Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]
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Spiffeh He/HimParagoneHe/Him
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I am strongly against this planIn post 9, Leonshade wrote:Suggestion: We publicly agree on who builds which wonder, so that everyone else can submit no build request and get a higher priority during the next era. Then those player agree on which wonders to build while everyone else sits it out, and so on.
Also, I say Sciences on the resolution.
This would be like only having a few power roles and all of them outing themselves immediately
Scum then know who they have to worry about and can neutralize the role that's most threatening to them-
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VOTE: None
This should be the vote today
Sciences allows scum to plan ahead and know whether to save themselves to contest town for a certain ability in the future. They already have a numbers disadvantage so we shouldn't allow them any more information about roles than they get right now. I don't really see a benefit for town.
As for Arts, the only role I can think of that would have a significant impact on the game would be a lynchproof which only benefits scum. Things such as double votes could screw us over in LYLO/MYLO situations (though I'd hope Nahdia would design the game in a way where that couldn't happen).-
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@Titus I refuse to go another game coordinating night actions unnecessarily after The Thing Mafia. The Thing was different in that everyone's role was public knowledge so it made sense to coordinate night actions and even then, scum had a pretty easy time slipping through the cracks because of every night action being public.
What you're suggesting gives scum a roadmap as to how to proceed during the night JUST like it did in that game.-
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I'd like to know if picking Arts could fuck us over if scum end up getting like a double vote on a day with LYLO effect.In post 29, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
Why does it seem like you're thinking so far ahead?In post 23, Spiffeh wrote:@mod If Arts is chosen, will a vote/lynch mechanic still be available during MYLO/LYLO?
Like I said though, I don't think Nahdia would design a game where a decision this early would basically lose us the game in the end.-
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What do you think of Titus' case for Sciences?In post 56, Sondam wrote:I fully expect Gerry to want to take any wonder that has kill in the name....I may not stop him (B
Anyone who is voting art you're insane that's a pro scum choice and science is already explained on why it's trash now we gonna take 10 pages explaining this?
~Maria-
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Did you see that there is an option to vote for neither?In post 72, Elbirn wrote:In other news uhh I did read what the two resolutions do and i'ma stick with science. Giving us the ability to better plan ahead for wonders > possibly giving scum more vote power
Did you read the concerns brought up by a few players as to why Sciences is the best option for scum?-
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We are the true victims of the Thing endgameIn post 141, Sondam wrote:Take it from a group of people who did all the planning they needed for a scum win
And take it from the people who had to deal with it on the town side aswell town lost both times a ton of planning was put into something along these lines
(Pick your power and the thing)
This is a no go
~Maria
No one else will ever understand-
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I don't think you understand the mechanicsIn post 170, beeboy wrote:I just think we will get more powers if our day 1 powers are an investigative, doctor and a redirecting BP-
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I've never known Titus to be like some scumhunting God as her information growsIn post 241, Drixx wrote:Spiffeh you're better than this. Titus is absurdly good with information and if people will let her do her thing. Throwing shade on her for doing exactly what one would expect her to do as town ... not so good.
She's a fine player but this has never been one of her identifiers as far as I've known.
In The Thing we all had all the information out on the table and she didn't do anything special with it that everyone else didn't figure out themselves. So I am definitely not giving scum a significant advantage in knowing what roles to cash in on or wait for because" Titus can do things with information!!!".
Your "closing the information gap" argument doesn't resonate with me. It is much easier for scum to plan things out. There are less bodies to fuck things up and they will have a PT (because they will likely get the daychat ability) solely to plan out their actions. And if the plan is for each role to go to an assigned person and force them to target what a "town-bloc contingent" decides, I will be replacing out. A public plan was exactly how the scum team in the Thing won the game and I don't have it in me to go through all the bullshit that comes with a Night Action Plan again.-
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This is what should be doneIn post 415, beeboy wrote:I think the point is we just pick the role we like without actually talking about it.
And no one should be claiming whether they got a power or not
This way scum don't know who holds the power roles and don't have an easy nightkill mapped out for them. If we try to plan things out scum get an even greater information advantage than they already have.-
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I'm realizing that my biggest issue is with Science + Role Claiming + Night Action Planning
Going Science without the other two isn't as bad as it doesn't give scum the roadmap that will allow them to optimize their actions and kills.
Science by itself still gives scum an advantage imo as they have an easier way to plan which roles to take and maximizing their priority.
I also wouldn't be surprised if scum had some role that allowed them to mess with priorities but that is just speculation atm-
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Titus, the only reason it made sense to go with the Night Action Plan in the Thing is because literally every role was out on the table and everyone knew who had it.
There are too many variables in this game for it to be successful again.
We don't know what other roles scum could possess that can fuck things up. If we give them a night action roadmap a la The Thing, they are able to optimally use whatever they have to their highest advantage which can lead us on the wrong track during the Day.-
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Seriously?In post 461, Drixx wrote:
Do you only have an appeal to fear to work with?In post 454, Spiffeh wrote:Creature if you don't want this game to end up like The Thing, vote for None.
Did you not read literally every other post I've made today that outlines exactly why I feel None is the best option?-
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Who cares?In post 317, Akane and Nebby wrote:I wanna know why are you against wonder planning in public, Vecna. It lowers the possibility of two players picking the same wonder imo
People can go with what they want and if they don't get it then they don't get it. It's just like if power roles were being randomized at the beginning of the game, except with this draft we just state our preference.
PEdit: No Peregrine, everyone should pick what they want to pick.-
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I don't know if you're asking me to corroborate that this is your town metaIn post 437, Fro99er wrote:
SPIFFEHIn post 435, Yuri wrote:Frog: How or where do you get the notion of responding with "this is my obvtown game". Is it like... am I supposed to know your meta so you're self-metaing at me?
But I don't see anything that you've done so far that couldn't come from scum!Frog-
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Which posts did you feel came across disingenuous?In post 564, Maxous wrote:VOTE: Spiffeh
Yup.
Felt some of his arguments came across a little disingenuous, didn't like some of his passive-aggressive scumreads and didn't like his fear mongering because of how a town lost a previous game. Felt off
Random vote on Nero doesn't help
I don't know what you mean by "passive-aggressive scumreads" as I haven't really made public any scum reads. I barely even have any to begin with. The only person I really expressed suspicion of at any point was Titus for wanting to pick Science.
Also, you don't think previous experience with a similar mechanic isn't something I should draw from when deciding how to proceed? You can call it fear mongering, but I think it's weird to jump to a buzzword rather than look at my actual arguments and see if they're plausible.-
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I voted for Nero because his posts during the Resolution Phase looked like he posted them just to seem like he was participating in the discussion.In post 350, Nero Cain wrote:I don't really want to do none. Like its safe and doesn't change anything. I feel like Arts, eventhough I realize that it could backfire on town, could really help too.
The first of these posts amounts to no conclusion either way. Particularly the "arts could backfire but could also really help" doesn't really show depth in thinking, so I don't really see the need to post it if no real conclusion was drawn?In post 453, Nero Cain wrote:if you don't know what any of them do why is one better than the other?
The second is basically a throw away question (you can check the context yourself).-
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PeregrineV is my number one town read and I doubt that will ever change.
I got town vibes from Titus, Drixx, Vecna, Akane and Nebby, probably some others I'm forgetting
I don't really have any scum reads other than Nero. A bulk of the players significantly engaging with the Resolution decision seemed pretty town to me.-
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It's very unlikely that all scum would just avoid the phase altogether. Nero had what I feel is the scummiest contribution so far.In post 616, Akane and Nebby wrote:Spiffeh, going by that, wouldn't it be better for scum!Nero to not post at all?
Like, some people DID get away with that.
With that said I do agree with you and I also like the fact that you're poking Nero right now.
-Nebby-
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What about that post did you like?
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Still don't know what you're talking aboutIn post 599, Fro99er wrote:I'm not asking you to corroborate it's my town meta.
I guess it's been too long...look at what Yuri did.-
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I don't really think town would be more likely to ask that than scum.
I'd even argue that scum would be more likely to engage with a question like that because it's pretty low risk and makes it seem like they're contributing.-
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EwIn post 635, beeboy wrote:The Deo what is your read progression on my slot?-
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What's your issue with this reasoning? What do you mean by "overplaying"? Yes I said it multiple times and tried to convince people to vote my way. That's what I do when I feel strongly about something.In post 641, Maxous wrote:
literally your entire "argument" was don't give scum a roadmap to kills because it imploded in the Thing game.In post 606, Spiffeh wrote:Also, you don't think previous experience with a similar mechanic isn't something I should draw from when deciding how to proceed? You can call it fear mongering,but I think it's weird to jump to a buzzword rather than look at my actual arguments and see if they're plausible.
so what am i supposed to be debating?
IMO, you over-played it
as for the passive-aggressive stuff
Spoiler:
felt like they were overly non-comittal potshots at people.
I don't know how you could view what I said about Titus as "non-committal". I was very much calling her out on why I felt her reasoning for wanting Science was concerning.
The beeboy thing was basically a douchier way of saying I disagreed with pretty much everything he was saying.-
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pls I have no reason to town read you so we can't be mason partners
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Like Titus mentioned, the huge part you're skipping over is where I gave my reasons why Science benefits scum more and she was seemingly ignoring them. So you either interpreted it incorrectly or you're omitting it on purpose to justify your scum read.In post 681, Maxous wrote:plausible i suppose. i don't want to tunnel here.
can you explain the Titus read?..how it looked to me is:
Titus: Let's co-ordiante night actions
Spiffeh: No we lost the last time we did that
Titus: Yeah but we might not this time
Spiffeh: ur scum
i mean, Titus wanting to game night actions is something she does all the time anyway, so why the scumread?
You still haven't answered why basing my argument on a similar game was bad and what you meant by "overplaying" which makes me think you're just throwing out buzz words to make your read sound reasonable.-
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Are you talking about me?In post 706, Nero Cain wrote:What do you think of him scumreading me for scumreading Creature?
Because that's not why I'm scum reading you.-
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Btw reminder not to give any indication of whether you're going for a role today and which role you'd choose.
And when the roles are distributed, don't give any indication of whether you got one or not.
The less scum know about the location of the power roles, the less successful they'll be at neutralizing them.-
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Granted he's only a town lean. His early posts trying to figure out how the game work seemed genuine and it's my understanding that scum!Creature is more of a lurker and doesn't really offer up any insight unless it's expected of him. I feel that he's been pretty candid in this game so far.
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Max's posts didn't really ping me like yours did. I got the vibe he was just uninterested with the Resolution phase which isn't alignment indicative. I do believe his push on me is crap.In post 774, Nero Cain wrote:Spif should prob talk about why he SOLELY scum reading me for that but ignoring Max.
Are you scum reading him?-
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Ignore this, I see you are.In post 814, Spiffeh wrote:
Max's posts didn't really ping me like yours did. I got the vibe he was just uninterested with the Resolution phase which isn't alignment indicative. I do believe his push on me is crap.In post 774, Nero Cain wrote:Spif should prob talk about why he SOLELY scum reading me for that but ignoring Max.
Are you scum reading him?-
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In post 794, Fro99er wrote:I'm more sure on Uzi!town than Vecna!town.
Vecna basically meta cleared Uzi, which really only happens if they are scum together, town together, or if Vecna is scum and Uzi is town. I don't see a world in which Vecna is town legitimately meta clearing Uzi, and Uzi is pulling off this amazing scum game fooling Vecna.
So 2 of the 3 scenarios paint Uzi town, 1 of the 3 paint Vecna town. But of course town is more likely in general. So probabilistically I really like Uzi for town. Plus some of the posts I quoted from Uzi scream town to me, so it's not just a probability-based argument.-
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Froggy
I explained why I'm scum reading Maxous now. The post you quoted was in reference to what Max contributed during the draft phase.
Also, I'm not going to drop a scum read because someone I'm suspicious of is also on the wagon. I'm not aiming to catch the whole scum team Day 1 and am well aware at how impossible that would be.
Even then, you've done a few things that make me uncertain so I haven't yet cemented a read on you. So I don't get why you expect me to be discouraged from voting Max.-
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I think it's an unreliable way to get a read. Taking someone's word on someone else's meta isn't something I'm willing to do.In post 829, Fro99er wrote:
And please explain to me what is wrong with thisIn post 820, Spiffeh wrote:In post 794, Fro99er wrote:I'm more sure on Uzi!town than Vecna!town.
Vecna basically meta cleared Uzi, which really only happens if they are scum together, town together, or if Vecna is scum and Uzi is town. I don't see a world in which Vecna is town legitimately meta clearing Uzi, and Uzi is pulling off this amazing scum game fooling Vecna.
So 2 of the 3 scenarios paint Uzi town, 1 of the 3 paint Vecna town. But of course town is more likely in general. So probabilistically I really like Uzi for town. Plus some of the posts I quoted from Uzi scream town to me, so it's not just a probability-based argument.
I know you said you liked some of Uzi's posts too but this reasoning doesn't make sense to me coming from you.-
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gerryoat's insistence that Titus contradicted herself and desire for everyone to comment on it comes across as extremely town to me
Titus I do not buy what you're selling there
I also don't think Maria buddying me or "shading" others is particularly scummy
Literally the whole point of the game is to "shade" people and get them lynched, and I know from the The Thing that she buddies people pretty hard as town (Firebringer, EP, etc.)-
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Titus what the fuckIn post 909, The DEO wrote:A shade is any comment that puts a player in a negative light, doubly so when unwarranted. You've been trying to get me, Spiffeh, Drixx, Creature and A and N to turn on each other for awhile now.
Where did you get this impression-
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HEY MAXOUS:In post 1017, Maxous wrote:Still content with my vote on Spiffeh. His Titus read is not good and the vote on me is lol.
^ This was to you, please do this.In post 792, Spiffeh wrote:You still haven't answered why basing my argument on a similar game was bad and what you meant by "overplaying" which makes me think you're just throwing out buzz words to make your read sound reasonable.
Can people town reading Maxous please explain why because I'm about to engage hyper-tunnel-douchebag mode-
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In post 1110, Vecna wrote:Haha ok, creature rolled town this game for sure-
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Once again, That's not why I scum read her.In post 1303, Maxous wrote:I don't understand what you're asking me here.
Just because role management doesn't work in one game doesn't automatically mean it won't work in every game.
You scumread Titus for this apparently.
I was concerned by her because she wasn't acknowledging the valid arguments that people had raised against Science.In post 61, Spiffeh wrote:The fact that Titus is not acknowledging the concerns for Sciences that a few of us have raised and keeps harping on "but we could do this with these roles!!!" is concerning.
I don't know how you keep misinterpreting what happened-
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