Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[Bell]

I’m just sitting here tongue tied. How does one shit post with a mere 150 posts?

The dat’s/baltar thing is interesting. But not really the main drive this dp I hope. I’ve seen enough of Baltar and dat’s last games. To where I’d rather see them in the periphery. I sound like FL. /:

*watches*

@tako: easily done.

I don’t have any feelings on the gorilla, sk, I feel I probably should on fire. Just based on their first posts but eh.

I guess I see generally potential scummy things that have been said before but there’s not much like motivation so much as sentence structure similarities. Context iirrelevant.

Is my post large enough yet?
How about now?

[Bell]

I’m assuming the rhyme & reason thing isn’t a chat restriction because it’s irrelevant to the theme.
If it is, you need to clearly state this is the case in your next post and you need to spell out the consequences to breaking it.

[Bell]

Because gotta cut through the bullshit. It’s hard enough to figure out people’s alignments without faking chat restrictions.

[Bell]

Hi all. 125 posts per day doesn't seem like too much of a restriction.
I actually like Fey for bandwagoning to Datisi, but don't really have any opinion on the other votes or anyone else rlly

VOTE: Meuh
I feel like you're trying to do too much out of the gate? I mean, if you're town, I don't want to discourage you from solving. But it doesn't feel natural to me at least.

Was the original account owner kidnapped?

[Bell]

Tbh tbh, I reflexively town binned Marc for feeling similar to the last time I engaged with them. Fire feels only slightly different. But it’s kind of like a flavor more than a substance change.

@dwlee. Uh. Why do I have to place a vote?

I dunno what to do with the Waller and meuh.
Lavar seems more serious face than I’m used to, but they’ve given zero fucks as both town and scum. So I dunno what to make of them so far.

Not sure Luke comes out swinging on Marc but it’s early. Their abrupt push feels wrong, but given history, it’s probably just eh. It does feel odd to see someone say they’re confident they’re scum then start asking questions it feels disjointed but I don’t really see much motivation from a scum perspective to have that disjointedness

[Bell]

*raises finger to begin emphasizing a point*
*breath catches*

Okay.

Hmm. I’m processing. Did Dwlee ever explain why I needed to vote?
I’m ignoring most of the the questions (not that there are many) being thrown my way because they’re kind of meh.

Fire feels good to me now.

[Bell]

*stares at datisi* well the fire is there and it was missing last time.

Mena. What you think? Are you any good at reading dats? I don’t remember.

[Bell]

Sheepishness spotted.

[Bell]

I’m ignoring most of the the questions (not that there are many) being thrown my way because they’re kind of meh.

Hello friend. I would like for you to not to do this.

My follow up question from you was because your comment on my interaction with marci did not feel like a Real Thought, and I would like for you to engage with it more. Thanks!

Sure, I’m not surprised by your approach you said that. I said that it didn’t make sense for scum to push first and ask questions after. Since it shows a desire to continue to solve a slot after expressing confidence which, while not congruent with it, isn’t really what scum do.

@LLD: *psst* you missed.

[Bell]

@dwlee, you still haven’t answered. You just complained that you didn’t like it.

@Gamma: *psst* you still missed.

Anyway, today sucked I guess I’ll post later. I obvtown on my own tho, so. Oh Gooey doesn’t know me.

[Bell]

I’ll say this as many times as it takes, but not making sense isn’t a scum tell.
Yay, I love butting in where I’m not wanted to make totally productive and useful posts.

@Balt: a vague feeling. I know that Luke has a plan for Marc interactions probably either way. But I just don’t think that’s what’s happening here. It’s early, but unlike some *other players* *cough you know who you are* I’m probably not saying that because I want to hedge and hide in case miselim opportunity comes up and I discourage that from happening.

Or maybe not.

I’m terrible at alt guessing but I have zero clue who kovu is. I can’t think of many players that open like that, while also saying “like,” a lot.
I

[Bell]

Ok, I'm not gonna make a new post for every quote I want to respond to.

i feel like im probably still townreading here but. paranoia noted.

I felt this too. +town to fire.

Their abrupt push feels wrong, but given history, it’s probably just eh.

wdym by this?

Which obviously has a chance to be skewed, but I'm ok with it for what it produced.

Doubt

Apologises to those who dislike wall posts, but I not sure of the alternative here.

Can u summarize your points at the end?

I don't associate Lukewarm with early hard scum reads, but then they didn't really follow through.
That's good Takotsubo, I haven't played with Andante scum yet, but they're being just as confusing as usual.
Minus the giant reads list at the start. I have no idea why they did that.

[Bell]

The baltar whine about not being read correctly by red sure is a post of very low quality

[Bell]

Can someone vig sircakez.

[Bell]

VOTE: Fey

[Bell]

Oh. Actually I changed my mind. They seem fine..ish. I feel like there was someone more stilted but I can’t remember who it was. Wait are they fine? Mmm. They’re meh, but they seem kinda energized in how they talk. They pinged me when they just decided to sit around and ask people to hunt for them.
But then they didn’t. But they are voting town. But. Buuuttt. Eh. Keep an eye I think.

VOTE: Sircakez

[Bell]

You’re still voting town btw.
Just in case you didn’t know.

[Bell]

I'm at e-4 I think. I don't either either Marci or I are good wagons.

[Bell]

Semi worried this is a noraa situation though.

Bleh, Gamma, you hating on Bell because he is being wall paper and not answering questions?

ehhh mostly no? it's more of a gut read - Didn't really like his early posts, like wanting to cut through the bullshit of Rhyme & Reason but then going back to jokey nonsense asking Lavar if the original owner of the account was kidnapped rubbed me the wrong way, and Datisi having a scumlist with a first 3 being <marci, bell, meuh> made me feel pretty good about pushing it when I feel like all 3 all were pretty good early votes. His response to you about Luke/Marci is also way more convoluted than it needs to be and I have a hard time thinking that he typed that up meaning for it to actually be helpful to you or someone else in reading him.

As a sidenote, I disagree with your Dunn townread - I think I've seen like 3 people say they townread him and to me he looks the same as he did in the last game I was in where he was scum (Slaughter Hour), and I don't remember him being different in World of Tomorrow where we were both scum with him either (though my memory of that game isn't great tbf and I checked out a bit after I died). Like I haven't seen him as town in ages and it's still early game, but his vibe still seems like *he exists a little bit but never sticks his neck out and makes a big deal of anything relevant*.

Lukewarm you seem pretty gung-ho about this and it's at least a better wagon than Dats imo

You were voting Mueh before this... and why were you even voting her?
This is really weird.

Assuming you're asking why I was voting Mueh, her first two posts had multiple very, very early townreads with no scumreads, which I think is slightly more likely to come from scum since it's easier to envision/come up with reasons for people being town when you know they're town already. Also felt that the tako vote felt like a very easy *vote the newbie, ask them for more info* that wasn't likely to get them backlash from the player they're voting and just looks busy - on post #63 you can say you want more there for literally every player in the game. Their posting from #274 onwards feels a bit better than their early posting imo but I still wouldn't actually call her a townread yet.


I'm also just gonna post my quick notes on Marci since I think they'll be relevant to people taking a look at her+Bell+any other major wagons that are around as everyone starts showing up again

Spoiler: Marci Notes

Marci feels like an unconfident newbie trying to push people when they don't normally regardless of her alignment
the difference between the jokey tone & the serious? vote seems weird - I can imagine that she might have wanted to change her game/playstyle up because of confidence in a read or experiences in recent games but the Dats reasoning doesn't seem to be strong enough to justify it on its own
like "datisis the devil" in #148 is just confirmation bias. It seems like she'll keep posting and have other reads in the near future, and I want to see how she looks when her posts aren't 70+% Datisi related.

And lastly I think gorilla is town and Lavar feels slightly town to me too, and if you ask me I can iso them and make an attempt to turn "why" into words but GUT is what you get for now.

This wasn't jokey nonsense. Lavar played totally differently in the last two games I played with them. They were super dead weight, where here they just sound kind of fake in a robotic way that I don't quite get. It's sort of like an amalgamation of things town say .txt.
They were just a super shit poster before, nigh unreadable.

[Bell]

I'm at e-4 I think. I don't either either Marci or I are good wagons.

Then do something to make someone else a relevant wagon

..............You want me to make someone else a better wagon?

[Bell]

I think I'll wait until I get 1 or 2 more votes and then think about whose probably scum on it. Or who has intentionally avoided my wagon to avoid blow back/getting shot.

Just don't put me at L-1, I think we have at least 2 reflexive hammerers.

[Bell]

Meuh seems town to me.
Fire seems town to me.

Marci seems likely town to me, but I'm uncomfortable saying that when Lukewarm has a ping there. Then again, not listening to Lukewarm has been A+ the last 2 games lol.
Dwlee, I'm not sure they embarrass themselves by thinking the Marci/Bell wagon has scum in it as scum, it's fairly risky and gives them heat later that they don't really need.
Datisi, is just....Meh this game. They feel plain. But I don't know what to make of it.
Tbh, beyond a few sparks of slight creativity Baltar feels the same as last game. They got mad, but all I got from it was a brain dead vote on me, it was probably the worst vote this game, but hard to tell if it's just a character trait or not given they're relatively new to me.
I roughly agree with the universe aligning with Kovu, they're just as odd as usual. I dunno know that automatically makes them town but it might.
I actually think heart syndrome sounds vaguely town but they're sort of a none presence so it's hard to know for sure.

That's all I got so far.

This isn't antispew btw, in case you were wondering.

[Bell]

Dunnstrall feels very dunnstral this game.
I don't really agree with Val reads, they haven't really passed the bar yet.
Gamma's fine...Ish one ping here or there.
Already talked about Fey. One scum ping. I might actually have an alt guess that is accurate for once. But it doesn't help. Since they're kinda lackadaisical as either alignment.

Rhyme and reason's posts are bad. But it's hard to tell with their hard commit to posting gimmick.

LLD is V/LA until Tuesday.

[Bell]

Retracting Meuh TR,
they could be self-possessed town, sure.
But they could also be fake stubborn scum.

[Bell]

Self-possessed does not mean what I thought it meant.
I meant more like, they seemed stuck in their own patterns of thought and narratives. Like narratives with some highish level of viscosity to it. It's not particularly scummy, but it's not townie either.

[Bell]

Why was I awake at 4 AM.

[Bell]

To be fair, meta is a very good way to read me. Most of the time.

Gorilla isn't saying it, but they are unhappy that someone changed their mind. It's easier to get rid of me earlier than it is to get rid of me later, because I inevitably find the time to become impossible to eliminate. If you want to kill me, it's best to go in early before I start towning it up. I don't really think other than my semi-awkward entrance (for me) that you can say I'm not really reflecting how I normally play. There's not much nuance behind what I'm saying yet, because a lot of the posts players have made, I've seen some shade of before.

Also, Lukewarm asked me to answer questions and engaging with people's questions has almost never been fruitful. They usually just dig themselves into a scum read because they can't tell what honesty looks like or they're scum that doesn't really care.

[Bell]

Yes, please sheep your meta unto scum me.

[Bell]

*pokes Baltar* are you scum again? Because you're doing that thing where you collaborate with people inoffensively.

[Bell]

Yes, please sheep your meta unto scum me.

what are your thoughts on Lava calling Enchant town cause "scum enchant would do more"

I've never seen Enchant do a goddamn thing as either alignment.

[Bell]

I don't really know how much Lavar has played with enchant, but the general mindset progression of enchant from game to game should be.

"what the fuck are they doing?" -> "There must be a pattern!" -> "Heres a meta tell I thought up of how to differentiate between them, Oh, I was wrong." -> "Maybe this meta tell will work? Opps still wrong" -> "dayvig enchant" *coin flips*

[Bell]

Could be they're on step 3. Or not. It takes me awhile to figure out any sort of TMI reveal because, get this. I don't have TMI so I don't know what information they're acting on. I coul probably be better on that tbh, or at least spend more brain power on it. But I don't really. In general Lavar feels what I can only describe as a walking clicheofthingstownsay.txt.
Sort of like Cephrir, but not funny or charismatic.

[Bell]

Not really, I sort of thought the same thing about Sircakez before wiping it from my brain because it was a thought unlikely to be acurate.
I was surprised when they came in and promptly didn't try.

[Bell]

All I know about Baltar this game is that his posting isn't the kind of posting that I like. It seems remarkably out of place and poorly thought out.
I dunno why scum him would push at you when you're more predictable than the sun rising in the east though.

[Bell]

It's OOG stuff having to do with being self-conscious about Prism and wanting to perform but it's awkward to talk about.
It's probably just life stuff. Though yes. Sircakez scum sucks uniquely to sircakez town.

[Bell]

..................
I'll keep it short.

Once, Prism got mad at Sircakez for not kicking a player who was being super toxic fast enough.
Sircakez was hung up about it for months.
Sircakez thought he might WOTM'd out if he tried to join this game.
He wasn't.
But Sircakez has a mental resilience, I've seen in his town games after miseliminating me once and blowing it. So I know he's able to just reset and think things through in a more healthy manner. So, I didn't mention it.

[Bell]

...and how do those reads relate to the prospect of Bell flipping scum?

Both are being independently useless and bemoaning in their own way how people posting in the game right now, which is primarily coalescing around a Bell yeet today, fmpov.

It reads to me like an effort to shift the status quo without drawing too much attention.

Really? Is that what you actually think? What scum have you been playing with?

[Bell]

That's a reduction of much more nuanced takes.
I said I was town reading Kovu because I agreed with the universe centering on them in Kovu-town land, but that I wasn't certain because who is?
Dunstrall feeling like Dunstral is a slight town read, because I've played with dunn scum 1 whole time and town dunn like 10 times. But I've probably thought Dunn was scum in 3 out of 10 of those games. So.

[Bell]

And Bell saying this isn't my town meta based on a single game where I duped him as scum is laughable. Bell doesn't have the experience with me to actually claim a meta read. I believe what he is trying to do is to echo fire's meta read as a way to form a subtle pocket there. It's like catnip for fire.

Actually, I asked you if you were scum again and you didn't answer.
...A subtle pocket huh? What's it like making stuff up without caring if it's accurate or not?

[Bell]

Lol I kicked the hornets nest there. Scum big mad

Actually you kicked Kovu, which is such a poor move for scum to make that I actually thought you must've been town for it because scum you wouldn't be that clueless.

[Bell]

You said that last time.

[Bell]

No. Because there are plenty of other miseliminations in the sea for scum to go for?

[Bell]

Still skimming, but is anyone else getting the feeling from the last couple of pages that Kovu really wants someone to scumread me for a lack of activity, and is getting frustrated noone is biting?

Wants literally anyone but Bell to be the yeet.

*raises finger*
Eh. This statement is so bad it defeats itself.

[Bell]

...
Do you think scum make posts with an implied scum perspective?
I answered them from the only perspective they could take.

[Bell]

Val implied that Kovu was trying to miseliminate them and floated the idea that Kovu was frustrated that nobody seemed interested. Val as scum or Val as town always talks from the perspective of town because to do otherwise would be to say they were scum complaining of being called out for not trying. Which isn't something scum would say.
I don't even see the motivation for Val to point this out, perhaps because Kovu called them out specifically by name and it bothered them, but instead of directly asking Kovu about that, they asked the crowd instead. It's not strange per se, but it's not direct either which could be either preference in being indirect or because they want something else out of their post and others responing to it.
The way they phrased it seemed to be that Kovu was specifically trying to kill them, but there's little reason from that perspective to suspect one player is having it out for one specific player when there are plenty of other players that you could go for. There's even more interest toward other inactives from other player statements. It could be a mistake of ego, but I fin it either poorly worded or poorly thought out.

[Bell]

Still skimming, but is anyone else getting the feeling from the last couple of pages that Kovu really wants someone to scumread me for a lack of activity, and is getting frustrated noone is biting?

Wants literally anyone but Bell to be the yeet.

I mean, you are correct in that she has openly stated she doesn't want to elim Bell today. That's not really a secret.

The question follows: are you postulating that they are scum together?

Because that seems like such an over the top surface-level sort of worldbuilding that means you're either putting no thought into the game at all or are scum.

I'm saying if Bell flips scum, it makes Kovu look worse. Like, I explicitly said that. That's not world building, it's trying to read the game state (and maybe kick a little sand to see what stirs up).

You think I'm dumb, then lim Bell and call for my head tomorrow.

Why do you want me dead again?

[Bell]

1. This might have been true 7 pages ago.
2. Presently, I'm pretty town now. I wasn't 7 pages ago.
3. I always do this. Because I feel it helps to let people know what they're voting in case they don't know.
4. I get annoyed occasionally, I've done this before and I'll do it after this game too.
5. Skipping to the Gorilla. It's you asking them if, in a list of more than 7 players if they think there is exactly one scum in there and that's what they were thinking or if there were more. It's a dense question.

[Bell]

I don't even see the motivation for Val to point this out, perhaps because Kovu called them out specifically by name and it bothered them, but instead of directly asking Kovu about that, they asked the crowd instead. It's not strange per se, but it's not direct either which could be either preference in being indirect or because they want something else out of their post and others responing to it.
The way they phrased it seemed to be that Kovu was specifically trying to kill them, but there's little reason from that perspective to suspect one player is having it out for one specific player when there are plenty of other players that you could go for. There's even more interest toward other inactives from other player statements. It could be a mistake of ego, but I fin it either poorly worded or poorly thought out.

I also see Kovu revote LavarManos, and my recollection was that the genesis of that read was that Lavar had

dared

to not call me scummy, and the fact they even considered me 'nulltown' must be evidence of TMI, and out of all the reads and justifications given, that was the one that warranted Kovu's vote. The very fact that comprehensive list of leads came shortly after I decided I didn't think a comprehensive reads list was a good idea in this setup felt like a pointed rejection of that premise, same with Datisi, whom, spoiler alert, I don't exactly trust right now.

So yeah, maybe it is ego, but it does appear Kovu has somewhat of a preoccupation with my slot.

Kovu town does this. *shrug*. I would suggest you look elsewhere, I think they're town. But you do you.

[Bell]

Yes, please sheep your meta unto scum me.

what are your thoughts on Lava calling Enchant town cause "scum enchant would do more"

I've never seen Enchant do a goddamn thing as either alignment.

This is wildly incorrect, ftr. Enchant town definitely tries in his own way and it is easy to see his mind working in his limited posts when he's town.

This game, Enchant is doing nothing and is saving his posts out of fear of running over today (lol).

You sound like Pooky. It was a joke. But Enchant is hard to read. Pretending otherwise does not make it easier to read them.

[Bell]

@Bell you seem to be pretty self-aware of your meta and how you're playing (explicitly saying this isn't anti-spew in #323 for example) - Why make the *miss* posts/mentions to LLD & me at all? Like it just comes off as annoying and I don't see how/why you'd think anyone would think it's something you'd only do as town.
Also, is #399 just your personal notes/thoughts on Val/Kovu? I have no idea what you're trying to get across with that post.

1. I already answered this. I like to point out when people are wrong and I find it sort of funny when people don't just take things at face value. Especially when it would save them some agony. An example would be (if Baltar is town) that they can't tell the difference between honest reads and fake ones. Fence sitting/hedging is also just uncertainty staring you in the face, which is what town usually face because they don't know who the scum are.
2. Baltar asked me to break it down for them. I broke down Val's post and what I thought about it.

I'm pretty good with Kovu town and Fire town so far. Kovu is kind of comforting in how easy they are to read. Uh, I forgot who brought this up, but the picking strong town reads is actually a playstyle thing. I said it in the last game I played. I usually grab 3-4 strong town reads per day phase and replace when they die (they usually do). It's a meta fail. But not an unexpected one. Ah, it was Marci.

[Bell]

As a reminder, I usually just wouldn't engage and solve on my own. Lukewarm asked me to handicap myself by answering people's questions when I town it up on my own but have had nothing but bad experiences when talking directly with people in games of mafia.
Though I'm towning it up on my own now. Irregardless of the engagement.

My awkward start was just a remnant of how I play as a power role before defaulting back to being me. Which I'm fully in now.

[Bell]

Uh, if you're starting with "This won't be real content" just wait. If you're on V/LA.
Just hang out in V/LA land. That's okay.

[Bell]

I find it sort of funny when people don't just take things at face value.

I mean, why would you expect people to do that in a game of mafia?

That's the joke. You can open wolf or open town and nobody gets it.
Well, my playstyle is to get town read, plus other idiosyncracies supposedly i'm "very self-aware"

I already claimed a PR, you guys should probably vote elsewhere or explain why you aren't.

[Bell]

Sure, my role is confirmable after tonight assuming my target doesn't die.
So, this is a for sure loser of a vote.

As for hinting at being a PR, tbh, not really. I usually act this way when someone suspects me, there's a reason I like to keep votes on me low as town and it's largely because I react badly to being scum read.
Your lack of an unvote is noted. It's not a threat, just an observation in the big book of Baltar.

[Bell]

People that know LLD tend to treat them differently. Players rarely treat her as just another mafia player. Well, most people treat people like not just another mafia player when they get to know them a few times, but it deviates a lot differently and in weird directions.

[Bell]

Well, that was a solid post from Sircakez in a sort of, 'Okay those are some reads and some light content I guess.' way. My vindictus shot is still there. though I doubt I'll ever get to use it.

[Bell]

I'm too paranoid of LLD to ever think they're super townie. They have games like this though. They'll eventually post more.
Usually anyway.

@Enchant: I originally targeted Lavar just as the game started before they even posted and switched it to Sircakez Yesterday.

[Bell]

*snort*

[Bell]

Twilight vig everyone

[Bell]

I’m confused how you could simultaneously think that dayvig was real while also having the exact same vindictus targets that I had.
Don’t ask why. It would melt your brain if I explained it.

[Bell]

Would you prefer I hard claim?
I already said my role is confirmable, that's all you need to know and I gave more of a hint besides. I'm absurdly easy to read anyway even without it and have the most posts in the game. My content during the weekdays tends to be week and when I have time on the weekends I usually town it up and I did that here.

[Bell]

Baltar, are you serious? They've been doing plenty.

[Bell]

I’m not against a gamma vote, if only because they just naked voted Marci while caution preaching.

[Bell]

I’m against the Marci wagon.

Sadly most of the people I want dead have less than 10 posts. But it’s a good place to start imo.

[Bell]

I don’t really agree with mind meld hypothesis, but meh.
Why did you set your targets the way you set them Meuh?

This is probably going to be my last short post and I’ll just have to commit to walls of nonsense from
Here on out.

[Bell]

It took me awhile, but I've warmed to Lukewarm.

I still think we should probably kill Sircakez or R&R.

[Bell]

More sircakez votes.

I thought about walling and thinking. But I’m good. I hate walling.

[Bell]

More sircakez votes. Please and thank you.

[Bell]

No case, gut and have to start cutting out the inactives.
I’m fine killing mala or R&R too.

[Bell]

Or Dwlee.

[Bell]

I can’t divine people’s alignments from 8 posts.
You’re entering the ideology lane again. I don’t want to discuss the morality of killing difficult to read slots.

[Bell]

Yes, I’m bad at mafia. I’ve never pretended otherwise.
Uh, I have not hidden my views and I have elaborated on some reads.
You’re also missing that there’s a good reason to pressure inactive slots.

[Bell]

You’ve played with bell many times. And either scum read me every time you were scum or misread me with over a thousand posts. And you’re saying this when I claimed a role that confirms itself the next day phase?

Okay.

[Bell]

Thanks for that Val. You can vote them now.

[Bell]

They’re not, I don’t have 4 votes tho.
They sound kinda fake and they seem needlessly combative/posturey.

[Bell]

I don’t have top tier scum reads . It’s day one and I’ve been wrong about my last 15 day 1 scum reads.

Oh, yeah, he’s being really ignorant. The nicest thing I could say about Baltar and him this game is that maybe they’re challenging it in the hopes in preventing an NK.
But that’s neither of their styles so. Either they genuinely believe what they’re saying and can’t read me or they’re trying to keep the door open in case they get lucky.

[Bell]

Brother is graduating. Heading to San Francisco for 3 days. I’d say V/LA but the last time I went to San Francisco I posted just fine. Because I was bored. So tentative inactivity announcement of dubious follow through.

The only post I’ve felt was natural from sircakez was the part where they said I pissed them off.
But the rest has been pretty plastic.

[Bell]

can we instead vote marci who weirdly dipped out the thread the second they were asked what their read on me was consisted of

Explain how this is scummy.
People have been going for marci all day and the second someone said something that sounded kind of good everyone went after her again.

[Bell]

Is this true Marci? do you have no reads this game and just floated by?
Is that normal for you day 1?
What's different this game compared to those if not and what's the same?
What are you thinking about this game?
Who oo you think is town nd who do you think is scum?

@Lukewarm: Where is Marci in your reads right now?

[Bell]

What makes you town this game Marci? What have you done here that scum you wouldn't have done, or what would you have done as scum that you didn't do here?

[Bell]

Luke, your argument for LLD town is just that they’d be trying harder if they weren’t.
That’s well, not a good argument to make. We dunno what she’s dealing with and she’s not shy about focusing on what she needs to focus on.

[Bell]

i've had plenty of games where i've done nothing as both alignments, so i don't really understand the reads on either side of that. all it means is i got sick after my vacation ended and i'm nursing myself back to health, lol. this is day 2 of calling in sick to work.

i'm sorry if i'm disappointing people who wanted me to give a fuck, but sadly, i don't.

i'm willing to check in a few times today, so if people have questions they want me to answer, pleasepost them asking at me, but also, please post quoted posts for me to read so i can actually understand wtf yuo're asking me about. like, i won't get the context until i properly read the game, so please provide your own context. BYOC. bring your own context.

yeah

Are Dunnstral’s pop ins town pop ins or scum pop ins?
What do you think of baltar and sircAkez are either of them scum fake instead of town fake?
What do you think of Lavar’s posting style this game?
What do you think of Marci and Fey?
What do you think of Dwlee’s posts this game?
What do you think of Mala’s posts this game? Fun fact takasobo syndrome is sometimes called broken heart syndrome because it can activate during times of extreme stress. I think a dude that was married to one of the gun victims died of it recently. Why do you think Mala(mala can answer this too) why they alt putted themselves?
What do you think of Mala’s meta posts about how they expect players to play early?
Why did you vote me?
Why did you encourage gamma to vote me?(I think gamma is town. But I’m not sure).

[Bell]

My tinfoil is that Datisi and Marci are partners. Marci tried to bus Datisi early and could not justify it.

This is possibly the most bonkers take I have ever seen.

Not even in my top 50.

[Bell]

I'm baffled that nobody seems to think how fast the votes accumulated on me as suspicious. Additionally, there is no effort from anybody voting me to actually explain why I am scum. The confusing thing is that I think this wagon has been driven by town. I don't really get it lol

They’ve all been pretty abrupt. The general sentiment you’re making is noted. But specifics would be nice.

[Bell]

It is very annoying that people disappear when wagons build on them. Yes

[Bell]

It depends if that’s Mena or S_S. S_S is fine with giving away some mechanics knowledge for friendly reads. They’ve done it before.

[Bell]

This is a townie.

Stuff like this is why people think you're 100% certain about your reads

TMI. Gottem’
*snore*

[Bell]

S_S niche is mechanics chat. Chances are if there’s a game S_S is playing they’re gunna bring up mechanics.

But I’m not here to rope your reads in.
I’m wasting my time, but mostly I’m just saying what my own more cautious reads are. But it won’t result in anything.
Hum. Oh well. Introspection is for the birbs.

[Bell]

I’d like someone to tell me if Val’s focus is normally as narrow as it is this game.
To me they sound pretty realistic/natural. But there’s
What is either an AI aspect to them or it’s an idiosyncrasy of theirs.
I Don’t think I’ve played with Val before.

Wanna share Val?

[Bell]

Mine. Mine. Mine!

[Bell]

Robbed.

[Bell]

I don’t agree with any takes that have fire scum in them at this time. Also, you’re missing the motivation for town to kill people they suspect too. Sure though, he could have been trying to get them to expand on their read to solidify their scum read of you. Or, they just wanted to get a read on like or get an idea of what they thought.

[Bell]

…This is a me thing, but I’d refrain from looking for associations before flips if I were you.

[Bell]

(in fact if Lavar flips scum I think I might want to nuke you into orbit for this post because it seems like kind of a perfect bus post)

if you think this is how i jump onto a wagon of my buddy then i am disappointed

Oh, that's a town slip. Finally.

[Bell]

I'm really satisfied with a lavar flip. The dip after pressure is characteristic of caught scum

…I can’t believe people still say this. Haven’t you ever been embarrassed before?

[Bell]

It’s the dip in activity part I was taking about. That’s not characteristic of anything.

[Bell]

VOTE: Lavar

[Bell]

The only interesting thing about that vote is that you actually responded to it lol.

[Bell]

I agree with Gooey and Kovu that the activity of players sucks this game.
But they’re not increasing their activity. We just need to kill them one at a time until morale improves.

[Bell]

Sure. But I’m going to avoid the power struggle here and just say I’d prefer lavar to Dwlee. Because I trust the people who are voting lavar more than I trust the people voting Dwlee.

[Bell]

The only interesting thing about that vote is that you actually responded to it lol.

I think it's interesting you directly avoided a growing Dwlee wagon for Lavar

You completely ignored all my questions that I asked you after you willingly volunteered to do so.

[Bell]

I still have no idea if this is an act you’re putting on. I know I don’t have to explain the nuance between content less posts and number of posts. I defended you when people were giving you a hard time for complaining about activity. Though, loyalty as a concept is something I’ve unsubscribed to.

[Bell]

It’s always been my first reaction to the posts you make. Whenever I have no idea why you’re behaving or feeing a certain way, I just get confused.

[Bell]

Kovu is obvtowning so hard right now

They had done this 3 years ago.

[Bell]

‘Twas’ a lead in to a joke vig luke.

[Bell]

I am upset with how day one has gone.
Oh well. Watch scum flip day one proving me an idiot.

[Bell]

Nobody wants to lim Enchant because their slot is a nothing burger with no interactions to work with
Better to Invictus it

Okay Sircakez: your next post needs to be why you’re voting Dwlee.
@VPBaltar: your next post needs to be explaining how it makes sense to pressure vote someone one day before deadline.

Both of you.
Why are you thinking so bad?

[Bell]

1. Activity.
2. Me looking cool on a Bell led scum wagon. Breaking my streak of bad D1 miselims.
3. Me and LLD rolling the same alignment.

[Bell]

4. At least one genuinely funny joke someone made.
5. Pizza

[Bell]

So enchant was in your pool too, but because enchant didn’t recently make bad posts you’re voting dwlee instead of enchant?
Your vote would be uselessly hanging off enchant if Dwlee had made a prod dodge post instead?

[Bell]

Lavar: please claim and then die unless you claim something useful and are that power role in which case I am sorry please forgive me I don’t know who the scum are.

[Bell]

True, for the most part I agree with this. Though his strategy for avoiding being yeeted otr is to spam takes and reads every 5 minutes.

[Bell]

VT
Don’t really have time right now. Sorry guys.

You did fine.

[Bell]

More votes in case they’re hated. I know it’s unlikely. But just in case.

[Bell]

…what ever the opposite of hated is.

[Bell]

Hi baltar

[Bell]

I can’t tell if LLD got invictus’d or if Datisi did.
I’m glad I read datisi correctlyish.

[Bell]

Tbh tbh.

Tbh tbh.

Tbh tbh. >_>

Maybe you.

[Bell]

Anyway. I did the thing to confirm myself so I’m off the table now. Please keep that in mind.

[Bell]

No shenanigan’s Gooey. Yeah.

[Bell]

I sent it to Baltar even though I heavily suspect them because they can’t kill themselves and they either need to put as scum, gambit, or out the result. Plus if they’re not, they get more context into the game and maybe get a clearer picture of the game state.

[Bell]

VOTE: gammagooey

?

[Bell]

VOTE: gammagooey

?

[Bell]

Work is busy and will likely continue to be busy for the next 3 to 4 days.

I'm pretty conflicted about my scum reads right now.
Mala might be the safest bet from my perspective right now. But it's basically a blind vote.
I'm largely conflicted with decision paralysis right now. I was pretty tunneled on Baltar to be honest. During the night phase. But I've been so busy I actually lost track.

@Luke, I explained my reasoning for choosing Baltar, it wasn't because I trusted them.

[Bell]

VOTE: Malakittens

[Bell]

Missed it. I got that they were softing, but not more than that.

UNVOTE:

[Bell]

Please help.

[Bell]

I have a slight town lean on gorilla.
Val doesn’t seem like scum to me.

[Bell]

If I shrug do you promise not to speed eliminate them while I get through the next 3 days at work.
What is the deadline.
What year is it

[Bell]

My opinion on Dwlee is that, i have a hard time reading Dwlee, I feel like he used to phone in his scum games but now I’m not sure anymore.

I’m really the best. Really utilizing my role and status to the fullest. Absolutely helping our win con.

I am dying. I am busy.

[Bell]

Who thinks Dwlee is town?

@dwlee do you think you’re town?

[Bell]

It would probably be more mealy mouthed I think.

[Bell]

I’m noticing that the way dwlee is wording stuff seems to be intentionally avoiding the assertion of their reality as town in their grammar and sentence structure and furthermore

[Bell]

Also to be honest, I just realized that marci is a survivor playing survivor in a mafia game and we should probably just kill that even though from a meta perspective I shouldn’t.

[Bell]

The only thing that makes me want to let fey live is that they keep coming back to what they say is at the heart of their town game: “why can’t you recognize me, for me?”

But otherwise very meh, please find scum.

[Bell]

Would find it sort of unlikely though this is dumb, that mala fake claims a clear on a partner. It relies on two people playing a role well.
So far R&R are playing that role well but Mala isn’t.

[Bell]

I’m still gut tunneled on Baltar.

Sorry.

[Bell]

I’m still gut tunneled on Baltar.

Sorry.

I just hope you are better at using an invictus shot than you are at playing confirmed town.

Even if I had time and spent hours pouring over every page this still wouldn’t be the case.
My lack of activity is just due to my job and accumulated fatigue. School year’s almost over.

[Bell]

My primary confusion with this statement is why claim and lodge yourself into a role before you really need to.
Now if you get caught doing something you shouldn’t you have to explain yourself.

[Bell]

By the way Baltar how did you make up your claim last game anyway? It was well constructed.

[Bell]

VOTE: Sircakez

[Bell]

Do not believe Kovu. They’ve lied before on investigates and results.

[Bell]

There’s also mala to consider.

[Bell]

You’re basically telling me that a bunch of investigators are 1 shot and all of the power roles in this game have outted on d1.
This is something prism would absolutely punish so we’ve put ourselves at a disadvantage at best.

[Bell]

Where are you getting they have to be 1-shot, or is that an assumption you are making based on what you think would pass review?

They outed easily, and without further results. It would be game throwing to out results the second they get them unless they were in serious danger of being eliminated (debatable for Mala, but absolutely not the case for Kovu$

[Bell]

If you want to shoot cakez, I would invictus with you there.

no

Stop faking clears on people.

[Bell]

…>.> I just don’t know how to say this after my last game with Luke but I really think this is their town game because they seem *this* close to having a meltdown and seem pretty mad overall. Whenever they get pushed this has been my experience with town Luke.

But I’ve never played with scum luke.

[Bell]

If you want to shoot cakez, I would invictus with you there.

no

Stop faking clears on people.

IT'S NOT FAKE, LITERALLY STOP SAYING IT IS.

This isn’t what someone with a real result would say, they would say, “actually yeah I lied” and then when you get shot, you demonstrated that you lied about lying.

[Bell]

I’m not assuming you’re faking it. I think you’re taking it because you’ve faked clears in the past and showed zero inclination you were going to take any feed back about it or even really acknowledged people’s concerns.

Sure thanks.

[Bell]

See that’s the thing. I respect their possible fake clear on R&R while simultaneously acknowledging that they’re probably scum and just gambiting to live another day phase because that’s better than efforting.

[Bell]

I’m not assuming you’re faking it. I think you’re taking it because you’ve faked clears in the past and showed zero inclination you were going to take any feed back about it or even really acknowledged people’s concerns.

Sure thanks.

why do I care about your concerns with my clear?

Beats me lol.

[Bell]

…>.> I just don’t know how to say this after my last game with Luke but I really think this is their town game because they seem *this* close to having a meltdown and seem pretty mad overall. Whenever they get pushed this has been my experience with town Luke.

But I’ve never played with scum luke.

i don't think its exclusive to town luke

viewtopic.php?p=13383060#p13383060

dunnstral you may take a swing at my ego it’s free.

1. The difference is that Luke was calling people dumbasses in that one versus this one in which they’re trying not to call people dumbasses in this one.

[Bell]

See that’s the thing. I respect their possible fake clear on R&R while simultaneously acknowledging that they’re probably scum and just gambiting to live another day phase because that’s better than efforting.

so you respect that, but don't respect me? got it.

I respect people in general enough to say that I don’t think you got it lol. I used respect to mean “I acknowledge that, if they’re scum their fake result is probably on a town RR”

[Bell]

Normally I would shy away from engaging you since it’s not productive and I think you’re town. But sure. I have the posts and I’m conflicted with all the wagons tbh. Dwlee seems the easiest.

[Bell]

Scum me has fun and goes wild.

As it is I'm waiting 'till tomorrow to get into things, yes I have a reason, yes you can ask me about it tomorrow.

I don't actually remember scum you ever having fun. But I'm glad you probably had fun as scum at one point and I hope this is true irregardless.

[Bell]

I want to note that I think VP Baltar and Enchant have both towntold very heavily in response to the dram over the last few pages. Paranoid world says that Baltar could step in between what he sees as an inevitable tvt implosion as scum to farm credit but I think the concern and the way he's trying to convince luke to shoot in the POE is legitimate. Enchant posting the way he did just doesn't come from scum and I would very much oppose killing them at this point.

More willing to vote Dunn at this point given more confidence in my townreads and narrowing PoE.


Would also be entirely willing to flashwagon Fey if anyone had the desire for it. Think she fits the exact model of where I'd expect scum to be: bland, unmemorable, doing exactly enough to avoid suspicion and nothing more. Trying not to stand out, as it were.

I don't agree with this, Baltar is the kind of scum I like, they're fairly assertive, active, and involved.

[Bell]

I want to note that I think VP Baltar and Enchant have both towntold very heavily in response to the dram over the last few pages. Paranoid world says that Baltar could step in between what he sees as an inevitable tvt implosion as scum to farm credit but I think the concern and the way he's trying to convince luke to shoot in the POE is legitimate. Enchant posting the way he did just doesn't come from scum and I would very much oppose killing them at this point.

More willing to vote Dunn at this point given more confidence in my townreads and narrowing PoE.


Would also be entirely willing to flashwagon Fey if anyone had the desire for it. Think she fits the exact model of where I'd expect scum to be: bland, unmemorable, doing exactly enough to avoid suspicion and nothing more. Trying not to stand out, as it were.

Enchant always jokes adjacent to the battlefield.
I like your perspective that if this was tvt Baltar is trying to farm credit.

Oh, Sircakez apologized for not being here. Maybe I was wrong and they're town after all.

[Bell]

…>.> I just don’t know how to say this after my last game with Luke but I really think this is their town game because they seem *this* close to having a meltdown and seem pretty mad overall. Whenever they get pushed this has been my experience with town Luke.

But I’ve never played with scum luke.

i don't think its exclusive to town luke

viewtopic.php?p=13383060#p13383060

dunnstral you may take a swing at my ego it’s free.

1. The difference is that Luke was calling people dumbasses in that one versus this one in which they’re trying not to call people dumbasses in this one.

Posts like this are so jarring to me; I don't know what you are referring to but you seem to think I'm going to "take a swing at your ego"

Actually, I invited you to take a swing at my ego, because it's a distinction without a difference or one that I'm not really skilled enough to differentiate. We had a recent argument about something similar in our last game.

[Bell]

idk what i prefer

tbh probably once meuh shows up and starts talking again ill prefer dwlee again

i don't wanna make decisions

There's that town cowardice I know and love.
*high fives*

[Bell]

I’m really against a meuh elimination even though they’re weird.

[Bell]

You're not even denying you're engaging with Dwlee in bad faith, you're just saying Dwlee has also done so. Kinda confused

That's not what happened at all.

As far as you pushing me again, who else are you going to push of the people voting you? I'm the easiest approach

This is actually exactly what happened.

[Bell]

*takes reins*

Fire who do you wanna lim? *let’s go of reins*

I’m utterly and totally tunneled on Baltar.
I’m open to Marci if Luke is comfortable killing there.

[Bell]

Enchant is playing at a higher level than kovu and bell at this point lol. Bell, you're being ridiculous and I don't know what I can say to help you. What exactly do you think is scummy about me? You just keep saying you're tunneled, but like, what have I done to make you feel that way.

Kovu, I find the way you play this game to be very frustrating. That's the nicest way I can put it.

@gorilla - can you explain your change in perspective a bit more than: I slept on it? What specifically shifted for you on luke? I also feel like a dunn vote at this point is a bit of a nowhere vote (though he is noticeably absent.

Pedit - why are you voting me val?

Every post you make feels like bullshit.

[Bell]

It's day 2 with no scum flips and also if you're town you have no idea how right I am except on you and you're objectively playing like your last scum game so you shouldn't be surprised I scumread you here

I objectively play the same way as either alignment. You have played with me enough to know this. There are subtle differences that are obvious to me, but you being like "you said I was trolling you in a scum game too!" is dogshit reasoning.

At some point, if you're town, it'd be cool if you took a modicum of responsibility for your own play here.

A lie or delusion. In your first statement before back pedaling into “only I can read me”

[Bell]

Sure. But I doubt I’ll have something more given apparently you’re unreadable to anybody but yourself.
Dwlee took full responsibility for their reads already, you saying it, is just emotional manipulation.

[Bell]

Actually they’re saying that they think you’re scum because based on their experience with you they think you’re scum.


Okay Baltar time out. I want you to sit to the side for a moment. Okay. You lied real bad at the end of that game. I was town reading you for most of it but I didn’t hard defend you in the end because your brain broke and you started tmi’ing.

[Bell]

You did good, but this “I 100% fooled you” thing.
Nah. I had doubts. You deciding it was a 100% win is just not true and it’s annoying if you really think that or if this is just rhetoric or you being surly or whatever.

[Bell]

You did good, but this “I 100% fooled you” thing.
Nah. I had doubts. You deciding it was a 100% win is just not true and it’s annoying if you really think that or if this is just rhetoric or you being surly or whatever.

My point is that I was townread that game for a long time until I made a greedy play trying to pave my way to end game. I didn't get caught because I got super sleuthed. The person who came closest to that was dwlee. It was good play by them to not buy my bullshit there.

But you're not going to catch me in any game because of things like phrasing. I'm not a noob at this game. That is my point. I'm not trying to ego flex on you or something. I think most people in this game are good players, which makes me suss when I see such bad arguments being made about why I am scum. Its extremely unhelpful that you, as confirmed town, and Kovu, as pretty obvious town, keep pushing unfounded paranoia. It's town poison and it's frustrating to me to watch what I feel like is game throwing behavior.

What I am doing with you is trying to get you to explain your position beyond your feelings, because that's not really something I can help you with to arrive at the proper conclusion that I'm town. If you're going to just shit tunnel, we may as well stop talking because I'm not going to waste my dwindling post count for today on that.

Your point keeps getting lost under emotional manipulations, posturing and insincerity.

[Bell]

A doctor, two investigative and a friendly neighbor along with whatever Luke is.

[Bell]

Let’s wait for Dunn to evaluate the claim and then do the opposite of what he tells us to do.

[Bell]

That was quite the mess.

VOTE: Val89

[Bell]

R&R is confirmed. I’m confirmed. Gorilla and Red seem unlikely.

[Bell]

Yeah, you’re right. I’m fake claiming something while in danger that does nothing to give a reason to keep me alive. Nice catch, Dunn.

Didn’t Marci do this.

[Bell]

I think we should kill sircakez to be totally honest. >_>
You should see his neighborhood posts.

[Bell]

I’m in the neighborhood with the two of them now.

[Bell]

I mean, a doctor claim is going to have a lot more reason to keep it alive than “I am a detective who has used all of their shots.”

If I cared about preserving myself I would have lied and said I had more available.

They were odd night. Or something. So they couldn’t protect and were clearly fishing for a protective.

[Bell]

I mean, a doctor claim is going to have a lot more reason to keep it alive than “I am a detective who has used all of their shots.”

If I cared about preserving myself I would have lied and said I had more available.

I simple don't believe you.

YOU LITERALLY HAD 1/18 CHANCE TO FIND ATTACKING MAFIA VIA DETECTIVE AND YOU USING IT INSTANTLY?

Fucking why

Does detective even work N1.

[Bell]

I don’t wanna go to work.

[Bell]

Ask Kovu.
Prepping for work.

[Bell]

I really doubt Meuh is scum this game.

[Bell]

Same

Kovu seem town to you?

~Rhyme

Yeah, but I haven’t played with scum them.
They seem to be taking too many different angles to be scum and a lot of their actions don’t seem to be beneficial.

[Bell]

Sure sorry Kovu. I’m at work right now I can get to you in about 7 hours.

[Bell]

Yeah, there’s basically nothing there in Sircakez’s PT.

@Dunn: Kovu is in two hoods. Or 3 if you count their scum PT. :p

[Bell]

Fire, kovu, meuh, Bell, r&r

I noticed Gamma going into control mode. But I’m not sure what to make of it. I don’t agree with their interpretation of events.

[Bell]

Imo, nobody is disputing Val’s claim.
So you can probably put that one off the table.

[Bell]

I’m not *super* sure, but I don’t think gorilla is lying either.

[Bell]

Who do you want to vote?

[Bell]

Got it.

[Bell]

Already done.

[Bell]

My role doesn’t create neighborhoods.

I’m a friendly neighbor.
Not a friendly neighborizor.

[Bell]

Tbh. I also, agree with gorilla and would prefer cakez.
Though Fay’s response here only makes sense in light of meta, but from a practical perspective, getting disappointed that mena can’t read you is like, you know based on how you post it’s hard to get that and your claim is worse in light of val’s claim on top of you. Plus, just lack of results/optimal play.

[Bell]

I really doubt Mala was killed by town. Or at least I hope not.

[Bell]

Everytime I post in this stupid thread I start crying which is cool. Very cool! Goodbye.

What

[Bell]

Fwiw I'm not actually busy. I'm just apathetic, and pissed about both of those invictus shots, and in a position that very much does not suit my playstyle (conftown, high scum ratio, not much mechanical info), so I'm planning to defer to Mena for today.

I think maf has a role that messes with the invictus shot of who they kill.

I would consider this bastard, and while it is possible because the game has maximum one bastard role and it's presumably not a town role, it would also be unfair, unfun, and unbalanced. So I highly doubt it.

And Cakez in not clear, in fact I’m just about certain he’s maf.

It's kind of funny that you expect people to trust you after you just admitted you lied.

Enchant you kind of just sound like this game to me.

I thought of that, but there's a big huge difference, which is that in that game Enchant was always planned to go down and was just trying to make as much noise and stall it as much as possible, whereas in this game they are expressing outrage over stuff that's unrelated to them and they're not under any pressure.

I think it's towny, though that game does demonstrate that they are willing to fake outrage as scum.

I have a 1500+ post hood with fire

Fire is this true?

-Reason

There’s a lot of mechanical info.

[Bell]

How did we go from chill to tears being spilled this game.
Did I miss a post.

[Bell]

Without an actual cakez clear they’re unsalvagable to me this game.

[Bell]

I’m neither for or against the gamma is maf proclamation. My neutrality marks me as the firebrand of our age.

[Bell]

I don't think scum can manage to get up to a 1500 post private topic

*points at Tenet*
But yeah, I doubt fire has it in him. Or Kovu for that matter.

It’s 4 am. Back to bed.

[Bell]

UNVOTE:

[Bell]

Every single one of my scumreads is getting hard shielded by people and it is getting to be incredibly tiresome. I will try to find a working compromise but if that's not possible I'm going to mentally check out of this game.

I don’t think it’s Dunnstrall, but I won’t get in the way.