Large Normal 212: Korts' Geriatrics - Game Over @1831

[Eddie Cane]

Hurry up Boon.

Vote Count

(2) Eddie Cane - petroleumjelly, Morality
(2) Axelrod - Pine, roflcopter
(2) Tywin Lannister - Old Man, hitogoroshi
(2) Kmd4390 - MagnaofIllusion, Eddie Cane
(2) Pine - Axelrod, CooLDoG
(1) Morality - Firebringer
(1) hitogoroshi - Tywin Lannister
(1) roflcopter - insanity018
(1) Firebringer - Kison

not voting:

Kmd4390

8 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Monday the 28th of May.

[Morality]

Hurry up Boon.

I’m active lurking. There’s just a lot of wall posts so I’m trying to have my catchup be in a wall post, so I’m skimming a lot, but I’ll get to it when I get to my computer finally

[hitogoroshi]

6.)

hitogoroshi, your reasoning in Post #262 seems a bit simplistic.

Players can attack a scummy case on Player X without knowing (or having to decide) if Player X is Town or Scum. And if they think the case itself is bad (or 'scum-motivated,' as was implied), it stands to reason that they are not likely to join the wagon.

But surely the thing that makes the case scummy is the fact that scum are trying to mislynch? I don't think it's that scummy to do bad pushes on scum (in fact, I've seen games blown open because a dumb D1 wagon hit scum, and all of the votes were so arbitrary that it was an unlikely bus).

I mean, the argument holds true in that you can say "This is kind of an unsound case, so I think one possibility is that this is Player Y trying to mislynch Player X. If this is true, Player X is town, but I'm not sure that's the most likely interpretation of events here." The issue is how obsessive Twyin was about attacking the Eddie/Pine push and how much his scum reads are sourced from people pursuing it, vs the extreme reluctance to actually talk about Eddie/Pine. I really don't think this is one possibility among many for Tywin, y'know? Like, if I dayvigged Pine right now and he flipped red, can you think of any of Tywin's arguments that would still be coherent? Because I personally think he would need to rethink just about everything - which is why his "I can't even remember them" stance seems so artificial to me.

I’m active lurking. There’s just a lot of wall posts so I’m trying to have my catchup be in a wall post, so I’m skimming a lot, but I’ll get to it when I get to my computer finally

give your top 2 scum and town reads from wherever you're at in the thread with no justification

[Eddie Cane]

Eddie 261 sniped me with a lot of shit I'm saying here and I don't know if that's him actually being town or in-thread coaching. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I was gonna snipe the top part too but it was better to let you answer just in case.

If that's not the narrative I am supposed to gather from your posts, then what is? I don't really understand your playstyle, or why you have played the way you have played.

I can't tell you what my mindset is, lmao. Engage with Axel or KMD or whoever else has gave a depiction of my thoughts. I've explained my actions very clearly and if that's what you're asking I still don't understand. Also,

I will assume for the sake of argument that your "confirm" post was indeed a joke, though I am not sold on that.

scum fixating on something minute for something to latch onto probably. I am not sold on how someone could possibly believe that was serious. The rest of that paragraph is awful so :shrug:

V/LA until Saturday for my 16 hour work days Thursday and Friday.

sigh

what if old man is some kind of powerful scum role that they just really need to have alive on night one?

Then we trade a mislynch for the scum ninja, strongman, bp, ascetic, whatever other powerful scum role you're thinking of.

267: grunt of acknowledgment

Also can you tell me where you got the idea the Eddie wagon was policy?

I know why I think this. He can go first though.

Hurry up Boon.

I’m active lurking. There’s just a lot of wall posts so I’m trying to have my catchup be in a wall post, so I’m skimming a lot, but I’ll get to it when I get to my computer finally

lame

[MagnaofIllusion]

Very happy with my vote. KMD’s latest post is basically a rehash of the beginning of his first catchup to some degree and he has no reason to be going that far back when lots of things have occurred since then. He continues to avoid the direct question of whether Eddie’s reason for voting him was valid or not.

Also move Morality to my “willing to lynch pile”. There is no excuse in a 12 page game to be lurking. It is not “that dense” to read IMO. While I had a soft Town read on Chamber I’m more than willing to consider that was a wrong read.

--

Magma: You said you asked me questions multiple times now, but I haven't seen any in the thread. You've mentioned these questions at least in 5 seperate posts, but I've never actually seen any questions. Repost them

Well more it was 1 item that I wanted you to address and I mentioned it multiple times because … well … you continued to be gone. Here’s what I wanted you to address. Some of it is well dated but I’d still like you to specifically respond.

Part of me wants to respond with a spicy gif since you butchered my name but alas phone posting prevents that.

Why didn’t you notice the lack of their confirms yourself? Since Korts specifically asked for in thread confirmation I was following along since I was eager for the game to start. When we got above 10 confirms I went to look at the player list to see what knuckleheads were being slugs in being slow. So I had an ideas who was not in thread confirmed. So when Korts opened things up without Pine or Eddie’s posting I knew where to go with my RVS vote.

Do I think it is a scum tell for them to have not thread confirmed? Of course not. But Eddies entrance was awkward and deserved scrutiny. He’s waved off that he is getting pressure for a joke. Were both his posts jokes? Who knows. And his “Stupid old guy I play how I like” stance frankly is 100% of the reason I’m keeping my vote there. He said he already had lots to say about what had happened. So why not actually say it instead of saying “I’ll provide contents later when I feel like it”? Axel has already stated what I feel on that issues - it is at best bad antiTown behavior and feels scummy.

Do you disagree?

Why do you seem to suggest my stance on Eddie is “He’s scum who confirmed in his QT” when I think I’ve been pretty clear on why I actually am still voting him. Can you point me to posts that suggest that to you?

[Korts]

Since I saw someone complain about wallposts as I skimmed through, I realized I didn't include the posting guidelines that were developed in the MD thread. So here they are with some additions, as well as added to the opening posts:

Spoiler: Posting Guidelines

The following are guidelines for playing within the restrictions of a Geriatric ruleset (and generally), and are designed to reduce the pace and improve comprehensibility.

• Know how to let off the gas. Momentum is important, but this is not a race. This is a game of cooperation - make sure you don't leave anyone behind.
  
• Don't forget you're always speaking to everyone. One-on-one conflicts have their place, but they can quickly take over a thread - and nobody is interested in spectating five pages of others arguing. You don't need to have the last word - if you're stuck making the same arguments to the same people, let the thread breathe and give others a chance to weigh in.
  
• Compose your thoughts. Before submitting a post, reread yourself and cut, edit, and format your message. Make sure your point is clear, and highlight any arguments you make. For example, distinguish separate subjects with expandable spoilers or area tags.
  
• As an overly general rule, any post that is shorter than three sentences is too short, and any post that doesn't fit on a single computer screen is too long.

To specifically avoid illegible wallpost formations, consider the following editorial rules of thumb:

• Limit the number of quotes to 2-3 per post. If you need to refer to more, use links instead.
  
• If you strip a quote from a larger post, do not put a quote from any other post alongside it.
  
• Limit the number of paragraphs per post to 5-6. Limit the number of lines per paragraph to 5-6.
  
• If the post gets too big, use section headers, expandable spoiler tags, and horizontal lines in a consistent and logical way to structure multiple topics within the same post.
  
• Use ordered or unordered lists wherever justified to break the flow of text. Precede lists with a single sentence platform statement in a separate paragraph.
  
• Use colors or emphasis tags to highlight key information.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Questions to OldMan –

1. Why were the reactions to your claim “disappointing”, what does that say about the possible alignments of those invovled and why didn’t you address any of them other than mine directly? For someone who has been espousing that clarity is important you were very less than clear there.

2. Why do you continue to ask about “meta” for me? Because I will tell you directly I very much doubt you can make any sort of meta read on me that is meaningful. Both Pine and Axel (at least one of which you seem to think is Town) have both said at various points they thought I was possibly Town but are wary of my scum game. That should have been an indication that meta for me is probably pointless but you seem to act as if no-one has given you any information

--

Wait, what? Since you mentioned almost nothing about CoolDoG but had him high up on the town list, I assumed you did it on strength of claim like the rest of us. But this implies it was something behavioral and not the claim; so why did you have CoolDoG town in the first place?

to be fair, it is the second and this was well broadcasted

Thanks to both of you for trying to undermine my

very subtle

attempt to encourage Cooldog to post as much as possible Day 1.

[Kison]

KISON: I like your vote on me and I approve it with all he fire I got. Which is like three fire stars. I think your vote on me is strangely accusing me of same thing your guilty of in other word not trying, but I concede that I am also not trying very hard because this game isn’t extremely engaging to me. I’ll try to get into mindset of it being that way but it will take time. Keep the vote up maybe I’ll do something

I certainly wasn't trying until I read the game two days ago. Every time I open this game I immediately want to dust off the XBox. But your wall posts looked like fake effort & your reads... well, the like two that you have... don't add up.

Right now gonna sheep Eddie even though he is pushing soma slot I think is Town.

Do you have that much faith in Eddie's scumhunting abilities??

Come on, now. Your post gave me nothing new. Give me your top picks for scum, even if it's off the cuff.

But KMD gets my vote for yet another post that avoids him directly addressing Eddie’s reasoning for voting him and whether it is valid or not and the side of for the “Dog Ate My Homework”.

VOTE: KMD

Similarly, would join this wagon. KMD, seriously. Why are you still not voting after all this time? Even with the post you lost & subsequent halfway catchup reread, I'd expect you to at least be able to summarize your thought process & vote.

Hito:

Tywin has not really pinged my scumdar at all this entire game, so I'm trying to figure out what you're going after here. Is this accurate?
- Post 99 seems fabricated / fake.
- Fencesitting on Pine/Eddie, low post:content ratio, maybe they're probably scum together.
- Going after the Eddie voters while having Eddie as a null read.

Tywin:

Your post 255 doesn't tell me much about how you view Axel/PJ's play since your prior post. It seems like a lazy carryover from before. So:
- You went after Axel for similar reasons to me. I'm curious to see if there's anything since your

post 99

about his play that reinforces your decision to include him in your scum pool.
- Same question but regarding PJ.

People I want to review individually off the top of my head: Insanity, PJ, Axelrod.

[CooLDoG]

@Chamber I did not join to ruin this game as much as try out a new playstyle that is more “acceptable” by the larger community. The site and geriatrics love wall posts and I intend to deliver to everyone that so much wants to see wall posts the pleasure of them.

Cooldog: I don’t believe your claim at all. Deal with it.

quote more than you currently do, but less than me. Also, I'm getting lynched at some point for my claim, so. I know that.

The speed of which this wagon is constructed is rather concerning. How is it nothing more than a thinly veiled policy lynch? By my count, five out of eight votes needed to lynch appeared on a newbie player within a lightning-short span of time. I do not support this, and, in fact believe that such a rapid-forming wagon must be scum-driven, especially and most certainly if Eddie Cane's alignment is revealed to be town at some point in the future.

This is scummy. Firstly we see him using trying to sell Eddie as a “newbie” who is the target of a “thinly veiled policy lynch”. It is ludicrous to assert that a random RVS wagon (which is a very common occurance on MS) is in any way a policy lynch. The only player I see on the playerlist that might have warranted a policy lynch is Firebringer and this being a Geriatric game blunts most of the reasons for that. It is also a stretch of epic proportions to equate Eddie with a Newbie. As has been previously pointed out Eddie has well over 6400 posts on MS. If Eddie does turn out to be Town this is stage-setting by OldMan IMO.

Lastly we get the following -

I don't find anything unusual about not confirming in-thread. It's generally much more convenient and faster to confirm through PM, by clicking the reply button and getting on with life. Furthermore, I am pretty sure Eddie Cane was being spiteful about the fact that multiple votes quickly formed on him for the trivial matter of not following the instructions in the PM and failing to confirm in-thread. I don't find the vote on KMD particularly interesting, KMD being the fourth bandwagon vote and his position on the wagon seems rather suspect to me as well. If Eddie Cane and KMD have some history with each other, it would form sufficient basis for an early vote.

Question 1

– if it is much more convenient and faster to confirm through PM why didn’t you do so OldMan?

If Eddie Can is the newbie you’ve tried to sell him as why are you giving him a pass for following the more standard site norms of PM confiming? I’d think someone who you truly believed to be a Newbie would be more in-tune with the mod’s actual request to confirm in thread. Thus I see a disconnect between the logic here and your “policy lynch on a Newb” from the same post.

*nods head* This is essentially correct. I also had trouble understanding the policy lynch aspect. I will say, however, that speed at which that wagon rose was rather suspicious. It doesn't seem to me that a all of the people who voted him up to l-2 are townies. I don't see an rvs wagon, which has not gotten anything under the pressure of the votes, to be entirely town motivated. Scum paranoia of oh, but if we are all of the wagon someone will notice that starts to kick in, as well as the simple calculation that there is a high reward of having a wagon close to lynch, and sense the wagon is of a certain size, hopping on it has a low chance of being deemed unacceptable by the town. I'd expect the wagon to top out around 3-4 players before realposting started at a max.

On to other topics …

Pine

– Are you scum reading me? A simple yes or no is fine if that’s all you want to give.

who cares? Why does it matter what pine thinks of you?

I have never seen any evidence you have the will-power to actually follow through for with this sort of posting for any length of time. Heck I don’t expect it to make it past Day 1.

Roasted

MoI - No? You're fantastic when scum, so I don't thoroughly trust my TR of you. Take that as the compliment it is intended.

Fire - Your head is cozy and warm. But I'm worried you're scum. </3

non-comittal position, complements scum play (leaving open possibility for a lynch).

Another buddy with one hand, possible scum read on the other. He could fall either way....

vote:pine

Indecisiveness in commitments.
Tries to bring non-issues to light early to make out of game content seem real.
Page 6 gut-check.

--- old man wall 145

It is not necessarily a town tell to call someone scum for having an ugly avatar -- the important thing is context. The question is this: Did the manner of which Kison placed his vote indicate a higher likelihood of being town or being scum? In this

specific

game, do you think that scum would be more likely to vote me for having an ugly avatar, and being open about it? Why or why not?

Ohh bullshit arm chair psychologist over here!!! Oh my fucking god. This type of bullshit gambit never works because you never actually know how the person reacts to creepy avatars or not as scum or as town. God damnit. What, are you trying to play some long con, general sort of game where 60% of townies are more likely to vote you? So then that means xyz is player is ever so slightly more likely to be town than scum? Fuck that noise. It isn't like scum players and town players don't do bullshit justifications for avitar votes. You aren't going to be able to tell the difference between a scum justification and a town justification for voting your dumb ass out of the pool of other possible votes. You are just trying to draw attention to yourself with the avi, and tells based on it are not alignment indicative because everyone knows what the stupid thing looks like. so stahp with this asinine asinine line of reasoning.

Is it really now? Firstly, I'd like to point out that this "random" RVS wagon grew to L-2 within the span of 2 pages. Next, it may be no coincidence that Eddie Cane is the newest member in this game and therefore the most vulnerable. If you may excuse me here, there is nothing "random" about this RVS wagon. My position is that this in a devious concoction of plain bullying as well as scum bandwagoners hopping in for an easy mislynch. What's common about this on MS? The burden of proof is on you.

I've explained why I decided to use the choice of the word "newbie" to describe Eddie Cane. I'm not sure if you have simply failed to read my explanation of that point, or if you are actually cherry-picking extremely trivial points to enhance your argument against me, which, if is the case, I'd point the finger at you for being scummy. The conclusion that I am "stage-setting", bluntly put, you are accusing me of regardless if Eddie "turns out to be Town" or scum, is not a good look for you as well.

1) Yes, I agree the real point of interest in this game so far is the fact that the stupid town also put the wagon to l-2 in 2 pages. Who was thinking, "yeah, it's good for the twon if this shit happens and a pure random player is hit with this pressure."? If this describes you in anyway, then we need to take it outside, because that's a degenerate way to start a game. better to have more posts before a strong wagon builds in my honest opinion.

2) NO, Eddie is NOT most vulnerable because he is the newest player to the game. Eddie is most fucking vulnerable because he was put to l-2. Also, rvs wagons are more or less random for the sake of determining alignment. While this game, it could be the case that he was picked because he was the newest player, yet in another game it is you for you bullshit avvy.

3) the point is, why are you defending Eddie over other people?

Self-meta disclosure: I am a far, far better scum player than Town. As Town, I can sometimes manage to be obvTown, but rarely have significantly-above-average scumhunting skills. I'm around par.

All that said, I'm Town here. Hence my drive to be honest and disclose things.

I suck at this game, so don't vote me. lolloloolloolloollololololololoollololo

UNVOTE: Axelrod
VOTE: Old Man

How do you like this one?

I can understand the vote, but you don't give a reason. I expect more content.

[quote="In post 168, Pine"
Chamber, don't be a wuss. Stick around. Most of us like playing with you, even when it gets a little adversarial.[/quote]
this schtihk again. Assuming chamber leaves for some reason to look like showing sympathy. gawd. The worlds smallest violen plays for the swan song you sing for Mr. chamber.

Compared to everyone else, he is a newbie. I'm not referring to "newbie" as in the neophytes who have no idea how to play Mafia in the newbie queue. I have made this very apparent. I mean that Eddie Cane is young to Mafiascum, and it

looks to me that the fast wagon on a player outside of the 'old-player' caste is NOT a mere coincidence

. I do not like it! Have I made myself clear?

I'm here to play mafia, not to find a job in Marketing. You are free to "not buy" what I'm "selling". I have an opinion on the Eddie Cane wagon and I'm making it clear as day.

If you think that this behavior is more likely to come from scum than town, then make your case. If you simply disagree with it, then okay, you are entitled to your own opinion, as am I, but don't pretend that's a valid reason to scumread me when the two are as relevant as apples and oranges.

------





THis game is dense. I will have to return to it with care tomorrow. But I promise a solution. I promise I will finish the read-through.

[Firebringer]

Do you have that much faith in Eddie's scumhunting abilities??

I am part of the Eddie Cane fan club.

We meet every Tuesday.
You can join but you will need to bring a sombrero.

I feel same way about this game as you do but instead of thinking about pulling out Xbox. I do.
Also working on my small coding projects as well as thinking about how to improve processes at place I work.

What’s your current reads btw?
I feel you been giving small pushes more than expressing a lot of thought.

@Cooldog don’t understand anything you said in relation to that quote Alf me. Why would you be primarily lynch target for ur dumb claim? It’s NAI either way and dumb. Unless cop checks you and comes up with guilty not seeing why you would get lynched for it.

Eddie Cane, what up buddy?
I think you had questions for me but I flossed over them or something?
Not sure exactly what they were cause i think I responded to almost anything directed at me.

Really feels like I can only get involved in this game when people say something about me but now I am just ignoring people like insanity and hitogoroshi cause yeah that isn’t trying to engage.

I am better at this when I have a line of dialogue going and not just giving blanket analysis.

Harder to do in this format since there’s no back in forth.

[Firebringer]

i could go for a lynch on hitogoroshi or Tywin if this day gets too long and we compromise between the two.

Don’t really like either of their postings up till now and don’t think I will get any quality read either since I don’t really want to read any of their posts either.

Magna is still better lynch in my eyes since if he is scum he will win at end game scenario. Gonna continue trusting my Cane of Eddie though. He wouldn’t steer me wrong <3

[petroleumjelly]

1.

what if old man is some kind of powerful scum role that they just really need to have alive on night one?

Why bring this up without offering your opinion (or a solution)?

2.)

Jelly, how do you see Eddie's play as nervous? I don't see any way a nervous player intentionally waits on explaining a vote while he's the leading wagon.

His early posts look like active lurking / avoidance; he makes a point to post in the thread, but he does so without offering actual opinions. In particular, he struck me as nervous in Post #83. His reaction was so over-the-top / insulting; I think he was trying to act 'tough' to mask his concern over his wagon.

3.)

I can't tell you what my mindset is, lmao. Engage with Axel or KMD or whoever else has gave a depiction of my thoughts. I've explained my actions very clearly and if that's what you're asking I still don't understand.

Let's try this, then:

->

a.)

Why did you make a joke "confirm" post without any indications in the post that it was a joke (e.g., adding a wink)? Why not just start the game with your Kmd4390 vote?
->

b.)

Why did you fly off the handle in Post #83?
->

c.)

Why did you post so many times without offering any opinions or questions (e.g., "I'm not replying," "I'm waiting... get back to me," "Sigh," "the game finally gets interesting")? Is this a modus operandi for you?

4.)

For the most part I like CooLDoG's catch-up posts so far (though I'm not a fan of the language).

3) How the fuck are you getting all of these complex association tells on page 3?

Pine telling Eddie Cane to "simmer down" is a decent connection-tell in my experience. In my early days, I was caught using it as scum in College Mafia for a similar thing. I told a fellow mafiate on Day One to "take a chill pill". I was promptly called out on it and we were both lynched.

The last example of using this tell that I can recall is in Day One in Mini #1752, when I noticed a player tell another to "straighten up and fly right". They turned out to be scum together.

My conjecture about Axelrod was mostly based on gut.

[Old Man]

Questions to OldMan –

1. Why were the reactions to your claim “disappointing”, what does that say about the possible alignments of those invovled and why didn’t you address any of them other than mine directly? For someone who has been espousing that clarity is important you were very less than clear there.

2. Why do you continue to ask about “meta” for me? Because I will tell you directly I very much doubt you can make any sort of meta read on me that is meaningful. Both Pine and Axel (at least one of which you seem to think is Town) have both said at various points they thought I was possibly Town but are wary of my scum game. That should have been an indication that meta for me is probably pointless but you seem to act as if no-one has given you any information

Hi.

1) Here is the problem. The reactions to my claim say

nothing

about the possible alignments about those involved. It is almost all some derivation of "I am skeptical of the claim, but we won't lynch Old Man today. But, if it is found untrue on Day 2, we will probably lynch him.", then proceeding to vote someone else with weak or even no reasoning at all. I have no way to investigate town thought processes and read trajectory with reactions like these. Therefore, it was disappointing.

Clarity is inevitably sacrificed for conciseness. I am always happy to elaborate on details though, if you request for an explanation if something I said was unclear.

2) I want to know if your behavior in this game is fakeable or not. Your current play is at a level where players who are strong at scum are capable of faking, but can be reasonably town-read if one's scum competency level is just average.

I do not require meta. I just need to "profile" you, just as you "profiled" Eddie Cane, for lack of a better word.

For now, my judgement is that although I can imagine you living for the first few days due to general competency, I don't think it would be wise for you to live until Lylo.

[insanity018]

@Mod, could we get a votecount?

Kmd's "catchup" 270 feels like just stalling. If that's the gist of the post he supposedly lost, I don't see why he would have been so upset about losing it. And couldn't have posted it earlier.

@Firebringer

- From what I can see, chamber is/was your strongest townread (131). So, why are you now voting Morality?

[Eddie Cane]

i could go for a lynch on hitogoroshi or Tywin if this day gets too long and we compromise between the two.

Don’t really like either of their postings up till now and don’t think I will get any quality read either since I don’t really want to read any of their posts either.

Magna is still better lynch in my eyes since if he is scum he will win at end game scenario. Gonna continue trusting my Cane of Eddie though. He wouldn’t steer me wrong <3

I've asked you the pj questions twice now friend

-> a.) Why did you make a joke "confirm" post without any indications in the post that it was a joke (e.g., adding a wink)? Why not just start the game with your Kmd4390 vote?
-> b.) Why did you fly off the handle in Post #83?
-> c.) Why did you post so many times without offering any opinions or questions (e.g., "I'm not replying," "I'm waiting... get back to me," "Sigh," "the game finally gets interesting")? Is this a modus operandi for you?

a.) I am in denial this is a serious question asked from someone with a decade + of experience.
b.) i didnt "fly of the handle", people dont get to talk down to me
c.) why don't you do a 5 minute skim of any of my games and get back to me.

[Korts]

Vote Count

(2) Eddie Cane - petroleumjelly, Morality
(2) Axelrod - Pine, roflcopter
(2) Tywin Lannister - Old Man, hitogoroshi
(2) Kmd4390 - MagnaofIllusion, Eddie Cane
(2) Pine - Axelrod, CooLDoG
(1) Morality - Firebringer
(1) hitogoroshi - Tywin Lannister
(1) roflcopter - insanity018
(1) Firebringer - Kison

not voting:

Kmd4390

8 to lynch

Deadline is 6 PM EST on Monday the 28th of May.

[Old Man]

Is it just me, or is the deadline in a month?

[Pine]

Nearly. Geriatric rules, son

[Kmd4390]

Does anyone know insanity well enough to know if she fakes this kind of thing as scum?

I don't think I've done anything to justify this read. What do you like about me?

[hitogoroshi]

Thanks to both of you for trying to undermine my

very subtle

attempt to encourage Cooldog to post as much as possible Day 1.

actually gonna bite back a bit hard on this, scum love the idea that a soft clear for non-behavioral reasons could be muddied up by playstyle, so even if cooldog was hyper lurking (and it looks like it was just the vla and he's fine now) I really don't want us opening that door. believe the claim or don't, but if you do then however he plays doesn't change his PM. townreads aren't cookies we give to the most useful players y'know?

Hito:

Tywin has not really pinged my scumdar at all this entire game, so I'm trying to figure out what you're going after here. Is this accurate?
- Post 99 seems fabricated / fake.
- Fencesitting on Pine/Eddie, low post:content ratio, maybe they're probably scum together.
- Going after the Eddie voters while having Eddie as a null read.

Mostly accurate, but for the last, it's really because of *how much* his views draw off going after the Eddie voters. i.e it wouldn't really be a scumtell in a smaller dose.

PJ

: Let's say I'm buying what you're selling about Pine<-->Eddie but I think that Tywin, Pine, Eddie is the best order to test the theory in (and stopping to re-evaluate if we ever mislynch, obviously). That get you on board the Tywin wagon?

[MagnaofIllusion]

actually gonna bite back a bit hard on this, scum love the idea that a soft clear for non-behavioral reasons could be muddied up by playstyle, so even if cooldog was hyper lurking (and it looks like it was just the vla and he's fine now) I really don't want us opening that door. believe the claim or don't, but if you do then however he plays doesn't change his PM. townreads aren't cookies we give to the most useful players y'know?

And as respectively as possible - no. PGO isn't a "soft clear" role. His handling of the claim and acknowledgement to be wiling to be lynched before LYLO is Town play but he can NEVER be slotted as Town for his claim. I've stated I was going to give him 2 days to bust his butt assuring me he is Town with his play. So encouraging him to post is part of me wanting him shining as Town if he is Town ASAP. Frankly I really find the whole tone of this well off hito.

What is it that the kids do these days ....

::

Is that it?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Still happy with the placement of my vote.

Firebringer’s “MoI is the best lynch now because he would win in a LYLO situation” further makes me think he’s more likely scum. It’s an absurd argument and it feels like he is grasping at reasons to justify his read when questioned on it.

My response to OldMan’s discussion at 287 I will keep very concise.

1. There is as discontinuity in saying that people jumped from his wagon with “weak or no reasoning” and not drawing conclusions from it (they could be scum who don’t actually have reasons) or going after said players. He did neither and basically is pretending that’s unreadable behavior.

2. I also think the second part about “wanting meta from others” is scummy coming from someone who earlier stated that the burden of proof of meta is on the accuser in relation to others having requests. Why didn’t he read my most recent scum games and come to a conclusion himself? It’s not hard to look at my threads, get a summary of my alignment in those games and do some research on how I performed.

Obviously not voting there today but not letting what I see as suspect play not be pointed out in case his claim dissipates tomorrow.

--

Kmd's "catchup" 270 feels like just stalling.

Then vote him and get some momentum to that wagon. Your Rofl suspicions are noted but that wagon isn’t going anywhere IMO.

[Tywin Lannister]

Oh God. It's only been 2 pages, but every post is a novel. We need some player-led standards set here. Can't expect Kort to do it all. Catching up though, so prodge

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh God. It's only been 2 pages, but every post is a novel. We need some player-led standards set here. Can't expect Kort to do it all. Catching up though, so prodge

Reading is not a hardship. Perhaps the only post on this page that MIGHT be considered tough is Cooldog's and frankly I think that is even a stretch.

[hitogoroshi]

And as respectively as possible - no. PGO isn't a "soft clear" role. His handling of the claim and acknowledgement to be wiling to be lynched before LYLO is Town play but he can NEVER be slotted as Town for his claim. I've stated I was going to give him 2 days to bust his butt assuring me he is Town with his play. So encouraging him to post is part of me wanting him shining as Town if he is Town ASAP. Frankly I really find the whole tone of this well off hito.

If your town read is for him saying he'd be lynched before lylo and not the PGO claim itself, then sure, that read can flex. To me that seems "bundled up" with the claim in that I can't imagine someone claiming PGO and then throwing a hissy fit about being lynched pre-lylo - it's pretty cheap to promise something so far in the future - but I guess your read was still behavioral.

I just bring it up because the idea of using the townread or lack thereof to "encourage" pro-town behavior gets really dangerous really fast. Reads should be a reflection of which kind of PM you think a player's got and that's all. so it's fine if you earnestly believe cooldog is likely scum if he doesn't post and likely town if he posts a lot. I just want to make sure we don't have a town where we conflate what we want people to do with what alignment they are because I was guilty of that a lot in my mafia youth and it loses winnable games. that's all.