CONTROL - GAME OVER!

[Greeting]

Greetings!

VOTE: tictac

[Greeting]

Well! That was quicker than expected. One read so far.

That read being?

[Greeting]

Mush feels town to me tbh.

Why?

[Greeting]

Mush feels town to me tbh.

Why?

I don't explain town reads. Provides scum with insight into my blindspots and makes my reads worse.

Here is a counter point. You ask this question without providing your own feelings. What is your read on Mush?

I'd like for them to respond to 176 first before answering.

[Greeting]

Mush feels town to me tbh.

Why?

I don't explain town reads. Provides scum with insight into my blindspots and makes my reads worse.

Here is a counter point. You ask this question without providing your own feelings. What is your read on Mush?

I'd like for them to respond to 176 first before answering.

Hi hello welcome have you tried literally reading ahead like 5 posts from the post you're asking about I literally GIVE THE ANSWER what is the point of asking this again LOL

As a matter of fact, I have, including a second check after reading this response and neither the 5 posts preceding nor 5 posts following yours gave me an answer. Would you be kind enough to point me?

[Greeting]

VOTE: Ircher

Reason? Not asking what it is, just if you have one.

why did you ask about my vote and not anyone else's vote

I said I have one read

*narrator voice* Greeting had not in fact read.

I didn't ask "how many reads you had?" but "what is your read"? Is it a townread or a scumread? Whom are you townreading or scumreading? And why?

[Greeting]

Greeting, buddy, I think you are the only one other than Ircher who doesn't get the first two parts by now, its not like I've been hiding shit this game, I gave up that conniving scheming playstyle after the fiasco of Mtn Dew Mafia. I am an open book come and read me

As for why, I'm gonna save it till you decide to accept what the entire rest of the player list has, purely because it amuses me to watch you get held up on this small simple thing

Okay, well, if you want to be read by whatever you post solely then I won't be questioning you. It's not like I can force you to respond either.

I'll leave judging what's a small simple thing to myself, and it would be a small simple thing if it wasn't part of a chain of small simple things that form a pattern.

What is your read on Mush?

While catching up with the thread their behavior struck me quite strongly with the amount of fluff they're posting. They seem to be masking it with an aggressive and trollish posting style. None of their votes seem serious, none of the things they post seem serious.

They latch to random players for what seems to me no valid reason. And yet that doesn't stop them from latching on to

Cephrir

for doing the same thing (80).

They refuse to answer to questions themselves. And yet that doesn't stop them from questioning

Dwlee99

(67).

They're deliberately making unclear statements for reasons unknown, and I don't see how any of them aid the town cause (54 among most of their posts actually).

I think that creating unnecessary confusion is a scum tell to be fair.

VOTE: MUSHSHAGANA

[Greeting]

It’s rvs. Anything you latch onto is gunna be pretty made up.

I think that RVS ended quite quickly in this game, in my opinion as soon as 49.

[Greeting]

Greeting, can you link some past games for me?

Mine? You can find them on my wiki page.

[Greeting]

Greeting’s perspective bothers me. It seems black and white.

Elaborate?

[Greeting]

Greeting are you an alt? You actually don’t feel like one, which is new for me.

Anyway, what I mean by RVS is that we pretty much only have subjective data to work with, with no flips or anything else. People immediately started dropping opinions and the pace is good IMO, but it’s still subjective stuff.

Eh, I don’t wanna relate to you too early game mush since it can be faked by the incredulousness of your response is towninteresting.

No, I'm not an alt.

[Greeting]

Greeting’s perspective bothers me. It seems black and white.

Elaborate?

@

Bell

?

[Greeting]

Greeting’s perspective bothers me. It seems black and white.

Elaborate?

@

Bell

?

You're new, which may or may not explain your total focus on one person. Anyway, you have scum tells. You apply scum tells to Mush's posts. ????
profit.
Is how it feels to me.

I picked

MUSHSHAGANA

as their posts stood out for me as something I consider to come from a scum point of view. What's so towny about them that I have overlooked?

[Greeting]

The fact that i've been somewhat active but nobody has reads on me is weird.

I find all of your posts so far NAI.

[Greeting]

This is extra funny because both my parents were high level private sector and government defense lawyers.

And one of their preferred abuse methods with me was to sit me down and cross examine me before deciding I was lying and well... You get the idea with the word abuse.

So it is possible that is part of what made me good at mafia. Hah.

Sounds like you were destined for this game!

Jokes aside, I'm very sorry, that sounds really abusive.

[Greeting]

Cephrir

To my surprise, I'd say that this deserves more attention than it got.

What drew

MUSHSHAGANA

's (60) and

Lady Lambdadelta

's (58) attention to them seems to be this post:

Day 2

Dear D.I.A.R.Y.,

So far the mission is going according to plan. No one has figured out that I'm an alien. The earthlings are... "friendly," as they say. I have much to learn about this culture. As of yet, I have not identified any Bad Earthlings. I hope the others can assist me, as the combination of my superior deductive capabilities and Earthling knowledge of their own traditions should surely be formidable.

Yours,
Ce'phyy

P.S. I don't know what Control is actually about.

I... honestly don't see what's so scummy about this. It's just a joke?

MUSHSHAGANA

did provide some insight in here:

The content of your post reads EXACTLY in theme with a specific part of Control, but its a part that wouldn't be very likely to come up in a green role PM. If you hadn't fluffposted without thinking through the consequences of your actions you might have been fine, but instead you fluffposted in a way that gave the game away, precisely because you didn't know what you were talking about. Sorry bud

I don't know the theme of Control, honestly there wasn't much of an explanation of the setup in the Queue thread. What I saw was a large theme game and I just went /in.

The game revolves around the Federal Bureau of Control (FBC), a secret U.S. government agency tasked with containing and studying phenomena that violate the laws of reality. As Jesse Faden (Courtney Hope), the Bureau's new Director, the player explores the Oldest House – the FBC's paranormal headquarters – and utilizes powerful abilities in order to defeat a deadly enemy known as the Hiss, which has invaded and corrupted reality.

Does that mean that the Hiss are... aliens? I probably sound like a Baby Boomer now.

[Greeting]

Ircher

In post 96 he seems to share my confusion with regard to

Cephrir

.

I dislike posts like 125. If you want someone to move on or return to voting another, what I'd expect is at least an explanation. Otherwise it's just lazy at best and scummy at worst.

He has also, notably, not really explained his suspicions of

MUSHSHAGANA

. His push seems random, such as in posts 189.

What

fallacious reasoning? I have expressed suspicion of

MUSHSHAGANA

, but not specifically because I thought their reasoning was fallacious.

How about your fallacious reasoning this game?

Can you provide proof of fallacious reasoning? NOTE: it is not enough to call my reasoning fallacious for this, you must actually show the fallacy

Also scum is as scum does and you are scum so get thee hence

I will perhaps this evening; not right now. Your assumptions though for your initial reads are off the charts.

Sorry,

Ircher

, that's not satisfactory.

[Greeting]

Ircher

's posts also lead me to this, regarding

Cephrir

:

Yes. You should. That is exactly why I am killing you.

For actively seeking fun. It reads to me like you drew scum, hated it, and are now looking for ways to make your own fun.

That is honestly too far-fetched in my opinion. I would expect something that would explain why, having posted 57,

Cephrir

revealed insider information (although that was

MUSHSHAGANA

's argument).

[Greeting]

EBWOP: first sentence of 278 - I meant

MUSHSHAGANA

and not

Cephrir

, as in - the confusion regarding

MUSHSHAGANA

's posts.

It... What? Quoi?

Are you sure you understood the argument?

Was there something I misunderstood?

[Greeting]

UNVOTE: MUSHSHAGANA

I want to vote

Ircher

, but I'd like a vote count first.

[Greeting]

EBWOP: first sentence of 278 - I meant

MUSHSHAGANA

and not

Cephrir

, as in - the confusion regarding

MUSHSHAGANA

's posts.

It... What? Quoi?

Are you sure you understood the argument?

Was there something I misunderstood?

The argument is that Cephrir actively has no fun as scum and has done and said many things that I can't really pull as evidence to essentially show this to be true.

And so attempting to create their own fun is what I would expect scum ceph to try and do to make things bearable

Oh, so that's a meta argument. Gosh, meta seems to be dictating everything players rely on this game. I care less about meta than about actual content.

[Greeting]

I don't really work on Meta, this is a behavioural read based on past experience. This is not "When Ceph does this, he's scum!" it's "based on my experiences with Ceph, this behaviour leans this way"

Isn't that what meta is, though? Judgement of someone's play by how they played in other games, regardless of whether you've been in that game or not?

Oh, and also also, nothing of your posts has really kind of said anything which is the irony part. You're saying a lot of words and accomplishing... not much. I'd probably swallow the ego a little and dig in a little more.

I quite disagree and my ego has very little to do with anything I do in mafia games.

[Greeting]

Not really? like Meta is literally taking tendancies from one game and kind of trust telling them into another. See: Mastina always claims Mason as a meme

That's meta.

As for your posts... like there's a lot of words and not a lot said. Like you wrote a lot about Ceph but missed Mush's point and completely misunderstood mine.

The Ego part of this is that you could have dug into either of our arguments with lines of questioning that might have informed you about our alignments but you thought you understood our arguments and now I'm here telling you that you've gone 0/2 on that regard.

Hence... Ego.

Hmm, maybe "overconfidence" is the word to use. Overconfidence in ones interpretations.

Huh?

Meta, short for metagame, is a term for the knowledge of how a player or moderator will act based on previous experience.

And not just here.

Meta, in a game of Epic Mafia, refers to using information, about the current players, from outside the specific game to come to a decision/conclusion.

I hope the irony of you calling me overconfident is not lost on you.

Misunderstandings can and do happen everywhere, not just mafia games. And normally people will just sit down and have a discussion to clarify them. So if I misunderstood someone, I'd expect the relevant player to come around and correct it. Unfortunately, this expectation seems to be too high in some cases.

Perhaps it isn't me who has an ego problem.

[Greeting]

EBWOP: Here is the Epic Mafia Wiki article.

[Greeting]

[Greeting]

I was having a conversation here.

[Greeting]

[Greeting]

Lady Lambdadelta

used this to get out of a lost argument and I'm not even mad.

[Greeting]

Yeah I've played with everyone here except roden and Elodie. Unless they're alts too.

In which game have we played together?

[Greeting]

Yeah I've played with everyone here except roden and Elodie. Unless they're alts too.

In which game have we played together?

A newbie game.

Oh, so you're an alt. Or some other player is your alt.

[Greeting]

how does anyone still fall for fake dayvigs, it's so old hat.

How does anyone

not

fall for something that elicited a reaction from the game host?

[Greeting]

Some of my deepest reads are usually hard to convey because they rely so heavily on Norwee logic that just doesn’t translate well when i try to type it out as a post in an mafia game.

Google Translate works pretty good.

Au contraire. One of my favourite things to do when I'm bored is to go on Google Maps, find random places like shops or restaurants in Japan or China and read the reviews translated from East Asian languages into English. It's free entertainment.

Then again, both Norwegian and English are Germanic languages so that might work better.

[Greeting]

Roden, why do you think Greeting is the best vote for today?

I hate the RVS analysis posts. They made my eyes glaze over and it just read as information-over-analysis to me. It's typically a town tell to me, but there's a thin line between actually town telling and just LAMIST serious analysis posts.

Additionally, I don't think Greeting and LLD are aligned, and since I town read LLD I have to give Greeting the boot.

So, I took the time to analyse two players who were under suspicion at the moment and tried to understand the arguments against them and that's bad?

Half of the votes this game have either been not explained at all, or were given three lines of text at most. At least that's my impression. Sorry for wanting to make a more informed choice as to whom I'm voting out.

I also think that

Lady Lambdadelta

is town but I don't see a shred of an explanation why her being town makes me scum.

[Greeting]

As promised, here are some examples of MUSH's fallacious logic.

The content of your post reads EXACTLY in theme with a specific part of Control, but its a part that wouldn't be very likely to come up in a green role PM. If you hadn't fluffposted without thinking through the consequences of your actions you might have been fine, but instead you fluffposted in a way that gave the game away, precisely because you didn't know what you were talking about. Sorry bud

According to MUSH, Cephrir is scum for 57 because it isn't likely to have come from a town role pm. Let me point out some of the various ways this argument is fallacious:

1: It presupposes that Cephrir is familiar with the source material. This is evidently false because in 57, Cephrir explicitly states he is not familiar with the source material. You may argue that it's scum indicative regardless, but there's nothing preventing someone with a town alignment who is unfamiliar with the source material from making the exact same post. While it may be true perhaps that a scum role pm may make such a post more likely (I wouldn't know as I don't know the source material), it is at best a marginal difference.

2: It also presupposes that Cephrir's role is directly related to the post at hand and that Cephrir pulled material from his role pm to make that post. There is no evidence in favor of this assumption; in fact, later posts highly suggest this is not the case as Cephrir denied MUSH's guess in 123.

The following two go together.

Ircher why do you think I'm making any claims about Cephrir specifically and not a general statement about anyone in the circumstances Cephrir finds himself in

Ceph and I have never played together, there is no meta being used here

I guess you're still scum. Great job bolstering my early hypothesis

MUSH's argument here is that I am scum at least in part because I misinterpreted one of MUSH's earlier posts as being a specific observation about Cephrir rather than a general observation. For reference, the post I misinterpreted was 63:

Look if you didn't want to get burned down early then you should've used your noggin before you fluffposted, now its too late and that's your problem not mine

I would like to point out that if you are reading chronologically (and thus haven't seen the elaboration in 80, then it is very easy to interpret this post as MUSH scum reading fluffposting in general. My assumption was since that in the general case, that does not equate scum, there must have been something specific between MUSH and Cephrir that led to Cephrir's post being scummy in MUSH's eyes. 70 does not contradict my initial assumption; in fact, it reinforced it. Finally, there was also Lady Lambdadelta's take in 71, and her take is in fact a meta read. These factors combined, my original assumption, while incorrect, was reasonable. The issue here is that MUSH is trying to twist this around and paint it as scum!me protecting scum!Cephrir. MUSH is completely ignoring the "how would town come to this assumption" and instead jumps straight to the conclusion that reinforces MUSH's own preexisting bias. The argument that I am scum for making an incorrect assumption is fallacious because it completely ignores all the other equally plausible scenario and instead picks the one that fits in the most with MUSH's narrative.

Thanks for responding.

I've also read into the whole

Cephrir

thing and I think it's missing the information on what kind of insider information did they reveal. So maybe it's not fallacious reasoning

per se

, but definitely lacking some explanation that should have been there.

And also, there is the issue of how that wagon was suddenly dropped in favour of voting out you.

I agree with what has been said in the second part of your post and that's also part of my objection with regard to

MUSHSHAGANA

's slot too. Thing is, there's a lot of strong voices in defense of this slot which involves that player's meta and it's made me more hesitant to go with that too. Which is why I dropped it.

I think this post is good enough for me to not want to vote out

Ircher

yet

after all.

[Greeting]

Lady Lambdadelta
The Three Bears (Titus, Flea the Magician, Noraa)
Bell
Save The Dragons
NorwegianboyEE
Tet
Roden
tictac
Malakittens

Dwlee99
Princess Elodie
Greeting

MUSHSHAGANA

T3
Toogeloo

Galron
MegAzumarill
Arcade Pals (Dunnstral, MariaR)

Ircher
Cephrir

Kinda surprised that I genuinely have a good readslist from literally just two pages but this is genuinely seriously actually a good readslist imo.

Pagetopping this with the minor switch of T3/Mush (Mush trusting LLD, T3's entrance not being as town as I was hoping.)

So much confidence and putting up a whole readslist after so much meme-ing and fluff that was in this game?

[Greeting]

greeting just seems so townie it looks like you're scum who can't see that and are doubling down on a bad read

disagree about greeting
VOTE: greeting
in fact

theres a kind of annoyance at the resistance to mush push that feels scum-indic and the curiosity that accompinies is kinda performative and weird-agressive.
258 prolly the best example of this.

Yeah, sure, I was annoyed that I'm not getting 9 players to follow my lead immediately into

MUSHSHAGANA

, that's totally what was happening. I expect everyone to follow my orders immediately, did you hear that, y'all?

Yeah I know my reads list sucks, once we cut the player list in half and we're more than 48 hours into the game it'll probably look better.

"Contains a few scum" isn't a fake statement. My reads aren't strong but I feel like my read rate early in the game is usually 50/50, so I feel that some of my scum reads are probably correct.

STD what kind of low level scum do you think I am that I would telegraph an Ircher miselim like that? If I was scum and he was town I'd just vote him, it really wouldn't be hard to blend in with a wagon that would have twelve people on it.

Idk why you think my explanation of the Greeting vote is fake. I think your reaction is fake if anything lol.

I don't think LLD and Greeting are aligned because I town read one and scum read the other.

You haven't really given much reasoning for all the rest of your reads other than myself at that point, so don't be surprised if others take it just as a post and not an actual readslist, and by doing that, judge the fact that you have posted it on its own.

I disagree with the notion that it's 100% rational for scum to just jump on

Ircher

's wagon if he's town. If he's eliminated and he's town, that would be a miselim and if I were scum, I'd expect that town would try to analyse anyone who played part in that miselim. And in the case of town

Ircher

being voted out, I will definitely be looking more closely at people who voted for them. Even if something happens later in the game that convinces me to jump on that wagon myself after all.

And I would like to provide mrs. logic with some emotional support with regard to your reasoning of me being unaligned with

Lady Lambdadelta

because she has been utterly violated. You have provided a thesis that both of us are unaligned and now you're backtracking from it and claiming that it's not what you meant. That's.. bad, but I'm not yet sure if it's scum indicative.

greeting just seems so townie it looks like you're scum who can't see that and are doubling down on a bad read

If I'm scum the read wouldn't be bad lol, it would just be wrong. Weird that you'd apply town logic to me if you're scum reading me.

I don't think you're understanding what

Save The Dragons

meant, although I've had trouble understanding what they meant as well. What I think he meant was: "you're looking from a scum perspective, therefore you're not seeing how towny

Greeting

is being". Since the sentiment is regarding me, I won't be analysing whether it is true or not because there's no point in me doing this from my perspective.

ehhh I can see someone saying "bad play=antitown=scum" in their head tbh, and Roden joindate makes that feel more likely even???????

The anti-alignment of LLD and Greeting is fully fabricated tho LOL and REGARDLESS of alignment bro needs to walk that shit back big time like why you gotta make shit up, just say you had a gut read LOL

I feel like it's pretty clear that it has to be partially based on a gut read.

You haven't made that clear at all.

[Greeting]

IF X, THEN Y vs JUST X AND Y

one of lld/greeting is scum is not the same as I townread lld and scumread greeting.

Say it even louder for the people in the back!

Thing is, and I am WIFOM-ing now, I'm not sure if scum

Roden

really wouldn't have anticipated this blatant logical mistake being called out.

[Greeting]

I always find it funny when previous scum buddies see my playstyle and thought process in detail, then see me act the complete opposite in another game and accuse me of being scum lol.

By funny I mean tiring.

I have a suggestion. If you're town then please stop this siege mentality thing and listen to what is being said about your point.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Galron

I didn't post between 559 and this. What's changed so you're no longer voting me?

[Greeting]

For the record, this is bad modding as it has a direct influence on the game, namely?

I'm conftowning both LLD and Three Bears from it.

I'm leaning (but not conftowning) town on both of them because of this too actually. Mod's actions in regard to

Lady Lambdadelta

have benefitted town if

Lady Lambdadelta

is town clearly, because they elicited a reaction from one head of the three-headed hydra, and I am judging the reaction was rather towny.

So much confidence and putting up a whole readslist after so much meme-ing and fluff that was in this game?

This is unfortunately what mastina does at the beginning of the game. I wouldn't put much stock into its accuracy, but it's not alignment indicative for mastina.

Yeah, I'm considering this, but I'm not sure if that's everyone's understanding though - there are, after all, players scumreading her for it.

If it is though

, that would those players in a bad light as trying to take advantage of her gameplay.

[Greeting]

So much confidence and putting up a whole readslist after so much meme-ing and fluff that was in this game?

Honestly I don't blame you for saying that as you're fairly new but if any experienced player can't get reads on the majority of the playerlist from those first two pages they're frankly incompetent, those are the two most alignment-telling pages I've ever seen ever.

...just no.

I genuinely think it's honestly the best readslist I've made so no, not questionable; I stand by all those reads as being INCREDIBLY likely to be accurate.

These?

Spoiler:

VOTE: Greeting

Fourth

Ah shit, here we go again.

Going to be VLA for a couple days. My mom is Covid positive and I’m either Covid positive or I got the flu, but waiting on results. I just can’t stay awake for more than a couple minutes right now :/

Town.

VOTE: Roden

Town?

Second
VOTE: MUSH
For tunneling me last game

Scum?

First
VOTE: MUSH

Good evening
VOTE: Bell

Scum.

I laughed out too hard, my neighbors now probably think I'm mad.

[Greeting]

Greeting what changed your read on Mush?

I agree with what has been said in the second part of your post and that's also part of my objection with regard to

MUSHSHAGANA

's slot too. Thing is, there's a lot of strong voices in defense of this slot which involves that player's meta and it's made me more hesitant to go with that too. Which is why I dropped it.

Sure, I prefer reads over meta, but if others claim that's what's going on here then I also start hesitating more.

But that doesn't mean it's a townread, I just decided to withdraw for the time being.

[Greeting]

i think i'm going to completely ignore mush for now because they sound drunk every time they post tbh

I hate this lazy take, ugh. Even though that was one of my first thoughts about them. There

is

content in there and it's significantly more than from many other players who make posts that are more "normal", you just need to read in more deeply.

[Greeting]

I was starting to think that

NorwegianboyEE

is making NAI posts throughout this whole game to avoid being scumread, but he stepped up with his more recent contributions and so, for now, he gets a soft townread in my mind.

[Greeting]

I'm out today. Noraa can pass me messages. I may have left Noraa instructions for things. I may not have. Noraa can use my name for any reaction test she wishes and I'll correct later if needed. I'd like to see how you treat me when you're not sure if it's me or Noraa. I think Noraa would like that too.

~Mama

Okay and this experiment will give us what exactly? There's already enough fluff and unnecessary confusion in this game.

[Greeting]

Greeting, do you have any scum games you're especially proud of? Have you won as scum before?

I do, actually! Unfortunately the site where I played about 85% of my games

and

hosted four no longer exists. I have a very good winning record as scum, I rolled scum four times in my overall history of playing this game anywhere on the Internet and won three games out of these four.

On the other hand, my record of winning games as town is about 50/50 and that's also how it is for me on this site so far. I've actually been thinking about my past games on MafiaScum today and I'm quite bitter about the conclusions, because I feel like I was part of the reason my team lost both Newbie 2078 and Newbie 2084 (especially the latter), while I wasn't instrumental in my team's win in Newbie 2082. I did hammer scum in Newbie 2081, however, but I honestly feel like it was just luck and not my abilities.

But I have strong preference for being town, simply because I hate lying - to me it's more stressful than exciting. When you're town, the game is just one big puzzle and I'd say it's pretty fun to try to find out who's lying, who's protecting whom, who's bussing whom etc.

[Greeting]

ceprhir

for those who don't know, cephrir is my fiance

We love LGBTQ+ representation on MafiaScum!

[Greeting]

T3

Admittedly, 672 was something that definitely stood out for me from this slot. This is just so lazy... like, a 0 for effort.

I have a problem with

mastina

's slot, but an even bigger problem with players who brush someone whose behavior is questionable, but, in my opinion, consistent. It is my understanding that

mastina

does her thing more often than not.

mastina does a lot of hocus pocus to get her reads and trying to read her off of her reads is just bad

Plus, none of these reads have

ever

been elaborated on:

not in the mood for analysis. long day.
mush is scum, ceph, bell, and std are town

lld is lean town
norwee, ircher are lean scum

One post which indicates actual game-reading reasoning I found is here:

i don't care that much about the backtracking. i don't think town norwee would be this aggressive towards those who are scumreading him.
in mbos 13 (towngame) norwee actually engaged with the players who were tunneling him and resolved it, meanwhile inopen draft mafia (scumgame) norwee just completely shut down after mastina started tunneling him.

But actually I'd say the fact that someone gets easily agitated is a townread not a scumread?

I think this has a better shot at being scum than

Ircher

or

mastina

. I'm more hesitant on

Roden

and

The Three Bears

are such a clusterfuck I honestly don't know what to think of them.

VOTE: T3

[Greeting]

@EBWOP - none except

NorwegianboyEE

of course, if 770 can count as such.

[Greeting]

I have meetings every day from tomorrow until Wednesday, when I have a date. As such, starting today, my style will be a bit more "classic MUSHSHAGANA" until Thursday, when it will return to fulltime Shrikeposting.

Shrike will return intermittently, and we'll be blendy in the evenings.

As of this morning, we reached consensus on the gamestate:
Bell/Norw/STD/LLD are never scum here.
Cephrir can coast for a dayphase.
mastina/Galron are playing a town game.
Greeting is more town than not, but it wouldn't be too surprising to see this go red.
We don't like Tet's play but have no specific reason to NOT townread it, and we feel a lot of it has to be AI play, so it's defaulting to nulltown for now. Shrike is a bit more town-ish here than I am.
Everyone not specifically named needs more data.

T3/Roden/Ircher bleed red.

So you

can

sound normal and not like you’re rambling every single time you post.

I think I agree on top four.

Cephrir

and also

Ircher

get a pass from me for the time being.

Tet

is null for me.

I’ve spoken of

Roden

before.

I don’t see what’s so towny about

Galron

though.

[Greeting]

debate is debate. annoyance is an emotion.
the read hasn't changed, but kinda agree abot t3 being scummy
@ the person who asked

So you think I’m bussing

T3

?

[Greeting]

i know that's the standard response, but it's also so inane.
no

I quite agree that it’s insane and that’s why I’m asking you to elaborate. If I’m scum but also

T3

is scum then what is the purpose of me suspecting them?

[Greeting]

So you can sound normal and not like you’re rambling every single time you post.

Have you just not paid any attention to Shrike mentioning over and over that we're plural and I, the one usually in charge for Mafia games, am taking an extended break? There was a whole back-and-forth with several people making bad meta-calls because they weren't entirely aware of that.

Because if you didn't pay any attention to that, then I can understand why you would /think/ this but not why you would /post/ it, considering I outlined exactly why I'm posting like "myself" again in the very post you're replying to. And if you did pay attention, then neither half of the think-post equation makes sense.

So. What is the point you think that you're making with this sentence, exactly?

I was just being snarky because of your earlier passive aggressive responses and refusal to respond when questioned.

[Greeting]

@

MUSHSHAGANA

It’s hilarious that you’re throwing shit 360 around you at all times and when someone snaps back you act like a little b.

[Greeting]

PEDIT: Greeting, I'm not as convinced as Shrike is of your towniness, and I do my best work by crushing what I don't understand until it flails or it fails, as appropriate. As it turns out, I win either way. I can make you our new hobby if you want. But why make life hard on yourself when you can just take the townread?

Well, no accounting for taste.

I'm not here to get townread, but to solve the game. And from my perspective, if you're town, you're making life harder for me by basically telling me "eh read up for yourself, I'm done with this questioning thing".

And I'm not sorry if I hurt your feelings by finding your earlier posting style unhelpful.

[Greeting]

*shrugs*

I’m very friendly but if someone snaps at me I snap back.

[Greeting]

i know that's the standard response, but it's also so inane.
no

I quite agree that it’s insane and that’s why I’m asking you to elaborate. If I’m scum but also

T3

is scum then what is the purpose of me suspecting them?

lemme refrase.
u don't get townpoints from a preflip assosiat to someone who is kinda sketchy.
cuz duh.

that aswer yer q?

Thank you for your answer, even with this, you've still done more than

some

players.

It doesn't really answer my question, though, it's more of a cut-it-short thing.

I think refusal to consider this perspective at all is lazy at best, scummy and in bad faith at worst. Probably the latter, since I clearly tried to push you to elaborate on that and you clearly refused to go in further. Is it maybe because the conclusions aren't in line with your push on me?

[Greeting]

greet: i did consider that perspective, and i judged it to be dumb.
conclusions drawn from a faulty perspective are gonna be faulty also.
yes: from your proposed pow my stances are clearly contradictory, and i should not be having these opinions. that says more about the quality of the pow than my opinions, which is why i adressed the root of the disconnect instead of the question you asked.

Why would my perspective be faulty? It is based on the simple, and I would say pretty rational, assumption that scum act towards advancing their team's goal, so every post they make is meant to advance their goal.

[Greeting]

i know that's the standard response, but it's also so inane.
no

I quite agree that it’s insane and that’s why I’m asking you to elaborate. If I’m scum but also

T3

is scum then what is the purpose of me suspecting them?

lemme refrase.
u don't get townpoints from a preflip assosiat to someone who is kinda sketchy.
cuz duh.

that aswer yer q?

greet: ur pow says i should do this, hence dumb.

This reasoning is so utterly stupid that I'm out of words. You're just screwing with me, that's all.

[Greeting]

Unfortunately, I'm not sure if that is alignment indicative though. Noraa-head of

The Three Bears

, what's up with the rabbit?

[Greeting]

I don't mind voting

MegAzumarill

at all, and it seems like a popular thing to say nowadays. Which is interesting, given the fact that either actual reads or meta of this slot are really poor.

But I still think that I hit scum with rather high certainty by voting

T3

.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Galron

I didn't post between 559 and this. What's changed so you're no longer voting me?

@

Roden

[Greeting]

T3 has requested replacement.

This is so annoying when players under pressure (albeit rather little in this case) do this.

[Greeting]

Role got! Evening everybody. Ill try to get fully caught up tonight, if not ill finish up tomorrow.

Looking at the roster I recognize several names but the only ones I've completed games with are 2/3ds of the hydra (Titus and flea). I think i played galreon once a year or two ago, and Icher I played a game with a LONG time ago. Also recall MariaR too i believe. If I'm missing anybody feel free to jog my memory.

Never played Mastina, or Lady Lambdadelta, but their names precede them for sure. Curious to see if they live up to the hype!

To the total strangers... hi! Im Grendel, and its nice to meet you.

-/-/-/-/-

UNVOTE:

Welcome,

Grendel

- I don't think we've played together before.

[Greeting]

Oh, and hello

Val89

, we've

definitely

played before.

[Greeting]

i'm a little weirded out all i got was a "I don't fucking know," same with cephrir but maybe i can see that but i'm not sure how i'm floating in anyone's null space atm i can barely keep my damn mouth shut

i think my ultimate bears opinion is they could be scum but maybe not who i want to go after d1. noraa's list is a little problematic for me if fae's had no controversial takes maybe noraa's has too many i guess? maybe? i dunno somehow there's like 7 scum and they turn it into 3 and that's impressive

They don't look very coordinated as a hydra. I think if

The Three Bears

were scum, their behaviour would be much closer to one another than it is.

[Greeting]

*@Greeting*

UNVOTE: MUSHSHAGANA

I want to vote

Ircher

, but I'd like a vote count first.

where exactly is your Mush read when you pivoted onto Icher?

In 548.

Mush stream of thought posts fell genuine enough that I don't really feel him being scum atp. Hope gut doesn't bite my ass on that one lol.

I still feel vuagely scummy vibes in Norwee's general direction.

Greeting feels most scumy to me rn.

Why?

Roden, why do you think Greeting is the best vote for today?

I hate the RVS analysis posts. They made my eyes glaze over and it just read as information-over-analysis to me. It's typically a town tell to me, but there's a thin line between actually town telling and just LAMIST serious analysis posts.

Additionally, I don't think Greeting and LLD are aligned, and since I town read LLD I have to give Greeting the boot.

So, I took the time to analyse two players who were under suspicion at the moment and tried to understand the arguments against them and that's bad?

Half of the votes this game have either been not explained at all, or were given three lines of text at most. At least that's my impression. Sorry for wanting to make a more informed choice as to whom I'm voting out.

I also think that

Lady Lambdadelta

is town but I don't see a shred of an explanation why her being town makes me scum.

Hmmm, do you come from a site meta where wall posts are the common practice?

I used to play mafia on sites where many players did this. What's so wrong with wall posts?

[Greeting]

idk who this is:

Greeting

But... we played before!

[Greeting]

No, I'm not reading 15 pages accumulated in 24 hours.

[Greeting]

I don't like

Grendel

in this game at all.

gth Norwee is my biggest SR. Feels like he's quietly playing his own game in the background, and that smells like agenda. Present, active, but distant.

Bell is interesting as he also feels like he could fall into a similar boat. Tho he gives of the vibe of a player that'll be hard for me to read tonally.

These reads sound fake and manfactured to me. They sound like they come from the point of view of someone who doesn't see how towny

Bell

is acting and sounding. I could consider

NorwegianboyEE

as a potential scum moreso than

Bell

, but anything he may have ever posted is... just null. In my experience, scums quite rarely have emotions guiding their actions, it comes from town far more often. And so I'm inclined to think that

NorwegianboyEE

's earlier agitation I spoke of in 865 is towny.

Their reads on certain other players look really fake and superficial too, like:

Arcade looks like scum. Nothing this game has looked as motivated as what i used to know MariaR for. Idk anything about DUnn, but i don't really care. Norwee still looks like scum too.

Andante is scum lean.

Maybe it's just really hard for me to see what's so extremely scummy about either of these two (three). Like, sure, maybe if I read into them more deeply I

could

find a thing or two. But on surface level, both are very much null and I don't think my eye is any better or worse than that of a common person. When someone makes strong statements like this without substantiating them very much it just looks totally out of the blue.

Grendel

moved on way too quickly from my wagon. In 1282 he literally lists me at the bottom of the list and that's just because of... my wallpost supposedly. Now he's found another target fast. Add to that his predecessor (

MegAzumarill

), who normally is more active than they were in this game.

My gut says this is the right move. This slot got a red PM.

VOTE: Grendel

The only thing that comes to his defense in my mind is 1698, where he clearly defends

Ircher

(and I also think he's town), but in this situation I think it's scum trying to make themselves look cleaner.

I still think

T3

was scummy and

Val89

's latest posting hasn't changed my mind, so I'm willing to vote that too.

[Greeting]

VOTE: arcade

VOTE: arcade

im telling.

VOTE: Arcade

What's the case?

[Greeting]

VOTE: arcade

VOTE: arcade

im telling.

VOTE: Arcade

What's the case?

Why do people keep asking about this but not asking for one on ircher.

Because the last time I checked the case on

Ircher

was shit and I didn't see anything with regard to it change. Hope it helped!

[Greeting]

Or grendel for that matter.

If by "people" you mean me, then I am voting

Grendel

right now.

It does actually.

Well your naked vote isn't helpful for me at all.

[Greeting]

I don't think

Ircher

is scum and I'm not really going to read over the last 70+ pages to change my mind.

I do think, however, that Day One has been going on forever and the game has been going in circles for the last few real-life days.

[Greeting]

I only now realised, after the signature change, that

MUSHSHAGANA

is a hydra of two players: Shrike and Curse. I was very confused by the constant mentions of each and assumed it was some kind of nickname for players in this game.

In fact, they had said it to me before in a post, but truthfully, I didn't read it up very carefully and carried on as if that player was a case of someone having bizarre mood swings.

To my defense, I

did

look at the playlist several times before and they are

not

mentioned as a hydra there while it is made perfectly clear that players such as

Arcade Pals

and

The Three Bears

are. This inconsistency reinforced my incorrect belief that

MUSHSHAGANA

was one person.

CONTROL

In The Oldest House

Ircher
MUSHSHAGANA
Lady Lambdadelta
Bell
Cephrir
Andante

Dwlee99

NorwegianboyEE
The Three Bears (Titus, Flea the Magician, Noraa)
Galron
Roden
Malakittens
Mastina
Dunnstral

Arcade Pals (Dunnstral, MariaR)*

TheWayItEnds

Princess Elodie

Tet
Grendel

MegAzumarill

tictac
Toogeloo
Val89

T3

Save The Dragons
Greeting

No More

[Greeting]

So yeah, I found Shrike's behavior annoying and attacked Curse for it. But, to be fair, if you hydra up with someone, in my eyes, you take part of responsibility for their actions too.

[Greeting]

So yeah, I found Shrike's behavior annoying and attacked Curse for it. But, to be fair, if you hydra up with someone, in my eyes, you take part of responsibility for their actions too.

You know that Mush and I are plural and that this isn't a hydra but rather... something else right.

And that this is... somewhat offensive as a result. Not like, "oh my god you're terrible" offensive but "hey please be careful" offensive.

So... yeah.

Actually, no, I don't know what you mean like... at all.

And well, I disagree.

I was wrong with the fact that I should've paid more attention to their posts, especially when Curse explicitly pointed out the truth and I overlooked it, and I have the balls to admit that.

But I don't believe that it's a black&white situation either. While this is subjective, I don't think I am in the wrong for just... ignoring a player, because about 60-70% of the time (which I assume was when Shrike posted) I just have to put in three times as much effort than normally to even understand what they mean, let alone interpret it and put it into the context of the game. My mind is simply saying nope - I'll just focus elsewhere and solve the game this way, because it's easier for me that way. Sorry, not sorry.

[Greeting]

Read the signature again Greeting. Neurological Hydra.
Mush is plural. Technically not a hydra - as its one body. The alters form the hydra in this case, same as with me.

I don't understand. Isn't a hydra just a player account used by multiple players? The wiki says nothing about neurological hydras.

This actual hydra is Titus, Nora and Flea. Flea is made up of 1 primary player (Flea, the host) and 3 who stick their heads in and help out on occasion (M, S and D)

Its why the Pinkie posts end up being chaotic and disordered, there's 4 of us technically Though M is an easy spot, peep types with faer accent.

-Pinkie (F)

So

The Three Bears

is a hydra, of which one head has... two heads? No wonder I can barely follow this weird ass game.

[Greeting]

ok so like this is getting into oh god i dont wanna do this territory, i have the patience of an angry train running downhill i do not want to educate u here

the sig is curse bein clever, bc. like. the hydra mechanism is our brain LOL. its joke. facts time: fact is we are two ppl in one physical body. u can think of this like "multiple personalities" if u want. ur wrong if ur brain goes immediately to horror movies n scary psycho killers n shit but w/e i dont wanna waste time on explainin it better n like. u will be close enough for govt work as the saying goes

If we think of it that way, then I wasn't in the wrong at all. Dr. Jekyll (Curse) refused to fully acknowledge Mr. Hyde (Shrike) in that particular situation when they had done it before in other situations.

You don't have to educate me, but don't blame me for trying to get educated from others. And I think this is actually very relevant information to the game.

[Greeting]

What's your problem now, Mrs. Meta?

[Greeting]

What's your problem now, Mrs. Meta?

Are you committed to being a jerk?

I'm not, unless someone is a jerk to me first. So if that doesn't cease then nope.

like its truly impressive that u managed to not only find a slur against plurals on short notice but that u also managed to misgender everyone involved in the process. recordbreakingly thoughtless behavior. stunning work by our hero, bravo, well done

Back to ignoring you then, I guess.