependent upon content.

Before I posted people would have just nuked who they didn’t like as there was like nothing to go off of.

[Mognet]

In the other game I have stated this numerous times. She wanted Mastina’s reads list inverted.

This still isn't the same as seeking an elim. I can't tell if you have an agenda to discredit LLD here or just can't admit that your point sucks

It’s a bias is my point. I legit don’t get how you don’t see this.

If you think a player is bad you’re gonna see bad everywhere
If you think a player is good you’re gonna think their farts don’t stink.

You've repeatedly stated that LLD wants to eliminate mastina in every game. I don't think your argument supports this claim.

And I think it does. I think that if you think either A> A town’s list is so bad invert it always or B> They are scum, you cannot see the positive a player provides and therefore always want them yeeted. I think continuing this in circles is really antitown though.

[Mognet]

There is evidence beyond LLD says so. Mastina’s readslist was awfully early and largely unexplained. When asked to explain, she poofed. It reads faked. Many people raised concerns with why mastina had people where she did. I had these concerns too. That combined with LLD confidence is enough to eliminate. Rock solid no but this how we get content.

So? She poofed? Is she hyperactive town when pushed? Is she posting a lot? Is she VLA? Town and scum poof. It shouldn’t read anything when there’s no counter wagon or push or anything.

People raised concerns about her read list. Mastina did naked votes in the other town game she was given.

viewtopic.php?p=12559103#p12559103

She posts naked reads.

Combined with LLD’s confidence << again this is a no go for me.

So there’s like no case

[Mognet]

Why does someone flipping town make you want to look at their reads list, especially someone who is notoriously as foolhardy and wrong about their reads as mastina?

Like, I really hate that this somehow got misconstrued as yeeting mastina for playstyle and not because of her alignment... but let's even take a moment and engage as if it is 100% about her playstyle:

that is fine

. If Mastina is town, she will attempt to lead us all off the rails and into the chasm down below, all while refusing to engage with the game in a present manner. There are such things as "net negative" slots for town, or rather, there are mislims that actually benefit town.

However, I still think mastina is actually scum here.

The stuff she's throwing out as reasons for townreading people early on are completely forced. She tosses out a townread on LLD and Pooky for their pro-america shtick and all caps fanfare, knowing damn well that doesn't make someone more or less likely to be scum.

Read her posts. They are mostly engaging with conceptual ideas about mafia, or personal anecdotes... really, anything that isn't actually related to behavior in the current game at all? It's all meta and mafia theory, that's as close as she gets to engaging with the gamestate.

Otherwise it's just toss out an empty read based on nothing (or worse, based on appeals to meta authority), organize a readslist to look good, and create noise.

She's throwing out her own self-meta to defend herself as being town. (One, meta is trash so self-meta is even trashier trash; two, this self-meta isn't even accurate IMO. Two Team Mafias ago, when we caught scum mastina in the game, she was a fountain of bullshit content just being pumped out CONSTANTLY to clutter the game thread and appear helpful.)

I actually got tired of linking it. Just go read her iso. It's CONSTANT meta on others or self-meta, almost nothing about behavior IN THIS GAME anywhere. Because it allows mastina to pump out TONS of content that ultimately does nothing to help solve the gamestate but damn does it look like she's doing a lot right now.

p.edit: God Bless America.

Because scum like to keep around bad town.

If Mastina flips town that means she probably isn’t bad town due to no counter wagon.

Which means either lazy scum or Mastina is right

[Mognet]

i predict a scum flip

Cool I predict a town one.

If I am wrong then it’s almost certainly a planned scum bus

[Mognet]

Why thank you. Oh and Mastina is autistic so what?

That means she thinks a little differently than neurotypical people.

Why do you judge her like an NT? She’s going to be quirky and that’s okay

[Mognet]

She may need more words to explain her point or be weird.

She may struggle with judging people

But I find it wholly unfair how this wagon went and no one wondered why don’t scum give a fuck?

[Mognet]

Entity did the long form. You handwaiving the thread content, complaining about not being able to form reads, not using the meta provided but to argue LLD is biased screams you're playing social justice and not mafia.

Oh I am playing both darling Kupo.

And if Mastina flips town you better aim those nukes on fuckin wagon people

[Mognet]

Before I posted people would have just nuked who they didn’t like as there was like nothing to go off of.

We have had four DEFCON Mafia games, and there has never been an instance of people nuking without content. Appreciate the narrative that you saved the game, though.

There woulda been if I had just hammered Mastina.

All of that before was RVS bullshit

[Mognet]

I cannot speak for mastina or any other autistic people, but I feel like there's a line between advocacy and infantilization that you just crossed.

I really don’t think so.

I am a huge proponent for autistic people and you arguing because she had a personal anecdote that she is autistic is slimy and I called that out. And I call that out every time.

[Mognet]

But yes best step away before I get banned.

That was not meant as infantilizing my point is attack the play not the player.

The fact she told a personal anecdote should have had nothing to do with your read

[Mognet]

Man I wish I wasn’t a pacifist.

Let’s see the inevitable green Mastina flip then people go “OMG how”

And if she’s actually scum here I don’t see until tomorrow anyway probably.

She actually came back and scum told a lot in warehouse 13 eod1 why didn’t people want that here?

[Mognet]

we are in limbo until mastina flips, kupo

Ugh beer.

Does anyone have beer in a gif?

I need to chill out because people should have at minimum evaluated why no counter wagon.

[Mognet]

WAIT I JUST REALIZED THAT MIGHT BE READ AS SARCASTICALLY INSULTING YOU

I HAVE TONE PROBLEMS SOMETIMES

I APPRECIATE YOU AND DO NOT MEAN TO INSULT YOU AT ALL

I got you Bear Kupo.

You’re just frustrated with Mog Kupo.

[Mognet]

Does anyone have beer in a gif?

I need to chill out because people should have at minimum evaluated why no counter wagon.

no I do not because I am a real american who believes in restoring the 18th amendment

but also people were pretty much set on mastina before votes were a thing, I think mafia resigned themselves to that if mastina was mafia

I disagree with this entirely. If votes were set that early and scum were resigned to losing Mastina there woulda been people especially scum trying to push her for cred. The fact that everyone’s all “yeah sheep LLD” is the antithesis of that. If scum were resigned and no counter wagon implies inactives or bus.

[Mognet]

Does anyone have beer in a gif?

I need to chill out because people should have at minimum evaluated why no counter wagon.

no I do not because I am a real american who believes in restoring the 18th amendment

but also people were pretty much set on mastina before votes were a thing, I think mafia resigned themselves to that if mastina was mafia

idk i honestly thought et al was going to be a big wagon today and i'm surprised it didn't materialize

There we go.

And look who Mastina scumreads...

See! This is content!

And the Church of Skitter has been doing very little talking about Skitter

[Mognet]

@mognet

Why are you arguing about mastina minutiae unrelated to how you read them. You are very consumed with the why, but literally only the why part. Your arguments do not appear to be sorting anyone out... they are just arguments.

The why informs the arguments Target Kupo.

Until I know the why I don’t form a read.

Most of the reasoning if not all of it on Mastina seems bad. Not everyone on the Mastina wagon is scum. So if Mastina is town the people who had bad reasoning and why are more likely scum. If Mastina is scum then look at inactives and why they were off wagon or the why on wagon and was it defeatist or not.

The why forms arguments. Eg Joqiza being wishywashy doesn’t have a good why or prompt making him more likely scum. Titus seems to have a narrative and/or bias making her more likely scum

The why forms the puzzle pieces that form reads.

[Mognet]

you arguing because she had a personal anecdote that she is autistic is slimy and I called that out. And I call that out every time.

This literally never fucking happened except in your mind. At no point did I mention "mastina is autistic because she had a personal anecdote". I never even mentioned autism. You did.

That was not meant as infantilizing my point is attack the play not the player.

The fact she told a personal anecdote should have had nothing to do with your read

I called out the behavior as scummy. Contributing noise to the thread. Posting just to post and not having game-related content. That is scummy.

It is scummy behavior. Am I not supposed to call that out? The PLAY is scummy. Substituting actual content for personal anecdotes is scummy and it's something mastina has done time and time again. (If I gave a shit about meta, I'd point out how, the time I caught her and posted the infamous video about mastina's scumplay, it was because she was doing exactly this same shit. But I don't.)

You basically went "Well it's okay she's autistic" as a way to hand-wave the entire case I posted against her. As if because she's autistic we need to play with kid gloves on and not call out scummy play when we see it.

Peak virtue signaling

You linked her personal anecdote of her being autistic. You absolutely should call out scummy play when you see it. I just don’t see that here. Her entire point was my posts are long because I am autistic. That’s what she said. That’s not scummy. That’s addressing the concerns raised.

[Mognet]

oh so she did, and moglet is saying we shouldnt use mastina's long posts against her because she stated its because shes autistic, but on the other hand its mafia

This. Exactly.

That’s my point exactly.

[Mognet]

I'm going to need some hardcore convincing to not instantly turn Mognet into a radioactive crater at the earliest opportunity.

Then do it.

If I die for defending a good friend of mine so be it.

I would do it again and again and again.

This btw is defense Titus.

I feel it is defending Mastina’s character here.

[Mognet]

Like why would I even need to talk about skitter?
I already talked to her earlier. Does that not satisfy you?

Not really. Your handle is Church of skitter

So I figured you’d care a lot about Skitter

[Mognet]

in the "its mafia" defense, i have a memory disorder which makes mafia quite difficult for me. i try not to bring it up unless necessary and still expect people to hold me accountable regardless and if they think its scummy i dont remember my d1 reads or that i said X thing, go for it bc its mafia and like. scummy is scummy, regardless of reasons

apples and oranges though

I would naturally give you more leeway then and work with and accommodate that best I can. However if you’re outright contradictory that’s not memory that’s lying.

Sometimes mental health can make people look bad who aren’t. So people should be kind and not assume the worst.

[Mognet]

i dont think any of us are insulting mastina!!!! mastina i love you i dont even know you!!!!!!! its just mafia girlies

It really feels like that though.

No counter wagon or questioning it.

[Mognet]

i dont think any of us are insulting mastina!!!! mastina i love you i dont even know you!!!!!!! its just mafia girlies

It really feels like that though.

No counter wagon or questioning it.

its because we want blood, mastina isnt here, and people have meta that leans her most likely to be scum here. no counterwagon has reasons, this one at least has feeble ones. its just the first death of many, and no matter her alignment, we get a LOT of reads based on how people voted, when, and why

Yes the game wants blood. It feels like the game went for the easy Mastina versus scum. She could be scum she might not be but it doesn’t feel like anyone tried.

[Mognet]

I'm not acting any different than the last game we just played together as both town, and you hard town read me there.

Actually, you are, and it is specifically

because

of the differences I'm seeing between that game and this one that make me think you're scum here.

Can you explain these?

mastina, can you explain your Vax read? He looked reasonably towny to me.

Well basically. Vaxkiller is trying to be town without actually being town. Last game, Vaxkiller was town without trying to be town; he was town naturally from the onset. But here he's trying to force it. He's trying to make himself look town, in a way similar to last game, without actually radiating the town energy the way he did last game.

VOTE: Mastina

I don't buy this. I'm your BIGGEST scum read. and this is all you got? I'm not radiating town energy?

Also concerning your lock town read on pooky. He is just being pooky at this point.

You voted her because she failed to explain her scumread in you or the townread on her to your satisfaction. I do think you’re town but I also think that Mastina is correct here in that you do seem more forceful.

[Mognet]

If attacking someone over their behavior in a mafia game is damaging to someone's mental health might I suggest they not play mafia.

P.edit: I'll also point out -- yet again -- that I posted a very well-thought out and reasoned case including links to supporting posts by mastina to explain my actual scumread of her (while also arguing for why a mislim isn't always a bad thing). You, Mognet, decided to just hand-wave away the entirety of my post and instead make this all about defending mastina from people who would attack her for her autism, which is not even remotely what was happening.

From my POV, you're either being willfully obtuse to the point of being obstructionist, or you're too incensed at an attack that didn't happen to talk about the game itself right now. If it's the former, you might be scum. If it's the latter (which I actually suspect), might I recommend you take a breather?

I think that’s a great idea. Because I think either you’re justifying what is an accident or I am seeing malice that isn’t there.

Regardless I feel the game as a whole did not hardly evaluate anyone due to the sheer lack of wagons at all. This never bodes well.

[Mognet]

VOTE: Mastina

Note I disagree with this just this day needs to fucking end

[Mognet]

I am just making sure she is hammered

[Mognet]

I'm not acting any different than the last game we just played together as both town, and you hard town read me there.

Actually, you are, and it is specifically

because

of the differences I'm seeing between that game and this one that make me think you're scum here.

Can you explain these?

mastina, can you explain your Vax read? He looked reasonably towny to me.

Well basically. Vaxkiller is trying to be town without actually being town. Last game, Vaxkiller was town without trying to be town; he was town naturally from the onset. But here he's trying to force it. He's trying to make himself look town, in a way similar to last game, without actually radiating the town energy the way he did last game.

VOTE: Mastina

I don't buy this. I'm your BIGGEST scum read. and this is all you got? I'm not radiating town energy?

Also concerning your lock town read on pooky. He is just being pooky at this point.

You voted her because she failed to explain her scumread in you or the townread on her to your satisfaction. I do think you’re town but I also think that Mastina is correct here in that you do seem more forceful.

Townread on Pooky*

Ebwop

[Mognet]

Town points for Griffindor!


I mean pooky

Furthermore you saying Pooky town after is weird target Kupo.

What’s most likely is that Mastina caught Pooky town and was just in a way she couldn’t articulate well.

See? The why matters.

Because i could easily twist this into you being scum but the fact you’re asking me why makes you unlikely to be scum with Pooky or defending Pooky like that.

Instead this makes you more likely to be town and Pooky town and we’re all a town bloc

[Mognet]

What’s even more likely is that Skitter scum got away and she’s a very good scum and we should elim her or nuke her

Like Titus Church Joqiza Skitter is a pretty good shoot in pool if I wasn’t a pacifist but alas I am

[Mognet]

Mognets are Moogles thank you very much.

Btw prism submitted a list and got ninth priority and put silos last.

So there are actually very few nukes in the game.

Since I will be afk most of the weekend and likely will get exploded by angry Kupos wanted that out there.

[Mognet]

YOU MURDERER

I am a pacifist. I cannot murder Church Kupo.

[Mognet]

Mognets are Moogles thank you very much.

Btw prism submitted a list and got ninth priority and put silos last.

So there are actually very few nukes in the game.

Since I will be afk most of the weekend and likely will get exploded by angry Kupos wanted that out there.

please stop claiming for no reason

I did not claim smiley face Kupo.
I stated helpful things while saying I cannot kill as I am a pacifist.

No where did I claim Kupo.

[Mognet]

Why Marry Dolphin Kupo?

[Mognet]

VOTE: Marry

I could go for that Dolphin Kupo.

[Mognet]

VOTE: unvote

Now I am scared

[Mognet]

Scared of your naked vote actually anime Kupo.

People called you out as sus end of day.

My read on Mastina was wrong so I reevaluate.

[Mognet]

VOTE: unvote

Now I am scared

Because of Samantha in particular?

Correct.

My read on Sam Kupo is I don’t wanna be on a wagon near her while I sort her

[Mognet]

I think that was a joke target Kupo. I doubt people were talking about butts in PTs.

[Mognet]

Come to think of it, why would Marry Kupo if scum fake claim eavesdropper while scum buddy being wagoned?

Marry Kupo is likely an American.

[Mognet]

Mirror Kupo I think some missives should not be said.

What are some of your other reads?

[Mognet]

Let's just say I am the town mirror version of this kind of thinking.

i'm not sure what this statement means

Then don’t ask questions about it Dr Strange Kupo.
Just examine Cat Mirror Kupo and if they’re American let it be. Maybe give the cat scritches.

[Mognet]

I don’t get it Dr Strange Kupo and you don’t get it either. You missed something

In fact we aren’t going to talk about this anymore

What are some of your reads?

[Mognet]

contingent on town!Mognet, Save the Dragons and maybe Church were positioned where I'd expect scum to be positioned around a TvT but i hadn't really finished my reading yet

A TvT Kupo?

There was only one wagon?

I think Church is scum possibly but not as strong as yesterday.

[Mognet]

Come to think of it, why would Marry Kupo if scum fake claim eavesdropper while scum buddy being wagoned?

Marry Kupo is likely an American.

I thought marry did the eavesdropper thing early on but they did it at l-1

if I wanna be really paranoid I'd say that that argument is exactly why they'd do it

but you're probably right

Then you are voting them because why Kupo?

[Mognet]

i don't have a case prepared anything. these were just things i noticed that i wanted to explore.

the TvT between you and me, kupo.

my assumption is that scum were not focused on the wagons yesterday, but were instead planning forward.

If yesterday was a bus yes.
If Mastina was elimmed due to inactivity no.

I am not sure of reads right now and just trying to prevent silly missives

[Mognet]

eavesdropper here guys. mafia said they like big butts? not really sure what to make of this, would really appreciate some help. more at 11.

It did not seem just at l-1 Samantha Kupo.

Please explain yourself. Why are you not unvoting Marry?

Pedit:

Again I do not know. If I must hazard a hypothesis it would be you but I don’t have enough of an explanation to push you yet.

I do not think LLD is scum.

[Mognet]

jeez you really are hung up about votes that don't do anything aren't you UNVOTE:

Every missive and stamp tells a story.

You if town should want yours to be as accurate as possible.

Furthermore stamps leave an impression of a wagon/popular opinion.

Sometimes a stamp is investigative Kupo.

Like this one.

VOTE: Samantha97

[Mognet]

the post that pinged me from Save the Dragons on rr 1595. it feels like he is too aware of the fallacy of mognet's argument.

like i feel bad about this read in a sense cuz he was defending me there. but my intuition tells me that town reading my argument w/ mognet would be more likely to be unsure... or even just have their eyes glaze over.

i think mafia would deductively have the information to deduce it as a TvT quicker and so better understand... the intricacies of what was happening, if that makes sense?

i accept that the case i'm making here is largely circumstantial and it's not something i'm willing to commit to yet. it is also conditional on mognet actually being town. it's just where my mind is at rn.

Interesting idea.

I think I can be a hard read at times. What is prompting you to make arguments assuming I am town? Don’t get me wrong I am but I want to know where your head is Kupo.

[Mognet]

her main utility to scum was served by confirming to them that there was no town eavesdropper.

Let's just say I am the town mirror version of this kind of thinking.

you just claimed. great job.

No he didn’t smiley face Kupo (A)

You gained amnesia

Wanna share reads?

[Mognet]

99% chance mafia wanted to cut their losses and ram through doomed mastina, get some town points, and end the day fast

and who pushed it harder than lady lambdadelta

plus my tinfoil that entire time was that the reason ldd was being so harsh was because they already planned it with mastina beforehand

Why do I need another read? Mastina is scum, she'll flip, and then I'll have reads from that.

You said you would vote Mastina right? What's the holdup then?

being antsy about the day not being rushed was a red flag for me too

I do not wish to get into a fight about LLD.

I think she is town. Some things I said were independent of alignment.

Push her and I vote you.

LLD + Mastina was a paranoia theory I would only consider if you flip American.

[Mognet]

99% chance mafia wanted to cut their losses and ram through doomed mastina, get some town points, and end the day fast

and who pushed it harder than lady lambdadelta

plus my tinfoil that entire time was that the reason ldd was being so harsh was because they already planned it with mastina beforehand

Why do I need another read? Mastina is scum, she'll flip, and then I'll have reads from that.

You said you would vote Mastina right? What's the holdup then?

being antsy about the day not being rushed was a red flag for me too

I do not wish to get into a fight about LLD.

I think she is town. Some things I said were independent of alignment.

Push her and I vote you.

LLD + Mastina was a paranoia theory I would only consider if you flip American.

I push you Ebwop

Some missives have wrong words

[Mognet]

Fair. I like your posting a lot better than yesterday too.

Much more reassured and this is where I am.

Dr Strange can be American Kupo.

What do you make of Sam?

[Mognet]

talking about ldd being mafia is a lot more productive than trying to shut down wagons in their infancy while talking about not having any reads somehow, and not being sure if mastina was bussed

if you can't express yourself why someone is mafia then at least let things play out without putting your fingers in the pie

I have a read now.
You’re seriously scum.

LLD lead the wagon on Mastina.
It’s very rare for someone to control the game state and have no other competing wagons when attempting a bus.
Between your bad push and not dropping a vote on someone in your own words probably right,
Means you’re probably scum.

I’ll take a Sam wagon please.

Any takers?

[Mognet]

They just lost one of their own against a hyper player list assuming that a majority of the active players are American.

Scum would probably need to be aggressive Kupo.

[Mognet]

I cannot believe you really think mafia were trying to save mastina and failed to a strong list of town players lol

I did not say that.

I am saying if scum bussed there would still be town players on the wagon that were not interested in hunting elsewhere.

This lack of interest mean scum would have to come out swinging to regain the gamestate.

[Mognet]

So I have a little spiel: I went and looked at the previous DEFCON games, and in 3.0 and 4.0, the only ones to use this alignment distribution, there were actually very few group scum who tried to draft troops - in both games only 1 got a PR, and the rest were silos, although one in 4.0 tried to draft eavesdropper and missed out on it. The simple fact of the matter is that most of the PRs are simply not that useful to mafia compared to a silo. Take something like counterintelligence - while theoretically a framer/lawyer is beneficial to mafia, the likelihood of it ever coming into play is very very low - there's simply too many night action targets. A silo by comparison is much more practical. Especially given mastina's flip, I would bank on scum only having 1 more PR - the only ones with real appeal are espionage, battleship, and maybe fighter. Keep this in mind for when people start claiming.

I agree gorilla Kupo.

Hence my statement at the open.

[Mognet]

Reading page 75, I still think samantha is town. I don't think mafia raises the possibility of a bus after their teammate got hardshoved, far more likely to hang back and stay out of the way. No utility to asking that question as scum. (I think LLD will sort herself at this point, though)

Anyway, I think the mastina wagon is probably filthy with scum - she was getting hardpushed and her role had absolutely no value. I think examining the votes there is likely to prove fruitful.

PookyTheMagicalBear
gorilla
Prism
Cephrir (fastest backtrack in the west: I thought his opener was scum but his posts since then make me think town)
samantha97

If there's a single scum at the top of her list it's the Prism slot, otherwise I think this list is likely town as I suspect mastona's a player who tries to be honest as mafia and only townread town.

I also think mastina's vaxkiller scumread was mafia fosing a town, I don't think that was distancing.

Add Bell and joqiza as townreads and I think that's solid.

You realize gorilla Kupo that I received Prism’s missive right?

Therefore your argument does not make sense unless you are arguing I was bussing Mastina?

That does not follow.

[Mognet]

You realize gorilla Kupo that I received Prism’s missive right?

Therefore your argument does not make sense unless you are arguing I was bussing Mastina?

That does not follow.

I'm never going to townread someone who was making a defense of mafia on a day 1elim. It takes a gutsy sort of player to do that, but for all I know you could be some kind of don corleone playing on a secret alt.

But I'm not interested in voting you right now either. I just don't super townread you.

That’s fair. Not asking you to think I am an American.

Just if Gorilla Kupo thinks I am scum, then he needs a hypothesis to match the idea that I am scum.

[Mognet]

It is, in fact the rare scum that defends mafia day 1, as mafia themselves.
I thought they might have been scum arguing against a town miselimination. But that proved wrong. It is, at the very least, unique, though not unprecedented.

I'm just looking at Prism with the closest magnifying glass I have and waiting tbh (this is not a crumb).

Can people please stop saying they’re looking at Prism?

This Moogle is Prism.

Same slot.

[Mognet]

I JUST BOUGHT MY FIRST CAR also im american guys what are yall smoking...

Driving Chocobos can be fun.

What are your reads art Kupo?

[Mognet]

It is, in fact the rare scum that defends mafia day 1, as mafia themselves.
I thought they might have been scum arguing against a town miselimination. But that proved wrong. It is, at the very least, unique, though not unprecedented.

I'm just looking at Prism with the closest magnifying glass I have and waiting tbh (this is not a crumb).

Can people please stop saying they’re looking at Prism?

This Moogle is Prism.

Same slot.

I'm aware. I am looking directly at you and trying to figure out your alignment. You're a hydra now right? Or did you change speaking styles and approach mid-game?

I am one person Kupo.

Not sure what change you mean?

Approach I change a lot based on missives and reading and admitting errors.

[Mognet]

One moogle. Bah I almost did it. *

[Mognet]

You decided to create a new account midgame as a sort of metaphorical metamorphosis?

I am not Prism.
I replaced into the Prism slot.
I am one moogle.

All this I have said before several times.

[Mognet]

Can you talk about your Samantha read gorilla Kupo? I do not understand how you have her very likely town.

I find Church and Nexus and Titus the most likely bussers but VFP gives me pause.

I agree with most reads though. Can you elaborate please?

[Mognet]

Mognet is prism????????

*sigh*

I am literally the Prism slot.
I am not the human Prism.

I am one moogle behind this alternate form.

Was trying to join the fun jokiness that is DEFCON.

[Mognet]

Well, I can't say it's not thematically appropriate, you've always given off that sort of impression.
As for speaking style, I just sort of assumed that you wouldn't mid game start arguing about autism when you're usually pretty laser focused on shit post creativity and finding the scums. I'm still discovering the layers of you, I guess.

As scum do you think you would have been more effectual in stopping Mastina's wagon?


Pedit: wait what.
So did Prism just replace out and you're a new guy that's insisting you're Prism because you replaced into his slot and therefore his slot is your slot and his intentions are your intentions or what?

The human Prism is no longer playing this game.

I replaced into this slot.

I am saying I am Prism so people realize it’s the same slot.

Our alignment is the same because we have the same role PM, which is American.

I cannot speak to Prism’s intentions as I cannot read minds Kupo.