Final Fantasy 6 Mafia - Game Over

[MacDougall]

I just skimmed the thread and vaguely think Parama is scum. I will re-read it when it's not so hot and I haven't just got back from my bday beach weekend and need sleep.

[MacDougall]

MacDougall your contributions thus far are astounding, keep up the good work.

Lol I know right, but seriously this game started the morning of my birthday which I then spent the following two days in a beach side paradise and went deep sea fishing and shit. No time for Mafia!

Kise is in a neighbourhood I am also in fwiw. That doesn't necessarily mean that he is town as it was stated in the PM that neighborhoods have nothing to do with alignment. In the neighborhood chat he was jokingly posting under the alias "faketell" and said that he was scum and to reveal ourselves so he could kill us. A clever piece of reverse psychology or the overt town actions of a vanilla townie?

[MacDougall]

So wait.
If Kise is Edgar, then you are Sabin?

No, I am Cid, but understand that I know nothing of FF6.

is it just you and kise?

No, but I won't reveal any others in case they don't want me to. Suffice to say that I feel no reason to hide the neighborhood for my own reasons, and revealing that Kise is in one just before it appears he is going to be lynched seems fair to me.

wait why did you claim your neighborhood? -_-

I honestly don't see the need to hide it? I thought it was a good idea to at least let everyone know that Kise is in one and give you all the knowledge on him I have that you don't. It's interesting to note that the (at least one) other player that is in the neighborhood has clearly chosen not to reveal that, and I find that at least a little strange, but in honesty I felt that Kise's behaviour in the neighborhood was rather town, and didn't feel threatened by him at all. He revealed his identity in the chat after the other player said that "it's scummy to hide your identity in here", I followed suit when I returned. Up until that point we had all hidden our identities at least at some point.

If Kise is lynched and flips scum I would say that the other player is a confirmed town due to the fact that they very obviously had no idea that it was Kise in there imo.

[MacDougall]

REDACTED AND PENDING MOD ACTION

[MacDougall]

Apologies, it wasn't an intentional rule break. Pays to read the rules thoroughly.

[MacDougall]

Apologies to Kise as well as he was the one most affected by it.

[MacDougall]

The neighbourhood members are those that hold the item Magitek Armor. That's all. Other than that we're all VT afaik.

VOTE: Icerint

His setup speculation is grasping at some serious straws and I know it to be at least partly creative fabrication due to my alignment. He also sharply changed his vocabulary when pressured and started using fancier words and phrasing himself poorly, which I find a scumtell.

There is only one other person that I know of in the neighbourhood, though there could be more non contributing members. I think there's a strong chance that at least one neighbourhood member is scum due to the flavour of the neighbourhood (it's pointed out by the mod that it's not a straight townie neighbourhood).

[MacDougall]

There is only one other person that I know of in the neighbourhood, though there could be more non contributing members. I think there's a strong chance that at least one neighbourhood member is scum due to the flavour of the neighbourhood (it's pointed out by the mod that it's not a straight townie neighbourhood).

Well I mean that I am VT other than that, so the other townies in there are assumedly VT I guess?

[MacDougall]

But did I get the treasure!?

[MacDougall]

Quick someone vote me.

[MacDougall]

Shit thanks man.

[MacDougall]

It's okay.

I'm daybulletproof.

[MacDougall]

Also, the notion that Gogo would at least start VT should not be surprising to anyone who knows FFVI. Not sure what the status all the players who seem confused by the claim is re: this detail.

Well, I've never played it...

According to the wiki though, you only meet Gogo if you are "engulfed by a Zone Eater", which doesn't sound very good.

Gogo is "A self-described master of simulacrum", which is basically a mimic. It even says he "mimic

the party's desire to save the world" - aka he doesn't actually have a desire to save the world, he's just pretending (sounds like what scum do in mafia - lol)

Also says Gogo was an enemy in Final Fantasy 5...


Overall doesn't sound like a town character to me! lol

So I was thinking about this over the weekend (I'm always V/LA on weekends)
, and I realized that the early claim by Timeater was stupid, and all the flavor speculation was even more stupid, but there's something that was straight up scummy and it was Zeek saying that Gogo could be scum because he was an enemy in FF5. The first thing that scum want to do when someone comes out as plausible town, is discredit them.

VOTE: Zeek

Yeah and he is trying to sow seeds of doubt to my town credulity as well. I'm cool with a Zeek lynch.

[MacDougall]

@SRG: Let's think about the Neighborhood thing a minute because I'm curious about it too. Like MacDougal, I'm of the belief that a neighborhood, very rarely is all town. According to MD, we know there are 3 people in the neighborhood. As soon as one of those three die, it's pretty telling/logical what the alignments of the the others are. Obviously, if the dead player is town, the town member of the last two will be fairly certain the other is scum, the scum member will have to pretend. If the dead player is scum, then I would say it is pretty darn close to confirming the other two town.

As of now they say the third member has asked to remain unanimous. This is also the member that MD said called Kise and MD out for hiding their identities in the QT. MD also states that that player had no idea who the others were meaning that there are no more than 1 scum in the neighborhood.

Now the main question is, do we demand the third neighbor or let them stay hidden?

I think that should be left to the 2 already revealed people in the group, since their choices in this may help to determine who may or may not be scum within the group.

I hadn't actually thought of the astounding contradiction the 3rd member seems to be making, I don't think it clears things up fully though, by the sounds of it that person was open to at least some amount of transparency and may have reasons not to want to be outted at this point in the game. The people involved in this neighbourhood though need to be careful and go some way into trying to gain reads into each other and revealing things they feel need to be.

@MD - Do you think a player in the neighbourhood is scum?
do you feel you have a good idea of who that is?
How likely do you feel that neither are and infact as you suggested there could be someone else you do not know of reading your topic who may themselves be scum?

I have no reason to believe there is one other than the fact that it seems like it should be so, so no I haven't got a good idea of who that is. I think it's more likely the third player that's scum, not Kise, but yes there is also the possibility that there is another player who has refrained from speaking, maybe even two.

[MacDougall]

I like RedFF as scum too tbh. It's scummy to just active lurk and take pot shots at random things he finds quirky.

[MacDougall]

Hey TheFool are you scum?

[MacDougall]

I will be away for the next 5 days. I might pop in from time to time but consider me v/la.

[MacDougall]

I'd just like to say that I'm pretty confident that icerint is scum. "I wish I had a dayvig" is town cred gathering white noise nonsense type shit.

[MacDougall]

vote TheFool

I'm not sure I'm going to be able to contribute to this game in any great way. I have some personal things happening.

[MacDougall]

sorry

vote TheFool

[MacDougall]

I'm not scum but I really can't summon the motivation to defend myself. I don't think it's because of the gap either. I was losing motivation beforehand. I've just played crap and deserve the consequences.

If my lynch doesn't end the game ... I don't even know where I was going with this.

[MacDougall]

I guess SoO is solo scum tbh. If I was to just assume the most likely thing is the truth.

[MacDougall]

Forgot where I was at tbh.

unvote

[MacDougall]

Well if it's so unanimous just hurry the fuck up and vote for me then. What the shit is taking so long?

[MacDougall]

I think diddin is scum because SoO and TheFool look town through play and claim respectively, despite both being more likely. Other than his role related intel diddin has been pretty quiet and stand offish, and his only scum find was on a player who was already fucked on that day anyway. Mist looks townier than WC if you are to assume diddin is scum and has lied about one of you. I would say that diddin/WC scum team is the most logical, but the only way anybody else is going to entertain that thought is upon my flip because it's just far more likely that I am scum the way things have worked it out. The unfortunate side effect of that is that once I go, if you and he really are the scum then so long as you get a kill off that's game, but I see no alternative. I cannot see a way that I am going to change anybodies minds here and I am getting annoyed the longer it is taking because all it is doing is giving you more opportunities to call my play poor, which annoys the shit out of me because you've played just as bad as me and have been right about absolutely nothing, as opposed to me having scum reads on two scum players.

Using reverse logic, claims aside WC looks the scummiest through play and for him to be scum that makes diddin scum (or WC a name godfather). I also find it weird that diddin hasn't use his night action on me, but that could be for a variety of reasons.

Although I am sure you'll find something wrong with this post. There's something wrong with everything I post it seems.

Anyway...

vote diddin

And it will stay there.

[MacDougall]

unvote

vote diddin

Sorry.

[MacDougall]

Lol I've got nothing to say. I have lost track of who did what and where and one of you is lying. Diddin is the liar imo.

[MacDougall]

Go to the archives and read the day that TS changed their "town read" on me to scum when Timeater caught SpyreX. Evidently all that casing on TS and trying to drum it into peoples heads was moot and makes me scum "distancing" or something.

[MacDougall]

I know but what about my posts!

I'm just bummed that my successful casing of TS is being ignored in favour of the theory that I am scum and crap.

[MacDougall]

TheFool as scum would have no reason to protect diddin. No counter claim on that night clears TheFool. I am most confident that he is town.
SoO has literally no reason as scum to have outed TS at that juncture. SoO must be town.
For either of WC or Mist to be scum, diddin must also be scum. It's entirely possible that neither of them are scum. In that case, diddin is the last scum.
I am 100% sure that diddin is scum, one way or another.

As far as him getting no result on me last night, I just plain don't buy it. Why would his action have failed on SoO, theamateur AND me? If there was a roleblocker why did this player allow him to get actions through to clear Mist and WC? Who had their night actions blocked on these nights? Why wouldn't he have just been roleblocked every night, especially since we had apparent confirmation of his claim when he got a guilty on TS. If he were town and did that, the scum would be roleblocking him every night. Yet they allowed him to get through two out of three times since then.

[MacDougall]

Keep in mind that diddin's only guilty came on a player who SoO had already found a scum slip on and most were ready to lynch anyway. An obvious bus. Especially since diddin made sure he was in the assumed position of gaining all of TS's items. His play aside from that has been very detached and pretty much unhelpful.

Plus, he's still alive. Plus, he's inexplicably got no result on me, a townie, SoO, also most likely a townie and TheAmateur a dead townie, while having somehow managed to squeeze through his actions, getting around this alleged roleblocker, to confirm two other players as town. And this information all winds up neatly on a day that could very well be LYLO if there are two scum remaining which seems likely.

Oh and his OMGUS on me for today as well.

[MacDougall]

P-edit: Well just so we know you aren't faking your play, mind sharing your hypothetical thought?

Okay, I'm going to try to rationalise all this information as best I can.

Him being jailkept last night could explain why that kill didn't happen. Could be because he's the scum? But for him to be the scum there'd have to be a reason there was no NK on the night TheFool allegedly targeted him. For him to be the scum, he'd have to be on team with TheFool and they both decided to no NK? Now that I am thinking straight I guess the only way diddin = scum is ... with TheFool but more likely is that TheFool is solo scum because with two scum left, they are so close to winning that foregoing a night kill for cred is pointless. That kind of gambit is the work of a solo scum that is lacking credibility.

If SoO is scum, that means he bussed TS out of nowhere for no reason.
If TheFool is scum then he intentionally didn't kill anybody to make his claim believable.
For WC or Mist to be scum, diddin must be lying or one of them is a name godfather but I think both of them have been confirmed as having the items they say they have, by timeater? At least Mist did iirc.
If diddin is scum, then how does him being doctor protected by TheFool = no nk when no other actions happened?

Most likely last night's no night kill was a result of an attempt on diddin's life being blocked by a jailkeep from confirmed Mist. If this is on the up and up then WC is town. For the sake of sanity I am going to put my doubts about that to rest and just hope that is all as it seems.

I suppose either SoO really did bus twilight_sparkle out of nowhere or TheFool intentionally didn't night kill. I suppose the latter isn't such a stretch if he considered the possibility that his kill wouldn't even work due to a successful jail from Mist? SoO bussing TS just doesn't make any sense considering TS held all the items.

So ...

unvote
vote TheFool

All signs are pointing to one scum remaining to me, so I'm not going to fight it if you decide to lynch me. As far as I can tell the only possibilities of a two person scum team being in play involve me being a part of it, which I know not to be the case. So if you need to lynch me to get clarity then do it. The solo scum is very clearly either SoO or TheFool and I think WC will be proven to have been right about TheFool wayyyy back when.

[MacDougall]

yes,
i'm pretty sure scum knew the lynch mechanics ahead of time when the game started...
in order to cover their bases on the days when the wagon leader would get the items i'm sure a few of them would start different wagons..
i want to see if there is a pattern between the wagon leaders, and compare it to the days when it would be the hammer that got it. see if there is a pattern between the 2...such as certain people always leading a wagon on leader days, and always waiting on hammer days..

Interesting, but what was the thought you had that didn't "line up".

[MacDougall]

Sweet contributions diddin.

After the last two posts from SoO I am very confident he is town, even more so than before. TheFool must have just not killed for cred.

Lynch me tonight, then diddin use your strongman kill on TheFool during the night? Would that work?

[MacDougall]

Passive abilities have items associated too, like the neighbourhood admitting magitek armor. So Mist is vanilla, and town due to diddin's action. I find it interesting that despite me sitting at L-2 for ages, and TheFool having a scum read on me, he hasn't put me at L-1. Very town play for the only possible scum player. Doesn't apply so much to SoO as scum he would look weird just changing his mind to put me at L-1, but he is town for other reasons.

A thought has been plaguing me for a while, but what if the lack of night kills is due to the fact that there is no scum left? Like we just have a rogue with limited or no night kills left, or the scum night kill ability was associated with the Bahamat Magicite that is now in diddin's hands? Is it possible that the scum could have no power to kill anymore?

[MacDougall]

Passive abilities have items associated too

not necessarily, MD
Given Pidgey's name and roletitle on his flip, he would be an example of having an ability without an item...
I'm pretty sure flavor GF would be passive and avail only to the GF

Hmm okay then well your thought process does have some merit then.

I actually am starting to doubt Foolscum too just due to him not voting on me quickly. Something Mist did. Getting pissy and trading out would be a bizarre thing for a scum player to do though.

[MacDougall]

It would be bizarre for the last scum to welcome his lynch but okay...

@wc: TheFool was the first to say it. TS said it loudest and longest (hence why I was so baffled by the vote on me when timeater soft claimed investigating me and made a scum read on TS for it). Parama said I was town. Lol Kise jokingly said I was about to get mod-killed for being "too confirmed." Life was better before everybody changed their mind lol.

Lol even diddin said I was "almost confirmed town".

@SRG: Let's think about the Neighborhood thing a minute because I'm curious about it too. Like MacDougal, I'm of the belief that a neighborhood, very rarely is all town. According to MD, we know there are 3 people in the neighborhood. As soon as one of those three die, it's pretty telling/logical what the alignments of the the others are. Obviously, if the dead player is town, the town member of the last two will be fairly certain the other is scum, the scum member will have to pretend. If the dead player is scum, then I would say it is pretty darn close to confirming the other two town.

As of now they say the third member has asked to remain unanimous. This is also the member that MD said called Kise and MD out for hiding their identities in the QT. MD also states that that player had no idea who the others were meaning that there are no more than 1 scum in the neighborhood.

Now the main question is, do we demand the third neighbor or let them stay hidden?

Lol weird post in hindsight... Not like OMG weird, but ... weird nonetheless.

[MacDougall]

When Kise was almost lynched it was me that spoke up and informed everyone of the neighbourhood and that I had a town read on him. I suppose that was to gain town cred upon his night kill according to you all?

[MacDougall]

She might have just not believed his claim that his passive ability deactivates when he uses an active ability, which makes sense for her not to believe, because it's uhh not believable?

[MacDougall]

Well by the time this game had started I had played about 6 or 7 games. Now I have played about 30. On the other site I play the games go a lot quicker (I'm also considered one of the best players haha).

I don't think my self watch is as bad as you all think tbh. I did it expecting to be targeted to be killed, but also expecting one of these protective roles to protect me. At that stage of the game everybody had a town read on me and I had just acquired at item through the wagon so I thought the scum would take me out then and there. I figured I was certain to be targeted by the kill that night and as a result just thought the best option was to self watch. If I died and targeted somebody else it would have been equally as irrelevant, so I was relying on the fact that I would also be protected based on the fact that I was "confirmed town" to so many and a similar thought my occur to someone with a protective ability. Being that it was a one shot ability I was trying to go for a hail mary type play with it. Of course, in hindsight I would have done different, maybe, but I was very sure I was dying that night anyway...

Considering how easy it would be to lynch me today and remove another townie I'm now convinced of my reads on TheFool and SoO as town. I am still suspicious of diddin and WC but would certainly prefer a Mist lynch to my own, I just hope we don't have lylo tomorrow because I will be very distracting to any potential win unless diddin survives and identifies me.

[MacDougall]

Why would MacD self-target on a watch? It's like the worst play ever, only slightly less if you are scum. Why did that item disappear after one use while all others remained with less effectiveness. Something is wrong with that story. It doesn't feel right.

Agreed, it especially doesn't match up with Mist's every-other-day JK, considering the Queen's Guard should have degraded twice (Iec > TS > Mist).

Mist lied then.

[MacDougall]

Cid, Magicite Scientist

[MacDougall]

PS I'm 100% certain Diddin is town. He claimed an investigative role Day 2 and as scum that would be an enormous risk especially after they bussed Funky.

Scum namecop claims to be a town namecop... How is that an enormous risk? The fact that you find this reason to consider him 100% confirmed town is bizarre in the extreme.

[MacDougall]

And hi Kunk! Thanks for replacing in so late.

[MacDougall]

So you don't think it'd be beneficial for a scum player to go through the archive and post the claims and actions? Especially considering all the night actions of any relevance should be memorized by us by now anyway, I think that is wifom.

Also SoO has done his share of that too, yet you give the town read to WC and TheFool but ignore his contributions...

[MacDougall]

PS I'm 100% certain Diddin is town. He claimed an investigative role Day 2 and as scum that would be an enormous risk especially after they bussed Funky.

Scum namecop claims to be a town namecop... How is that an enormous risk? The fact that you find this reason to consider him 100% confirmed town is bizarre in the extreme.

How do explain the fact that a fake guilty would have already won the game for Diddin?

You yourself are strongly entertaining the idea that there is a solo scum left, so how can you say that? At this stage of the game (for a solo scum) a fake guilty would get him one lynch and then at night he MAY get a kill (going on recent nights that might not be as simple as it appears) and then he'd be lynched for lying. Though we can deduce that diddin can't be solo scum because one of Mist and TheFool would be privy to it, and scum too in which case your argument then has merit. Despite that, I wasn't calling into question diddin's towniness, I was calling into questioning your reasoning for saying he was 100% confirmed. The reasoning that you seem to have very quickly replaced with something else. Why is it that you only mentioned this easily explained "enormous risk" as your defining statement on his towniness and not the subsequent reason?

I will admit he is the most likely to be town bordering on confirmed, I just don't like the way you are seemingly lying, or at the very least trying to exaggerate the significance of what you are saying. Townies don't play like this WC... You should know, seeing as you are so fantastic at this game compared to me.

"SomeRandomGuy

User avatar
Joined: October 14, 2010
Location: England
Gender: Male

Post #???? » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:50 pm

In my opinion nothing has changed regarding Zeek - at least not until we know that Diddins power does not pick up on fake claim names.

Part of Zeeks whole case against him is the speculation on character names, some being obvi town just because of flavour, others being less so etc - with a name like Sabin you could understand why he might push that idea, it's ground work for his fake claim to seem trustable.

I don't like that Diddin presented this as having an Inno on Zeek.

"

Here SRG (SCUM) continues to try to push the Zeek (TOWN DOC) case calling Diddin's claim into doubt. Diddin is town deal with it.

Meh, means nothing. Diddin could easily have just revealed his real result on Zeek and employed SRG to try to get Zeek lynched for it regardless. And it worked. As unlikely as that may be. The best case for diddin town lies in the fact that he hasn't employed a fake guilty. But even that has holes because even if he is part of a two person scum team that's still active, there is obviously a player out there blocking scum night kills (or the scum have limited kills, something is preventing them) so blatantly faking a guilty and then failing to produce a night kill would not get him a win, it'd get him lynched for lying. So he just votes for me and produces no result... and begs my lynch. All unlikely I admit but your hastiness in overlooking the possibilities plus your manipulative desire to put him out of our minds is certainly cause for concern. Put yourself in my position. Considering my lynch is most likely at the moment and admittedly probably has the best case for it I have to entertain some unlikely scenarios to find the real scum.

unvote
vote Kunk

Simply the most likely.

[MacDougall]

MoI I voted for Kunk.

[MacDougall]

MoI I voted for Kunk.

Sorry I just woke up. I dunno what I think I saw lol.

[MacDougall]

You haven't even read the archive. Also since when does having scum reads on everyone make me scum? I'm just confused.

But by all means sell it hard.

[MacDougall]

unvote
vote MacDougall

Go on. Hammer me. I just want this game to end.

Not scum though. I just don't want to play anymore.

[MacDougall]

WrathChild has pretty much said "MacDougall's play is poor" in every single post for the past 2 months. It's okay WC. We get it. You don't have to be a total and utter prick about it.

[MacDougall]

unvote

[MacDougall]

I am town for a wide variety of reasons that extend further than "his play has been poor." There's no need to point out where because it's been said multiple times. WC has directed this lynch on me the entire time but when it comes down to it, his vote on me looks meek and he won't be accountable for it.

Hell WC is scum just because he was in the neighbourhood and Kise wasn't scum. He also just sat idly by and watched as Kise was getting railroaded for a lynch and offered nothing to prevent it, who did? Oh and what alignment was Kise? Oh yeah...

WC

and it's staying there. There is a large part of the vote that is just hate for how rude you have been to me WC.

[MacDougall]

That post where WC said that diddin + Mist unequivocally could NOT be scum together is a doozy in hindsight lol. Even considering I was basically the only one with a scum read on diddin at all that one post by WC was the spanner in the works that prevented me from being able to reason it out completely.

I think in future I will be a little less wordy and check and double check my posts with facts lol. Though going back in this thread to check if what I'm saying is right was tedious as fuck.

Well played scum.

Can we read the scum QT's?