Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[KatyKimFanClub]

Hey everyone,

Reading over stuff now.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I notice a lot of talk about finding trustworthy people to put in the Nightmare. I would like to say that I am town, thus feel free to put me in there, coach(es).

[KatyKimFanClub]

As long as our reads are +EV (and we probably aren't winning in a format like this if they aren't) I feel like finding a subset (exactly seven probably) of players in the game to do the nightmare is going to be better than the whole roster. This day is like 14 days long and if we want everyone in there to talk about things we should just do that during daytime. Separating the population and then seeing the results of that separation is informative.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Haven't played a game with this many people before. I have some initial thoughts written out but hopefully I can make a list of reads (with a top 7) tomorrow.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Dragon played this way in Newbie 2125 and rolled scum.

[KatyKimFanClub]

11 is funny. At least I thought so first when reading and then in 285 usesPython decides they wanted 7 people? Shouldn't this thought have come immediately or at least during the discussion of inventions?

Don't like Abnegation game start such as 28.

I don't get all the people saying it's town!dragon. Any links to read where he does this as town? In fact, 43 and 47 seems like a specific evolution of this trope to make him look towny. Not really a scumread but more of a at this point.

I like Ranger's chain of logic in 97.

Did previous game have cult? Maybe the name of the cult is the same from both games.

Mechanics talk seems +town. I like 215.

Why doesn't Titus want to use pick invention Night 1 in 255? What is a better alternative?

I think usesPython is town.

HURT: KKFC, usesPython, Radical Rat, Ranger, Rautherdir, Morning Tweet, biancospino

VOTE: WhemeStar

[KatyKimFanClub]

I think KKFC is town

Just a general vibes thing?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Random idea:

We ask every player to name 7 people for their nightmare tonight. We add up the results and the seven most voted people do it.

Positives:
A lot of information for future nights
Generally townread people get put in

Negatives:
Scum working with more information than town?

[KatyKimFanClub]

We could also pick who to IC during the day?

[KatyKimFanClub]

They have more information on who to put into the nightmare.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I was confused about that too. I don't think it's possible under the way people were talking about it for a player to be confirmed for a nightmare without at least four/six other people being confirmed?

[KatyKimFanClub]

In which case I would encourage a lot of people voting for literally everyone to unvote.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Lurking out cuz wasnt prepared mentally to read another large game HAD I ROLLED SK again maybe I am not hurt by the "mid takes" comments I already forgot them don't worry. The way im being read and described by dragon/sheep here feels right

Katy, why'd you put me in the Nightmare of all people?

I liked first line of 150.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Also you're not cult leader?

[KatyKimFanClub]

HEAL: Rautherdir

[KatyKimFanClub]

god dangit ranger i was hopign i could post before you put katyon a readlist because before that we both had python as our top townread but u went and goofed it up

VOTE: katykim

also hi caught up

cool

[KatyKimFanClub]

Will WhemeStar post anything meaningful today?

WhemeStar needs more votes.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Random idea:

We ask every player to name 7 people for their nightmare tonight. We add up the results and the seven most voted people do it.

Positives:
A lot of information for future nights
Generally townread people get put in

Negatives:
Scum working with more information than town?

We have that already with hurt tags...

I didn't understand the voting system for Nightmare properly

[KatyKimFanClub]

I notice a lot of talk about finding trustworthy people to put in the Nightmare. I would like to say that I am town, thus feel free to put me in there, coach(es).

Yuck.

I like we were are on the same page Titus, a whole lotta yuck here.

Was just trying to have a fun intro into the game as a replacement (also it would be nice to be in the Nightmare sort of like how it was fun to be picked on the dodgeball team in 5th grade)

---

Why does Ranger think I'm the most towny person here? I've never played with Ranger, Titus, Doctor Drew, or Wheme before, so it's interesting to see the range of reactions to my few posts.

Idk why people think my removing Rauth from nightmare list is scummy. It seems like their usefulness in the mechanics debate as a foil/devil's advocate against IC is over now.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Anyways this wagon's getting stale

VOTE: kkfc

-A

Am I getting voted for town vibes or b/c of Titus?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Wait so why are you voting me then

[KatyKimFanClub]

I was very null on Doctor Drew before 560. It's definitely doesn't very town for him to get added to the nightmare but also I am confused since he was at N-2 (heh) and it was super likely he was going to get into anyways? Maybe it's a paired ability or something?


I know part of 577 was a joke but it makes sense for Radical Rat to scumread me after a couple of my failed mechanics posts.


It's +town for Abnegation to notice Drew wasn't at 10 votes to Run the Nightmare in 590. Maybe Abnegation/Doctor Drew are opposite teams?

Also still pretty skeptical of people saying they do or don't get townvibes from me. I've completed one game on this site.

I think I want to see the VCs before I make more comments.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Rereading my post above I don't think I was very null on Doctor Drew actually so idk why I said that. I didn't like that he voted me for the reason I stated on penultimate line of 631. The vote seemed kind of random but I can't tell if that's just because I generally distrust people who vote me or if it's hindsight.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Also still pretty skeptical of people saying they do or don't get townvibes from me. I've completed one game on this site.

You don't need meta to viberead someone? You just look at their posts and figure out how they make you feel

Seemed handwave-y and I am skeptical when several people comment on it and give completely different reads.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I think the more variance there are in how people read me Day 1 the more scum are commenting.

[KatyKimFanClub]

there is*

[KatyKimFanClub]

It's +town for Abnegation to notice Drew wasn't at 10 votes to Run the Nightmare in 590. Maybe Abnegation/Doctor Drew are opposite teams?

By "opposite teams" are you suggesting multiball here?

Uhhh I just meant scum/town

[KatyKimFanClub]

Or town/scum

[KatyKimFanClub]

Finally able to get onto the site to post.

I like how Radical Rat is trying to figure out who put Drew into the Nightmare, but isn't it more likely that scum were talking in their own PT about doing this? I could see how if they're talking in there they would intentionally not talk in here during the time Drew was added to the Nightmare.

Interesting "neither confirm nor deny" post from Ranger though. The discussion around the post reads either like 1) a game starved for progressing posts or 2) post that actually hit scum?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Totally! I like what you did.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Let's just kill the mech talk, full stop, right now. We have two people already who are basically saying they're not gonna play due to it, which means town isn't playing or scum is using it as an excuse.

I agree with this (and not to make things about myself) but its interesting that the two people currently voting for me are the two saying they're not going to play w/ all the mech talk (and there was a 3rd person voting for me who changed their vote recently that is very much against public discussion of mechanics)

[KatyKimFanClub]

That is actually the conclusion that I just came to as well.

Which conclusion?

That scum getting to shoot at people who are awarded the invention means more prudence in trying to put only town in the nightmare would be called for if we don't want those people to get shot.

I never had much confidence in being able to pick a large group of town though, I think it's probably best to assume scum will know what's happening there.

I have always been pretty bearish on our ability to select 7 townsided people for the Nightmare tonight (even though I think we should try). Using a naive definition of probability and assuming there are 4 scum like last game (slightly smaller w/ 17 instead of 19) AND assuming that Doctor Drew is town (otherwise this is all moot) we have like a 16% chance of a town 7 nightmare.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Like I feel pythons argument is "why wouldn't you ask that in your scum pt you dingleberry" and the logical conclusion is that rauthe doesn't have one

But I'm only kind of skimming so maybe I'm missing something

Because it's not about actually getting an answer, it's FUD tactics

Sorry, what's FUD?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Like I feel pythons argument is "why wouldn't you ask that in your scum pt you dingleberry" and the logical conclusion is that rauthe doesn't have one

But I'm only kind of skimming so maybe I'm missing something

Because it's not about actually getting an answer, it's FUD tactics

Sorry, what's FUD?

Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

Basically it's using rhetoric meant to undermine confidence in an idea one finds unfavorable. You see it crop up a lot in marketing and politics.

Ah I looked on the site wiki but not on Google... thanks.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Look. If kills happen before invention awards that doesn't change which invention we should reward. Since that affects all invention awards equally.
It DOES affect how we should give the awards. It would have meant we should definitely try to only put 7 town into the Nightmare, if the person gifted to gets killed then we can guess that scum is within that much smaller group of people then.

So I'm confused why this latest thought of mine is getting used to scum read me since it's an argument for the plan you all are currently proposing and I also fail to see how suggesting it is scummy.

You're begging for it at this point

[KatyKimFanClub]

This is also part of why I think Radical Rat's town. They appear to be a town player scum are using.

I am pretty confident one of DragonEater or Merlyn is scum too.

[KatyKimFanClub]

VOTE: dragoneater

This might be the funniest vote of all time

[KatyKimFanClub]

Yes

[KatyKimFanClub]

I mean, that is the consensus opinion.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Reading over everything from today now

[KatyKimFanClub]

Trying to understand 814 and everything around it in context of the game.

So, like in 561 Ranger says he trusts the town!Drew coast and sheep strategy. This breaks with a Ranger who seems to have strong priors based on meta-reads of other players. Ranger even says as much in the post. That fact makes 561 weird in context of Ranger possibly putting Drew in the Nightmare. Since, if Ranger is town and being truthful about thinking Drew is town, why would there be so much discretion about what happened? Even then, why would Ranger pick Drew? At best, he's a nullread. The other case is that Ranger is scum, but then isn't Ranger going to push Drew way harder given Drew gets confirmed to run the nightmare literally a post earlier?

My head is super fucked here because I don't get what's going on. It's possible this is all a level but idk?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Like last game scum!KKFC flew under the radar with pretty much 0 pressure on him so we wanted to see what would happen if there's votes on him

The votes on me were the most obvious reaction bait ever considering besides you the other two people who voted had a combined one relevant post at the time.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Not buying a lot of the logic related to traitor/lawyer signaling. Way more indicative ways to do it in a game with two voting mechanisms, imo?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I thought I had worked it out, but it has now become apparent I was wrong. I haven't decided what that means about you yet.

Can you do me a favor and make the connection you originally missed obvious to me? I remember remarking at the time that your logic was tenuous but hopefully I can see why it's totally broken at this point in the game.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Making 999 and then reading 977 is wild. Just when you thought the book was closed... ?

I think I'm going to sheep StD.

VOTE: DragonEater

[KatyKimFanClub]

Yes haha. I like to make separate posts because it makes it easier to go back and reread them as different ideas.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Honestly now I'm confused because I was pretty sure I was consistently multi-posting when rereading. Maybe it's a question of real life setups? I don't mean anything intentional by it.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Oh my gosh, is Drew actually trying to scumread KKFC and Abnegation over whether multiple posts are made or not??? Maybe this is town Drew after all. XD

What's so crazy about it?

I just pointed out a hypocrisy, and Alianna always wants post 1000.....there is a smoking gun.

I don't think hypocrisy is the right word here?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I just reread all of my posts and posting habits. Whether I'm posting a bunch of replies or responses in one post versus a chain of multiple has nothing to do with game state. Feel free to read over my posts (I actually encourage this because so far there's been a pretty wide range of reads on me?) and look for signal in my posting patterns but there definitely isn't an intentional one.


As for why Drew is pointing this out, I think this is even more tenuous than the original RR post about timing and Ranger putting Drew in a nightmare. I feel like it's supposed to be tongue-in-cheek? Then again, he is voting Abnegation and his vote on me in 516 does exist.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Trying to understand 814 and everything around it in context of the game.

So, like in 561 Ranger says he trusts the town!Drew coast and sheep strategy. This breaks with a Ranger who seems to have strong priors based on meta-reads of other players. Ranger even says as much in the post. That fact makes 561 weird in context of Ranger possibly putting Drew in the Nightmare. Since, if Ranger is town and being truthful about thinking Drew is town, why would there be so much discretion about what happened? Even then, why would Ranger pick Drew? At best, he's a nullread. The other case is that Ranger is scum, but then isn't Ranger going to push Drew way harder given Drew gets confirmed to run the nightmare literally a post earlier?

My head is super fucked here because I don't get what's going on. It's possible this is all a level but idk?

Townreads disagree extensively about logic. This appears to imply they cannot.

I'm only really talking about Ranger's logic in this post. I think you might have misread me or I wasn't clear enough. I'm definitely not implying what you think I am.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Yes haha. I like to make separate posts because it makes it easier to go back and reread them as different ideas.

Before anyone asks, I think multi quote is a step fot tomorrow

Like you think I should use multi quote tomorrow? Or you're going to vote for me tomorrow because I don't use multi-quote at times?

[KatyKimFanClub]

townies: merlyn, rat
probably town: ranger, kyoko, drew
maybe town: tweet
null: everyone else probably for a good reason or a bad reason
maybe scum: python, abnegation, std
scum: bianco (or whoever they were being replaced by), aureal, rauth, snivy!!!

i can elaborate if someone wants but I think I made it clear

who is RR btw

Which one of Ranger/Kyoko is scum Camel?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I think Drew was pretty townie with his Abnegation/KKFC push, if we're talking about the day ability why cant it be something like a Town Informed Nightmare Decider?

You thought that most recent push was *town*? It seemed pretty NAI to me, with it being total bullshit

[KatyKimFanClub]

A little unclear to me why Drew is making multiple posts when a single one would suffice. Possible signaling?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Either way, I scumread him for this!

[KatyKimFanClub]

kinda wanna IC Rauth instead of wagoning them

Irony involved in this makes me a fan

[KatyKimFanClub]

I haven't really expressed any of my own opinions for the last 20 pages or so. Figured I'd actually try starting now.
Kyoko vs. Ranger reads like TvT but to be honest I didn't read the second half of it and I have no interest in ever reading it. I think Ranger is town though because I don't most of the arguments that I did read about him signaling or doing anything. I'm also not sure if Ranger does the readslist every game but this seems something that will be pretty hard to explain in an endgame if Ranger gets there, so I don't think there's any sort of pressure to vote Ranger now. This same logic holds for Kyoko honestly. usesPython siding with Ranger here is confusing because I don't know if all three are town? Could explain relative lack of activity from some people if they're just watching a town implode though.

Honestly getting scum vibes from Random Nurse? I kind of just want them to iso someone and ignore everything else so we can get some more content going.

Presumably Titus does not scumread me as much as she wants to policy Rauth, but I am interested if there's been any progression in her reads on me since 510?

Two different people say this is what town Drew does so whatever I'm over it gameplay wise (emotionally I am not).

Rauth has had multiple instances where they seemed to not really care about their own survival which seems pretty town ngl.

[KatyKimFanClub]

usesPython siding with Ranger here is confusing because I don't know if all three are town?

Why is it confusing for us to side with the person getting shitpushed for the past 15 pages?

Err, I don't think the move is confusing. It actually makes a lot of sense. But part of my brain just thinks it would be weird if all three of you flipped town? Like to what extent is this level of disagreement normal.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Feeling much better about Random Nurse after recent activity and 1315.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Dragon played this way in Newbie 2125 and rolled scum.

That game just finished so can you talk more about this now?

Scum dragon in that game had a very similar gameplay pattern to the start of Day 1.
1) Half-hearted pushes on people (in this case bianco and abnegation) which don't really seem to be for reactions but rather just for interaction's sake
2) Complete inactivity as some attention was drawn (mitigating factors this game like the site breaking for a day)

[KatyKimFanClub]

wheme because they acknowledged the game existed with posts but for the time they did read they seemed like they just made random reads

Read

s

is generous.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I feel like we should have stuck with Rautherdir or KKTC and Merlyn is the miselimination. Yes, I know that's in direct opposition of Ranger and that I haven't put much why behind my stances. Yet, Ranger feels like the excuse people will give when things go sideways repeatedly and then miseliminate her.

Can you elaborate on why you think I'm scummy or is the the same reasoning as from the start of the day?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Feel like neighborizer is way worse since the person using it might not be town?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Ranger and usesPython have run discussion this game and they're voting for the same person. Merlyn is also on the list of people riding Radical Rat's proposal from a few pages ago.
Also this is weird and I'm not sure if it means anything, but I also sort of trust the votes (and voters?) they've already marshaled?

VOTE: Merlyn

[KatyKimFanClub]

Though I'm also very interested in this take. Since you apparently didn't know what Loyal did, why would you say a Scum Rolecop is better than a Scum Neighborizer?

Sorry, I know what Loyal meant. I just thought someone who was given the Loyal Neighborizer, if mafia, could just use it on their partner. Like, they might get found out when one flips but it's still more deceptive than if they're given an innocent child invention they have to use on themselves.

As for the second part, I don't remember saying anything about Rolecop?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Oh shit. This is why I should quote things. I meant it's worse than IC.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Disagree with the first statement. As for the second, yeah. It's pretty hard to get traction in a game like this as a replacement.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Honestly maybe you're right on the first one? Just reread my own game. Either way, I don't know if that makes me scum lol

[KatyKimFanClub]

Like why me and not someone like WhemeStar or Merlyn who have been doing the same thing (arguably more egregiously?)

[KatyKimFanClub]

Counting votes for nightmare I got:
Confirmed - Drew
13 - usesPython
11 - Radical Rat
10 - Titus, Abnegation
9 - Ranger
7- Sheep
4- Aureal
2 - Rauth, DragonEater70
1- Merlyn, KKFC, Camel, Random Nurse, Morning Tweet
0- Kyoko, StD, Flea.

Some notes: there are 13 people voting for a proposal. StD is the only person voting for a proposal without a vote (more of a fun fact really).

Questions: Why haven't usesPython, Radical Rat, Titus, and Abnegation been confirmed. I thought it was simple majority? I am not dumbtelling when I ask this.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Actually, I think some of these votes are off. Abnegation is listed as voting twice (once for their own proposal and once for usesPython's).

[KatyKimFanClub]

Thank you.
---
The reason I thought that is that I forgot that Drew was a special case/power. When that happened I made a mental note to myself that we were voting for individuals and not proposals and I just never fixed it in my head until now.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I haven't really expressed any of my own opinions for the last 20 pages or so. Figured I'd actually try starting now.
Kyoko vs. Ranger reads like TvT but to be honest I didn't read the second half of it and I have no interest in ever reading it. I think Ranger is town though because I don't most of the arguments that I did read about him signaling or doing anything. I'm also not sure if Ranger does the readslist every game but this seems something that will be pretty hard to explain in an endgame if Ranger gets there, so I don't think there's any sort of pressure to vote Ranger now. This same logic holds for Kyoko honestly. usesPython siding with Ranger here is confusing because I don't know if all three are town? Could explain relative lack of activity from some people if they're just watching a town implode though.

Honestly getting scum vibes from Random Nurse? I kind of just want them to iso someone and ignore everything else so we can get some more content going.

Presumably Titus does not scumread me as much as she wants to policy Rauth, but I am interested if there's been any progression in her reads on me since 510?

Two different people say this is what town Drew does so whatever I'm over it gameplay wise (emotionally I am not).

Rauth has had multiple instances where they seemed to not really care about their own survival which seems pretty town ngl.

Now this post actually pings me. feels too sidelined and safe producing reads that it can hint not having a thought process behind it. Like I feel its filled with easy reads and layers shading and it just vibes me wrong.

for instance in first part calls ranger vs me tvt says he is unsure about it, adds python and says he doesn't like them scumreading me - which feels so out of context and shady overall to just include all three of us there and saying one will probably not be town

and then random nurse and titus and repeating of rauth vibes most people have.

(I tend to explain my vibes harder than they are and people assume its a solid read. I don't think this post alone makes KatyKimFanClub scum, but it viubed hard on scum meter toward scummy state) maybe I iso dive this slot later.

I guess you largely have issues with my tone and then content. For tone, I just write like this. I use a lot of conditionals and qualifiers just because I hate being wrong so I tend to add things to my writing to temper it. If the part of my post related to you and Ranger vibes you wrong because of tone this is the best defense I can do.

I mentioned this later because usesPython asked a similar question, but the main reason I mentioned them and wondered if everyone involved was town was because you three were pretty active during the pages in question where there was an argument. I felt the level of disagreement between you and Ranger, and then usesPython's commentary on the situation after the fact didn't make a lot of sense to me if everyone involved was town from an activity standpoint. As in, would scum slow down their posting to let the entire situation happen? I figured that scum wouldn't let the conversation play out entirely

because

I got T v T vibes from it, and thus they should try to stop it. I also admit that I mainly look to usesPython's reads to base myself in the game, as I feel as though they had a good sense what was going on at that point.

Can you elaborate on why you mentioned my reads on Random Nurse, Titus, and Rauth? I also don't think my reads on Random Nurse and Rauth were particularly orthodox at the time.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I have admitted, and I once again admit, that it's been pretty hard to scumhunt in this game. The people I think are most scummy (DE70, Wheme), really have no traction and honestly most people aren't interested or haven't interacted with my commentary on why I think they're scummy. At the end of the day, I am probably guilty of not giving great reads, but that's not because I'm scum.

[KatyKimFanClub]

VOTE: WhemeStar

[KatyKimFanClub]

Maybe this is an obvious take but Merlyn replacing out makes me feel better about their not wanting to give reads c. 1584.


See 1533 for why I hadn't changed my nightmare vote earlier. Honestly, since I'm not in it and there's significant overlap between the two main proposals, I don't really feel enough personal momentum to fight for a different proposal.

HURT: usesPython's proposal

[KatyKimFanClub]

I prefer not reading alignment in replacements since it's gross as hell

I'm not putting much weight in it, but the entire thing makes a little more sense to me now if the slot is town? Idk if that makes sense.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Wheme do you have a post (or lack of a post) that proves that you're just checked out and not lurking? Like a place in this game where you posted where you wouldn't have if you lurked or an opinion/position you held that you wouldn't have if you were trying to lie low?

I actually buy your argument because when I read your posts again a lot of them sound like you just don't care.

[KatyKimFanClub]

You scumread me because of 383?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Ok, the reason you that is asked is this.


I noticed this game there was a lot of alignment in your reads with Titus. Notably, Titus commented on 383 as she read my posts and ended up voting for me. In post 383, I suggest that we make a list of towny people and vote for an aggregated nightmare proposal. (Side note, this is exactly what we ended up doing). I follow up in 384 asking if we should just vote during the day for who gets the IC.


You voted for me in 494 and then commented on Titus' voting for me in 513. She quotes 383 in 508. Therefore, it follows that you've seen 383 and the response to it as well as 384.


Then you make 1535 and 1538, which makes no sense if you remembered my earlier posts because its the same thought process I had and its asking very similar questions.

Maybe this is super circumstantial, but this is evidence I have for you being checked out and not lurking.

[KatyKimFanClub]

UNVOTE: WhemeStar

[KatyKimFanClub]

VOTE: WhemeStar

[KatyKimFanClub]

Wheme do you have a post (or lack of a post) that proves that you're just checked out and not lurking? Like a place in this game where you posted where you wouldn't have if you lurked or an opinion/position you held that you wouldn't have if you were trying to lie low?

I actually buy your argument because when I read your posts again a lot of them sound like you just don't care.

Wat.

"Do you have (or lack) a post that proves you're just checked out?"

VOTE: KatyKimFanClub

Thers been some nothingposting going on but this is actually fluffier than a jar of fluff.

This is actually my least fluffy post. I'm trying to see if Wheme will speak up and spot the connection I talked about in 1820.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Maybe not least fluffy, but my position there was trying to establish the truthfulness of Wheme's position.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Maybe im just tired.
You are asking for proof that either does or doesnt exist and then you go on to answer your own questions in what read as an attempt to back off unsuspiciously and go elsewhere.

At the time, I thought my evidence was more exonerating than it was which probably is why it reads like a lawyer cross-examining in a courtroom.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Maybe im just tired.
You are asking for proof that either does or doesnt exist and then you go on to answer your own questions in what read as an attempt to back off unsuspiciously and go elsewhere.

oh cool, someone else noticed this.

sorry if my catchup today is a bit spammy, i'm just reading through the last 6 pages and posting as i go.

You two noticed... a tautology?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I'm suspicious of the point of these comments from you and Flea. Neither of you are voting for me so are you just going to try to set me up for a push tomorrow?

Flea's entire premise is that I made a filler post when I was trying to get down to the base of the WhemeStar/Ranger lurking vs checked out argument. I understand that it probably reads differently when rereading, but at that moment in time it's a pretty rare spurt of activity of WhemeStar and I see the opportunity to clarify a few things that have been bothering me for a while. If it is the case that he's suddenly trying because Ranger is pushing on him, there's a lot of information to be gained particularly regarding Ranger's alignment.


The actual reasoning for the "or lack of a post" qualifier in 1809 is something I've mentioned earlier which is that I'm often thorough with wording to the point of obfuscating my comments. I meant if there was a time didn't post something that he had noticed because he was checked out or inactive. Also, if you read the entire interaction, there's a post in the middle of it that no one else has mentioned which is 1814. It's not like I asked him a question then gave him an answer. He responded to my questioning in 1815 and 1819.

He literally had his vote on me the entire day without explaining why. It's a little hard to figure out if someone is lurking vs. just going through the motions without actually asking them questions where they could say something revealing.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Maybe im just tired.
You are asking for proof that either does or doesnt exist and then you go on to answer your own questions in what read as an attempt to back off unsuspiciously and go elsewhere.

oh cool, someone else noticed this.

sorry if my catchup today is a bit spammy, i'm just reading through the last 6 pages and posting as i go.

You two noticed... a tautology?

not 100% sure what you're referring to here, but i'm commenting on the fact that flea also noticed that interaction and thought it looked strange/sus. i don't really care about the specific wording of it if that's what you mean. i haven't decided if i townread it yet, just posting thoughts as they come to me.

I didn't see this as I wrote my response. Fair enough.

[KatyKimFanClub]

@kkfc - specifically, what seemed off to me is that you asked the question, but it seemed like you already knew where you stood on it and had the evidence to back it up. all of the reasons provided in 1820 were from posts that were made pages and pages ago and there wasn't anything about wheme's response to your question. nothing to suggest it had factored into your read. so it did look pointless.
i wouldn't say it makes me want to scumread or vote your slot yet though, you're null overall for me.

That's fair. I just saw an opportunity to get him to engage on something that had bothered me for a while and, if you trust me, I'm saying that the timing and my excitement to try something productive is the reasoning behind the wording and perceived weirdness of the interaction.

[KatyKimFanClub]

i guess i'll ask the obvious follow-up question - did wheme's response to you impact your read on them in any significant way?

No

[KatyKimFanClub]

KKFC why did you put your vote back on Wheme after the unvote?

I'm more confident now than a few days ago that he's inactive and not lurking, but even if I'm unsure of alignment but I figured he's not even a town asset if he's town.

Also I think this is camel's town game but I haven't really built that case on anything more than vibes from Newbie 2125 yet.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Do you mean not all three of Ranger, StD, and Alianna are scum or they're all not scum? How can the push be scum motivated if none of those three are scum?

[KatyKimFanClub]

oh wheme is out of E-1 i wanted to see what claim they could've possibly had

Why not just vote for them then.

[KatyKimFanClub]

for the most part

Townie Probably: {Rat, KKFC(odd but I don't see KKFC being scum with literally anybody)}
Maybe Townie: {sheep, Kyoko, Ranger, Random Nurse(yet to be replaced?)}
Null: {drew, Abne, MT, Dragon, Titus, Flea, python} (all mainly people I haven't heard from a lot except Titus & python)
Maybe Scum: {Aureal, Wheme, CSF}
Scum: {STD, rauth}
Today's Vote: {camelCasedSnivy}

tell me if I forgot anyone

You said to move STD back to null so Wheme has got to be in your top 3 scumreads?
Also what utility do you get from them claiming *if* you don't think they're scum?

[KatyKimFanClub]

oh wheme is out of E-1 i wanted to see what claim they could've possibly had

Why not just vote for them then.

I don't think its them though, I'm just curious as to their claim

Also if your theory is that they're only claiming with significant vote pressure then why not apply it? Like this post just doesn't make any sense.

[KatyKimFanClub]

"One of the other significant wagon targets just unvoted me and said they would self vote to end the day, this is definitely a time for me, WhemeStar, to claim"

?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Also what utility do you get from them claiming *if* you don't think they're scum?

I made up my mind about unvoting wheme after csf started pushing me. All I was saying is I was curious to hear a claim, nothing to do with my reads.

KKFC I think the entire point of my post just flew over your head

How exactly did I miss your point considering I asked you a question directly related to it?

[KatyKimFanClub]

You're getting pushed by someone on your maybe scum list. Your wagon alternative is someone on your maybe scum list. If you think that the CSF push is scum-motivated, how are you not suspicious of Wheme still? Alternatively, why are you considering self voting?

[KatyKimFanClub]

So idk why I put wheme in the maybe scum that's a whoopsie on my part

Also that self voting thing was just a way to convey that I WANT FLIPS NOW.

I'm sorry but I just can't get past this. You want flips now but you don't want to vote for someone who is the only real alternative vote to you? Someone who you voted for and previously scumread?

No matter who I push it's probably not gonna end up in their elimination so I'm probably just going to end up voting for merlyn.

Also can yall like, accept the Ranger proposal

Earlier in the day you're pretty comfortable with the idea that some votes just aren't plausible eliminations. So like, how can you possibly want day to end but not be ok with a Wheme vote or personally vote for him? I do not understand this logic. What exactly is your alternative?

[KatyKimFanClub]

So idk why I put wheme in the maybe scum that's a whoopsie on my part

Also that self voting thing was just a way to convey that I WANT FLIPS NOW.

I'm sorry but I just can't get past this. You want flips now but you don't want to vote for someone who is the only real alternative vote to you? Someone who you voted for and previously scumread?

No matter who I push it's probably not gonna end up in their elimination so I'm probably just going to end up voting for merlyn.

Also can yall like, accept the Ranger proposal

Earlier in the day you're pretty comfortable with the idea that some votes just aren't plausible eliminations. So like, how can you possibly want day to end but not be ok with a Wheme vote or personally vote for him? I do not understand this logic. What exactly is your alternative?

KKFC I said I would vote wheme if it came to it. I even implied it in my last post. I never even voted merlyn there, and the only reason I did eventually was because I thought rat was bugging everyone about it and at that point I was willing to sheep.

I'm not talking about the particulars of you voting for Merlyn in the second quote. I'm pointing out that you're clearly ok with voting someone who isn't your top choice for an elim because your top choice isn't tenable. I view this as contradictory with your unwillingness to vote for Wheme earlier despite wanting the day to end. If you want to vote Wheme now then that's whatever, but I think it's super suspicious that you 1) claimed you wanted day to end 2) did not vote or do any other actions to actually end the day.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Also if wheme flips scum KKFC is going super down in my readlist now

Interested in your logic for this one

[KatyKimFanClub]

Honestly yeah I am thinking about pushing on you after Wheme. But what does that have to do with his alignment?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I'm pretty confused now.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Yes. I already said that I find it very suspicious and that I will be pushing you for it.

[KatyKimFanClub]

How is what you got out of this that I'm the one defending Wheme? I'm literally calling you out for scumreading him and not voting him. Are you reading my posts?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Ok but surely you understand from my perspective why I think it's extremely suspicious and thus why I'm scumreading you for it right?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I'm getting super stunlocked by this conversation right now and I'm just going to move on. This happens to me every game and I don't know how to stop it.
There are just a ton of things which make me so fucking confused about this conversation. Like I'm in a social experiment or something.


1) You were really confident I didn't understand what was going on in 2088 even though my questioning in 2086 directly implied the opposite. And then later you say "oh yeah by the way my scumread on WhemeStar was a clerical error" as if that wouldn't be a really big detail.
2) Your conclusion from this was that I'm defending WhemeStar
3) Your gripe with me is that I misinterpreted your "self-vote to end the day" comment when you later had to say that you would in fact vote WhemeStar if forced (despite the opportunity being available to you this whole time).

Self-meta - honestly, I think I'm just super pedantic as town but I AM SO FUCKING CONFUSED HERE.

Can someone read this thread and do a sanity check? Am I going insane?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I'm upset at the claim that I misunderstood what you said when you were the one who had to clarify multiple things such as not scumreading WhemeStar anymore or the self-voting thing not being real. That's all. It's off my chest now.

[KatyKimFanClub]

UNVOTE:

[KatyKimFanClub]

Why would someone who thinks they're basically a cop say things like "a lim on me wouldn't be bad"? Makes me think of this.

I remember him saying this, but isn't it possible he thought his role was only to find cheaters and thus it's kinda useless (at the time)?

[KatyKimFanClub]

VOTE: WhemeStar this role seems more likely to flip scum than I originally thought.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Because putting my role in game that has a pt creation mechanic on top of town neighbors makes my role self destruction which probably just makes me a coo

What is a coo?

[KatyKimFanClub]

You think fast wagons are more likely scum driven?

I brought it up asking if I should think anything of it and nobody responded so I made my own judgement

I would normally agree with you, but I wonder if the looming deadline (at the time) as well as the dragging nature of the day made the wagon faster than it would be otherwise. At least, this is the reasoning I used to justify it to myself.

[KatyKimFanClub]

cop

Thanks

[KatyKimFanClub]

I'm trying something out.

Basically, I'm looking for townreads and representing them as vertices on a graph. This might give us two things. One, it gives a visualization of townreads in this game so far. Also, it gives us cliques (sets of people who all mutually townread eachother) which might be informative. Main issue holding back this analysis is the fact that this game is 19 people and it's hard to figure out where some people stand with their townreads because I'm not good at reading. There's also probably some matrix representation of this which might allow for more representations of people's reads on each other but I'm not quite sure how to do that.

Graph:



Arrows represent townreads.

Numbering:
1- DE70
3- Ranger
4- Radical Rat
5- KKFC
6- Morning Tweet
7- Doctor Drew
8- Titus
10- StD
11- WhemeStar
12- UsesPython
13- Rauth
14- Kyoko
15- Merlyn/CSF
16- CCS
17- Abnegation
18- sheepsaysmeep
19- Aureal

All cliques of three people: Radical Rat - StD - Kyoko, Radical Rat - Abnegation - Aureal, Ranger - UsesPython - Titus, Ranger - UsesPython - Rauth, Morning Tweet - UsesPython - Abnegation, Radical Rat - UsesPython - Abnegation, DragonEater70 - UsesPython - Abnegation.

I didn't have data for Flea or Random Nurse so they're not in the graph.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I know this analysis is really shoddy because it went down to me reading everyone's posts and trying to figure out who they townread, but I have some logic behind it some of which I can reveal right now. I doubt scumteams are going to form a clique Day 1, or if they do, they would disguise their reads and support of one another to the point that I wouldn't have the evidence to be able to form a clique.

[KatyKimFanClub]

i don't get how the graph is useful. what is it supposed to help us with?

1) I have a theory that scumteams will not form cliques of size 2 or 3. I didn't post the cliques of size 2 because there are quite a few.
2) It's an interesting visualization of who is townread by whom and vice versa. You can see who is at the center of "towniness" and who is at the periphery.
3) It gives useful information because of 1) and 2) about who to IC. I'm not in the Nightmare so my hope was that this would be useful.
4) It will be useful later in the game to see where people stood before Day 1 end.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I am struggling to find people who are singularly scummy, so I'm trying an alternative approach to figure out possible teams or at least eliminate some. If you think it's LAMIST then so be it but I sat through a bunch of mech talk that I didn't care about and didn't complain that much so if you hate it just ignore it.

[KatyKimFanClub]

We know there's a traitor now.

[KatyKimFanClub]

so titus was mafia

that adds up

and considering they had a traitor cop action there's probably a traitor

man I love this game

Why does Titus being mafia add up

[KatyKimFanClub]

so titus was mafia

that adds up

and considering they had a traitor cop action there's probably a traitor

man I love this game

Why does Titus being mafia add up

anyone voting me must be mafia

that adds up (not sarcastic)

[KatyKimFanClub]

Titus being sent for the kill has some interesting/worrying implications?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Titus being sent for the kill has some interesting/worrying implications?

And what are those implications? She was apparently townread enough to get put in the Nightmare. Over actual town.

Not that I'm bitter about being left out of the cool kids' club in favor of scum or anything.

VOTE: camelCasedSnivy

Well, the way I see it, her role was pretty strong. I know it's role madness and Titus was widely townread but it doesn't make sense to me to send a JOAT with no nightkill relevant abilities yet two dayplay relevant abilities for a kill. To me, that either indicates that scum has people with even stronger abilities or people who are even more towny than Titus?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I just realized this game has 3+ Traffic Analysts wtf

Did I miss the third one? Or are you assuming that scum has one if town has two?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I just realized this game has 3+ Traffic Analysts wtf

Did I miss the third one? Or are you assuming that scum has one if town has two?

Last night, I had a dream that Radical Rat had a role that gave them access to a PT!

Thanks

[KatyKimFanClub]

[/quote]*Eric Andre Voice* NIGHTMARE NIGHTMARE NIGHTMARE NIGHTMARE

HURT: radical's proposal

VOTE: Kyoko

[KatyKimFanClub]

Sorry, I actually didn't think through ending the day too early.

[KatyKimFanClub]

By 1552, there's already a proposal with scum in it at E-3. Isn't it possible that Kyoko is just trying to obfuscate at that point?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I maintain we are putting too much weight in the "at least one maf in Kyoko's nightmare pool" hypothesis. But I've definitely put forth more tenuous stuff than that this game so if people believe in it I'll stand back.


On the other hand, 2713 and then it's backtrack in 2716 seem off to me. Maybe it's the wording but isn't the whole point of relevance based on the fact that Kyoko is now dead and role-revealed?

[KatyKimFanClub]

its* backtrack

[KatyKimFanClub]

2716 was a clarification not a backtrack. I don't see your point.

Uhh, I think you're right about it being a clarification. I thought CCS was basically saying "I want to be in your nightmare, since, as Kyoko has flipped scum, it's more likely they were trying to pocket me and thus that I am town". But I'm not sure if that's what they were trying to say anymore.

And if they were saying that, then Kyoko being dead and scum would be very relevant to the point.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Kinda interesting that Kyoko's original push on Ranger was the argument that the Doctor Drew puns were traitor signaling. I wonder if there's anything else Kyoko posted that might betray some extra knowledge that only scum would have. Will do a rereading tomorrow.

[KatyKimFanClub]

How does massclaim benefit town if the main worry is cult? Culted members can just say their original role right? I'm sure there's logic here but I don't see it yet.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Wait I think we're misunderstanding each other, we're saying there's 2 mafia + traitor + CL + 0-2 cultists

still alive

With 13 players left, we're looking at between 7 and 9 town members?

Tomorrow we would probably expect another factional kill and movement towards 2 cultists (going to hedge and say that cult is going to be capped at 3 for now maybe with like an odd night or x-shot mechanism).

Assuming factional kill on town and miselim, we'd have less than 50% town possibly?

Maybe it's right to massclaim today then even if we think it improves our elim odds by a very small amount. It's also possible that massclaim helps us determine relative strength of cult/mafia based on claimed roles.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I actually have no clue if this is true, but massclaim seems pretty good in a role madness game? If we do it we should do it soon though.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I guess Ranger has got the massclaim started.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I'm a Backrooms Designer (Town Neighborizing Marshall)

Each night I can target another player in the game and add them to my neighborhood (The Backrooms). Anyone I target cannot be targeted by anyone else and cannot take any actions the night I target them. I gain access to the Backrooms the first time my neighborize is successful.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Oh are we not supposed to say flavor names? I'm so sorry.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Checks out.

Also, I have access to my neighborhood, and this is also why I was suspicious of WhemeStar.

Also FMPOV I think it's fair to say that any additional traffic analyst claims are just scumclaims?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I'm a Backrooms Designer (Town Neighborizing Marshall)

Each night I can target another player in the game and add them to my neighborhood (The Backrooms). Anyone I target cannot be targeted by anyone else and cannot take any actions the night I target them. I gain access to the Backrooms the first time my neighborize is successful.

Did you use this ability?

Yes.

I need to figure out how to preview posts properly because the number of times that I SHOULD be PEDITING is way higher than the number of times that I do.

[KatyKimFanClub]

To be more specific, I've used the ability twice now.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Does Traitor show up as town under investigations?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Specifically, Abnegation is a 1-shot rolecop mason I think.

[KatyKimFanClub]

We know that all information in role PMs are guaranteed to be accurate, so I can confidently say that I am not like some unintentional cult, which I was actually super paranoid about for a while.

That being said, the fact we had two town Traffic Analysts w/ Neighborizer + a trio of Masons makes me confident we are dealing with a cult, unless my role is supposed to be bad for town?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Neither Kyoko or Titus showed up with roleblocking abilities, and it seems irresponsible to not give scum a roleblocking ability in a role madness game?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Knowing more about how probable of a roleblock target Ranger was relies on N1 Nightmare information, which I don't have.

[KatyKimFanClub]

We know that all information in role PMs are guaranteed to be accurate, so I can confidently say that I am not like some unintentional cult, which I was actually super paranoid about for a while.

That being said, the fact we had two town Traffic Analysts w/ Neighborizer + a trio of Masons makes me confident we are dealing with a cult, unless my role is supposed to be bad for town?

Can we get a list of people you've targeted so far? The Neighborhood isn't that important since we can't guarantee the alignment of the people in it

Sure,
N1: sheepsaysmeep
N2: sheepsaysmeep

[KatyKimFanClub]

Titus wasn't multitasking though and she was sent for factional kill so she couldn't have used it right?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I guess I'm only thinking of the possibility that scum roleblocked Ranger. Maybe someone else did?

[KatyKimFanClub]

We know that all information in role PMs are guaranteed to be accurate, so I can confidently say that I am not like some unintentional cult, which I was actually super paranoid about for a while.

That being said, the fact we had two town Traffic Analysts w/ Neighborizer + a trio of Masons makes me confident we are dealing with a cult, unless my role is supposed to be bad for town?

Can we get a list of people you've targeted so far? The Neighborhood isn't that important since we can't guarantee the alignment of the people in it

Sure,
N1: sheepsaysmeep
N2: sheepsaysmeep

did it not go through n1?

It went through N1. I re-neighborized to protect sheep last night.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Oh. Nevermind then!

[KatyKimFanClub]

Ranger didn't mentioned strongwilled jailkeep though, and since it's announcing I think she would know? This isn't a big deal at the end of the day since we can just ask Ranger.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I think at this point my real role is just rolestopper.

[KatyKimFanClub]

They seemed town and the least likely to get pissed at me for rolestopping them.

[KatyKimFanClub]

More seriously/specifically, they were in the Nightmare N1 (I wanted to know what was going on) and townread me Day 1.
I thought these were two necessary conditions because otherwise they might not tell me the truth or refuse to share info in the PT.

[KatyKimFanClub]

KKFC, you've played Mafia on another site before, yeah?

Yeah I played on epicmafia for a summer (c. 2019?)

[KatyKimFanClub]

I'm nervous now lol

[KatyKimFanClub]

Yes. I play Watchtower or One Night Ultimate Werewolf with people sometimes but yeah.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Are you asking this bc you're wondering the chances I could have come up with this role as Solo Cult Leader?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Trust me I'm confused by my role as well.
Firstly, the Backrooms is like pretty scary?
Also, I cannot find any mention of the Marshall role on the MafiaScum wiki.

Regardless, like a dutiful noob, I decided to crumb it anyways.

Feel like

neighborizer

is way worse since the person using it might not be town?

Ranger and usesPython have run discussion this game and they're voting for the same person. Merlyn is also on the list of people riding Radical Rat's proposal from a few pages ago.
Also this is weird and I'm not sure if it means anything, but I also sort of trust the votes (and voters?) they've already

marshaled

?

VOTE: Merlyn

[KatyKimFanClub]

Essentially, what you've claimed is a Neighborizing Jailkeeper. But you called it a Neighborizing Marshall.

I think I'm slightly different than a Jailkeeper because other people can still use non-killing actions on someone who is jailkept right?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I'm asking because your claim doesn't make sense, and I think you made it up using terminology from another game/site.

Though unfortunately, that hypothesis doesn't seem to align with your answers...

Is it possible that Korina is the one borrowing terms from other sites?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Did sheep claim to you

Yea

[KatyKimFanClub]

I'd like to vouch that being in neighborhood with kkfc made me go from idk about him to thinking he's very town

this is a very uninformed player

when he was scum he felt much more calculated and self-conscious

1) LOL at the second line

2) were you in Mini Normal 2303? Or did you just read up on my scum meta.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Can we get KKFC to commit to targeting a specific Mason so we can plan night actions better? Preferably Abnegation/Radical Rat who don't have usable night actions anymore

Sure.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I'll neighborize Radical Rat tonight unless something serious changes in the remaining claims or something mechanical comes up.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Basically, unless there's a strong need for the Alien component of the role, I am happy with this plan.

[KatyKimFanClub]

What makes you think there wasn't already a WIFOM element to it?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Once the massclaim is over we can figure out non-Masons who are/can be mechanically cleared. I'm already thinking of one.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Unless Sheep is cult leader, he is actually one of the few people I can confidently say is not culted.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Ok after further research most Marshall's on this site have been the SC2 Mafia version where they're an IC that allows multiple lims to happen per day after they reveal, which makes me think the Alien part of KKFC's claim could be bullshit and sheep/his CL culted KKFC n1/n2. KKFC probably was originally Neighborizer Marshall though which is why he crumbed it

This is a valid concern. Still, there are enough circumstantial things that I hope clears me.

VOTE: WhemeStar this role seems more likely to flip scum than I originally thought.

I actually was willing to originally unvote WhemeStar since the TA claim seemed real. Then I read a lot of posts like Rauth's 2163 again and realized that from my point of view it should basically be a scum claim.

I actually realize that this all could have still happened if I were a neighborizing (SC2 Mafia) Marshall that had been culted, but I return with my second super important piece of evidence, which is

who the fuck is culting me n1 this game

?

I'm mainly disappointed in myself for not softing what a marshall does. Then again, I was mainly just really confused with why my role name was Marshall. I wouldn't be surprised if my Flavor Name was Marshall just like WhemeStar was Eric, honestly.

Also, I just remembered this at the end of my post, but if I was originally an (SC2 Mafia) Marshall and I was culted, then couldn't I just not bring up that I crumbed Marshall Day 1? No one would ever have found it, with it not being a real role on the Wiki anyways. I could have just said I was a Neighborizing roleblocker or something. At my level of play, I don't think anyone is going to be suspicious of me for not crumbing.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Eh, reading my above post, I don't do a really good job defending myself when I'm town because a lot of my arguments boil down to just psychology or WIFOM.

I'm confident I can clear myself via my night action.

[KatyKimFanClub]

The wording on my role ability is different than what I am reading on the Wiki or other games on this site for Alien, Roleblocker, and Rolestopper. I am going to look for more clarification.

[KatyKimFanClub]

If there's a Cult would the mod disclose that fact?

Checks out I think?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I think so. Rauth will be on V/LA for a decent amount of time, though.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Is the continuation of your logic here that Ircher left that off his roleclaim because it's basically a scumclaim in a game with this many tony investigatives?

[KatyKimFanClub]

town* oof

[KatyKimFanClub]

Problems Time:

1. No one claimed to have put Drew in (this was expected)

2. No one claimed the public TA result on me (this should have happened)

No one claimed the redirect power from N1 either right.

[KatyKimFanClub]

could we ask if someone can EITHER redirect, force someone in the nightmare, or can publish a mod message"

So the nightmare forcing is a day ability, but the other two are night ones. Do you think we could be dealing with another Mafia JOAT?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Oh, you right.

[KatyKimFanClub]

The wording on my role ability is different than what I am reading on the Wiki or other games on this site for Alien, Roleblocker, and Rolestopper. I am going to look for more clarification.

any update on this?

Got sidetracked, sorry.

My role works as follows:

Each night, I can target another player in the game and attempt to add them to my neighborhood. Anyone I target cannot be targeted by anyone else nor take any actions the night I target them.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Also, not using an ability night 1 also seems really off.

I was going to use tracker, but uh. I missed night start and end. I'm fine with lending my kills to town to decide

How'd you manage to miss all five Night Start PMs?

[KatyKimFanClub]

An Alien's night action targets a player, attempting to prevent any night action made by that player, and any night action (other than the Alien's) targeting that player. (Factional kills are night actions, and are blocked the same way that any other night action would be.)

so KKFC's claim is a renamed Alien

Yes

[KatyKimFanClub]

We can do Rauth too tbh, I'm content to let multiball scum eat each other alive rn

-A

Is voting Rauth related to letting multiball scum fight eachother?

[KatyKimFanClub]

if its a mentor like last game then I think its possible

Can you elaborate on this? What exactly was the cult role last game? I thought it was gated.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Right now, assuming that the mason traitor went through and Mafia traitor did not go through, a TA randomly picking someone out of 17 others on night one would have had:

4 masons
4 scum

that would have given positives. I don't think a 50% positive rate and 50% accuracy for finding non-town is that bad? It changes as the game progresses though.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Ok, I can see a lot of the suspicion directed towards me now.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Especially because the Backrooms is like *the* example of a liminal space?

[KatyKimFanClub]

I guess I should say I think Ircher is either fake claiming, or KKFC is cult.

Would it make you feel better if we flipped Ircher and then directed town investigations towards me?

[KatyKimFanClub]

Beyond an investigation clearing me, it can also clear sheep from being cult since I've alien'ed him twice.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Well, the way I see it, there's basically no way an Alarmist role is going to exist without a cult, so maybe it's worth flipped Ircher to figure that out? He only has one shot left anyways.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I also just suspect the passive redirect thing to be a scum power in this setup.

[KatyKimFanClub]

VOTE: Ircher

[KatyKimFanClub]

Last game scum roles and modifiers:

JOAT (hammerer, strongman ninja, loyal doctor, announcing bus driver)
Compulsive Inverse Public Role Inquisitor
1-shot bulletproof godfather flavor cop
Jailkeeper

There are some things that might have carried over from last game to this, like the inverse public role investigative role, the strongman ninja, and the bus driver.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I guess doing any analysis along these lines just boils down to mod WIFOM.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Exactly, claiming Mason or Neighbor in a game that already has Masons or Neighbors won't work.

[KatyKimFanClub]

if we're going in 7p direction I think I should be included

Why? Sell yourself to me.

sheepsaysmeep couldn't have acted either N1 or N2. Scum already have a flipped strongman, therefore, sheep is near-certainly not one. As sheep is confirmed to have not acted, any unaccounted for action couldn't originate from him. Therefore, sheep's almost certainly town.

Yes, I wanted to hide this logic because I was uncertain how many scumteam members there are. If there are two unclaimed night abilities from N1 (redirect if it's an active ability and then the public scum TA) then sheep is confirmed town.

[KatyKimFanClub]

It's not confirmed, sorry.

But there are enough unclaimed roles that I'm very confident sheep is town.
Someone had to have TA'ed RR N1, and someone redirected the investigation off Ircher N1.

That's why I want to know if that's a passive ability Ircher's role has, because if it isn't, since sheep was roleblocked N1, then sheep can't be mafia-aligned.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I don't think sheep can be confirmed until there are more flips but it's something that reduces the probability enough I think sheep is a good shout for a 7p nightmare.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I think ultimately it comes down to how many scum are remaining.

In a world with 2 scum + traitor, it's possible that traitor had the bus driver role, one had the public TA, and then I've just been roleblocking sheep endlessly haha.