Open 722: Red Flag [Endgame]

[Fumuki]

@KTS let's not stop with the progress...could you please answer my questions...?

@Creature, you yet didn't respond. What's holding you back from placing your vote in KTS at least for now?

[Creature]

I guess my ceevay read would sorta rely on TheBrie's flip

Some posts after this you said "scratch it" because CJ vote was supposedly a RVS vote. But ignoring the fact that CJ vote is supposedly a RVS vote in page 3, what were you thinking when you said this phrase? I know you post only short phrases, however try to explain it in a conclusive way.

I imagined ceevaj as some Hercules leading the evil Medusa to decapitation.

[Killthestory]

i'm being scumread by town and townread by scum.

that said, nobody is pushing fumuki.

[Creature]

VOTE: KTS

[Creature]

What's holding you back from placing your vote in KTS at least for now?

Usually I hold back my vote if I'm afraid of accidentally hammering/L-1ing someone.

[Creature]

that said, nobody is pushing fumuki.

???

[Killthestory]

nobody is going to ever push fumuki when i'm alive in any universe ever. that's a soulread that is never wrong. same with creature.

[Fumuki]

2. Fumuki-san - You have been by far the most active poster. But you have shared precious few reads, other than interpreting your votes. Style seems LAMISTy, while not actually PROVIDING info (certainly have been asking questions, and detailing some meta behind them). Really dont like the active concealing of your reasons behind the kill vote. On balance, still

scumlean

.

If you do some diving in me you'll find that is part of my play style to not constantly make townreads or scumreads because I don't like fluctuation. I want to have basis for what I say. But you're right, I didn't provide much in terms of reads.

My best townreads are BBT and Hiraki. BBT entrance suspecting someone that was being strongly townread doesn't see a scum play (together with his a little bit weird case, that I think it's more based on the paranoia of having someone be so townlean so easily) and Hiraki is regarding his solo clash against KTS (I can provide more about him if you ask me however by reading his posts you can see where I'm coming from).

I wasn't "concealing" my reasons for KTS vote, and already disclosed a good amount of my arguments afterwards (which both you and TheBrie ignored while commenting on my vote).

Now...aside from that teacher-san...it's around time to you start interacting....

Ask meaningful question to the slots you want more info, question motives in recent posts, etc. Only giving us your impressions/readlist isn't that useful...

You seem like a analytical person as I said before...I'm expecting good things...

[Killthestory]

teacher and thebrie seem to be related and most likely scum aligned

[Fumuki]

I imagined ceevaj as some Hercules leading the evil Medusa to decapitation.

But would that Hercules be a real hero, or a fake hero?

teacher and thebrie seem to be related and most likely scum aligned

Could you elaborate it a bit more KTS-san?

[Creature]

But would that Hercules be a real hero, or a fake hero?

What do you think?

[Creature]

Heh

TheBrie wagon sorta died.

[Killthestory]

Heh

TheBrie wagon sorta died.

i won't let it.

[Fumuki]

But would that Hercules be a real hero, or a fake hero?

What do you think?

What do you think that I think?

[teacher]

meaningful question to the slots you want more info, question motives in recent posts

TBH, this feels misreppy. In case you missed it, the reads list had questions for most of the people I want to question. In case they missed it too:

@Creature: Why town Pisskop in 133?

@Fumuki: What are your reasons on Kill? You say you had posted them...All I see is 272 Hiraki and recent posts; 276 I dont have to explain. 279 did provide some reasons, but I disagreed with them. For example, you questioned why his lists didnt have Brie on it. But they were listing PoE (process of elimination), so including their current vote doesnt seem necessary (but my second game and I dont know the meta on this, I just dont see non-inclusion as error). The whole cop thing struck me as an obv joke that again you were trying to overblow. Bottom line, I wanted to you to explain again. As has been discussed before (in the context of you answering questions put to others), sometimes it is useful to get people to repeat themselves.

@Action - please broaden out and provide views on more slots.

*PEdit: No, I am indifferent to Brie, and could join later. Just dont want to up a wagon now when theres 3 slots essentially not participating and so alot more info to be gotten.

@BBT - whats your reasoning on Fumuki?

[teacher]

teacher and thebrie seem to be related and most likely scum aligned

Responded just above, but misplaced the Pedit. Just pointing it out.

[Fumuki]

meaningful question to the slots you want more info, question motives in recent posts

TBH, this feels misreppy.

It isn't...you hadn't questioned me in the original list, that makes 3 question out of the playerlist, and one of them (to BBT) is about something he already repeated and his ISO answer it by itself...the same thing happened in the older post that contained a question to Action, but he had answered it 2 posts before.
Said that, I apologize if it sounded like I was telling you weren't engaged or questioning at all teacher-san, it's just that at this point, questioning is a pretty good for town and we must do it as much as possible.

@Fumuki: What are your reasons on Kill? You say you had posted them...All I see is 272 Hiraki and recent posts; 276 I dont have to explain. 279 did provide some reasons, but I disagreed with them.

In 272 and 276 I'm not explaining anything and leave it clear, I thought CFJ and a good amount of players were already at the same wavelength. In 279 I provide some of the reasons and let's talk about them for the moment.

For example, you questioned why his lists didnt have Brie on it. But they were listing PoE (process of elimination), so including their current vote doesnt seem necessary (but my second game and I dont know the meta on this, I just dont see non-inclusion as error)

Teacher-san, that's exactly the weird thing...I'm questioning KTS-san exactly why Brie doesn't even goes through process of elimination and is locked as scum.

The whole cop thing struck me as an obv joke that again you were trying to overblow. Bottom line, I wanted to you to explain again. As has been discussed before (in the context of you answering questions put to others), sometimes it is useful to get people to repeat themselves

It's not a joke. He had already said something about n0 way before (and I didn't know what was n0), and in the forum that he usually plays, there's night zero and the cop can indeed check people. Plus, he himself said (more or less, I'm not going back to take the exactly quote)

"You're accusing me because I didn't know there was no cop?"

. However I'm yet reflecting in definitive conclusions to this cop thing that for now is something very minor...

In a side note, you forgot what I'm after KTS the most with my vote. Solid and analytical explanations to his reads, and it seems we're making progress...

[Fumuki]

Heh

TheBrie wagon sorta died.

i won't let it.

I'm not pushing aside a Brie wagon either...but could you answer what I asked before KTS-san...? It may make me vote on her if I'm convinced...

KTS, in regards to your recent list, these reads specifically are what I would like to discuss ...:

teacher: weak reads, scummy tone, more focused on looking town than actually solving.
thebrie: incredibly awkward entrance with an oblivious look later on that gives him a rather fake vibe. wagon composition solid with 0 reason to move off him.

Now about TheBrie, the entrance you're talking about is supposedly these two:

Spoiler:

Confirming that I was not awake in the middle of the night.

VOTE: Creature
Because Creature is always scum (sometimes) and also confirmed late.

My personal meta is probably irrelevant seeing as I haven't played since the middle of last year. I'll try to stay in.

and...

Spoiler:

Haven't found someone worth voting

What makes a person worth voting then?

Why is it "incredibly awkward" in your opinion?

And about the "oblivious look later", what exactly does it mean?

Do you think that it was enough to lock her slot as scum so early...?

[northsidegal]

Prodding wgeurts

[ceejayvinoya]

assume if im not pushing them theyre at the very least not scumreads. announcing trs without precedent gives scum an idea of who to kill.

teacher: weak reads, scummy tone, more focused on looking town than actually solving.
thebrie: incredibly awkward entrance with an oblivious look later on that gives him a rather fake vibe. wagon composition solid with 0 reason to move off him.
pisskop: weak entrance little content.
wgeurts: meh entrance but not enough content to justify him not being a wolf.

deepwolves:
bbt: aggro style reads as town but his pushes read like hes openwolfing, and i wont clear him for tone alone.
ceejay: solid content but awkward tone and lack of joking which os indicative of him being villa means he might be a deepwolf even if he isnt utr'd.

@Fumuki, in my iso i linked a recent scum game on mu. i have a lot of towngames on there, too, if u wanna view those.

Do I look like a comedian to you?

You also mentioned Hiraki as a direwolf earlier, but he isn't here. Are you more sure of him this time?

[ceejayvinoya]

Most Towny

Fumuki, CFJ
KTS, ActionDan, Hiraki, BBT
TheBrie, Creature, Teacher
Northside, wgeurts, PK

Least Towny

What in particular about Northside makes you think she's so scummy? I've got her as a dead null until she starts doing something.

IS the order in the rows random or also indicating town to scum, by any chance. Because I'm surprised to see Fumaki as such a high town read. Though the more I think about it, I'm just not cetain enough about anyonw to put them very high. CFJ sits up top all on his own in my head.

Do you really think Wgeurts lack of participation as scummy? Currently I'm thinking it's just inability to post or something like that, but I haven't looked into the player.

This isn't a town to scum list, it's more of who i think has done the most to be considered towny this game. It's a work in progress and may change often, so I probably won't post it as much.

[ceejayvinoya]

My crazy desire was that we should try a wagon on KTS.

You're either Nutso or Gutso.

[ceejayvinoya]

So I have indeed dramatically updated my analysis. I still want more participation from Brie, PK, and WG before I share on them. To increase pressure for now, I will VOTE: Pisskop. The following discussion is by player slot, in line with my notes:

1. Creature - You claim your oneliners have alot of content, but Im not seeing it. In 319, you say you have two suspects, but you need more than that in this game. As best I can tell, youve towned everyone else but WGeurtz (inactive slot) and CFJ. I am particularly interested in your townread of pisskop, 133. Care to explain?

nullread

.

2. Fumuki-san - You have been by far the most active poster. But you have shared precious few reads, other than interpreting your votes. Style seems LAMISTy, while not actually PROVIDING info (certainly have been asking questions, and detailing some meta behind them). Really dont like the active concealing of your reasons behind the kill vote. On balance, still

scumlean

.

3. Teacher - obvious dirt bag.

4. Hiraki - not much content, but declared V/LA. Not digging the complete tunnel on Kill, but like your town reads and when you have claimed them. Hoping for more participation, but for now

townlean

.

5. Pisskop - too low activity to really read. But what is there suggests following thread and discussion. Seems active lurking and

scum

.

6. Action - Like your reads, and like when youve gotten them. I appreciate your explanations for them, even if I dont always agree with it. Would like for you to share views on more slots, please?

townlean

7. Kill - I wish that you would explain your reads, as it helps provide more information and allows a defense. Am particularly wondering about your progression on CeeJay. That said, I like that youre sharing all of them, and that you have changed them as often as you have. Youre an experienced enough player that I think some of the contradictions I have seen between reads and posts is actually AI town, as scum you wouldnt let them be caught this easily.

town

.

8. CeeJay - through 208, I was sus'ing you. But that post provided good analysis that I could grok. I disagree with 219, because providing reads could be helpful associational data in later days. Also,248 ("dont post list") and 254 ("heres my list"), seem a bit contradictory, but Im not going to hold it against you because, as stated, I like this info. Overall,

null

9. WGeurtz - nothing.

10. BBT - going over it again made me realize how little content youve posted. You called out Fumuki (whom I also sus), but concealed the reason, and since then havent come back. Surely the game has advanced enough now that you can share your reasoning? Or thoughts on other players?

null

11. North -- V/LA with a townie entrance.

townlean

.

12. CFJ -- You have provided reads, reasoning, and information regarding TheBrie. I really liked 135. I disagree with your 216, as I think town wants flexibility too since they come into the game with no information. But you seemed to recognize this in 286 - a contradiction between posts that Im not going to hold against you, but point out. Bottom line, advancing the game is

townlean

13. Brie -- The reasons for people voting you seem silly. But you arent providing me any particular reason to defend you either. Get involved.

Null

His analyses are getting better and better. Wish I could see less nulls tho.

@teacher I posted my list because Fumuki asked me nicely back at 252

[northsidegal]

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[northsidegal]

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