Large Normal 211: Scientific Mafia

[Inferno390]

Can we not lynch two.

Also, Inferno replied to my comment in the neighborhood about that, so his post there is suspect. Regardless, I still want either LUV slot or Beef, but Mulch said Beef is town.

I see 2iam as town. :shrug:

Suspect? What have I done that's suspect?

[Flavor Leaf]

I could see Mulch doing that as a ploy, tbh to get me able to be night killed.

:shrug: I’m town reading Mulch, though, but would be some nice scum pla.

What ploy

Tinfoil theory of you hard hard town reading me, then getting town cred by killing me off.

I don’t necessarily think it’s happening, as I sincerely town read you, but the longer the game goes the more I’ll lock it in. I’ll see if my tinfoil is just that: a theory.

@infern - the thing I talked about earlier. You’re fine, though, I’m not pushing that or even using it as any sort of AI thing. Just something to remember if you flipped scum, specifically encryptor.

[Gamma Emerald]

I could see Mulch doing that as a ploy, tbh to get me able to be night killed.

:shrug: I’m town reading Mulch, though, but would be some nice scum pla.

What ploy

Tinfoil theory of you hard hard town reading me, then getting town cred by killing me off.

I don’t necessarily think it’s happening, as I sincerely town read you, but the longer the game goes the more I’ll lock it in. I’ll see if my tinfoil is just that: a theory.

@infern - the thing I talked about earlier. You’re fine, though, I’m not pushing that or even using it as any sort of AI thing. Just something to remember if you flipped scum, specifically encryptor.

idg what towncred that nets mulch

[Inferno390]

I could see Mulch doing that as a ploy, tbh to get me able to be night killed.

:shrug: I’m town reading Mulch, though, but would be some nice scum pla.

What ploy

Tinfoil theory of you hard hard town reading me, then getting town cred by killing me off.

I don’t necessarily think it’s happening, as I sincerely town read you, but the longer the game goes the more I’ll lock it in. I’ll see if my tinfoil is just that: a theory.

@infern - the thing I talked about earlier. You’re fine, though, I’m not pushing that or even using it as any sort of AI thing. Just something to remember if you flipped scum, specifically encryptor.

What thing? And you really think the encryptor would be in the neighborhood?

[Gamma Emerald]

mafia neighbor encryptor seems within the bounds of normal, neighbor is a modifier so it can have a role as well

[Ausuka]

what, and you can't fake a tunnel as scum?

So you're tellling me that on my first scum game ever, I'm good enough to replicate my towngame accurately enough that people notice that it's tunnely?

Why are you acting like tunnels are something that scum cannot do? It's like the easiest thing. All you have to do is pick one player and scumread them constantly.

And this proves nothing. You've literally just turned your argument into NAI. If tunnely town is my meta and I can fake it this well as scum, that means I can do it as either alignment, which means you can get nothing from it in terms of reading me.

No that's not what I'm saying at all. You're tunnely as either alignment, sure. What I'm saying is that I think you're scum, who is doing tunnels to try and look like tunnely town.

1) Of course it's something scum can do. But it's also something town can do. and it's something I do all the time as town. But you think I'm so good at being scum (despite the fact that this would be my first game ever as scum) that I can accurately mimic my town game in a game full of people I've played with before recently and get people commenting on my play about how it resembles my town game from previous games?

2) But if I'm tunnely as either alignment, how can you say anything about my alignment based on my tunneling?
See? NAI.

I feel like I've been sideswiped by scum!Ausuka becasue I've been on TIAM as scum, and she's calling my tunnel "scummy" to try and get me to back off/draw my attention away.

1) Yeah, and what I'm saying is that it feels like you're scum doing tunnels to look like town. I'm not familiar with your towngame, but if your towngame is getting into tunnels, that isn't exactly a difficult meta to replicate. In general, if you want to replicate your meta, it's fairly easy to do.

2) because it feels like you're scum doing tunnels to look like tunnely town. the act of you doing tunnels is not the AI thing.

3) no

[Ausuka]

Yeah, I'd rather not.

@MOD, I am replacing out

Didn't know you were in this game when I joined.

so people were pushing Quick as scum for this? Really?

You're not really this thick, right?

oh so I've been in this game for one day and you're already personally attacking me. beautiful.

Well, to be honest, you are bluntly avoiding the whole point of why that wagon formed.

I was told by FL this was why people are scumreading Quick, and I had literally just replaced in. Personal attacks are not cool, especially when I never did anything wrong.

[Ausuka]

Wanna cook an egg?

VOTE: egg

I'm only on page 15 rn but I don't feel like egg has been that scummy.

[Ausuka]

28] Scum teams do not have day talk.

Scummy
Almost a scumslip

I don’t think town look to check there

VOTE: nosferatu

This doesn't make much sense to me.

So Inferno made a comment in the neighborhood stating “do you think theinteractions with me/Ausuka and me/Twoinamillion are weird?”

Seems like it could have been meant for a scum pt.

Usually I don't like scumslips as tells but this might actually be one. It's possible he's town and wants to know if anyone thinks either are SvS but meh. Probably not worth lynching for but I'll take it into account.

I liked LUV and Quicks reason to replace out is maybe understandable
but 2iam opportunistically jumped to their wagon and said "its golden"

VOTE: twoinamillion

why are you making ti about LUV

Making what?

Scum:
2iam
Inferno
Arch
Nos
maybe Mulch
maybe Gamma

Do you think 2iam is scum with inferno? Why?

yeah I think RF is town this game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Usually I don't like scumslips as tells but this might actually be one. It's possible he's town and wants to know if anyone thinks either are SvS but meh. Probably not worth lynching for but I'll take it into account.

lmao you just fucked up big time
you don't comment at all on me saying Quick's proposal to policy Flavor in our hood could be a slip but you nudge Inferno's possible slip? Thanks for tying yourself to Quick.
Upon Quick scumflip this dies 110%

[Ausuka]

Usually I don't like scumslips as tells but this might actually be one. It's possible he's town and wants to know if anyone thinks either are SvS but meh. Probably not worth lynching for but I'll take it into account.

lmao you just fucked up big time
you don't comment at all on me saying Quick's proposal to policy Flavor in our hood could be a slip but you nudge Inferno's possible slip? Thanks for tying yourself to Quick.
Upon Quick scumflip this dies 110%

i've literally already commented on it. go away.

[Ausuka]

Yeah, and he said he didn't know FL was in the game before he replaced in. I don't see the inconsistency here at all. If he found out that FL is in this game after he joined the game/replaced in, and before he made that post, there is absolute consistency.

and yet he said he wanted to policy flavor before he had that realization

I don't get your point. What I think is that Quick joined the game not knowing FL was in it, realised FL was in it, tried to deal with him/policy lynch him/whatever, and then he got fed up and just decided to replace out. All Quick said in that post was that he didn't realise FL was in the game when he replaced in and I don't really think you can disprove that at all. Unless you're saying that he said explicitly in the neighbourhood "Let's policy lynch FL" and then said afterwards "I only just realised FL was in this game."

like, what do you think this is.

[Gamma Emerald]

ok I got that wrong but there's still the issue of you pushing that one but not Quick
I stand by what I said earlier, Quick scumflip necessitates an Ausuka lynch

[Ausuka]

ok I got that wrong but there's still the issue of you pushing that one but not Quick
I stand by what I said earlier, Quick scumflip necessitates an Ausuka lynch

that's because I don't think quick scumslipped, which you would know if you were actually evaluating the game instead of looking for things to push.

[Gamma Emerald]

How is "what do you think of these interactions" not on the same level as "I'm thinking of policy lynching Flavor"?

[Ausuka]

How is "what do you think of these interactions" not on the same level as "I'm thinking of policy lynching Flavor"?

first one sounds like asking a buddy if they think an interaction looks scummy. second one is literally just saying you want to policy lynch someone, and LQ replaced out because he didn't like playing with flavor, so I don't see why a PL is an impossible thing to suggest. no reason that's a scumslip. to be fair Inferno's probably wasn't a scumslip either thinking about it again but whatever.

[Gamma Emerald]

lol damage is done bro
the way they said it so matter-of-factly like it was already planned out sounded like a post scum would make like "hey I'm gonna push this PL so just be ready"

[Ausuka]

lol damage is done bro
the way they said it so matter-of-factly like it was already planned out sounded like a post scum would make like "hey I'm gonna push this PL so just be ready"

what. that is not a scumslip at all. that's just someone talking in a certain way.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: mordin solus

anyway, I think it's time to bus my buddy. yay.

[Nictis]

Catching up now, p. 43.

Flavor Leaf thinks anyone's reasons for voting him are bad. but in this case his vote looks golden.

VOTE: Quick

Let’s all just “quick”lynch the slot so Assemble doesn’t have to replace. Plus, it gets one of the neighbors out.

Now you want to remove a neighbor?

VOTE: Quick
Policy.

What policy are you talking about here?

whilst I entirely agree with the point egg is making... it's not relevant at all. sorry

It's pretty relevant, Nos was asking about why he was complaining about people calling reads 'bad' on Day 1.

Flavor Leaf thinks anyone's reasons for voting him are bad. but in this case his vote looks golden.

VOTE: Quick

lolwut
I mean Quick said something bordering on scumslip in the hood but why do you think it's a good vote?

You're just laughing at me for the sake of laughing at me.

Replacing out because you don't like someone you are playing with supposedly reiks of scum to me.

Not really? You don't want to play a game with people you hate, regardless of if you're on their team or not. Also, none of that was laughing at you.

[Nictis]

p. 44

I mean, I thought Quick was scummy anyways, and usually I can town read him easily when he’s town. This mixed in with LUV being a bit off before he replaced, along with the neighborhood, I actually scum read the slot.

In the neighborhood, he talked about trying to policy me, then went and made an alignment case rather than explain why the policy.

I actually think the slot is scum, neighborhood gets trimmed, and I feel it’s just an optimal day 1 lynch.

This makes sense.

Quick didn’t replace out because he’s scum, he replaced out because he’s scum on my blacklist, and I read him as scummy.

Quick said he wasn’t aware when he replaced in, yet in the neighborhood he brought up trying to policy before I even started posting. He then made a case on me.

He left after I started pushing back.

Replacement is NAI, but the stuff said around it is scummy to me

I'd like to see Inferno verify this because Gamma has been defending you a lot, but this seems pretty good. I'll vote Quick if I don't see something more worthwhile while catching up.

This fucking town

Just vote flubber

cut the stupid crap

Jesus fuck I come in for one normal game and it's a disaster

Can you stop making me think you're a Lyncher? Please?

Quick said he wasn’t aware when he replaced in, yet in the neighborhood he brought up trying to policy before I even started posting. He then made a case on me.

Can someone else in the hood please confirm/deny this?

I kinda doubt he'd lie when people can come in and verify like that.

I think you'd be surprised about what people lie about. Also, interpretation matters. Thats why I wanted another opinion.

@profii,

quick was allegedly pushing a policy lynch on Flavor Leaf. before he said, in game thread, that he didn't realize Flavor was in this game?

kinda fucky.

and that, ladies and gents, is enough to warrant my first vote of the game.
VOTE: Quick

^This.

Stop

If Quick pops up as scum, I'm going to be wondering why you wanted us to focus on Flubber so much that you ignored everything else.

[Nictis]

p.45

how do you know nothing about the hood...

how do you know nothing about the hood...

It MAY be because I haven't read the game, and have only Isoed

Still bet you a dollar i have better reads than most of the game

Nosferatu is scum!nos

Flubber is scum!flubber

No idea on quick

still don't know about this neighborhood

---

okay
I was basically testing you for deliberate ignorance, you passed

-Snip-
Like, one minute to ISO nsg and Townlock them, 3 minutes to call out Nos, 3 minutes to ISO and call FL and Beef as Prob. Town and Def. Town, and 1 to lock TwoInAMillion as Town. This doesn't seem like "Just catching up now" to me, it feels prepared in a way.

They claimed to ISO FlavorLeaf, Nos, Beef, NSG, and TIAM. I'm pretty sure FlavorLeaf mentioned the hood at least once considering it was part of his claim, and I know TIAM did a bit on scum having to be in the neighborhood. So there's that.

Can we actually confirm the order of Quick's post's please? Like, with a time sigs or something?

No, yeah, just checked, this is bull.

VOTE: Quick

Appreciated.

are we happy ending the day here?

Unless something worse comes up, yep. I'll maintain my suspicion on FL though.

[Nictis]

p.47

Quick wagon seems opportunistic

Quick looked scummy before the whole policy vote thing, but I find the wagon unsettling. There are probably at least 2 scum on it and FL is probably not one of them. I'm going to stay far away from a wagon that has grown by sheer opportunism.

VOTE: 2iam

Valid counterwagon.

FoS: Mulch
I feel like he's throwing a lot of ideas around but not really scumhunting.

The Quick wagon didn't seem opportunistic to me, but I might have missed something there. What makes you two think it's an attack of opportunity?

At this point, it’s not even just a lynch all liars thing for me.

It was the replace out the post after I went afternoon him, me having my paranoia on LUV, AND the slot is in the neighborhood.

It’s a perfect Day 1 lynch.

If Two is scum, I feel like that would be easy ish to figure out with more info.

But your leaning on it? If you had to say which way you'd expect Two to flip right now, would you expect Town or Scum?

What policy was Quick even trying to push? Lynch a fake claim?

As for the policy lynch, his reasoning was because Leaf has "a horrible playstyle." Which is both AtP and shit reason for a PL, so
-snip-

AtP is Appeal to Policy right? On the one hand the provided reasoning matches them not liking to play with one another, on the other that's still a pretty poor reason and he replaced out when it didn't work. Could go either way, but seems pretty easy to say he's scum now. (I'd give it 80/20 odds with what's been said so far)

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: tiam

I prefer this to the quick slot.

[Nictis]

As the person who Two tunnels relentlessly, I don’t think any of his stuff is out of the ordinary as townTwo right now. If he’s scum, it will become obvious later. If he’s town, it’ll become extremely obvious later.

I'll have to take your word on it here, he doesn't read as Town to me right now.

Flavor leaf is extremely towny

Trust me, I know his scum game

Considering how much time you spent reading the posts and your constant demands to sheep you, I don't trust you.

I could care less about your read on me. Because one tunneling scum VI is not going to get me lynched.
And I don't care what world you're from or what meta you play, spewing AtP and one-word sentences are not "forthcoming." It's more or less a weak version of active lurking, saying things without really doing anything or contributing to town.

@All: I just read looked through TIAM's ISO, guys, and it's actually just a combination of AtP, IIOA, NAI opinion-based reads, and one word sentences that don't really contribute anything. It's really scummy.

Seems worth a read through. Will fill in opinion when I have it here.

Did an ISO, linked the posts I mention. The spoiler is big, but I think it's still important to read through. I also think that Inferno's post up there ^ is bullshit.

Spoiler:

-Early scum read on FlavorLeaf, seems to be a personal reason rather than because of the fakeclaim. (100, 104, 153, 361)
-Directs attention towards neighborhood (116, 127) Seems to not see the issue with telling PR's to go check someone else. (130, 132)
-What appears to be a retaliatory vote towards Pine (135)
-Reasoning provided for vote is wrong (138, 149)
-+To clarify, he says he voting Pine because Pine is against his pro-town logic. This is not what Pine had said, he said that directing actions away is self serving. Hard to tell if this is an intentional misread or not. 171 makes me think like it's not intentional, but it seems hard to misread it that badly.
-Calls FL's dismissal of him 'whining' (334 & 335, in response to Egg and FL's 320 & 331)
-+Less related to Two and more related to Flavor Leaf, but this is the second time he has defended himself in a way that dodges the issue. 69: FlavorLeaf claims that I was calling him scum for not playing what I consider to be the 'Right' way to play Mafia. A blatant lie. 331 is him calling Two annoying and just nodding along with Egg saying that Two is ignoring the thread in favor of saying that he's scum. Both cast shade on the people calling him out.
-Unnecessary support given to Pine for voting Flavor Leaf (424)
-+Seems more encouraging the vote than supporting Pine. Has Townread Inferno and Pine for the Dayvig gambit. (171)
-Was willing to vote NSG if FL lynch wouldn't work out. (427)
-Attempts to use Boon Meta for FL lynch. (453, 463, 470)
-+Unsure on how genuine this is, could be a difference in experience from other players. He could be working off his experience and that's what he experienced, or it might be a case of selective memory.
-+Worth noting is that Two pointed to when Boon had lied in Thread about IRL being in the way when he had said in the scum chat that he was just avoiding activity so he didn't appear scummy. (474) And that Boon has done similar in this same game. (710, 712)
-His Townreads match his previous posts in thought and seem honest rather than showing support. (476)
-His provided reasoning for voting Flavor Leaf becomes more credible later. 478 in particular ties his posts about previous games into his reasoning for voting FL better than he had done before. 487 matches FL's activity in this very thread.
-He lightly comments on Gamma Emeralds strong defense of FL. (498)
-+Warning: Tangent. The play between Gamma Emerald and Two here is interesting. 520 has some strong antagonism from Gamma for what appears to be a misread. 522 has Gamma sticking a bunch of laughter at Two for saying that a 4 Town Neighborhood isn't usually viable. Because the game shares a resemblance to another game which had a 4 Town neighborhood. Seems off to me, makes me wonder what it is that makes Gamma think that this game is like 203? All they should know about the setup is their own role, there being a 4p hood, and the total number of players. There's no other info available for them to assume that it's similar enough to 203 to feel confident to discard the very idea that there might be scum in the hood. Sure, say that it isn't guaranteed to have scum in the hood, but laughing at the idea of there being scum in the hood because of a passing resemblance to another game seems off.
-Backs off of the Flavor Leaf vote because of pressure. Does not retract suspicion at all. (589, 595)
-+Considering how strongly GE pushes against anything pointing at Flavor Leaf, it's understandable that he decided to back off here.

Especially considering that he wasn't receiving any support.

-Votes UCV and profii (660, 687)
-+I can see why the vote on profii would be seen as opportunistic. It feels opportunistic as hell, and his post about "The needs of the many"

really

doesn't help. But his provided reasoning matches up, both of the people who voted profii before him are people he has Townread before. It seems to me like he's just going along with whatever the Town at large wants because he's seen that he can't get results from pushing FL with Egg and Gamma pulling out chainsaws right now.
-Needs of many/Needs of few quote (689, 698)
-+Originally a Star Trek quote apparently, it was used in a moment of self sacrifice to showcase Logic against Humanity. The page that he had pulled from is instead a commentary on the later reversal, by the Ayn Rand method of rationality. The quote works better if you stick to what was provided by Star Trek rather than the commentary he linked.
-Initial suspicion of Inferno being scum (787)
-Vote on Inferno (938)
-+Reason provided is him disagreeing with Inferno's read list. This seems to match his earlier thought process (127, 138, 149) and my own experience with several of the more outspoken followers of Ayn Rand's Rationality.

Backing off of the ISO of TIAM because I need a break. My current read is that he's Town, he is bad at giving good reasons for voting someone, and will believe that his reasons for voting someone are perfect until he is proven wrong. His original reasoning for voting FL seem to be carryovers from previous games, but he's gotten more substantial reasons for it since then. I need to finish the ISO later, but I feel pretty confident in saying that TIAM is Town.