Open 722: Red Flag [Endgame]

[northsidestory]

paranoid theory – creature as scum needs to obvtown / not get lynched only for day 1 so he can be killed tonight.

[Fumuki]

i'm probably a lot more agreeable as scum now in which u can see in the game i posted. id probably have been a lot more passive and friendly as a wolf here, but we can discuss that in dvc.

nah im not antitown sometimes strategies go deeper than face value. i can convince you im right later when it matters. for now, getting a feel for people and making interactions happen is more important.

That's going to be some work but then can you please name your games as scum here in MS?

If you don't have any more recent than the one I posted, bring us more of any forum. I'm sorry to say, however only one game isn't going to convince me you don't play aggressive as scum anymore...

[Killthestory]

assume if im not pushing them theyre at the very least not scumreads. announcing trs without precedent gives scum an idea of who to kill.

teacher: weak reads, scummy tone, more focused on looking town than actually solving.
thebrie: incredibly awkward entrance with an oblivious look later on that gives him a rather fake vibe. wagon composition solid with 0 reason to move off him.
pisskop: weak entrance little content.
wgeurts: meh entrance but not enough content to justify him not being a wolf.

deepwolves:
bbt: aggro style reads as town but his pushes read like hes openwolfing, and i wont clear him for tone alone.
ceejay: solid content but awkward tone and lack of joking which os indicative of him being villa means he might be a deepwolf even if he isnt utr'd.

@Fumuki, in my iso i linked a recent scum game on mu. i have a lot of towngames on there, too, if u wanna view those.

[Killthestory]

paranoid theory – creature as scum needs to obvtown / not get lynched only for day 1 so he can be killed tonight.

he's self resolving

[Fumuki]

paranoid theory – creature as scum needs to obvtown / not get lynched only for day 1 so he can be killed tonight.

I don't know if it's true but even in his own wiki he says that he is usually disinterested in playing as scum and therefore is a little easier to read him. However, I don't have any more substantial info of him.

When you return Northside-san, can you please give us your read in creature?

[Killthestory]

we are never hitting creature today.

[Fumuki]

@Fumuki, in my iso i linked a recent scum game on mu. i have a lot of towngames on there, too, if u wanna view those.

I see you posted some content and later I'll analyze it, now I really need to hit bed. And I know you posted a scum game on mu. What I'm asking is if you have any more scum games at least more recent than the one I linked here. In other words...more scum games. One isn't enough...

[Killthestory]

there's hedgehogs on mu which is my most recent, but i was super passive and low posting there lol. i was still the carry of the team, but i was a very weak carry since all 5 lowest posters were all mafia LOL. i havent randed scum much recently.

[TheBrie]

wolves poe: pk, teacher, wgeurts, cj
deepwolves poe: cfj, hiraki, bbt,

I think this means Kind of scummy and a very scummy. Please clarify if I miss understood that. A lot of KTS terminology is not something I understand well. Also I don't know where half these reads are coming from, and I thought KTS was scum reading me before then, and after then?

paranoid theory – creature as scum needs to obvtown / not get lynched only for day 1 so he can be killed tonight.

What is this supposed to mean? If Creature is scum, I can see no reason they would kill him N1. Even if he spiraled to obv scum on day two. Also, if that's what scum are doing, we probably don't need to worry about it.

If anyone is wondering why I was mostly ignoring the wagon on me, it's because I often get a bit of a wagon D1 and unless people are asking me to explain something in particular, or a lynch is imminent, it makes more sense to do other things.

I still can't read creature. He really isn't contributing much, which means he's probably a bit bored, which could mean scum, but it's not strong. Still I will leave my vote there until I'm sure of moving it to someone else.

[callforjudgement]

If you can't read Creature (unsurprising due to the lack of content), why not focus on reading someone else? There are plenty of people here with enough content to get a reasonable read.

[TheBrie]

I've forgotten how to read. Creature was just being talkd about. But, yes I do mean to look at someoen else.

[TheBrie]

Loooking over recent thihgs.
Despite being annoying and a little erratic, KTS doesn't really strike me as scummy. I'd feel more confident with that if He hadn't chopped and changed some of his reads a bit. Someone (prob CFJ) made the point that his strong opinions didn't leave the wriggle room that Scum prefer, but that's not so much the case now. Still his posts do further activity (for those who follow them) and he does make sense.

I don't like the case that Fumaki didn't even bother making on TKS. Because in my head he's certainly not OBV scum.If anyone is obv scum at the moment I'm completely oblivious to it.

[TheBrie]

Most Towny

Fumuki, CFJ
KTS, ActionDan, Hiraki, BBT
TheBrie, Creature, Teacher
Northside, wgeurts, PK

Least Towny

What in particular about Northside makes you think she's so scummy? I've got her as a dead null until she starts doing something.

IS the order in the rows random or also indicating town to scum, by any chance. Because I'm surprised to see Fumaki as such a high town read. Though the more I think about it, I'm just not cetain enough about anyonw to put them very high. CFJ sits up top all on his own in my head.

Do you really think Wgeurts lack of participation as scummy? Currently I'm thinking it's just inability to post or something like that, but I haven't looked into the player.

[TheBrie]

Just checked. wgeurts is a long standing player, doesn't appear to be playing any other games right now. Verdict: Absence is like NAI

Pisskop made one other post in another game today, but it was very short. I'll let it go for now, but if he doesn't start doing something soon, perhaps we should start pestering him.

[Killthestory]

thebrie is tming but not genuinely solving

[Fumuki]

hmmm......I see...

Spoiler:

Currently I would like to slow down in my current thoughts and ask for more content from Northside, pisskop, Hiraki, teacher and Action.

wgeurts is already prodded and probably will be replaced...

KTS, in regards to your recent list, these reads specifically are what I would like to discuss ...:

teacher: weak reads, scummy tone, more focused on looking town than actually solving.
thebrie: incredibly awkward entrance with an oblivious look later on that gives him a rather fake vibe. wagon composition solid with 0 reason to move off him.

Could you pin point exactly why his reads are weak and his tone scummy? Even if I think his reads are somewhat wrong, he at least elaborated/analyzed them even linking to posts. Plus, he's not actively casting shade, he's analyzing and willing to discuss. Teacher readlist below:

Spoiler:

1. Ive played online before, but am only in one other (active) game here. This site's meta is soemwhat new to me, especially this game with hella short posts and brief analysis. I say that as intro because my newbness may strike you as off, and I may miss somethings due to the meta not being familiar.

2. I really want to like Fumuki and CFJ, as they have offered substantive posts advancing info, and fumuki seems like someone willing to do homework in player's histories. But I scumread Fumuki, and by extension CFJ. The read is because of 73 - a repeat townread of CFJ (first one in 56) at a time when CFJ isnt being actively sus'ed. Just seems too buddy-buddy for a role where you actually dont know anything. Plus I had a slight sus of CFJ 57 "dont talk mafia strat," as that could avoid discussion outing the strat they are playing by.

3. As a result of those reads, I townread BBT. I also like Creatures reads, and so them. (side note, I rarely look left to see gender so use they/them alot).

4. More nullish reads on Kill and Hiraki. I dont see Mafia being as super agro as Kill is being. I get Hiraki's criticism of Kill's vote, but dont see much else coming out of them.

5. I see a potential contradiction in Pisskop's frownie face at Creature's 48 immediately followed by a desire to talk about mafia kills at 53. Maybe Im overinterpreting an emoji tho.

6. Action - can you explain the townread on Northside?

7. Brie/WGuertz -- need more participation to have views.

Now about TheBrie, the entrance you're talking about is supposedly these two:

Spoiler:

Confirming that I was not awake in the middle of the night.

VOTE: Creature
Because Creature is always scum (sometimes) and also confirmed late.

My personal meta is probably irrelevant seeing as I haven't played since the middle of last year. I'll try to stay in.

and...

Spoiler:

Haven't found someone worth voting

What makes a person worth voting then?

Why is it "incredibly awkward" in your opinion?

And about the "oblivious look later", what exactly does it mean?

Do you think that it was enough to lock her slot as scum so early...?

Seems like we're making progress together now KTS-san...

[Fumuki]

Loooking over recent thihgs.
Despite being annoying and a little erratic, KTS doesn't really strike me as scummy. I'd feel more confident with that

if He hadn't chopped and changed some of his reads a bit

. Someone (prob CFJ) made the point that his strong opinions didn't leave the wriggle room that Scum prefer, but that's not so much the case now.

Still his posts do further activity (for those who follow them) and he does make sense.

What exactly "makes sense" if until now he wasn't explaining any of his read Brie-san...?

I don't like the case that Fumaki didn't even bother making on TKS. Because in my head he's certainly not OBV scum.If anyone is obv scum at the moment I'm completely oblivious to it.

Uh...I admit that I may have been wrong in not initially giving explanations, but by the time of your post, I already had give it. Even if you disagree, wouldn't it be better to go back there and comment about the arguments I used instead of implying that I'm voting TKS without a reason...?

[Fumuki]

@Creature What are your thoughts at the game so far? Have you been busy IRL? Do you have a special reason to be disinterested in this game?

[Creature]

My crazy desire was that we should try a wagon on KTS.

[Creature]

I think if both TheBrie and Killthestory are scum, one of them will be killed.

[Fumuki]

I think if both TheBrie and Killthestory are scum, one of them will be killed.

What would you say that is preventing you from voting right now? Do you have a third suspect if that was the case?

[Creature]

Nah, it's more that I have two suspects.

[Killthestory]

My crazy desire was that we should try a wagon on KTS.

legendary

[Fumuki]

I guess my ceevay read would sorta rely on TheBrie's flip

Some posts after this you said "scratch it" because CJ vote was supposedly a RVS vote. But ignoring the fact that CJ vote is supposedly a RVS vote in page 3, what were you thinking when you said this phrase? I know you post only short phrases, however try to explain it in a conclusive way.

[teacher]

So I have indeed dramatically updated my analysis. I still want more participation from Brie, PK, and WG before I share on them. To increase pressure for now, I will VOTE: Pisskop. The following discussion is by player slot, in line with my notes:

1. Creature - You claim your oneliners have alot of content, but Im not seeing it. In 319, you say you have two suspects, but you need more than that in this game. As best I can tell, youve towned everyone else but WGeurtz (inactive slot) and CFJ. I am particularly interested in your townread of pisskop, 133. Care to explain?

nullread

.

2. Fumuki-san - You have been by far the most active poster. But you have shared precious few reads, other than interpreting your votes. Style seems LAMISTy, while not actually PROVIDING info (certainly have been asking questions, and detailing some meta behind them). Really dont like the active concealing of your reasons behind the kill vote. On balance, still

scumlean

.

3. Teacher - obvious dirt bag.

4. Hiraki - not much content, but declared V/LA. Not digging the complete tunnel on Kill, but like your town reads and when you have claimed them. Hoping for more participation, but for now

townlean

.

5. Pisskop - too low activity to really read. But what is there suggests following thread and discussion. Seems active lurking and

scum

.

6. Action - Like your reads, and like when youve gotten them. I appreciate your explanations for them, even if I dont always agree with it. Would like for you to share views on more slots, please?

townlean

7. Kill - I wish that you would explain your reads, as it helps provide more information and allows a defense. Am particularly wondering about your progression on CeeJay. That said, I like that youre sharing all of them, and that you have changed them as often as you have. Youre an experienced enough player that I think some of the contradictions I have seen between reads and posts is actually AI town, as scum you wouldnt let them be caught this easily.

town

.

8. CeeJay - through 208, I was sus'ing you. But that post provided good analysis that I could grok. I disagree with 219, because providing reads could be helpful associational data in later days. Also,248 ("dont post list") and 254 ("heres my list"), seem a bit contradictory, but Im not going to hold it against you because, as stated, I like this info. Overall,

null

9. WGeurtz - nothing.

10. BBT - going over it again made me realize how little content youve posted. You called out Fumuki (whom I also sus), but concealed the reason, and since then havent come back. Surely the game has advanced enough now that you can share your reasoning? Or thoughts on other players?

null

11. North -- V/LA with a townie entrance.

townlean

.

12. CFJ -- You have provided reads, reasoning, and information regarding TheBrie. I really liked 135. I disagree with your 216, as I think town wants flexibility too since they come into the game with no information. But you seemed to recognize this in 286 - a contradiction between posts that Im not going to hold against you, but point out. Bottom line, advancing the game is

townlean

13. Brie -- The reasons for people voting you seem silly. But you arent providing me any particular reason to defend you either. Get involved.

Null