Secret Alt Mafia 2 – Game over!

[Concorde]

I am here. More tonight. Lean scum on Anime RQS guy.

[Concorde]

6 - Serves as a method of getting information about player's strengths and weaknesses. Major scumpoints but I know certain players used to favor it. 9 is the logical followup but not alignment indicative. A wagon on ST would likely reveal their alignment. Minor townread on soothsayer as he has similar thoughts.

22 reads as if GreatValue knows you are dead to me is town. It could be buddies though. The implicit suggestion is that you are dead to me is a horrible vote. The question is, for who?

32 I missed Dmitri on the initial pass. Good posting here.

33 This post is awkward in an alignment neutral way. Highly likely this user is awkward generally.

Continuing through page 2, SN is confirmed awkward or impersonating someone who is. Dmitri is giving off vibes that he's scum wanting to dispell suspicion.

VOTE: Dmitri

[Concorde]

Reads time

Town
Concorde
You are Dead to Me
Natural Aristocracy
Shiba




soothsayer



Scum
GreatValue
Dmitri
megafan
Quailford

[Concorde]

Your reads are more in line with mine and unlike most other people's. Do you have any thoughts on why that could be?

I don't know exactly why. Yet the agreement I got when I read your posts made me place you as solid town. A few people were wagoned early and now most everyone agreeing with you has received a vote or two.

I think scum tried to wagon you, got called out for it, and are searching for easy pickings.

I also think I know who you are.

[Concorde]

VOTE: You are dead to me

That's what I meant.

Discredit this as OMGUS if you want, but it's a horrible vote.

Start here. He calls his vote on you a horrible vote if this sentence is read according to the rules of grammar. It suggests he knows you're town or his buddy.

36 Great Value says he's established himself as an active town role. That's not true at all, but with repetition people can buy a lot. He also says he feels Dmitri is buddying him, but he completely ignores Shiba's vote.

[Concorde]

Spoiler: Post 190 Response

190 You have been arguing that Dispy is not doing analysis but just attacking.

Thoughts on Dimitri?

Scum. And his posts are artificial. Which means he's scum.

calling 'artificial' a scum tell in a game full of secret alts, lol ok whatever you say

trying to rely on old rules = scum doesn't know how to approach this game

Disagreement doesn't indicate a lack of analysis Spider. It's not a towntell though either. These posts can be useful post flip, but I don't see this as avoiding scumhunting. Some people are just naturally hostile rather than inquisitive. Skilled scum can have reasons for actions that seem plausible on the surface.

198 Any wagon can go to lynch at any time. If you felt GV was not going to be lynched ever, why wouldn't you move to a train that could be?

210 Personality tells have no bearing on alignment.

216 Soothsayer's wall looks like conclusion based reasoning, particularly the interactions with NA. Post 32 does state exactly what Soothsayer says it does not to me, namely the whole scum intention to appear town by getting the game going. I do think Dispy needs to clear up why his vote is where it is. However, the lack of grammar makes 155 by Dipsy harder to understand. Dipsy is doing multiple back to back catchup posts.

Not a fan of the slimy rhetoric getting tossed around here again.

Looking at megafan's ISO, I am not seeing how anyone could claim that mega evolved on anything. This townreads may be faked; namely a townreads solely because of where mega's vote is placed.

More in a bit.

[Concorde]

216 Forgot the Shady null read. Just because someone votes your scumsuspect doesn't warrant praise in a readwall. Shady has provided no analysis whatsoever, and voting town or buddies that are unlikely to be mislynched is a decent tactic for lurker scum.

220 I don't find NA's 194 to be busy work at all, particularly with Dead's comment in 198. While NA could not have seen 198 at the time of posting 194 (unless they are scum with daychat), people cast such throw away votes a lot and calling people out for that is hardly busiwork.

229 You have a townreads on the biggest wagon, yet you tell people it's ok to lynch him? Pick a side.

232 I don't like the alt hunting here. People can identify as whatever they want in a secret alt game. People also impersonate others. The fact SN supposes that someone is telling the truth regarding their gender claim makes no sense regardles of what alignment the claimer is.

233 I like this post. It's a little over aggressive but the pronouns would make it hard to follow in an ISO. I was stating that most everyone who agreed with Dead's reads was wagoned after Dead's wagon fell apart, so I am more inclined to believe Dead's reads (including town on NA) were more accurate at the time than now.

[Concorde]

236 244 I am not liking Dipsy's vote here onto NA, given the criticism brought before that he didn't just vote NA at 155. Instead he just votes NA. The response to this criticism comes in 244 rather than 236. If Dipsy's catching up in order, he should have replied to the criticism of why Gwen over NA before moving his vote.

245 Soothsayer not noticing the inconsistencies in Dipsy's catchup is also troubling, considering he townreads Dipsy for catch up posting. How hard is it to realize that as of post 240 Dipsy has read to 237 or that 244 is a dodge?

[Concorde]

264 I am well aware of the message Great Value intended to convey. Notice his I said

if the post was read according to the rules of grammar

. Scum distancing themselves from their own votes subconsciously is a thing that happens. That's the point I was making and that would have been clear if you asked for clarification.

267 Seriously? A catchup on pages 4-9 when you look like you're actively reading and following the game SN? WTF.

This Quailford read is a lot of bollocks and looks designed to prime the conclusion Quailford is scummier than Dipsy. Both Quailford and Dipsy have had weak or nonsensical posting. Even here, he undermines his strong townread in Spider Gwen by stating both are scummy but Quilford is scummier.

Here, SN's townread on Dipsy makes no sense given he's not realm challenging Gwen's assertions about Dipsy.

I don't like how he says my catch isn't clear considering many people understood it. He doesn't highlight what is unclear.

The read on Spider Gwen is simplistic and he makes no effort to reconcile the fact he disagrees with his townread.

SN borrowing a style from another player is creepy along with the lack of analysis of 216.

I don't like the suggestion to waste a rolecop on a miller claim. Who knows if there even is a rolecop?

Again, NA is town but SN puts zero effort into highlighting why NA is town.

274 The white knighting of the NA wagon and NA is terrible. If all his townreads are pushing the NA wagon, then why not reconsider his position on NA? If it's because SN believes he has found who NA is, then why doesn't he reconsider that? The whole the wagon is town driven but wrong really wierds me out.

It's also inconsistent with the fact he says town and scum would be driven to NA's wagon. If both town and scum are drawn to voting NA because he's loud, then why is SN confident that the NA wagon is town driven?

VOTE: SN[/vote

[Concorde]

275 I like Dispy's post here. It is what I was thinking.

278 I am not sure I follow this NA. What thing did Dipsy do again?

282 You're town reading all the major wagons yet not taking a major swing at a scumread or displaying visible frustration at people? Die. Die. Die.

285 Close. Consistency of reads isn't what makes people town. Consistency of logic is. Having someone state reads to stop them from changing positions won't catch scum as both have malleable reads but for different reasons if good. Occasionally, scum are too rigid though and logical inconsistencies come out that way.

Just realized I made a mistake. Anywhere I say SN, I mean ST.

295 I agree. I am not a fan of alt fishing or telling people what they may or may not have alt slipped. I do think telling people you suspect who they are is helpful to track reads later.

Gumby goes into my strong town book for correcting his own mistake I didn't catch and his clear positions.

[Concorde]

236 244 I am not liking Dipsy's vote here onto NA, given the criticism brought before that he didn't just vote NA at 155. Instead he just votes NA. The response to this criticism comes in 244 rather than 236. If Dipsy's catching up in order, he should have replied to the criticism of why Gwen over NA before moving his vote.

i voted aristocracy after reading 187

the question about why i voted gwen over aristocracy was in 216

so what are you trying to say

if your assumption is that i wouldn't vote before finished catching up then it is faulty

No I am stating that it's possible you read, felt the wagon on NA being popular and voted. Then you forgot you had to explain why you didn't vote NA at the beginning.

[Concorde]

I do believe it's more likely, but I am keeping an open mind.

Spider Gwen is an early vote without a reason. I don't know why you voted Gwen over NA. That's the whole problem. Your response didn't clear that up. So why don't you tell me why you voted Gwen over NA?

What do you think of ST?

[Concorde]

I still don't see a reason for a Gwen vote. People disagree on theory all the time. I don't see how a Gwen vote helps resolve the miller situation.

You think ST hasn't done anything interesting? ST has the most posts in the game. You should be able to find something interesting.

[Concorde]

Shady, stop being a petulant brat. Faking guilties on town isn't cool. Your rhetoric isn't cool. The OMGUS is a personality tell, not any sort of alignment tell. Daycops and Dayvigs are faked so often, they've lost all effect. You're so wrapped up in your own opinion, that you think people should kiss your feet. I think you're town, but it's weaker because of your attitude and how dismissive you were regarding me.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some substantive replies to get to.

[Concorde]

358 I don't think anyone town motivated calls 191 busiwork. If you squint, maybe buddying. 194 isn't busiwork either as its ok to call out bad votes. I don't see your objection here other than being an asshole.

On 229, ST literally says for people to not townread his townread. He is actively encouraging scumreads and thus lynching his townread.

Yes, alt hunting is scummy. You know precisely a person's weak points and strong points are to manipulate them. Focusing on that rather than scumhunting is scummy.

Calling my points dumb, such as the one on Great Value doesn't invalidate them.

Quilford and Daisy both have content, even if I am scumreading Quilford for his. The comparison is littered through ST's so-called catch up. ST's comparison read there is utter shit.

Using a rolecop on obvious town, if one exists, is pointless. If anyone actually townie seriously doubts Gumby's alignment, sure cop him. I'd rather scum actually be required to stick with and create bullshit early than verifying someone townie is who they claim to be. That's why copping Gumby's scummy.

Oh now we get onto this weasel buzzword crap you're spewing. Most people reconsider their read on a wagon if pushed all by townreads or they reconsider the townreads on the people pushing the wagon. Highlighting this is not "weasely" in any sense of the word. You're not even disagreeing with my assessment either which is my main point of doubt with you.

You're supposing that ST is playing a really short game here. ST, by town reading most of the active voices, us engaging in buddying. Second, if NA is a mislynch (which should be obvious given the lack of obvtown pushing the wagon triggering your guilty claim), ST has no reason to discourage it.

None of my attacks are cheap and weasely. So yes, ST will answer them. No you will not dare have your arrogance or remote possibility of being scum with ST stop me from getting said answers.

You are no better than anyone else. Stop acting like you are Shady.

[Concorde]

I think the Qualiford wagon isn't great. I don't like the combination of names that are on it. I'm still not sure what to think of Qualiford, other than that they aren't a hard-ass.
Quailford wagon makes sense to me, but I don't think that Quailford's play is egregious enough to merit a lynch.

What? You don't think the wagon is great, but it makes sense to you? I mean, I agree with you on not liking the composition of the wagon, but there's an awful lot of double talk here. And again, it feels like you are trying not to take a position.

I'm actually interested in playing up the Shady/Concorde beef because I'm not a huge fan of Shady and I liked Concorde's reads and explanations. I'm interested in them butting heads.

The fu-

Unvote
Vote Aristocrat

You are wrong about the double talk explanation here. He's taking a clear position. Quilford wagon sucks. The people pushing it are making mountains out of molehills. That's not double talk at all.

The butting heads comment, do you seriously tink scum would want to rile up town and be so blantant? Don't think so. Dude's town.

Oh and I will call you SG if that's cool by you.

[Concorde]

414 - ST, your post here is way off with your NA read still. There have been quite a few large themes where players are put on the defensive lately by well-meaning scum and town that town players never shook off because they were always placed on the defensive.

Your comment here about letting wagons and associations form naturally and that you'd stop NA if the wagon got too high is in direct contradiction to you telling NA to act unnaturally an let your wagon go through.

If you really wanted natural reactions, you should want NA's natural reaction to your vote. Instead, you tell him to be useful by being on defense. NA can determine a read by seeing who jumps on or off after he calls the wagon crap and why.

Being on the defensive constantly is something many people read as scummy.

[Concorde]

415 Crying "not in context" when I catch precisely what you are doing. That doesn't make me "dumb" but just reinforces my scumread on you.

Althunting instead of scumhunting is scummy. One is not a subset of the other. Althunting should only be done after you determine someone's alignment not before.

I am not as confident in my Quailford read as my scumread on you and some of the people voting him are rather sketchy. That makes me not want to get on that wagon.

Gumby's not a universal townreads, but that's because scum, such as yourself doubtcasted him. Obvious town is obvious. Eventually I will PoE this.

A day one lynch most likely consists of all town. That doesn't mean town pushed the wagon, and we both know that's moving the goal posts since you were arguing town were pushing NA who is also town.

Drawing associative reads is perfectly fine at any point as long as the reads are revised with evidence.

Yeah, town reading everyone who is active is pretty obvious buddying. If no one's around who is scumreading you, you won't be lynched. Plus lurkers are easy pushes. If someone townreads all the major voices on subbing in, then there better be a lot of scum lynches by said town leaders. Otherwise, yes it's probably buddying.

I don't believe Shady's guilty claim. Fake guilty claims come from places where town and scum cannot get obvious town mislynched. That was my point.

Shady throws around the word weasely and you're obviously going to seize on that due to your role PM. As for soothsayer, he disagrees with me but that doesn't mean he thinks my attacking you is weasely. That's an association attempt as you want to have that word associated with me.

You can take your Pop Warner psychology classes and realize two can play that game. I am better though. NA is only getting lynched over my dead body right now.

Fight me.

[Concorde]

still pretty happy to kill aristocracy or quailford

also it's p suspicious that phantom hasn't even showed up. given the nature of the game think it's either a v/la we should have been told about or someone who really didn't want a scum pm in this game but got one

First part, no on NA. Meh on Quailford because scum tried to get me to vote him.

I can roll with the second.

I know your alt too.

[Concorde]

Gwen, I think there's some fundamental misunderstanding going on in your posts. 420 is townie but also as high as its name regarding Dipsy. I could give you some line about me knowing everything about Dipsy forty two times over, but that's not going to actually going to help you see that. So onto substance now.

Dipsy is right that scum can push a wagon without voting it. The not subtle attack on Gumby by ST is exactly that. If ST was town reading Gumby, he too would view the rolecop on him as a waste. Scum are going to suggest imply and try to divide town but hope town bites first and sheep it.

Not everyone follows the miller claim post one rule. That assumption is built into your post. Have you ever considered that his miller claim was the ace in the hole to obvtown himself?

Explain to me the contradictions in NA's post as if I am as dumb as Shady wants me to be. I don't see them at all and I'm confident you won't either after breaking it down into its component parts.

Now, the riling up comment. Having us two fight isn't worthless, mostly because ST is scum and the best retaliation they can muster is I am dumb for catching ST falling all over himself. ST will have to comment on what goes on, knowing I will catch each and every actual contradiction. One I will get to in a moment.

Let's talk this out. I am all very confident ears SG.

[Concorde]

can we lync shibe boy now

Wagons ahoy

[Concorde]

Being on the defensive constantly is something many people read as scummy.

Correct.

I am fully prepared to handle such a scenario.

This post is directly in contradiction to ST stating that NA should focus on "absolving" the wagon on himself rather than attacking the logic behind shitty wagons. By focusing on defending himself, NA will look scummy and ST knows it. So why would ST advise NA to focus on peeling off his own wagon? So NA looks scummy and is lynched while ST can laugh on the sidelines saying "told you he was town".

[Concorde]

NA hitme with your best reads.

[Concorde]

409 isn't dreadful. It's very transparent and straightforward. I'll defend NA if I have to with you, he's my type of player.

[Concorde]

Considering your reaction test was designed to get town lynched and distract from scum ST, you bet I would be frustrated. Now that you're caught up Phantom, I will rephrase my complaints on ST in a more wasteful inefficient manner so you can understand them better. If you still don't understand, I will repeat until you do.

[Concorde]

Spoiler: Six Through Nineteen - The RQS posts

Let's begin some discussion. I would greatly appreciate it if every player could answer the following questions in their next post.

1) How many years of mafia experience do you have on your main account? (Less than 1 year, 1-2 years, 2-3 years, 3+ years)
2) What are your thoughts about the balance of this game, given the reviewers (Faraday and chamber) and the mod (Quilford). Do you have mod meta?
3) Do you watch anime? What's your favorite?

4) What's your opinion on short 10 day deadlines? Good for town? Good for scum? Did you know that you were getting into this?

VOTE: Greatvalue

Way to stifle discussion in an entirely anonymous game. You are now my first scum read.

The only question that remotely narrowed down alt possibilities is the first question, and even that is worded vague enough to make alt guessing a challenge.

Giving fake answers is okay for the sake of discussion, but do note that there are consequences.

You should suggest better ones then, instead of proceeding to brainless and strictly inferior RVS.

At this point, RQS to alt hunt is scummy. It doesn't reveal much about alignment but rather the personalities of the players here. In this situation, asking how people can be manipulated isn't helpful to town; only scum.

I am aware of one player who really likes them however and swears up and down by them. Still, even for that player, these questions are scummy.

Vitriol? I find Dimitri's comments within acceptable levels, thank you for your concern.

What do you think about YouAreDeadtoMe's naked vote?

The language on this post is stilted and awkward, just like I expect Miss RQS to be. Miss RQS frequently has difficulties with rage and frustration as town and is very aggressive. Later when ST looked less like MissRQS, I began to suspect this was Miss RQS scum or scum that was not Miss RQS entirely.

[Concorde]

well he's not town and i wasn't going to hold the claim all day, idiot

You weren't going to hold your reaction test bullshit all day? So what, find someone easily mislynchable and fake a guilty?

Also, stop with the ad hominem. Not cool.

[Concorde]

Phantom, stop yelling please. It's hard for me to tell what's important in your post versus not. We have a lot of the same reads. We can work together. I don't think Dmitri is town but I much prefer a ST lynch. It sounds like, but I am not certain you're leaning the same way but preferring Dmitri.

How about this, I stay out of your way, you try to lynch Dmitri scum. I try to lynch ST. If Dmitri needs a hammer, I will. You hammer ST if the situation is reversed. We an count each others votes and pressure two likely scum at the same time.

Do you want me to even finish my reasoning for ST scum or not?

[Concorde]

you should maybe learn the definition of ad hominem

also "find someone easily mislynchable and fake a guilty" implies i'm scum yet you were claiming i was town a few pages ago

gonna not read a single thing phantom has posted

I said I was leaning town but had problems with your behavior. Since then, all you have done is be an insulting bully and plugged your ears to any type of scumhunting, so I will rattle your cage.

[Concorde]

Shady, not kidding really want your explanation behind your NA scum read (Other than his vote not having moved and his reaction towards your "guilty") and not buying the "guilty" at all (I'd put the bank on Quilford not involving a day or pregame type cop in his setup not to mention your play doesn't match having one anyway) so the gambit really needs to end. Also want some town reads from you.

i don't do reads

but i'll explain NA being scum in a little while

Well.... I am now reconsidering my thoughts on Dipsy Doodle. This is a solid town reaction to the threat of a vote.

lol are you kidding me that's an easy reaction to give as either alignment

I know your alt too.

you literally just tried to claim "alt hunting" was a scumtell

Stating you know the obvious isn't hunting.

[Concorde]

Working on that now. Going to light up my joint and finish. My early position on 446. I'll put it in one large post when done.

[Concorde]

Spoiler: bad reads quotes

I agree with Dimitri that public declaration of OMGUS is a towntell.

NA, don't expect me to give you a straight-off townread based on 227. I know that you are capable of posts of such lengths as scum.

To All: I have a townread on NA because I think I know his main, but don't automatically townread 227 based off its length, as he is capable of doing so as scum.

This catchup post will include content from pages 4 to 9. Reads and their corresponding elaboration will be given on Spider Gwen, Concorde, Cell phone, Soothsayer, Dipsy, Quailford, and Gumby.

Strong

scumread

on Quailford.

Looking past his troll persona, there is a markedly different vibe from his off-the-cuff posting as compared to Dipsy. Many of his posts contain either blanket statements or illogical reasoning for reads, in essence they do not sound genuine. The nonsensical arguments that he pushes as well as irrelevant reasonings for townreads makes his posts appear easy to fake. When asked to elaborate on the town tells that he had found from Gumby, he fails to substantiate. It appears that he is more guilty of failing to determine intent than Spider Gwen had accused Dipsy of.

Strong

townread

on Dipsy.

In sharp contrast, Dipsy's off-the-cuff posting appears distinctly town, because the posts he quotes and his observations make sense. I can see his reasoning for disliking megafan's play as I had the exact same concern upon my skim. His further posts on page 10 onwards only solidify this townread, because I found his responses to Spider Gwen satisfying, as well as his read on Natural Aristocracy insightful and valid, although in my opinion misguided.

Weak

scumread

on Concorde.

I cannot follow soothsayer's reasoning for his Concorde townread. From 172, it appears that he has a scumread on me, and his later comment about 33 doesn't actually state a townread. I'm not sure how he progressed to me being a townread in 173 then. I'm don't think any of his posts have rung as town, so for that he will remain in the nullscum area.

Strong

townread

on Spider Gwen.

I feel that Spider Gwen is going to be a strong town presence in the game. Her posts ask meaningful questions, she analyzes motivations, and her reading skills are sharp. Going to put her in the obviously-town category for now, and will only revisit later.

Weak

scumread

on Cellphone.

His only post, 145, is quite useless. I hope he posts more so that we can determine his alignment better.

Strong

townread

on soothsayer.

His catchup reads post was very meaningful, and is admittedly the source of where I borrowed some formatting. Most of his reads are substantiated with evidence which is good, while the effort to analyze player intentions is evident. It makes his thought process clear and easier to follow, and if there is a read that I take issue with (such as his Concorde read), it is easy to clarify with him specifically on the crux of the matter, which I am currently doing. His subsequent posts look good as well.

?Unsure? about Gumby.

His posts gave me scumvibes, particularly the cognitive dissonance regarding voting me when attacking Dead for calling me newbtown, as pointed out by another player, and also the meaningless semantic argument about Dead's definition of 'newb', despite Dead already defining it here. His miller claim though, is the one that leaves me confused. On one hand, it is standard practice to (sometimes erroneously) put away Miller claims as Town. On another hand, it's a easy role to fakeclaim as scum, and the definitions of a Miller can be made up or obtained from a Mod's fakeclaim. I think that the best way to handle situations like this is for a rolecop on him, to determine if he is telling the truth. If it was for his claim, I'd have him as a moderate scumread.

In sum, these are my reads as of Page 11, including recent reads.

--
Dimitri Davidoff ->

Town

Natural Aristocracy ->

Town

Concorde ->

Scum

Shiba Tatsuya ->

Me

You are dead to me ->

Town

Spider Gwen ->

Town

Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy ->

Town

Shady
The Phantom of the Opera
Greatvalue ->

Town

Quailford LOL ->

Scum

Gumby ->

Null

the_soothsayer ->

Town

Megafan1998
CellPhone ->

Scum

--

I think we can agree that Gumby is off the table for today, but I wonder why you are unsure of him. Do you just think that his claim counteracts his play enough? If he had not claimed Miller, you would have a moderate scumread there, right?

His claim counteracts his play. I would have a moderate scumread there if it weren't for his play, correct.

There were 10 minutes between those two posts and the first made it clear he was only commenting on the first 2 pages. I could see the following readslist coming from a quick skim of what was left. Regardless, I think Concorde's input isn't coming from scum, as it strikes me as showing himself rather than directing others. I don't see the scum intent, I guess?

Hence, nullscum. I don't see town intent, and certainly not as strong a level as soothsayer is putting him. I feel that Dipsy was correct in calling out his Concorde townread as weird.

Do you usually think inconsistency is a scum-tell?

Generally, yes. Although, all interactions depend on context; simply "forgetting" your own reads may not necessarily be scum-inconsistency, but blatantly contradicting them in a manner that is scum-motivated, is of course a scumtell.

Can you elaborate a little more on Megafan and Shady?

Considering how little they've posted, I'll pass for now. I'll revisit next time, and hopefully they've posted more.

What do you think of those two both having little content/not even showing up in your reads there yet still voting me?

I think your loud and brazen play makes you a magnet for votes, for both town and scum. I certainly believe that your wagon is town-driven. If anything, I'd point out Shady as the most likely scum on your wagon, but that's it.

Can you comment a bit more on how you feel about player's votes and the wagons that have showed up so far today?

Which player's votes? Sorry, but I think you missed a word.

I'm curious what you think of your scumreads' votes and the central wagons of the day (Great Value, Dimitri, Me, etc)


dipsy you're doing that thing again wrt rolecop

I disagree with all the central wagons of the day, because all of them are my townreads. I think I've addressed offhand in 228.

It's still early in the game, and my scumreads are relative. I'm not going to draw pre-flip associations just yet, sorry.

I am using the first few quotes that I take issue with from ST and highlighting the main issue I have here with her.

The first one is OMGUS as a town tell is wrong.

229 has a sudden shift solely because she has detected a player's main. She never really explained her scum read on NA and this is a real easy way to be flexible.

Now we are at ST's catchup. Why does she need a catch up when she's been replying in real time? The conclusions are non-sensical. The scum read of Quail is forced as there is virtually no distinction between the two. She disagrees with all major wagons later but doesn't say anything about Quail being town.

People have mentioned Cellphone read.

The NA read is not explained there.

Later ST attempts to argue that NA is town. The wagon is all town driven to ST. Yet, she also argues that scum want the wagon, so why wouldn't scum push it? If all your townreads disagree with you, I would expect frustration questions to solve it to resolve the conflict. ST appears to be fine with that and put no effort to figure out why this happened. ST even defends this. Most town would view this as a problem. Not ST.

[Concorde]

I like the last post the most. Let's read between the lines shall we? Why does Dmitri want Quail's read to be associated with being bad and wrong? I have an idea but you try first. Then I will want to see if we can get a block of obvtown going.

[Concorde]

SG, a wagon can "make sense" without endorsing the wagon. If a bunch of people wagon a player based off a false assumption, then the wagon makes sense but NA isn't endorsing the wagon at all. He can not like the players pushing or the reasons behind it and still say it makes sense because if a player believed that assumption then the wagon works. I don't see a contradiction there. NA, rather than just giving the theory he has, also discusses the theories he rejects. While it is clear to me, I can see it being confusing to others.

Now can you explain the miller contradiction to me?

Also I don't see Dipsy as fake at all.

@ Shady, I will deal with you later. I am enjoying my high.

[Concorde]

Dead to me, I think this is an oversight. For the most part, I have disagreed with SG's cases. I still think they come from a town place though. She is pushing factually true cases based off her misinterpreting posts, thus leading her to the wrong reads.

I do think Phantom has a business I could see thriving. I just prefer my own business of lynching ST. Do you stand by your conclusions?

Your NA business is glitzy but lacks strong financials or a solid business plan. Do not invest.

[Concorde]

Mr. Established Active McTownRole isn't living up to his name. Clearly he is drowning with real life work which absolutely takes precedence over an online forum game. Gee, what a believable excuse.

?????

36

[Concorde]

I need an avatar.

Nothing's happened to change my reads.

I am now taking avatar bribes. You'll get free smiles for making me one.

[Concorde]

Vote:Dmitri

Go ST. Lurk off that wagon like a champ.

Let's play a game. Color the wagons.

• Votecount 1.12
  
  
  
  Dimitri Davidoff (6)— Greatvalue,
  The Phantom of the Opera, Natural Aristocracy, Quailford LOL, Meganfan1998
  
  
  Quailford LOL (4)
  —
  Dimitri Davidoff, Shiba Tatsuya,
  Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy, Gumby
  
  
  Natural Aristocracy (3)—
  Shady,
  You are dead to me,
  Spider Gw
  en
  
  
  CellPhone (1)— the_soothsayer
  
  

  Not Voting

  (1)— CellPhone
  
  
  It takes 8 to lynch or no lynch.
  
  
  Deadline
  
  
  Deadline hits in (expired on 2015-10-24 08:08:29).
  
  
  Mod notes
  
  
  Prodding CellPhone and Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy. Let's pick it up a bit please.

How far off am I? Do your own.

[Concorde]

Forgot myself on the Dmitri wagon. I'm number 6.

[Concorde]

Vote:Dmitri

Go ST. Lurk off that wagon like a champ.

Let's play a game. Color the wagons.

• Votecount 1.12
  
  
  
  Dimitri Davidoff (6)— Greatvalue,
  The Phantom of the Opera, Natural Aristocracy, Quailford LOL, Meganfan1998
  
  
  Quailford LOL (4)
  —
  Dimitri Davidoff, Shiba Tatsuya,
  Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy, Gumby
  
  
  Natural Aristocracy (3)—
  Shady,
  You are dead to me,
  Spider Gw
  en
  
  
  CellPhone (1)— the_soothsayer
  
  

  Not Voting

  (1)— CellPhone
  
  
  It takes 8 to lynch or no lynch.
  
  
  Deadline
  
  
  Deadline hits in (expired on 2015-10-24 08:08:29).
  
  
  Mod notes
  
  
  Prodding CellPhone and Fear Thy Name Is Dipsy. Let's pick it up a bit please.

How far off am I? Do your own.

who does this without flips

Every readwall does. This just combines the readwall with a visual representation of the game. Totally epic.

[Concorde]

Time is a commodity. I'm going to make quick replies to pertinent issues.

415 Crying "not in context" when I catch precisely what you are doing. That doesn't make me "dumb" but just reinforces my scumread on you.

[snip]

You did not catch anything. It's like digging a hole in your backyard and shouting that you've found gold, when it's only a yellow Lego brick the previous owner left behind. I'm not sure if you're deliberately being obtuse or are naturally so. The former is scummy, while the latter makes you a VI.

Being on the defensive constantly is something many people read as scummy.

Correct.

I am fully prepared to handle such a scenario.

This post is directly in contradiction to ST stating that NA should focus on "absolving" the wagon on himself rather than attacking the logic behind shitty wagons. By focusing on defending himself, NA will look scummy and ST knows it. So why would ST advise NA to focus on peeling off his own wagon? So NA looks scummy and is lynched while ST can laugh on the sidelines saying "told you he was town".

You're bad at defending yourself, which is why you look scummy.

--

I'm townreading Phantom of the Opera, but I'm being wary, because his posts are possible to fake from an expert.

Shady's a top-tier townread. No questions.

--

Will make a larger post on why Shiba is town (Very very very confident he is) and why people needing to stop vote there in the next few hours. Got a few people I want to ISO as well and hoping that Gwen pops in sometime today so I can clear up my read there.

Would love to see this, out of curiosity.

Deadle, please tell me you haven't fallen prey to the cult of Dipsy.

I've fallen prey to the cult of Dipsy. I'm townreading most of his posts, because they look like genuine scumhunting, even though their appearance aren't very polished.


--

Still townreading NA. Most people are scumreading for valid reasons, but given his identity, it is mostly playstyle clash.

More later. Ask questions if need elaboration.

Tldr:

ST: I'm town so Concorde is scum or VI.

ST: I contradicted myself but you suck.

ST: I am going to throw another townreads on town that I can't or won't defend and be weasely.

ST: Oh that Shady guy tunneling town is town.

[Concorde]

Wow another post attacking the Dmitri wagon without calling him town.

Soothsayer, your post is acknowledged. Missed last time. Dat shit.

The people off the Dmitri wagon need to explain why, without referring to the makeup of the wagon. That's circular. The wagon on Dmitri sucks. Why? The wagon composition is terrible. Why? He's town. Why? The wagon composition is terrible. Why? He's town. Why? Wagon composition is terrible. Rinse. Repeat.

[Concorde]

On further thought saving the reads list for tomorrow night, want a few questions answered first and hoping a few people, well actually a lot of people (Dead, Great, Gumby, Dimitri etc) show up and post content between now and then before I devote time to doing detailed ISO combs.

@Concode -

1) Can you explain your town reads on Quailford, Megfan and Opera for me with some reasoning please. 2) Can you explain your null read on me, it doesn't really match with your interactions (well lack of) with me, you've constantly avoided responding to anything I've posted to or about you; is there a reason you've not tried to a) Answer me or interact with me or b) Get a read on me thus far?

@Phantom -

Can you please remember to get around to answering my question to you in Post 507 when you catch up next.

@Dead

- You never got around to answering it before but can you explain your motivation behind posting Post 111.

Being null on you is quite generous actually. You haven't said word one about Dmitri's alignment, yet your view is that the people scumreading him are scum or dumb town. You've made zero effort to interact with Dmitri or call him out for lurking. You didn't care I directed no questions your way until you were a null.

Defending the Dmitri wagon while saying nothing is a fairly strong sign of being scum. I just like your activity level right now and I want you to keep talking to confirm or dispel my fears.

Now, as for your desperate attack the Dmitri wagon. Phantom is town. No way scum come swinging that someone will be the lynch without a troll gambit to hide behind unless the lynch is on their buddy.

Quailford has a posting style that's legit troll and leaves himself open to attack. He makes people's guts cry scum. Yet the closest thing to a case on Quailford is Gumby failing to realize trolling.

Now Meganfan is the only one with any chance of being scum. Yet if she was, why not just stay out of the fray and buddy me while everyone else calls me stupid? Instead, she casts a swing vote which put Dmitri at L minus 2. So she's not like to be scum.

Your Shady read is also shit.

[Concorde]

Unlikely. Two frozen wagons usually indicates at least one is scum. Also, to successfully do that, scum would need to defend Dmitri.

Fishing for emotional reactions is trolling to me.

Color the last VC with your reads please. Avatar suggestion?

[Concorde]

I read those posts. You're talking about the logical validity of Dmitri's wagon. In one post, you say the logic is valid, but not good enough to be pushing a case this strongly on. That tells me nothing about your Dmitri read whatsoever. Post 477 is no real analysis either. You give an IioA. 468 isn't analysis on Dmitri but rather the classic Dmitri can be scum, vote elsewhere.

Just because you say words that dance around the topic doesn't mean you have anything to say.

Also, I went and rechecked you ISO. You've had some things to say about me but 565 was your first attempt to reach out.

Say what you want but I don't like your passive aggressive attitude towards the Dmitri wagon and FMPOV, you look posse because you're getting called out.

[Concorde]

...Not looking forward to having to try and read Concorde. I always seem to get that one wrong.

Besides that moment of revelation, I haven't yet looked into anything. If anyone has suggestions on where to start, I'm all ears. I don't really have anyone I feel comfortable playing off of right now, so I'm feeling a bit lost.

So, the only thing you've done is alt hunt? In a game designed not to have identities as a crutch.

Why don't you try actually finding scum "active town role"?

[Concorde]

gumby that's not a good vote

in some sense i agree with soothsayer abt concorde's "out there" play coming from town but a lot of what he says i so crazy that i'm not sure. still need him to answer to this:

you claimed quail/dipsy both "had weak or nonsensical posting." Now you say they both have content.

also, You said this:

This Quailford read is a lot of bollocks and looks designed to prime the conclusion Quailford is scummier than Dipsy.

Yet now say this:

Quilford and Daisy both have content, even if I am scumreading Quilford for his. The comparison is littered through ST's so-called catch up. ST's comparison read there is utter shit.

SO WHICH ONE IS IT? WHY IS HIS COMPARISON SO BAD WHEN YOU AGREE WITH THE CONCLUSION?

I don't. I think they are both town. I figured you might not want to make an ass out of yourself when my colored wall has them both as town.

[Concorde]

The people off the Dmitri wagon need to explain why, without referring to the makeup of the wagon. That's circular. The wagon on Dmitri sucks. Why? The wagon composition is terrible. Why? He's town. Why? The wagon composition is terrible. Why? He's town. Why? Wagon composition is terrible. Rinse. Repeat.

i don't think there's been a single decent reason expressed for him being scum

entirely possible he is, but doesn'tseem likely the way things are going

Why have the reasons expressed been "not decent"?

[Concorde]

gumby that's not a good vote

in some sense i agree with soothsayer abt concorde's "out there" play coming from town but a lot of what he says i so crazy that i'm not sure. still need him to answer to this:

you claimed quail/dipsy both "had weak or nonsensical posting." Now you say they both have content.

also, You said this:

This Quailford read is a lot of bollocks and looks designed to prime the conclusion Quailford is scummier than Dipsy.

Yet now say this:

Quilford and Daisy both have content, even if I am scumreading Quilford for his. The comparison is littered through ST's so-called catch up. ST's comparison read there is utter shit.

SO WHICH ONE IS IT? WHY IS HIS COMPARISON SO BAD WHEN YOU AGREE WITH THE CONCLUSION?

I don't. I think they are both town. I figured you might not want to make an ass out of yourself when my colored wall has them both as town.

Reads change. That's facts 1 o 1. The comparison read is still shit regardless of my read though. The behavior, the attitude is shit.

[Concorde]

Glad you finally caught up, Dead. Can you color in the last vc with your reads?

ST, can you as well? Also there are not universal issues with Megafan. They want you dead because you're scum. You're not that elusive. If you're wrong maybe you can show some critical analysis beyond those agree with me are town and scum/VIs disagree. Some of the smartest people I know disagree with me. You can handwaive my work away for only so long.

[Concorde]

Oh, well, then do you want me to make up a paragraph-form argument for his scumminess, in which I basically let rhetoric do the job of filling the content?
Because that's artificial as fuck, dawg.
I'm not writing college papers here.

Megafan's 'schtick' is anti-town in every way.
Megafan's push on me was weak and awkward.
Megafan's votes are typically made without a consistency that I can track and often seem to be riding on what's popular at the time.
Megafan, when pressured, offers very little response and/or ignores the pressure away.

That's the bulk of it. If you disagree, then I'd rather not spend upwards of an hour in his ISO finding all the posts that support my claims. I'm not going to polish of a novel every time someone asks me why I'm reading someone the way I am. Have some confidence.

Meganfan has wanted ST and that's not popular at all. She's agreeing with me which is really not popular.

[Concorde]

Cell and Kumquat are buddies. Cell's wagon. Kumquat's wagoned. Neither votes each other. There's an all town wagon on Kumquat FMPOV. Cell's lead by Shady and soothsayer who I have reservations on.

Kumquat is obvious scum. Lynch the wagon that people are flailing to offer a counter for. Then maybe Cellphone.

[Concorde]

After kumquat flips scum, I am not opposed to a turbo lynch on CellPhone tomorrow. CellPhone's last post is absurd. The "actually" scum comment is not a slip at all. Soothsayer is stating that Cellphone is actually scum while Kumquat is not. The only way to argue that's a "slip" is to argue that Soothsayer knows Cellphone is "actually scum" because they are buddies. Somehow, I don't think that's Cellphone's argument.

[Concorde]

I am hammering in a couple hours.

[Concorde]

• Votecount 1.17
  
  
  xXSexyKumquatXx (5)— The Phantom of the Opera, Natural Aristocracy, Concorde, Gumby, Quailford LOL, Cellphone, Gwen,
  CellPhone (4)— the_soothsayer, Shady, You are dead to me, mega fan, kumquat, fear,
  
  Not on either Shiba
  
  It takes 8 to lynch or no lynch.
  
  
  Deadline
  
  
  >> Deadline hits in (expired on 2015-10-24 08:08:29). <<
  

[/quote]

[Concorde]

Only quat is at l minus 1. I was wrong. Someone else needs to hammer quat.

[Concorde]

Concorde, hammer Cellphone, please. He's much more likely to flip scum after getting a sense of their motivations through their most recent posts.

Answer dead to me.

[Concorde]

Dead, are you going to be around for the hammer? I have to leave in a few hours.

[Concorde]

Let me know soon. I can't swing to Cellphone if it would result in a no lynch. In a short window, I have to go to bed. I prefer Kumquat, but I am not no lynching.

P-edit. Ty.

[Concorde]

Going to go with this. This will be good for info as well. In other words, if he's town, that makes Phantom of the Opera even more likely to be scum.

vote: xxKumquat

That last part makes me nervous dead.

If there's a vig and Kumquat is town, Cellphone should be gigged.

[Concorde]

If Kumquat is scum, vig Shiva/GreatValue.

[Concorde]

VOTE: Cellphone aka Joey Tribbiani

After this flips scum, we should reevaluate Shady and Dipsy.

[Concorde]

I concur. Quail is town but your reason is wrong Dead.

I would have wanted to hold that as well. We would have had proof of the counter wagon likely being town.

[Concorde]

There's a remote chance of one other thing meaning Joey town but that will have to come from someone else.

Given the 99.9% Joey scum, we can infer an active scumchat.

[Concorde]

Gumby, Joey have to have an active chat for Joey to consider posting their first. There must be at least 1 active chat member with Joey.

Phantom's not scum for reasons I said yesterday.

1. Cellphone
2. GreatValue
3. Shady or Megafan

[Concorde]

The problem with that making sense from a looking-at-the-results PoV is that it confuses me as to why he'd inspect Quail. I find it odd that he didn't inspect me, a claimed Miller, to see if I were Vanilla or not.

Ooh and you're certain of that how? O.o

[Concorde]

We could do this.

VOTE: Shady

[Concorde]

So why did you shoot ST quail?

[Concorde]

Literally forgot about this game. Tis what happens when I play on alts.

Me too but hey I'm still voting scum.

[Concorde]

hey concorde: you're still shit and bad and no one except obvious-ass scum NA wants to follow you so

fuck off

You mean the same "obvious scum" you were counterwagoning instead of Cellphone?

VOTE: Shady

[Concorde]

Alright, I'll take the risk and just say it. I'd rather be accusing of "stalling" than modkilled but ya know.

Upon inspection from Cops aligned with the Town, they get a result of "is Mafia".

Yes, it specifies that as being the returned result.
Yes, it specifies Town Cops, and that results given to other roles are genuine.

As for the belatedness of the claim, I was considering just trying to play obvtown and hoping I don't get inspected (because claiming Miller will result in a policy lynch down the line) but I decided that I fucked that up so claiming was the best option.

I'm not very good at playing obvtown unless circumstances allow it.

Which specific circumstances would "allow" you to play obvtown?

Gumby's town.

The people off the Dmitri wagon need to explain why, without referring to the makeup of the wagon. That's circular. The wagon on Dmitri sucks. Why? The wagon composition is terrible. Why? He's town. Why? The wagon composition is terrible. Why? He's town. Why? Wagon composition is terrible. Rinse. Repeat.

Some years ago I tried to use speculation on alignments as a way to enhance VCA. It failed spectacularly and repeatedly. I have long abandoned the practice.

I fail to see the correlation between the quote and the ....whatever that is. Response? Non sequitur? Flailing? Whatever it is, there ain't no connection.

So why are you posting?

...Not looking forward to having to try and read Concorde. I always seem to get

that one

wrong.

Clarify? Or elaborate?

Quailford's town. Cellphone's trying to convince him of something. Of course, that makes me town too so I see Shady rebelling.

cellphone who do you think is scum

Definitely kumquat. Probably mega (but could be troll, so it's a weak scumread).

Phantom of the Opera is almost definitely scum, I just feel it.

To much lesser degrees, dipsy-doodle (largely for the lurking; yeah yeah pot kettle laugh it up already), dead to me, and soothsayer.

i dont think hes unlikely to get lynched

but that has the feel of a convenient read

There's quite a few people town reading Quailford and more that seem unwilling to change from Kumquat so I'd say it's fairly unlikely whereas Cell has a genuine chance of going through

and is actually scum

.

This just feels like a scumslip. Sometimes scum tend to magnify their targets to ridiculous levels.

VOTE: kumquat

Possible distancing here from soothsayer, but sooth is probably town.

Notice how the one wagon that Cellphone doesn't encourage or say anything about NA. Notice how Cellphone says nothing about Shady. Cellphone wants that NA wagon viable post flip.

[Concorde]

Shady/Gwen/GreatValvue

Scum should be in there.

[Concorde]

Shady, stop casting aspersions that can't be proven or disproven without breaking the spirit of the game.

SG, My "vanity" wagon only is one vote shorter than yours. Cellphone only had one vote for the longest time. If you want motion, you can stop voting town and join me on Shady scum.

I think Dispy and Opera are town, just like I said earlier. Nothing has changed from those reads.

[Concorde]

yeah np dude thanks for being attacked so I could see he's obv scum

*glares* Stop being dumb.