Micro 892: TemporalLich's Micro Normal [Game Over]

[Donempire]

Im digging this

[Donempire]

VOTE: Dongempire
No dongs allowed here, this is a wholesome game

Family friendly murder game?
You sound like monokuma...

[Donempire]

Ahhh, another edition of that fun game “is icon actually scum or just mislynch bait”

You cock wont be lynching my man amytime soon. I want to play with him when im town.
Although if i see him doing something weird, i wont hold back.

[Donempire]

Cocks*

[Donempire]

Yeah icon is town so thats one less loose thread

[Donempire]

Digging bellas entrance as well, i dont see any problems with it.

Klick is smelling very scummy however. Dont want to shade and fade, i'll bring up my reasons for that now.

[Donempire]

Spoiler:

Im all for moving out of RVs as soon as possible,

You had a perfect opportunity to make this happen by letting a few more people react to the Lover thing - why shut it down?

Dont see the point of pushing on bell over this. Yes she

could

have but she didnt, and its not like its an alignment indicative thing. I'm not going to say it is shading directly, i dont think it is, but i still dont like this post.

Spoiler:

I mean, the main reason was because I found it hilarious.

There's also a reason related to getting out of RVS or something. But mostly lols.

It was post 11 when you claimed lovers. Weak excuse. I guess i can understand it being a friendly gest between two people that know each other, but then why the fake pressure in post 22? Doesnt add up.

Spoiler:

viewtopic.php?p=11129464#p11129464

@locke - fair. Didn't feel like fake claiming on day one was helpful, especially with ice's reaction. I wanted to focus on his weird reaction to a 2 vote wagon

On the contrary, I feel like letting it go a bit longer would have been fairly helpful. Gives us a starting point for discussion, yeah?

Agreed that Icon's start was a bit jumpy, but I wouldn't necessarily say that's AI.

Hm? Why mention that if you dont think its AI at all?

[Donempire]

Hmm..

[Donempire]

Dongempire, what changed between 77 and 82? Seems like a weird progression on Icon.

Nothing?
I hadnt read up on the game yet when i made the post, and just saw that icon was in the game and menals comment. Then i read up properly and saw he was towny.

[Donempire]

Also in regard to 83 and 84, not sure how you come out with TRing Bella over Klick? I don't find the posts you listed in 84 as particularly scummy. Also, while both their posting at the start of the day was null-ish, I don't think Bella's further posting has been especially great.

I dont tr bella, nor do i sr klick. I'm going through the motions, i think saying that i have strong reads on either would be stretching it right now. I do have a townread on ico however.

I mentioned bella because in the Bellaxklick discussion i thought she was by far acting more genuine compared to klick.

Not gonna fly with just saying the last posts are bad, provide examples if you want this cart rolling.

[Donempire]

Spoiler:

Im all for moving out of RVs as soon as possible,

You had a perfect opportunity to make this happen by letting a few more people react to the Lover thing - why shut it down?

Dont see the point of pushing on bell over this.

Yes she

could

have but she didnt, and its not like its an alignment indicative thing.

I'm not going to say it is shading directly, i dont think it is, but i still dont like this post.

Hm? Why mention that if you dont think its AI at all?

Great, a wiseass.

I'd appreciate it if you could keep the snark to a minimum, especially if its going to be unfunny snark like this.

[Donempire]

Yes?

I said i didnt see any problems with it, and that i liked it. That isnt enough for a townread but i do read her more strongly as town than i do klick. Is there a problem so far?
And with klick i told my problems with her.
I really wish you'd do more than just simple question marks or one liners.

[Donempire]

I dont tr bella, nor do i sr klick. I'm going through the motions, i think saying that i have strong reads on either would be stretching it right now.

I didn't say you do. What I meant by saying you "TR Bella over Klick" (and I see if my wording could've been a bit confusing there) is that you think Bella is more Town than Klick.

Not gonna fly with just saying the last posts are bad, provide examples if you want this cart rolling.

Examples of Bella's posts I'm not a fan of are 52 and 65. Sure, she's asking questions, but I'm not sure I see her using the answers for anything? To me it just reads like passive questioning of others.

I understood but after i already posted it lol my bad,
I guess what it comes down to is gut, i think bellas posting comes more naturally. Besides that, i dont really have anything to object with her posting, compared to klick at least.

Hmm... i agree that on their own they seem bad, but she hasnt posted yet. I'll keep those in mind.

[Donempire]

Spoiler:

Im all for moving out of RVs as soon as possible,

You had a perfect opportunity to make this happen by letting a few more people react to the Lover thing - why shut it down?

Dont see the point of pushing on bell over this.

Yes she

could

have but she didnt, and its not like its an alignment indicative thing.

I'm not going to say it is shading directly, i dont think it is, but i still dont like this post.

Hm? Why mention that if you dont think its AI at all?

Great, a wiseass.

I'd appreciate it if you could keep the snark to a minimum, especially if its going to be unfunny snark like this.

It's a genuine point against what you've said. You don't like it when I point out something that's NAI, yet you do it in the same post. I don't see how Town!you can find that scummy when you're doing the exact same thing.

I'm also rather confused by you finding me scummy, yet not scumreading me.

I'm not. Did you understand what i was trying to say? If you say i'm doing the exact same thing, you havent.

[Donempire]

You said Klick was very scummy but now you’re saying you don’t scumread him?

Guess so, yeah. I dont like her posts so much and if i had to say her alignment i'd lean more on scum, but besides that its early game and i dont think 3 posts are anything to go off by. I dont just question people i scumread.

[Donempire]

@datisi, this is what I do day one - I ask a lot of questions. I'm trying to get a read on people, not necessarily direct the thread.

Well, what have you got so far? If you're going to be doing one thing only at least share the results.

[Donempire]

To see you cry about it?

[Donempire]

I'm not. Did you understand what i was trying to say? If you say i'm doing the exact same thing, you havent.

I'm not really sure what this means, sorry.

Why do you townread Icon?

Hes active yet he doesnt post fluff... mostly. I cant point to any one post and say this is the one, pretty much most of his posts seem to be made with either questioning someone or pointing a contradiction out in mind. I also dont see him this nonchalant as scum, he is easy to read so it wouldnt make sense for him to give us something to read him off off.

[Donempire]

I thought it was funny

[Donempire]

but it was a fake dayvig

but it was a fake lovers claim

spitting straight fax

[Donempire]

Waiting, waiting... for someone to mess up, someone to wagon...

Ico! What do you think about klicks posts i mentioned?

[Donempire]

Actually dont answer that, i think bellas posts are much more of a minefield. I can probably add to post 146, will do at home.

[Donempire]

....would it help if I put it in a list with pretty colours? Are you always this bad at inference??

Town: mena, ice, datisi
Null: klick, chemist
Scum:locke
Person who.im scum reading but am aware it may be BC I hate their posting style: dong.

Wouldnt be bad if you gave reasons for those, considering how ass post 144 was.
Either way a readslist on page 8 especially when you havent given concrete reasons for most.

[Donempire]

Either way a readslist on page 8 is troubling*

[Donempire]

Hihi datisi.

I'm scum reading locke. His last post to me was slightly more reassuring as he acknowledged a few mistakes but his interactions with me don't feel like someone who's actively paying attention to the thread. I also think his interactions with ice feel wrong on this page.

I'm not actually scum reading ice. I'm not sure why he's locked on to 'omgus'. His posting on this page feels a bit...scattered, but genuine and the overall thought process about the vig seems legit.

You and menalqe look the most town, but as I said, I'm cautious about you.

I'm negatively reading dong, but am aware it might be more based on posting style ,- it's a slot I need to read more.

I'm super null on most people.

I've only played f2f with klick (got him turbo lynched the one time he was scum). Noone else has posted enough to read.

Bolded seems like the natural progression of winding up with a bunch of reads early on that you're not confident in.

Leaning town on Bella, I could easily see this being her town game.

X Doubt

[Donempire]

@Bella, how is Icon one of your confident reads now? You said earlier you can't read him well, and 144 doesn't seem that sure either? (also I can't see the colors either rip)

@Dong, why is a readslist on page

7

8 bad "either way"?

because it is filler. She provided no good basis on any of her reads and ultimately ended with a everyone null basis on post 144, so the reads in 150 may as well be made up on the spot. It provides no content and doesnt have context to back it up.

[Donempire]

I guess im fine with dropping the suspicion on you for now since i dont have anything substantial to push.

Ico is my townread for reasons i think i stated, if i didnt its because his posting pattern and content seems to come from a game solving agenda, rather than posting to post.
Datisi is forming into a townlean because of generally the same reasons as ico but the volume of her posts are low and i believe ico is engaging more with the people he questions.
Locke isnt null but i dont know what to make of him. His pushing bella does lift him in my reads but he is a low frequency poster, and his remarks regarding ico sound wishy washy at best. I'll go with slight scumlean.
I didnt have a problem with bellas posting starting out, but lately her posts seem to be directionless, what with her readlist and the everyone null deal. Scumlean...? Wouldnt mind more posts to question her with though.

No one else really caught my eye so far.

[Donempire]

Im fine with labelling all of chemists posts as NAI. Given that there are 9 anyways.
Chemist, what do you think about bellas readlist?
Do you have a readlist yourself?

[Donempire]

Can you try chemist

[Donempire]

Dong, I actually like your posting this page. I do better one to one, so if you have questions, hit me.

Nice, works out for both of us.

What do you mean by not liking my posting style? Like, the posting frequency, them being short etc or because of their substance? I can see it going either way, and i'd like to know what you thought even if you dont sr me over it anymore.

I dont understand the menalq townread either. I didnt see you mention him to the point of top townread (or i guess its top because of his placement on the readlist) and he didnt stand out to me as being especially helpfull, so i'd be happy if you could expand on that.

On mobile so typing is hard, i'll ask more at home

[Donempire]

Either way a readslist on page 8 is troubling*

@Bella, how is Icon one of your confident reads now? You said earlier you can't read him well, and 144 doesn't seem that sure either? (also I can't see the colors either rip)

@Dong, why is a readslist on page

7

8 bad "either way"?

because it is filler. She provided no good basis on any of her reads and ultimately ended with a everyone null basis on post 144, so the reads in 150 may as well be made up on the spot. It provides no content and doesnt have context to back it up.

Im fine with labelling all of chemists posts as NAI. Given that there are 9 anyways.
Chemist, what do you think about bellas readlist?
Do you have a readlist yourself?

I don’t like these posts

(1) nothing wrong with a readslist early on, and there’s nothing inherently AI about whether all the reads are explained in the initial post or not, so trying to suggest there is something AI there is scummy

(2) if a readslist page 8 is scummy, why are you asking chem for one? That just doesn’t make sense to me but equally this does give me a little pause because scum care more about making sense I think

(3) this should be 1 prob but I’m on my phone and can’t be fucked to edit as I’m a bit drunk too — I don’t think the first and second quote fit together? Like the first one is just that a readslist is bad to do this early. Then it’s that her particular readslist is bad because it’s unexplained and “filler”. I don’t think those comments come from the same place, I think the first one was made to throw shade, the second was made as a reasonable sounding explanation for the first one, but actually the underlying motivation for it doesn’t line up

VOTE: dong

Write this again when you're not drunk

F

see me after class

[Donempire]

Yup, wording problems. It is bad in that bella clearly has no concrete reads on anyone she reads yet put out one anyway, and that was more what i was trying to insuniate, page 8 was early and she didnt seem to have strong reads so putting out a readslist was an eyebrow raiser. I did a readslist too, so i dont think its inherently wrong but making one when youre on the fence is fluff.

Same deal with chem, i asked IF he had a readslist, if he didnt i wouldnt wamt him forcing one out.

[Donempire]

I'm not shading your analysis because you were drunk.

I called it out because it is incostistent, doesnt even adress the correct quotes and is all over the place. If you want me to take you seriously, the dont post drunk. That said, i will respond to your other post.

[Donempire]

Actually know what, my bad menalq.

I will respond tomorrow, im not feeling especially great today and i dont want to say overly aggressive stuff and sour the mood, its completely unrelated to the game. I have what im going to say ready and i'll post them tomorrow when im hopefully more relaxed

[Donempire]

Still, rewrite your fucking post. If you're not doing it im assuming that you dont want me to read you properly, and if thats the case i'll rip into its every single contradiction. Also you would then be accusing me of the same stubbornness you display.

[Donempire]

Would be
Would be
Would be
Would be
Would be
Would be
Would be
Would be
Would be
Would be
Would be

[Donempire]

Fuck it, this isnt going nowhere.

If you say you stand by it, see ya then.

[Donempire]

Sorry bella, i saw your post and i will respond to it.

[Donempire]

We are good team
sometimes dum sometimes hero
but we are team
we are who we are

[Donempire]

Hihi Dong,

P-edit. What was Dong's reason for asking me basically the same question in a less constructive way in the very next post? There's little to be gained from that.

To see you cry about it?

Firstly, i think some of the playstyle thing was this: I'm probably a sensitive flower but it seemed like a shitty way of shutting down discussion: I did actually want the question I asked answered. It'd be great if you could.

With the readslist thing, I agree it's super early and my reads were a bit vague, but 129 and 146 suggested that people weren't picking up on how i felt about a bunch of slots. I think I've explained my reads enough since, apart from mena, who you asked me about. Page 3, both ice and klick expressed a townread on datisi. Mena picked up that one f these, klick's, was an issue: this pinged me, because it felt like mena was persuing klick, who had a bit of heat from ice, and giving ice a pass - scummy. But their response in 72 explained their experience, and tried to sort ice more by putting a question to him: I'm not sure ice has responded, so: @ice 'Ico is saying that datisi would sheep him which is pretty obviously opportunistic and I’d like to know why he thinks someone who I respect the scumgame of would make a move that open'

It looks like a genuine, thought out response to something that pinged, and i liked how chilled it was. Tbf, their content since hasn't set my world alight, though.

Alright, i guess im sorry about that. My intention there wasnt to shut down discussion, as i didnt see it as a legitimate question when i typed it out, and i agree it was needlessly rash.
For why i wrote it, stubbornness i guess. I saw your post and responded to it, then in the pedits datisis response came up but i still went through with posting it anyway, since i didnt see any reason why i shouldnt. Looking back it does seem unnecessary, but what can you do.

Regarding the readslist, i see why you'd want to make it now, thank you.
But regarding menal, i dont see why you'd see a 3 sentence post that doesnt actually say anything makes you townread him. To me it just looks like another post, just one that explains his viewpoint. And especially i think its bad because it assumes the two players (klick and ico) have the same mindset and previous knowledge as he does and to read datisi based on that, or thats what i gathered. I'm personally scumreading him a lot right now, so what you perceive in his posts is important to me, and im not seeing it.
I agree that it may be genuine and laidback, but i dont see it as even a townlean post judging its content.

[Donempire]

I wouldn’t say I’m engaged no

Chemist you're getting high on my shitlist and im gonna policy lynch you soon, we shouldnt have to TELL you to play

[Donempire]

Spoiler:

Either way a readslist on page 8 is troubling*

@Bella, how is Icon one of your confident reads now? You said earlier you can't read him well, and 144 doesn't seem that sure either? (also I can't see the colors either rip)

@Dong, why is a readslist on page

7

8 bad "either way"?

because it is filler. She provided no good basis on any of her reads and ultimately ended with a everyone null basis on post 144, so the reads in 150 may as well be made up on the spot. It provides no content and doesnt have context to back it up.

Im fine with labelling all of chemists posts as NAI. Given that there are 9 anyways.
Chemist, what do you think about bellas readlist?
Do you have a readlist yourself?

I don’t like these posts

(1) nothing wrong with a readslist early on, and there’s nothing inherently AI about whether all the reads are explained in the initial post or not, so trying to suggest there is something AI there is scummy

(2) if a readslist page 8 is scummy, why are you asking chem for one? That just doesn’t make sense to me but equally this does give me a little pause because scum care more about making sense I think

(3) this should be 1 prob but I’m on my phone and can’t be fucked to edit as I’m a bit drunk too — I don’t think the first and second quote fit together? Like the first one is just that a readslist is bad to do this early. Then it’s that her particular readslist is bad because it’s unexplained and “filler”. I don’t think those comments come from the same place, I think the first one was made to throw shade, the second was made as a reasonable sounding explanation for the first one, but actually the underlying motivation for it doesn’t line up

VOTE: dong

Since you say you made this drunk, im ignoring the structural problems, like how the second quote doesnt mention anything about chemist. However i dont like the stubbornness you display about it when you are not drunk.

First point refutation, it isnt. And you clearly didnt read my post if you think thats what im insuniating.
Since you slander me in this post, heres the original quote for context.

Either way a readslist on page 8 especially when you havent given concrete reasons for most.

Notice the second part where i say "no concrete reasons given for most."(I dont like insulting peoples intelligence , but if you're going to ignore entire parts of my post, then i have to) When someone posts a poorly explained readslist fairly early into the game, i WILL question it, and i understand that you want to shut down discussion but you're going to have to try harder than just saying it "isnt AI" to make me stop.

Second point refutation, i ask chem to give one IF HE HAS ONE. My intention here is to pull chemist back into the game if possible but not to force him to give a fake readslist if he doesnt have one. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Third point refutation, again you crop my quotes to fit your narrative. I already explained it but:
Its bad in bellas case, because her reads at that time were unexplained. I believe she could have had good reads but her reasoning for those werent conveyed properly. I'm not "throwing shade" if im explaining my thought process logically right after, you would agree?

All in all, this looks like picking and choosing my posts to push a scum!me narrative, with ignoring half of my posts context and throwing hefty accusations with nothing to back them up. You know what this means.
VOTE: Menalquébec

[Donempire]

Quebecs other posts are pretty bad too, i hope to get to them soon.

I’d lynch in dong/icon atm

Dong, waiting to hear back from you on why I’m wrong about those posts being bad/scummy

Icon, he was around early game and then kinda disappeared? So I feel like that could have been busy work trying to get himself credit for the activity even while I don’t think a lot of his play was really driving the game forward. On the flip side, icon has a rep for being mislynch bait and that makes me hesitant, plus in my only encounter with scum!icon he was trying a lot harder to actively create a fucked up gamestate whereas here he’s just,.. not here?

Now I think about it. I don’t love the fact that dong is TRing icon based on early stuff, not datisi having him in “do not lynch” based on the content he’s provided so far

Also fwiw I lean town on chem? He hasn’t done a lot, but I think he’s done some stuff without really being under pressure yet — and that reminds me more of pfup where he was town, rather than ruby where he was scum and only did anything when he was under pressure from town. I think he’s another player who’s quite easy to mislynxh, so is rather not go here today because I think he’ll become increasingly easy to sort as the game goes on

Define "not being under pressure"? I poked at him a lot to step up his game and he seems to conveniently keep ignoring them time and time again.
And seriously, do you have to be under pressure to play the game you signed up for? I understand that its sort of a meta read, but even in this case you dont commit to a townlean on chemist saying "i'd rather not go there today" wtf?

[Donempire]

I'd say let heaven come back or replace before jumping to stuff, lynching him right now and him flipping town would mean we wouldnt have any leads going into day 2 since he basically never interacted with anyone. Instead im wondering what you think about menal? Also, ico hasnt come back so im waiting on him too.

[Donempire]

Lynching a singular scum isnt the end goal, its a means to an end to lynch both of them, that is our single wincon. I've seen many games with a day 1 scum lynch that end on a 3p lylo.
What i want to do today is get a lynch thats fruitfull enough that we dont end up struggling on the coming days, and rushing a heaven lynch, whatever he ends up flipping, will do just that.

Thing about menal is hes posting just enough content to seem like hes advancing but if you look at the content they are hollow and impartial, and that says to me that he has an agenda.

[Donempire]

Heres what i see:
Menalq is pretty much confirmed scum to me. Him putting words into my mouth and cutting parts of my quotes to fit a narrative is bad enough, on top of that he has been very wishy washy in posts like 246, where he just makes statements without much backing them. His chemist and ico reads seem ingenuine to me and overall i cant see town making the posts he made. Besides, he is townreading chemist but he hasnt bothered to actually persuade us why and seeing as he is a player nearing the lynching block i see this as more of a "see i told you" after he flips town rather than trying to save or work together with him.

If we can get a flip on him i can make a lot of associations, for example i doubt he is partnered with either chemist or klick for different reasons.

[Donempire]

Actually i'll probably make a whole case on him tonight, so everyone can see where im coming from fully.
Besides that, im feeling confident in updating my readslist:
Menalq is obviously scum in here.
I've begun to townread klick with his later posts because his thought process is something i can jive with.
I feel like i should scumread bella for some reason, posts like 264 rub me the wrong way but overall i like her posting. Posts like 195 especially say that this comes from a town perspective. I'll read more into her though because im fairly certain theres something im missing. For now im townreading her.
Ico is still my townread, though i do wish he could come here soon. I dont think low activity is telling for him, hes probably either away on a vacation or something else irl. Either way i dont see him avoiding the thread as either faction, therefore i think its NAI.
Datisi seems towny enough for me. None of her posts come out at me as having an ulterior motive.
Ever since locke increased his posting rate i see that he is towny. Posts like 268 show that he cares about finding scum more about just getting a lynch through and im confident in this read.
I think chemist is town, not because of any of his posts but because of menals irrational townread of him feeling like its there to get easy credit. I did say im up for a policy lynch if this continues though...

So to recap:
Klick is my top townread, then ico, then locke, and then bella.
Datisi and Chemist i also dont want to lynch today.
And that leaves Heaven and Menal as the possible lynches, though i of course prefer menal because through that i can make associates.

[Donempire]

I dont have meta read on him, this is my first time playing with him. However i cant see that he would miss my post considering that the one he chose to reply to was posted immediately after it to fix a typo.
Thing is, i dont have to give a reasonable explanation for that statement because that isnt the whole context. The post he replied to is a typo fix, of course its missing context. For all intents and purposes, post 154 may not even exist and nothing would change except a few people might not understand what i meant. Replying to that and claiming im scummy because of that is inherently dishonest and thats why im scunreading on that front.

I guess i dont mind the ico read as much as the chemist tr, because i dont really see it coming from a town POV if he isnt going to protect him. He seems to be rolling with whatever lynch gets through.

[Donempire]

I guess ir you look at things thay way, i understand. In fact if all menalque did was takeþg4 my original post and criticize it i would be fine with that. I think i used a vague statement there and it deserves getting called out.

If that was the case i mean. I'd probably townread him for pressing on a vague statement to understand what it meant. However instead he uses it to push a lynch by leaving bits out of it. I think you understand that much.

Thing is i asked menalq to redo it specifically to see if he was intentionally ignoring the first post. He didnt do it because:
If he didnt mention the first post again it would be pretty obvious he was ignoring it on purpose and trying to push a faulty lynch rather than try to determine my alignment,
Ans he couldnt include it because then theres no case to be made then.
Do you have any other scumreads besides chemist? I may think about this one.

[Donempire]

Sure, why not

[Donempire]

Do i need to respond to these or...? Like just reading through them halves my braincells but if you have any questions about it i guess

[Donempire]

Do i need to respond to these or...? Like just reading through them halves my braincells but if you have any questions about it i guess

This pings like an attempt to discredit tbh

It is, because i dont like these shitty posts.

Do you just come to the thread to lick menals boot?

[Donempire]

Do i need to respond to these or...? Like just reading through them halves my braincells but if you have any questions about it i guess

I would say that as long as you keep it civil, yes you should give your own response considering you're the own pushing for Mena as the lynch today

I guess so... thing is i dont want to be talking to an empty audience, so far whatever i said fell on deaf ears and menal is using that to just spout as much shit as his mouth can fit.
Like, i know im not convincing klick, bella is also problematic to convince, chemist is just in the thread to troll, ico is vla, like who else is left? I dont see a reason to make a case if all im going to get in return is a menal post saying "DAE DONG SCUM?? XD"

[Donempire]

Lynching a singular scum isnt the end goal, its a means to an end to lynch both of them, that is our single wincon. I've seen many games with a day 1 scum lynch that end on a 3p lylo.
What i want to do today is get a lynch thats fruitfull enough that we dont end up struggling on the coming days, and rushing a heaven lynch, whatever he ends up flipping, will do just that.

Thing about menal is hes posting just enough content to seem like hes advancing but if you look at the content they are hollow and impartial, and that says to me that he has an agenda.

This is more bad logic. I don’t think lynching scum D1 is ever, ever bad for town in a micro. Yes, it can lead to 3p lylo but generally town still has a massive advantage in figuring shit out (esp if there’s any power at all) and if they can’t then they deserve to lose

Lynching for associatives is terrible because, guess what, this is a mixed information game. Scum are always gonna have more control over associatives than town, so they’ll always have more power to set those up. So just lynch scum and figure out the other bit later

So the post is scummy because it’s advancing a line of thought which looks like it’s trying to be helpful while actually advancing bad ideas that are anti-town

Also, yes, obviously I have an agenda? Every player here has an agenda. In this case, mine is to find scum and lynch them and yours is to mislynch town. And either my content is hollow and impartial, or I’m actively misrepping what you’ve said and trying to get you mislynched. That’s clearly not hollow/impartial. You can’t have it both ways depending on what’s convenient for the line you’re peddling at the time

ok

Gonna shorten this for people that value their iq:
Dong bad, dong post scummy because, did you see his haircut?

[Donempire]

Yeah repeat that for about 5 times and you have my response to lockes wall of text.

All of them just come from such a shitty angle of "DAE DONG BAD???????????" that whatever i say in response to them will make me look bad because all the questions and statements there are loaded.
Like the above post just says its bad logic because... he

thinks

its bad logic. Literally.

I don’t think lynching scum D1 is ever, ever bad for town in a micro.

What do you expect me to say to that? "Your opinion is wrong"?
Yeah im not going to answer these. All i can hope is that everyone sees the blatant trap menal set by saying these loaded statements and sees him for the scum he is. He is scumhunting in word only. I rest my case.

[Donempire]

hi all, i kinda skimmed the thread earlier, but didnt really deepread it. if someone could give me a tldr while i actually do that, thatd be appreciated

Bella got a lot of flak during both the start and midgame but i townread her now, might want to look into that a bit.
Chemist is getting wagoned because hes prodging and generally being unhelpfull
Menal is spouting shit
Ico is afk
Think i got all the important stuff in.

[Donempire]

Not even the least bit surprised.

So this is heaven and menal. Which one are we going for, or do you fine folk want to policy chemist?

[Donempire]

HAHAHA

This is a stand up show

[Donempire]

Klick can we lynch menal please? I'll buy you icecream after

[Donempire]

And no one was surprised

[Donempire]

Dong bad

[Donempire]

The fact is you are pushing me even after i gave you a chance to fix a clearly broken post, because i "didnt engage with it"
Its
What is it?
Like why the fuck would i give an ounce of a fuck to a dishonest scumbag like you? In game anyway
What posts do you want me to reply to, spit it out if you're this insistent that im evading you

[Donempire]

Is there really 2 scum in the game? Am i being pranked right now?
I suppose it is a good fucking prank, it just dragged on for,
5
Days.

[Donempire]

Dong bad

[Donempire]

I didnt? I'm sorry, i did see that and i thought i replied to it previously.

I explained the chemist read before, but to reiterate i think that the way he defended chemist and the time at which he defended chemist, that being when chemist was nearing the lynching block and defending by just saying "slight townlean" rather than actually bringing up points for people to reconsider. At that point making a point about chemist was wholly unnecessary, but if you actually had a townlean on him, then i think you should actually be worried about his head rolling off into the sunset soon, otherwise whats the point of townreading him?

Klick is different because i dont think scum!klick engages this way with scum!menal. Basically he doesnt treat him more importantly than any other person posting yet he doesnt ignore him either, and the way he addresses him seems natural. I had a few posts in mind but i forgot, i will notify you when i do remember.

[Donempire]

Also the fact that you’re just so fucking desperate to try and frame this as me just saying “dong bad” which you literally won’t shut the fuck up about

But instead of giving reasons for why that’s all my content is saying, you just keep repeating the same thing

Desperate for... what exactly?
I know that this town isnt even fucking voting you, so all i can try to do is shout a bit so people reconsider giving your smelling posts another chance and see how fucking atrocious those are.
I dont need to be townread, i dont care about being townread in either my town or scum meta, i just do whatever i like, so not desperate for that either.
so what exactly am i desperate about?
And yes, your posts are "dong bad." pure and simplified. They constantly view my posts in bad faith, turn everything i do, as towny motivated as they may be into hitlers cum, and lay traps so that if i even attempt to respond to them i'll be seen in a worse light. Dont expect me to respect your posts simply because they are addressed to me. I honestly couldnt give less of a shit, i know that responding to those will only make you spout further shit and the circlejerk will continue. If anyone here was willing to reason, they would have pages ago.

[Donempire]

You entirely ignored 291 and 292 and your response to 296 was literally just taking things out of context and claiming there was no logic there at all

So you know

I’d like it if you’d respond to the posts that I made about you being scum rather than just ignoring them or misrepping the arguments being made

Yup!
You still havent given me ample reason to consider responding to them either.

And... here we go ladies and gentleman. The master of misrepping me says im taking things out of context.
...Yes? That was the whole point of 305? It was to mock you? Are you so dense that you dont get it?
Or would you like me to stop insulting you and just own that you are pretending to be mentally deficient because you rolled red?

[Donempire]

I believe that people who arent voting menalque right now are insulting his intelligence directly by saying "yep, that comes from town!menal" but thats just my take on it.
VOTE: Chemist
L-2 i think
im just itching to get a 2 day cooldown so i dont have to bother

[Donempire]

I need to get my head around the mena/dong thing, because i got strong town vibes from dong's 121 interactions with me. I initially thought it was an interpretation issue and was t-t but I am aware I'm skim reading more as the posts get more vexed.

@dong, don't understan your latest posts: what do you mean 'really two scum in the game'?

dont. one more people convinced will change nothing if the rest of the town is playing blind

i meant it as a joke, as in there is 4 scum in the game since everyone is oblivious to his posting that they must be faking it

[Donempire]

one more person*

[Donempire]

lets just lynch chemist, it seems like the easiest choice right now.

[Donempire]

lets just lynch chemist, it seems like the easiest choice right now.

If you’re going for the easiest choice instead of the scummiest person you’re doing it wrong

Im fine with doing it wrong

[Donempire]

Menal i stopped taking you seriously when you ignored my simple request for you to revise your drunk post and then when i criticized it for being bad you threw a hissy fit saying "i did it while drunk"

[Donempire]

If it were 3 years ago i'd self vote and replace out. Hell i probably would have done it 5 pages ago.
Keep pushing, im not going to bite the bait.

[Donempire]

I guess i used to have fun back then and ignore the dickweeds, so in a sense i kind of miss those times. Hmm....
Come on the chemist train, we're driving it straight into a brickwall.

[Donempire]

Icon isnt -
Nevermind. I realized what game i was in.

[Donempire]

Well if everyones throwing lets just have fun.

Sorry for the toxicity. Though i dont think its unjustified for menal to get a whooping after making me read those posts i realize that i didnt need to go there anyway. My heads out of my ass for now. Can we lynch chemist today?

[Donempire]

Alright im claiming town masons with ico.

[Donempire]

well since that page was basically just dong being a toxic asf, I can sum my thoughts up pretty quickly:

If it were 3 years ago i'd self vote and replace out. Hell i probably would have done it 5 pages ago.
Keep pushing, im not going to bite the bait.

Honestly dong, fucking go for it, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out

pretty sure both of these posts are against the rules
can this bullshit please stop

Even if they arent they are bad for the game overall, and thats what the rules should be preserving. Thats why im done with thaf
Anyway, the chemist train leaves in one hour. Hop on board

[Donempire]

Cry about it as much as you want, i apologized and wont do it again. Would you prefer that i doubled down on it like you did?

[Donempire]

No apologies necessary

[Donempire]

Kill me

[Donempire]

Just let this day end please

[Donempire]

Yeah at least now i know icon is certainly town. Im fine with getting lynched today.

[Donempire]

Also its kind of a reason ive been trying to end the day early.
Whatever, i hope this gave you enough information. I talked with ico about a scenario like this and im happy i wasnt wrong about my townread.
You'll see what i actually am once i flip, and you'll see why i didnt hesitate for a moment to claim mason.
VOTE: Dong

[Donempire]

Actually, this seems like a pretty anticlimactic route. Hell, i went for a chaotic approach, i'll go all in
Due to popular demand, i would like to live for at least one more day.
In place of that i offer you a menalque lynch. Im afraid a bottom feeder chemist lynch is pretty much out of the equation right now. You know i'd never be satisfied with that when i have confirmed scum in my sights.
VOTE: menalque

I think what everyone should keep in mind is that i can both explain my reasoning on the mason claim and a menal lynch will give us a lot more information, along with flipping scum of course.

[Donempire]

Klick, i want to work together. Just townreading me doesnt help. I get it that you have your own reads, but i havent been pushing menal over nothing for the last few pages. I believe that a lynch between me and menal will lend the town to a better day 2 and a menal lynch will lead to the best day 2.
What do you say to trusting my read this one time?

[Donempire]

That sounded too AtEish. Hmm...

How about just lynch between me and menalque and we're golden? Goes off to everyone of course.

[Donempire]

Regarding chem’s readslist, I think the way you asked implied that you were asking him for a readslist. Now who’s ignoring context? You’d literally just called someone out for posting their readslist that’s unexplained and then you’re like “hey, got a readslist?” to a player who hasn’t done a lot. Are you actually so socially unaware that it sounds like you want an affirmative answer there?

See this is why i cant respect you, you project your stupidity onto me.

Alfred, can you pull up my original post for me?

Im fine with labelling all of chemists posts as NAI. Given that there are 9 anyways.
Chemist, what do you think about bellas readlist?
Do you have a readlist yourself?

Also i've said many a times that you can have a readslist by page 8, however bellas reasoning for her reads werent cohesive back then. How many times do i have to say this for you to remember it?
Alright, i'll probably insult you further if i go into it. I'm just hoping that everybody can see what im getting at here.

[Donempire]

Menalque's frustration with you was genuine and I'm pretty strongly convinced it was town-motivated.

Tell me what the SCUM motivation is in him butting heads like this with you today. I know you're saying he's putting words in your mouth and trying to spin his own narrative to get you lynched. But he really doesn't have to double down like that and bring attention to himself if he's scum here, and in fact it's much more likely that he'd sit around in the sidelines letting the easy lynch happen. Because he wasn't in any danger of getting lynched today until he got into this fight with you.

This level of stubbornness on both sides comes from town so much more often than scum. And I'd wager both of the actual scum are sitting on the sidelines letting this trainwreck happen.

Well, i dont think he intended to butt heads with me straight on when he first started posting. Thinking back i dont think he even intended to take on me at all and got a bit of a drunk encouragement. It all makes more sense if you view it from a scum POV, if he was town i believe he wouldnt have bothered posting drunk or even if he did, he would revise it to portray his point better. As town he either has to make his point clearer or he has to say that he was maybe reaching with this. In fact, thats what i was aiming to determine with me asking him to revise it, because i knew that if he was town and believed in this case he couldnt possibly mind revising it both to make me understand it clearer and to, you know, not get into a pointless argument.

Thats point one on why i think his posts are scum motivated, that he didnt bother remaking a barely decipherable post to make me understand it better, and when i did rip into it like he asked me to he straight up ignored it. Thing is i still probably wouldnt have minded it if he did respond to it explaining his thought process better but standing by the original content. He says he stands by his post, yet hes absent to defend it.

Misrepping is taken into another level when i say i'll policy lynch chemist, which is, you know, when you do it without any proof because a player is causing trouble? And in 292 he takes it as though im trying to shade chemist somehow, even though

i literally say policy lynch clearly in my post.

This isnt stupidity, its straight up ignorance. I knew he was doing it in previous posts and can pull them up as well, but he doubled down on painting stuff his way so much in his later posts that i'll just go with those. Thats point number two.

His reads besides me arent consistent either. It seems like hes so tunneled on me that he forgot he had to have other reads too. Chemist read for example seems to have taken a complete 180 ever since he was "townleaning" him with zero explanation on his side. This strikes me as though hes trying to seem engaged by constantly butting heads with me without actually trying to find scum. Thats point three.

Menal, Klick, feel free to discuss any problems with these. These are my main reasons for believing he is confirmed scum.

[Donempire]

nice reps

Thanks man! I did 20 today, will probably do 30 tomorrow. Hows your workout going so far?

[Donempire]

also, just quickly as I'm about to eat but:

(1) I drunk post as either alignment, and I don't do revisions when they're not needed. everyone else seemed to understand that post perfectly well/what I was getting at, you're the only one insisting that the thought process doesn't make sense. plus I made another post afterwards which was pretty much just supporting the drunk post and laid out perfectly logically, so any reasonable person would just take that as "revision" but you're looking for things to make me scum which is why you're trying to make such a minor point into a key point of your meta!scum argument

Mhm. Why havent you responded to my post that addressed your drunk post yet then?

(2) "barely decipherable" is clearly bullshit, if other people had a problem understanding it they would have made that clear, you're making this up as a justification for why you found me scummy for something that is perfectly explainable as town behaviour but doesn't fit your narrative

Why did you write the same point twice?

(3) here's the entirety of 292. nice misreps

Alright. Dont see what that proves.
You should know that policy lynch doesnt mean the same outcome, in a policy lynch you end up with minimal information. Keep telling yourself its the same thing i guess.

I wouldn’t say I’m engaged no

Chemist you're getting high on my shitlist and im gonna policy lynch you soon, we shouldnt have to TELL you to play

Also this is real fucking scummy

You bury a nice little comment backing a lynch on chem

Then you make a ‘case’ on me and vote me

Like if chem!town then this is just obvious distancing from the mislynch while still showing you’re okay with it (tbf I take it back if chem is the lynch for today and he flips scum) — also, before you say I’m misrepping: I know you said “policy lynch”. But guess what, that doesn’t matter because it’s still supporting the same outcome.

Also the timing of the post. It’s immediately before you make a case for me and start trying to put attention there to distract from your soft pushing of chem

(4) stop lying. I literally explained my town!lean on chemist. I went from town leaning him to town reading him because you were acting so incredibly scummily that I thought he couldn't be scum by association as you wouldn't push your buddy D1 as an alternative to me.

???? alright

[Donempire]

dong 440 : "since [mena] was townleaning [chem] with zero explanation on [mena's] side"

mena 297 : "honestly, my chem townlean before the associationals from dong which is now prob the larger part was basically from 101 and 197"

Oh my, were still on this. Alright, alfred, pull up my post once more.

His reads besides me arent consistent either. It seems like hes so tunneled on me that he forgot he had to have other reads too. Chemist read for example seems to have taken a complete 180 ever since he was "townleaning" him with zero explanation on his side.

Now to your credit there is a mistake here. However it isnt what you think it is.
When reading your post 293 i thought that you went back to scumreading chemist - a point that i see was wrong going back and rereading. There are a few reasons why i thought that, namely the last paraghraph, but now i see what you meant there.
However the point you're harping on about, the "i explained the townleaning part"... yes?
You know how i mention that you turned a 180 - that was to say that you went back to scumreading him. I know that your townleaning has, if very thin, reasoning. However my point there was that you turned 180 degress "with no explanation."
Heres the full sentence for you:
"Chemist read for example

seems to have taken a complete 180 ever since he was "townleaning" him with zero explanation on his side

."
I dont know how you took it, but i wrote it as " he used to townlean, now it took a complete 180 with no explanation."

[Donempire]

If you’re not gonna vote dong then go ahead and fucking vote me because I’m not backing off it at this point

Then after I flip green you can keep your shitty TR on him because he’s just a certain type of player with a “specific personality type” and go ahead and lose the game

Let’s totally ignore that I’ve got scum right D1 on like 4/5 of my most recent towngames but because I’m not the best at explaining people don’t fucking listen to me. And I tried to adjust for that this game based on feedback from other games but apparently trying to actually explain things doesn’t count for jackshit in this game. Even in the game where I didn’t push scum D1 I was on him early because that’s the game where I talked myself off korina onto mislynch bait

Do you want the others? Got scum skitt + epic creeper D1 in 1951/53 whatever it was

Got pine scum D1 in added to the group chat

Got icon scum D1 in purge

And in my first mini normal (can’t remember the number) I got luv scum on D1

I think I’m missing pfup as it’s my first large game, and obv I’ve missed my scum game but my point is my reads are actually pretty fucking good and constantly get ignored because of a mixture of not really being great at the persuasion part of the game and not having a strong enough reputation to just get sheeped on shit

You may remember all your achievements but frankly, i only remember the ones where i didnt steamroll scum. Those are much more far in between.

The appeal to emotion is blatantly obvious. Thing is this speaks volumes that you ran out of arguments to make here.

By the way for clarity, i've played with only one player before in this game and thats ico. Regarding reputation im not infamous or famous enough to even be greeted by anyone. You are projecting your own failings into me having to have a strong reputation, but this game is all im being judged upon.

[Donempire]

Yet my reads are still always top class and i get listened to enough times for me to be happy. And if you arent good at persuading people to think your way and would rather guilt people into voting with you, because, you had good reads before, why do you play?

I think everuone can see how opportunistic my wagon is.
Vex has been silently wagoning the most popular wagon since he came.
Chemist is jumping around easy lynches while saying he shouldnt be lynched lol
And datisi is going with the easiest choice.
I dont mean to say i scumread everyone on my wagon, clearly not. What my goal is with this post is hopefully persuade datisi and chemist to think things through.

[Donempire]

Datisi's progression onto the Dong wagon isn't pretty. She goes from feeling Towny about Dong to voting Dong after Dong doesn't answer her question, and after the Mason gambit thing, she places her vote back on Dong. I'm not super convinced Datisi has put much thought into whether Dong is actually scum - her jump onto that wagon feels opportunistic and safe. She fits the bill.

I was TRing Dong in the first half since I believed that they're Towny, I felt we were thinking similarly on our Icon read and the whole DongvMena thing felt like Town talking past eachother. Dong had been getting worse imo, and when I was trying to interact with them, I felt they were ignoring my questions. Then that Mason/not Mason/basically Mason? thing that is really rubbing me the wrong way came around. And how is that wagon safe? Mena was the only one on it at the time, and a good portion of players seems to believe he's voteworthy.

Where have i ignored your questions? I only missed one and that was only because i thought i replied to it already. If i missed anymore just say, i've cooperated so far.
My wagon is safe because you can justify everything by saying i lied about the mason claim, like a certain someone. I've put a willing target on my back to save ico, how safer can you get than that?
And the mason part is complicated. I dont want to complicate stuff further since 15 hrs left.
But think about this: would scum!dong do this to save scum!ico? If i die its instant loss. Would scum!dong do this to save town!ico? It would end up being a scenario likes this but:
1- my play before this was being townread heavily, why risk it?
2- i dont have a reason to want ico on my side as scum
Think about this for a while.

[Donempire]

Lags over, so do you unvote me now?
Like i said, the games pretty complicated and i dont want to further split the discussiom by derailing it into the private threae argument. I simply dont believe its worth the time we'll spend on it.

[Donempire]

PROXY: Iconeum

Or if this isnt allowed, just VOTE: Chemist

[Donempire]

Oh

[Donempire]

Well that was... turbulent.

[Donempire]

I didnt know it was l-1, i was trying to give icon a proxy vote so he could use it if i wasnt here near day end

[Donempire]

I got a few interesting stuff to say, but im going to wait for bella before i say anything.

[Donempire]

Hi. How are you?

Just wanted to know if you had anything to say.

[Donempire]

Hes inactive in the pt too. This is a weird turn of events anyway.

Oh regarding the masons claim... we're not. We're just neighbours. Theres enough in the pt he posted that convinces me hes town, but obviously i cant show it to you so this read is unique to me im afraid.

For why i claimed masons, i thought ico would claim neighbours and get lynched somehow, and i didnt want my townread to be lynched, since i didnt think we could communicate effectively and not get fastlynched with so little until end of day, and i didnt really think i'd be able to save him at the last second.
Not trying to buddy him, i said specifically to just claim neighbours if pressure mounted because my no 1 priority there was to avoid a ico mislynch first and foremost. I think i got pretty good reactions from the whole debacle as well. Menal and vox' responses arent too much to think about but datisi rubs me the wrong way near EoD. Cant really see a town motivation in doing something like what she did.

[Donempire]

Im still sticking with my menal read but im not going to focus much on him today, i have around 2 and maybe 3 candidates as his partner right now so i'll be more focused on narrowing that list down.

Bella, can you make an updated readslist? Doesnt need to have proof behind it, just wondering where you stand on things as of now.

[Donempire]

Town motivation in doing what I did, which is calling out obvious bullshit that really shouldn't get a pass but for some reason is getting one?

Dong, I thought you were ignoring my questions (after your responses to Mena had been getting worse, and funnily after you mocked him for saying that you were evading his questions), so I voted you. Then you claimed Masons, so I obviously unvoted.

Then

Icon said that you two are not Masons. You weren't willing to explain why you were claiming it, saying it's gonna be obvious when you flip. You self-vote. Get run up to L-1, still refuse to explain because it would complicate things. Is 515 the explanation? Because it doesn't seem that complex. Then you quickhammer Chemist? But you didn't know it was L-1, sure.

I'm just fucking done losing Town games from scum who spends the whole game doing the most anti-Town things imaginable for the Town to then go "haha personality yep they're

Town™

!" Maybe the part that annoyed me the most was this part of Klick's post:

Anti-town stuff comes with the meta these days. You either have to adjust your standards of play or make sure you're playing with people who won't be anti-town.

Like, dude, we were just in a game (Mini Normal 2095) where two slots who were arguably acting the most anti-Town like were the goddamn scumteam - LUV lurking the majority of the time, only to pop up every few days with word-salads of posts and making cases that were over 50 pages old, and A50/Gobble lurking the whole time as well, having "no SR's", claiming VT during mass, replacing out, the replacement

immediately counterclaiming itself and claiming N3 BG

, and nobody even blinked. (Except for Luca later, but he was blinded by LUV's bs, so eh.) Like, I've played like crap that game too, so I can't blame anyone for it (and I'm not trying to), but looking at the shit this game I'm getting the feeling that it's history repeating itself.

I do not see why I should be trusting Dong.
VOTE: Dong

I have never ignored your questions. There was one time i missed one, and you got butthurt over it and you keep shoving it in my face as some sort of proof im ignoring you. Im not. Dont fool yourself into thinking that.
Regarding chemist, i didnt know it was l1, but even if i did i would still go for a hammer because no one was switching to menalque. There was 15 hours remaining on the clock, and you are town for parking your vote and then staying afk and im scum for quickhammering? Sure.

If you dont trust me, thats fine. Thats the point of the game. I'm not going to convince you to trust me, because at this point you have to or you will be running around in circles.
Thing is, you've only really did stuff from the sidelines and while your content has been inoffensive for the most part, i have to say that upon closer inspection they dont appear to be to good. I'll make a post detailing my thought process on this.
And besides, i have something that will make me confirmed town at an instant. So im not worried about you pushing me for now. Push me to l-1 if you want to, just know that nothing will come out of it.

[Donempire]

I'm pretty sure its menal/datisi by this point, i am still townreading lockes slot and heaven is still a possibility but i havent put much thought into that.

Tchill played far more anti-town in that game than either LUV or the A50 slot, and he was bleeding town. I had to keep reminding myself that he wouldn't play the way he was playing as scum.

Regardless, Dong's explanation for his behavior is fucking terrible and I'm starting to question how many more fucks I give.

Ill probably feel a bit better about it tomorrow when I'm not a bit drunk though.

It is what it is. I didnt want ico to die and looks like i did the right thing so far. If he can get here we can steamroll with him.

Oh yeah, you said this in 473:

What my goal is with this post is hopefully persuade datisi and chemist to think things through.

Implying you thought I was Town? I hadn't even posted from then to now, why am I suddenly rubbing you the wrong way in 515?

Yup. I thought you were townier than them because i was dealing with too much stuff at that time and didnt really focus on what was currently happening. At night i got some time to reread through the thread and take notes.
Point is, im not so sure on heaven now. He seems indecided but he doesnt seem to have any ulterior motives. The slot itself is kind of in a weird spot but hes not my main priority. Its datisi and menal.

[Donempire]

And besides, i have something that will make me confirmed town at an instant. So im not worried about you pushing me for now. Push me to l-1 if you want to, just know that nothing will come out of it.

VOTE: Dongempire

Nah I'm sick of you withholding shit. You're going to show your cards now or get lynched.

Not my decision to make.
Just play my game, and i'll show you everything as their time comes
You're barking up the wrong tree, im town. I suggest you pressure the other people who are actually withholding worse stuff, like their alignment.

[Donempire]

20

[Donempire]

“I dIdN’t ReaLiSe hE wAs aT L-1”

Said every survivalistic scum quickhammer ever

What a cringy post

[Donempire]

I've been meaning to withhold to this information and just make a silent townbloc since this does risk bella dying... but then again i already have a strong enough townbloc of me ico and bella so i think we'll be fine.

Bella saved someone yesterday, with Protection specifically. Dont know who she saved, just got a result saying she used protection. Given how the setup is ambigious i dont see why the scum would even risk no killing, so im just assuming that whoever bella protected is town. Though i did try to see if she would claim it first since i already told it to ico but didnt want everyone knowing if she wanted to lie low. So much for that.

My full role is Town Neighbour Follower. Icos role pm is still unknown for me. I think i can safely make a townbloc of us three and klick, and then sorting out the rest of the town will be easy.

[Donempire]

Kind of weirded out by icos vote on bella however, i told him she protected someone in the pt.

[Donempire]

why does scum have to explicitly no-kill here mena? what does scum gain from doing so?
not only that, theres four other possibilities that ur just not looking at:
- theres a doctor, and they targeted whoever mafia was gonna kill
- theres a jailkeeper, and they targeted whoever mafia was gonna kill OR they targeted whichever mafia was preforming the kill
- theres a roleblocker, and they targeted whichever mafia was preforming the kill
- some combination thereof

Stop setup speccing with no information. This post gave us 0 information and is completely pointless. Play the game normally, there are a million other combinations you dont see and all are just as irrelevant because we dont know the roles.

[Donempire]

I guess that would be the correct play. Then again that would be a very banal play, dont you think? Its more interesting this way

Actually i think she protected iconeum, at least im getting some stuff that seems to hint that is the case. Regardless i dont want to say too much and just wait for bella to confirm it.

[Donempire]

I'm waiting for ico to discuss some things with him in the PT.

In the meantime i think a datisi/menal team is looking more and more likely. I've begun to townread vex a bit mostly because of POE but i think his posts are better than they were near the end of day, though i disagree with a lot of his reads. Even then i dont like him fence sitting on a lot of reads apart from mena so far into the day. I'll still probably flip onto him if datisi turns out to be town but seeing that is unlikely and also now that i have to read saudade again with locke replaced out i'm fine with putting him off the lynchingblock today.
Im also going to stop engaging with menal, because i dont think anything is going to come from that. I'll let him dig his own grave by arguing with other people and i'll leave him to be lynched last, so today i'll be trying to convince you why datisi is the second scum.

Spoiler:

For why i claimed masons, i thought ico would claim neighbours and get lynched somehow, and i didnt want my townread to be lynched, since i didnt think we could communicate effectively and not get fastlynched with so little until end of day, and i didnt really think i'd be able to save him at the last second.
Not trying to buddy him, i said specifically to just claim neighbours if pressure mounted because my no 1 priority there was to avoid a ico mislynch first and foremost. I think i got pretty good reactions from the whole debacle as well. Menal and vox' responses arent too much to think about but datisi rubs me the wrong way near EoD. Cant really see a town motivation in doing something like what she did.

Im still sticking with my menal read but im not going to focus much on him today, i have around 2 and maybe 3 candidates as his partner right now so i'll be more focused on narrowing that list down.

Bella, can you make an updated readslist? Doesnt need to have proof behind it, just wondering where you stand on things as of now.

thats still a very shitty reason to just flat-out claim masons imo. it kinda makes sense the more i think about it, but its still a shitty reason to claim masons.

We are neighbours and i had good reason to believe he was town, though its hard to solidify without directly quoting posts from the PT. I still think his early game is shining though and i'd redirect you there to show you why hes town.
Besides that i didnt want to risk a lolhammer on ico, or even a normal hammer if the neighbour claim wasnt believed. I knew i could shake off the heat but i didnt want to risk it for ico so thats what it is. I ascertain that what i did wasnt anti town however, lynching ico for being afk would have been and while im not happy we had to compromise on a chemist lynch i think the outcome is better than if we had lynched ico.

Anyway, i think i'm done defending the masons claim. I think i did a good enough job conveying what i did and why, so lets move on from that.
Vex, give me a readslist pronto. No nulls, if you think someone is null just put them on the closest alignment you feel they are as if you are completely committed to that. I need to analyze your mindset a bit.

[Donempire]

Hilariously, yes, it was ico.

Nice!
Oh and sorry for forcing you to claim... its my bad, i inputted the night action at the last moment too and was kind of confused for a bit... But we have a 4 player townbloc now. I think we can salvage the game from that.

[Donempire]

This is where we stand right now:
We have three confirmed town:

Dongempire, Bellaphant and Iconeum.

There is a microscopic chance that the ico save was false and scum just nokilled, but its not a matter of discussion when the roles are this ambigious. Besides, me and bella are confirmed anyway you look at it.

Klick is a very strong townread.

He isnt completely confirmed but he may as well be. I wont lynch in these 4 today.

So that only leaves menal, datisi and vex and saudade.
I havent heard many a convincing argument against locke, and i liked his posting so far. I probably wont compromise on him today.
Vex is looking townier with his latest posts and i'm looking to talk with him a little bit about the game, so hes not my priority either, but i can understand if someone would make an argument against him.
So thats only datisi and menal. Both of them are incredibly scummy compared to everyone else. I've explained my thoughts on menal, but since that wagon hasnt gone anywhere, i'll be trying to convince you on datisi today. Not now, gotta take a break from the game but probably tonight.

[Donempire]

“I dIdN’t ReaLiSe hE wAs aT L-1”

Said every survivalistic scum quickhammer ever

What a cringy post

wHaT a CrInGy pOsT

what a cringy response

[Donempire]

Klick is very town

brave

[Donempire]

Most likely situation here is that dong is a scum follower or rolecop (which would explain why he’s so set on it being vanilla protective)

Nope, its because the mod literally said "bella used a protection" with nothing else. If i was a rolecop i'd be more insistent on her role. If i was a rolecop i wouldnt even bother with revealing her role and just kill her at night, now she ended up confirming two people.
The ignorance you display for good play is asinine.

[Donempire]

I’m taking a break from the thread briefly

Ftr I hate that I’m just being asked to leave alone my top scumread while he continues to shade me and to push for the lynch of the person who I think is least likely to flip scum outside of actual p much conf!town

Oh, dont. As i said, you're just digging your own grave at this point. I know that you see yourself as galileo and us as the church, but truth is in this game the sun does revolve around the earth.

[Donempire]

Most likely situation here is that dong is a scum follower or rolecop (which would explain why he’s so set on it being vanilla protective)

Nope, its because the mod literally said "bella used a protection" with nothing else. If i was a rolecop i'd be more insistent on her role. If i was a rolecop i wouldnt even bother with revealing her role and just kill her at night, now she ended up confirming two people.
The ignorance you display for good play is asinine.

Well no, because your play today is a pretty obvious example of why you’d not do that and you’d go down the route of insisting that the way to play today is to lynch my strongest supporter who you’re unsure of over someone you think is obvscum

Which then let’s you push the argument tomorrow “oh, I was wrong on dats, guess we’d better do mena today to be safe”

Not lynching the most obvious scum candidate fypov is scum play

I was literally in a game where scum won because they encouraged that line of thinking and then town voted for me as the person they thought was the second most likely scum when we had someone literally openwolfing

Whos my partner?

[Donempire]

“I dIdN’t ReaLiSe hE wAs aT L-1”

Said every survivalistic scum quickhammer ever

What a cringy post

wHaT a CrInGy pOsT

what a cringy response

wHaT a CrInGy rEsPoNSe

Some days i wonder if your site joindate is your birthday.

[Donempire]

Donge you didnt answer me yet about the klicks read

...why should i? I've been telling everyone klicks my top townread since ever
I said brave because as far as im concerned klick is everyones top townread here.

[Donempire]

sorry thought you'd caught up with the thread.

[Donempire]

İ'll go first. İm masons with klick.

[Donempire]

İ'll go first. İm masons with klick.

is this a joke claim

Yes it is.

You know, i feel like i should ne lynched just so menal can sleep without anger. Of course he'll still try to say i played bad and thats why i was lynched and not that his read and general manners are garbage, but thats the best we can do.

By the way, what do you think about my Galileo comment? O thought i was spot on

[Donempire]

What mechanics conf town Bella

The fact that dong is claiming a protective and she confirmed it and having targeted icon who didn’t die last night

I highly doubt scum gambit there

Im not claiming a protective

[Donempire]

Menalque, what motivation does scum!Dong have to say anything at all about the info he got about Bella today?

PEdit: You're really not reading the room. You're not getting lynched today. And even if you did and you flipped town, Dong wouldn't get lynched tomorrow.

Literally exactly the way he’s played it. He’s gonna go for the one other person who’s calling him scum (who I’m p sure he hasn’t actually done dick to case btw, just said “oh I didn’t like her EoD”), then tomorrow he’ll revert to “I’m pretty sure mena’s scum and as it’s mylo we should lynch there”)

Why do you think there’s clearly such a strong motivation for him to not reveal it and just NK her tomorrow?

This hasn't really addressed my question at all. Why does he claim anything about any info he got on Bella? All it does is confirm Bella as town (unless she's Dong's partner). I don't see any scum motivation in it.

I made the post, thats the scum motivation

[Donempire]

Menal i'd like you to talk about game events more and cry less, i cant make a case on you with your tears alone

[Donempire]

Technically Dong isn't clear. He's claimed Follower, but there's nothing confirming him.

He's town though so that's a fine assumption

Unless there's a 3rd PR claim I think a doc+follower is a reasonable town pr set

I think ico also has a night action of sorts. He alluded to it in the pt but i'll ask hım when he comes.

[Donempire]

why are you bragging about your age of empires elo on a forum dedicated to mafia

Its not my real elo. It is the elo i deserve but my real elo is sadly only 1780 because of societys demand for lower elo to even ve able to find a match. Now yuo see...

[Donempire]

Indeed. I even got an anime avatar for that express purpose

[Donempire]

I actually dont disagree with that mindset. When looking at this occurence in a vacuum me claiming bellas role doesnt confirm my alignment at all.
Yet if i were scum i wouldnt have risked my head to save ico only to target hım at night, i either pocket hım with a mason claim or straight up let hım die.
I dont wait for Bella to claim her role and instead pounce on the first possibility to out the night report,
So dont tunnel yourself inti thinking about just one thing, i did all three of these and scum!me just doesnt do all three.

[Donempire]

That was to 656

[Donempire]

forgive me asking... is sauce supposed to be saudade?

[Donempire]

i thought about it some more:
if ico can't be scum here, then the team has to be: {klick, saude} with dong potentially being scum instead of klick.
if its not that, then i seriously need to re-evaluate the entire game.

also, ill get started on the saude case tomorrow.

wtf

[Donempire]

VOTE: Datisi
Not likely. The crumb sets up a nice claim but im not seeing how a game with 4 Town Prs is balanced.
Leaving that aside, what does a neighbor enabler do? Whos your neighbor?

[Donempire]

ico, what has saude done to solve the game so far? they've just sat around and posted jackshit. it's one of the major reasons i havent bothered with the case yet because their playstyle is so obviously scummy yet everyone is acting like they're confirmed.

Its nai. With so many obvscum around and you also havent even given a proper case on him

[Donempire]

Like, you've said before that you don't get why dong would play around you specifically, but I think it makes quite a lot of sense if you look at dong's play overall. Goes after getting a TR from you D1 and plans to lock that in by killing you, then after you get saved and become conf!town pushes for someone who isn't their biggest SR (!) by going after dats -- incidentally, why do you think the push dong made today is in good faith if you're TRing dats? Then tomorrow they've got you pocketed to take their pick of who they wanna push tomorrow between me/klick/VV (prob me and working on the basis that saud is the more likely partner). So they only need to convince 1 of klick (maybe saud)/VV to vote for me along with you and get a quickhammer off for the win

Lets say that i did all of these. In that same night i "rolecop" (not even what i claimed) bella, also try to kill ico, who im trying to pocket, then instead of shutting up about it and killing Bella at night i make a ruckus, and tell ico my night result in the neighbourhood without anyone asking me in the thread.
Why?
If im pocketing hım i dont try to kill hım,
I never claim masons while ico iş getting lynched because chemist is already an easy mislynch for tomorrow,
I dont confirm both myself, ico and Bella with my night action.
I dont do anything you say that would make sense as scum.

[Donempire]

I saw what you posted menal. No need to requote it.

I assume at this point that scum definitely have a pr. Its not doc because scumdoc is useless and i know im Town. I assume that ıts something strong like a rolecop or escort since we have two town prs and i believe your claim so i doubt you're scum. That leaves Datisi to be the scum pr to claim.
Now there is a problem in that a lightkeeper role like she claimed is just as stupid of a scum pr as doc is. I think she fakeclaimed a role like that to discourage us both specifically from voting her.
That said maybe the scum pr just havent claimed and im grasping. Problem is this only leaves menal and heaven to be scum and im getting town vibes as of Kate. İll think about the crumb for a bit, but i will definitely consider her as a possible lynch

[Donempire]

Your claim was meant to address ico, i wrote this 2 hours before and i didnt revise it

[Donempire]

UNVOTE:

This was in response to me claiming masons with ico. If you were neighbour enabler like you said, why did you unvote here? You'd either know i was lying since you know there is a neighbourhood or just be vary about the claim, instead of just unvoting.

[Donempire]

VOTE: Datisi
Not likely. The crumb sets up a nice claim but im not seeing how a game with 4 Town Prs is balanced.
Leaving that aside, what does a neighbor enabler do? Whos your neighbor?

Why do you think out of all the 4 PRs its Datisi who is fake?

I know that bella and i are both prs and town,
And i trust icos claim, think he is town and dont see a reason for scum to have a whisperer.
As i said i dont see a reason for scum to have a enabler either but im still thinking about it.

[Donempire]

sure, what is the way

[Donempire]

Menalque/vex

I was thinking datisi but ıts seeming more and more unlikely solo

VOTE: Menal

[Donempire]

L1 ico, announce these damn things

[Donempire]

And i trust icos claim, think he is town and dont see a reason for scum to have a whisperer.
As i said i dont see a reason for scum to have a enabler either but im still thinking about it.

why the assumption that scum PR is gonna claim PR - especially the one they are?

I guess it is because its a closed setup and claiming a pr would theoretically give scum a better chance at winning? Also scum would be able to back it up with crumbs/night reports if they claim their real role. Maybe im thinking too much into this however. UNVOTE:
Im not lynching you , i was hasty with the read. Its probably menal/vex anyway. Saudade im not seeing still.

PROXY: Ico

You should now have 2 votes including mine so go nuts

[Donempire]

Fuck it

[Donempire]

Heres the plan: we abandon both vex and saudade wagons, give saud more time to play the game as i was townreading locke spot, i make a case on menalque, we close the book on that chapter. Townbloc, what are your thoughts?

[Donempire]

Come on klick pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase

[Donempire]

Lets go through this one by one, i'll start with 441 and end at where he stops suspecting me to make my case:

Spoiler:

I mean I'm about to have dinner but if town is so deep into the too scummy to be scum wormhole then I guess lynch me so long as dong never ever ever lives past tomorrow

I, however, am not way too deep up the too scummy to be scum wormhole, so I'd rather just lynch scum today

VOTE: dong

he literally claimed masons only to have that outright counterclaimed

then he self-voted, which again, why does town do that here?

The classic "lynch me but lynch this guy tomorrow" ultimatum. I dont need to point out that this only comes from scum unless the guy saying that has already claimed and is getting lynched. Reason being that this makes it seem as though they are risking something by saying they arent afraid of a lynch. Menal is pretty much the golden boy for this kind of behaviour, almost all of his posts after my mason claim include some sort of "lynch me idc town sux" even though he is under flak by no one besides me and possibly ico.
And the self vote is pretty obviously a martyr play to let ico live another day which i gave up on when i realized i can probably make better use of a follower pm.

Spoiler:

Take a step back for a second and tell me how many times out of 100 you expect Dong to flip scum if we lynch him today.

Because I'd say 1, maaaaybe 2.

plus dong selfvoted and left a cryptic message saying once they flip, well see why they claimed masons

this is a good reason for why the number is probably closer to 75 there

dong is just scum who knows that getting lynched D1 is almost certainly losing for scum so he's made up a bullshit claim in the hopes that icon would back it in self-preservation as he made it when icon was looking like he might be lynched. this prob does make icon town though, as I think scum just backs the lie that they're both masons once dong has committed them to that

Kind of a nitpick and i dont know menals style so idk about this but i think someone who is this deadset on me being scum would go for a higher number than 75 here. Every post he makes i get lower on his readslist yet he doesnt call me 100 scum.

I've talked about my claim and the situation a lot and im making a case against menal, not defending myself so moving on.

Spoiler:

@Bella here is the rough bullet point version:

- dong instantly starts trying to discredit me the moment I put a vote on him
- dong consistently avoids actually engaging with content while making excuses about how it's filled with traps for him should he try to engage
- dong also claims that my content is void, and refuses to even point out the various obvious traps that are mentioned
- dong regularly misreps me throughout the thread by leaving out context
- dong lies about being a mason with icon
- dong self votes
- dong LIED ABOUT BEING A MASON WITH ICON
- dong makes some bullshit argument about how he should be let live until tomorrow because iMpOrtAnT rOle StUFf
- dong again, outright lies by saying that I didn't explain my chem progression
- DONG LIED ABOUT BEING A MASON

at the very best, his play is anti-town because he's straight up lied more than once in thread. at the far more probable worst, he's scum who is deliberately lying to both try and avoid being lynched and to set the mislynch on me because it's p much the only option he has here now

if you think all that comes from town then okay I'm just done with this game

but will keep trying because, again, dong is scum and if we lynch him this game is borderline won for town

See one point that ruffles my feathers is that menal puts questionable, gambit play and instantly tosses them into "anti-town" bin, even though my supposedly "anti-town" play just earned us 3 confirmed town today.

Also going back to me trying to discredit you, how about this?

Still, rewrite your fucking post. If you're not doing it im assuming that you dont want me to read you properly, and if thats the case i'll rip into its every single contradiction. Also you would then be accusing me of the same stubbornness you display.

Now going back and reading it it does seem a little pretentious, wasnt my intention, but still you were the one accusing me of shading you and being scum long before i even made a case against you. And even then when i saw your case i wanted you to make a new one because the one you made didnt even push me hard enough. It was just a slight poke and i wanted to see if you were actually sold on your scumread on me. Clearly you werent as you resorted to a defensive manner of talking later.

In fact if i had to make a timeline of your playstyle reaction to me:
You started with a small case in 179 that i then challenged you to remake
You refused it and went into a defensive mode, went on to form a solid read on me without actually saying much about my play,
After i posted my response to your post you ignored that and went on a full on tunnel as did i,
And as my mason claim came it apparently "made sense" i would play like this as mason, yet when i retracted the claim i was instantly scum? Still didnt explain your reasoning on this thought process either.
After this came appealing to emotion a lot with posts like

Spoiler:

Friendly neighbourhood reminderman that anti-town play is scum play

If y’all don’t wanna lynch obvscum I can’t help you

where you didnt say a lot of stuff except just say i was "confirmed scum"
And then came the complete 180 where you arent suspecting me anymore?
This is a really bumpy relationship. Im afraid i cant continue with this. This is my fault, not yours. You deserve better than me.

Also one thing to note is that most of the stuff you say i do are things i have accused you of doing before you wrote this, namely misrepping me which you have done by completely ignoring several posts and ignoring most posts context. And unlike you i actually provide quotes to back this up, i believe that doing stuff on the fly and not giving any evidence for it because "its self evident" makes a case very weak as if it was self evident there would be no need for a case anyway. Therefore it is scummy to just say things and not provide ample quotes because not only does it make your case weaker and therefore you wont have to worry about too much flak you wont be able to be pressured on certain quotes as you have done with 442 where i made a mistake and thought you flipped on your chemist read. You wouldnt be able to refute that if i hadnt provided quotes like you havent been doing all game.

Thats the main difference between you misrepping and me misrepping. I havent misrepped you on purpose but when i accidentally did it you were able to point them out because i have been providing quotes to back up my line of thinking so if there is something wrong with what im thinking its obvious in what i provided. Thats what town should do, make an understandable case so people can point out the flaws and move on from there.

Your posts in contrast have minimal quotes referenced if any, you havent responded to most of my posts though its too late for it now. Most of them rely on just trying to destroy one point i made and then declare victory, 296 comes to mind as you said "dong scum" because i had a different line of thinking than you. Town would try to analyze why scum would make that kind of thinking and engage if it didnt make sense to them, and vote if they were certain it had a scummy agenda. Scum condition themselves to see it as scummy because of a possibly flawed line of thinking and dont try to rationalize the one posting it. You fall into the latter category.

Contrary to what you said, i never called your posts void. I said that they were filled with traps, yes, and i stand by that. I never said they were devoid of content however, just bad content that i didnt want to waste my time with because my read wouldnt change and nor would anyone elses at that time so i postponed it and i probably wont respond to them ever at this point.

Considering that half your points are me fakeclaiming masons and now you have realized that it doesnt make sense for me to risk myself to save ico, i think thats about all im going to respond to for this post.

Spoiler:

If you’re not gonna vote dong then go ahead and fucking vote me because I’m not backing off it at this point

Then after I flip green you can keep your shitty TR on him because he’s just a certain type of player with a “specific personality type” and go ahead and lose the game

Let’s totally ignore that I’ve got scum right D1 on like 4/5 of my most recent towngames but because I’m not the best at explaining people don’t fucking listen to me. And I tried to adjust for that this game based on feedback from other games but apparently trying to actually explain things doesn’t count for jackshit in this game. Even in the game where I didn’t push scum D1 I was on him early because that’s the game where I talked myself off korina onto mislynch bait

Do you want the others? Got scum skitt + epic creeper D1 in 1951/53 whatever it was

Got pine scum D1 in added to the group chat

Got icon scum D1 in purge

And in my first mini normal (can’t remember the number) I got luv scum on D1

I think I’m missing pfup as it’s my first large game, and obv I’ve missed my scum game but my point is my reads are actually pretty fucking good and constantly get ignored because of a mixture of not really being great at the persuasion part of the game and not having a strong enough reputation to just get sheeped on shit

Again, more AtE saying that you're always right so you should be trusted on me read or you may as well die. Town would bite the bullet here and start making associations, instead of trying to get the moral high ground every chance they get.

Think thats about all i got so far, i would make some more but tomorrow i probably will expand on this

[Donempire]

Are we going the reaction gif route now :8

I thought it became uncool when ico started spamming it ( no offense)

[Donempire]

VOTE: Menal

[Donempire]

Same old,same old.
VOTE: Menalque

[Donempire]

Yeah this is a worst case scenario, that hammer was stupendous.
The neighbour soft is whats throwing me off. İ'd normally all ve for riling on Datisi now but i dont see that claim happening as non pr. That means we only have to know if she is scum pr or town pr. Honestly i dont know how we do that.
Honestly im convinced town can have this much pr since we dont know the setup and that gives town a disadvantage. So Datisi is probably town.
With that that leaves three people: you, vex, klick. İm not lynching klick yet. Feel free to offer counterarguments

[Donempire]

Why do you think I’m scum over vex? Like you’re so close to what I think is prob the solve but you just can’t see that I’m town because you still haven’t got over fighting with me for all of D1

I think you both have equal scum equity. Vex's actions make sense under scum!you and your actions make sense under scum!vex.
Truth is i dont really mind either way. I have been directly engaging with you a lot more so im süre you're scum whereas while im certain on vex now, i did have my doubts a few times before. I wouldnt object flipping to vex here because i think ıts solved.

[Donempire]

Vex no visit

[Donempire]

Follower does the same thing as tracker, just under a different name.

@Datisi, i meant today. I was hesitant on vex yesterday because their posts seemed townish and i was leaning more into menal/you. Klick/menal is a weird associative and the only reason i might even consider it is that menal has been protected constantly by klick. I'll gather my thoughts and post in a while.
In the meantime, my menal post has gone unnoticed mostly. Im hoping its because it was flawed rather than intentionally ignored. If so, what are everybodys thoughts on that?

[Donempire]

Im not tunneled on you, i think you're irreddeamably scum but i have decided on that after reading so many of your posts. Trust me, i do not view them in a bad light.

[Donempire]

By that i mean i dont go in expecting to find you acting scummy. I go in trying to determine you and it always ends up on the same conclusion.

Truthfully i was tunnelled on you D1 but i've been analyzing your posts more carefully. I think while not as bad as i initally took them as i still dont like them. I'd at least want you to respond if you want me to change my mind.

[Donempire]

Klick, you wouldnt mind pocketing my vote, right? Too many a time we got a mislynch through because of split wagons and time constraints so i need some backup vote with me. I assure you i'll listen to what you have to say but i need cohesion in my wagons so it doesnt get counterwagoned and quicklynched.
Pedit: i'll respond to that

[Donempire]

Dont really see menals reaction here as having a scum mindset

Though with everything else we have on the table im not liable to cross him off the list just because of this.

[Donempire]

@VV if you’re around still tell me why it’s klick/dats not you

I liked your entrance but now I’m kinda worried you just decided to sheep me/pocket me bc it would be in such stark contrast to last game

I’m making this read partly on the basis of

reasons

and cant say more about that specifically

Dont like this post however,
Why would vex want to paint a picture of klick/dats when from town!vex pov you would be the more likely candidate for klicks partner?
I dont see him ever mentioning a scumread on datisi either

[Donempire]

Okay, you dont need to notify us about everything, its just us two online anyway

[Donempire]

Dong, how confident are you on Menalque actually? Because I thought the answer to that was 'really confident' but the last page has me doubting that.

Very confident still. I dont doubt that theres scum there. Im just waiting on him to say whatever else he has to say atm

[Donempire]

Read klicks post and i dont have a rebuttal to make against it. Though im confused as to what the general consensus was at the end. Even though you seem to agree with some of the points you say you arent persuaded by that which im a bit confused about. I know that its a cut down version of my post and you didnt agree with some stuff you didnt bother responding with but im still curious about your own reasons regarding mena because they arent standing out to me.

[Donempire]

The thing that has me questioning my previous townread on you most (besides Saudade flipping town) is actually something that I think you'd relate to - I felt like your near-obsessive tunneling on Dong in the first Day-and-a-half was anti-town. You've been pushing that slot to the detriment of paying attention to other slots. Any time you did give other slots the time of day, it was through the lens of whether or not they were scum with Dong (when I asked you why Datisi was town yesterday -outside of your read on Dong-, you did initially straight-up tell me that your primary motivator was Dong being scum and Datisi not making sense with Dong).
Tbh even if Dong was scum here, I feel as though an extremely narrow tunnel on him would be slightly anti-town because of how limiting it was to discussion.

And normally I wouldn't really see that as super scummy. But when my options have dwindled to you/Vex/Datisi, and you yourself have said that anti-town behavior should be treated as scummy yet you've been consistently anti-town, it starts to make me wonder if you did it on purpose.

PEdit: getting food, will respond later

Yeah, I mean that’s fair. That was a bad play of mine and I get why people can SR me for it. I’m a believer in the ABR school of thought on catching scum, as that was one of the first articles I read on the wiki and it’s something I’ve tried to emulate since then.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... em_Lynched

It’s something I’m reconsidering in my game because as I’ve already mentioned the getting people to follow me on stuff bit is actually one of my weak spots. And now that I’m thinking about the game more from a holistic pov I do think that dats/vex makes more and more sense. They’ve both consistently sheeped me throughout the game, which would make perfect sense knowing I was wrong. Let me lead the lynch, then let me take the fall for it.

I was thinking that their behaviour was pro-town bc they were the only ones looking at scummy behaviour the same way I was. But that makes sense from scum who see it as a chance to follow me on a push, then justify it by saying “yeah but the behaviour looked scummy and it was mena who forced it through”

Yeah i now see why you have this tunnelling mentality.

This is very old and there have been numerous better working strategies on finding scum but even pushing those aside ABR's tactic doesnt really work.
The article itself pushes an antitown agenda of not working with the town you're supposed to be teamed up with. Sure, some of them are scum but you're not supposed to be taking everything they say at their word anyway, you're supposed to be listening to them and forming your own conclusions by what everybody says. If you follow what he says then you will be unintentionally or intentionally isolating yourself from other town members.

That wont help your credibility.

After all, how can you lynch scum if no one believes you because you constantly ignore them and go off on your own deal?

And the first point sucks too. Its why i avoided your posts 291-297. If you set up traps,

anyone

who responds to them will fail, not just scum. If you're scum this is a perfect guide for you to mislynch someone and thats why i was so certain on you being scum but i didnt take into account you'd be following a very flawed game guide...

Truth is if you follow this you'll play a very antisocial game where you just go after one person, scum or not, and that will be your detriment. You should be willing to exchange targets and keep scum on their toes at all times. Because you were busy attacking me scum didnt have to come under the limelight.

Gonna reread your posts with this in mind.

[Donempire]

I'd like to post but im gonna post tomorrow, a bit too tired to reread all of mena

It'd be fine if everyone could give their definitive scum pairing, i most certainly have to since im going down tonight but i also think this will help in scumhunting since you have to take both scum into consideration when pairing them.

[Donempire]

Is it national pirate day for europeans? Whats with menal and icos profile photos

[Donempire]

It was a game of shitty instant wagons so it makes sense it ends like this.
I wish i was scum follower now, wouldve made for one legendary game
I still dont know why thered be a scum neighbour enabler but oh well

[Donempire]

That scumchat looks nice, icon didnt talk as often as you guys did

Even tho we won would appreciate feedback from people

The same stuff i said about the ABR deal, but i think it works better when you're scum so you might want to stick to it as scum

Yeah, I know I said I was gonna redact some stuff, but I'll be surprised if anyone reads that PT anyway.

It looks fun now, so maybe i'll finish it

[Donempire]

I think i botched it with the last track, i had to follow either datisi or klick and i went with vex instead like the dum dum i am
I'm definitely not good playing prs.

Since the games over, i'll admit i forgot i was follower for a good while. I remembered myself as being neighbour and that was it. I apparently read and confirmed it but then i forgot all about it. Went back to check if i had a night action when icon asked, otherwise this would have been a pretty different game :S

[Donempire]

I think it’ll work less and less well as scum the further away my towngame moves from that

I’ll still push people, but I’ll try to tunnel them less. Thanks for the feedback:)

Yeah, I’m kinda surprised you didn’t track me? I did the Bella kill bc we thought datisi had the best odds of winning in 4p mylo if we didn’t win 6p mylo and we thought you were definitely gonna keep pushing me no matter what

We were so paranoid about you having a guilty on me and deliberately playing it off to try and get associatives haha

I was so sure on you being scum that i didnt even think you would be making the kill so i tried to at least remove the doubt from one of the top lynch targets, you can see how well i did that at the last page.

My plan was to just lynch you today and make a definite case on the last scum partner anyway, the hammer came out of nowhere. I didnt even want vex lynched today tbh

[Donempire]

...we spent probably at least 5 pages going back and forth on whether you are the real Follower or if you're claiming Follower to eat the nightkill away from Icon

Damn it, now i feel like i should have done this instead. I went with the most balls to the wall play day 1 and didnt bullshit further into the game, so this is a great shame. I wouldnt mind if i can have you two co counseling me in my future games

[Donempire]

I meant to say:
tell ico to claim folllower to eat the nightkill away from me, kind of went off on my own thoughts without explaining

[Donempire]

My plan was to just lynch you today and make a definite case on the last scum partner anyway, the hammer came out of nowhere. I didnt even want vex lynched today tbh

Yeah, I was really worried about this, that's why I started absolutely losing my shit in the PT when I realized Vex is in the quickhammer-range

Btw, if anyone's got any feedback for me, I'd appreciate it. I still feel like a headless chicken half the time I'm playing.

I actually remember bits of the case i was going to make on you before you claimed neighbor enabler, so i can finish that if you say you'll read it. I threw that in the bin because of the pr claim and just bit my tongue for the meantime.

[Donempire]

Alright then, its pretty late for me right now but i will get it out by tomorrow.

[Donempire]

There's a huge rush you must do this ASAP or the geopolitical ramifications will be massive

I just didnt want to make a false promise mister

I will provide feedback when I get the chance

If any townies are interested in feedback lmk

How can you give feedback if you hafent read the game? :thonk:

Give me some