LOST (Game Over)

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Who is scum, Enchant?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I still think Johnny is scum >_<

I concede BBT is probably town, i forgot BBT and Bella had a that weird conversation about game pace

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Who besides me do you think is scum Malcolm?

As I've outlined above, I'm increasingly of the belief CSF could be scum. Didn't think much of them as potential mafia early on but felt they'd been quiet last turn and the links between them/Bella look reasonable as two scum-mates who potentially defended each other a fair bit early on before Cat bussed at the right time.

I think I'm hindsight Bella was working very hard to pocket me

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm also now wary of johnny and he knows why. I think he could be scum here : DD

This is coincidentally why I thought pooky scumread me

I Keep going back and forth on it, cuz I trust Nancy's meta reads, but I also think csf could be scum here

Did you think you were playing scummy here too?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Johnny

[Cat Scratch Fever]

If the other game is over, you can talk about it

[Cat Scratch Fever]

It's possible but

they did throw in a null-read there at one point.

I don't think it's beyond Bella to have townread a potential teammate.

Why does that rule out that she was buddying me?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Out of interest, who else do you reckon is scum other than Johnny? I liked the case on Johnny early game but struggling to see it following

Math's

elimination.

How does Math's elimination rule out Johnny?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Nancy this feels wooden right here

What feels wooden?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Just like the whole "I was being pocketed, no no that doesn't matter I'm pretty sure I was being pocketed" thing

i'm obviously biased, but I still don't understand how an early null read means Bella wasn't trying to pocket me for the other 80% of the game, especially given the interactions we both had with Klick

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Rad better not be scum tho, I can only be so wrong

I also think lamenting about how wrong your reads have been here and in 10213 are weird reactions to have, since you weren't townreading Bella from a quick skim of your ISO.

You had her in your "willing to lim" pool back in day 1. So you were wrong on Math but you weren't really wrong on Bella per se

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Why does me being in a PT with Ceph impact your view of my opinion of your scum read?

I'm curious if Ceph has an updated read on Johnny since the latest flips (or at least the Bella flip)

[Cat Scratch Fever]

It's possible but

they did throw in a null-read there at one point.

I don't think it's beyond Bella to have townread a potential teammate.

Why does that rule out that she was buddying me?

This post? I do agree it doesn’t really make logical sense. If Bella was tr scum!CSF than it clearly would rule out a pocket obviously.

What doesn't make sense?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I still think Johnny is scum >_<

I concede BBT is probably town, i forgot BBT and Bella had a that weird conversation about game pace

Starting at this post and for basically that whole page. I don't know your definition of "wooden" but this ish is 100% tone deaf with a side of eneffectual pushing

What is tone deaf? What do you think I'm missing?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Bella can’t pocket you if you’re her buddy.

Malcolm was saying that Bella was not pocketing me because she wasn't townreading me early Day 1.

My point was simply that because Bella did not townread me in the beginning of Day 1 does not mean she was not pocketing me for the rest of the game.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

What is tone deaf? What do you think I'm missing?

Like I don't think I've been very interesting for the last week or so in this game, so jumping in to shade me and

not saying *anything* about Mal, Mislim, or Rad hits me as tone deaf if I'm being optimistic.

If I weren't also worried about my own tendency to omgus I might call it scum motivated

That's fair

I think Mislim Bait is town. Haven't had time to reread Malcolm or Rad.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

But I've also been lowkey pushing you since day 1 >_> it's not like this push is completely out of left field or something

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Well right, but there was a whole discussion between the three of them like 8 posts prior

I did pick Malcolm over BBT to talk to for a reason. Without having reread anything, I think Rad is probably town though their readslist with the Roden null read and butterchurn townlean gives me pause (like if one of those is town, the other should be town too?)

Otherwise I've been kind of skimming since like yesterDay

[Cat Scratch Fever]

But I've also been lowkey pushing you since day 1 >_> it's not like this push is completely out of left field or something

So I literally did this exact thing as scum in the game I just won. Picked someone and pushed them for 3 full days without really trying to gain momentum. That's the *ineffectual pushing* I was referencing earlier

All right - at least I can see where that is coming from now

I will make time to write a case for you later tonight, but it's kind of annoying when people take you out of the pool for kind of silly reasons imo when your posting today is the most scumhunting you've done since like the first half of day 1

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Rad, why is best bird's claim too ririculous to be scum?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Rad, why is best bird's claim too ririculous to be scum?

I'm having a hard time knowing what to believe with regards to claims.

Do you think it's not too ridiculous? Does scum!BB make that claim when he did? For what reason?

I don't see why it even has to be a fake claim? Although i guess it's not super useful for scum to talk to dead people unless their buddy is super good at coaching or something

But you also don't really have a way to verify he's has a PT and isn't a scum checking the dead person's role thing

Kind of blanking right now

Im inclined to believe it but i don't think it's too ririculous - that's an interesting characterization

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I can't fathom why scum!BB would be given the PR to talk to dead people.

I guess scum!BB could find out a dead person's role or target and then potentially manipulate town with that info however they chose to.

I had never thought of something like that. For me, it was either town!BB is telling the truth or scum!BB is lying.

I guess I find this a bit hard to believe considering this:

luke town reads Mala in 78/166 from Mala's 2 opening posts. 2. opening. posts. I was thinking about Mala's potential power claim - being able to talk to the dead? Intitially sounds like a townie type power, but what if it's a scum power? That would be really powerful as well, being able to talk to the dead and make up dead town reads as they see fit. Plus I think you'd be more likely to just let that one slip early as scum to try to look like a town claim, cause if you're town and you just gave away a huge power like that, you're not even going to get a chance to use it as you're most likely going to be the first NK. So I'm not sure where this town read is coming from beyond potentially reading that power as a town power and not thinking it through?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Rad

Call it tough love

weren't you townreading Rad?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Making my way through Rad's ISO, he doesn't seem like scum with MathBlade to me, though this ISO dive is not as conclusive as I'd like it

Holy shit I try to catch up, come in and it's on page 106, and I read everything starting from 95ish? and it's 6 more pages while I'm reading.

I mean I'm actually super happy how much happens in this game but it felt like I would never catch up...

So we're voting Mathblade Luke? I wanted to vote DP but I do think the corwin slot has a strong chance of flipping red. DP slot has bothered me the entire game and I'm finally feeling a strong scum read on it.

VOTE: Mathblade

This vote on Mathblade was the third vote (after Lukewarm and Pooky).

This is the closest VC. Other wagons were stalling/falling apart, so putting that vote on MathBlade helped get it rolling:

Spoiler:

Flavor

not today satan

Vote Count 1.24

3 BlueBloodedToffee (Dunnstral, PenguinPower, Klick)

2 The Toad (Cat Scratch Fever, PookyTheMagicalBear)
2 MalcolmTucker (Cephrir, JohnnyFarrar)
2 Bell (T-Bone, Mathblade)

1 JohnnyFarrar (Off the Hook)
1 Frogsterking (ProfessorDrapion)
1 Cephrir (Roden)
1 ProfessorDrapion (The toad)
1 Dancing Puppets (Malakittens)
1 Cytosine and Guanine (Bell)
1 PookyTheMagicalBear (Dwlee99)
1 Dunnstral (BlueBloodedToffee)
1 PenguinPower (Enchant)
1 Roden (MalcolmTucker)
1 Mathblade (Lukewarm)
1 Lukewarm (Frogsterking)

Not Voting (Taly, Cytosine and Guanine, Bellaphant, Dancing Puppets, Rad)

With 26 alive, it takes 14 to yeet.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-07-18 12:42:51)

Mod Notes

ProfessorDrapion replaces Galron
Mala on V/LA until the 16th

His trajectory before the wagon also feels fine:

Spoiler:

Corwin ISO deep dive:

1361 - He knows BBT's style isn't to lurk. This feels like unncessesary shade.
1442 - Early town read on me. He knows I just won a game as scum. He didn't read it. I think he'd be more cautious, BUT he did play against town!Rad so maybe I'm an easy read for him. In this same post he's got a scum read on BBT which doesn't actually make any sense IMO.
1464 - I don't like his assessment of BBT here. It's very heavy on BBT not being active but again, he knows BBT isn't a lurker style player, and Corwin has his own non-AI lurker issues, so I feel like he should empathize with BBT here.
1469 - is fair, he was scum when I was town, he should have a decent read on me regardless, though I will say that it sure would be an easy thing to say as scum!Corwin here.
1473 - I mean, who cares if you like BBT saying "I'm town as fuck" - is it AI or not? He doesn't address that, he just doesn't like it regardless of alignment, which comes across scummy to me. I'm actually addressing it in 2031.
1474 - permission to read BBT scum
1710 - more permission
1723 - passes off BBT scum read permission onto me "I'm surprised Rad doesn't feel this way too"
1742 - I do like this, where he gives a reason for his own read instead of just asking BBT about BBT's read
1763 - It's a big game and it's hard to remember everything, is that a good reason to read scum on someone?
1843 - Ehh is this corwin just pointing out something that should be obviously scummy, but then not following up on it with a vote?
1897 - Good post, or scum!Corwin knows t-bone is town and can easily say this.
1902 - Null read on BBT? but had no problem throwing shade constantly.
And he ends with some stats stuff which is probably accurate bit non-AI.

I know corwin, as scum, can become very defensive. He's being very defensive here. I'd need to check his town game to see if this is consistent. I know in his post-game scum game with me, he maintained the defensiveness, so maybe non-AI.

I don't find his interactions with BBT match what I would expect from a town!Corwin. I feel he clings onto the "scum!BBT is so scary!" and never lets go. I was BBT's pet in my first newbie game here and I don't even look at him that way.

I'm leaning scum on Corwin.

There are also a few posts in his ISO before that where he talks to Corwin about BBT.

Then he actually puts a spotlight on Corwin by asking others about him. This goes beyond just keeping a buddy in their scumreads:

Spoiler:

I'll go back to Toad but I'll switch to Corwin if Luke decides to.

VOTE: The toad

I enjoyed my time on the T-Bone train though <3

Works with townread about potentially building a Corwin wagon

Hey Toad. I think it's relevant if you read Corwin here.

Kinda like Corwin on a vibes level?

granted ill reeval if mala continues to do nothing but im way happier with her than other low content slots right now so i can certainly understand how frogsterking arrived at the same conclusion

I am... actually surprised how acceptable I find this.

This post seems towny in that it seems to show evaluation? It's not like impossible to come from scum but I think scum Corwin is more likely to keep pushing on Mala here

What about a Scum!Corwin trying to appeal to ceph?

Ceph don't worry about leading, just read corwin and toad for real and give your thoughts.

Bell the mb read was really on corwin. How did you read corwin?

Then he moves Math to null to let him catch up, which is okay I guess, but doesn't mention Math much after that:

Spoiler:

Oh am I still on Math?

UNVOTE:

Yeah I had a slight scum read on corwin. I'm happy to let Math catch up though and separate from my corwin read, I haven't gotten any sort of leaning from Math so far.

...until this post:

ceph smart to town read me but also know my reads are absolute garbage so I shouldn't be involved here XD

you can answer too if you like. i'll give you and Drapion half votes since I think your reads aren't super good.

bahaha, don't give me any points man, I just <3 johnny whatever alignment he is

Taly
MathBlade
Dancing Puppets
JohnnyFarrar

Math is fairly high up. This was after Drapion put Math as his first preference:

Spoiler:

you know what? i don't need an answer to my last question. the last 2 pages answers it.

@Pooky, Luke, CSF, ProfessorDrapion, T-Bone, Bell, any masons who happen to be here right now

Please stop whatever you're doing. My thing is going to be a lot more important. Instead, please rank these players in the order you would most like them to die. T-Bone, if you could drop your neighbor embargo thing for this and give honest reads, I would appreciate it.

Dancing Puppets
JohnnyFarrar
Taly
MathBlade

Taly, DP, Johnny, Math

Math, John, Puppets, Taly

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm kind of interested in RCE's read on Rad, since they were scum together

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Frog can you use it during the day?

Anyway, rereading parts of the game jogged my memory about this post

Which is when was the last time you've seen a day rolecop or a day anything besides activated IC in a non-meme game?

This is an example of how I found Johnny's scumhunting to be fake, just by asking kind of nonsensical questions like this.

Rad asked the same question, but Rad is new (evident just from reading the first sentence of this next post, no offense :S):

Spoiler:

OH I thought the "2 shots" meant he could shoot someone, like a day vig or whatever? It means he can detect roles on 2 people during the day and he's claiming he just did that to Luke and Luke is scum?

The wiki says it detects a person's Role. What's Luke's ROLE frog?

Also...

4. Mafia is not determined by flavor. That means roles were mostly selected at random to determine which roles would be mafia.

Does this make role cop not able to detect alignment?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Maybe I was wrong to townread C&G? I feel like I've seen RH9 be more engaged in Dead/Spectator PTs than this game.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Maybe I was wrong to townread C&G? I feel like I've seen RH9 be more engaged in Dead/Spectator PTs than this game.

What about Bella wanting to vote them > Math?

That's the only reason I ever townread them.

But the two of them put together barely has more posts than the mod. I get they had a post restriction day 1, but still...

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm mostly done with Malcolm's ISO. I don't see anything to rule him out as scum based on the flips we have.

He didn't talk to or about Corwin. He townread Math - 3014, 3943 - but I can see that coming from either town or scum.

With Bella:

Hi Malcolm, we are awake together and i change my mind on your alignment literally half way through your posts sometimes. Can you throw a question or two my way?

Sure.

What's your read on Johnny?
What's your read on Dunn?
What's making you uncertain about my alignment?

Apologies if you've already clarified any of that.

Bella's response (linked in spoiler below):

Spoiler:

Johnny could very easily be scum . I don't see them making much a thread impact and the only thing that sticks out to me is that they seem to be around to get a few page tops but not massively enagge with anything else. Tbf I basically think the same about mala and I get the vibe that a fair few people are town reading her! Johnny is worse than mala for me because I can tell by his post count that he has content but my mind just slides off the slot.

I just spoke to cat about Dunn. I think Dunn is a player i will always have trouble reading. It worries me that some of my scum reads are based on 'tone', but I don't think it's a big an issue as I think : for example, I'm starting to town read t bone!

With you I read your posts and go 'yes, no, what? Yes...' in the same post. This happened a lot around your corwin stuff. It's odd to me because I find most players, especially the vocal ones in this game, are very straight to the point so it's easier to just follow and then say 'yes/no/that's scummy'.

@frog, I hard town read them in the very early game for meta, the thing I found towny has disappeared so would be down, yeah.

^ This is a hedge-y read on Malcolm from Bella (and she was quite hedge-y about Math!).

Neither party followed up on this conversation after that (I checked both ISOs - neither mentioned the other until at least day 2) - though if he were SvS with Bella, I'd be a bit surprised they didn't use this opportunity to get some SvS interactions in.

He's done a lot of Rad pushing, which I'm not really feeling. But if Johnny were scum, I'd also feel a good deal better about Malcolm. Idk that trio feels like a Gordian Knot to me

[Cat Scratch Fever]

btw did Luke ever claim/soft his role?

Also if Mala has a result from last night, she should claim that.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I have a really dumb theory about why Klick dropped that I won't even go over until end game, that's probably influencing me some, but I try not to let it.

Me too! I wonder if we have the same reason?!?!

Would "Klick the honorable" make sense with your theory?

Is it ok to share this?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

If hedgeyness is your criteria, then I think this spews Johnny town and it’s hard to tell with Mala but you could possibly be onto something with this.

I'll try to holistically analyze how she was reading every slot later tonight

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think rad is probtown, as is BBT and butterflies

Might be worth taking a look at oth next

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Johnny

1788
And I feel like he hasn't really interacted/talked about his Frogster scumread even though he's been comfortably parked on that wagon for a long time.

There was allot of interactions with them and Johnny and it spews Johnny town so for any having doubt CSF spews allot of people if they are a wolf.

Does my town flip spew Johnny scum :3

[Cat Scratch Fever]

BTW we were in Masons and Mafia game.

Yeah I know I said i figured out who you were a long time ago

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I have a hard time trusting Drap's vetos on anybody when he doesn't seem up to date on what's going on in the game.

- Malcolm isn't my preferred elim toDay, partly due to Luke's townread there and their neighborhood. It feels like a nightkill on Luke directly opens up a path to an elimination on town Malcolm, with a vocal town leader who was one of his main defenders now gone, so the fact that he immediately became a leading option after Luke's death doesn't sit right with me.
- I've seen Miselim Bait's name thrown around, and I really don't think that Klick's interactions with Bella are partnered, especially 3896 I think never comes from someone partnered with both Bella and MathBlade.
- BBT's conversations with Bella don't seem partnered to me either.
- I don't agree that Johnny should be off the table, nothing there seems partnered, and as far as I know there's nothing to support Drap's belief that they are a doctor, so I will continue to ignore that until given reason not to.
- C&G is also an option, but a weaker one, since some of the interactions make them less likely as a partner to the flipped scum. I don't think it rules them out, though.

Is rad/Johnny/c&g your current solve?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

C&g are you still scumreading BBT? What do you think of the town argument in 11284?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think Malcolm is town, the Luke NK is a good point in favor of
a town malcolm.

Bleh this game is quite difficult

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Taly - reading through your ISO this turn, feel like you're asking a lot of questions in a way which could potentially compensate for actually being busy/scumhunting at times. Is this (yes I'm aware of the irony of this being a question) how you tend to approach the game in general? I feel at times like you're very much sort of loosely hunting for info while asking questions but not necessarily doing a whole lot with that info once you get it.

Bella also didn't even deign to vote during the gladiate, which does reinforce that read
This is town!Taly besides Math clearly spewed him scum with his fence sitting during the gladiate. Did you even read their interactions during that?

I'll need to go back and reread the gladiate interactions, lot was going on then and easy to miss stuff. I've largely TR'd Taly so far, just their posts today are starting to make me less certain.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Wow i messed that up

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Taly - reading through your ISO this turn, feel like you're asking a lot of questions in a way which could potentially compensate for actually being busy/scumhunting at times. Is this (yes I'm aware of the irony of this being a question) how you tend to approach the game in general? I feel at times like you're very much sort of loosely hunting for info while asking questions but not necessarily doing a whole lot with that info once you get it.

This is town!Taly besides Math clearly spewed him scum with his fence sitting during the gladiate. Did you even read their interactions during that?

I'll need to go back and reread the gladiate interactions, lot was going on then and easy to miss stuff. I've largely TR'd Taly so far, just their posts today are starting to make me less certain.

Bella also didn't even deign to vote during the gladiate, which does reinforce that read

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Drap's case on CSF is strong.

Actually what did you like about this? A lot of the scum case was based on my read on math and bella, but your reads on math and Bella weren't any better

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Also Malcolm, I'm curious if the points in favor of town rad have swayed you at all

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Seems premature? but i will defer to the likes of pooky for that

Also there's at least one vt, not necessarily exactly one

[Cat Scratch Fever]

1) This game is draining.
2) We are both busy. Not so busy we cannot play, but busy enough where being always present is not at all practical.
3) All the action happens when I am working further decreasing my engagement with the thread.

how often do you talk with Guanine to work on reads? i have the general impression that you aren't doing this very often

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Mala please claim your result please and thanks ^_^

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Dunnstral is theorized to have been the vig, but i don't remember when we settled on that theory. D4 perhaps?

Either Luke or bell can be coroner'd tonight

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Dunnstral is theorized to have been the vig, but i don't remember when we settled on that theory. D4 perhaps?

Either Luke or bell can be coroner'd tonight

The question is why does Mala target Bella over Dunn. What info do we get that we care about from targeting Bella?

I kind of thought Bella might've been lying about her role

But fair point- there was some confusion about the "confirmable" aspect of Dunn's role

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Mala, who is scum?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Not interested in voting Mala today

Johnny or maybe Malcolm

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Malcolm

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Meh, not feeling great about Malcolm flipping scum

VOTE: Johnny

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Outlined beforehand I liked the possibility of a CSF/Bella team, their interactions with each other felt like it could check out as scum teammates -

some soft TR's

with the occasional null read thrown in there just to create a little bit of distance.

I don't think this is true. Bella was not soft TR'ing me aside from early day 1.

Beyond that I don't think CSF's pushes have been great as of late and feel like they could be coming from scum trying to defend teammates and implicate other players I read as town. Is is not interesting, eg, that Cat continually pushes Johnny, who I think is looking really townie, and then as the day wears on a whole bunch of votes start to pile onto Johnny again?

If your whole reason for thinking Johnny is town is that "Bella kind of pushed Johnny as scum," then why is Mala ever a better vote here? Mala was (a) actually voted by Bella and (b) pushed by Corwin as his only scumread

This question is not really to you, but more to the peanut gallery, but I legitimately don't get it

Perhaps you don't think Mala has done enough to prove she's town, but what on earth has Johnny done either????

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Out of interest, who else do you reckon is scum other than Johnny? I liked the case on Johnny early game but struggling to see it following

Math's

elimination.

How does Math's elimination rule out Johnny?

Sorry I'm getting confused on who suspected who re scum. Math wasn't really pro-eliminating Johnny - Bella/Johnny was a different story. 10685 outlined why. Maybe it's possible I could be underestimating the amount of SvS stuff we've been seeing though? Some of Johnny's more recent posts don't fill me with confidence but I'm also aware I'm struggle to tonally townread them when they post which could be influencing where I'm at.

No, it was bella...

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'd vote BBT or Malcolm

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Scum obviously have some sort of strongman then.

BBT, why is there no paranoia of a Bella fake claim here?

Then check this out T-Bone

I'd vote BBT

BBT and I were both town in C9++, and we literally saw a scum fakeclaim doctor - this was around the same time Bella claimed doc. In C9++, BBT was less hesitant to doubt Enchant's doctor claim, and ultimately even voted Enchant.

Spoiler: Posts from C9++

Subject: Open 859 - C9++ - Postgame

Aw my pagetop.

I am Doctor.

Subject: Open 859 - C9++ - Postgame

VOTE: Enchant

Hoping to wake up to a hammer.

Subject: Open 859 - C9++ - Postgame

Enchant has been eliminated. They were a

Mafia Roleblocker

.

It is now Night 1. The night deadline is in (expired on 2022-07-25 21:12:56).

The night can end early if all living players agree.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: BBT

[Cat Scratch Fever]

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Flavor

Vote Count 5.6

5 Malakittens (Best Bird, Rad, MalcolmTucker, Roden, T-Bone)

4 BlueBloodedToffee (ProfessorDrapion, butterchurn, Cat Scratch Fever, butterflies)

3 MalcolmTucker (Mislim Bait, Cytosine and Guanine, PookyTheMagicalBear)

2 JohnnyFarrar (Off the Hook, Malakittens)

1 Cat Scratch Fever (JohnnyFarrar)

Not Voting (Yeet, RCEnigma, BlueBloodedToffee)

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to yeet.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-08-13 19:28:13)

Mod Notes

Replacing RCEnigma
Prodding Off the Hook

Johnny are you doing one of those ineffectual pushes right now?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

She checked frogster

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Ceph is 1shot glad with the hated modifier
Math is a 1shot RB’r neighbor
Bella is a macho doc
Frog is 2shot role cop

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Bella pushed him, so people don't think they're partnered is the gist.

I don't think it's a good reason to tr him, but I'd start with bella's iso and go from there

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Role is nai

Besides, not convinced it's actually her role due to her picks

And if it is, again, role is nai

Why does scum mala claim an obviously suboptimal check? It seems more reasonable as an action from town who's checked out.

This is a town mala iso from a very recent game: viewtopic.php?p=13449888&user_select%5B ... #p13449888

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Johnny

Prefer this to BBT

[Cat Scratch Fever]

It's not proof she's town, it's that i don't think any of the arguments for a scum mala have been very convincing. And her town range varies more than you might think.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

wooo - let's try and start another wagon that won't go through with three days left

super helpful

Why can a Johnny wagon not go through? The resistance that wagon has is absurd.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

the resistance to ALL of the wagons is absurd, but you are starting from basically scratch (haha) here vs. two viable wagons with a potential third.

I don't particularly like either of the main wagons. What am I to do? Happy to move to Malcolm. I could also put my vote back on BBT i guess.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Malcolm

Happy to do Johnny as always

I'd probably vote mala over BBT atp

Stay tuned for more read changes from yours truly

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I might as well lay it out though. Drap calling Johnny a doctor makes me think he has too much info because I have a protective role and claimed to have one to Johnny early. I said I protected Drap after the Bella flip. There's a paranoid part of me that Johnny and Drap have been discussing these things in a Mafia PT, leading to Drap calling Johnny a doctor in this thread.

Hmm, i thought BBT was softing doc, that's why I named him my less preferred lim today the last time I opened the thread

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Mala Malcolm or bbt please

vote johnny or go away

johnny isn't going through today...choose someone else among the three actual wagons

no thank you < 3

i want johnny gone try asking gamma if ur serious abt this CUZ IM NOT MOVING
THIS IS DEADASS A COPY PASTE OF THE MININORMAL YOU CLOWN

What do you think of mala and BBT?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Can you explain why you think Johnny is a doc?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

CSF's voting history is really bad if anyone cares for that sort of thing.

Rad, stop suggesting me. Thanks.

What votes are bad?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I might as well lay it out though. Drap calling Johnny a doctor makes me think he has too much info because I have a protective role and claimed to have one to Johnny early. I said I protected Drap after the Bella flip. There's a paranoid part of me that Johnny and Drap have been discussing these things in a Mafia PT, leading to Drap calling Johnny a doctor in this thread.

Hmm, i thought BBT was softing doc, that's why I named him my less preferred lim today the last time I opened the thread

where was this because you were pretty hard on voting bbt early this week....

12517

"Health"

[Cat Scratch Fever]

CSF's voting history is really bad if anyone cares for that sort of thing.

Rad, stop suggesting me. Thanks.

What votes are bad?

So many.

Such as...

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Can you explain why you think Johnny is a doc?

Johnny is town end of discussion.


Who do I think the team is?

You/Best Bird/BBT

That doesn't inspire confidence, sorry

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Johnny

[Cat Scratch Fever]

the resistance to ALL of the wagons is absurd, but you are starting from basically scratch (haha) here vs. two viable wagons with a potential third.

I don't particularly like either of the main wagons. What am I to do? Happy to move to Malcolm. I could also put my vote back on BBT i guess.

But you said this after my post CSF?

You can still be scum softing something to avoid an elim? Whereas I think mala is town

Regardless, i moved my vote off of you in 12546.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Right, but now you're saying I'm town and don't want to elim me. So what changed?

Mala wasnt doing as much as I remembered

Im still not sure you're town. Shrug emoji

[Cat Scratch Fever]

You're not sure I'm town but are now willing to vote Malcolm, Johnny, and Mala before me? Even though you were town reading Mala?

You're making 0 sense

Yeah, my reads changed... I looked at mala's iso and she wasn't pushing anyone as hard as i remembered. I still think she might be town, but balancing risk vs read- the risk of mislimming or outing a town doc is probably worse than mislimming a town coroner

I've been willing to vote Johnny since like forever and had my doubts about Malcolm too. So idk why that's weird to you

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Let's see if it does get support.

If not, I'll join a consensus wagon.

CSF's voting history this game has been shocking and these past few pages have made no sense at all from a town!CSF perspective.

How is it shocking???

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Why else would i unvote you, BBT?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

It's weird because you're acting like you saw my soft and used that as reasoning for unvoting me and not wanting to elim me even though you said you would still vote me afterwards which probably means you were told in your scum PT about my soft and have tried to use that reasoning retroactively when it just doesn't fit with your play

I was still willing to revote you because you can still be scum ugh. If im wrong, it wasn't worth the risk over voting Johnny who is almost certainly not a doctor atp

[Cat Scratch Fever]

You're not sure I'm town but are now willing to vote Malcolm, Johnny, and Mala before me? Even though you were town reading Mala?

You're making 0 sense

Yeah, my reads changed... I looked at mala's iso and she wasn't pushing anyone as hard as i remembered. I still think she might be town, but balancing risk vs read- the risk of mislimming or outing a town doc is probably worse than mislimming a town coroner

I've been willing to vote Johnny since like forever and had my doubts about Malcolm too. So idk why that's weird to you

So why did you out BBT’s either soft or more probable more likely attempt to bait the nk?

I started to doubt he was actually a doc after tbones claim

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Why would you still say you would be open to voting me?

By saying you would still be open to voting me then this would imply that you did not in fact see my soft and were told about it afterwards, no?

Why else would i unvote you in the first place if I hadn't see a soft?


All you've done since I voted you is say useless things like "I'm town, you're silly for voting me". What other reason do i even bave to unvote you and reconsider?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

It's weird because you're acting like you saw my soft and used that as reasoning for unvoting me and not wanting to elim me even though you said you would still vote me afterwards which probably means you were told in your scum PT about my soft and have tried to use that reasoning retroactively when it just doesn't fit with your play

I was still willing to revote you because you can still be scum ugh. If im wrong, it wasn't worth the risk over voting Johnny who is almost certainly not a doctor atp

Nobody should have been thinking he was doc anyway because there has only been one person ever mentioning it and they had no evidence whatsoever to back it up. So like, wtf?

I mean, sure, i've been trying to vote Johnny most of the day

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Why else would i unvote you in the first place if I hadn't see a soft?

All you've done since I voted you is say useless things like "I'm town, you're silly for voting me". What other reason do i even bave to unvote you and reconsider?

Thread flow? One of my loudest pushers (Butterflies) changed their vote off of me and onto Mala, Rad was also posting in thread at the time saying I was town. Tone of thread was changing again in terms of a BBT elim not looking likely.

Not long after, you move off of me and onto Johnny. You realise the wagon is losing steam and start to look elsewhere.

Fair. Not what happened though.

I will outline my thought process one last time:

A) i saw a doctor soft

B) decided i wasn't confident in you flipping scum enough to justify pushing up to a claim given the soft so moved to johnny. you can still be scum in spite of the soft but it seemed like an issue best left for a later day.

C) people complained about my vote and asked me to pick a compromise wagon out of Malcolm, you, mala (the order of my preferences)

D) looked at mala's iso during break, i felt like maybe i gave her too much town cred for her anger, and she wasn't doing as much solving as I remembered

[Cat Scratch Fever]

If scum, you probably aren't even a doctor? @bbt

[Cat Scratch Fever]

If scum, you probably aren't even a doctor? @bbt

Or a backup or something. Either way, that's not something that's going to make me townread you, especially when I wasnt 100% sure it was even a soft

Pedit: you didn't soft you were jack zzz

[Cat Scratch Fever]

You seemed sure when you outed it CSF

Bro i was explaining my thought process because someone

asked

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm ana Lucia novice jk

I jailkeopt BBT n2 because he was my second scumread after Johnny, who i was hoping would be vigged lol

N3 and n4 i jailkept butterchurn bc i wasn't that confident in my scumreads and used it defensively. I crumbed my n3 target since there was no kill that night and thought maybe a doc would be on drapion, so i can protect elsewhere to not rb him

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'll link my crumb later. Kind of driving rn

Oh yeah i also jailkeopt butterchurn bc he claimed mason so it's unlikely he would have another role on top of that so i wouldn't RB an active role

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Novice

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Can't act night 1

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Probably not, I meant more in terms of like why

you

and not Luke or Pooky or whatever

Could be. I think scum would doc!hint but my role means it’s not cut and dry. So if there is the possibility I’d like town to have more pieces of the full picture.

I guess i don't see why scum would target you

over a mason or something

But i agree with the general idea that scum probably didn't target drapion last night to avoid collision with a town protective

Probably not, I meant more in terms of like why

you

and not Luke or Pooky or whatever

Could be. I think scum would doc!hint but my role means it’s not cut and dry. So if there is the possibility I’d like town to have more pieces of the full picture.

I guess i don't see why scum would target you

over butterchurn or something

But i agree with the general idea that scum probably didn't target drapion last night to avoid collision with a town protective

So how do you account for the no kill then? This is why I think OfH should check Bella because it looked like she might have been informed about doc.

I changed the text in the bolded bit

This conversation was talking about the missing night kill, so I thought this was a good place to leave a crumb

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: mala

I'm actually feeling this now bc I feel like mala should be able to recognize that I'm town here and really disliked her vote on me. She's seen me be very awkward and frozen as scum

VOTE: mala

[Cat Scratch Fever]

The episode for the novice modifier is the other 48 days

And also mala is claiming scum have both a RB (math) and a macho doc (Bella). Jk is just both combined so it'd be a bit redundant for scum to have all 3

[Cat Scratch Fever]

The episode for the novice modifier is the other 48 days

And also mala is claiming scum have both a RB (math) and a macho doc (Bella). Jk is just both combined so it'd be a bit redundant for scum to have all 3

Math fits as rb since Drap was blocked n1 and BBT’s role fits with Bella being scum macho doc.

What’s the third? There’s only 2 flipped scum?

Jailkeeper... I claimed Jailkeeper. I'm saying it's somewhat unlikely to give scum both a RB/doc and a Jailkeeper

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Drapion is such a fuckin enigma man. I thought they were using me as nk bait and I didn't wanna out TBone, but i'm super not Doc and super confused about why they thought so. On top of that, now that they know I'm not Doc, they're still insisting I'm town which is honestly disturbing because I don't get townread often, not even when at my towniest.

Drapion isn't getting limmed today anyway. Do you believe my claim?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Spoiler:

If y'all insist for the damn spreadsheet... (honest question, can you post a spreadsheet?)

Town:
Corwinoid
Rad
Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9)
--
JohnnyFarrar
T-Bone
--

Null

Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Taly Toogeloo
PookyTheMagicalBear
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
Galron
Cephrir
Roden
Dwlee99
Klick
Dunnstral
Lukewarm
PenguinPower
Bellaphant

--
BlueBloodedToffee
The toad

Frogsterking
Enchant
Bell
--
Scum
Malakittens

Annoying me on a personal level for pushing me do this
Cat Scratch Fever humaneatingmonkey

Null on CSF so far, honestly[/b]

Weird read on CSF.

I was pushing Corwin to produce a list of reads for the spreadsheet. Good to know that next time someone complains about taking 30s to make a list of names, they're probably just scum.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Is anyone down to vote MisLim?

Maybe? Kind of forgot they existed tbh. It's worth rereading Day 2 with the perspective of town!BBT at least, because iirc, Mislim pushed BBT in favor of Math

But that reread will have to be after I play some Three Hopes

[Cat Scratch Fever]

[Cat Scratch Fever]

[quote="In post 10925

Ana Lucia, a literal LAPD officer, in the show.

@CSF isn’t that your flavour?

yup.

hence jailkeeper

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I jailkept Johnny last night

[Cat Scratch Fever]

How is bbt outed?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Off the hook did you guys use your night action?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Yeah, i thought they said they were going to use it last night though

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Have you managed to gain any reads from what you have read?

I sus Best Bird, still undecided on Pooky/Rad but it's the kind of thing where I'll probably land one way or the other. JohnnyFarrar is individually sus and seems to have partner equity with a few people. I'm just gonna townread Professor and Butterflies.

I still need to get up to speed with all the claims to form proper reads but this is from what I saw so far on D6.

Why is best bird scum?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Well Malcolm, looks like both scum!Malcolm and scum!Rad defenses here are wifom based, and the most straight forward reality is option 3. Let's consider it indeed.

As I've said I'd be willing to compromise on Mala given the state of play, just unsure we'll actually find scum there.

Probably best to yeah.

VOTE: Malakittens

Why did you never move your vote from mala after this? Multiple alternate wagons cropped up after this.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

johnny

(also happy birthday bestie)

Who else can be scum?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I was a wagon, and you were scumreading me.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Sorry catching up. Given my thoughts previous day I'm largely back to Rad - feels like the second time Rad has latched onto an easyish elimination target who wasn't necessarily too high activity to save their own skin and look like they were being reasonable by being willing to compromise.

Fair enough, the wagon built and dissolved quickly. But why is rad scummy for compromising when you do the same thing?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I believed BBT was town and little has changed that since. I believe Johnny is very likely town and wasn't interested in going there either

I kind of think your Johnny read is incoherent

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Outlined beforehand I liked the possibility of a CSF/Bella team, their interactions with each other felt like it could check out as scum teammates -

some soft TR's

with the occasional null read thrown in there just to create a little bit of distance.

I don't think this is true. Bella was not soft TR'ing me aside from early day 1.

Beyond that I don't think CSF's pushes have been great as of late and feel like they could be coming from scum trying to defend teammates and implicate other players I read as town. Is is not interesting, eg, that Cat continually pushes Johnny, who I think is looking really townie, and then as the day wears on a whole bunch of votes start to pile onto Johnny again?

If your whole reason for thinking Johnny is town is that "Bella kind of pushed Johnny as scum," then why is Mala ever a better vote here? Mala was (a) actually voted by Bella and (b) pushed by Corwin as his only scumread

This question is not really to you, but more to the peanut gallery, but I legitimately don't get it

Perhaps you don't think Mala has done enough to prove she's town, but what on earth has Johnny done either????

My primary reason for switching on Johnny was the Math/Johnny interactions for the most part. Don't believe they can be paired.

Beyond that I think Johnny's pushes have been solid this turn and we're agreeing on quite a bit now. Maybe a risk I'm getting pocketed but I think it's much more likely Johnny is also town and our views are just aligning on lots of things.

Out of interest, who else do you reckon is scum other than Johnny? I liked the case on Johnny early game but struggling to see it following

Math's

elimination.

How does Math's elimination rule out Johnny?

Sorry I'm getting confused on who suspected who re scum. Math wasn't really pro-eliminating Johnny - Bella/Johnny was a different story. 10685 outlined why. Maybe it's possible I could be underestimating the amount of SvS stuff we've been seeing though? Some of Johnny's more recent posts don't fill me with confidence but I'm also aware I'm struggle to tonally townread them when they post which could be influencing where I'm at.

No, it was bella...

I feel like you struggle to remember why you townread Johnny.

And furthermore, your townread was voting for me and you never seemed keen to join him.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I've stated several times Johnny's interactions with scum didn't strike me as aligned.

This is the confusing bit in 13377
Not to mention vague... Why were Bella's interactions not clearing for mala but clearing for Johnny?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Also, if I'm scum, what's my motive for suddenly going from scum to town on Johnny?

Scum have to fake progressions

And some louder players like Luke and RcEnigma were townreading Johnny from the bella flip, so it's not unreasonable for scum to drop their push

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Do you think Malcolm is making up a read on Johnny and do you think it TMI’s Johnny an alignment? Do you think it’s NAI but just a really wolfy made up read?

Yeah I think it's made up? That's the whole point of my posts on this page...

If you look at why Malcolm townreads Johnny, he says it's:

1. because Bella pushed Johnny

2. later, he says MathBlade's interactions cleared Johnny (then further amends this by saying he confused Bella with MathBlade, which is plausible... this is a long game)

>>> 3. I ask why Malcolm is voting Mala on day 5 when Bella pushed Mala equally as hard as Johnny - shouldn't that be equally clearing from Malcolm's perspective due to point #1? <<< This is in 12230

where I repeated the exact reason Malcolm originally townread Johnny

(i.e. point #1).

4. in response to 3, Malcolm says he's actually tr'ing Johnny b/c of his interactions with *MathBlade*, not Bella. Somehow he forgot why he townread Johnny in spite of me spelling it out for him in the post he's responding to.

5. I point out the contradiction in #1 and #4 - the idea was to see if Malcolm evaluates his Mala read and radio silence. Instead, Malcolm leaves his vote on Mala who flipped town.

6. Now he's saying something vague like Johnny is town because of interactions with flipped scum. Why??? What interactions???? And why do I consistently find it easier to remember Malcolm's own reads than he does???

[Cat Scratch Fever]

6. Now he's saying something vague like Johnny is town because of interactions with flipped scum. Why??? What interactions???? And why do I consistently find it easier to remember Malcolm's own reads than he does???

I'll follow this up by saying it's easy to forget some small things in a 500+ game with 26p.

It's NOT as easy for town to forget why your scumread on someone changed to a townread. That's what made the progression feel made up.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Do you think Malcolm is making up a read on Johnny and do you think it TMI’s Johnny an alignment? Do you think it’s NAI but just a really wolfy made up read?

Yeah I think it's made up? That's the whole point of my posts on this page...

If you look at why Malcolm townreads Johnny, he says it's:

1. because Bella pushed Johnny

Spoiler:

I disagree that she really pushed Johnny. Shaded yes but not really pushed. She never once voted for Johnny.

She also often brought up mala when she shaded Johnny, which makes me think she was trying to tie a partner to town.

As someone who's suspected Johnny for most of the game I think they're more likely to be town on the basis of Bella's posts.

The reads aren't consistently incredibly strong and they're definitely hedgy at times but I think it can be argued in retrospect a lot of Bella's play was coming from hedgy scum. In a game of this size, I don't think it's tactically wise to have down your "main" scumread as a teammate, especially when it's a teammate who is susceptible to suspicion as Johnny has been for plenty of the game so far. I'll do some ISO checks to make sure but moving Johnny more into my town-pile for now.

2. later, he says MathBlade's interactions cleared Johnny (then further amends this in 11363 by saying he confused Bella with MathBlade, which is plausible... this is a long game)

>>> 3. I ask why Malcolm is voting Mala on day 5 when Bella pushed Mala equally as hard as Johnny - shouldn't that be equally clearing from Malcolm's perspective due to point #1? <<< This is in 12230

where I repeated the exact reason Malcolm originally townread Johnny

(i.e. point #1).

Spoiler:

Outlined beforehand I liked the possibility of a CSF/Bella team, their interactions with each other felt like it could check out as scum teammates -

some soft TR's

with the occasional null read thrown in there just to create a little bit of distance.

I don't think this is true. Bella was not soft TR'ing me aside from early day 1.

Beyond that I don't think CSF's pushes have been great as of late and feel like they could be coming from scum trying to defend teammates and implicate other players I read as town. Is is not interesting, eg, that Cat continually pushes Johnny, who I think is looking really townie, and then as the day wears on a whole bunch of votes start to pile onto Johnny again?

If your whole reason for thinking Johnny is town is that "Bella kind of pushed Johnny as scum," then why is Mala ever a better vote here? Mala was (a) actually voted by Bella and (b) pushed by Corwin as his only scumread

This question is not really to you, but more to the peanut gallery, but I legitimately don't get it

Perhaps you don't think Mala has done enough to prove she's town, but what on earth has Johnny done either????

4. in response to 3, Malcolm says he's actually tr'ing Johnny b/c of his interactions with *MathBlade*, not Bella. Somehow he forgot why he townread Johnny in spite of me spelling it out for him in the post he's responding to.

Spoiler:

Outlined beforehand I liked the possibility of a CSF/Bella team, their interactions with each other felt like it could check out as scum teammates -

some soft TR's

with the occasional null read thrown in there just to create a little bit of distance.

I don't think this is true. Bella was not soft TR'ing me aside from early day 1.

Beyond that I don't think CSF's pushes have been great as of late and feel like they could be coming from scum trying to defend teammates and implicate other players I read as town. Is is not interesting, eg, that Cat continually pushes Johnny, who I think is looking really townie, and then as the day wears on a whole bunch of votes start to pile onto Johnny again?

If your whole reason for thinking Johnny is town is that "Bella kind of pushed Johnny as scum," then why is Mala ever a better vote here? Mala was (a) actually voted by Bella and (b) pushed by Corwin as his only scumread

This question is not really to you, but more to the peanut gallery, but I legitimately don't get it

Perhaps you don't think Mala has done enough to prove she's town, but what on earth has Johnny done either????

My primary reason for switching on Johnny was the Math/Johnny interactions for the most part. Don't believe they can be paired.

Beyond that I think Johnny's pushes have been solid this turn and we're agreeing on quite a bit now. Maybe a risk I'm getting pocketed but I think it's much more likely Johnny is also town and our views are just aligning on lots of things.

5. I point out the contradiction in #1 and #4 - the idea was to see if Malcolm evaluates his Mala read and radio silence. Instead, Malcolm leaves his vote on Mala who flipped town.

Spoiler:

Out of interest, who else do you reckon is scum other than Johnny? I liked the case on Johnny early game but struggling to see it following

Math's

elimination.

How does Math's elimination rule out Johnny?

Sorry I'm getting confused on who suspected who re scum. Math wasn't really pro-eliminating Johnny - Bella/Johnny was a different story. 10685 outlined why. Maybe it's possible I could be underestimating the amount of SvS stuff we've been seeing though? Some of Johnny's more recent posts don't fill me with confidence but I'm also aware I'm struggle to tonally townread them when they post which could be influencing where I'm at.

No, it was bella...

6. Now he's saying something vague like Johnny is town because of interactions with flipped scum. Why??? What interactions???? And why do I consistently find it easier to remember Malcolm's own reads than he does???

Added some posts

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Malcolm

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Hey CSF...you read Luke's thoughts on Rad that I posted a few pages back

I think the first point ("can talking to dead ppl be a scum role or not") is decent, since there's some contradiction in what rad is saying (I actually noticed the same thing too when I ISO'd Rad yesterDay). But in 340, he also says it "initially sounds like a townie type of power" so I dunno

It is certainly possible that Rad used the Mala TR to attack Luke in a reachy manner, but I'm not sure if that's scummy or a side effect of early game scumreads being inherently reachy

[Cat Scratch Fever]

That's somehwat what I wanted to hear. Did you think his 11505 was a good response given your 11500?

I thought it was possible he is town here, and just forgot he had this thought earlier because this game is very long

but that post didn't sway my read on him because what else can you say as scum

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Don't like what?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Sadge

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Hey! I take issue with that characterization

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Do you think Malcolm is making up a read on Johnny and do you think it TMI’s Johnny an alignment? Do you think it’s NAI but just a really wolfy made up read?

Yeah I think it's made up? That's the whole point of my posts on this page...

If you look at why Malcolm townreads Johnny, he says it's:

1. because Bella pushed Johnny

Spoiler:

I disagree that she really pushed Johnny. Shaded yes but not really pushed. She never once voted for Johnny.

She also often brought up mala when she shaded Johnny, which makes me think she was trying to tie a partner to town.

As someone who's suspected Johnny for most of the game I think they're more likely to be town on the basis of Bella's posts.

The reads aren't consistently incredibly strong and they're definitely hedgy at times but I think it can be argued in retrospect a lot of Bella's play was coming from hedgy scum. In a game of this size, I don't think it's tactically wise to have down your "main" scumread as a teammate, especially when it's a teammate who is susceptible to suspicion as Johnny has been for plenty of the game so far. I'll do some ISO checks to make sure but moving Johnny more into my town-pile for now.

2. later, he says MathBlade's interactions cleared Johnny (then further amends this in 11363 by saying he confused Bella with MathBlade, which is plausible... this is a long game)

>>> 3. I ask why Malcolm is voting Mala on day 5 when Bella pushed Mala equally as hard as Johnny - shouldn't that be equally clearing from Malcolm's perspective due to point #1? <<< This is in 12230

where I repeated the exact reason Malcolm originally townread Johnny

(i.e. point #1).

Spoiler:

Outlined beforehand I liked the possibility of a CSF/Bella team, their interactions with each other felt like it could check out as scum teammates -

some soft TR's

with the occasional null read thrown in there just to create a little bit of distance.

I don't think this is true. Bella was not soft TR'ing me aside from early day 1.

Beyond that I don't think CSF's pushes have been great as of late and feel like they could be coming from scum trying to defend teammates and implicate other players I read as town. Is is not interesting, eg, that Cat continually pushes Johnny, who I think is looking really townie, and then as the day wears on a whole bunch of votes start to pile onto Johnny again?

If your whole reason for thinking Johnny is town is that "Bella kind of pushed Johnny as scum," then why is Mala ever a better vote here? Mala was (a) actually voted by Bella and (b) pushed by Corwin as his only scumread

This question is not really to you, but more to the peanut gallery, but I legitimately don't get it

Perhaps you don't think Mala has done enough to prove she's town, but what on earth has Johnny done either????

4. in response to 3, Malcolm says he's actually tr'ing Johnny b/c of his interactions with *MathBlade*, not Bella. Somehow he forgot why he townread Johnny in spite of me spelling it out for him in the post he's responding to.

Spoiler:

Outlined beforehand I liked the possibility of a CSF/Bella team, their interactions with each other felt like it could check out as scum teammates -

some soft TR's

with the occasional null read thrown in there just to create a little bit of distance.

I don't think this is true. Bella was not soft TR'ing me aside from early day 1.

Beyond that I don't think CSF's pushes have been great as of late and feel like they could be coming from scum trying to defend teammates and implicate other players I read as town. Is is not interesting, eg, that Cat continually pushes Johnny, who I think is looking really townie, and then as the day wears on a whole bunch of votes start to pile onto Johnny again?

If your whole reason for thinking Johnny is town is that "Bella kind of pushed Johnny as scum," then why is Mala ever a better vote here? Mala was (a) actually voted by Bella and (b) pushed by Corwin as his only scumread

This question is not really to you, but more to the peanut gallery, but I legitimately don't get it

Perhaps you don't think Mala has done enough to prove she's town, but what on earth has Johnny done either????

My primary reason for switching on Johnny was the Math/Johnny interactions for the most part. Don't believe they can be paired.

Beyond that I think Johnny's pushes have been solid this turn and we're agreeing on quite a bit now. Maybe a risk I'm getting pocketed but I think it's much more likely Johnny is also town and our views are just aligning on lots of things.

5. I point out the contradiction in #1 and #4 - the idea was to see if Malcolm evaluates his Mala read and radio silence. Instead, Malcolm leaves his vote on Mala who flipped town.

Spoiler:

Out of interest, who else do you reckon is scum other than Johnny? I liked the case on Johnny early game but struggling to see it following

Math's

elimination.

How does Math's elimination rule out Johnny?

Sorry I'm getting confused on who suspected who re scum. Math wasn't really pro-eliminating Johnny - Bella/Johnny was a different story. 10685 outlined why. Maybe it's possible I could be underestimating the amount of SvS stuff we've been seeing though? Some of Johnny's more recent posts don't fill me with confidence but I'm also aware I'm struggle to tonally townread them when they post which could be influencing where I'm at.

No, it was bella...

6. Now he's saying something vague like Johnny is town because of interactions with flipped scum. Why??? What interactions???? And why do I consistently find it easier to remember Malcolm's own reads than he does???

Added some posts

6. Now he's saying something vague like Johnny is town because of interactions with flipped scum. Why??? What interactions???? And why do I consistently find it easier to remember Malcolm's own reads than he does???

I'll follow this up by saying it's easy to forget some small things in a 500+ game with 26p.

It's NOT as easy for town to forget why your scumread on someone changed to a townread. That's what made the progression feel made up.

What do you think of this post, Cytosine?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

maybe johnny is scum but I'm not voting out of malcolm or rad today
it was supposed to be between those two yesterday until mala wagon suddenly happened.
theres still 3 wolves left and these guys SRed each other since early on
if masons tracker and cop are all town then theres a huge chance 1 of these guys are scum based on associations

VOTE: Malcolm

I agree with this

[Cat Scratch Fever]

OtH should for sure use their ability tonight regardless of who we kill off today.

Also people voting me, expect your "I'm no fun at parties" certificate in the mail soon

Where can I file a request for one of these certificates

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Johnny did tbone full claim his role in the hood?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Yeah I guess there's no reason to hide it anymore. Bonesy was Charlie, and his role was doctor-ish, but it had some modifiers. He was a little cryptic about it and faked part of the claim at one point in order to catch me if I was scum, but evidently I passed his test and he told me (I think) the truth.

Wdym by doctorish and what were the modifiers? I don't think it hurts to reveal this atp

[Cat Scratch Fever]

this game is such a meme

This game gives and takes

But mostly it just takes

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Cytosine what do you think of 13487?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

You're right that is confusing lmao

+1 to coroner on tbone

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Oh wait, he was probably bodyguard, right

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think wagon dynamics today strongly suggest one of Malcolm or Mala is scum.
~Cytosine

What changed from this?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Marci, who else is scum besides Johnny?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Malcolm and Rad wagons are neck and neck

there's no reason for a scum!Malcolm to give up and stop posting.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

i typerd it and it disappeared into the void

i think whoever replace rce
i think that slot has high likelihood

also maybe pooky <.<

Some spicy takes! Why?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I have engaged with this and I believe CSF's case re Johnny is fairly inaccurate. What's my motivation to sort Johnny as town if I'm scum anyway? It'd have been a useful place for me to continue pushing along with Rad given there's been pressure remaining on that slot if I was scum, no?

What is inaccurate about 13392?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

It's funny that people think Johnny is townier than Rad and Malcolm.

If they're both town, which seems likely, it's no wonder there is no noise anywhere else.

Do you think all the wagons we ran up yesterday were on town? I think it's unlikely, no?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

6. Now he's saying something vague like Johnny is town because of interactions with flipped scum. Why??? What interactions???? And why do I consistently find it easier to remember Malcolm's own reads than he does???

I'll follow this up by saying it's easy to forget some small things in a 500+ game with 26p.

It's NOT as easy for town to forget why your scumread on someone changed to a townread. That's what made the progression feel made up.

I scumread you because you've forgotten the reason why you began townreading Johnny, which makes that read look unnatural

please take another look at 13392 because my read is not really conditioned on a Johnny scumread. Although i kind of still think he is scum

[Cat Scratch Fever]

It's funny that people think Johnny is townier than Rad and Malcolm.

If they're both town, which seems likely, it's no wonder there is no noise anywhere else.

Do you think all the wagons we ran up yesterday were on town? I think it's unlikely, no?

All wagons we ran up in D1 were on town. Someone said that was unlikely then, too, if I remember right.

Why couldn't it be the same here?

We ran up math day 1 though

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Sorry I need to prod dodge. This weekend has been a vicious cycle of drinking and hangovers, and it's caught up to me.

On a cursory skim, i would lend my support to a Johnny or a c&g wagon.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I jailkept Malcolm

Should there be a public announcement from off the hook's role?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Could scum have targeted the person I protected?

I don't see Malcolm being killed but a JK on them isn't a slam dunk scum claim.

Who did you protect?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

yall we forgot to do our na

LOL I WAS TOO BUSY IM SORRY ITLL HAPPEN TONIGHT

VOTE: malcolm
i think csf jailing him and there being no kill is pretty damning.

VOTE: OtH

Yeah that's a real bruh moment

But still, i doubt scum tried to kill drapion last night since he's the obvious doc target

[Cat Scratch Fever]

yall we forgot to do our na

LOL I WAS TOO BUSY IM SORRY ITLL HAPPEN TONIGHT

VOTE: malcolm
i think csf jailing him and there being no kill is pretty damning.

VOTE: OtH

Yeah that's a real bruh moment

But still, i doubt scum tried to kill drapion last night since he's the obvious doc target

so then did they kill malcolm..?

How does that follow?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

why would we die..? we're obv sus because of a promise we didnt follow thru with.. why would scum wanna kill us?

Cute

Yeah that's a real bruh moment

But still, i doubt scum tried to kill drapion last night since he's the obvious doc target

I think I had choices outside of Drap and made that clear by asking Butterflies for 3 potential targets. I don't think it was a foregone conclusion that I would protect Drap at all.

Again, I highly doubt Malcolm is sent out for a kill when he gained so much attention yesterday and was known to be the counter wagon to a town wagon. If Malcolm is scum, it's incredibly risky sending him to kill.

Maybe other two scum have night actions or something, I'm not sure. It doesn't seem that unlikely to me

I was told to jailkeep within a bunch of targets and Malcolm wasn't one of them

[Cat Scratch Fever]

CSF should probably jk OtH, BB, one of the masons, Pooky.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

CSF, why is Malcolm likely to be sent to do the kill?

Remaining scum aren't goons

Scum think I'd be on Johnny again

[Cat Scratch Fever]

CSF, why is Malcolm likely to be sent to do the kill?

Remaining scum aren't goons

Scum think I'd be on Johnny again

Also i don't think that's the right question to ask

Why is sending Malcolm to do a kill less likely than scum killing an obvious doc target?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Johnny who should I track tonight?
Give me 3 Names.

7. Daychat and multitasking are in effect.

Consider adding Off the Hook to your list of possible track targets imo, because I can't jailkeep them tonight. Since scum are multitasking, they can use their NA and do the NK.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I jailkept c&g

[Cat Scratch Fever]

yeah pooky town, mislim town

Still kinda want to vote c&g tbh

I also think Off the Hook can be scum too

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I didn't eliminate anyone I had less than say 90% confidence in. I still think it's quite possible you bus-tracked Bella.

By the same reasoning, I could've bus-jailkept Malcolm, no?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: C&G

[Cat Scratch Fever]

yeah pooky town, mislim town

Still kinda want to vote c&g tbh

I also think Off the Hook can be scum too

OtH is town. Like I’ve never seen Gamma play scum like this and Marci has been as genuine af.

Marci's defense of Malcolm on day 6 didn't make much sense to me. Malcolm shaded most of the playerlist, except he was very uncritical of OtH (townread them early day 1 and then never reconsidered/barely mentioned them). It didn't seem like a pocket either, since Malcolm barely interacted with them.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

csf should claim who they will target in case we get scum today
if it's town then feel free to pick anyone

Happy to do furtive if consensus veers that way.

I prefer OtH gets tracked though, since I feel like those interactions with Malcolm really don't look good. Drapion, what do you think?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

csf should claim who they will target in case we get scum today
if it's town then feel free to pick anyone

Happy to do furtive if consensus veers that way.

I prefer OtH gets tracked though, since I feel like those interactions with Malcolm really don't look good. Drapion, what do you think?

I’d say you should Roleblock them since I think they can just be town and I’ll track someone else.

Sure.

Though this plan is only if we flip scum today.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Johnny have you already full claimed?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Spoiler:

We're at 11 town : 2 scum, which means we have 4 wrong eliminations remaining. That means that a correct townbloc of 7 results in victory.

Roden and I are 2, which makes things easier. Only need 5 more. CSF and Drapion seem very likely to be town based on night actions; I don't think there's any reason to doubt them at this point. Both are roles that scum cannot risk leaving alive any longer just for the sake of paranoia, so they will be sorted by kills. butterflies can be town by play. We need two more. The way that flipped scum played around the Taly vs Cephrir gladiate does not feel to me like Taly was scum or that they had any interest in saving a teammate there. So I would feel reasonably confident in placing Yeet in the bloc as well. For the final member, I would probably put Mislim Bait as one of the candidates, based on the Malcolm push and on some of Klick's interactions with Bella. I know Drapion wants Johnny, but I'm not confident enough in that. butterflies wants OtH, I'm also not confident enough in that. Pooky maybe, I have a townread there but not enough to treat them as clear. I believe that Best Bird is town, but I understand some others aren't sure on that.

So, the main candidates for elimination should be, in my opinion:
- furtiveglance
- Cytosine and Guanine

Followed by:
- JohnnyFarrar
- Off the Hook

And if the game is still going at that point, we need to find one town among:
- Best Bird
- Mislim Bait
- PookyTheMagicalBear

Obviously if any name higher up on this list can clear themselves somehow, then that also works.

How does everyone feel about this? Most importantly, does anyone disagree on Yeet and butterflies as town?

I'm ok with the four names in the PoE... I was one of the people that hard townread RCEnigma off of meta. I still don't really scumread them, but I understand there's not much clearing for them.

p-edit: I believe Best Bird relayed that Luke was Walt with his Medium ability, and Malcolm "confirmed" it. Of course this doesn't matter if Best Bird is also scum, but I don't think he is.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

OTH is the one who role revealed Malcolm, right? If so they're most likely town as well.

Yes they were. Though they were explicitly asked to.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

OTH is the one who role revealed Malcolm, right? If so they're most likely town as well.

Yes they were. Though they were explicitly asked to.

Asked by Best Bird

Spoiler:

@OtH - Luke says you should target Rad on a scumflip (obviously) or T-bone if Rad flips town.

Noted
Btw

Cat Scratch Fever

pls don't JK us tonight since idk if that'll waste the ability

~GE

This stays the same except replace Rad with Malcolm. Scum flip, you’re on Malcolm. Town flip, you’re on T-bone. If you “forget” again, I will tunnel you for eternity.

The "Luke is Walt" conversation:

Spoiler:

What was one of the first things Luke talked about to Malcolm?

He doesn't have access any longer, but he is almost certain the the first posts were asking whether or not Malcolm had seen Lost and stating he hoped Malcolm was town because he didn't relish the thought of spending the game with scum in a PT.

Not sure how this helps you, but there you go.

Hey Malcolm...can you confirm this? And also that after Luke made this post:

Am looking for my Dad

VOTE: Pooky

Father?

So as I have just been laying here thinking about this game, I realized that if I leave this as is, since we don't actually flip in this game it might actually cause issues if I die night 1.

I don't actually need to find my dad.

That's all I really want to say on the matter

he told you it was his gift to you, you responded that you were confused, and he explained that he made that post because if he died N1 he hadn't claimed and he didn't want you to have any issues due to your flavor?

Yep I've not seen Lost hence I forgot that detail - my flavour is Michael, Luke's was Walt.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I get the feeling scum were terrified of Luke

Pooky had claimed an inno on Luke

He was never getting limmed before Pooky, and if Pooky were to flip town (which is very likely), Luke wasn't getting limmed anyway.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

He was never getting limmed before Pooky, and if Pooky were to flip town (which is very likely), Luke wasn't getting limmed anyway.

Which is why I think Pooky is town by the way.... If Pooky ever flipped scum, a Luke mislim was still possible.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Anyone have problems with the PoE in 14365? Otherwise Im happy to end the day

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: furtive

Sleep tight!

I'm on off the hook if this flips scum.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Thank you save the dragons and catboi for modding!

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Next time I’ll jailkeep Better!

except I won't but yeah