Warrior Cats Mafia [Game Over!]

[Freedom]

I feel like it implicates penguinpower so heavily that it makes me think that's not what's going on.

Why Penguin?

[Freedom]

What exactly is your claim Bear?

I think that it was Sorreltail; a Cop.

[Freedom]

What exactly is your claim Bear?

I think that it was Sorreltail; a Cop.

did you at any point make bear a warrior?

We did on D3.

[Freedom]

Could he always or was he warriored?

We warriored him D3.

[Freedom]

Bear, how do we know that you are telling the truth?

[Freedom]

Bear, how do we know that you are telling the truth?

I'M A FUCKING COP

I trust your claim but I've seen investigatives fake guilties on their SRs.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though.

[Freedom]

Bear, how do we know that you are telling the truth?

I'M A FUCKING COP

I trust your claim but I've seen investigatives fake guilties on their SRs.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though.

I'VE NEVER LET A DAY END WHERE MY NIGHT ACTIONS AS A TPR WERE LEFT UNCLEAR. I DID REACTION TEST DATISI BUT I CRUMBED THAT I WASN'T BEING STRAIGHTFORWARD BY BOLDING

TAIL

. I AM NOT REACTION TESTING MATHBLADE, AND I DID INDEED RECEIVE A REPORT FROM THE MOD LAST NIGHT WHICH SPECIFIED MATHBLADE IS ALIGNED WITH THE DARK FOREST.

MY THEORY AS TO THE LAST TWO ARE TOOGLEOO + MISTYX.

I see.

[Freedom]

You know what.
VOTE: Math
If Bear's lying, we can speed lim him tommorow.

[Freedom]

I don't see why claiming Leader is LAMIST.

[Freedom]

Unless you're talking about the part on Wind being pure.

[Freedom]

Unless you're talking about the part on Wind being pure.

MORE SO THE EXTRA DETAILS IN IT, YEAH.

YOU'RE NOT FEELING TOOGLE!SCUM?

I'm unsure.
They had voted Math to be warriored before switching to Misty.

[Freedom]

If you're not lying about Math, I don't get why scum!Toog would do that.

[Freedom]

If you're not lying about Math, I don't get why scum!Toog would do that.

...UHH TO GIVE HIS TEAM PRs?

I see.
Though, they were on the verge of moving off Math before your claim.
If they were scum, they probably wouldn't have known that Math was going to get guiltied.

[Freedom]

Did any of you know that Misty was activated D4?
I feel like scum were probably told because I don't think Enchant makes sense as a NK otherwise.

[Freedom]

Oh. I see.
I told my Clan that you were getting a PR because I was feeling good about them.

[Freedom]

Oh. I see.
I told my Clan that you were getting a PR because I was feeling good about them.

then why did you ask whether or not anyone knew it?

Because I wanted to know if Dann or Toog told their Clans.
If only my Clan knew, that means that either I was wrong on them or Dann/Toog contains at least 1 scum.

[Freedom]

I think I will be eliminated this game and I can't say I would blame you

Why?
What makes you say this?

[Freedom]

alright im done being dramatic fire visited enchant

VOTE: fire

[Freedom]

alright im done being dramatic fire visited enchant

VOTE: fire

you didn't activate fire d1, right?

Let me check; though I'm pretty sure that Charloux did.
(Which I can't understand.)

[Freedom]

By the way, why Toog over Dann or somebody else?
Isn't three scum in Wind a bit too much?

[Freedom]

alright im done being dramatic fire visited enchant

VOTE: fire

you didn't activate fire d1, right?

Let me check; though I'm pretty sure that Charloux did.
(Which I can't understand.)

I checked.
Charloux started the votes on fire which was followed by everybody but Norwee.

[Freedom]

My iso

Looks fine to me.
Did I miss something?

[Freedom]

By the way, any opposition to S_S getting a PR.

[Freedom]

By the way, any opposition to S_S getting a PR?

EBWOP

[Freedom]

So you're saying that town!Misty is lying?
That feels odd given that Misty didn't seem to SR you before.

[Freedom]

Dann, do you still SR S_S?

[Freedom]

By the way, any opposition to S_S getting a PR.

I mean, yes? How the hell are you guys picking these.

Idk really.
I think that we've been giving out a ceremony to half of anybody who wants one.

[Freedom]

I forget which a slot boy next door is but maybe that one

That's Val.
flow is catboi.

[Freedom]

the "which i cant understand" is what pings me here

I don't see what's wrong with that.
I genuinely can't understand why Charloux nominated fire.
Was fire acting Town in D1 or something?
I literally didn't read that part of the game.

[Freedom]

...how are you expecting to understand it if you haven't read the game?????

I was making assumptions.

[Freedom]

Because I isoed fire and their posts didn't ping me as AI.

[Freedom]

Because I isoed fire and their posts didn't ping me as AI.

Was fire acting Town in D1 or something?
I literally didn't read that part of the game.

Bro what

Is it wrong for me to think that Charloux should be giving PRs to Town rather than null?

[Freedom]

There isn't a contradiction.
I didn't read D1 as a whole but I had skimmed a ISO of fire and it seemed NAI.

[Freedom]

There isn't a contradiction.
I didn't read D1 as a whole but I had skimmed a ISO of fire and it seemed NAI.

then why do you have to ask if he was acting town or not.

Because I was wondering what Charloux saw in fire that prompted thay nomination.

[Freedom]

@mod

Prod flow and bnd

[Freedom]

Why S_S?
He seemed fine to me.

[Freedom]

But, why not bnd then?

[Freedom]

But, why not bnd then?

Though, to be clear, I think that bnd has a high chance of being Town because 3 scum in one Clan feels like overkill.

[Freedom]

Freedom, thaereasoning that a bunch of scum can't all be in the same clan doesn't work. Unless Ydra intentionally spread the scum out into different clans. One coin flip doesn't effect the the next coin flip.
Etc, etc, yada, yada.

I see.

[Freedom]

TBH I would like S_S to contribute more.

[Freedom]

S_S, where are you rn in terms of reads?
On a reread of your iso, you feel like you're present but doing little.

[Freedom]

I haven't a goddamn clue, we've had so many short days and replacements.

Assuming this day actually makes it to Monday, I'll do some reading then.

Then, based of what you've read, where are you at?
Because you've felt less proactive this game compared to the S_S that I know who usually makes all those shrewd statements.
It feels at odd with both your towngame and scumgame.

[Freedom]

I haven't a goddamn clue, we've had so many short days and replacements.

Assuming this day actually makes it to Monday, I'll do some reading then.

Then, based of what you've read, where are you at?
Because you've felt less proactive this game compared to the S_S that I know who usually makes all those shrewd statements.
It feels at odd with both your towngame and scumgame.

Correction: It feels at odd with my knowledge of your towngame and scumgame.

[Freedom]

Then, based of what you've read, where are you at?

Everyone null except for Bear is town? Idk when I said I need to read to remember what's going on, I meant it.

I guess the leaders are probably +town because whoever was the mason died when the watcher was active.

I see.
Though, why does the Mason dying while Misty was active make Leaders +Town?

[Freedom]

Why?

[Freedom]

I see.

[Freedom]

bear pls were you targeted by me

+1

[Freedom]

By the way, S_S's last posts feel odd coming from scum.
I don't get why scum!S_S who thinks Enchant is getting targeted allows his partner fire to target Enchant.
But then, maybe S_S is saying this because he is trying to sound like he's too smart to allow for a Enchant NK.

[Freedom]

Ceph.
What is your opinion of Bear's vote on S_S?

[Freedom]

Also, what is your opinion of Penguin's 4425?
It feels a bit odd that his first assumption was that Bear had a guilty when Bear never said that.
In opposition, when Bear pushed Math, he mentioned Math being a guilty.

[Freedom]

@mod

Prod Toog and Dann.

[Freedom]

Sure is odd I assumed that the cop who was supposed to be recharged and said “it’s over” was voting a guilty.

Yep. Sure is odd.

I'm pretty sure being recharged doesn't mean they can act the same night.
At least, Datisi never said that Bear being recharged = Bear can get a guilty on the same night.
P-Edit: Basically what S_S is saying.

[Freedom]

You think he got a guilty with the shot that Datisi recharged him with?

I mean - prs in this game are already gated (sometimes doubly so!) so I don’t see how that was unreasonable to think but ok.

The first part isn't unreasonable imo.
Though, I feel like S_S is making a good point that you're assuming Datisi's action resolves before Bear's and allows for him to immediately get another shot upon recharge.

[Freedom]

You think he got a guilty with the shot that Datisi recharged him with?

I mean - prs in this game are already gated (sometimes doubly so!) so I don’t see how that was unreasonable to think but ok.

The first part isn't unreasonable imo.
Though, I feel like S_S is making a good point that you're assuming Datisi's action resolves before Bear's and allows for him to immediately get another shot upon recharge.

You realize you just contradicted yourself? Right?

I don't see it.
I think that it isn't unreasonable that you think PRs are gated but I don't think the same for the rest.

[Freedom]

Which is why I'm trying to say that apart from the facts, your theory seems odd to me.

[Freedom]

Ceph.
What is your opinion of Bear's vote on S_S?

i was just waiting for a clarification. i read it as probably a reaction test but wasn't saying so for obvious reasons, but now it's out there so w/e

I see.
That's close to my interpretation and why I was upset with Penguin acting like it was an actual guilty, rather than a possible reaction test or just Bear voting a SR.

Also, what is your opinion of Penguin's 4425?
It feels a bit odd that his first assumption was that Bear had a guilty when Bear never said that.
In opposition, when Bear pushed Math, he mentioned Math being a guilty.

i figured he was playing along with the reaction test but if he did think it was a guilty for some reason i would not be terribly fussed about it

Why?
I don't get why Penguin would go to such lengths playing along with a reaction test.
His 4460 is over the line if he didn't actually believe in the guilty.

[Freedom]

His 4460 is over the line if he didn't actually believe in the guilty.

:shrug: okay so maybe he believed it. so what?

He didn't have to post that to get his point across.
He said that I had no brain.

if anything i expect scum to be paying more attention to the mechanics

You're probably right about this.
Scum would probably want to be more careful so they don't stand out.

[Freedom]

He said that I had no brain.

I don't understand why you expect me to care about this

You don't but Penguin didn't have to say it to get his point across if he was just playing along.
It feels like he either overdid his act or actually believed there was a guilty.

[Freedom]

let's see, who is in wind clan and can read it to tell me who alisae's partners are.

ah, i see. boy next door and toogeloo.

guess i can throw that line of inquiry straight in the garbage.

i skimmed the first page of alisae's iso. it did not tell me much of anything and i did not enjoy it

What was the purpose behind this post?

[Freedom]

let's see, who is in wind clan and can read it to tell me who alisae's partners are.

ah, i see. boy next door and toogeloo.

guess i can throw that line of inquiry straight in the garbage.

i skimmed the first page of alisae's iso. it did not tell me much of anything and i did not enjoy it

What was the purpose behind this post?

are you of all people really trying to come at me about pointless posts

im showing my thought process because i am town even when it doesnt amount to anything. if you don't like that i do not care

why are you determined to interact with me specifically

I'm not trying to attack you.
I was just wondering why you posted that, given that you didn't seem to like it when I posted my thought proccesses.
As for why I'm determined to interact with you, it's because I wasn't so sure on my read of you before but your latest posts make me think that you're most likely Town.

[Freedom]

VOTE: boy next door

policy. i don't think this slot is scum

Good idea.
He hasn't contributed much and unlike S_S, doesn't seem to be planning to.
VOTE: bnd

[Freedom]

VOTE: BELL

IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE EVERYONE'S THEORIES ABOUT MY NIGHT ACTION WERE CORRECT. IT'S TRUE DATISI'S ABILITY ISN'T WHY I COULD SHOOT LAST NIGHT, WHOEVER SAID I WAS REACTION TESTING WAS CORRECT, AND WHOEVER THOUGHT I MIGHT HAVE A REAL GUILTY WAS CORRECT.

Wait…
Are you claiming a guilty or is this another reaction test?

[Freedom]

Well, that's fair.
From my prospective he's literally lying.
From your perspective he's literally lying or you're town and don't know.

What do you think Bear benefits from lying that you're scum if you're actually Town?
I feel conflicted rn because all of a sudden, Bear is now saying in our PT that you and Datisi are scum.
Just a while ago, he had literally encouraged me to give Datisi the ceremony.
This makes no sense for Bear to do this sort of thing as either alignment.

[Freedom]

Freedom appears to be trying to appear guileless. How much mafia have you played?

4 games on this account.
Why do you ask?

[Freedom]

I'm not sure if you're outsourcing reading between the lines to others because you prefer doing that or if you just don't really care what the bear thinks and are just hedging.

It's the former because I want to see your opinion because due to me sharing a Clan with Bear, I have read more of his thought processes and they feel genuine.

[Freedom]

I think the bear doesn’t know who the scum are and is trying to figure out who the scum are. They’re currently incorrect.
I hope this helps you on your solving journey.

I feel like you could be right.
Though, I think that the guilty on Math was genuine.
Also, do you think that I should nominate Ceph for the ceremony?

[Freedom]

That is correct. I guess Frozen Angel didn't deliver the message to leader chat, but don't waste it on me. My role sucks.

I see.
FA didn't tell us that.

[Freedom]

God.
I feel like I should just nominate Bell for the ceremony at this point.

[Freedom]

I don't think that Datisi asking for a confirmation is AI though.
It could easily be Town wanting to know his action went through.

[Freedom]

I almost forgot that.
Hopefully, the fake guilty didn't derail his plans.
(At least, the fake guilty led to S_S contributing more.)

[Freedom]

(obligatory I don't want to read does anyone have the TLDR post)

This does not sound like town

Do you think that it looks LAMIST?

[Freedom]

(obligatory I don't want to read does anyone have the TLDR post)

Just to be nice, here's a five word summary of the past few days.
Many Guilties, Real and Fake

[Freedom]

i think [scrrdbear, dann,

FA

, val] are town
less strongly i think [

mastina

, bell,

misty

, maybe

titus

?] are town
and then lightly i lean town on [penguin, charloux,

alisae

, maybe catboi?]

i think im getting close to the point of d1 where i get tired of talking and i just want to yeet someone

VOTE:

marashu

could vote

kitty

ig if people strongly would rather do that but i prefer this

idk what to do with this I feel like maybe more relevant than any of the reads is the timing of this? let me go look at what the wagons were like here.

I would be a bit surprised if the top two rows were all town, even if fire has been somewhat notably making correct townreads.

By top two are you talking his TRs?

[Freedom]

Yes. {Bear, Dann, FA, Val} and {Mastina, Bell, Misty, Titus} are the rows in question, implying one scum in Bear, Dann, boy, Bell.

I think that Bear's play makes no sense as scum.
Bell feels all right.
Imho, I think that out of the four, it's more likely that it's between Dann and bnd.

[Freedom]

(obligatory I don't want to read does anyone have the TLDR post)

This does not sound like town

Do you think that it looks LAMIST?

Lamist means; look at me I’m so town.
Coming into the game and announcing they do not want to solve the puzzle after replacing in is almost the opposite of that.

I see.
My first impression of furtive's post was that he was trying to get people to TR him for wanting to help catch up and interact.
On a reread, it seems I missed the first part of his post.

[Freedom]

THIS IS FLEXING YOUR BOP-RANGE, FREEDOM, BUT I WILL TRY TO BE PATIENT.

LET ME BREAK IT DOWN FOR YOU:

TOWN SIDED REFRESHER:

DOESN'T CONTRIBUTE TO WIN CONDITION UNTIL MISTYX OR I GET AN EXTRA SHOT OFF AND COMMUNICATE TO THE HOOD/THREAD OUR RESULTS. REFRESHER FAILS TO ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING IF THE PLAYER THEY REFRESH IS KILLED BEFORE DELIVERING A RESULT. THEREFORE, YOU DON'T WANT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, THE THREAD TO KNOW WHETHER YOU DELIVERED A LIVE TARGET TO MISTYX OR SCCCRDBEAR, UNTIL THEY HAVE COMMUNICATED THEIR RESULTS.

SCUM SIDED REFRESHER:

DOESN'T CONTRIBUTE TO WIN CONDITION UNTIL THEY SAFELY (LIKE, THE TPR CAN BE KILLED BEFORE DELIVERING A REPORT WITH THE SHOT) REFRESH A POWERFUL TPR AND THE POWERFUL TPR COMMUNICATES TO THE THREAD THAT THE REFRESHER DID INDEED TARGET THEM. IF THE COP DIES BEFORE COMMUNICATING TO THE THREAD THAT DATISI TARGETED THEM, DATISI DOESN'T GET TOWN CREDIT FOR USING HIS ROLE.

I think that I get where you're coming from.
Though, I feel like Datisi could've just plainly wanted to make sure that his understanding of his role wasn't wrong.

[Freedom]

ah yes, because scum will totally gambit on you having no more shots (with or without my refreshment) and keep you, the only claimed investigative, alive and kill off some random target. and you confirming whether or not you've received my shot will totally have an influence on their part. yes, very good. excellent town play.

i mean - per you - you gave bear a delayed shot. The watcher was killed off meaning you could take out both before your recharge took effect and still get that sweet sweet towncred you so desire.

On the other hand, I think that this is a good point.
(And imo, a better point in favour of scum!Datisi.)

[Freedom]

ah yes, because scum will totally gambit on you having no more shots (with or without my refreshment) and keep you, the only claimed investigative, alive and kill off some random target. and you confirming whether or not you've received my shot will totally have an influence on their part. yes, very good. excellent town play.

i mean - per you - you gave bear a delayed shot. The watcher was killed off meaning you could take out both before your recharge took effect and still get that sweet sweet towncred you so desire.

On the other hand, I think that this is a good point.
(And imo, a better point in favour of scum!Datisi.)

When used in conjunction with the fact that Datisi was asking Bear to confirm.

[Freedom]

oh should we not just flip PenguinPower and/or Freedom then, considering we haven't hit scum in thunderclan yet

We haven't hit scum in RiverClan, either.
Why are you not focusing on them?

[Freedom]

I said that because if Kitty was killed due to outing their role in their clan, then it must be because scum is in that clan

we haven't hit scum in Shadowclan either

I don't think there is at least one scum in each clan

Wasn't fire in your Clan though?
Or did I mess up the Clans?

[Freedom]

Though, if it's because of Kitty outing, then you should probably vote Penguin because he was rolefishing Bear last night.

[Freedom]

ok

why dont you vote penguin then

Because his posts in the main thread make me doubt if he's scum.
Though, if we have to vote in my Clan, VOTE: Penguin.
I still think that scum are in the lurkers (i.e. bnd and flow).

[Freedom]

HOW'S FURTIVE LOOKING IN ALL HIS PT'S?

ALL THREE OF THEM

Both Dann and him are ghosting me in the Gathering PT.
They're even going as far as not supporting my nomination of Bell.

[Freedom]

I still think that scum are in the lurkers (i.e. bnd and flow).

WHAT ABOUT FURTIVE?

Toog was OK in the Gathering PT so furtive gets the benefit of the doubt for that.

[Freedom]

you doubt i'm scum but vote me anyway...

okay...

Because Dann is insisting on voting between us.
On the other hand, seeing that we don't have to, I'll UNVOTE: Penguin.

[Freedom]

I have finished my catchup and flow is still randomly sheeping wagons. :/
VOTE: flow

[Freedom]

Hey Bear, you’re doing the sensitive to criticism that you can easily let pass or ignore given they don’t even have the context behind their remark thing. It only looked weird to them because they didn’t even know what the conclusion was and are clearly just shooting at the hip.
This ain’t a persecution.

ARE YOU AN ENABLER, BELL?

Didn't he claim Vig?

[Freedom]

you doubt i'm scum but vote me anyway...

okay...

Because Dann is insisting on voting between us.
On the other hand, seeing that we don't have to, I'll UNVOTE: Penguin.

im not insisting

I was just wondering why you weren't

you don't have to appease me

I misinterpreted you then.
You sounded pretty insistent to me.

[Freedom]

oh right freedom is in thunder

I thought it made sense because freedom was a leader

Weren't you pushing me because I was in Thunder, like half a day ago?

[Freedom]

oh right freedom is in thunder

I thought it made sense because freedom was a leader

Weren't you pushing me because I was in Thunder, like half a day ago?

yeah I cannot keep track of this game for the life of me

my brain went Oh okay BEAR is making sense so we should kill in the leaders

well who is the scummiest leader?

it's Freedom

skipping the fact that you were in Thunder

So, you're telling me that 4961 was a smokescreen?
You could've just said Freedom is the scummiest leader instead of making it me VS Penguin.

[Freedom]

im not scum

Then, why did you lie about not knowing that I was Thunder Leader?
You obviously knew that I was a Leader and that I was in Thunder.

[Freedom]

Oh, and I don't know if any prior slot owner said this, but I probably should never be powered up tbh

bnd never told us that and I don't remember it being brought up if Val did either.
I guess my choice to switch from nominating you to nominating Ceph to nominating Bell wasn't bad.
(Now that I know that both you and Ceph don't want to be powered up and that Bell is Vig.)
(To be clear, I nominated you because Toog wanted bnd to get a PR and nominated Ceph because I TRed him.)

[Freedom]

im not scum

Then, why did you lie about not knowing that I was Thunder Leader?
You obviously knew that I was a Leader and that I was in Thunder.

I didn't lie

I had a brain fart

again why would I do this intentionally when it's very easy to call me out on it

So, you're saying that in the span of less than one minute, you forgot that I was Thunder Leader?
Though, I don't think you intentionally lied.

[Freedom]

it's really not an enviable spot i'm in for a hypothetically long game. most players have figured out that i'm town but scum will never kill me because i'm useless and this uselessness becomes a self perpetuating cycle because i have to still be in the game. uselessness begets uselessness

You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.
I think that you're really fun to play with.

[Freedom]

Hmm, just skimmed freedoms iso in this game + a couple others, and I wonder if I just natrually scum read his posting style.

I still don't like several of his posts this day phase, but my scum read there has softened somewhat

Wouldn't be the first time this has happened.

[Freedom]

im not scum

Then, why did you lie about not knowing that I was Thunder Leader?
You obviously knew that I was a Leader and that I was in Thunder.

I didn't lie

I had a brain fart

again why would I do this intentionally when it's very easy to call me out on it

So, you're saying that in the span of less than one minute, you forgot that I was Thunder Leader?
Though, I don't think you intentionally lied.

Freedom, is undercutting most points you try to make a staple of your town game?

Because you are doing that a lot, and it looks a lot like hedging.

Sometimes it is.
Most of the time though, it's because I'm done distancing with a scum partner.
I'm trying to make my meta less day/night though lately (mainly because I won in NQN II playing similarly to my scumgame and lost Mini Normal 2276 using my old towngame).
But if you want to know, hedging is definitely Town-indicative for me as I tend to be confident and more insistent as scum.

[Freedom]

To be clear though, I wasn't trying to play close to my scumgame in NQN II.
I was just trying out a new playstyle that ended up similar to it.

[Freedom]

Bell.
Did you vig Penguin?

[Freedom]

Yep!

Why?

[Freedom]

Cephrir encouraged me to shoot there instead and I got sick and couldn't review the game. + Finals + backedup at work.

Excuses.

I see.
Did Ceph provide any reasons?

[Freedom]

Said he didn't like how the interactions with TItus went down.

Did he expand?
From a quick skim of Penguin's iso, he seemed pretty insistent on eliminating Titus.

[Freedom]

Nope.

Why didn't you ask him, then?

[Freedom]

Same reason I didn't reread the game myself. Too much crap to deal with.

I see.

[Freedom]

Well shoot.

Ceph.
What is your opinion on flow and Luke?
Based of what Bear, Penguin and Dann have said, I feel like we should be voting between them today.
(Bear was going to investigate Luke, which Penguin thought was a good check. Dann isn't a fan of Val's interactions with flipped scum.)
(Meanwhile, I asked Dann what flow had done in their Clan and he said that they only posted 4 times with only 1 being content. He thinks that flow shouldn't endgame.)

[Freedom]

And yeah.
After N6, I don't really SR Dann anymore because his content in our Gathering pt felt genuine.

[Freedom]

Alrighty it's time for the fun part, right? :3

Everyone actually gets to talk about who to vote, right?

Who is Luke?

Yes. We get to talk.
Luke's Lukewarm.
Anyways, can you explain why you didn't contribute to D6?

[Freedom]

And yeah.
After N6, I don't really SR Dann anymore because his content in our Gathering pt felt genuine.

Can you paraphrase what he said?

He was discussing his reads in the situation he gets Vigged and said that he thought that Luke had the highest chance of being scum.
I asked him to explain and he said that he didn't think Val was Town.
I asked what Val did and he said that Val's push didn't feel right to him.
I asked what flow did in their Clan and Dann said that flow had 4 posts, only 1 being content.
In most of his responses, they felt like he genuinely meant them.

[Freedom]

Is now a good time to mass claim?

Sure, it seems unlikely we have anything important still hidden?

I agree.

[Freedom]

Is now a good time to mass claim?

Did any of my predecessors claim?

Yes.
Everybody knew who the Leaders were at the time I replaced in.

[Freedom]

Furtive can claim last if they want.

I think that they should so that it's fair.

[Freedom]

By the way, will I claim my flavour as you already know my role?

[Freedom]

Got that.

[Freedom]

The ordering was also done with the intent to glean further information.
Cephrir and you are unlikely to flub a fake claim and I suspect danflorr heavily. So they should go first and after that I’m just looking for mistakes.

I was thinking about this and I feel like scum might've been provided fakeclaims, given a lot of Large Themes that I've seen seem to have provided them.

[Freedom]

The ordering was also done with the intent to glean further information.
Cephrir and you are unlikely to flub a fake claim and I suspect danflorr heavily. So they should go first and after that I’m just looking for mistakes.

I was thinking about this and I feel like scum might've been provided fakeclaims, given a lot of Large Themes that I've seen seem to have provided them.

Did any of the flipped scum fake claim prior to their deaths?

Did they look like provided fake claims?

(If no one has those answers for me by the tike I get off work tomorrow, I might just hunt down the answers myself lol)

fire pretended to be informed but I think that you could be right that no scum has fakeclaimed flavour yet.
I guess that I was being paranoid, then.
Though, it does seem weird that fire would fakeclaim Informed when his action involved a target.
He could've at least came up with a better fakeclaim.

[Freedom]

Dann, I think that Bell wants you to claim first.
(I think that a flavourclaim should be fine.)

[Freedom]

see 276 alisae (scum) vs val, doesn't read like scum v scum

alisae/norwee feels acted

Can you explain the last part?

[Freedom]

It feels NAI to me.
Though it depends on what was in their hood.
Luke, if you don't mind, can you tell us what Alisae had said to Norwee at the time 284 was posted?

[Freedom]

Guys,
quick question do I have to actually respond to Junko casing me or can I just let them continue to waste their time casing me.

You should just ignore them.
They're probably just scum hoping to get the Vig limmed so they don't have to NK you.
Though, their content makes me feel better than flow's.

[Freedom]

I just think I'm still well within my scum range and last time I was scum in a large I flaked out

I know it's not alignment indicative for me but I don't really expect everyone else to think that

I don't know I think I've been keeping a lot of thoughts to myself and slowplaying this game a lot so it's a little weird to me that I'm just flying under the radar

idk fire can you explain more what has been towny about me while I'm here? I feel like you would've reevaluated me by now

i think you keeping thoughts to yourself and slow playing is like exactly what i expect from you as town tho. that specifically was what i remember ari saying made you dangerous as town in turing test

you seem like you are clearly having thoughts under the hood and engaging with people when you want to

ive liked your gamestate observations and i think those are generally less likely to come from scum, at least out of nowhere

i liked your engagement with me earlier, felt pure and didn't give pockety vibes at all

idk i just haven't felt any reason to reevaluate on you since finding your d1 to be towny. i gave it some consideration after catboi's case but it wasn't really that convincing to me and then he later kinda took it back anyway

also tbh you being kinda missing lately does nothing to make me feel like you're more likely to be scum. id probably be more worried if it felt like you were trying to control things here, but ig it's true i don't really know how you like to play scum

why do you think i would have reevaluated you?

i want to throw this post out to the group do you have any thoughts about it

I feel like fire was making things up to justify a TR on Dann.
The interaction doesn't feel manufactured, though.

[Freedom]

basicly is a doctor

By this, are you claiming Doctor or a Doctor-like role?

[Freedom]

I guess I can go now.
I am Bluestar, Leader of ThunderClan.

[Freedom]

basicly is a doctor

By this, are you claiming Doctor or a Doctor-like role?

it's a doctor-like role there's something about it I think i shouldn't say tho

I see.
It's just that the Masons were also Doctors, though ungated.

[Freedom]

VOTE: Junkochan

I can't disagree with your reasoning.
It does look like Junko was being selective in their catchup and only commented on posts that supported an agenda.
VOTE: Junko

[Freedom]

Cephrir: Nothing would please me more than to depart this mortal plane.
Also Cephrir: Don't kill me. oh my god you suck.

Do you SR Ceph?

[Freedom]

Or freedom, who followed me?

I don't think you are scum, i don't think Freedom is scum, You didn't even read my posts...

Uh.
Can you explain your TR on me using something other than that one post from Charloux?

[Freedom]

Or freedom, who followed me?

I don't think you are scum, i don't think Freedom is scum, You didn't even read my posts...

Uh.
Can you explain your TR on me using something other than that one post from Charloux?

I haven't reach the point where you rep in and I don't have the will power to get there if all I'm going to get is Junko is "pointing at specific stuff" no shit sherlock, you want me to quote every single thing from the last 200 pages or to catch up fast?, like luke said I didnt pay attention to the fact that there's 4 people alive from that mastina vote ok then what? one of them could be mafia yes.. what am I saying? I sorted all 4 of them

I said I think val89 looks town therefore luke is town
I said norwee looks town therefore furtive is town
I said Bell looks town
I pointed dann could be mafia

and about charloux I was null until I got to that post and i think it would be weird for charloux to go, yeah "let's not kill T3 who looks awful at that point, let's wagon alisae!"

I see.

[Freedom]

Don't vote JunkoChan, vote with us cool people on Dannflor

Do you TR Junko?

[Freedom]

Or do you SR Dann?

[Freedom]

Don't vote JunkoChan, vote with us cool people on Dannflor

Do you TR Junko?

Yes, fairly strongly. I'm surprised they have even 2 votes.

Then, why aren't you voting them for a ceremony?
I'm literallly the only one nominating anyone. (Though it's Luke because he claimed Neighborizer and I want to be in a hood.)

[Freedom]

Or do you SR Dann?

Less so, just voting with Bell who I think is mechanically Town. Also happy to vote Cephrir

Can you explain the Ceph SR?

[Freedom]

Or is he just a compromise?

[Freedom]

Would strongly suggest no longer giving anyone powers at this point.
Based on the claims no benefit could come of it and you're more likely to give a buff to scum than town.

Can you explain this?
I feel like Luke's role has no real benefit to scum unless he wants to pocket people.
Ceph, as scum, can confirm himself. (I see no point why this will help scum.)
Junko, as scum, can prevent any further Vig shots. (Though, since you already shot Penguin, this is useless.)
S_S, as scum, can prevent Town from doing things on odd Nights.
So, as long as we don't activate Junko and S_S, we have no reason to fear scum gets buffed.

[Freedom]

Correction: As long as we don't give S_S a PR, there is no reason to worry scum gets buffed.
(Because, I forgot that Junko has a useless role if they're scum.)

[Freedom]

Would strongly suggest no longer giving anyone powers at this point.
Based on the claims no benefit could come of it and you're more likely to give a buff to scum than town.

Can you explain this?
I feel like Luke's role has no real benefit to scum unless he wants to pocket people.
Ceph, as scum, can confirm himself. (I see no point why this will help scum.)
Junko, as scum, can prevent any further Vig shots. (Though, since you already shot Penguin, this is useless.)
S_S, as scum, can prevent Town from doing things on odd Nights.
So, as long as we don't activate Junko and S_S, we have no reason to fear scum gets buffed.

You are assuming that me and ceph are telling the truth in this post, while Bell is hedging against the possibility of one of us secretly being a Super Powerful Scum Role.

I guess that you could be right but only fire ever fakeclaimed and both you and Ceph can have your role confirmed if we can eliminate scum today.
Junko could be fakeclaiming though as they can just choose not to kill and pretend to have saved somebody.

[Freedom]

So, I guess that maybe we just don't give ceremonies until one scum is left and then we give you and Ceph powers.
Then, nobody gets powers afterwards.
Does this sound like a good plan?
(Assuming, scum doesn't go and NK both you and Ceph. Or I have bad reads.)

[Freedom]

Would strongly suggest no longer giving anyone powers at this point.
Based on the claims no benefit could come of it and you're more likely to give a buff to scum than town.

Can you explain this?
I feel like Luke's role has no real benefit to scum unless he wants to pocket people.
Ceph, as scum, can confirm himself. (I see no point why this will help scum.)
Junko, as scum, can prevent any further Vig shots. (Though, since you already shot Penguin, this is useless.)
S_S, as scum, can prevent Town from doing things on odd Nights.
So, as long as we don't activate Junko and S_S, we have no reason to fear scum gets buffed.

You are assuming that me and ceph are telling the truth in this post, while Bell is hedging against the possibility of one of us secretly being a Super Powerful Scum Role.

I guess that you could be right but only fire ever fakeclaimed and both you and Ceph can have your role confirmed if we can eliminate scum today.
Junko could be fakeclaiming though as they can just choose not to kill and pretend to have saved somebody.

With us being this close to Melo, not giving me or ceph a power is probably smart.

Something like a scum!Vig could actually cost us the game, and there if very little benefit for either of us acting.

Spoiler:

We are currently at 2v6, if we miselim today then tomorrow is Melo.
Over night me/ceph claim that we targeted who ever night killed, so our ability can't be proven. "sad"
Tomorrow we No Kill to get from Melo -> Elo

Scum normal night kill plus scum vig = we lose when we thought we were safe to go to Elo

Yes that seems incredibly unlikely, but also, there is not really a positive for activating either of us that I can think of

I see.
I did overlook the fact that as scum, you and Ceph could just target the NK.

[Freedom]

So, I guess that maybe we just don't give ceremonies until one scum is left and then we give you and Ceph powers.
Then, nobody gets powers afterwards.
Does this sound like a good plan?
(Assuming, scum doesn't go and NK both you and Ceph. Or I have bad reads.)

If either of us had useful abilities, it would probably be worth considering activating us.

But like... neither of us actually do anything lol

You could sort people that you neighborize. (At least, I would if I was you.)
I agree that Ceph does nothing but confirm that he is trueclaiming, though.

[Freedom]

Based on the scum flips we have so far it's likely that their abilities benefit their team more constructively than the current claims.

As for responding in full, I'm just considering it. It feels slightly odd that you're including that because you don't think A and B are partners and you feel that B is more likely to be scum that we should kill B.
But I don't really understand why you're presenting that they don't appear to be aligned at all currently It feels unnecessary.

Is the last part addressed to me?

[Freedom]

That said, I'm actually okay with killing Junko First. Because I am insane.

On the contrary, I'll be fine with Dann/S_S being a compromise wagon as Luke's posts during this Day feels solvey and nuanced. Meanwhile, on a reread, it makes sense for Dann to comment on Val's posting specifically as a means for SRing Luke. And Dann hasn't been doing much in the main thread, so he's back to null. I'm still lingering on that TR on Ceph but it's not as strong.

[Freedom]

So, I guess that maybe we just don't give ceremonies until one scum is left and then we give you and Ceph powers.
Then, nobody gets powers afterwards.
Does this sound like a good plan?
(Assuming, scum doesn't go and NK both you and Ceph. Or I have bad reads.)

If either of us had useful abilities, it would probably be worth considering activating us.

But like... neither of us actually do anything lol

SS is the only potentially useful role and the only one we should consider activating but im not that convinced he's town

still, if something town was blocked it would out him so??

It won't as for similar reasons on what Luke said you could do as scum, S_S could block the NK.
So, after what Luke said, maybe Bell is right and it's best we just stop giving PRs.

[Freedom]

@SS and @Ceph

Do yall actually have Opinions on who we should be killing today?

i am Struggling

Then, to make it easier, who do you want dead more, Junko or Dann?

[Freedom]

i should have asked bell to vig me

Why?

[Freedom]

so i wouldn't have to make any decisions

You could just sheep Bell if you want.
Though, I think that Junko's a better elimination because her catchup felt like she had an agenda.

[Freedom]

so i wouldn't have to make any decisions

You could just sheep Bell if you want.
Though, I think that Junko's a better elimination because her catchup felt like she had an agenda.

-it's back to being happy
-comes to the thread to see what happened
-reads "junko had an agenda"
-goes back to play pokemon

if this is what you think an agenda is idk what to tell you man

I was talking about your catchup not your general ISO.

[Freedom]

I mean you spent some parts of your ISO talking about your catchup.
By the way, what is your read on Dann, again?
And who you want to kill today?

[Freedom]

I see.
Why aren't you voting Dann, then?

[Freedom]

Ceph, what is your opinion of Junko?

[Freedom]

i am gently leaning town on catboi at this moment but that's subject to change on a dime

i know you didn't ask about catboi

I see.
What gave you that impression?

[Freedom]

i'm not sure i know how to solve while assuming mafia have given up. if they have i think it's you lol

I agree.
I think that if this is supposed to be why Ceph is scum, furtive is being hypocritical.

[Freedom]

i'm not sure i know how to solve while assuming mafia have given up. if they have i think it's you lol

I agree.
I think that if this is supposed to be why Ceph is scum, then furtive is being hypocritical.

EBWOP

[Freedom]

Being salty about not being given the warrior ceremony yesterday.

If it makes you feel better, furtive didn't support the nomination of Luke.

[Freedom]

VOTE: furtive

E-1

[Freedom]

i still kinda think, irrespective, we should do SS' warrior ceremony and try to go into d10 f3

Sure.

[Freedom]

@Everyone

Can everyone please take a moment to tell me your thoughts, given this set up, if it makes more or less sense for there to be scum in the council?

It makes sense to me as I feel like it makes sense to give scum a way to know who are the TPRs, regardless if they claim or not.

[Freedom]

not feeling scum!SS rn

What changed between here and 5429 and 5445?
I setiously don't get how you go from voting S_S to suddenly going 'not feeling scum!S_S'.
VOTE: the worst

[Freedom]

so one weird role is still alive but SS' feels bizarrely overpowered

how is my role overpowered? it's pretty weak while there's more than one scum alive

the worst was probably talking about right now as with only one scum left, as if no NK happens, you could claim that the person who you targeted is scum.

[Freedom]

Well yes it's powerful now. But I assume the "weirdly" part meant he didn't think it fit in the setup? But it's really not stronger than e.g. a one-shot cop.

It's also worth noting that, if I'm scum, this claim could have backfired if I had been promoted last night. I would have been forced to clear someone.

I see.
TBH I don't trust the worst's strategy as he seems to not know that you claimed Odd-Night and thus, his plan is more likely going to help scum then Town.
Literally, the only thing that scum is forced to do is to NK you N8 before you can Roleblock them.

[Freedom]

not feeling scum!SS rn

What changed between here and 5429 and 5445?
I setiously don't get how you go from voting S_S to suddenly going 'not feeling scum!S_S'.
VOTE: the worst

i voted SS as an artistic statement then re-voted furtive
then re-voted SS as a placeholder because i was asked to move my vote

I see.
Then, what was your read on S_S?

[Freedom]

probably town?? but i could see him being scum
god help us all

I see.

what's your read on him, where are you at?

I feel like he's Town as I feel like scum already has enough powerful PRs.

[Freedom]

Odd-Night Roleblocker may not be overpowered but it's quite powerful in scum hands in that it could counteract Town Investigatives.
By the way, I think S_S is trueclaiming as I don't see him lying about being a RB as either alignment.
Though, the worst, why did you miss the part that S_S was gated?

[Freedom]

In fact, I think that's scum's plan, whoever they are. I was already considering suggesting this, but I think it makes even more sense the more I think about it-- I would like people to commit to limming me either today, or not at all. Because scum are going to be incentivized to push on me pretty hard tomorrow, or else they have to effectively dodge an extra lim.

Did you not read the worst's strategy?
He literally told scum to NK you by giving you a ceremony today.
He's literally trying to get rid of you while pretending that he doesn't.

[Freedom]

what did i miss?

what are your other reads

You didn't seem to realise S_S claimed Odd-Night when you made that pro-scum strategy.
You literally were telling Town to throw and give scum (from what should be your POV) two free NKs.

---

For my other reads, I TR Luke because of his play, which feels pro-Town to me.
I think that you're scum who is trying to get rid of S_S while pretending you don't.
Ceph and furtive are null but willing to vote between them if I'm wrong on you.
Especially, furtive because of the possibility that one Leader is scum.

[Freedom]

Sad.

So we want to no kill, or are we doing this shit today?

I don't mind either.
I had thought that it was 3p earlier; hence, my insistance that we eliminate.
However, given 4p, we're at MELO, meaning that if we have any confident SRs, no-lim would be an all right option.

[Freedom]

Wait.
Luke, I just realised that there's a flaw to your plan.
I'll talk more about it in our hood.
(Assuming that the hood is still remaining, because Ydra didn't lock it.)

[Freedom]

furtive, can you expand on what you dislike?

[Freedom]

furtive, can you expand on what you dislike?

I refuse

I prefer not to speak

I see.
Why?
Do you worry that scum can find a breaking strategy against Luke's plan?
I ran a few through Luke and he said that I don't understand mech.
He then explained his plan again and it feels like the only potential problem is if scum is the one who is given the chance to conftown themselves and they take advantage of Luke's plan.

[Freedom]

And you don't have to reply in this thread.
You could tell Luke and he could tell me.

[Freedom]

If we are not going to do the elim today, then we should probably no elim by end of day tomorrow at the latest

Got that.

[Freedom]

@freedom, did either you or furtive vote to give ceph the warrior ceremony?

I haven't voted for anybody today so no.

[Freedom]

So, who do you want to conftown, Ceph?

[Freedom]

luke. i think his solving has a lot of value, i want to see it, and i think i'm not going to eliminate him anyway regardless

i guess val could be more theater but i dont think it is

I see.
So, we can proceed with Luke's plan, right?
(Mainly involves putting furtive on E-1 and Luke not hammering, conftowning him.)

[Freedom]

luke. i think his solving has a lot of value, i want to see it, and i think i'm not going to eliminate him anyway regardless

i guess val could be more theater but i dont think it is

I see.
So, we can proceed with Luke's plan, right?
(Mainly involves putting furtive on E-1 and Luke not hammering, conftowning him.)

FREEDOM HOW ARE YOU SO BLASÉ ABOUT THE WHOLE GAME BEING ON THE LINE

Because I trust Luke to be Town and because I have a way of using Luke's plan to catch scum.
I told Luke about it.

[Freedom]

I prefer we solve today personally.

So freedom, if you are down for this, then you can vote furtive.

I'll be around for a little while to confirm.

I'm down for it.
VOTE: furtive

[Freedom]

You guys can unvote now, while we solve.

I was holding off talking reads until we decided, but we can start doing that now.

OK.
UNVOTE: furtive

[Freedom]

furtive, would you still want to no-lim if we conftown another slot?

[Freedom]

I'd rather let him call it basically

I don't really plan on strong arming the whole thing.

I want us to collectively choose 1 more player to confirm town. Then me and that player decide between. The last two.

@everyone

Please make a case for who you think should be cleared out of the 3 of you

After thinking about what you said in the hood, it would be safest fmpov to conftown me as I know that I am Town.

[Freedom]

TBH I kinda find Ceph's hesitation townish.

[Freedom]

TBH I kinda find Ceph's hesitation townish.

D_D

Do you disagree?
Like this could totally be scum!Ceph trying to buy time, but then, why?

[Freedom]

TBH I kinda find Ceph's hesitation townish.

D_D

Do you disagree?
Like this could totally be scum!Ceph trying to buy time, but then, why?

For the purposes of looking Town? That is a big scum motivation in a social deduction game

I see.

[Freedom]

i forget who's in thunderclan but i still kind of think being in thunderclan is sus

i know i already said i was going to stop asking questions about kittytacky's death but consider that shut up

I'm ThunderClan Leader in case you forgot.
furtive is the WindClan Leader.

[Freedom]

why do you think kittytacky is dead

I think that Bear was right that scum knew that Kitty was a PR but not a Tracker as he claimed in the Clan PT.
Also, Bear claimed Cop the Night that Kitty was NKed in our PT. A Cop is more dangerous than a Tracker and scum who knew that he was Cop, would've NKed him.
Thus, it's most likely that scum found out that Kitty was a PR, and NKed him for it.

[Freedom]

Ceph, what is your read on furtive?

[Freedom]

I was going to do that next but I'm not sure I have time tonight

I see.
I still feel like his opposition to conftowning his TR was weird.

[Freedom]

I'm sorry, Luke.
VOTE: Luke

[Freedom]

@mod

Luke is hammered.

[Freedom]

@freedom

The way you played the junko bus was VERY clean imo. Good job man

Thanks!
I think that it was just fortunate that I hopped on the wagon early.

[Freedom]

GG!
TBH I was going to push for a scum!Ceph narrative multiple times but I ended up giving up on it because pushing on a scum!ducky world was better.
Though, I genuinely think that S_S shouldn't have gotten activated on an even Day, as it greatly reduced the usefulness of his role and effectively left Town defenceless and the game a lot easier to win for scum.

[Freedom]

GG!
TBH I was going to push for a scum!Ceph narrative multiple times but I ended up giving up on it because pushing on a scum!ducky world was better.
Though, I genuinely think that S_S shouldn't have gotten activated on an even Day, as it greatly reduced the usefulness of his role and effectively left Town defenceless and the game a lot easier to win for scum.

i did think your thoughts around my suggestion to give SS a warrior ceremony felt informed. i wish i'd pushed that harder. :p

well played.

Thanks!

[Freedom]

Though, I genuinely think that S_S shouldn't have gotten activated on an even Day, as it greatly reduced the usefulness of his role and effectively left Town defenceless and the game a lot easier to win for scum.

It would have been right for you to kill me even if I hadn't been activated on D8. Because I obviously would have been on D9.

Yeah.
That's true.
So, really, your chances of survival to endgame would've been close to zero after the massclaim.

[Freedom]

Yeah. And I was fine with that. I was obviously pretty lost, and it took me off the table as an elo mislim.

True.
Though, honestly, I think that I got lucky that the massclaim happened as you almost got a PR instead of Luke.
The massclaim effectively let me know who to give a PR to and when it would be the best for me to.

[Freedom]

grats freedom

Thanks!

[Freedom]

i accidentally added t3 to the dead thread

Has the dead thread been released?

I think so.