Large Normal 212: Korts' Geriatrics - Game Over @1831

[Ginngie]

Okay i literally have town cased ya boi Lycan

So if we could fuck off of that wagon, stellar

Now all those wagons 2 votes and under

Stop being the vanity voters and finish this day

Tammy, you’re involved enough to where you should be confident in putting a vote down, i don’t want to see anything non-committal

[Pine]

*crickets*

I'll vote Axel or Hito. Or maybe Fire.

[Ginngie]

Is obviously rather you Axel

What’s stopping you

[Eddie Cane]

I'm back, catching up later. Sorry.

[Pine]

Is obviously rather you Axel

What’s stopping you

I am on Axel.

[Ginngie]

[Kison]

Sorry for not being around more. Any accusation of me "flying under the radar" is fully deserved as every time I've tried to spend more than 5 minutes on this game this past week I have been pulled away.

Anyway. I'm still deciding whether I want to move to Axel. At this point I am leaning towards yes. I think he's one of the better lynches for the day & I am skeeved out by my company on the Lycan wagon. I know we're getting close to deadline but a few things that popped up while I've looked over this the past several days:

So, this is just my biggest concern about Magna, who I have a lot of respect for as a player, and it's that he's been kind of pushing some weak cases, and some of his reads just seem off to me.

Which weak cases do you think Magna is pushing? Which reads seem off to you? Did any of this bother you before he decided to vote you?

MoI:

My main reluctance in switching is MoI going from "I will not vote Axel today" to doing just that. Magna, I don't get an overwhelming sense of confidence in you scum reading Axel in

638

, but rather less confident in your town read from earlier in the game & semi reluctantly moving in order to consolidate votes. Would you say this is accurate? How would you line him up against Lycan/Tywin? Lastly, I see you played with Axel in Clash of Kings: would you say his scum hunting here differs from that game, where he was town?

[Tammy]

Tammy, you’re involved enough to where you should be confident in putting a vote down, i don’t want to see anything non-committal

[Eddie Cane]

Do you have experience with either him or Lycanfire?

Tywin has always been a wall poster and I have a hard time caring about wall posters that are not mastina. What I do know is I agree with what you're saying about the general scummy-vibe because my past experience was with him in real folks blues 2 as scumbuds together.


Lycan I've had a couple of games and seen him play one in which I modded.

One thing I've noted in Lycan's scum play is that he can actually plan a lot and decide what moves to make in his head (via discussing it within a PT), but following through with his plan doesn't really happen. He kinda just sits there in the middle of the river as things go past him.

Also I remember Lycan as town being blunt as hell and I town read him for his honesty before. I don't remember reading lycan's post this game because I got bored reading the slog of wall posts past page 12 but I can ISO

This game feels an awful lot like shitting in a river

One thing I've been rolling around are people like rofl or pine who've just been Tywin's town or is fine when like he just reads so scummy. And I'm not typically a person who thinks you have to see exactly what I'm seeing, so it's not that, but it just feels weird. It's hard to determine what any of that could mean, if anything, until we have a flip or two there but it's on my mind right now.

Some people just townread a lot of words. If you do, you probably townread Tywin by default. Otherwise, he should pretty much always be scum or lynchbait, he's one of the scummiest players I've seen. Reflecting back this is more reminiscent of his scum game (which I haven't played with) than his town (which I have twice).

One thing I did realize the other day is that I've thought most people seem fine. I think the only people I haven't said are fine are insanity, tywin, pine, pj and kmd. I think. So I need to get a better handle on how I actually feel about people.

I have this problem. Too many townreads. Like, I want to townread Rofl on gut/town but logically he's just scum doing garbage pushes.

Also I am getting bored because I want Tywin/Lycan to flip but certain players are either stalling the day to its maximum one-month deadline or are trying to form counterwagons, which I will proceed to prosecute tomorrow after Lycan's alignment is revealed.

Can you sum up what makes you so certain he's scum?

[Eddie Cane]

i completely do not care what tywin/lycan are even posting they could have posted a million ascii dicks and it would still be a day one mislynch wagon

lol

i'm so excited for old man to "refuse" to pop the ic tomorrow so we can hang him

a more sideyed lol

tammy post 627: it is so weird that rofl doesn't see tywin as scummy like i do

so tywin is scummy? i dont get your stance

like seriously i really want to trust my tammy townread but ffs stop pushing what you basically just admitted is a village idiot lynch

"this guy always looks scummy perfect day one lynch amiright?"

i am not on tywin,

what makes him town? unless you're just nullreading him and saying that makes him 75% (ish cba calculating) likely to be town?

Also Rofl is still Town and 633 reaffirms that for me. And Eddie’s vote for him at 604 stinks.

maybe he shouldn't do shit pushes and votes

[Eddie Cane]

633 reaffirms that for me.

how does this reaffirm anything?

Nothing personal Eddie but I have a hard time believing this and at the same time buying in to your self-provided stance that you are one of the best players of your generation on site.

Also the bolded I can’t connect with at all as coming from Town. I relish having scum make garbage cases against me as Town as it makes my job that much easier in finding and hanging them. Not stressed. And the repetition should work on similar lines because Appeal to Repetition is a thing. And hell even if you think PJ’s slot is bad Town a garbage case isn’t going to move the meter without scum having to get their hands very dirty to push a mislynch behind it.

skirt skirt: Eddie Cane/skirt skirt is by far the undeniably best scumhunter in this group. He is competent and he is one of the only players on mafiascum who is still capable of making good solid reasons when he is providing his reads. As a result, he is a huge threat. However, he is rather prone to insulting players. We're not going to get him ejected from the game and even could we that would be a deplorable strategy to try and employ, but what we CAN do is get him emotional because when he is emotional he is compromised. His charisma can go downhill fast, especially when he is stuck with people who won't listen. Still, the best solution for him is to nightkill him.

You're a player who loves and excels at being scum, it makes sense you'd love the rush of getting cased. I hate being scum. I am aware of my flaws as a player and being emotional is probably the second biggest (after being an asshole). I have a hard time believing you've never played with good players that don't love getting pushed.

Still feel KMD is scummy but getting no traction there.

This would be more likely to track with me than an Axel vote.

So there you go, let's vote hito. Axle is a toss-up wall poster to me, half the shit he says I agree with, the other half I don't.

How caught up are you?

[Eddie Cane]

Eddie - What do you teach?

Didn't mean to ignore this! I am 19, I tutor but whenever I'm not busy with work/Uni I help out in the local elementary school, usually grade 5. Emergency subbing, lunchroom helper, etc, they find ways to pay me. I probably want to teach high school later on. For now, I'm majoring in psych technically.

Ginngie - I noticed earlier that you have Eddie Cane in your signature. Why haven't you been interacting with him?

That's a team mafia bet by the way. I don't know Ginngie outside of having played 3 or 4 games together.

Why do you think he's actually town???

this

Magna - My vote is where it is because I didn't do the traditional unvote when I replaced in. As for your bolded on Eddie - I understand why you would think that coming from your point of view, but as someone who has had some pretty bad emotional reactions to cases made on me by people I think are scum, I don't think it's necessarily scum indicative. It's not logical and it's not good play, but sometimes emotions don't make sense. I guess I would see it as scum if he thought in this player list playing up his emotions would get him town read, but I think he has to be aware it would be the opposite here so it's not a good scum strategy. All in all it's probably more personality dependent than alignment dependent.

Yup. This is not the playerlist to AtE in, this is a playerlist that would just policy lynch you. One of my pregame analyses.

And Ginnnnngie - You say that you have Lycan as town, but you also said that as scum he lets the game go by him even though he has plans for what to do. Does the fact that he hasn't posted for four days, even though he's been on site, sound anything like him just letting the game go by him or?

This sub in might be the best I've ever had in game I've played. Turned a scummy ass slot into one I'm mindmelding a ton with.

-Insanity still town-

You said Axel and Insanity are both town. How'd you get there? You continually rate Insanity high in your readslists but all I see are pings in 156. Show me the way!

Hurry up and catch up properly loser I've explained it at least a bit.

Stop telling everyone that I'm good at scum. I have a 0% winrate as scum. All this shit does is make people doubt me for no reason. You did this in Restrictive Mafia and distracted me from scum.

hahahaha

but if you took my advice in TM you wouldn't be so lynchbaity

[Eddie Cane]

Lycan, I've repeatedly explained my "interference" with Chamber. I did not feel it was a valid, AI line of questioning. I felt it was kicking at an easy target while he was down.

What? Everyone

wasn't

being perfectly pleasant to me? Blasphemy! /s winky face

Are you actually caught up? Because either you have an absolute lack of grasp on the game-state if you are caught up or you actually need to read. Axel isn’t getting lynched without the equivalent of him claiming scum or a daycop claim. There isn’t any momentum there. 12 days at the pace of a Geriatric game is much shorter than you seem to be hinting here.

FUCKING RICH

WHEN

VOTE: Axel

40 MINUTES LATER HE FUCKING VOTES HIM

Why would you seriously ride my ass like that just to go on and vote him? That's bloody stupid

hahaha

I have two more posts too.

VOTE: Ginngie

Shadoweh pretended to be drunk in Team Mafia and was scum. I called her on it. Currently a flawless tell.

yea hahahaha do you remember me telling you to literally call shadoweh out

when will people realize being drunk doesn't make you type like that...

UMMMMMMMMMMM pretending to be drunk scum tell? I'm in an alternate universe someone save me. I feel like I remember Thor using that tell years ago on town if I might add. BZZZZZZZZ Not an actual tell. If Ginngie's scum it's not because she's drunk right now.

I have an "annoying" scum tell that has a high accuracy rate, like 75% (3/4) so far. certain kind of annoying. I can confirm thats a legit thing from our tm discord chat LOL fun times

Eddie is your rofl vote just because you don't agree with his reads or is there more I'm missing or forgetting?

to express disapproval of his axel vote mostly. disappointed nobody else joined. i'm still not willing to vote axel.

(tbh haven't focused on at all: KMD, insanity, Eddie)

exqueeze me

I do have a weak town read on firebringer. The difference between my reads and yours may be as simple as that I try not to have null reads. I like to be able to say one way or the other even if it's very weak or just gut.

ye same



god reading this game is a slog i'll continue later

[roflcopter]

excuse me while i continue to townread eddie, lynch axel without him and give no shits about what he thinks of me

[Pine]

Attaboy

[CooLDoG]

v/la till staurday in order to move

[Axelrod]

omg I am in such a foul mood right now, and this game isn't doing anything to improve it. It feels like trying to argue with a bunch of Trump supporters.

[Pine]

What do you mean.

Do you not think Making America Great Again is worthwhile? Are you a pinkohippist Commie like Crooked Shillary?

/CoolDog

[Axelrod]

But, that makes no sense at all?

MAGA!

It's like the opposite of what he said?

MAGA!

I mean, like, dude, just look at it?

MAGA!

[Axelrod]

Which weak cases do you think Magna is pushing? Which reads seem off to you? Did any of this bother you before he decided to vote you?

Town – Tammy, Cooldog, PJ’s slot, Pine, Rofl, Axel, Kison
Nullish – Eddie, Hito
Scum – OldMan, Firebringer, KMD, Insanity, Lycan

I strongly disagree with his "Town" read on Pine, and "PJ's slot". Neither of those people has done anything to merit a Town read, much less a strong town read, and have, in fact, been actively scummy. He ought not be hard town-reading rolf or you either, frankly, but reasonable minds can disagree on what constitutes a strong town tell.

I also disagree with the scum reads on Oldman and Insanity (to a

much

lesser extent Firebringer. I don't even know why I'm bringing that up, because I don't have any good reason to town-read Firebringer except just a feeling that he wasn't playing like scum would play. And now he's kind of completely checked out again)

And that's not a whole lot of disagreement actually. For D1.

But his decision to sheep rolf here and tack on a few points of his own to try and justify it more is almost unforgivable. I cut him far less slack in this regard than people who just randomly vote people to "make stuff happen" or because it's what everyone else is doing.

The worst case Magna pushed hard was the one on Old Man, which I did talk about it already. And now his "points" to justify the vote on me, which are terrible. BUT I GUESS NOT MORE TERRIBLE THAN ANYONE ELSE'S.

[Tammy]

Was starting to catch up earlier but got called away, so it’ll have to wait until tomorrow.

I have no interest in an axel lynch though!

[Pine]

Y not tho

[Lycanfire]

This is the least fun flaming piece of shit I've ever taken part in.

1) WHY THE FUCK AM I TOLD TO READ THE THREAD EVERY TIME I TRY TO CONTRIBUTE?

2) Why the fuck am I townreading this?

Where are all these "oh but it's already been explained" posts

because guess what

i read up to post 299. taking notes. scoring interactions. who is focusing on who. that's longer than i wanted to actually, because kmd/cooldog were near blank until 270-271 and i had data that was worthless up until then.

i kept going. taking notes from my replace in and from where i was in the thread. these answers never materialized.

Fuck you Moi.

Fuck you Hito.

Fuck you Josh.

I started out trying to contribute, only to be tossed aside by one of the people I townread the most, tunneled on by another person I townread. Who was being tunneled on by someone that can't do anything better beyond tunnel an IC claim and tell me to read the thread. As for who Josh pushes at any given time, I haven't a fucking clue considering he went from shading Hitogorishi to becoming best buds with him.

I spent more time thinking about trying to read this game than I spent actually reading it. I kept being promised answers that never appeared. Here's a hint to not being horseshit town: when you see something scummy, you don't keep reading and trying to sort the person. You put noose around their neck because they legitimately have to die.

The more information you have, the more likely you are to gain a shit read.

I can give numerous examples of how I picked a player out early game doing scummy things as scum and tunnel them. Even worse is getting talked out of it. Do I tunnel towns too? Not nearly as often. Towns town up, scums are scum.

453 Hito "How much of the game had you read when you made this post?"

466 Moi "As to your question to me – I’m going to defer til you actually catch up in the game because the direct question you asked was answered long ago."

505 Hito "Lycan, why would you cast a vote mid-catchup when it was contingent on Pine's answer to a question that might have been answered already?"

703 Josh "Hurry up and catch up properly loser I've explained it at least a bit. "

718 Hito "Lycan, what exactly is your catchup process? It looks like you're still far back because all of the post numbers you cite are pretty low."

Putting on the blinders instead of pausing for a moment to humor me re: my Pine read is proof that there was never any morale for a lynch to land there.

READ THIS POST. If there's any fishy feelings about why my lynch isn't go through (hito sitting his ass on it for no reason, ignoring everything i say) and why Axel is getting votes, look at this in reply to Axel:

It's one thing to be uncertain enough that you're not taking a strong stance D1. That happens sometimes. But you're ALSO not use your vote as a tool to pressure, build consensus, etc.

You're just hanging out on Pine waiting for - what?

Someone else to take up the case you yourself are not "gung-ho" about, gather up a bloc, and take it home? Because otherwise, what is your vote

doing

? In preview-edit I can actually say the same thing about Eddie 540 - I don't like otherwise-engaged players using a long time until deadline as an excuse to cast these dead votes, because just punting until deadline scramble lowers the useful information we get throughout the day and lets people do deadline flops with these low-accountabiltiy asterisks of "well gee, I don't like any of these options, it's a real darn tootin shame that none of the options I like are on the table".

Or maybe to phrase it otherwise, I think it's the goal of town to ensure the lynch is on scum and that they're on it. Would you agree?

Or this remarkably similar post from Moi

Magna, where should my vote be?

We need to be moving towards a lynch. I mean there is time but this isn't a spam-fest game where people put 10 pages on in 3 hours and move their votes every 3 posts.

Look at Lycan / Hito / Axel for me and move wherever you feel is most likely to hit scum. I mean I think Hito is a bad, bad lynch but I think he's actually the leading wagon right now and I think consolidation will tell us something whenever we know more about the alignments of those involved.

Also I really want you to look at KMD separately but I know I'm not getting that lynch today.

I wouldn't expect Moi to tell Pine to self vote here, but I thought TL was an awful lynch and worth

ignoring

until OM validates their claim because of ~~reasons~~? Moi flat out rules out Hito, but whaddaya know

Also Rofl is still Town and 633 reaffirms that for me. And Eddie’s vote for him at 604 stinks.

If shit stinks why don't you vote it?

Also if the Lycan slot is Town I pretty much think 569 should not be overlooked.

LEtS lYNcH KmD TOmORrOw

I can see this as a coordinated effort to rile me up. Frankly I don't know of Pine's experience with me as town. We had a short lived scumgame together that he flaked out on D1. I can see Josh worried enough about me, Moi too to not only go out of their way to ignore my reads, but to make me perceived like a useless, non-productive part of the town. And that's what I exactly was while I was townreading Hitogorishi, until I realized that if I personally feel so bad going through the same nonsense about confirmations, Eddie's wagon, OM's avatar and claim, fire's self imposed post restriction, whether axel vote parking, or kmd vote parking is scummy.

This game has been a game of scum musical chairs.

Everything is brought up in a manner that doesn't actually lead anywhere, but hey,

we need a flip!

Look at PJ's ISO. This is the ISO of a townie that got played.

I have read through Pine's posts multiple times now, and I am legitimately not seeing it. He has been blindly defending you from pushes and has attacked those who attacked you (and invited you to vote chamber with him). It is no surprise he does not find the confirmation pushes to have any merit, since that would just make himself look bad. He first asked you to "simmer down," which was then later followed by Post #144, which reads as a second not-so-subtle attempt to request that you be less adversarial. This isn't sorting; this is advising.

I don't remember why I thought that. Looking back Pine's early stuff still doesn't look scummy to me. He's defending someone he knows is competent from stupid bullshit such as not adding a winkie face to a joke.

But Lycan that data! Valid up to post 299 Hito has no interactions with Pine. Pine has no interactions with Hito. Moi-Pine and Moi-Josh have some of the highest interactions in the game. Look at the interactions with these four and tell me I'm wrong. I think this is the best vote among them VOTE: Moi. I don't mind going back to Pine, but Pine doesn't seem to care about being voted. Cut the head off this hydra.

YES THIS IS A WALL POST. YES EVERY QUOTE IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS THE ONE BEFORE IT. If there's two things I agree on it's that we don't need to make walls back and forth to one another about shit that has already been talked about. Also, we need a flip. Fight me.

[Lycanfire]

what if old man is some kind of powerful scum role that they just really need to have alive on night one?

This is the towniest shit in the world I can see why Pine and Moi went on it

roflcopter i have no idea who you are but don't change your style, it's great

-snip-

It's not about what you think is justified or not. You asked me why I responded differently to two similar cues. I provided my motivations, per request.

Maybe it's just as simple as I'm more patient with my friends, and I get irritated with people I perceive as being dicks.

Like you. Right now.

Ok I was wrong on this

Stop being the vanity voters and finish this day

ginngie i think you're town but you're being sucked into shit reasoning. thanks for the town case but can you vote scum that isn't axel.

[Pine]

Pine has no interaction with Hito and vice versa? False.