Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[Kovu]

Alrighty, let's do this!!! I have enough thoughts to make a post, and I know all yall just wanna read what I think of you, so let's go. Gonna start with the TLDR, reasons follow.

Town Lean: marcistar, Dunnstral, Gamma, datisi, fireisred, gorilla, Meuh
Null: VP, Tako
Sus: Fey
Scum Lean: LavarManos, Val, Lukewarm, Bell
No posts or actual content to read: Cakez, Enchant, Dwlee, Rhyme No Reason, LLD

Bell

– Ehhh 64 and 69 just felt really awkward, like why does anyone care if Rhyme without Reason is post restricted? Like, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but like, I’m town and genuinely don’t care, it’s just 2 posts, feels like an extreme over reaction, definitely not necessary, honestly probably scum indicative of Bell, like just trying to find something to talk about, and look like he’s doing something pro town. – scum lean

Fey

– Ok, so, gorilla’s entrance pinged me as the scummiest thing ever, and then you copied it, so like, yeah.. I’m not a huge fan of 51 like, Dunn brought up some very opportunistic looking votes that were sus, and you just kinda ignore them and are like “well Datisi is scum!!!” which feels like a weird thing to do, then in 55 you can’t possibly believe saying “"haha why are you guys all voting me." Is actually going to do anything with votes.. like, it’s RVS, who in their right mind actually takes the very first wagon seriously? They know they’re not getting voted out. Then there’s also something with 61, like “People might be voting you because they want to read you and the content you provide from that.” Who voting Datisi is doing so cause they want content? Like what even?? It’s a lot of just naked votes. No one engaging with him, so sure you wrote up this giant post, but like, some of the stuff you’re saying I read and am just like, are we playing the same game?? Like overall I do like the “effort” but am hesitant to read you one way or the other, cause a handful of your posts just feel off to me. - sus

fireisredsir

- lol I like the excitement of being first, looks like you were eagerly waiting for it to start, 23 I liked that question, I was not Tring gorilla there, so I feel like that question came from someone with a similar mindset. I like the questioning of the datisi votes, they just kinda appeared and no one was saying much about it, 58 you question VP about wasting posts? Isn’t it a little early for that? Like, I mean someone has to post something to get the game moving, its not like it’s 50 million in a row, so that’s kinda sus, I do like 75 though, like encouraging everyone to not go into setup spec wasting posts – slight town lean

Lady Lambdadelta

- nothing

takotsubo syndrome

– ok this one is funny, I initially Town leaned Tako, like “oh, game has a really slow pace, but tako still made an entrance!! That’s good!!” but then that was it, and they jumped on the datisi votes with just “did you roll scum again” like, that’s it? What specific posts made you feel that way? If you wanted the RVS votes to be taken seriously, why not make up a reason at the very least?? So cause of that you lost your town lean - null

Lukewarm

– I hated this entrance. Like, this feels like textbook maf… where you just feel like you HAVE to enter. Cause, entering going “I’m not gonna be around, give me stuff to come back to tomorrow” like, why even enter at all at that point, why NOT wait till tomorrow? And “give me an interesting thread” feels really awkward to me, like, who says that? Cause normally people start complaining when there’s too many posts. Yes, I’m scum leaning Luke off 1 post, the post is that bad.

Dunnstral

– I REALLY like 50, like, just flat out calling out the bad votes on Datisi, not something I really think scum would do, scum would probably encourage the votes to keep piling on, or say nothing in hopes they do, so like, that post alone has me going “town lean Dunnstral!!” – town lean

Rhyme and Reason (Menalque + Something_Smart)

– The Shakespeare is honestly annoying, you wrote a lot to say nothing? I debated writing Shakespeare back, but nah it’s just annoying, can’t wait till yall start posting actual stuff. – null with the no posters

Meuh

– I really liked this entrance tbh, hated half of it, but the “I want more on Tako” part is good, I definitely agree more attention needs to go that way, Tako seemed to like the Datisi votes, maybe Tako will like Tako votes. 79 is a lot of words.. I skimmed it and like the thought process, gonna town lean meuh

Val89

– Terrible entrance, I don’t see how voting Datisi with others is vibes… it’s almost like you were waiting for something like that, then your next post is speculating a mafia role, more often than not, I have found maf is more likely to want to discuss the setup than town here at the start, like if it wasn’t your only “content” I wouldn’t be super concerned, but like, you vote Datisi, and just have no comment there, but instead you wish to comment on a post restricted maf, which is clearly just Mena joking around.. – scum lean

marcistar

– in my experience marci is usually frozen scum upon entrance and just super awkward, but 19 feels not super awkward, but it’s like, ok you’re voting datisi, but you’re also interacting there, which I really like, I mean, in comparison to the others voting, marci looks the towniest, it just feels like good energy radiating from Marci and I like that! – town lean

Dwlee99

– entrance is just nothing, with the no posters

Gammagooey

– I liked this vote and like the timing of the vote, like as of that point Gorilla was my top SR, however, this huge post is just a bunch of “setup talk” but.. I really love how Gamma pointed out “If you're a bodyguard and you do a sweet diving save you DO get to shoot off your Invictus as you're going down and the person you guarded will not” like, that just feels like knowledge maf keeps to themselves, so for that reason I will lean Gamma town

VP Baltar

– how did you get nothing from Gamma’s post? I read it once and understood? Compared to scum!VP games I’ve seen, I think your entrance was ok, but then like 57 kinda just tosses out my town lean on you, like, you’ve interacted with both of Rhyme no Reason’s posts despite voicing annoyance. Like, if you don’t like it, just don’t interact? – just null

Datisi

– I don’t get the votes here, datisi actually seems fine so far, and how he’s handling the votes seems ok too like, I honestly think it’s a little unfair of the expectations people have on Datisi compared to a lot of the others so far, like, why is it perfectly acceptable to only talk in Shakespeare, yet, datisi just exists and votes are flying there and people are all “you need to interact!!!” but like, what if the vote on Datisi comes with 0 content?? How is he supposed to interact with “vote:datisi cuz vibes” like… For multiple reasons, I town lean him for now

LavarManos

- I really just get awkward scum vibes here, like, you seem scared to take a stance, and you vote someone for “doing too much” like, what? Do you want the thread to be dead?? Why are you squinting your eyes at 50? It was a really good post, you just agree with the terrible 2 votes? Like, seriously, what do you think of Val and Tako. I really want to know, cause if Meuh is scum for doing too much. What about those 2? – definite scum lean

Enchant

– no content

SirCakez

– This is reminding me of scum!cakez for… reasons, but for now no content

gorilla

– oh Gorilla.. I hated your first 2 posts, was like, there is NO WAY this is town, but I laughed really hard at 76, cause yeah, Luke really should be getting the votes, and exactly, not reading the rules really isn’t alignment indicative, LOL 78 I love, I explained earlier why when I commented about it with Lavar – Town lean

[Kovu]

Yall talk way too much lol and they're giant posts... I told myself I was tryharding, and only giving 125 solid posts, but like, I can't stand reading all of them, ok um

So first off marci.
Even making the read I was debating if I wanted to townlean that slot, then was like "ehh we'll go for it" cause like, it's not like the reads aren't gonna change, anyways, I hated that post marci had like right before I entered, and it was followed by bad ones, like, I don't get why 106 was made to be giant, just to have a bunch of tiny ones after, like, a bunch of posts just responding to 1 post after another, and it's not even like a reply.. it's just you commenting on 119, 120, 121, 124, like, all seperate posts, so then why is 106 a wall? if for any reason other than this is some maf plan... idk, I'm not loving it
then you went back to going at datisi, cause that's like everyone's "go to" thing this game? you said this

> i know im not really good at explaining things but it doesnt really look like youve wanted to help me at all..
umm why would datisi want to help you??

your posts have just gone downhill, and you seem super focused on interacting in the past, like, everything is just responding to someone else, and some of those responses aren't great, and I see like no original thoughts, I really do not tr marci this game, like at all.
~~
Why am I bringing this up? well, I said I was town leaning marci, and I KNOW someone else here was calling marci town, I saw that catching up. like, no... nothing from marci's play seems too towny, and honestly, I'm thinking the largest red flag is like, the 1 wall of responding to posts... followed by a bunch of individual posts, like, that's maf realizing it'll take a while to hit 125 that way, and literally just going "I need more posts cause more posts = townier"

[Kovu]

A good part of me wants to call Luke town for not knowing who I am tbh, cause I know someone in maf chat has said who I am, it's not hard to figure out, but then I think about it, and Luke says he looked at my "1 game, and I didn't out reads there" ok sure, but I definitely outed myself that game, so like, you didn't see that happen? but you read it? interesting... idk, it's not a solid read I'd die on, but found it worth mentioning.


I'm locktowning gorilla, like, if gorilla is maf, rip us. cause I think gorilla is extremely towny, and I'm actually kinda amazed cause after the first 2 posts I was like "no. gorilla is maf, this is so bad" but literally everything else has been amazing.


I'm currently confused by Val. Why are you writing a giant wallpost, as if you're concerned about postcap now.. when your entrance of "vibes and a vote" was supposedly for this huge reason? like, if you're so concerned about posts why not add that explanation to the post of nothing? this is a lot like marci where the actions aren't adding up, cause town concerned about posts doesn't have basically a naked vote, and a comment about the setup, FOLLOWED by giant walls, 131 just.. does not fit with the rest of that ISO
like, Val you can't be serious asking
> What exactly is it you mean by your eyes glazing over, with respect to both myself and lavarmanos?

it's just 4 giant paragraphs.. there's no TLDR or anything, and yeah, I definitely could only skim them the first time I looked

[Kovu]

@Kovu - at the time I voted gorilla I had no read on them whatsoever fyi. Their posts this page especially are p. good so far tho. Also think that the amount of effort you seem to be putting into analyzing the first 3 pages of the game is prooobably overkill but that's mostly just my personal thoughts of what actually matters/what's actually alignment relevant being usually not distinguishable from just people being themselves this early on; as long as you're not committed to those being Important Reads 4 Life tho you do you though, it'll at least be useful for people reading you

Yeah, I mean, looking at it I kinda fiured there was no strong reason for the gorilla vote, but still, you picked someone who showed up, and put an RVS vote in a ood way to go, like, who actually thinks we get anything by pressuring Datisi in RVS? I think that entire wagon was dumb, and people lost our good opportunity to actually get something from the first wagon.

Overkill? so you're thinking I'm maf? trying too hard? well, I know I can easily hit 125 posts as soon as the game starts. So I just collected my thoughts and waited till most people said something, like, sure I had soe reads as stronger than others, but when you have reads on a good 9 or 10 people, it only makes sense to comment on the rest? it's not like people's ISOs were huge, and yeah I comment on entrances, always have always will. so overkill? lol no. I know you weren't the only one who hated me "trying too hard" but hey, I'm here to play, this is the me yall get.



OH!! one more thing I noticed, that isn't related to what I'm quoting. The thread froze when I dropped a readslist. No comments. No talking.. Everyone just got quiet. that was sus, idk what it means, but I was fullying hoping to have someone to talk to. no.. you all got quiet and that was that, like what, I asked almost all yall a question, easy to keep a conversation going, but yeah that was sad

[Kovu]

Why are you squinting your eyes at 50? It was a really good post, you just agree with the terrible 2 votes? Like, seriously, what do you think of Val and Tako.

Meh, I don't agree that it was a good post. I don't see why early bandwagon votes are that bad, but I do think it still is generally thought of as "scummy". So I thought Dunnstral was taking advantage of that to wk Datisi.
For Val, nulltown maybe? Tako genuinely could be scum though. I can agree that the content is not great there.

And my friend. Who I SR the most, how could I forget you. you have not improved like at all, and I really wish more people would've put pressure here, but whatever. So first:

VOTE: Lavar

Woah a vote! I know!!

HOW WAS VAL NULL TOWN FOR "VIBES" AND "ROLE STUFF" like, the only thing I can really think is you're maf here who just knows Val is town, and so that makes it a lot harder for you to see how anyone could see Val as scummy, like, a good answer to that was "I want more content from them" not "I can agree the content is not great" like, the content you're commenting on is essentially nothing, plenty of recent posts to comment on, so I do look forward to your thoughts when you're back


> I don't see why early bandwagon votes are that bad
You don't see why bad votes that even now both claimed as legit votes, is a bad thing? like, I always assume people have a reason for their vote, even RVS, there's a reason behind why people pick who they pick so Dunn called them out, now both are like "that was a legit vote!!!" but notice how no one assumed either had reasoning for their votes? yeah, cause they were bad votes. but you thought nothing there..

Since you like direct questions, when you're back I have stuff I'd love from you, in order of importance, so like if you're only answering 1 or 2, answer the top ones plz.
1) What are your current reads looking like? - Doesn't have to be a reads list, just wanna know who you're TRing/SRing
2) What was wrong with Meuh "doing too much" ??
3) kinda in response to 91, at no point did I say you had to view 50 as a good post, I just wanted to know why you said you were squinting your eyes at it?? like if the answer was just "dunn was taking advantage" like, I'm confused, I need help understanding please

[Kovu]

So I had a thought, cause fire has been standing out to me, like, when I'm sitting here and thinking about my reads on people, fire, I just go "hasn't fire been talking about postcap a lot??" and I had some suspicions..


If you wanna play a game, just guess how many of fire's 16 posts are discussing the postcap, answer is in spoilers

Spoiler: Fire discussing the postcap

6/16 are discussing post cap....

i got excited and forgot about the postcap

VOTE: VP Baltar

dw everyone i have a 100% read accuracy rate on this guy, and i can guarantee he is scum this game

vp it feels like you're using a lot of your limited posts on things that are unrelated to alignment or moving the game forward

Also, I think my questioning of datisi was actually fruitful, and understanding RR's post restriction is kind of important.

its literally in the setup post as an example that there won't be an Iambic-Pentameter Post Restricted role. that's clearly why he's doing it lol. sorry to ruin the joke but stop wasting posts speculating on this

my impression of when ur town is that ur kinda good at finding stuff out, but you don't have enough confidence in yourself and your reads, so i think ur mafia gameplay would be kinda similar? i dont think ive ever seen u as mafia before but i think its very possible u would avoid responding to votes because you don't want to make it a "big deal" and the focus of the game, i think as scum u dont want the spotlight even close to u..? i imagine you very timid as scum >.<

SO
i think ignoring the votes on u is scummy :>

i don't really think this is an accurate assessment of datisi as scum at all. have you read datisi scum games at all, and if not what made you come to this conclusion?

i don't really think this is an accurate assessment of datisi as scum at all. have you read datisi scum games at all, and if not what made you come to this conclusion?

i havent seen datisi as scum at all and im not gonna meta read

i came to the conclusion because thats just how i think hes like, he gives very much vibes like hes doubtful in his abilities all the time to do stuff, am i wrong? i thought i remembered a game where he kept doubting his reads and going back and forth on them, but am i remembeing the wrong person?

mmmm maybe?? i just thought it was a kind of weird thing to jump on him for when i don't think thats my experience. i think he can be somewhat aggressive and annoyed in his responses to pushes on him actually as both alignments, but if anything moreso as scum. he does express doubt a lot but i don't think its timid its more like... fear of making big decisions lol. and as scum he might play that up a bit sometimes.

and like ok fine you don't have the same meta read as i do thats not scummy, but... i also don't quite get it cause like... you're saying that you think he lacks confidence as town and that you think his mafia game is similar... so why is him not responding to votes more likely to come from scum than town? like whats the difference there that you expect to see?

it sounds like you're saying "you're like this as town" -> "i expect you to be like this as mafia too" -> ??? -> "so the way you acted makes you scum"

and i don't get what the missing step there is

Why are you being the post police though? Do you really think 125 isn't enough for a single day?

i mean

1) no not really, maybe im projecting my own thoughts onto others here but like im concerned about keeping my posts more condensed cause ik i could easily go over 125 in d1 of a large. i might be safer than usual since im vla this weekend but still

2) its more of a point specific to you actually, cause like last time i played with you in lake melancholy (town) you came in aggressive and doing reaction tests and forcing the game to move forward whereas in ktane (scum) you were just kinda chilling and asking mech questions and not really pushing anything forward. and this felt way more like the latter to me, and it seemed especially weird to me that you would be okay with using limited posts on stuff like asking gamma when his last game was (you can easily check), the iambic pentameter stuff, etc... it just feels weird?? like im not sure why you think those things are important. ig if you're not worried about the post count then its less of an issue but idk i think you'd hit 125 in d1 of a large easily

ok i checked and in the large normal 238 we both had around 170 d1

which is actually not as bad as i thought cause ik i had a lot of one liner posts and stuff

so maybe it's less of an issue than i thought actually. the point about what you're choosing to do with your posts still stands tho

Fire feels only slightly different. But it’s kind of like a flavor more than a substance change.

im trying to be more srs mode due to the postcap!! less fluff!

i think you kind of feel different as well, altho it's hard to say this early. do you think there could be a reason for that?

So like, if anyone was truly concerned, WHY would you waste so many going "OMG postcap!!" that just feels really odd to me. Like, yeah I'm concerned myself, but like, at the end of the day if I hit it I hit it, and I'd rather not put all my thoughts into 1 unreadable block, but like, obviously I'm still maximizing posts but I'm not wasting posts to yell at people about it?? and shut down conversation..


(even though to shut down conversation all I have to do is post apparently, like yes.. Kovu was destined to do bad thing, but Kovu wanted to be good, no need to fear me...)

[Kovu]

...followed by 4 giant posts, some of which are critizing others for giant posts.

Is this another one of those internal contradictions I kept getting told in other games I'm supposed to find townie, but I still can't bring myself to do it?

I mean, I like to think mine are easy to read, and I try to make them clearly marked with who they're directed at, so I don't see the issue? You don't have to TR me No, like, do what you want

You say this like there is something obvious those of us on the Datisi wagon are missing. For the benefit of those of us who aren't as intimately familiar with Datisi as you are, why do you say pressure there was pointless?

I mean, what kind of reaction do you expect Datisi to give? Cause I know I don't expect Datisi to really react to a RVS wagon where half the votes are just naked and saying nothing

Kovu has a tendency to be self-contradictory and erratic a lot in play. It can be a lot to try to follow sometimes. Give them a few days to see what they do/vote/etc and judge from there.

Oh I know who this is... lmao ok, just cause Andante plays that way doesn't mean that's how Kovu plays... and honestly, I don't appreciate these negative posts towards me, like, both times you've addressed me they've been negative, I'm not sure what exactly I did to anger you, but can't we just leave the past in the past?? I was real excited for this game

[Kovu]

Dunn why are you so worried about me and who I am? like, how does the exact moment people learn who I am, make anyone maf? like why are you more focused on that instead of finding maf?

[Kovu]

However, Kovu says they think they know Fey's identity in post 172, but they already thought that somebody in maf chat revealed their identity in post 164.

well you seemed to imply some exact moment was important

[Kovu]

A good part of me wants to call Luke town for not knowing who I am tbh, cause I know someone in maf chat has said who I am, it's not hard to figure out, but then I think about it, and Luke says he looked at my "1 game, and I didn't out reads there" ok sure, but I definitely outed myself that game, so like, you didn't see that happen? but you read it? interesting... idk, it's not a solid read I'd die on, but found it worth mentioning.

Why did you say this?

cause I was thinking Luke town, so I wanted to share? At least I'm outing my thoughts, like where's your reads?

[Kovu]

I mean, why do you think the mafia team is discussing your identity? How did you get to that?

well I have reasons, and it’s also like, what maf team doesn’t share info like that, that they know? but it’s mostly reasons I can’t say, so like, yeah. what are your reads looking like?

[Kovu]

honestly, this isn't going to work with everyone V/LA and those that are here just kinda... *there*

It's probably +town that Tako was all "don't waste a cop check on Kovu" but other than that, there's nothing from any of these other voices, and like everyone is V/LA soooo yeah is fun

[Kovu]

Sorry I have not been here. Been running a little thin.

Main take away from the last couple pages is that I'm pretty sure dunn is always town here. I don't think scum dunn ever makes that argument about kovu (regardless of kovus alignment)

so you're town locking dunn for the exact reasons I no longer TR him? nothing about that was related to the game at all, and where is game related content from dunn? I'm not seeing any. Feels like a really odd reason to town lock him

[Kovu]

honestly I'd love to hear more on the Bell TRs, cause this isn't exactly mirroring the bell!town I'm familiar with, this bell isn't doing too much, but it's also like half this freaking table is doing nothing, soooo idk, someone called enchant town right? I'm also really curious on that.... cause enchant is one that still has 0 content

[Kovu]

For Enchant tho, I feel like he would be doing more as scum.

ah yeah, the person I'm voting was the one to call enchant town...

[Kovu]

In what world does enchant give MORE as scum? we barely even get anything from town!enchant as it is, like, the fact this game is
- no one doing anything
- making bad reads like this


I am genuinely just annoyed tbh, like can people DO SOMETHING??? like literally, half the table is doing nothing, has done nothing, I don't care that half yall are V/LA, you gave nothing when you were here, so am I just supposed to sit here for 3 more days just waiting for you to show up and say something? this is seriously annoying

[Kovu]

we've been here 3 IRL days... and 8 of yall don't even have 10 posts, like, it's not that hard to ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME YOU SIGNED UP FOR...
Probably time to step away for now, but seriously, EIGHT of you can't even post 10 times???? and 1 of the 8 is literally a hydra that seems to care more about their gimmick than playing the game

[Kovu]

- making bad reads like this

How many scum you killed today?

Well I'm voting 1, and Invictus killing another, which is more than you've done soooo

[Kovu]

hey Enchant, who is town?

[Kovu]

To be fair, meta is a very good way to read me. Most of the time.

I hate when people bring up self meta... literally the meta I have for you right now says you're scum, you want me to just sheep that?? like if YOU are bringing up your own meta, it means you're aware of it, and normally people only mention it if they think they're mirring their town meta, but like, here it really feels like this is textbook scum!bell to me, and you going "BELIEVE THE META ON MEE" isn't helping

[Kovu]

Yes, please sheep your meta unto scum me.

what are your thoughts on Lava calling Enchant town cause "scum enchant would do more"

[Kovu]

Yes, please sheep your meta unto scum me.

what are your thoughts on Lava calling Enchant town cause "scum enchant would do more"

I've never seen Enchant do a goddamn thing as either alignment.

same, so like did that feel like TMI from lava to you or like what? cause that's the 2nd time I believe Lava has had tmi on people...

[Kovu]

I don't really know how much Lavar has played with enchant, but the general mindset progression of enchant from game to game should be.

"what the fuck are they doing?" -> "There must be a pattern!" -> "Heres a meta tell I thought up of how to differentiate between them, Oh, I was wrong." -> "Maybe this meta tell will work? Opps still wrong" -> "dayvig enchant" *coin flips*

so what I'm getting from this, it doesn't bother you at all that lava said "enchant would do more as scum" implying a TR... at this phase where enchant has barely posted

[Kovu]

honestly I'd love to hear more on the Bell TRs, cause this isn't exactly mirroring the bell!town I'm familiar with, this bell isn't doing too much, but it's also like half this freaking table is doing nothing, soooo idk, someone called enchant town right? I'm also really curious on that.... cause enchant is one that still has 0 content

In what world does enchant give MORE as scum? we barely even get anything from town!enchant as it is, like, the fact this game is
- no one doing anything
- making bad reads like this


I am genuinely just annoyed tbh, like can people DO SOMETHING??? like literally, half the table is doing nothing, has done nothing, I don't care that half yall are V/LA, you gave nothing when you were here, so am I just supposed to sit here for 3 more days just waiting for you to show up and say something? this is seriously annoying

Why are you complaining so much this game? There was just a string of posts from gamma/bell/fire/meuh that you could have said something about. This feels performative.

In a scum!Bell world, I'd look at Kovu and Enchant next. Both are making nonsense posts that aren't pushing anyone.

So I'm scum here because I'm mad 8 people aren't doing shit? are you freakin seruious right now...
I'm not doing this

VOTE: VP

[Kovu]

cause like, VP, what is even your objective here with saying that to me? I'm mad, I'm letting yall know why, and people are not talking, I'm discussing reads with people, and I just revived the thread, yet you're trying to shut my down and go back to "oh in a table of 20 it's prfectly ok for 8 to do absolutely nothing"

[Kovu]

and all these V/LA peopl, they freaking say it in thread, but don't mark it, so if I'm looking at that activity overview, I literally only see Cakez as V/LA, Val hasn't posted in 2 days.. VP you seriuously wanna go "why are you mad?" well let me tell you cause I'm town, and evidently you're not, as TOWN it's so freaking frustrating to have 8 people with NOTHING. we're literally 3 IRL days in..

[Kovu]

Why are you complaining so much this game?

so my bad... I should just sit back and not care about the game right? you have 0 problem with people doing that... like, SO WHAT PEOPLE ARE VLA?? they could've given literally ANYTHING before going V/LA but there's 8 entire slots of nothing...

we have Lavar calling Enchant town for doing nothing, and none of yall said ANYTHING about it, so what's the freaking point of me trying my best here

[Kovu]

I'd look at Kovu and Enchant next. Both are making nonsense posts that aren't pushing anyone.

wanna ellaborate more on how my posts are shit? I'm all ears.

[Kovu]

It's OOG stuff having to do with being self-conscious about Prism and wanting to perform but it's awkward to talk about.
It's probably just life stuff. Though yes. Sircakez scum sucks uniquely to sircakez town.

what are you talking about??

[Kovu]

It's OOG stuff having to do with being self-conscious about Prism and wanting to perform but it's awkward to talk about.
It's probably just life stuff. Though yes. Sircakez scum sucks uniquely to sircakez town.

what are you talking about??

jk I was hella confused for a second.

Hey VP, you just got awefully quiet... feels like a scum claim

[Kovu]

Town andante wants blood. Kovu is a snoozefest of petty complaints.

what even... so I'm supposed to sit here screaming for blood all game? oh my bad, it's a little hard to do with 8 slots doing absolutely nothing to advance the game. Yeah I posted a readslist, so what? it was largely just asking a bunch of questions to people? you ever think I'm tired of playing like I'm "out for blood" Fey literally just spent a game yelling at me for "throwing" while I was town I figured, new account, we're keeping the tryhard mode, less "shenanigans" more organized thoughts... and you're shitting on me for what?? trying? giving reads? wow.. so freaking scummy

[Kovu]

...and how do those reads relate to the prospect of Bell flipping scum?

Both are being independently useless and bemoaning in their own way how people posting in the game right now, which is primarily coalescing around a Bell yeet today, fmpov.

It reads to me like an effort to shift the status quo without drawing too much attention.

I don't want a bell yeet today so idk what you're even going at, Lava was my scummiest read but you just decided you wanted to claim scum, so we can get you first sure

[Kovu]

I hate this game so much right now, know what, I'm taking a page out of enchant's book, and I shall do absolutely nothing, and guess what, you can have fun with Val who hasn't posted in 2 days and all the others not even attempting to play the game, I'm so freaking over this

[Kovu]

VOTE: Lava

As stupid as this all is, VP might be town, he picks a lot more fights as town than maf... I'm not dealing with this right now, Lava keeps scum claiming, vote can stay there, and since we don't have to talk tomorrow, see yall in 3 days cause I'm clearly not wanted here

[Kovu]

Uh, if you're starting with "This won't be real content" just wait. If you're on V/LA.
Just hang out in V/LA land. That's okay.

exactly my same thought. especially when you're a slot that has no content, and what is there isn't great.. then you're able to come in and drop a bunch of thoughts when prodded? it's like, how can you give this much effort now.. but nothing earlier??

[Kovu]

LLD is town LOL

Also, what in the actual...

[Kovu]

Uh, if you're starting with "This won't be real content" just wait. If you're on V/LA.
Just hang out in V/LA land. That's okay.

dw bell, his scumbuddies prob just warned him his name was brought up a few times

weird thing to say

[Kovu]

Can I bring up Val..

Still skimming, but is anyone else getting the feeling from the last couple of pages that Kovu really wants someone to scumread me for a lack of activity, and is getting frustrated noone is biting?

I don't even see the motivation for Val to point this out, perhaps because Kovu called them out specifically by name and it bothered them, but instead of directly asking Kovu about that, they asked the crowd instead. It's not strange per se, but it's not direct either which could be either preference in being indirect or because they want something else out of their post and others responing to it.
The way they phrased it seemed to be that Kovu was specifically trying to kill them, but there's little reason from that perspective to suspect one player is having it out for one specific player when there are plenty of other players that you could go for. There's even more interest toward other inactives from other player statements. It could be a mistake of ego, but I fin it either poorly worded or poorly thought out.

I also see Kovu revote LavarManos, and my recollection was that the genesis of that read was that Lavar had

dared

to not call me scummy, and the fact they even considered me 'nulltown' must be evidence of TMI, and out of all the reads and justifications given, that was the one that warranted Kovu's vote. The very fact that comprehensive list of leads came shortly after I decided I didn't think a comprehensive reads list was a good idea in this setup felt like a pointed rejection of that premise, same with Datisi, whom, spoiler alert, I don't exactly trust right now.

So yeah, maybe it is ego, but it does appear Kovu has somewhat of a preoccupation with my slot.

Like, all I did was go "its been over 2 days since val posted" cause it's not hard to pull up activity overview, which you look at when a game feels like it's just 4 voices and you know 20 signed up... and you go "oh... more than 48 hours there..." but that's about all I said... I called out a few others by name too, feels like Val showed up just to tunnel me... is this cause I didn't like the initial wall post? like, Val, read wise, all I'm getting from you is that you hate me, do you have any reads on literally anyone else?

[Kovu]

People that know LLD tend to treat them differently. Players rarely treat her as just another mafia player. Well, most people treat people like not just another mafia player when they get to know them a few times, but it deviates a lot differently and in weird directions.

honestly, I think I've only played with LLD once and she was super towny, and yeah. Now there's just nothing

[Kovu]

Well, that was a solid post from Sircakez in a sort of, 'Okay those are some reads and some light content I guess.' way. My vindictus shot is still there. though I doubt I'll ever get to use it.

that was legit just "I'll skim the next 5 pages quote a few things react with a sentence and call it a day. To my knowledge, last time Cakez was just behind all game he was maf, but I mean, I do like that he's giving thoughts now I guess, but still, it's like, why can you do it upon being prodded, but you can't do it at literally any other time... Val showed up as I was talking about Val, Enchant showed up as I was talking about Enchant


on a different note, I do think I tr enchant, there were a handful of things I liked here on the last few pages, same with bell

[Kovu]

I know you're being sarcastic here

Why wouldn't I be dead serious? I do not care that it's a holiday TOMORROW game started 3 days ago, and I saw 8 people had less than 10 posts, I feel like 10 posts over 3 days is a very reasonable expectation, like, if people aren't going to do anything, why not give stuff to look towny, so those of us who actually want to play the game, have something to read. wild concept I know

[Kovu]

Nightvig:Meuh

[Kovu]

what if, knowing that I redirect your dayvig... every game so that one time I'm redirector, and you're day vig.... my shot!!

[Kovu]

I don't think it's a good idea to share invictus targets tbh

[Kovu]

no, Bell do not hardclaim, idk why gorilla is even calling out a PR softclaim, like, we're not limming bell, why is that even a thing? like, "I think this is a pr!!" how is that in town's best interest?

[Kovu]

I don't care it's a holiday weekend. it's 3 IRL days into a game... if people knew they'd be gone, they could've given something before... I don't understand the point you're trying to make VP

[Kovu]

@kovu - I'm making the point that you complaining about it doesn't change the fact people are gone

I beg to differ... I complained and both Val and Enchant showed up

[Kovu]

@kovu - I'm making the point that you complaining about it doesn't change the fact people are gone

I beg to differ... I complained and both Val and Enchant showed up

But i come because i wanted thou, what you think i am your fan or something? Well a bit, perhaps.

I do believe you're a fan of mine, yes, and the issue is that makes me TR you, so like, if you were maf.. I wouldn't know cause you've tricked me

[Kovu]

VOTE: marci

what's wrong with 1 vote? that feels like an over reaction...

[Kovu]

I mean tbh I probably want lvar yeeted the most right now, but yeah, I'm not opposed to any of the no content slots, like, odds say scum is VERY likely in those...
VOTE: lavar

I did like the pressure we put on marci though

[Kovu]

GOOOOD MORNING!!!!

Fey is ydra? I had someone else in mind tbh, unless I'm thinking of another alt, but damn.. ydra starting off like that?? like, what even??

uhh I think I've read everything, SS going "I'll ask questions and yall will ignore" like what? you haven't asked a single question this game or even done anything. Cakez has done more, and cakez has called LLD town for doing nothing...

I don't get the "more cakez votes" I mean, not at this moment, I know cakez does nothing as scum, but it's like he made a good attempt to give something while being on vacation.. I'll happily give him a d1 pass, now we have Dwlee with 4 posts TOTAL and nothing in over 2 days...sure I don't blame anyone for not posting yesterday, like, I didn't but seriously... you only have 4 posts... and last time I played with scum!dwlee they barely posted/ "were busy IRL" or whatever.. like, this is mirroring what I know of scum!dwlee... I don't care they're moving.. 4 posts... and this is what? the 5th IRL day?

[Kovu]

VOTE: Bell

Moved in, saw wagons are shifting here. This + marci competing is good

"saw wagons going here, I'll place my vote on this wagon with momentum then leave"

like.. this ISO doesn't feel like natural towny stuff, it feels more like scum trying to appear towny, like with the 4 posts that are here

[Kovu]

I find it weird that Val didn't reelly respond to anything Lukewarm said about him
VOTE: Val

that's the only thing weird? not the fact Val literally only talked to/about me the entire first part of this game? People giving val the same answers I'd give, and val goig "no! I want to hear kovu!"

none of that was weird? just ignoring someone is??

[Kovu]

tbh I'm still ok yeeting Lavar today,

and as of right now, I would not be opposed to alternate wagons of LLD, Rhyme No Reason, Meuh, Val, Marci, Dwlee, Lavar

Like, those 6. I don't feel great about and/or they're not giving anything that says "I'm town and trying to be TRed or find scum"

I'm not saying all scum in them, I'm just saying, they all have different reasons that make me not opposed to yeeting them here

[Kovu]

Like, once there's actual stuff from everyone I'll be more worried about finding maf, but like, those 7 with nothing? I'm not even trying, there's literally no point

[Kovu]

I’m willing to sheep you on this and my vote fulfills essentially the same purpose on Enchant than on Tako. I wanna see where this goes and you’ve had good vibes as of late anyways

why sheep Lavar here? that's such an odd pick to follow of all people this game

I wanted to see where it went and he had good vibes as of that time anyways

okay my brain is hurting I don't want to post anymore

I want to kill one of these people (baltar, val, rhyme and reason, dwlee, tako/mala, marci)
these people are in my townbin (kovu, lavar, gamma, gorilla, luke, dunn)
everyone else whatever

Why not kill me?

VOTE: Rhyme and Reason

Cakez is still like a fine lim I guess, but not what I'd prefer really

Also deadline is closer than I thought, we have under 3 days till day ends

This post screams scum claim to me, that vote on RR with 0 explanation, 0 acknowledgement. 0 attempt to talk to RR, that vote is SO BAD

[Kovu]

It's how it goes in every game I play.
I go on V/LA; when I return
I get accused of lurking, and I ask
What people want to hear from me, and then...
nobody ever answers. Hence that line.

-Reason

Ok I mean, why would you expect anyone this game to be waiting for your imput on anything? like, this slot started the game by talking in Shakespeare and yall are keeping up this way of talking that's just extremely hard to read, and then even with the way you type, there's no content, nothing to interact with, if you give stuff to interact with I'll happily give questions, like, do we have to ask you "What are your reads looking like?" "Who do you think is maf?" for you to give reads? you can't just complain you get accused of lurking... like, if you literally give ANYTHING someone will interact with it...

but whatever, if you NEED questions to talk, here's 3 for now

What are your reads looking like?
Who's Scum/Who are you fine yeeting?
Who are you thinking is town?

[Kovu]

Cakez I need something on why you think Lava is town please, I'm really thinking maf there, so I need you to really sell it to me/convince me please

[Kovu]

Kovu is pretty liberal.

I would request soul for my vote.

what do you mean by this? you want me to vote you?

on another note, who do you think is a mafia here?

[Kovu]

Spoiler:

I’m willing to sheep you on this and my vote fulfills essentially the same purpose on Enchant than on Tako. I wanna see where this goes and you’ve had good vibes as of late anyways

why sheep Lavar here? that's such an odd pick to follow of all people this game

I wanted to see where it went and he had good vibes as of that time anyways

okay my brain is hurting I don't want to post anymore

I want to kill one of these people (baltar, val, rhyme and reason, dwlee, tako/mala, marci)
these people are in my townbin (kovu, lavar, gamma, gorilla, luke, dunn)
everyone else whatever

Why not kill me?

VOTE: Rhyme and Reason

Cakez is still like a fine lim I guess, but not what I'd prefer really

Also deadline is closer than I thought, we have under 3 days till day ends

This post screams scum claim to me, that vote on RR with 0 explanation, 0 acknowledgement. 0 attempt to talk to RR, that vote is SO BAD

RR's in this weird spot where basically everyone has neutral to meh vibes about them, but nothing's being done. No votes, little pressure, barely any analysis...
(I'm not pretending this doesn't apply to me, but I want to do something about it)
I think the posting quirk makes engaging with them harder, but regardless it gives me the impression they're more likely scum.
Feels like scum would've taken advantage of it by then if RR was town.
This could be a bad way to look at the game but RR's general position in the game is a strange one and I'm interested in pushing there.

Don't like the vote on Bell, either.

@RR

why is your vote still there?

ok now you explain.. why did you vote earlier though? like, here I put all the reasoning on the table to SS, why are you basing RR scum off how people are treating the slot? like, "if they were town scum would take advantage" do you really believe that? no one has pushed a genuine wagon all game, there's been no conviction behind anything anyone has done, like, "scum would've pushed the hydra!!!" makes no sense, hydra of 2 people who can be strong players.. yeah no, scum is gonna pick like bell or anyone else instead for that "easy lim"

I don't really like your response to this either.

> I think the posting quirk makes engaging with them harder, but regardless it gives me the impression they're more likely scum.
How does gimmick automatically make someone scum? At least SS speaks english in the hydra? like you CAN understand it.. you say this too, but you have yet to try interacting at all with RR. Anytime I say something to them, they respond.

> Feels like scum would've taken advantage of it by then if RR was town.
I mean, isn't that what you're doing now? multiple people have said we're not opposed to yeeting RR.. among other names, but you picked RR to push, even though you haven't given thoughts on the slot yourself, nor have you TRIED to interact with them

> This could be a bad way to look at the game but RR's general position in the game is a strange one and I'm interested in pushing there.
Strange position? So I get yelled at that it was memorial day, and that I should be mindful people were busy ALL weekend... what if SS and Mena were just busy all weekend? Like, Why are you pushing there without trying to even talk to them? Waiting till asked to go "here's my reasoning to SR them!!"



VOTE: Meuh


this just screams scum. I'd love a wagon on Meuh, I'm not arguing RR is town, I believe they'll start giving actual stuff soon, I asked questions, I know they'll answer them, I'm giving RR time, but until then, I don't believe Meuh's push is coming from a town mindset here

[Kovu]

bruhh I write walls.. sorry I'm not responding to that wall if there's something I need to respond to... uhhh might wanna point it out, but seems fine enough for now.

BACK TO LAVA!!!! This slot is just not great, I'm not a fan
VOTE: Lavar

[Kovu]

Just seems really opportunistic to push me here

meh left us with 4 not so great posts, then didn't talk for over 2 days, I see nothing wrong with votes on you, if you don't want votes/anyone to push you, you have to give more.

[Kovu]

My list of people that I do not want to be the day 1 elimination has grown to:

1. Bell
3. fireisredsir
4. Lady Lambdadelta
6. Lukewarm
7. Dunnstral
9. Meuh
11. marcistar
14. Kovu
15. VP Baltar
18. Enchant
20. gorilla

Why is LLD on this list and not RR?

~
and on another note I think I tr RR, like, that's the 1 slot to not call me town lol and like all these other people automatically calling me town know I'm capable of posting all of what I've posted thus far as scum, like, I don't think I'm an easy person to just call town, but like, when VP called me scum it was "under the condition bell flips scum then we look at kovu" like, that is probably the worst way to make reads, like, as I've learned, we don't plan on chaining lims or whatever, so instead of how VP called me scum, we have RR just flat out "kovu might be" and I like that

~

lmao Fey "this is a game I'm in" yeah... and this really feels like not town!you

[Kovu]

I have a vague feeling there’s a townblock forming if not today than after a flip tomorrow it’ll be easier to define which is heartening. Go team.

Feel a little less good about... hm, unsure if it’s just lowposters just being mafia this game or like people not remembering lowposters and wanting to keep alive the majority of people they have a better grasp on or... something.

Brain-jello.

yeah.. this is what I was yelling about then told to shut up and how "it's perfectly fine for 9 people to not even have 10 posts" 3 IRL days into this, so I gave up tryharding, I'm yeeting someone who has given nothing/not great takes today, and I'm calling it a day

[Kovu]

and this is the 2nd time you're just "I'm super different on my alts" like, ok?? I wouldn't have a problem if there was like actual reads/effort from you, cause legit all I can remember from you is you yelling at me/saying you're not talking to me, that's legit all I can recall from you. LLD has nothing (and a TR apparently) uhhh yeah I'm not going down the list

[Kovu]

Yeah I just saw 30 posts, meh, I'll fix reads after a meeting, I legit just recall the same few names over and over, like, at this moment I wanna yeet Luke for calling LLD towny/ not wanting to yeet (same thing) like, THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN TR THE NOTHING FROM LLD.... This is no where near town LLD I remember/have heard about

[Kovu]

nevermind I wanna yeet meuh/marci

[Kovu]

5 slots have less posts than Prism? lmao this game I swear... like, if people aren't gonna take this seriously....

[Kovu]

718 is just meh

Like it feels very easy to fake

you sure about that? like, why does scum!RR not just call me town? like I think everyone else has? obviously I want more, but I thought 718 was a good start, like, compare 718 to a cakez wall, I like 718 more. you sure you're not just tunneled on RR now?

[Kovu]

we have 2 days 6 hours to reach a decision on who to lim. and LLD has still decided to give us nothing.

VOTE: LLD

I really think this is a good option, definitely at least worth putting pressure here. like, ~ 50 hours REMAINING, and there is still nothing from LLD, she was sure to tell us she was back (to answer the prod...) but there's 0 content. if anyone can find a town!LLD game where she did nothing... lol I'm pretty certain that doesn't exist

[Kovu]

bruhh I write walls.. sorry I'm not responding to that wall if there's something I need to respond to... uhhh might wanna point it out, but seems fine enough for now.

BACK TO LAVA!!!! This slot is just not great, I'm not a fan
VOTE: Lavar

Is this response to my post? If so I’d say you should read it before proposing me as a lim
It’s a literal response to your case against me.
Also why do you keep both complaining about not enough content and also complaining whenever people make walls???
Like that was my highest energy post the entire game. For you to respond to it saying you’re not reading it and then complaining that people (including me) have not done enough is just irritating

cause it wasn't happening last night? like, we have ~ 5 people no efforting this game, I couldn't be bothered to try hard right now, whatever

[Kovu]

VOTE: Meuh

[Kovu]

VOTE: Lava

yeah lava is MAFIAAAAA

[Kovu]

also that is the 2nd time I have read “X would do more as scum” this game… that argument is garbage

[Kovu]

also that is the 2nd time I have read “X would do more as scum” this game… that argument is garbage

this was in regards to luke calling LLD town

[Kovu]

HOLD UP!!! LUKE IS BUSSING LAVAR. LETS GO. Like, LOOK AT THIS

For Enchant tho, I feel like he would be doing more as scum.

LLD is on this list because I would expect scum!LLD to be doing more here.

VOTE: Lava

The only 2 in this game to say "X would do more as scum" AND they're not interacting with each other, it sounds like they discussed reads to give in maf chat, like, I don't think I've ever seen the SAME bad reasoning used before in a game...

So Lava anbd Luke maf, then Enchant and LLD are gonna be town

[Kovu]

See my issue is, that argument "X would do more as scum" is just bad, but, the 2 people yall used it on are probably the only 2 in this table it makes 0 sense to use it on... LLD and Enchant do MORE as scum than town?? like... no

[Kovu]

Enchant does more as town. You got the argument backward, Kovu

I mean yall understand what I was trying to say, and you're about to hit postcap, and that was actually wasting a post...

Like LLD and Enchant do more as town, that I've seen, also I think Enchant is town here

[Kovu]

I think that it is a terrible thing to apply liberally to anyone.

BUT YOU SAID IT.... THAT IS MY POINT. IT IS A TERRIBLE ARGUMENT THAT BOTH YOU AND LAVAR USED

[Kovu]

Every time Kovu posts, I have to consciously make a effort remind myself that assuming that there is just no way on Gods green earth that town can pull this volume of garbage and flit so quickly between thoughts is exactly what got me into trouble in the last Prism game I played.

yeah want me to claim pr again here and get yeeted for it super fast day 1?

[Kovu]

UNVOTE:

1 sec, want to see something but i’m busy, there’s so many votes, i just don’t want the lim before I see something

[Kovu]

I'm baffled that nobody seems to think how fast the votes accumulated on me as suspicious. Additionally, there is no effort from anybody voting me to actually explain why I am scum. The confusing thing is that I think this wagon has been driven by town. I don't really get it lol

I mean, if you're scum, it's fast cause your partners will happily bus, I've been voting you like all day, so there should be no surprised there, "the wagon was fast" isn't really shocking.. there were other "fast" wagons too, and you had no issues hopping on them..

[Kovu]

Disagree, that seems well within her scum wheelhouse.

you seem convinced I'm not town tbh, might actually mean you're scum.. usually you just like ignore me in games, yet here's the 2nd time you're like "Kovu can definitely be scum" like, what?

VOTE: RR

[Kovu]

I do think flashwagons are more likely to come from town than coordinated scum efforts. It's a huge risk from a scum perspective to bunch up and try to tip the scales for a LHF misyeet D1.

yeah same, but it also like just depends, if it's scum that's definitely going down, maf wants to stay in front of that and claim town cred, so they'll be on as early as they can, not all maf but at least 1

[Kovu]

mmmk, and uhh yeah lava can go, I can't see myself TRing lava, I really can't get past "Enchant would do more as scum" like.. give a link to a game that gives you that thought, but, it feels so made up and bad... like, yeah..

VOTE: Lava

[Kovu]

I do think flashwagons are more likely to come from town than coordinated scum efforts. It's a huge risk from a scum perspective to bunch up and try to tip the scales for a LHF misyeet D1.

yeah same, but it also like just depends, if it's scum that's definitely going down, maf wants to stay in front of that and claim town cred, so they'll be on as early as they can, not all maf but at least 1

Yeah, agreed. If lavar is scum, someone in that pile of votes is probably bussing.

like, I was voting lava most of the day and no one showed any interest in joining me.... now.. "vote vote vote"

[Kovu]

Like, this is what gets me, the way the wagons moved...

Datisi(5) ~ marcistar (19), Val89 (32), Rhyme and Reason (39), Fey (49), SirCakez (196)
LavarManos(4)~ gorilla (92), Kovu (166), Meuh (173), fireisredsir (191)
marcistar(3)~ Lukewarm (94), VP Baltar (182), Dwlee99 (199)

That was the first, it turned into:

Bell(7)~ Lady Lambdadelta (175), Gammagooey (201), Datisi (239), VP Baltar (258), Fey (279), Dwlee99 (305), Rhyme and Reason (316)
LavarManos(3)~ gorilla (92), Kovu (166), fireisredsir (191)
Datisi(3)~ marcistar (19), Val89 (32), SirCakez (196)
takotsubo syndrome(2)~ LavarManos (290), Enchant (317)
marcistar(1)~ Lukewarm (94)
Enchant(1)~ Meuh (329)
SirCakez(1)~ Bell (301)

And then Lava wagon completely dissapears

marcistar(7)~ Gammagooey (497), gorilla (701), VP Baltar (702), Datisi (703), fireisredsir (713), SirCakez (717), LavarManos (775)
Datisi(2)~ marcistar (19), Val89 (32)
Bell(2)~ Lady Lambdadelta (175), Rhyme and Reason (316)
VP Baltar(2)~ Fey (560), Dwlee99 (692)
SirCakez(1)~ Bell (301)
Val89(1)~ Lukewarm (489)
Meuh(1)~ Kovu (627)
Lady Lambdadelta(1)~ Enchant (759)
Rhyme & Reason(1)~ Meuh (757)

and now, Lava is the leading wagon... like, votes on... to NOTHING... to leading wagon... very sus

[Kovu]

UNVOTE:
Lava is town

[Kovu]

VOTE: Val
This might be good tbh, cause I'm building up my reads on logic here (wow shocking I know) and just a lot of the ends lie with Val and interactions related to that slot

[Kovu]

I am pretty certain RR is not town.
VOTE: RR

Also, I've decided Lava most likely flips town, cause he has some of the better posts of people this game.

[Kovu]

I'm really satisfied with a lavar flip. The dip after pressure is characteristic of caught scum

Lava has had more presence than you though.

Like, I seriously still want RR here, and if we can't do them, I want to flip Dwlee, this comment just does not sit right with me, I don't see it coming from town

[Kovu]

VOTE: Dwlee
Like, there's not 1 thing here that I look at and go "I think Dwlee is town" none of it is towny, then talking about how "lava dipped after pressure" uhh lava literally returned and answered questions, and explained why he left... and like lava has 34 posts, most are actual content and talking, I believe I've seen lava here daily.

Mala has 11 posts total
LLD has 11 posts total
Dwlee has 13 posts total


and Dwlee wants to talk about how Lava has no presence?? that is such a bad take, it literally can not be from town!dwlee, like every question I've asked lava, lava has answered

and if you wanna talk about dissapearing? where's Dunn? all I remember is post 50 with Dunn... 1000 posts later... That line from Dwlee literally just feels like something they'll point back to later and go "see I had a reason!!!"

[Kovu]

I agree with Gooey and Kovu that the activity of players sucks this game.
But they’re not increasing their activity. We just need to kill them one at a time until morale improves.

Gamma is literally one of the ones who has had like no activity... why are you giving credit to gamma and "I agree with gamma" right.. just like as LLD just pointed out, you NOW want to join the Lava wagon as the Dwlee wagon is gaining momentum, and lava is losing..

I REALLY liked that line from LLD, wow, sorry I was calling you "likely not town" earlier, cause I definitely TR you right now, one of the only people this game to like call something out as soon as it happens, everyone else is literally just waiting for someone else to say something then going "yeah I agree"


but yeah, Bell, I didn't like you going "I agree with Gooey and Kovu about the activity being bad" like, WTF?? I was gettin yelled at for complaining about it, Gamma is now up to a whole 23 posts... and you think Gamma is qualifies to speak on there being "no activity" ??? GAMMA HAS LESS THAN ENCHANT...

also that lava vote is so terrible right now... like, ahhh I told myself I'd stay away from eod, but ughh just had to share thoughts, looks like LLD is doing good with the lava vote issue though..

the 2 posts from Bell I just hate too much, and I had to say, I think LLD is amazing!!

[Kovu]

I still have no idea if this is an act you’re putting on.

seriously... why is that your first reaction to my post. whatever, have fun people.

[Kovu]

Um Lava, I have a serious question, how much experience do you have playing mafia?

[Kovu]

Lava what is your read on dwlee?

Their posts have declined in quality over time. I think Dwlee would be more apologetic as scum wrt activity and reading others based off of it. I'll keep my vote on Datisi for now.

@gorilla What was you point?
@Kovu I have played for two years on and off

ok and follow up to that question, are you and luke friends? have you played many games with luke? what is your relationship to luke?

[Kovu]

well, regardless of what this flips as, I thing the joint iso of luke and lava is interesting, lava like only shows up when luke is around and mostly just talks to luke, and so when I asked lava about their relationship, Luke freaked out, and that's where luke was suddenly "yeah lava maf!!"

after earlier going "I sr val more than lava" like, you don't just casually change your mind on your lava read like that.. "oh I just noticed!!!" more like, I was hinting that I was on to yalls suspicious interactions... then you're all "I need the towncred here!!" or whatever.

I'm pretty sure this flips red, and when that happens, everyone else needs to go look at the joint iso of luke and lava, if for whatever reason this is town, I stick to my read of Dwlee and RR being partnered

my bad

[Kovu]

the funny part of that is I was only commenting cause I wanted excatly 100 posts so it's easier to do the math later... and I comment from the wrong account... oops.. but adding those 2 to kovu, we're at 100 now!!

[Kovu]

VOTE: FireIsRed

yeah so fire is maf, maf that as I said before was
1) way too interested in pointing out "people wasting posts"
wanna know what happened here? I'm in a hood with Fire, I said "maf is probably gonna be wasting posts early cause post cap is pretty easy to hit, so just keep an eye on it" then fire spent like 10 posts just "YOU'RE WASTING POSTS" like... that's not "keeping an eye on it"

I have about 50 million other reasons too cause that hood is like textbook scum!fire... basically was just there, I talk a LOT, fire would answer me, but never took a whole lot of initiative to ask me stuff, I'd be asking a lot, that whole lava thing? he was basically like "I'm never voting outside no matter what", I could see lava flipping town and scum, I believe I said why I thought lava could be town, fire didn't care, ummm even after lava flipped VT fire never adressed anything really, just yeah.. I talked to him a LOT about RR, who I still SR btw, I think fire and RR are partners. but I asked fire to give me every reason in the books for why RR was town, whether he believed it or not. He made a "case" and it was genuinely terrible, and basically ended with "I genuinely believe RR could be town" fire used different words, but that was the gist of that, and from that moment, I was like, hold on... and I invictus shot fire last night cause I was like, there is NO WAY he claims this hood if I die, and like, his reads are polar opposite to mine, like he just flipped lava town, you would THINK he'd go "hold on I might be wrong" I honestly don't think once that he genuinely questioned if I was maf, and right now he got very hostile it felt when I was like "yeah I tr them" idk this hood. I can't anymore. I'm VERY certain fire flips red

[Kovu]

also I'm very certain in my TRs.

meuh/marci blend together so I'm not really reading either, they're both in my low peo just cause yeah, I'll deal with reading those 2 later,

VERY BOTTOM poe is : fire. mala, dunn, RR

People I can't TR are: Bell, fire, mala, Dunn, RR, Dwlee, Gamma


and if all poe are gon, and there's 1 scum left at the end, I would reevaluate gorilla

[Kovu]

people I didn't mention, I TR, with varying levels of certainty, but I feel very good about these reads. and I have to get the fire thing off my chest. I'm VERY certain fire is not town. that hood... I know I just talk a lot in general, but fire is mafia

[Kovu]

yall wanna know what seriously angers me? when the ONLY takeaway from my posts is "well I'm not scum with X" ARE YOU SERIOUS RIGHT NOW... there's like 9 people I have it narrowed down to genius.. wow you don't like that I have you in my lowest poe?? oh yeah it's cause you've posted 0 game related content, and are making no effort to play the game, and you just wanna go "I'm not scum with X" like.. ok so what?? you being town does not change the fact the rest are STILL scummy

[Kovu]

is fireisredsir historically bad with keeping up with hoods as scum?

fire kept up, like it wasn't anything super bad, its mostly just been encouraging my bad takes and shutting down my good ones, the most recent is fire like telling me it's dumb I tr enchant or whatever then FIRE is trying to tell ME to use the hood to solve... EXCUSE ME... THERE'S ALMOST MORE POSTS IN THAT HOOD THAN IN HERE.... I HAVE BEEN SOLVING and literally every single thought I have had is in that PT (minus last night) not once did fire ask me my read on anyone in that PT, yet fire is NOW trying to tell me to solve or something.. lmao

[Kovu]

to be fair, I think it's quite literally the fact fire and I have 100% opposite reads for why I'm just flat out done, like yeah the hood was great and all, but I'm very annoyed with this game, LLD freaking shot my #2 TR of this game... like, I'm so over this. RR is obvious scum, there is no freaking way SS and Mena are town here, there were many times Mena was like "I need to talk to ss about that" umm excuse me.. SS voted lava, and ss never told you why? like fire and I were literally discussing reads yet apparently mena and SS weren't, SS and mena conviniently had no reaction to the Dwlee wagon?

and fire wanted to call RR town, like I asked for a towncase wheter he believed it or not, it was WEAK... and he ended on RR town... THERE IS NO FREAKING WAY RR AN BE TOWN.. so yeah big surprise I want fire dead now...I'm pretty certain it's fire + RR, then with less certainty I'm kinda thinking dunn and gorilla too.. and if that is the team, like... wooo all the people doing NOTHING are town? nice to know... town deserves this incoming loss... especially when TOWN is invictus shooting datisi... seriously??

[Kovu]

why did you do a towncase on someone you don't town read?

it was WEAK and fire literally did it was was like "I think RR is towny" at the end...

[Kovu]

why did you do a towncase on someone you don't town read?

she proposed it as like an exercise to see if she was tunneled, and if i could find reasons they could be town, so she could see if they were convincing or not

seemed like not a bad idea to me

yeah cause I told you I was DEADSET, still am, I knew you weren't sold on RR being maf, so yeah.. that case was garbage.. you were also like "I think Cakez is maf"

WHAT SCUM GOES "that was an ass d1" AS A VT IS BEING LIMMED???? Literally stay silent, just like RR... you avoid all pressure

[Kovu]

and fire wanted to call RR town, like I asked for a towncase wheter he believed it or not, it was WEAK... and he ended on RR town... THERE IS NO FREAKING WAY RR AN BE TOWN.. so yeah big surprise I want fire dead now...I'm pretty certain it's fire + RR

i ended on not being convinced by my own towncase, and that i had them mostly null but maaaybe nulltown. i then acknowledged that most of the reason i personally found them town was cause i liked their read on cakez who at the time i thought was likely scum, and said that if I was wrong on cakez then RR would be less towny

nowhere did i say that i ended on them being town. i had them null before so literally the only thing in the towncase that moved the needle for me was the thing about cakez. this is all there in the hood you can feel free to reread it

null town is town....

[Kovu]

hmm ok frick I might be wrong on fire... shouldn't have outed that.. rip but SS AN Mena doing nothing? like that case I still firmly believe in, so I'll just stay therefor a bit, cause this silence from everyone has me thinking fire might be town, cause scum is not going to disrupt TvT arguments..

VOTE: RR

I'll figure my life out later, but this is definitely scum

[Kovu]

I would like to apologize and take back what I said about fire being scum, fire is definitely town. I am sorry fire

[Kovu]

It's like playing free for all dodgeball when half of people have grudge on me.

dodgeball sounds fun!!

[Kovu]

I also don't like Fey's entrance today. Not sure it's necessarily a scum entrance, but I think her conclusions about Invictus and where scum kill is almost 180 on what it should be. Namely: I think that the harder someone who eats the NK is SRing someone, the more likely that person is to be town due to the high chance of them using their Invictus on scum if they're right, and how devastating that could be for the scum team within a couple of nights.

I'd like to think Fey is town, based on how they started the game basically hating me, I'm gonna assume that comes from town!ydra, and if that is scum!ydra... we're not going there

so yeah, that's how fey joined my TRs

[Kovu]

I think it's very interesting, like you guys are all "just invictus enchant!!" or "enchant is scum!!!" just enchant goes "Gorilla maf" and now all of a sudden everyone is like "yeah!!" like, why did you have to wait for enchant for you to actually do something?
"Since when am I sheeping? I already said..."
ummm you waited for enchant.. yeah it falls into the category of sheeping, like, sure I definitely agree with gorilla being suspicious. for sure. but this wagon coming from a town (collective unit) where many yall are actively like "enchant isn't town!!" like, that feels really odd to me, also as long as gorilla continues to be like one of the only ones actively doing anything, I'm not voting gorilla d2

[Kovu]

ok hold up, can someone explain more on why LLD kill clears Dwlee? I'm genuinely not understanding this, like why is Dwlee clear now?

[Kovu]

I could maybe see you committing to the bit as scum to try to keep a Dwlee mislim on the table

SS, do you care to tell us why a Dwlee lim is off the table? like, have you seen LLD's ISO... if anything a kill would suggest she TRed maf, they felt safe. but she didn't really out a single read. LLD is a strong player, I think scum decided to kill her before she could actually make reads, which is how we have a dead datisi, this is the 2nd time you've been all "Dwlee is CLEAR" like, there's no explanation with it... LLD got killed cause she's good, simple as that, I'm universal tr, but I've been SRing you all game, and surprise I'm not dead, you know I've been invictus'ing you...

also this whole SS/Fey conversation feels like partners talking to me.. cause earlier SS was telling me like to be more cautious about my TR there, but when he's talking to fey, he's actively not SRing Fey? idk how to explain it, but this interaction feels like partners, SS killed LLD thinking dwlee is clear or something, idk!! like, why are we claearing the 2nd wagon yesterday that happened at the end?

[Kovu]

@Kovu:

Both RR & I aren’t scum. Time will tell~

val. are you freaking kidding me right now... I have given my case, I'm taking this game as seriously as I can. mala isn't doing crap, so at first I wasn't even gonna click a post cause until mala starts actually playing the game I'm not interacting, but then I was like, maybe I'll click one... you think this game is a joke?

@Mafia my invictus shot is staying on RR all game. Do with that info what you want.

[Kovu]

VOTE: Mala
Also, if no one is gonna invictus the slots doing nothing, we literally have to lim them, and I say we start with Mala, I think we're all just universally like "yeah mala is scum"

[Kovu]

I change my mind, I want Dwlee gone again, that wagon d1 was good, dwlee hasn't gotten townier since
VOTE: Dwlee

Unless they wanna start actually being towny

[Kovu]

I change my mind, I want Dwlee gone again, that wagon d1 was good, dwlee hasn't gotten townier since
VOTE: Dwlee

Unless they wanna start actually being towny

jk this can wait, I'm joining the Meuh wagon
VOTE: Meuh

I definitely don't tr Meuh, and I wanna say meuh and marci shar a pt, like that's how those 2 seem, both blend together here yes, I hated the "im not sheeping I had this thought!!!" thing so much, like, why is it a big deal you weren't sheeping? if that was truly your read, you'd have been voting.

[Kovu]

Kovu has also moved to the realm of "I townread them, but I don't have to like it".

aww if it help my invictus is no longer on yall, in fact, my poe is exactly 5 people right now if we're assuming you're town... that scares me though so yeah. good times!!

[Kovu]

why is marci suddenly super interesting in enchant? like enchant is being enchant, why are we suddenly like "omg enchant!!" like did you just sheep enchant's vote on gorilla? or meuh did, so you're like "I refuse to vote with my SR" but like you and meuh have been BFFs all game, and meuh(or you) sheeped enchant's gorilla vote?

not sure why you're expecting anything from enchant? you either try to interact with enchant, usually enchant will answer, or full send a SR, I'm not about this fence sitting stance here, like, this is lava all over again, trying to get town to justify a sr on another town.

also, I'm pretty sure enchant is town

VP, Cakez is town, that day 1 never comes from scum!cakez, like, that dwlee stuff too? yeah maybe if you read the ISO you'd see it. ever think fire is so hesitent cause it's my top tr? wooow shocking idea, we've discussed all yall tbh, but yeah, cakez is definitely town, like most of yall ignore anything I say, like 1008, Cakez did not have to say anything as scum, instead went "Yeah it was a really bad Dwlee post" like, actually agreeing with me? and then like people were FLYING to that wagon. I'm honestly still convinced Dwlee flips scum, and like scum saw town cakez and I go "dwlee maf" (scum in this world is always Gamma) Gamma was doing everything in their power to get us to go to enchant instead of Dwlee, so like, I really wanna flip Dwlee scum into Gamma scum, that I'm for CERTAIN on happens. but besides the point, cakez is my top TRP this game, Datisi was next TR, but dead now so since I was right on datisi, my confidence on the cakez tr is through the roof. I mean, I can try and put together something more "comprehendable" but Cakez's ISO is ALWAYS town, and then like seald the deal with "what an ass d1" like, scum does not say that right before a VT flip...


pedit.. uhhh this was like responding to marci/VP but then other people started posting, so before this Dunn stuff, I haven't read Dunn/RR/Dunn yet but yeah here's thoughts/answers

[Kovu]

I want to twin with Kovu.

Why would this ever happen? I mean sure if you wanna just guess who I'm on tonight, but I'm not announcing it in thread.. like you had a perfectly good offer from marci to twin with you, when you explained your role, you just said "someone" by you going "I want Kovu" excuse me? So am I gonna die if you correctly guess my target, probably can't self invictus so maybe I just go on you? like, someone said this was a scum role in the first, and if town!you had this role, I'd assume you'd haven been right with RR day 1 going "yeah lets invictus the 2nd wagon!!!" that doesn't out this at all. I don't see why town!you would claim it like you did, and then go "I want to twin with Kovu" WHAT EVEN??? well, have fun guessing my target then.


And I like the Dwlee votes, and laughed when Dwlee showed up after it started happening too, there is no way this is town!dwlee

VOTE: Dwlee

[Kovu]

I might prefer Dunn at this point tbh

What's tipping you toward Dunn over dwlee?

I recall there being some things I slightly liked about Dwlee's ISO but I need to give it a second glance
As for Dunn they've just been kinda meh all around

you want dunn over dwlee? but I'm pretty certain dwlee flips scum, and then we have the competing wagon stuff to look at d1 with a dwlee flip, with a dunn flip we don't have that

[Kovu]

Andante you have literally never read me right

Well, have you done anything day 2? like, as scum you do nothing, so it's not my fault you're falling into textbook scum!dwlee


do you wanna give reads? like you were almost limmed d1, don't seem concerned there, here you're just like "oh yeah.. get Dunn!! the counterwagon to me!!"

[Kovu]

I think all protectives in game should be on me.

I'LL SAVE YOU!!!!

[Kovu]

Kovu, if you still don't want to twin with me, can you at least say that you are not actually gonna plant your invictus on me

I can not confirm nor deny my invictus is going on you or not. It will be on a mafia, so if you're town, then it won't be on you, but if you're mafia, then maybe it will be. That is as much info as I shall reveal, maybe I'll just sheep a fire SR? who knows. cause I don't. Dwlee is mafia though.

[Kovu]

Kovu, if you still don't want to twin with me, can you at least say that you are not actually gonna plant your invictus on me

I can not confirm nor deny my invictus is going on you or not. It will be on a mafia, so if you're town, then it won't be on you, but if you're mafia, then maybe it will be.

Top 10 words lead to disaster.

Disaster is when I have to give reads in thread.

[Kovu]

You seem to be more alive than me right now.

[Kovu]

ok dwlee, what have you done, OTHER THAN "this push on me sucks" like, that's literally all you're doing this game, like if you're town why not actively push a good counter wagon, out TRs.. not quoting literally every post about you and going "bad"

[Kovu]

Cakez is not maf

[Kovu]

I mean, I have info that I'm almost certain clears cakez so yeah, he's not being limmed here

[Kovu]

I mean, I have info that I'm almost certain clears cakez so yeah, he's not being limmed here

Remember in Ktane when you lied multiple times as town. You should stop doing that.

it's not a lie this game, I'm quite certain it'll get revealed later, but yeah, people seriously need to stop thinking cakez is an actual wagon

[Kovu]

like if you need to, just go lim me, then sheep me on cakez being town

[Kovu]

Luke, I'm confused why you're suddenly all "I want cakez now" "I want Mala" like, I feel like a lot of focus has gone into Dunn/Dwlee, and like especially mala now, we've all established we're leaving mala alone till d3, then if she continues doing nothing, she's main focus, literally aready established. End of day is close, you don't have thoughts on Dunn/Dwlee? or do you think they're both town?

[Kovu]

Ok woah, just found a VC, I deefinitely thought Dunn and Dwlee wer top wagons, lol this would explain why Dwlee has just resported to calling all votes on them bad.. the dunn wagon died, and dwlee was just picking next best wagon,

I definitely agree with Luke not looking great, I thought his day 1 was fine, but nothing about d2 seems good... he feels like he's falling apart lol

umm gorilla, you said Luke's role was a scum role in the first version of this, what happened if that role picked the same invictus target as someone?

[Kovu]

If you want to shoot cakez, I would invictus with you there.

no

[Kovu]

If you want to shoot cakez, I would invictus with you there.

no

Stop faking clears on people.

IT'S NOT FAKE, LITERALLY STOP SAYING IT IS.

[Kovu]

genuinely so freaking annoying, like I have a legit clear, then yall are all "Mala's soft is real!! must act as it is!!!" and mala just won't confirm it's real/do anything, yet we're not going "Get RR!!!" like, seriously. just leave cakez alone and stop freaking assuming I'm faking it

[Kovu]

If you want to shoot cakez, I would invictus with you there.

no

Stop faking clears on people.

IT'S NOT FAKE, LITERALLY STOP SAYING IT IS.

This isn’t what someone with a real result would say, they would say, “actually yeah I lied” and then when you get shot, you demonstrated that you lied about lying.

... fine I'm lying. you happy?
(I genuinely still have clearing info for cakez, but must not be real so whatever)

[Kovu]

Kovu that's why you don't fake PRs, people will think you are compulsive liar.
Also i am innocent child, thinking about revealing.

Guess fun isn't allowed when you're a stupid VT every single game... like, I finally have a cool role.. yet no one will just leave cakez alone, like, there's a giant Dwlee wagon, do people like it? hate it? like, go there sure, or marci or meuh. I don't care. but apparently my name has to be Mala and I have to do absolutely nothing to have my clears respected

[Kovu]

I’m not assuming you’re faking it. I think you’re taking it because you’ve faked clears in the past and showed zero inclination you were going to take any feed back about it or even really acknowledged people’s concerns.

Sure thanks.

why do I care about your concerns with my clear?

[Kovu]

See that’s the thing. I respect their possible fake clear on R&R while simultaneously acknowledging that they’re probably scum and just gambiting to live another day phase because that’s better than efforting.

so you respect that, but don't respect me? got it.

[Kovu]

you are not getting anymore info from me. cakez is town. do not invictus him

[Kovu]

Ok, I actually think marci just claimed scum.

VOTE: Marcistar

This post.

Nah, kovu is town. This kind of ridiculousness is pretty town indicative, imo.

idk i remember when i was scum with andate in like holiday dance party she got townread for some shit similar to this

i dont see why what shes done is town indicative? like og i saw it but the more i look at it the more its similar vibes yknow?

Marci's main point is "I was scum with andante and she played like this" what? the lack of talking I'm doing? I literally have more posts than you. Similar vibes? the vibes are not similar at all. Holiday I was dead lost and didn't read any of the game. I even said that 50 million times in scum chat to yall. Here I'm actively around, sure this week got crazy, but I've still been here and responded to everyone saying Kovu. So what is this main argument you have for me being scum then? Cause I'm not seeing it.

It really feels like you're calling me scum for my "lack of spamming" here on day 2, but when I literally have more posts than you, 10 times more than mala, it's just like, what is the basis to your argument here for me being scum?

> I don't see what she's done that's town indicative
Ok um, didn't realize we were playing "Guilty until proven innocent" but, can you honestly give me towny points for everyone else here that you can't give for me?


So back to the main point, I truly believe this is a scumclaim from marci. she sees that I've been "lurking/coasting" and just goes "oh yeah, when I was scum with you you did that!!" like, why is that anyone's first thought, back to the 1 game you were my scum partner for a game in December... where I was home with family, and not thinking about literally any other game? I think the simple explanation is quite simply marci is just maf, and thinks this is a "good" argument to appear townier, but I quite simply don't buy it, and I don't believe there's good intentions behind it, pretty clearly looks like a scum claim to me.

Now marci, if you wanna back up this claim you're making with specific posts, I'd love to hear more, but if you thought I wasn't gonna stand up for myself, and that I'd be an easy push, you'd be mistaken.

[Kovu]

Another fun thing about marcistar is to notice the Votecounts.

Day 1: Marci was on Datisi ALL DAY. sure there was an unvote in there, but datisi quickly got revoted. After that initial RVS wagon on Datisi, there was never really huge concern about his slot. Marci conviniently stayed out of all the Lava vs Dwlee stuff at the end, and just never really had a legit vote day 1.

So like, here I have been thinking about "what happens in the event Dwlee flips town" cause the #1 reason I want to know Dwlee's alignment is cause of eod wagons. And if Dwlee is town, then I'm pretty certain the Lava and Dwlee wagons were mostly if not all, townspeople. Now, hold up let's address the Dwlee read stuff, cause I think we're all just like "They aren't actually solving!!!" ok sure, but what would you do in the situation where you were tunneled Day 1, and then just tunneled all day 2? Idk about yall, but if that was me, I know I'd be doing 0 solving, and all "OMG IM TOWN STOP!!" like, I think we need to give Dwlee some room to breathe, see what happens, then we can revisit that slot.

Ok, back to why I'm certain marci is scum. That's what matters most.
First off, the ENTIRE ISO from marci is just bad, like, if anyone can find 1 good thing, I'd love to see it. but day 1 was entirely focused around datisi, who we now know is town. no one else. just datisi. and I feel like leaving your vote on Datisi since RVS is just like, seriously? you wait 1000 posts to unvote, just to revote. like, if that wasn't bad enough, Day 2 there's a naked vote on Gamma, and nothing really adressing that in the ISO from marci.

So like, I know some of yall may still be deadset on limming Dwlee here, but I honestly really want to lim marcistar here, and it's not just cause marci called me scum, that prompted me to look into marci cause I couldn't recall a single thing from them. So if yall want to vote out a mafia, I suggest joining me on marcistar.

[Kovu]

I have difficulty taking your pushes seriously when you basically say things like "I'm so town, expressing a scumread on me is a scumclaim!". It doesn't come close. I also know for a fact that being parked on datisi D1 wasn't necessary scum indicative either.

Ok, first off I truly don't appreciate all these "I kinda agree with the read but hate that you said it" kind of posts people keep making, if yall could just remember, I'm human too, that'd be amazing.

No where have I said "scumreading me is a scum claim" no where. That is just a terrible misrepresentation of what I've said. If you want clarity you can always just ask... I'm saying that marci referencing the game we were scum together and saying the 2 games are similar at all, is a scum claim. Both games were very different, not similar at all.Marci is literally just looking for an easy push without actually pushing that hard, this was essentially "Kovu is maf, now yall should case her!!" like, I don't like how you just shoot down what I said on the basis that I said it, and I'm pretty certain you didn't actually read what I was saying. Being parked on Datisi ALL of Day 1 isn't scum indicative? Showing no effort to actually solve, and just keep up the weak Datisi push isn't scum indicative? I think you're actually missing the point here that marci is scum, and if this is some sort of thing where in a debate you attack the person making the argument, and not the argument itself??

whatever. why do I even try, yall hate me when I give effort, yall hate me when I'm having some fun, so am I to take this as just I'm hated and no one likes me? I post, no one will answer for HOURS. every. single. time. there's a serious post I make, it's genuinely just the most frustrating thing ever.

[Kovu]

-snip-

I kinda see what you're saying but if town!marci it seems like the given read was a throwaway "here's a random thought I had" instead of being something that she is tied to. I don't even think she voted you, and she prefaced it by saying "Can I say something stupid?" which to me makes me think her position isn't to be taken as firmly.

-snip-

I can understand why it could be that most of my and Lavar wagons yesterday could be town (scum trying to avoid looking bad) but it could also be the case that scum just plopped a vote on one of us because it would be all the same to them. You didn't really tie this together but I'm guessing you think that Marci not voting either of us is scummy then, but I want to see your thoughts on everyone off the wagons and not just Marci, and also who you think could be scum on the wagons.

Yeah see, I could see that yes, but looking at that ISO, there's not a whole lot of thoughts, so like, why even go "hey I have a stupid thought.Kovu maf" if you're not going to provide ANYTHING that supports that. like, I don't see the point in town doing that. Especially so close to eod, like unless the goal was to shift a wagon to me? cause sure I've been coasting D2, but what's the actual purpose of marci deciding that was worth saying in the first place...

I'm not interested in discussing my other reads, the lack of attention anyone is giving marci's slot is what genuinely concerns me for how bad that ISO is. like, Dwlee, think about it. you're town yes? focus has been on you forever. Datisi was town, lots of focus went there. why is marci getting no attention...

[Kovu]

*takes reins*

Fire who do you wanna lim? *let’s go of reins*

I’m utterly and totally tunneled on Baltar.
I’m open to Marci if Luke is comfortable killing there.

not gonna lie, part of me kinda is thinking VP maf.. like every time I'll post and no one will respond.. like he has posted right before me many of the times, and just ignores what I say when I'm actually making a solid point, it's just like, VP... you have no comment? idk, it's a very recent thought, and I was like, hold up.. someone has been tunneling him in thread and I've just ignored... but I think you might have a genuine point there.

[Kovu]

Let's see what happens.

VOTE: VP Baltar

[Kovu]

VOTE: marcistar

ok, I still want marci limmed here

[Kovu]

hi guys im back from work!!! wassup??

Like, this post feels to me like you're pretending to ignore the VC 3 posts above... the page top.

marci, you should claim. you're at Enchant E-1 right now.

oh : (( whyd a wagon build on me so fast?

im just an odd night doc

And then here is like "oh no. wagon." I'm JUST a doc...
Like, I'm really not believing you lol cause, you seem very much just like "oh.. wagon? yeah." and don't seem at all concerned that town's doctor is about to be yeeted.. idk if it's just me, or if I'm tunneled, but I'm not buying this reaction to wagon/claim

[Kovu]

ok, and day 1 you didn't care you had a wagon of 7 either?

[Kovu]

hmm ok, question, can I get 3 names of people you think should be the lim here instead of you and why?

[Kovu]

Lol I wasn’t gonna talk but I have to.
I think maf has a role that messes with the invictus shot of who they kill. I don’t believe LLD shot Datisi, and I don’t believe VP shot Luke.. Now, why in the world Luke would vig shoot mala? no freaking clue…

And Cakez in not clear, in fact I’m just about certain he’s maf. I have a hood with him, thus I didn’t want him gone day 2, but considering how 0 of my SRs just happened to die there… told him how I thought Fey was maf, then Dunn and Meuh just rush into today going “FEY MAF!!” Something is off, and I think it all starts with the fact Cakez is maf.


@RR He adds people to a hood, and yall were my number one pick for who to add last night cause 2 of yall, but he decided he didn’t want to add yall and instead wanted the conf clear who was tunneled on VP… and I’m pretty certain if yall saw the hood yall would instantly call him scum cause cakez in the hood is not great…

So yeah, seeing meuh and dunn instantly go for fey is interesting to me, but yall, i’m just about certain cakez is maf.

And just a reminder we have 12 alive, and I’m pretty certain a scum role can pick the invictus kills, so maf basically has a double kill… we’re at 12 now, and if town is making these stupid “hero shots” we literally deserve to lose…

As for my other hood, I’m certain fire is town, The cakez hood? Cakez not town at all.
(And now I must go back to bed, i’m gonna hold off voting but consider my vote there in spirit)

[Kovu]

I literally didn’t, Cakez added me to a hood, and I needed yall to not yeet him so we could get someone else in the hood, so don’t come at me for “faking a clear” when you have Luke vig shoot Mala who was claiming RR clear.

Exactly 1 role “could break rules” I just about guarantee it’s the scum invictus thing… why else are all the “do nothing”/“low poe” town alive… notice how all the people doing the most/the strongest town are dead… yeah I wonder why

but yeah, I’m literally putting the info out that Cakez is not town at all.. I did Tr him D1 yes, I Tred his role too, but here we are, I do agree with yall on Fey scummy yes, but I think Cakez is a bigger threat? idk we’re probably losing if we lim wrong today so that’s a thing too

Dunn why are you siding with cakez here? Cause it’s sounding like you’re taking his side

[Kovu]

What’s funny is how in both hoods I talked about my SR on Gamma.. and how I was invictus shooting Fey last night… one of my hopds is with maf, literally has to be lol why else would gamma be coming at me now…

Gamma I’m sorry you hated my marci push, I was ignoring meuh and marci cause they blended together, marci called me out, I talked to fire, and decided to tell yall how I thought marci was maf. Sorry if any of my thoughts don’t really flow. I have a 1500+ post hood with fire, where every possible thought/theory is, Cakez hood gets the tldr version of my thoughts cause I was told I post too much. Back to marci,
funny enough cakez outed a “read” of 4 names which were just low poe when I asked him who maf was, it was dwlee, marci, dunn and a 4th I don’t remember, shortly after that he said he was going for dunn then started pushing for dunn in thread… in the hood there’s like 0 content from Cakez, I don’t think he agreed with my Gamma sr, anyways, we dont care about that, right.
why did I pick marci? Well I wanted to give Dwlee a chance to actually be towny, they had just been tunneled all game, literally didn’t have a chance to BE towny, and with all the 50 million “clears” mixed with my TRs, marci just made a lot of sense for maf.. and when I have both fire and cakez going “fire could be maf yeah” (don’t quote me I don’t remember fire’s stance) it made sense… then wagon took off.. I said mala was lock town for insta voting marci there, and uhh yeah.

Sorry for the delay in reply, I woke up 4am, checked flips. then crashed.
@RR/Mena I think the only important part of Cakez hood is here, idk what town cakez would look like, but when I’m dead certain scum chat became aware of my thoughts? yeah… I know neighbors aren’t conf town, but I’m telling yall fire is so towny in this hood and we are actively solving/ challenging each others reads… Fire was never 100% on board with my clear on cakez, cause he was one who SRed Cakez so if you noticed he’d be all “I know what she’s talking about” so like, none yall go scumreading fire for that please.. he warned me in his list of final thoughts before death, like fire is towny as town gets in the hood..
Cakez in hood? will talk in like 1 sentence posts, has MAYBE 20 posts for d2 and n2, and it felt like he was all “ahh need to solve/use hood before I add someone” thus his insta panic to discuss reads, and thinking about it (ooh about to out a read without discussing with fire first… ahhhhh) based on what he said to if I asked if Fey would be bad to invictus, Fey might be town… and based on today’s pushes I don’t feel GREAT about a fey lim at the moment tbh

@Bell I would love to use the cakez hood with you some

OH @everyone back to my point all yall ignored, could town have so much power cause scum gets to mess with invictus kills? like, scum getting a double kill each night, surely we’d have to balance that out somehow… Also Cakez stopped talking in the hood once I brought this thought up lol

And cause there’s still some confusion I think, yes there are 2 different hoods

(ok sorry, phone posting but yeah, I’m having the most fun I’ve ever had in a maf game this game.. so yeah, GOOD TIMES!!)

[Kovu]

It's kind of funny that you expect people to trust you after you just admitted you lied.

I mean, what else was I supposed to do? Cakez told me he was excited to solve or whatever in the hood with me, umm said he was busy.. and umm like no solving happened? but at the time I didn't know he wasn't gonna solve.

I think Gamma/Enchant/Cakez is like at least a 2/3. well, I'm not sure on enchant but Fey is so I'll buy it. I just wanna yeet gamma here I think? but as fire pointed out, feels like people are trying to rush the day phase... like, we don't have to speed lim fey here... in fact I don't want to do that

Like, I'm pretty certain Gamma is maf, been certain on it for a while, so we could yeet gamma here, RR my counterpoint to adding yall to the hood was that day 1 yall were like "we don't talk about our reads" so like, yes even though I was like "add them! it's 2 people" at the same time it's like, RR isn't doing anything in their own hood... why would they do something in this hood?
I just want a Gamma flip, it would explain so much too, but I truly believe Gamma maf, and if any of yall TR Gamma I'd love to hear more. I'm legit only not voting cause yall seem so trigger happy, like, we have so many dumb invictus shots, yall have been rushing to lim town after town, day 2 entire day was just focussed on dwlee basically.. like, the random lims, invictus shots being "hero shots" (I still think it's a scum role.. but whatever... ) we have 12 alive, we don't have many mislims left at this rate, like sure I don't blame people for tunneling Fey here, I was invictus shooting fey last night, she hasn't done anything to actually play the game till d3. But I truly think we need to use our brains and stop all this "let's lim the lowest poe person we have!!" Like, Gamma is pretty clearly maf I think, so much just being there, never really taking a side, then magically tunneling me today?? like, right out of the gate, like "I have to get ahead of Kovu and push first!!" like, yeah I told Cakez a bunch I thought Gamma maf, but I've been telling fire that since Day 1, so it's like, if I'm questioning a hood, I question cakez. for sure. But I still want a gamma flip first. Or at least, that's where I'm at for the moment, just cause my confidence of various reads, Gamma HAS to be maf, it's exactly the same process for how I ultimately went for marci, like, different situations yes. but NO ONE IS PAYING ATTENTION TO GAMMA...like, hello... I don't care about sorting all the claims right now, let scum go through them sure. Gamma is mafia.

[Kovu]

this is fire all over again... like, I'm back to TRing cakez in the hood lmaoooo yall I'm a mess. but. I believe with absolute certainty. gamma is maf, and gamma is the maf with the strongest power. Like, back when I had a dwlee wagon forming day 1, gamma jumped in like "GET ENCHANT!!" which really is looking like a bus at this point. I had a pool of 4 people as potential scum, but one of my TRs has been disagreed with so literally scum is in 5 people.
Dunn/Enchant/Cakez/Gamma/Meuh

Can we PLEASE flip gamma here....

Like, it's possibly just Dunn/Gamma/Enchant?? idk, I tr Meuh, but that's apparantly not a common TR, but yeah, that's where I'm at.. and uhhh yeah cakez shows back up and I TR him... lol

[Kovu]

Ok, can we please stop wasting time/effort on "kovu faking a clear" literally post 1 was "I'm almost certain" and everyone hated that cause "he's either clear or not" so I said yolo and went "yeah he's clear" I was literally telling fire that no matter what I thought, I had to just pretend to be confident in it, cause people were just jumping in to yeet cakez, but I mean yall can't tell me you wouldn't do the same when your #1 TR throws you in a hood with them, like, obviously you feel that sense of "I have to defend you from these votes" Sorry if I did it "wrong" or whatever, but I'm legit just trying my best over here, and to clarify Dunn, no I don't think any of yall are idiots, some of yall are annoying at times sure, but far from being idiots, so I'm not sure why you're still chasing "KOVU FAKECLAIMED" I was trying my absolute hardest to not go "I'm 100% certain he's town" while still keeping the lim away..

Sure my play might not be the best here, but like, I guess at least I'm trying, like, I don't think there's any real confusion in why I'm making certain reads, I try to present stuff here with as much support.. I;m legit trying to be better here, and kinda with that, since I'm currently at exactly 2 SRs (Val/Enchant) I'm stepping back, giving it time, then reevaluating where I'm at, cause exactly 2 SRs does not make sense here. so yeah. I'm trying, I really am...

[Kovu]

I mean Dunn, Cakez had a pretty decent progression on my slot day 1, I completely believe that he TRed me and thus added me to his hood that night, and I don't think anyone here has been asked "X TRs you, what do you think of that? why no reaction to that?" Like, idk I don't think the point being pushed here is a fair point to push, especially when there's a LOT of stuff on scum!marci in that ISO, but not like in a bussing way I don't think, but like, I feel like that would be more worthwhile to discuss..

and uhh cakez hood has gotten significantly better the past 24 hours I believe, it's ~200 posts now, and fire hood... ~1600 leggoooo lol probably like 600-700 are just talking/joking around though

Spoiler: Cakez progression on Kovu

81 - how can anyone have such a massive readslist on page 4? wtf? it feels pretty forced

94 - pretty good vibes from this post. I like Luke's thought process esp regards to Kovu.

Bell’s recent string of posts is very townie-like and they’re probably my strongest townread rn. Both situationally and based on their own actions they should be town.

?????????????

honestly I'd love to hear more on the Bell TRs, cause this isn't exactly mirroring the bell!town I'm familiar with, this bell isn't doing too much, but it's also like half this freaking table is doing nothing, soooo idk, someone called enchant town right? I'm also really curious on that.... cause enchant is one that still has 0 content

thank you lion

we've been here 3 IRL days... and 8 of yall don't even have 10 posts, like, it's not that hard to ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME YOU SIGNED UP FOR...
Probably time to step away for now, but seriously, EIGHT of you can't even post 10 times???? and 1 of the 8 is literally a hydra that seems to care more about their gimmick than playing the game

this complaining is pointless but also probably town

...and how do those reads relate to the prospect of Bell flipping scum?

Both are being independently useless and bemoaning in their own way how people posting in the game right now, which is primarily coalescing around a Bell yeet today, fmpov.

It reads to me like an effort to shift the status quo without drawing too much attention.

how is being useless a scum tell? especially the kind of useless Kovu is being.
it's just not really scummy FMPOV like at all

Town andante wants blood. Kovu is a snoozefest of petty complaints.

what even... so I'm supposed to sit here screaming for blood all game? oh my bad, it's a little hard to do with 8 slots doing absolutely nothing to advance the game. Yeah I posted a readslist, so what? it was largely just asking a bunch of questions to people? you ever think I'm tired of playing like I'm "out for blood" Fey literally just spent a game yelling at me for "throwing" while I was town I figured, new account, we're keeping the tryhard mode, less "shenanigans" more organized thoughts... and you're shitting on me for what?? trying? giving reads? wow.. so freaking scummy

and this feels really genuine in a way that scum Andante is not

okay my brain is hurting I don't want to post anymore

I want to kill one of these people (baltar, val, rhyme and reason, dwlee, tako/mala, marci)
these people are in my townbin (kovu, lavar, gamma, gorilla, luke, dunn)
everyone else whatever

[Kovu]

What makes you think a neighbouriser, in a game with a pre-existing hood and a traffic analyst, is more likley a town role than scum?

This was directed at Kovu, and I would be grateful for an answer when you get around to it, but I am happy to hear anyone else (including Cakez) who wants to weigh in on this.

I mean, when your top TR puts you in a hood with them, yeah you're pretty certain they're town, not sure what the question is here. Like this is just like what Dunn asked, why would I jump to SRing the role, when I TR the person.. so thus I TR the role...

[Kovu]

Hey so have any of yall looked at the VCs? like, Dunn looks TERRIBLE just looking at those, like, I'm pretty certain dunn flips red.

VOTE: Dunn

[Kovu]

Like, don't all of you SR dunn? why are we defending dunn by pushing cakez instead? we ALL SR Dunn... and most of yall don't want to vote there?

[Kovu]

I was gonna say, unless the personal pt is 2000 posts it could made sense.. but no!! I KNEW GAMMA WAS MAF!!! THAT'S BEEN MY GUT READ ALL GAME!!!
UNVOTE:
If gamma doesn't have a good explanation I'm voting gamma over dunn

[Kovu]

Kovu, while we are waiting, might sharing what you think you spotted in the VCs with respect to Dunn?

I spotted that because I'm re-evaluating there.

I mean, pull up prism's ISO, it's pretty clear lol,
Day 1, Dunn just stayed on no one till the day end and picked one.
Day 2, jumped on gorilla wagon at day start, and stayed there all day

wanted no part in either marci wagon?

[Kovu]

i think the more important thing would be his explanation for why he is writing it in a notes PT

actually, yeah.. why draft that up on your own.. why you're barely posting here, so "postcap" isn't a valid excuse really..
YOOO THIS WAS A LEGIT SLIP!!
VOTE: Gamma

[Kovu]

What slip?

the post links in gamma's post go to scum chat, if you cliccked them, you'd go see your chat with gamma

[Kovu]

No one else answer. Enchant, tell us what happens when you click on each of the post links please.

I'm leaning pretty hard towards a scumteam of Fey+Dunn+a mystery 4th atm. (I don't think 5 scum is likely and even if that's the case I don't think it really changes anything I'm about to go over).
For Fey, first I wanna say that I think that them getting emotional today could come from either alignment and that regardless of their alignment the position they're in this game is stressful. I don't think Detective fits nearly as well as Val's Traffic Analyst claim does given Bell's Friendly Neighbor+other Neighbors/izer that have been claimed and I don't get why she'd investigate Datisi in particular over other players when marci & VPB specifically were scumreading/commenting on Dats by the end of day 1 and she'd need to target specifically the scum player making the kill. She pushed marci-town early and then mostly dropped out of the game aside from pushing Dwlee day 2. The lack of activity is actually pretty null imo, but I brought up that day that I agreed with her point that relying on LLD's reads to semi-clear people was a bad idea for marci particularly when she was pushing for Dwlee scum, and that never got acknowledged by her even as marci continued doing basically nothing, which should have fit her idea of marci freezing up. And there's the random marci reads on Fey that Meuh pointed out, town with no reasoning d1 and then swapping to scum for a "weird post" d2 2088 and explaining later that it's because of her vote on the Dwlee wagon 2216, which unless I'm missing something was only mentioned by marci here before that:

guys tbh just looking at dwlees iso in that game and remembering my memory of how he acts as town

i feel like he does more as scum than he has here

Like individually I think a few of those could come from Fey-town, but I don't think it all does together.

For Dunn, it mostly just comes down to me still hating his day 1 and early day 2 play. His question to Cakez just asking "what about me?" in response to Cakez saying she (marci) is not really scumhunting is bad, and yes I know Dunn will say that he wasn't voting anyone either, the point is that thinking marci wasn't scumhunting was perfectly reasonable and true and Dunn decided to pick at the fact that he wasn't voting either instead of addressing the actually valid part of Cakez's argument. He also talks to/about marci a bit & discusses her arguments for Datisi scum (you can look up these on Meuh's 2233 instead of me pulling up the same posts) but doesn't actually make a stand on her alignment until day 2 (w/ post 1234), before that it's just pokes and questions without an actual read on marci being shared, and later he goes back on it for Luke's reasons to townread marci instead of having any of his own. I still think a ton of his posts through the first two days feel more like nitpicks and arguments he's trying to win or look good in than actually get reads on understand the points of who he's talking to, and I think that type of behavior is much more likely to come from scum than town.

Meuh I've read over pretty much her whole iso now at this point and still feel conflicted. One thing I wanna bring up is that I think that Meuh & Dunn are pretty damn unlikely to be scum together. The gorilla pushes, and now the Fey push, and the way they behaved around marci is just too similar in a game where any scumbuddy could die at any time to Invictus and one person's read on you can end your life, and I think it makes a lot more sense that Meuh got blinded by her friend's play than Dunn. If I'm wrong about Dunn then I think she's at least a reasonable guess at scum, but also I think it's likely I was overly tunneled on her gorilla push - I still don't like it and it's probably going to be bouncing in the back of my brain every now and again until either she's deceased or the game's over, but if I put most of that aside, I do think her point about scum seeing the setup as more town-sided than it is and vice-versa was more likely to come from a town mindset than scum even if I don't agree with its conclusion of gorilla being scum, her marci questioning+mentions day 2 in particular were generally reasonable and definitely at least felt better than the random pointless pokes it felt like Dunn was giving to marci, and similar to her point on gorilla I like her post 1287 where she goes over what she thought was iffy about Cakez and reconsiders a bit that she may have disliked where Cakez's focus was but acknowledges that she's not sure how justified that was in retrospect.

Cakez I feel like I understand at least partly where the reads are coming from, in that Cakez has felt fairly lazy this game imo but has also been both aggressive towards particularly marci-scum but to a lesser degree other people who scumread him (gorilla, Lukewarm, & Val around #1306) and was correct on both of Lavar & marci, and I totally get that it feels weird for him to be all of lazy+aggressive+correct on both elims so far. He probably deserves some extra scrutiny for that, but I still don't think his pushes make him likely scum.
----------------------------------
It's like 2:40am so I'm stopping for the night here. I'll do my best to pick this back up tomorrow night, but I Would like other people's thoughts on the above if you have time and/or you've got a strong opinion on either of Fey/Dunn (doesn't have to be long but I'd very appreciate a couple sentences of "I agree/disagree/see where you're coming from but X/etc" )

[Kovu]

I am not authorized to see.

All of them?

[Kovu]

VOTE: Dunn
Back to Dunn then I guess

[Kovu]

So then, that means Gamma is town. like, drafting posts like that is a towny thing to do. idk who the mafia are anymore. let's yeet dunn and that shall be it!! lol

[Kovu]

What’s the Dunn case again?

I remember he gave a defense of me in SH that was pretty pocket-y and he has engaged me fairly enough here that I’m curious.

I think it's different for everyone, the VC stuff points to being marci's partner in my opinion

[Kovu]

Actually, if no one wants to invictus enchant, can we just lim them? like.. there is NO world in which Enchant can be town here, and hey, a maf is a maf...

[Kovu]

(I'm stealing something fire said, but like, I noticed it too)

Sooo are all of yall ignoring the fact Dunn was at e-1 and enchant didn't hammer that? Like from enchant's POV, dunn like has to be maf here.. Enchant didn't want to hammer Dunn? ok, so enchant thinks dunn is town. then who are the 3 possible names for scum?

[Kovu]

then I won't oppose Dunn today, but I think that's a slot that would be at the top of the list for an invest otherwise.

we have no invests left... they're either dead or used all their shots..

everyone seriously seems opposed to a dunn lim, like yes, enchant is mega sus. I agree, but I still want dunn flipped first. Dunn is also the person Cakez has been like tunneling all game. logic says we should lim dunn here

[Kovu]

I would LOVE dunn flipped

[Kovu]

I don't really think it's possible for town to lose this game

famous last words...

[Kovu]

VOTE: Meuh

In fire I trust

[Kovu]

I will not be voting cakez out here. I believe the pool of scum is in Val/Meuh/Dunn/Enchant/Gamma.
Like all yall voting cakez talk as if you know he's flipping town, like, he's gonna flip town, then you're just gonna go "he was bad." "not my fault"

[Kovu]

We have 1 day remaining, I'll lim anyone in meuh/dunn/enchant/val

[Kovu]

Very likely town besties
Fire, Kovu

awww FIRE!!! WE'RE TOWN BESTIES!!!

[Kovu]

VOTE: Enchant

[Kovu]

VOTE: gorilla

I don't believe this BG claim for a second, and Val was the only one alive that could even get reports

[Kovu]

uhhh 1 sec, not rushing day, but gorilla is who I want out...
UNVOTE:

[Kovu]

gorilla, what are your thoughts on cakez flipping town?

[Kovu]

Kovu, how big is your PT with fire now?

~2000 posts and it's roughly a 50/50 split for how many from each of us

[Kovu]

Gorilla is locktown. If you disagree with that statement, I'd love to see the case for why it is wrong.

[Kovu]

Gorilla is locktown. If you disagree with that statement, I'd love to see the case for why it is wrong.

locktown is dumb when scum had a bodyguard in the last game and gorilla's posting in the 2nd half of yesterday was very mediocre
having said that I still think his day 1 play in particular was great so if you wanna have a regular-ass townread on him that's fine

I'm prob not voting until everyone shows up at least once today unless there's a very good reason to do so btw, R&R thoughts and what Fey+Dunn think given the Cakez flip both seem nice to have at this point

hmm a regular tr? that's not as exciting as LOCKTOWN though...

Gamma, I want to figure you out. part of me has thought you've been maf this entire game, so if you're town, ideally I'll just TR you and yeah.

I think most of this is just like, I can't remember you doing much of anything this whole game except that pivot to enchant while I was trying to push a dwlee wagon... although, just saying it now, it's like why would maf do that? Town competing over Lava/Dwlee, maf has 0 need to introduce another option... so that would probably make you town...

but we're addressing ALL concerns of mine, I need to know without a doubt if you're town

Question 1) Why did you ask gorilla who he guarded last night(2850) and like not follow it up with anything? like, usually when people ask questions there's thoughts to whatever the answer is

Reading this ISO it's not as bad as I had in my mind. hmm

2611 you call me maf.. call me the "deepwolf" and talk about how 1 scum is putting in all this effort to avoid invictus shots..
Question 2) what had you thinking only 1 maf was trying super hard? like, by that point, none of the invictus shots were on maf, it's not like a single mafia has died this game... so if I had to guess, maf would be sitting fairly comfortably sure.. but what exactly makes fire or I a deep wolf? like, have we been left alive for people to start casting paranoia our way? At this point idk if this is even a question, this is just where my doubt is. like, you say fire or I is the 3rd deepwolf, but you don't cite anything scummy thus far to back up the claim. Like, just cause we're in a hood? like.. why do WE have to be the deepwolf? plus the claim that only 1 maf is trying hard? I mean, I think it's more that town just isn't trying or doing a whole lot to make themselves known and the "consensus poe" has basically just been the VT claims... like... yeah idk, I have lots of thoughts but we'll end there..


I guess we'll just go with those 2 things for now, my issue is, everyone keeps saying I'm town, but I'm just like, why am I still alive then? like, where are my reads wrong? But then like, I come into today deadset Val and gorilla are maf... val flips town, I don't even reconsider, then a very wise person was like "hey... gorilla being framed" and I was like, yeah... that makes a lot of sense, and like gorilla was saying some stuff that was just way out there and I was TRing that cause again, why would maf say some stuff like that, and the comment like "2k posts is just implausible" like, I laughed and was like, scum probably doesn't say that, scum probably starts asking what they're about or something else, and uhhh yeah all that together is kinda how I arrived at gorilla lock town.

Hmm what else is new... yeah I'm running out of people to make reads on.
I'd love some actual content from Fey, all my reads are just emotions based there.
Dunn thoughts on Cakez being town/who dunn thinks is maf would be pretty cool.

uhhh I'll go back to lurking in the shadows/talking in the hoods... goodbye. that is all..

[Kovu]

If he had claimed to have guarded anyone but Val I would have asked why - him bging anyone else could theoretically come from town trying to block a kill on conf. town but would have needed a damn good reason to do it from gorilla over protecting the investigative role, and the thought process behind that might have been useful. "I protected Val but was roleblocked" doesn't have anywhere else to go from there except setup speculation which isn't really what I want to get into yet.
Now that everyone's shown up at least once I think we should mass-claim at this point and make sure the assumptions we're making at the moment (that the only remaining PR claims are gorilla+Fey+Bell) are right.

So what do you think about the roleblocker point? like, why would scum wait till now to roleblock someone? and you say you don't want to get into setup spec, yet at the same time.. this game is over and town loses if we lim town and invictus shoot town, so you don't want to get into spec yet? if not now then when? like, the time is over to just sit here and coast by, we have like 5 days to come up with a solid pool scum is in, we can't just keep throwing darts at a board hoping 1 hits, so me reading this and seeing "I don't wanna get into that yet" like, if not now, then when? post game? after we have everyone's roles?

The lazy answer is 'usually there's a deepwolf', who through either effort or bussing or both, has put in the work to carry their team to victory if everyone else on the scumteam dies, and nobody else except you and fire really fit that - both of you have put enough effort into the game and pressured marci enough that everyone's reactions to both of ya'll have been "yeah that's fine" or better for the entire game and I'd be surprised if anyone claims to have targeted one of you two with an invictus shot since n2.

The slightly less lazy answer I already mentioned a piece of earlier - in a game where town get twice as many eliminations as mafia do kills, mafia need to have an actual plan to make it through the game, and generally they're aware enough of how they're perceived and the game-state to make one that doesn't suck. Unless you somehow get 4 Enchants on a scumteam, the plan is never "let's ALL lurk and hammer randomly and hope we win that way", and for a game like this there's going to be a Plan A Day 1 for "Ideally we can push these townies" and later a Plan B for "scum 1 gets/got elim'd early by elim/Invictus" and even later a plan C for "scum 2 gets a major wagon on them today" and etc etc. My gut is that you fit that best yesterday with the marci push d2 from you, that I think would be reasonable for you-scum to expect wouldn't go anywhere and just get some distancing in given your complaints about people not playing the game and not following you, but frankly that's more gut and paranoia than an actual conviction - your play yesterday was erratic but the only part I actually find scummy there was your brief push on me for voting Enchant early game+me posting from my personal PT, which I think could reasonably come from town. Fire also makes sense as a deepwolf as *the reasonable scum*, particularly after yesterday, in that he helped push marci early but also tried to convince me of both Lavar-scum D1 and Cakez possibly being scum with marci yesterday with decent but wrong reasonings and not really budging to consider my POV much on either.
Nobody else I think feels like they came out of the marci wagon with what could be a plan to get to endgame.

So, you're suggesting people need to point their invictus shot at "me or fire" now? like, we are very different people who have been playing this game very differently, just waving your hand in our direction feels exactly like "ehhh people should have more paranoia over there!!!" like, your "lazy answer" is just like, "statistically speaking..." like, wow, statistically speaking, Kovu has never rolled maf, so it's more likely kovu flipped maf here. it's something that's not at all related to the game. and you're categorizing fire and I as the same person? like.. that's what is REALLY bothering me. fire and I are NOT the same, and you're making like no effort to distinguish us from one another? just "they're both doing this..."

Yeah, I'm SURE maf has a plan, and their plan is literally never TO lurk, it's just something that happens, and judging by how this game has gone, I don think it's more likely majority of scum are lurking, I mean, we're just had town wagon after town wagon, and not listening to literally ANYONE with a counterpoint.. I've yelled since day 2 that Cakez was town, and then day 3 like all day that's the only direction people wanted to go?? now, I think it's much more likely town were the vocal ones yelling to get cakez. there's a solid pool of people that haven't really commited to reads this game, and that's where I believe maf has been hanging out. Also, not a fan of bashing enchant here, enchant is great, brings the entertainment! I mean, Dunn and Meuh seem to fit your mold of "scum set up to push these people from the start of the game" so if that's the case, and those 2 are town, then who does that leave for maf? you gorilla fey fire. You think my marci push was scum agenda planned from the start of the game? Cakez SRed marci, fire said something, I sent it. and there seemed to be great hesitation jumping on that marci wagon. no one wanted to interact with me AT ALL there.. it was literally not a bus. marci made a garbage comparison, I looked up her ISO, it was scummy, I got validation I might be right, and I laid the cards on the table. You wanna tell me marci was my partner and our plan all game was to bus marci there by marci using a scum game I was busy durring/afk, where MARCI WAS MY SCUM PARTNER... and we're scum again in this game, and that's the plan for me bussing marci? why don't I jump on the marci wagon day 1 then if the plan was always to bus marci?

I don't like this "kovu could be maf" like, it's not backed by ANYTHING game related here, and rooted more in like all those textbook lines people have, like, you're just "everyone TRs Kovu... we need to widen this pool of people that scum are in!! make the pool as WIDE as possible!!! like, at this point in the game, shouldn't you be trying to make that pool as narrow as possible? so if I'm scum, fire is scum, WHO IS TOWN??

Why is your "case" on fire 1 sentence? when I'd argue I'm a whole lot townier than fire in here, like fire has legit wanted cakez dead all game, only backed off cause I was fighting so hard for cakez.. that's not sus to you? but "kovu had this ellaborate plan to bus marci" is sus... so I found us a mafia.. and then that makes me maf.. ok, love the logic here.

So if you are so convinced I'm maf (cause arguably you sr me over fire based on that GIANT paragraph, with most going at me, and fire only getting a sentence...) who is town? like, you're over there trying to make everyone suspicious of EVERYONE.. so who do you TR outside RR and Bell?

[Kovu]

For the record, NO ONE ends day early*** we don't want any wild speed hammers here

[Kovu]

OK so, I don't like posts 32 or 34 because I don't like the way they are hopping on to Datisi this early. 39 Is not the same in my mind.

As for Datisi, I think they are pretty good at faking tone as scum, at least at the start of the game, I don't have a read on them right now. I don't consider that to be contradictory to the above because I am not reading them as scum

So, I looked back at my post 1 reads and they are trash. all the SRs are dead flipped town... oops. but back to Dunn. who I had locked town for this post, now looking back... it's a bad post. Dunn probably maf here

[Kovu]

Hello? Anyone there??

[Kovu]

Meuh, who are you thinking is town right now and why?

[Kovu]

Ok, so you TR me and gamma, and gamma is convinced I'm a wolf, so like, if your 2 top TRs have conflicting reads, why have you not really said anything? like, Gamma has BEEN vocal about me being the deepwolf, I'm 3rd bottom read for gamma... like, gamma seems pretty set I'm a wolf.. and you had nothing to say with our interaction?

Also, it took 20 minutes to say "I tr you and gamma" ?? hmmm...

Well, I don't have gamma as a TR, so like yeah.. largely due to how gamma is going at me like "there's probably a deepwolf so it's you!!" but not citing anything... then gamma didn't even respond to my last message..

So gamma is town for "not wanting to rush a vote" and "asking for massclaims" like.. if that's the bar, we should TR everyone else here too.. Like, a player like gamma, putting a bunch of thought into every post, and you're just like "not rushing vote makes them town" idk, I mean, I guess in a way this is helpful cause I TR gamma over you for sure right now, like, I hate all this generic talk... "interactions with maf looked fine" like, this is exactly why I'm SRing gamma. Generic statements not backed up by anything... like, want to give post numbers for where these good posts are? you know.. something to like actually convince me you believe in this tr?

[Kovu]

I was eating a popsicle
tbh I forgot about Gamma's read on you
Unsure if it's too out of left field to be scum or if they're that desperate to broaden the POE. Meh. I think scumreading you is bad, I'd have to reread Gamma's post for bad intentions because I don't think it's inherently scummy.

I don't remember other specific instances of towniness, tbh. I barely had a read on Gamma before day 3, I was just like "he's around enough and doesn't look scummy so I'm willing to accept he's town for now". In a 20 person game my mind has not had the space to read everyone, especially people making content that doesn't stick out to me. (Like Gamma. Val early on and Datisi too)

Idk Kovu I've technically read Gamma's longer posts but I don't remember much that got said in them. They just didn't stick to me, a lot of things just aren't sticking to me this game. So I'm commenting on what has. Maybe I should care more about truly absorbing the posts getting made but it doesn't really seem worthwhile at the moment.

Imo just pew pew pow Dunn, Gorilla and Fey ASAP and if the game isn't over we look at Fire and Gamma. That's about where I'm at.

It's less simple for you since you have no confirmation of my alignment, I guess. I wish I could just control where our kills went but alas.

> I'd have to reread Gamma's post for bad intentions because I don't think it's inherently scummy.
You were just telling me gamma's posts were towny? like, what posts are you reading? I'm talking about day 4 gamma posts.. like there was even just a list of reads where I was at the bottom, doesn't take much reading to see that.. and my interactions with gamma today have been "why am I automatically maf cause you think there's a deepwolf" Like, why do I out my fire hood at day 2 start as scum? no benefit to outing it.

>I barely had a read on Gamma before day 3, I was just like "he's around enough and doesn't look scummy so I'm willing to accept he's town for now"
This is literally just saying "you're town for coasting" like.. yeah, why do you think we can't recall ANYTHING from gamma until here where the lim actually matters? Like, just being around, but not standing out? that doesn't scream scum to you? scum is trying to blend in. especially with invictus, like, scum doesn't want to be standing out, think about marci. marci wasn't really standing out, was all buddy buddy with you, but was avoiding anything controversial, and once marci went "hot take, kovu maf" I tunneled her, and she died. like, scum sees that, and goes "ok... just gonna blend in" cause town is shooting low poe, or taking a hero shot.

See, I don't like the concept of "lim these 3 in any order, if wrong, just go here" like, at this point in the game we need actual reads, cause surely you know you're in the list of "just lim these people, if wrong go elsewhere" like, if we lim town, and invictus town here, we lose. game over. And people need to at least try here, and if you're not putting in an effort to find maf, you need to at least work on proving your towniness... and that goes for all town here, cause we have exactly a 0% chance of winning if town doesn't wanna try.


Kinda along those lines, @Dunn.. where are you and who do you TR?

[Kovu]

ok so like, no one really wants to do much of anything... I'm good with voting Meuh here, I'll wait till RR isn't busy to actually vote, but it's like, we genuinely can get anything done... we have 9 alive and 3 of us talking here. I wanna say Fey is town, and wanna believe gorilla town. that leave Meuh/Dunn/gamma/fire, and the way gamma is trying to push me but not actually push has me thinking gamma maf. Dunn just doesn't want to participate in day 4? and meuh.. like, it doesn't take 30-60 minutes to respond to me here, like I was wanting a conversation. we haven't talked all game, surely you'd want to talk here, especially if I really am your #1 TR as you say I am?
And well, if fire is maf, that hood is freaking impressive, so it's like, is the team just meuh/dunn/gamma? and we're just sitting here.... like, I understand RR not being here, but like, Dunn if you're town, come on.. like, hello? I guess we're sitting here doing nothing for 48 more hours... for no one to change their mind/do anything... this is just sad/boring tbh, like PEOPLE!!! I was having fun!!! helloooooo

OH SNAP WE GOT A MEUH RESPONSE !!!! that's getting its own post

[Kovu]

> I was referring to Gamma's read on you. I don't think scumreading you is an inherently scummy thing. I think it's incorrect, yes, but not necessarily scummy.
* It's not scummy that gamma is calling me scum, yet not actually committing to the read? like, he's doing everything in his power to just avoid justifying me as scum using any reasoning other that "probably a deepwolf" like, what posts have I said that make him feel that way? He said our plan was for me to bus marci, yet I never jumped on the day 1 marci wagon, I called that out and he refuses to talk about that. I raised good points, and gamma has been responding to everyone else, yet ignoring me..

> I think it's a bit silly to assume you're a deepwolf, but I also very much can see a townie get paranoid about one existing, and if so, you and Fire are the only candidates.
* Just cause fire and I are neighbors that have been giving this game 100% effort, that makes one of us a deepwolf? like, my issue with the deepwolf "case" is that yall are just "one likely exists... yeah.. probably" like, COME UP WITH READS AND JUSTIFY THEM. cause it's really feeling like scum hasn't touched fire/I solely to cast doubt on both us being real.

>I think you've had too many moments that seemed very genuine to be scum, but I think your posting style of often switching up reads and votes, seemingly unprompted could be seem as scummy.
* This feels like you're reading a line that was given to you.. which vote switchup do you hate? I believe I gave reasons in the moment for all of them, like, again. I CAN'T STAND THE GENERIC STATEMENTS. If you're going to call me out for some generic thing.. PROVIDE THE PROOF TO BACKUP YOUR CLAIM.

> But I should probably properly take a look at Gamma's push against you. If his logic or tone is bad, then maybe he has ill-intentions here.
* I've only said ALL DAY about how it's bad... yeah... maybe it is worth looking into.

> Okay look at this, it's townie logic. The only scenario where I see Gamma push you as scum like this is if he's very desperate and also partnered with Fire. (Pushing you over Fire would be bad if you and Fire were town/town.) But those 2 things seem contradictory. A Gamma/Fire/anyone else team was - and imo still is - lined up for a win. So I just don't see scum!Gamma saying this.
* What town says this? like, are you TMI'ing Gamma town here? like, you "read" a gamma post, and now you're just declaring gamma as town, based on minimal thinking. like, hello?? we HAVE to lim scum here. and you're just "I don't see scum gamma saying this 1 line" like, that is a TERRIBLE read.. like, level 0 thought process... you're acknowledging deepwolf possible, that deepwolf couldn't be gamma? like, you seem VERY against a gamma lim/SR, almost with the level of confidence I had for Cakez... only the difference here is Gamma is NOT even close to as towny as cakez was.

> I do see town!Gamma saying it though. Being scared, seeing the gamestate as worse for town than it realistically is, and having a scumread on someone who clearly isn't going to get limmed anytime soon seems like ridiculous scum play. Wouldn't the best angle for scum!Gamma to go with like, actually to just try to pocket you?
* You're like convincing yourself you believe Gamma is town, but like, you don't believe it... and I genuinely can not see this being a read TOWN makes,
- having a scumread on someone who clearly isn't going to get limmed anytime soon seems like ridiculous scum play.
* That is EXACTLY what marci did... so "why would scum do the same thing twice" really isn't a solid argument.. again, gamma really isn't pushing me, just trying to cast enough doubt my way... Why would gamma try to pocket me? Fire has me pocketed, Fire has known every single one of my thoughts. Gamma came out with a SR on me basically right after I told fire I thought gamma was maf, so to me it looks like gamma knows he has 0 chance of pocketing me.. oh wait, you're not reading any of these posts, just saying stuff


ok, I have to go. but I swear.. this read.. Meuh is not living past today at this rate. I need to TR Dunn for some reads to make perfect sense, but not like dunn is trying, but Meuh's stance in regards to gamma here is like... actually bad... I.. aghh I have to run to the vet, but Meuh is so maf

*uhhh this is in response to that big post before my last post idk post number

[Kovu]

Alright, I am over this, we're waiting and waiting on... like 1 person who said they'd be gone for a few days, and to be fair neither hood has told me no, so Dunn. would you like to vote out meuh or gamma here? those are the 2 options

[Kovu]

Kovu
Fire
Gamma
Fey
Meuh
Gorilla

Something like this for me

@Kovu

yeah fire found that for me lol, I think you're town. and I'm not opposed to a meuh lim at all now, but if you'd prefer gamma... I would also go there. I'm not saying we have to rush a lim this very second, I'm just saying that I'm voting and if a lim happens, it's fine by me. cause if yall wanna wait for RR we can sit here staring at each other longer, but the state of this game is like, no one really doing anything.. and if we're gonna lim town, that'll happen, so yeah. meuh/gamma/fey is my read for the scum team. but based on my people I talk to, I think meuh/gamma is where we *all most agree
(*not all voices have weighed in)

[Kovu]

sounds good.

VOTE: Meuh

[Kovu]

Alright, I am over this, we're waiting and waiting on... like 1 person who said they'd be gone for a few days, and to be fair neither hood has told me no, so Dunn. would you like to vote out meuh or gamma here? those are the 2 options

Between those two Meuh. I'm a bit worried they don't make sense as a gorilla partner, though, which is where I'd really like to elim today.

gorilla is never being limmed here