Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy (Game Over)
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Kublai Khan Khan Man
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Kublai Khan Khan Man
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Also, keep in mind that scum PMs usually list the names and characters of scummates and I think it's a fair assumption that both Harry potter and metal gear characters are scum. So Jason made a pretty strong town tell by not properly knowing the game theme.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 22, BloodCovenent wrote:would it make more sense to lynch Acosmist relatively soon (before lets say... day 3), than leave him alive being unconfirmed?
Would it make more sense to lynch BloodCovenent relatively soon (before lets say... day 3), than leave him alive being unconfirmed? Why are you pushing a policy lynch?
You're not funny or original. Plus you're more likely to be scum since you're consciously trying to limit information that others can learn about you. So congrats.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Kublai Khan Khan Man
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In post 40, Benmage wrote:In post 29, Kublai Khan wrote:Also, keep in mind that scum PMs usually list the names and characters of scummates and I think it's a fair assumption that both Harry potter and metal gear characters are scum. So Jason made a pretty strong town tell by not properly knowing the game theme.
If you believe him incapable of being skilled enough to fake such a statement. Do you?
jasonT1981 is a skilled player, however the statement reads as genuine to me.
In post 40, Benmage wrote:B) Seems more like an open discussion. Have you never seen Kublai Khans game where he opened claiming Miller AND WON. KK, step in here if you will. Lets just say, there's plenty of good players in here, who had the pregame to discuss, and may have sought to take a gamble with a player like Acomists.
*steps in*
I wouldn't have advised it. The path of fakeclaim Day 1 --> victory is probably littered with more failures than successes. I only won because of a series of lucky circumstances. If Acomists is scum, then he's limited himself in what he is capable of doing for his scum team. I'd prefer to treat it as any other unprovable claim. Lynch him if a case can be made on his play.
In post 41, Benmage wrote:I think I'd rather do a MOD meta of Pappums... I'm not sure I'm sold on the idea of a PGO. AND SOLID SNAKE????? Dudes the muthafuckin l33t assassin.... PGO??? PGO??? You're looking at a JoaT, strongarm vig... Something like that, but PGO....... doubting it tbh.
Who loses when we play a game of "outguess the mod"? Town does.
For all we know character names have nothing to do with role abilities. This isn't a path worth traveling.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Names wrong?Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 8, jasonT1981 wrote:argh, muck about when its not 2.30am. I really need to sleep.. I feel dead. See you in the tomorrow
This feels like an overlooked piece of information.
I mean, obviously he faked it so he could jump on a post made one minute later to achieve a masterful scum strategy of town-telling to the point where he'd never be considered for a lynch for the rest of the game.
Obviously.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 55, Benmage wrote:In post 54, Kublai Khan wrote:Going by your ISO you seem more interested in mud-slinging than trying to make sense of anything.
*peer* where did I mudsling?
A) Pushing the idea that jasonT1981 is deliberately faking a towntell.
B) Referrencing the game where I fakeclaimed miller out of nowhere
C) Casting aspersions on the Solid Snake/PGO claim via mod meta
D) Accusing me of buddying for arguing a POV.
Mind you it's only page 3 so the examples aren't full-blown attempts at anything, but there does seem to be a pattern emerging where you're playing up suspicion/paranoia and devaluing any early town reads.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 57, Benmage wrote:A)I didn't really push this. I only questioned the quick town write off. I don't understand how this can be considered mudslinging.
B) In reference to Acomists PGO claim. Basically here he says No trackers/watchers/cops check me out or you'll die. Considering you have experience with early scum fakeclaims. I know Faraday once had a shitty partner of his also fakeclaim MILLER and GO ON TO WIN. I don't see how stating this info isn't worthwild, and certainly not out of nowhere. Moreoever I do have a lingering question for Acomist. I'm actually surprised how quickly you also wrote him off as town. Whats the nice buzz word... White Knighting?
C) Subjective. You might not like to play out guess the mod.. but knowing certain mod history can be beneficial. Some mods hate certain roles and will never use them. (More here, but again lingering question)
D) This is the only arguable "mud-sling".... But it doesn't negate the fact that it read like buddying behind a veil of sarcasm.
A) It's more of a "denying the positive accentuates the negative" type of thing.
B) I never said Acosmist was town. I just said I wasn't going to policy lynch him.
C) I'd rather ignore the mod altogether. Makes things simpler.
D) Well, it's not. I saw a town-tell and a bandwagon formed on it. So I tried to prevent a bad lynch. If that's buddying to you then you have a very broad definition of the word.
In post 57, Benmage wrote:-What would be my hypo agenda in devaluing early town reads, and playing up certain paranoia?
--Certaintly you can't be thinking my master plan is to stop town reads from forming... that'd be absurd.
---Paranoia? A million tangents, noone trust noone? Meh... You think I'm aiming to be an early game scum Ring Leader? (Take another gander at the playerlist)
It's possible. I think that you do have the ego to make the attempt.
In post 60, I Am Innocent wrote:@KK, what are your thoughts on Zoroaster?
Well, overall it's obnoxious that his name is similar to the otter.
In this game his vote for jasont1981 is bad. Though his reasoning was bad, it seemed kinda earnest I guess. It's too early for a read, he needs to post more.
In post 80, BloodCovenent wrote:In post 79, Nero Cain wrote:Why are you role fishing?
flavor fishing. Glad someone else found it to be a scummy post.
It's more than flavor fishing. The VT PM is in the OP. He's PR-fishing.
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Vote: YatesOccasionally intellectually honest
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In post 103, Benmage wrote:In post 98, Kublai Khan wrote:
A) It's more of a "denying the positive accentuates the negative" type of thing.
B) I never said Acosmist was town. I just said I wasn't going to policy lynch him.
C) I'd rather ignore the mod altogether. Makes things simpler.
D) Well, it's not. I saw a town-tell and a bandwagon formed on it. So I tried to prevent a bad lynch. If that's buddying to you then you have a very broad definition of the word.
A) Subjective
B) So you yield your initial point.
C) Still Subjective
D) Buddying is Buddying. Town Buddy. Scum Buddy. You Buddy'd by my definition. It peaked more of an interest because you gave the impression of TWO quick town write offs without the need of further discussion. Jason/Aco (maybe I was wrong with the impression, but thats how it came across to me)
A&C) Well yeah. It's my point of view.
B) I'm a little lost. What was my original point that I am apparently yielding now?
D) That's sorta become my playstyle for day 1. Since there are so many players and there's so little information, I find it easier to just narrow my focus by systematically ignoring people that town-tell or for whatever reason aren't going to be lynched Day 1. That doesn't mean I will continue to ignore them throughout the game. At the start of Day 2 is where the real scum-hunting begins.
In post 103, Benmage wrote:In post 98, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 80, BloodCovenent wrote:In post 79, Nero Cain wrote:Why are you role fishing?
flavor fishing. Glad someone else found it to be a scummy post.
It's more than flavor fishing. The VT PM is in the OP. He's PR-fishing.
Unvote
Vote: Yates
Can you link me a segment of game where scum actually are PR-fishing? I've seen this been accused of people a million times as something scum do. I don't think I've ever seen the accusation correct nor seen scum actually PR fishing.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p1720457
(yeah, yeah I was scum. But Mastin was scum as well and was totally fishing for flavor.)
NOTE TO EVERYONE: THIS DISCUSSION IS VERY DANGEROUS.The vanilla PM is in the OP. Read it. All VTs are given is a role name and that's it. If anyone alleges to have any more information than that then they are not a VT.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 108, Yates wrote:Also bear in mind the fact I never asked Jason to provide flavor nor did I ask Jason to provide his character.
Except you did. If Jason has any flavor, then he's not a VT.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 131, Nero Cain wrote:Is Zoroaster and zoraster the same person?
Two different accounts. I'm assuming two different people.
In post 138, Benmage wrote:My mistake on the selfvote. Iso still reads bleh.
So Zabriel's ISO still reads bleh when you don't consider the nonexistent self-vote that you thought you saw? Did you even actually ISO him the first time you were asked?
In post 145, Tammy wrote:If I wanted to vote Yates, I would. And I almost did for the reason I don't like about Yates; however, I don't agree with the reason for the wagon building. I'm having trouble reconciling scum Yates with this line of questioning he's been going through. I would imagine he would back down a bit and stop being so insistent about it as it's getting him votes.
Hmm. Good point, actually.
unvote
In post 160, rapidcanyon wrote:Kublai Khan's 30 came off as scummy. My self-vote was RVS vote, no reason to treat it as anything but, just because I chose myself to RVS vote.
Do you know what RVS stands for? How was your self-vote "random"?
In post 160, rapidcanyon wrote:I don't see any information "limiting" coming from a self-vote. This FOS seems completely fabricated. Checking back to see Kublai Khan's posts, he was way too quick to say that Jason towntelled for a very poor reason (not reading the setup). He also doesn't vote me. Why the weak FOS and no vote? It almost seems as if he is hoping someone would pick up that FOS.
Holy crap, you're so new to mafia I'm not even sure where to start..
A) You limited what early reads can be gotten on you by self-voting. When you self-voted you neglected to comment on anything previous that had happened. You didn't join any current wagons. You didn't link yourself to anyone by voting them. In sum, self-voting means that you've avoided interacting with anyone until you can get a cold read on them first. That's why I called it scummy behavior.
B) The FOS was completely fabricated. By you. I never FOSed you. Your action was certainly scummy, but your join date is so recent that I'm undecided on how to interpret it just yet.
C) Don't assume you know my reasons for doing stuff if you're not going to bother to read my posts. Read Post 29 for the reason that jasonT1981 town-telled. I know it's a whole one post back from the post addressed to you, but keep in mind that I rarely fluff post so if I post something in the game thread, it's worth reading.
D) I didn't vote you because my vote was on someone else (Zabriel) for a non-random reason.
In post 160, rapidcanyon wrote:I can see scum motivation behind making me look suspicious (achieve a mislynch)
That all said. You're probably town because of the line quoted above. It's so mind-blowingly naive and adorably self-centered that I doubt someone with a scum PM would think that it would fly as a cover story. Which is awesome because now I can just ignore you the rest of Day 1.
In post 169, Yates wrote:I learned that sometimes people need to stfu and let the subject of a question answer a question for themselves
Fine, fine. Shutting up.
Will put a vote down next post (tomorrow).Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 172, rapidcanyon wrote:@ Kublai Khan, you reason for believing I am town is odd, to say the least. It seems like something scum would come up with to have a townread. Calling a post "too bad to be scum" is rarely something that town would do? If my posts seem scummy, why are you certain that I am town? Why no worry about possible scum when you see scummy posts? I doubt but anyone but scum would be so confident that a player is town because they find that player's posts bad, not good.
Because scummy actions and/or posts aren't necessarily somethingonlyscum do, just what scum tend to bemore likelyto do. In just about every game Town does scummy actions all the time. That's why it's important to look at context, circumstances, and mitigating factors. Looking at those is how I judged you to be town.
In post 173, ThAdmiral wrote:(@ kk: but I agree, his stubborness does seem town, doesn't it?)
Not sure whose stubborness you're referencing here (Yates or rapidcanyon). The answer would probably be yes either way though.
In post 186, Benmage wrote:What voting Acosmist? At the moment I think he's town, but its still so early. I wouldn't call what I'm saying is doubting him, I am more enlightening everyone to previously effective scum tactics. I think this is the second time you've made false undermining statements regarding me. (Maybe I'll gander later when I have more time)
I can't shake the fact that this really looks like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
"I think he's town!" "But his claim is totally something scum would fake!"
You're pro-activeness in pointing out potential scum strategies is rubbing me the wrong way. Why bring up what is basically a WIFOM argument so early in a game? Especially when you yourself don't think it's likely.
In post 203, zabriel wrote:I dunno, it's early day 1 and people have been going mad over stupid. People have been going apeshit over a claim based on a couple of fanboys bitching about Solid Snake being the most badass badass that ever badassed. And no, I didn't look at the vote count. I was just looking at the pressure in thread. That's what I meant by wagon.
"People" huh? You're obviously reading the game, but you're not keeping track of who is saying what. Which means that you're not actually scum-hunting.
Vote: zabrielOccasionally intellectually honest
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In post 242, Kise wrote:There's a lot of only speaking when spoken to, and I feel like the non-Kise lurkers were waiting for the dirt to fling on viable mislynchees. I feel that KK is wearing Ben down, possibly bussing zab and giving jason an unwarranted townslip pass. Not saying jason is scum, but I wouldn't quickly fall for someone "HO OH NO, Snake don't exist in Harry Potter game, hint hint I'm from Harry Potter theme". It was a loud comment by jason and, as referenced and linked, decepticon master KK's miller fakeclaim would (IMO) make him the last person to have their guard down. On that note, I have to figure out what KK's scum motivation is for calling jason town. BBL on that note, maybe/hopefully.
I'm trying to figure out exactly why you're voting me. It feels like it's essentially a "he's acting different than how I feel he should be acting" argument. To which I can only reply:
Have you actually read the game Kise, or did you just skim? Because I laid out the logical reason behind jasonT1981's towntell. I really don't see the logic behind your, well, ramblings. Make a longer post. One that makes more sense.
In post 243, jasonT1981 wrote:In post 242, Kise wrote:
p.edit: fck you daykiller for confirming day actions. But please, answer Aco..
Wait, am I reading this right? do you want to out the Day Killer? if so, why??????
Ugh @Kise {Way to not read the thread, Kise. Hint: See the VT/flavor discussion}
In post 260, zabriel wrote:That's the point that KK was making that I had liked. He disappeared after this, so I'm not sure if he was going to do anything with it.
Disappeared? It was 24 hours ago and Benmage just got around to replying to it.
Vote: zabriel(for reasons stated previously)
In post 273, ThAdmiral wrote:Update: I officially declare the zabriel wagon full of fail
Why?Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 242, Kise wrote:There's a lot of only speaking when spoken to, and I feel like the non-Kise lurkers were waiting for the dirt to fling on viable mislynchees. I feel that KK is wearing Ben down, possibly bussing zab and giving jason an unwarranted townslip pass. Not saying jason is scum, but I wouldn't quickly fall for someone "HO OH NO, Snake don't exist in Harry Potter game, hint hint I'm from Harry Potter theme". It was a loud comment by jason and, as referenced and linked, decepticon master KK's miller fakeclaim would (IMO) make him the last person to have their guard down. On that note, I have to figure out what KK's scum motivation is for calling jason town. BBL on that note, maybe/hopefully.
I'm trying to figure out exactly why you're voting me. It feels like it's essentially a "he's acting different than how I feel he should be acting" argument. To which I can only reply:
Have you actually read the game Kise, or did you just skim? Because I laid out the logical reason behind jasonT1981's towntell. I really don't see the logic behind your, well, ramblings. Make a longer post. One that makes more sense.
In post 243, jasonT1981 wrote:In post 242, Kise wrote:
p.edit: fck you daykiller for confirming day actions. But please, answer Aco..
Wait, am I reading this right? do you want to out the Day Killer? if so, why??????
Ugh @Kise {Way to not read the thread, Kise. Hint: See the VT/flavor discussion}
In post 260, zabriel wrote:That's the point that KK was making that I had liked. He disappeared after this, so I'm not sure if he was going to do anything with it.
Disappeared? It was 24 hours ago and Benmage just got around to replying to it.
Vote: zabriel(for reasons stated previously)
In post 273, ThAdmiral wrote:Update: I officially declare the zabriel wagon full of fail
Why?Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 276, ThAdmiral wrote:In post 216, zabriel wrote:I don't think much of any of the votes on me. They aren't really high on my list of shit I care about.
Look at this! This guy is town. I absolutely don't see a scum zabe faking the "I give 0 fucks" vibe. That reads genuine. I feel like scum zabe would be freaking the fuck out right about now.
I still can. Giving a zero fucks seems to be more of a personality thing. And he's been posting much more since he's come under suspicion.
In post 277, ThAdmiral wrote:I think he's being unfairly jumped on for more or less reasonable things. His main failure is that he is posting opinions which don't seem to be fully formed, or fully thought through. Furthermore he sometimes doesn't respond to direct questions, for whatever reason, which gives people easy ammunition to throw at him (ie "why didn't you answer my question in xxxx?").
Basically I don't see a convincing case that there are scum motivations behind his actions, just sub-optimal play.
I'm still not getting why you're so dismissive.
* He jumped a vote on jasonT1981 for a piss-poor reason (Post 14 then later claims that he's "slow with votes, especially on D1. It's just one of my things." (Post 203)
* He votes for Benmage based on points I made (Post 203), then switched to a burgeoning wagon on me claiming "I actually did have scum feel on KK earlier, I'm not sure if I mentioned it or not though." (Post 260)
* His position on Acosmist's claim was a bizarre dance. "I'm actually not considering people who went after him suspicious, mostly because I feel this is one of those cases where scum are just willing to let town make the case and then get slammed for it later." (Post 121) to "I am not a fan of anybody on the Aco wagon." and "I'm pretty sure some of the pressure on him is scum looking to push a mislynch." (Post 187 - worth noting that there was no wagon on Acosmist, zabriel later retconned it to "pressure" being the same thing as wagon). Also worth noting that he never named a single poster that was scummy due to putting non-wagon pressure on Acosmist. He just ignored questions that he couldn't answer.
I realize that the line between sub0optimal town play and scum play can be blurry. But zabriel is clearly on the scum side of that line.
In post 295, Zoroaster wrote:
Not sure if trying to get the last laugh as town or scum.Cybertronix wrote:Good deflection though.
What do you think, KublaiKhan?
I don't really know Cybertronix's personality well enough to make that call but I'll say town. zabriel's "why are you bringing that up?" offensive was pretty stupid considering that Cybertronix only did bring it up to answer Zoroaster's question. And the timing is certainly suspect. zabriel did seem to be trying to jump onto something while he was being wagonned pre-daykill. So called it a deflection is not just a random mud-sling.
@ThAdmiral: Add the above to my case on zabriel. It's evidence of a slight freak-out to his initial wagon.
In post 299, Kise wrote:Took me close to 3 hours but yes, I've read everything from the rules, timestamps, join dates and on down to before I hit the submit button. Every post of yours, it comes across like you're playing an angle instead of really trying to dissect things for a purpose. Even here, the slight shade by asking me if I've skimmed the thread. Mind gaming is something I'm all too familiar with, so if someone looks like they're playing master manipulator, it's only polite of me to say hello.
Okay. Sounds like you're letting past reputation cause you to have confirmation bias.
I asked you if you might have skimmed the thread because I explained why I thought jasonT1981 was town in Post 29. This feels like a re-hash of stuff I've already argued. Yes, I acknowledge that there exists a marginal possibility that it was all part of jasonT1981's master plan to only appear to have town-telled, but I'm leaning on the side of Occam's razor. My experience and cunning tells me that sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar. But thanks for the compliments.
Besides, even if it's an evil genius fake town-tell, he's not clear... not by a longshot. If he does something suspect that I spot or someone else puts up a decent case, then that towntell doesn't save him.
In post 299, Kise wrote:What that gotta do with day actions tho?
VTs have a very basic PM with very, very little information. Re-read the first post with the example. If you ask anything that sounds like you have flavor (like something about "color" or insinuating that you have day-actions) then you are basically soft-claiming PR. Thus, ugh.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 347, Tammy wrote:
This is actually a pretty decent town tell.In post 271, Benmage wrote:
God I hope as I read further someone corrected this^.In post 187, zabriel wrote:Also, Solid Snake is a main character, and one that we'd generally assume is in the game. I feel like it would be too ballsy to fakeclaim when somebody could very easily nameclaim and send him to the gallows quick.
@zabrielSometimes mods will not include main characters (I know crazy). And also sometimes they won't include them, BUT they will give them to scum as SAFECLAIMS.
Wait, how? It's a noob-tell if anything. He could easily be a scum without a safeclaim.
In post 352, Benmage wrote:I don't know how you can make such a declarative statement... You call his play bizzarre. I often can't comprehend the rationale of individuals logic. But more often than not its coming from town. Scum tend to think more, react slower, and appear more levelheaded... I don't get bizzare = scummy. Imo its the opposite.
I never said his play was bizarre. Where'd you get that? I don't think he's scummy because of his playstyle if that's what you're implying.
In post 364, Kise wrote:In post 332, Kublai Khan wrote:Okay. Sounds like you're letting past reputation cause you to have confirmation bias.
Well, unless you'velost it, then YEAH I'm thinking you would be on the lookout for someone pulling the wool over your eyes.
I've screwed up many times by being over-paranoid and wrong. There's a fine line somewhere.
In post 371, I Am Innocent wrote:Plus Nero killing a scum obv only added to that.
wut
Oh, he's gone. Well, damn.
In post 396, AngryPidgeon wrote:I've only read the first 5ish pages so far
Let me understand this.. You read the first 5 pages and the ISO of the guy you'd be replacing, then you got your PM. Then you re-read the game? Why?
And after reading I Am Innocent in ISO without context, you decided he was non-scummy enough to replace. Is that all correct?
In post 433, AngryPidgeon wrote:FoS Kublai Khan for his Zabriel case. Nope. For someone willing to give townpoints to jason for slipping, you don't see Zabriel's misunderstanding of safe claims to be townie? Especially considering hes not likely to be "purposely town slipping". Nope. And more nope. And a token 'why' tossed to Thadmiral about why he thinks the Zabriel wagon is shit.
The guy who says something stupid on the fly drops a more credible town-tell then the guy who does something sorta not really similar-ish 180 posts later after lots of discussion about towntelling.
Context is important. Revolutionary, I know.
In post 440, Shahrizai wrote:I wasn't done typing this but I just got a call from the ER and need to go. Mod, I need to request replacement.
Hope everything is okay.
In post 481, AngryPidgeon wrote:Kublai Khan have you mentioned Melmond once this game? Read?
I have not.
Nothing jumped out at me all game about him. But he has kinda a mousey disposition. I just read 7 pages and it's 3 am though. So I'll ISO him tomorrow and give you a better analysis then.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Analysis of Melmond
- Can't really be null on jasonT1981. Either you think he's town or scum.
- Very passive sentencing. (i.e. "seems", "think", "I don't know")
- Votes for zabriel and BloodCovenant. Neither with any noticeable oomph behind them.
- The BloodCovernant case is very weird. He quotes posts 22 & 42 as being the main core. If that's so, why'd he wait so long and why vote zabriel first?
Summary: There are definite signs of opportunism and trying to move wagons along. I'd like the case better if there was a longer history of it.
In post 508, AngryPidgeon wrote::/ I guess. I see the similarities in the two cases. I can see it if someone else doesn't I guess.. But really, would Zabriel flat out pretend to not know what a safeclaim is (or that it exists) if he were scum?
In post 187, zabriel wrote:Also, Solid Snake is a main character, and one that we'd generally assume is in the game. I feel like it would be too ballsy to fakeclaim when somebody could very easily nameclaim and send him to the gallows quick.
KK, roll with me on this.If Zabriel is scum, he has a fake claim, right?Therefore he knows about fake claims and that his previous statement is a load of BS and is making it just to look town. Is Zabriel really capable of that play? Jason, maybe. Zabriel, uhhhhh:Spoiler:
Answer to bolded: Not necessarily. There's lots of characters in both the MGS and HP worlds, nevermind both together.
When I said that jasonT1981 town-telled, it's because I made the following assumptions:
1) In a setup that combines both Harry Potter and Metal Gear, it is very likely that the scum team has a combination of both Harry Potter and Metal Gear characters.
2) If jasonT1981 had a scum PM, it would name his scumpartners and the character names of his scumpartners.
Since I had to confirm my role via PM, I know that jasonT1981 had to read his role PM, so if he's scum he'd have to know that there is a mixture of setups. Note: this is why I said at the beginning of the post that people can't be null on jasonT1981. Or if you want to be null, you have to present a good arguing as to why my assumptions are incorrect. (Further note: third party is possible, but falls under the umbrella of scum atm). Either he's on the level (town) or he's faking (scum).
Now, your assumption for zabriel is the following:
1) Scum will always have fakeclaims.
Shorter, less numbers, but I have a tougher time with it. Maybe it's just because I've played more games here and remember when fakeclaims were the exception rather than the rule.
But a bigger part of me is bothered by the fact that it's a much later tell. jasonT1981 made his in his first few posts. zabriel made his pages later and after arguments had been made along of the lines of "people who make incorrect naive assumptions are given towncred".
Quid pro quo. Why are you arguing that jasonT1981 is capable of playing dumb but zabriel isn't?
Oh. Well, point remains anyways. His actions were bizarre, not his playstyle.
In post 524, Tammy wrote:@ KK - regarding your question in post Post 506. It is a noob-tell, but it's more likely to be a noob-town-tell than a noob scum tell without a safe claim. How often have you seen a large theme like this without provided safe claims? I looked and don't see any pappums games here in large, but faraday was one of the reviewers so I'd expect something given. Besides the way he approached it doesn't seem devious, so I don't see it being an intentional fake claim. Also, I'm not interested in playing out guess the mod on this one. I think that along with all the other things I've mentioned make me think hes more likely to be town.
> argues using mod meta (worse, a reviewer's meta)
> states no interest in playing out-guess the mod
arrgh. Fine. I gave it my best case and couldn't drive up interest so maybe I am wrong. Plus ThAdmiral is doing Day 1 wagon analysis which is pretty much the kiss of death.
Unvote
Vote: Cybertronix
I like the case. He is parrotting quite a bit.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 569, Acosmist wrote:
Why not look up pappums' modded games? Yates and I could tell you about it. I think Pere is a player itg.In post 559, Kublai Khan wrote:Maybe it's just because I've played more games here and remember when fakeclaims were the exception rather than the rule.
Also, fakeclaims are the rule now, due to not breaking games with stupidness.
It'd still be an assumption. It could still be fakery. etc.
Second sentence doesn't make sense, but that doesn't seem relevant to this game.
In post 570, AngryPidgeon wrote:In post 508, AngryPidgeon wrote:In post 506, Kublai Khan wrote:Let me understand this.. You read the first 5 pages and the ISO of the guy you'd be replacing, then you got your PM. Then you re-read the game? Why?
I saw the spot in the Q. I read the ISO. I skimmed the first few pages (probably was less than 5 tbh) and then requested it.
@Kublai: What did my response to this tell you about me?
Well, the reason I asked was because of posts 397 and 404. It seems odd that you were posting what appeared to be catch-up reactions, but you had said that you had already read that stuff pre-replacing. Then you said you skimmed, so it appears to be just moot and so I dropped the subject.
Why do you care about my read on you?
@everyone - Cybertronix needs more votes.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 705, Tammy wrote:Oh and amrun , when looking at cybertronix, please note that avox told cyber to sheep him onto Yates.
Fuck. You're right. (again) That's a super-ballsy move for scum to make.
Fuck it, I'm just going to sheep Tammy. She's reading the game better than I am right now.
unvote
Vote: Melmond
In post 716, Tammy wrote:@kk - why did you do a semi-detailed read of melmond in Post 559 and come to the conclusion that you'd like to see more before making a decision, but took the parroting thing of cybertronix without the same level of detail ns voted him and re calling for more votes on him?
I believe parroting is usually a better scumtell. The scum-tell that Melmond was displaying usually is more convincing if there's a clearer/longer evidence of it.
The AurorusVox comment is the only reason I'm not on a Cybertronix wagon. For example, the post you quoted in Post 719 reads scummy to me (maybe null at best -- I don't read it as town at all).
Acosmist is really obnoxious. I can't wait until he goes away.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 734, zabriel wrote:Well, he's not going anywhere unless we lynch him KK. I'm not really up for a policy lynch right now though.
I meant him going away for the week-end. So we can get a break from his douchy Jersey Shore-esque "Come vote me, bro!" quad postings.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 750, Nero Cain wrote:Am I being parroted?
There is a difference between repeating a single argument (repeating an argument) in the midst of other original thoughts and having said nothing but regurgitated arguments to justify votes the whole game (parrotting).
You should well know the difference. Unless, of course, you just made the post because you want proper credit for seeing that first. In which case: Good boy, Nero Cain. Good boy. Who's a good boy? You are.
In post 751, Nero Cain wrote:In post 749, Yates wrote:Zab talked himself back into the leaning scum pile with that Jester nonsense.
but it was Melmond that suggested jester. The hell is wrong with you Yates?
vote: Melmond
Walk me through the logic of why scum would be more likely to suggest someone is a jester.
In post 765, snifit wrote:Haven't had time to review Cybertronix and Melmond but I see Cyber's wagon is smaller so
This is scummy.
In post 773, mykonian wrote:19. Kublai Khan - I keep mixing you up with someone else. Either him or you called me a bad townie somewhere. Proved to be rather prophetic. You were the guy who shouted too much for what you wanted to say, I think.
Sounds like you could be mixing me up with kuribo. Or Korlash. Or a mix of both.
In post 774, ThAdmiral wrote:In post 733, Kublai Khan wrote:In post 705, Tammy wrote:Oh and amrun , when looking at cybertronix, please note that avox told cyber to sheep him onto Yates.
Fuck. You're right. (again) That's a super-ballsy move for scum to make.
Hate to pull a zabe and all, but, you know, there could be two scum teams.
For me, however, the avox/cyber interaction doesn't rule out the possibility that they were scum together.
I hope you're not expecting me to hold off voting someone based on speculation of multiple scum groups before a single night has passed.
And no, it doesn't absolutely rule out a AurorusVox/Cybetronix scumteam but it makes it so improbable that I'm happy ignoring the possibility atm.
But please explain your "I've got such a town read on Melmond that I'm going to actively prevent his lynch" attitude.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 776, jasonT1981 wrote:I think a bit of pressure is due on Kise.. he said he is reading, then says he did little, then makes a fluff posting.
Seems like scum trying to skate by uninterested in the game right now
That's Day 2 stuff. We're 30 pages+ in and within days of the deadline. Let's get more than halfway to a lynch, yes?
In post 783, Nero Cain wrote:but what does seem rather odd is he's "like lets end the day but I'm going to vote someone who isn't going to get lynched while calling one of the leading wagons scum."
I agree with this. It's very fucking odd behavior.
In post 792, Nero Cain wrote:But I was legit asking if Tammy was sheeping me but I did want to make it clear that I was the one that said the sheeping thing first since both you and Thad seem to have just ignored it, not that I care about "credit". I mean Thad thinks I'm sheeping Tammy with my Cyber town read.
Ah. That's a fair point to make to ThAdmiral then. I apologize for missing your point earlier as I wasn't focused on Cybertronix at the time. I read it, it just didn't stick.
In post 806, ThAdmiral wrote:In post 775, Kublai Khan wrote:I hope you're not expecting me to hold off voting someone based on speculation of multiple scum groups before a single night has passed.
And no, it doesn't absolutely rule out a AurorusVox/Cybetronix scumteam but it makes it so improbable that I'm happy ignoring the possibility atm.
But please explain your "I've got such a town read on Melmond that I'm going to actively prevent his lynch" attitude.
Fair enough about avox/cyber, we'll have to agree to disagree. Here is where I explain my townread on melmond:
In post 545, ThAdmiral wrote:- melmond
Melmond looks good to me. Mainly because he comes to a lot of the same conclusions I have (which indicates he is coming from a town perspective), and has explained himself and his thought processes fairly well from the get go. I also like how he isn't afraid of saying that his opinions changed (mainly in regards to zabriel) - I've often found that scum will find a target and then not budge off them unless they have a good reason to do so.
That's a pretty weak town read, if you don't mind my saying so.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 845, rapidcanyon wrote:My number one target is actually PeregrinV mostly because he is pretending not to read any of my posts. I really don't feel like reading the whole thing now. I'll probably do it this Night and come back with some good analysis next day. Out of the wagons that are hapenning right now... I honestly didn't read a single post Melmod wrote - yeah, I am behind and need to catch up. But I'll ISO Melmond tonight and see if I need to switch my vote from Angry to him.
In post 852, rapidcanyon wrote:My townread on NeroCain is solid because it is based on something that is very difficult to do as scum: Lead the town.
If you haven't read the game, how do you know that Nero Cain is leading the town? And in what way is he leading us?Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 856, rapidcanyon wrote:I have read the game up until my last wall post.
So what has he lead the town to do?Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 860, Nero Cain wrote:In post 859, Kublai Khan wrote:In post 856, rapidcanyon wrote:I have read the game up until my last wall post.
So what has he lead the town to do?
You don't think I'm leading at all?
That's not my point. He's stated that he has not read large parts of the game or any Melmond post at all, yet he can point to a specific player and claim that they are influencing the town. Something is off.
Though to answer your question, not really. Your wall post exchanges with AngryPidgeon were pretty atrocious.Occasionally intellectually honest
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5 pages in 12 hours? You guys are assholes.
Nice to see you too, mastin2. I'm really weirded out that you're calling me a town-read and overall ignoring me.
In post 943, AngryPidgeon wrote:P-p-pedit: Yes, but it makes the zabriel case OBVIOUS BULLSHIT. Anyone talking about his 'slip' needs to die.
Why? People had a theory that maybe he scum-slipped (that he was in a small mafia and suspected another mafia). That doesn't seem to be true. Why should people die because they formed a theory that didn't pan out?
@Nero Cain - same question
@snifit - same question
In post 990, Nero Cain wrote:After returning from rumspringa,
Top notch reference.
In post 998, Nero Cain wrote:Hey Pidgey, remember what we spoke about.
dafuq?
In post 1016, Tammy wrote:Also, and I'm not really sure how to handle this, but I received a message last night. I had this role once before and was told the basic purpose of it was to confirm that role and that someone took that action, instead of killing I guess, that night. Anyway, I dont know if i sould have kept that to myself, but ill be able to verify the sender if and when its necessary. For the last two parts, I feel the same and yes.
Maybe it's the way you worded that, but you made it sound like the person who messaged you had the option of messaging or killing. Is that the case?
Other than that.. I'm not liking mastin2's snifit case. It feels like a attempt to railroad a lynch. But mastin2 replaced Cybertronix, so.. yeah.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 1022, Kise wrote:Only if I'm scum with you.
Cheeky.
Vote: Kise
Why did you lie in post Post 311?Occasionally intellectually honest
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Why did benmage vote snifit over "confscum" Tammy?Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 1054, Benmage wrote:^Whose that question directed to?
Anyways the answer is because I thought he was scummier than he is + a plausible lynch.
But relooking he isn't as scummy as I think.
So I am voting confirmedscum Tammy. But I'm okay with lynching anyone in my probscum list, as one cannot always get the lynch they'd like.
Nobody in particular. Sometimes I like to see who answers an unaddressed question.
What was the catalyst that caused you to change your read on him? Because to me, it looks like you jumped on a convenient runaway wagon-train but bailed when the conductor (mastin2) pulled the brake. We are 24 hours removed from the start of Day 2. Why are you already giving up on getting the lynch you'd like and going for the convenient wagon?
Not on the town list. Her excuses are annoying, but I'm waiting to see how the mailman stuff plays out.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 1084, Kise wrote:
Name a n**** that want some! I’ll out-rap his ass, out-trap his ass. Put his ass in a plastic bag with his trashy ass. Take him out!
What's your angle today, my probscumbuddy?
In post 311, Kise wrote:Kublai Khan is sketchiest. I shouldn't say every post of his is him playing an angle, but what gets my attention is the string pulling. He's relying too strongly on opinions, and sinceI was one of the townies that lost to him years ago, the sting of his miller fakeclaim has never gone away.Remembering that and seeing how quickly he says you (jason) townslipped, something does not feel right. I KNOW KK is schooled in the art of mind gaming, so why wouldn't he suspect you of doing the same?
The bolded part is the lie. We've played in three games together since Mafia 96 (miller claim). You've never, ever mentioned "the sting" before. You've never called me a MASTER MANIPULATOR before. In fact, in Road to WrestleMania Mafia you pushed for me to receive the bulletproof power because it would benefit the town greatly on the off-chance I was town. So how come in this game you open up with a baseless attack on me that hypes up my past scum successes?
What's your angle?
In post 1090, Tammy wrote:In post 1058, Kublai Khan wrote:
Not on the town list. Her excuses are annoying, but I'm waiting to see how the mailman stuff plays out.
So, tell me KK, how often is it that you listen to people's opinions about the people who you are voting who are not on your town list. Also, how often is it you just sheep people not on your town list?
You are also going to need to point out these excuses that are annoying. If you mean the only two I can think of: a.) me getting prodded because I forgot to declare v/la over a weekend but delivering content the day I promised and b.) making sure I came in here and gave what I consider a vital piece of information so that I don't forget but not commenting on things because I'm sick, you can shove it.
You're not on the scum list either. You're null. You made a great observation that got me to change my vote, but Nero Cain deserved original credit, so your super-town cred is tarnished. I want you to post more and re-earn that town cred. Your illness annoys me.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 1095, Kise wrote:LOL... best you got? I fail to see what I lied about. Did I say I've always brought up how stung I was in all our games? You do know the whole reason for me bringing that up is because you called jason town, without consideration that he may be pulling a similar stunt as you, which is what you're acclaimed for? As far as I know, you're the first person to dupe town by fakeclaiming miller. No one really doubted D1 miller claims until after you got away with the fakeclaim and won. You're something like a celebrity. Your act isn't something easily forgotten. So, yes, I brought it up only after you acted as if jason could not be playing any tricks, because I know you're not new when it comes to trickery.
Except it's not similar in any way. If anything Acosmist's claim is the most similar to what I did and no, I'm not giving him any clearance for it.
Keep in mind, you didn't just say "Khan is suspicious", you called me the shadiest person in the game. You still haven't attributed any scum motivations to my actions, you just insisted that I should be a lot more paranoid. Well, there's scum motivation in boosting paranoia and poking holes in other's scumreads. Especially townreads of people of people you don't believe to be scum.
In post 1096, Acosmist wrote:my vote is getting lonely here, can we please lynch scum instead of randomly wagoning a townie
once a game is enough for that poopoo
Is the entirity of your case against Benmage a protracted "he's trying to lynch me!" OMGUS argument? Because Benmage's counter-case of "Hey Acosmist is a useless fuck who is coasting and not scumhunting" is much more compelling.
And I'm kinda iffy on Benmage, so that's saying a lot.
In post 1101, Yates wrote:...whu? Really? That's what you have for me? That's a misrep at BEST - not a lie.
Vote: Kublai Khan
Explain in your next post why you overstated your case on Kise because this is anti-Town bullshit and I'm in no mood for any more bullshit today.
A misrep is a type of lie. Kise came into the game essentially saying "Khan is a MASTER of manipulation". I'm going to view that as an attempt to discredit me. Especially since Tammy and mastin2, two players whom I've notoriously beaten as scum, are saying that I read as town and Kise has a history of boosting me as a credible town player.
It's meta, so all the caveats apply, but Kise reads like he's trying to be manipulative himself. You don't find it strange that Kise has yet to list a single town-read? Kinda feels like scum keeping their options open, doesn't it?Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 1136, Acosmist wrote:Not sure whether Kublai Khan is lying and thus gets lynched as a liar, but whatever, I'd rather lynch him as scum. u scum with these ppl?
That's your entire case against Benmage? A single sentence half a game ago about how he's not that great, therefore scum?
How is you popping in every few days saying "my vote is lonely" not active lurking and prod-dodging?Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 1145, Yates wrote:In fairness, I can't give your "Tammy calls me Town so obviously I'm Town" argument much credence because I have also duped her with ease. Although, maybe I should because that would make me conf-Town as well, right? [<3 Tammy!]
I never duped Tammy. I did the same thing to her as scum that I see Kise doing here. I attacked her credibility so her counter-case looked petty and OMGUS.
And I've been scum in 8/9 games with mastin2. It's been a running joke that he starts forming scum-teams off my interactions without bothering to figure out what I am.
In post 1145, Yates wrote:Meh. I don't have a ton of Town reads either. I think that's fairly common for Town wanting to keep their options open as well. It could be scummy, I suppose, but it is equally indicative of a Townie that simply doesn't trust anyone. Also, I have gotten into the habit of allowing players to defend themselves so I don't defend an incorrect Town read and get burned for it. As scum, I've used that tactic to tie a nearly unlynchable Townie to my destiny so I avoid it like the plague. To that effect, this isn't me defending Kise so much as challenging your logic on a case, which I think is a distinction worth making clear.
Yeah, but. You've got two town-reads in your first two posts. One of them is jasonT1981. Why didn't Kise find you scum? You don't find it strange that I'm held to such an insane standard that nobody else is held to?
In post 1147, Yates wrote:I agree that messenger is likely Town. So why would you want Tammy to out a Townie?
Non-rhetorical question: Why is it bad to out the messenger?Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 1168, AngryPidgeon wrote:P-P-edit: Ok KK, would you be ok with claiming first and popcorning to the messenger?
What?Occasionally intellectually honest
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Because I don't really believe it to be a town role. I've been messenger twice (1 scum/1 survivor). It seems very pointless as a town role since they can't converse and can't give any useful information.
If it is town, then why should it painstakingly "confirm" itself to one person at a time?Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 1172, Yates wrote:In post 1167, Kublai Khan wrote:Non-rhetorical question: Why is it bad to out the messenger?
If you out the messenger you out Town? Am I missing something here?
Explain why it's bad to out town.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 1173, AngryPidgeon wrote:P-edit: Ya, I'm not insane here right? Tammy already said she thinks its from town. And unless Tammy and a buddy are gambiting super hard, I do not believe that they can be scum/scum.
With apologies to Tammy, but Tammy could be wrong.
In post 1176, Yates wrote:In post 1174, Kublai Khan wrote:Explain why it's bad to out town.
Scum night target?
You'd cry over the loss of a town messenger?Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 1178, Yates wrote:In post 1177, Kublai Khan wrote:You'd cry over the loss of a town messenger?
Depends. Tammy hasn't said what the info is yet. If that's how our cops communicate without outing themselves? Yeah. I would QQ in my Cheerios.
Doesn't sound like an amnesiac cop. Sounds like a mailman.
In post 1016, Tammy wrote:Also, and I'm not really sure how to handle this, but I received a message last night. I had this role once before and was told the basic purpose of it was to confirm that role and that someone took that action, instead of killing I guess, that night. Anyway, I dont know if i sould have kept that to myself, but ill be able to verify the sender if and when its necessary. For the last two parts, I feel the same and yes.
In post 1089, Tammy wrote:And no, btw, I'm not claiming who messaged me right now. I'll leave that up to discussion for what's the best course of action. It will be outing one person's role and will be narrowing the pool for everyone else. I made sure it was there for confirmation purposes. And, I'm not outing the message either. If the sender wants to say what they sent to me that's their prerogative. It was no big secret and nothing great and game changing so there's no need whatsoever; it was just one person's thoughts about the game I'm not going to violate that. Also, I'm fairly certain the sender of the message is on your town list and is someone I very strongly believe to be town as well; that's pretty much all I'm going to say about that.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 1182, mastin2 wrote:
Pretty sure that we haven't had nine previous games together. Maybe nine total, including this one, but I seem to recall in SG-1 that I did the numbers and it was 6/6, maybe 7/7. Add in the next game, and that's either 6/7 or 7/8. Not 8/9.Khan wrote:And I've been scum in 8/9 games with mastin2.
Need to double-check to make sure, but this seems like a scumslip.
Goddamn, mastin2. The numbers are pulled out of my ass.
@Benmage - Go back to 1016 and read at least 12 posts from that. Both me & Yates addressed that.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 1188, Benmage wrote:In post 1186, AngryPidgeon wrote:
Ya, Tammy took that back and said it was just poor phrasing. I do not understand how Tammy is undesirable #1, yet you apparently don't care to read her posts.
She took that back ... awesome. Look its not that I'm not reading. I JUST GOT POWER BACK, I DONT HAVE INTERNET... wtf. I'm doing the best I can.
Anyways if she took it back, all the more reason to put fourth all the information.
How do you not see it as scum backtracking?
It's not backtracking per say. She just clarified that it indicates that the person who sent the message could not have also sent a night-kill.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 1192, Yates wrote:In post 1179, Kublai Khan wrote:Sounds like a mailman.
Ok. At worst this is like a weak neighbor, right? Would you [KK or Benmage] want a neighbor to out a neighbor?
No, it sounds nothing like a neighbor. It sounds like a mailman. It's a one-way message, though the moderator.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Kublai Khan Khan Man
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Okay so, I'm not entertaining any idea that Tammy isn't a Day SK. Except maybe if it's something interesting like mafia have a daykill instead of nightkill, but probably not.
I really don't know why you guys why push Tammy to shoot Acosmist. Two birds, one stone.
Vote: Kise
I think it might be better to leave Tammy alive to draw the NK. If she doesn't die, then she has to shoot Acosmist. If she doesn't die and refuses to shoot Acosmist, then she gets lynched.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Yates, you're being an idiot. Put yourself in her claimed shoes. You have a town dayvig pm. You are not a miller. You have yet to take a shot. Someone claims a guilty on you. Do you:
A) shoot the player with the guilty result because it must be fake.
B) waffle, give no helpful information then shoot near randomly for a piss-poor reason (he didn't post)?
Hint: a is town. B isn't.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 1349, Tammy wrote:I'm not shooting Zabriel/Nero/Acosmist. I have town reads on both Zabriel and Nero. And well, I'm not suicidal. Yeah, I know I'm not living long, but still. That would be a waste.
Vote: Tammy
I'm kinda with Benmage now. Tammy probably won't play ball.
In post 242, Kise wrote:@aco - does it say only night actions used against you?
p.edit: fck you daykiller for confirming day actions. But please, answer Aco.
I want Kise to explain this in more detail.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 1751, AngryPidgeon wrote:This game Day is not going anywhere. Tammy has a cop guilty on her. Her death resolves multiball spec.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 1768, Acosmist wrote:In post 1759, Acosmist wrote:Anyone not voting Tammy right now is a good lynch candidate tomorrow.
This applies a fortiori now.
There's that constant stream of self-preservation that'll make the wagon grow. Keep it up.Occasionally intellectually honest
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Yeah, yeah. We know your claim. Quit fucking bloating the game with multi-posts and let grown-ups talk.
1) Yes, Tammy will say whatever to survive. However she will also do whatever to survive. She's outed, but as SK all she has to do is survive. She will gladly kill and has no target preference. There is no logical reason why she won't play ball, bide her time, and hope an opportunity opens up somehow.
2) DayKill choice will be done the same way as lynches. Majority.
3) Scum can influence the kill, but no more then they can influence a normal lynch. Town gets to double lynch.
4) Only flaw is that she won't target Acosmist, but he's been scummy as fuck, so today is as good as any to remove him from the equation.
5) Of the known roles, Scum have to choose between killing the Cop (who will likely be protected), a known SK, other lesser town roles (Hi, Nero Cain), or an unknown.
I think it's more likely that scum are pushing for the Tammy-lynch to save themselves the trouble of NKing her. I also think you're unwittingly helping them. Your fear of being shot tomorrow is retarded. Stop hyperventilating and AtE-ing and go away for 24 hours. Come back with a logical state of mind.Occasionally intellectually honest
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In post 1805, snifit wrote:This is ridiculous. I keep checking the game to see if we've lynched Tammy yet. The fuck are you people thinking?
1) Yes, Tammy will say whatever to survive. However she will also do whatever to survive. She's outed, but as SK all she has to do is survive. She will gladly kill and has no target preference. There is no logical reason why she won't play ball, bide her time, and hope an opportunity opens up somehow.
Why risk fucking up our position like that?
What position?
Scum need to eliminate the SK. We helped them by uncovering her. We don't need to lynch her for them too.Occasionally intellectually honest
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