Open 725: Jungle Republic - Day 5

[pinturicchio]

Guys I know I'm late to the party but can I have my RVS vote? Pls I love RVS votes

[pinturicchio]

<3

You see, I've been through the desert on a horse with no name and it was great, it felt really good to be out of the rain and there ain't no one for to give you no pain, but after some days that horse abandoned me and left me stranded, so I have an awful memory of that horse with no name.

VOTE: ManWithNoName

'Cause you remember me that bloody horse

[pinturicchio]

-> uglyduck responds to what I said about him, and says he thinks I'm behaving differently from last game, and votes me (I still want him to describe how I'm being different)

@UglyDuck I'm eager to know about this too, it's by far the less random thing I've read on the thread, along with the Espeonage vote on the worst and visceversa

[pinturicchio]

Current lynch pool: Espeonage/UglyDuck/pinturicchio/Draynth

Reason: LAL (Lynch all LURKERS)

It's been more than 2 hours (two and a half even) and they still haven't posted. (One thing I've learnt from Dr Evil is..

Oh cmon how are you not gonna make your lynch pool me Draynth and NM given the player in the game?

This is giving me the worst paranoia I've ever experienced in my entire life

[pinturicchio]

@skitter is Espeonage your partner this game?

[pinturicchio]

-> uglyduck responds to what I said about him, and says he thinks I'm behaving differently from last game, and votes me (I still want him to describe how I'm being different)

@UglyDuck I'm eager to know about this too, it's by far the less random thing I've read on the thread, along with the Espeonage vote on the worst and visceversa

Yeah I absolutely am not going to give details on how I think Skitter is behaving differently at this point. I see no upside to that.

In regard to the point of me asking the question - I just wanted to see who seemed eager to answer.

The upside to that is that there are like four other players (including me) in that last game too, so you giving a solid meta read on skitter could help us to sort her out. I mean, I've been reading skitter's posts so far with special attention and I can't see that much difference between here and the last two games I've played with her.

I think you're town here! This would be the first time I don't scumread you right from the start of the game lol

[pinturicchio]

-> uglyduck responds to what I said about him, and says he thinks I'm behaving differently from last game, and votes me (I still want him to describe how I'm being different)

@UglyDuck I'm eager to know about this too, it's by far the less random thing I've read on the thread, along with the Espeonage vote on the worst and visceversa

Yeah I absolutely am not going to give details on how I think Skitter is behaving differently at this point. I see no upside to that.

In regard to the point of me asking the question - I just wanted to see who seemed eager to answer.

The upside to that is that there are like four other players (including me) in that last game too, so you giving a solid meta read on skitter could help us to sort her out. I mean, I've been reading skitter's posts so far with special attention and I can't see that much difference between here and the last two games I've played with her.

I think you're town here! This would be the first time I don't scumread you right from the start of the game lol

@UglyDuck I think you missed this

[pinturicchio]

Guysssss UglyDuck is absolutely town in this game!! I don't agree with his skitter' thingy but because it's too early to read her, but I have meta reasons to be sure UD's town here!

[pinturicchio]

p-edit: can you provide the meta reasons, pint?

Will your thoughts get progressively better?


Alright. Why would you hold off on voicing your thoughts on how skitter is different until d2, from a holistic pov?

I choose to hold off bc i can. What would myreasons matter at this point?

Quoting only this post 'cause I'm lazy but it's all I need: town!UD is much more sassy and less worried about being under pressure. If UD looks like he doesn't care, he's town. He's much more careful with his wording when scum. Read his ISO and you'll know what I'm talking about. Also, I know he's not faking it 'cause I've scumread him in our three last games and he was scum only in the last one.

[pinturicchio]

Wait, what's a multiball?? I inned to this game without knowing the setup 'cause I'm trying to improve in Mini Games, but at this point seems that everyone's talking about something important

[pinturicchio]

Oh fuck so I can't make my early tinfoil hat theories 'cause reading associations would be a mess?! I'll have to use a bigger hat this game.

@skitter uuuh no, I'm townreading UD lol if I was scumreading him it would affect it since I wouldn't know if he's a wolf or scum, but he's still town no matter how much scum is in this game.

Thanks @AP and @HorseWithNoName, I think this was not the best game to try to improve my skills

[pinturicchio]

Okay, AP, I have a plan. I's a good one, too.

We tell everyone that it's a full moon tonight and the moon is about to come up. Then, we watch the reactions of everyone here. If someone seems nervous and starts trying to get out, we lynch them.

What do you think?

Hey, that's an AWOOOOsome plan!!

I-I mean awesome! Awesome plan!

[pinturicchio]

Just ask me anything you want to know.

Daddy Yankee

is here all day to oblige.

Vi que tu mirada ya estaba llamándome
Muéstrame el camino que yo voy

[pinturicchio]

Just ask me anything you want to know.

Daddy Yankee

is here all day to oblige.

Vi que tu mirada ya estaba llamándome
Muéstrame el camino que yo voy

I don't speak Mexican

If that's the case... Thou shalt not use Daddy Yankee's name in vain

[pinturicchio]

Ok I'm back. I have an experiment: if you're town, reply saying "I'm town". If you're not town, say "I'm not town". This is a bit risky but it could work

[pinturicchio]

Ok I'm back. I have an experiment: if you're town, reply saying "I'm town". If you're not town, say "I'm not town". This is a bit risky but it could work

Well, I see my strategy didn't work at all; that means I'll have to read the thread...

The good news is... it's muffin time!

[pinturicchio]

Oh, it's skitter 1v1ing Sando, that will take some time. Is there someone here who I can chat with?

[pinturicchio]

I can talk to you. What do you think about the worst's case on Espeonage

[pinturicchio]

out of sheer respect skitter, I assume you've thought through this at more levels than I have.
humour me with a few answers wrt 73 because it is 120% unadulterated reaching horse shit.
(ily Espe)

alrighty ducky, lets have a chat. bc you have a case of dumbs I'm not used to.

assumption having a case of the dumbs = scum is bad strike 1

Hypothesis: You are ignoring that me being lazy is NAI because of a resounding OMGUS.

I see scum motivation in jumping onto bad reasoning the way he did.
I don't see town motivation in jumping onto bad reasoning the way he did.
how is this NAI?

Supporting Evidence: In a multiball you need to focus on not falling behind and avoiding lynches because it is easier to towntell.
Conclusion: You are jumping on something you don't believe in because you feel it is good scum play day 1 of a multiball.

what am I jumping on that I don't believe?
Espe was either 1) being sarcastic with his vote, which means he was literally doing this... OR
2) his vote was serious in which case I can't see town motivation in it.

I mean this post btw

[pinturicchio]

Well I can't ask you about your own case so I'll have to chat with you about something else:

Why are you townreading Draynth? He's going under the radar, exactly like the last game we played were he rolled scum. Me no likey

[pinturicchio]

You flaking aussies come here and talk to me! If you leave me alone you'll regret... You better run, you better take cover

[pinturicchio]

I can talk to you. What do you think about the worst's case on Espeonage

Weak, and the interaction is why I'm not TRing duckling.

I also did not like Espe's posts, but for different reasons than duckling has posted. It also doesn't strike me as TvT, but then nothing this game has so...

But in a world where you had to chose a side and in one side is duckling and in the other is Espeonage, who would you chose? This is for academic purposes, since I don't think duckling vs Esp is not TvT, I'm still trying to sort that out

[pinturicchio]

But in a world where you had to chose a side and in one side is duckling and in the other is Espeonage, who would you chose? This is for academic purposes, since I don't think duckling vs Esp is not TvT, I'm still trying to sort that out

If I had to shoot between those two I'd shoot duckling based on him not playing to the town-meta I have of him.

Plus duck is tasty.

Yeah I'm not good at reading duckling so I'll be asking this a lot.

I need your word about Draynth too. I'm biased because my last finished game is with scum!Draynth on it and I don't know how town!Draynth plays. From someone who hasn't played with Draynth, what are your thoughts on him?

[pinturicchio]

My case on Espe was 'why I think that post is bad' more than 'why I think he is clearly scum'. I don't see any reason to townread him or like the post. I also don't have much of a read on him.

More than anything I was surprised HOW different skitter's pov on it was.

I like this post a lot, helps me understand your reasoning.

Could you talk about Draynth's reasoning being different here? The Sando and UD thingy was a weird thing to approach.

[pinturicchio]

I need your word about Draynth too. I'm biased because my last finished game is with scum!Draynth on it and I don't know how town!Draynth plays. From someone who hasn't played with Draynth, what are your thoughts on him?

Never played with him, but he strikes me as a scummy lurker. His post about me and UD being scum was ill-considered and he hasn't responded to criticism of that. The lack of content gives me a lack of insight obviously, but twas him bringing up this whole thing about me and UD not reading the role PMs and opening post, so for him to subsequently stay quiet strikes me as scum setting something up for townies to kill themselves over.

Yes yes this is exactly what I see coming from him. I'll give him a pass since this time it really could be IRL business but FoS on him definetely

[pinturicchio]

Wait duh I know how to solve this:

UglyDuck, whenever you come back and read this, please tell me what you think about Draynth

UD is town this game and he was scum with Draynth last game; knowing another player's alignment from the start helps to sort that player from the begining in another games.

[pinturicchio]

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=10185966#p10185966]
I honestly thought his initial observation (it was him that prompted me to look into the opening post more closely and find the explicit statement about NKs) was a joke, and I responded accordingly I thought. He then found me and UD scummy, which as I said, makes not so much of the senses.

It's caused a bit of a shitstorm, and as town in said shitstorm it says to me it's not a very scummy shitstorm (I'd say no more than a single scum in here), and the original creator of the shitstorm has nothing further to say on it...[/quote]
Hmmm I disagree with two things you're saying here: 1. Yeah, if you thought it was a joke and then he said you and UD both were scummy because of this, it makes no sense; but if it wasn't a joke, it's a consistent read on both of you. But being consistent is NAI at this point of the game, and not making sense is NAI too at this state; 2. Saying that HE caused the shitstorm is a little convenient coming from you, since you and UD talking about the scum could easily be scum faking a townslip (I personally don't think this is the case, but it could be). What I mean is: if you go and try to kiss a guy's girlfriend and that guy hits you in the face, who caused the shitstorm? I mean yeah it could be a misunderstanding and in reality you weren't trying to kiss the girl, you were reaching to her cheek 'cause she had this awful and weird stain and you were trying to clean her so she wouldn't be embarassed, but his boyfriend thought wrong and punched you; from the guy's perspective, you created the shitstorm. You get what I'm saying? I'm just too tired and should be sleeping I know

[pinturicchio]

I honestly thought his initial observation (it was him that prompted me to look into the opening post more closely and find the explicit statement about NKs) was a joke, and I responded accordingly I thought. He then found me and UD scummy, which as I said, makes not so much of the senses.

It's caused a bit of a shitstorm, and as town in said shitstorm it says to me it's not a very scummy shitstorm (I'd say no more than a single scum in here), and the original creator of the shitstorm has nothing further to say on it...

EBWOP this is what I was quoting, nice job Pin

[pinturicchio]

Hmmm I disagree with two things you're saying here: 1. Yeah, if you thought it was a joke and then he said you and UD both were scummy because of this, it makes no sense; but if it wasn't a joke, it's a consistent read on both of you. But being consistent is NAI at this point of the game, and not making sense is NAI too at this state; 2. Saying that HE caused the shitstorm is a little convenient coming from you, since you and UD talking about the scum could easily be scum faking a townslip (I personally don't think this is the case, but it could be).

Don't think you're disagreeing with me on (1), it was merely an observation from me, I don't draw and scumclusions about the joke part.

I'm not trying to take the focus away from me/MWNN/Skitter and my role in it, I'd like more attention on it tbh, but his post was the impetus for what happened. Sure if I go kiss his GF he's got a right to be angry, but it's a bit weird if he says "oi that's not cool mate" and then wanders off while he lets others deal with me.

Not saying I'm not kissing his GF, but it's weird that he's made a feeble "oi mate, not cool" and then left others to fight his battles.

Oh I get your point now, good job following the example. Yeah that's odd, it's like he doesn't even care about his girlfriend.

Ok thanks Sando you can go back to your tvt with skitter if you want

[pinturicchio]

Not saying I'm not kissing his GF, but it's weird that he's made a feeble "oi mate, not cool" and then left others to fight his battles.

I also think our metaphor is getting thin at this point

Well the metaphor wasn't good but you got my point and I got yours so if it's stupid but it works, it ain't stupid

[pinturicchio]

if it's stupid but it works, it ain't stupid

QFT

I had to look what QFT meant in urban dictionary and the first example says

"cosco is a great place to buy bulk tinfoil for making hats"

.

Coincidence? I think not

[pinturicchio]

I have played with scum!the worst and this feels different to me. I will say, though that we have an astounding record of never both being town. I don't really know lots about the worst's town game because of that.

I also just don't feel like metadiving to read his town games again.

I'm kind of lazy posting this game which is why I signed up on an alt rather than my main, and metadiving is very tryhard. Anyone want to show me examples of how the worst is different from town games? My gut says this is not scum, but it doesn't exactly scream town.

I've never played with scum!the worst, but he seems to be very conscious about selfmeta; that's why I'm always paranoid about him. BUT! I've seen that in our games where he's town, he usually talks about self meta in the early game. I'd have to read a scum!duckling game to see if he does the same, but for now I'm not going in that pool, I'll drown if I do.

[pinturicchio]

--- So the weird thing here to me is that he puts both me and Sando in this pool. But like... if we are both skum faking that we don't understand... ect. that doesn't really make sense. seems paranoid.


There is not a lot to go on here but what I would say is that -
The Skum!Dray I played with stood behind the lines, but at least when they spoke they made an attempt. This kind of just seems lazy. Really don't know to be honest. If this is also Town!Dray then I guess I wouldn't mind lynching here if the content is never going to increase, but all in all I am always against LAL lynches on D1 based on the information it provides for the subsequent days (so yah, free info... lurk against me when you are skum).

I was going to reply you that I didn't agree with the lazyness, but Draynth has posted more after this and I think I can see what you're saying. There was a lot to skim but he focused almost entirely on Sando's pressure on him; in his scumgame he usually ignored what people thought about him.

[pinturicchio]

Ok thanks Sando you can go back to your tvt with skitter if you want

Why do you think it's TvT?
Sando said he didn't think it was.

I was townreading skitter before the 1v1 with Sando (I've played two consecutive games with town!skitter and I've seen nothing that pinged me as "different"), and the way Sando approached the 1v1 seems to be coming from town; saying things like "this seems to be a TvS" is something that town would say in the heat of the moment; scum KNOWS if that's a TvS. I'm not convinced on town!Sando and I see that skitter has some pressure on her, but skitter had this same kind of pressure on Newbie 1859 and she was town there so idk

[pinturicchio]

I like Draynth so far. I think he's town.

CJ I think I've scumread you in every single game I've seen you playing and this might not be the exception if you keep doing posts like this

[pinturicchio]

Wait, what?? Scum can lie???? That's so unfair!

[pinturicchio]

Right now I'm divided on N_M. Would rather wait for a flip to decide. (He "half" towntold)

I know nobody asked me but I agree with this statement

[pinturicchio]

/in
VOTE: Draynth

[pinturicchio]

Hey

[pinturicchio]

Hey guys, UD is still town, people don't change their role in the middle of a game or at least in this game they can't, and guess what: unless UD decided to replicate his town game perfectly, the most simple explanation to his behavior is that he roled town.

Espeonage, in the other hand...

[pinturicchio]

Also what's up with Draynth's replacement? That slot is probably scum too, we need him here

[pinturicchio]

But he's fun as hell

[pinturicchio]

UNVOTE: Fumuki

I'll give the time to interact you're asking for, but please read your own slot and tell us what you think about it

[pinturicchio]

Oh and hi to Ceejay as well

btw

Rolled red or yellow here?

This might be a "NotWolf!slip" since wolf is not yellow in this game, by the way

[pinturicchio]

YOU'RE GETTING MARRIED IN 468 DAYS?!?

I'm gonna put a reminder in my phone just in case were still in touch then!

It's really easy to remember because when we got the day before labor day, the date is actually 9/1/19, so it's a palindrome.

dude you're the best I just noticed it was a palindrome when I put it in my calendar. it's also 24 days before my 26th bday..... for what that's worth.......

Sorry I'm catching up and saw this and had to say: my 26th bday is on 9/9/19 :O omg duckling we're so close!

Also I think I know who the horse with no name could be and if he is, this game became 10 times better

[pinturicchio]

actually thats a thought

seer only gets ww/not ww results right?

Yes.

And thanks to you all, people actually generally know on my main as well, because I pretty freely mention my fiance in several threads, but I don't know I've ever revealed the date.

Yeah you definetely are who I think you are, HYPE

[pinturicchio]

Fuck it, I'll just say it. I'm brassherald

[pinturicchio]

Ok I'm ready, what a long read. I'll say this about Sando vs Fumuki:
I was scumreading Sando on 720 and I could see only after the game was over that he was a powerful townplayer with good strats; I was scumreading Sando in this game based on that other game but I couldn't say it 'cause that game wasn't finished, but now that I know that Sando was town there, I think Sando is town here too, so I don't agree with Fumuki about Sando being different. I like that Fumuki pushed Sando tho, since it's not... let's say, the "easy mislynch". What I mean with this is that he could've joined the duckling's wagon or not push anyone at all, but he went for Sando who I consider a strong player. Haven't played with scum!Sando so maybe I'm wrong about that, but I think his townplay was solid on 720.

Conclusion: townreading Sando, less scumreading Fumuki's slot but I still have a gutread on Draynth so...

Now about the whole setup speculation I really don't give a crap since I'm not good at that, I'm good at townreading people and towning myself up so what up. This caught my attention tho:

Btw let's all stop speculating on wolf strats pls. Lets not give the wolves a free "How to win Jungle Republic" manual.

I know both Fumuki and sando were talking about wolf strats more than the other two factions, but they talked about optimal strategy of the other factions too. This pings me, pings me a lot I say. Let's play a game called "have you met wolf!CJ?"

Hey! Have you met wolf!CJ?

VOTE: ceejayvinoya

[pinturicchio]

Ok so to summarize and finish this nonsense:

Yes, ideally, Wolves should shoot Mafia and act like serial killers here; that's good for them and for town

Town ideally would lynch Wolves today but without associations we can't tell if someone scummy is Mafia or Wolf; there has been some slippery slips that could discard some players from one or another (Fumuki is probably not Wolf, Sando is probably not Mafia)

Now can we go on with the game? @Sando and @Fumuki get over it, if you won't agree there's nothing good coming out of that conversation; if you want to discuss about the setup, do it at the end of the game or somewhere else, but the game will stagnate if it goes on and on about this topic only.

@Espeonage will you explain your reads at some point?

[pinturicchio]

What I was arguing is that mafia and ww are going to be ridiculously hard to tell apart.
If we all agree lynching town is worse than lynching scum.

Then isn't it the most obvious thing in the world that we prioritise lynching scum. And that by inhibiting your pool to your own interpretation of how one side will act, you increase the chance of a misslynch.

Yes, this exactly. Now pleaaaaase back to the game, town is lurking and that's bad 'cause scum gets the chance to lurk without being scumread because town is doing it too

[pinturicchio]

If you're killing time let's jam. Anything you want to talk about? I liked our earlier interactions, and as I said before, now that 720 is finished, I think I'm talking with town!Sando

[pinturicchio]

If you're killing time let's jam. Anything you want to talk about? I liked our earlier interactions, and as I said before, now that 720 is finished, I think I'm talking with town!Sando

Sure, I feel like Espe's view on WW/Mafia hunting has moved. It was "lol you can't regular scumhunt" and is now "lol idiots you can't tell between Scum and WW". To me this feels like trying to get away from previous (bad) theory and now trying to look like the reasonable person.

Thoughts? Am I being paranoid?

Mmmm I actually think there's a conection between those two posts and it is that Espe's frustrated about the gamestate at this point. I feel the same way, so he's trying to cut the conversation. He went in an aggresive manner about the topic, and I believe that he did that not because he really thinks people (aka Fumuki) are stupid, but because he wants to discourage people of talking about said topic. That is pretty consistent.

[pinturicchio]

Yeah sure Fumuki but there are some things that you leave for yourself until you get a better case on someone, that's what fluff posts are for. I mean if you actually get scum on an early read but your case is not good enough, either you get in an awful 1v1 or the guy you're scumreading gets townier and your case is dismissed. You have to give scum some space to feel secure, let them post their thoughts and when they don't see it coming...

WHAM

You make a good case on them. Your case on Espe is basically "he doesn't agree with my theory on multiball, which is good theory, so he has different motivations that I have, so he must be Mafia". I mean, the other thing you're saying about him (that he should agree with you since he was Mafia on another multiball so "he should know") it's all based in that you're forcing people to agree with you; either if you're right or wrong, that's bad.

Aside of all the setup theory, where are your reads? Sando disagreed with you first, "Sando is probably scum"; Espeonage disagrees with you, "Espeonage is probably scum". Where are the other players for you? The ones who are not saying anything about your theory at all, or the ones like me who are dismissing it because they really don't give a damn about lynching either Mafia or Wolf?

[pinturicchio]

Mmmm I actually think there's a conection between those two posts and it is that Espe's frustrated about the gamestate at this point. I feel the same way, so he's trying to cut the conversation. He went in an aggresive manner about the topic, and I believe that he did that not because he really thinks people (aka Fumuki) are stupid, but because he wants to discourage people of talking about said topic. That is pretty consistent.

Ok but I don't really think his original comments were directed at Fumu, in fact he wasn't in the game at that point, but I can see it, next one:

TW seems off this game compared to 720, less jocular, deflecting rather than engaging, that sort of thing. I mean it could be PR vs not PR, but I would expect the opposite in terms of playstyle movement if that were the case.

Yes, I think so too: he seems off compared to any other game that I have played with him, and he was town in all those games. But those things you said (less jocual and deflecting rather than engaging) could be explained on the context of this game being different to those other games; here, he was cased really early on D1 for "being off", so his approach would be different to other games where he was more... let's say, "free as a bird".

What I don't like about Duckling this game is his voting sequence: some of them seems to be rushed and without explanation, even when people is suspecting him, like trying to deviate attention quickly to another wagon.

[pinturicchio]

I think you're scumreading him for having a different game/set-up philosophy and not something actually scum-indicative tbh.

Skitter again dotting the i's and crossing the t's

[pinturicchio]

What I don't like about Duckling this game is his voting sequence: some of them seems to be rushed and without explanation, even when people is suspecting him, like trying to deviate attention quickly to another wagon.

From a personal POV it honestly feels like he's ignoring my vote/comments on him due to knowing I don't really trust my D1 scumreads (I've said it often enough in his presence), and so he can safely ignore me today. Hence my comments to you now. But that could well be me just being a wanker and overstating my own stature.

Well, you do overstate your own stature sometimes, but that's a good point. I jammed with the worst earlier and I remember getting good vibes coming from him so I'll have to check out that again, but even if the original, the one and only, the greatest duckling in the world is scummy today, I think we can sort other people before him.

What's your read on skitter, now that you're not 1v1ing her?

[pinturicchio]

Aside of all the setup theory, where are your reads? Sando disagreed with you first, "Sando is probably scum"; Espeonage disagrees with you, "Espeonage is probably scum".

WOAH WOAH WOAH

COME AGAIN PINTU???

I DID SCUM READ SANDO

BEFORE

WE DISAGREEING IN THE SEER THING

PLUS, I did scum read Espeonage NOT ESSENTIALLY BECAUSE HE DISAGREED with me, but because I think the reason he disagreed not only with me just as well with Sando has SCUMMY INTENTIONS.

I'm repeating this for like...the SIXTH time?

Where are the other players for you? The ones who are not saying anything about your theory at all, or the ones like me who are dismissing it because they really don't give a damn about lynching either Mafia or Wolf?

I think everyone said something about the theories about now, and look at that again later to help your case because everyone, be town, mafia or wolf has a intention in saying what they say. It's not NAI.

You guys can or not give a "damn" about lynching either Mafia or Wolf, but I'm looking preferably for Mafia now, although if I get a Wolf read stronger than my Mafia read I'll try to lynch my stronger read of course.

Anyway Pintu, I don't plan to, specially in a multiball, try so quickly putting slots as town or scum. I'm mostly null on everyone. I'm scum reading Espeonage, town leaning UD and MWNN and I don't know what to do with Sando for now, I'll look at him later, and who knows I'll try to push him again. Dunno.

and you? have better reads?

1. Maybe I didn't express myself clear: that's how it feels, Fumu. It feels like you scumread whoever disagree with your setup theory. You've engaged only the people who have replied your theory; this is like, the first time you engage with me? And I've been here, AP has been here too.

2. Yea sure you do you, if you have better than average reads and can differentiate between two factions on D1, that's great. I don't.

3. If you read my ISO you'll clearly see what I'm doing, who I am reading and what strategy I'm following.

[pinturicchio]

I think we can sort other people before him.

What's your read on skitter, now that you're not 1v1ing her?

I'm comfy with that.

I've felt sandwiched by skitter tbh, where pretty much anything I do is going to get twisted as scummy. I think that's bad town, but again, probably because I toot my own horn a bit much. It's a strategy that won't work on me to get my mislynched, so I'm sticking with town. I don't think the above "oh geez we're STILL talking about this" comes from scum either.

AP, skitter, and Fumu are townie to me
Pintu, CJ, MWNN are my list of townie enough to not be today's lynch.
Espe, TW in my lynchlist with UD bringing up the rear there

Ok I get your frustration, but now you think she's town and that's great.

What's not so great is that our reads are not matching: don't really care about scumreads, but your townreads are weird: why AP and Fumu?

My townreads at this moment are Sando, skitter, UD and myself, so hit me up to see who wants to be which Beatle (I know I know, but someone has to be Ringo). MWNN is Brian Epstein and I'm looking for our George Martin. It's pretty obvious that the Seer will be Ravi Shankar when confirmed.

[pinturicchio]

Actually, the first one who dies on my townbloc will be considered Brian Epstein, and I'm afraid that our beloved townbloc will disolve far before it should because of our grief

[pinturicchio]

@skitter if you want to lynch Sando I'm declaring you the Yoko Ono of the group

[pinturicchio]

What's not so great is that our reads are not matching: don't really care about scumreads, but your townreads are weird: why AP and Fumu?

My townreads at this moment are Sando, skitter, UD and myself, so hit me up to see who wants to be which Beatle (I know I know, but someone has to be Ringo). MWNN is Brian Epstein and I'm looking for our George Martin. It's pretty obvious that the Seer will be Ravi Shankar when confirmed.

APs posts seems generally townie, maybe only deserves "not todays lynched", but yeah...not todays lynch

Fumu due to our 1v1, feels like Quick tbh, but def feels TvT. I'd say almost 100% not wolf due to sheer audacity though.

Why UD in townteam?!

My problem with AP is that in our last game it seemed like he didn't care that much, and he was town there. I agree that his posts have been townie, but I don't know, he's pretty unsortable to me, seems like he can't be metaread at all. I really want to townread tho, our group would be a lot more shagadelic baby!

UD is pretty easy to read when you have already played with him. Even him being scumread by many makes me believe even more that he's town, since I scumread in our first two games together and he was town in both, but he do plays scummy. But when he was indeed scum, in our third game together, it was like "oooooh so this is what scum!UD looks like".

[pinturicchio]

My problem with AP is that in our last game it seemed like he didn't care that much, and he was town there. I agree that his posts have been townie, but I don't know, he's pretty unsortable to me, seems like he can't be metaread at all. I really want to townread tho, our group would be a lot more shagadelic baby!

I mean do you want him in the lynchlist or are we arguing about null->town here?

Oh no no no never in the lynchlist. I'm just trying to sort out who could be my sixth Pokémon as the last slot is always the trickiest because you already have like good coverage of a lot of types both in effectiveness and in resistances, but that sixth Pokémon could change it all.

[pinturicchio]

40% of the game or so is scum. You can't seriously tell me everyone only has one person they want to lynch. That's just bad.

You could vote CJ with me, you know

[pinturicchio]

Some people need to change their "town reads" because they aren't looking good at all.

This statement is awful. Either be more specific and engage with "some people", or don't say anything at all

[pinturicchio]

I want UD as highest scumread. But you are up there worst.

Case on UD? Or like, a summary on why you think he's scum would be enough.

[pinturicchio]

Some people need to change their "town reads" because they aren't looking good at all.

This statement is awful. Either be more specific and engage with "some people", or don't say anything at all

Okay, I'll be specific here:

I'm scum leaning already anyone that is tip-toying to push TW but like saying "he's been scummy hasn't him" almost like waiting to someone start pushing him for a lynch. Now, can you say who those people are?

Hint Pintu, you're one of them.

Hint Fumuki, I knew you were talking about me, that's why I did the first step and called you out for not engaging me. And you're wrong, by the way. I explicitly said that TW being off in this game could be explained by another reasons rather than being scum; that I didn't like his voting sequence; and that I got good vibes from the conversation we had a while ago.

[pinturicchio]

Ok I'm confused. Have I completely misread the last page or so here?

Is UD saying that they're voting me for "reasons" but don't want to say them? There's nothing for him to look for, anyone claiming to know my scum meta vs town meta is kidding themselves, I haven't had scum in a completed game since coming back, and this is currently my only ongoing I'm alive in.

Is UD saying that they voted for Skitter for "reasons" but when pressed about constantly voting people for "reasons" defends the skitter one by saying their "reasons" are no longer valid and they don't scumread them? Cause that doesn't answer the question of why UD is currently just constantly using "reasons".

correct yeah

Ok yes I know that's scummy as hell but ScummyAsHell!UD = town!UD; awkward!UD = scum!UD. He's not being awkward, he's not saying things like "I'll probably get scumread because of this, but...", he's doing the opposite. Either he became another person from one day to the other, or he's town.

[pinturicchio]

Hint Fumuki, I knew you were talking about me, that's why I did the first step and called you out for not engaging me. And you're wrong, by the way. I explicitly said that TW being off in this game could be explained by another reasons rather than being scum; that I didn't like his voting sequence; and that I got good vibes from the conversation we had a while ago.

Hmmm...

So who do you want to push? Ceejay?

I would really appreciate if people were bold with who they want or not to make eat the rope today(and I don't necessarily say it to you), because what I'm seeing is a game state where it's in the "air" the *expectation* of wagoning someone. But no will of starting to push it.

And before anyone ask me why I'm not pushing anyone myself, is obviously because I'm tired as fuck of it. 1v1's are not easy when you're trying to get a lynch in the other person. I've only replaced and did it twice already.

I really don't plan to deathtunnel anyone anymore in this day. I'm fine with the lynch as long as it's someone not looking townie and there's some good arguments supporting it.

I get what you're saying, but I say this in almost all my games: I'm good at townreading town. I told you to check my ISO: I'm looking at who could be town instead of who could be scum, so you won't see me being "bold with who I want to make eat rope" 'cause that's not how I roll. Not everyone will be as loud as you are about your reads, I already told you: the best alternative is letting everyone do what they want to do and then make a case on them; you're just getting tired and frustrated 'cause you're giving your scumreads the tools they need to defend themselves.

[pinturicchio]

@skitter there's a slight difference: I played like Light Yagami in Death Note not knowing that the bad guy was me, so I used logic to think what would scum do in this or that particular situation; here Fumuki is talking about optimal strategy in any Jungle Republic setup. You could take all his posts out of this game, paste them in another Jungle Republic and tadaaa, nothing changes.

@UD you played with Not_Mafia in another game, why is it weird for you what he's doing in this game? Or are you asking 'cause you see similarities with that game? Also could you please put some effort dude I know this is how you play but I think the main reason you're not the biggest wagon in the game is because I'm pushing against it and some help would be useful.

[pinturicchio]

MWNN this is the second time you say someone is at L-1 when they weren't, what are you trying to do? Lure Not_Mafia's vote to get a read on him?

[pinturicchio]

VOTE: Fumuki

[pinturicchio]

Same scumread I made on UglyDuck on Pick Your Poison: "if I'm pushed because of my change of playstyle I'll try to understand" it's pretty similar to "this are my reads, I would understand if I get scumread for them". Also the "change of style" thingy, I've seen it coming from scum (Gamma Emerald in Be Someone Else)

[pinturicchio]

Nope. Read my post above.

Sando had a good point there too. Fumuki agreeing with it says nothing, could be scum backing off a little or town really agreeing.

[pinturicchio]

I mean, the point in common with UglyDuck in our last game is that overcautiousness coming from that kind of posts. Overcautiousness is scummy.

But yeah I'm retracting, I still like more a CJ lynch, but Fumuki is definetely a good slot to consider as scum in this game. And specifically Mafia since he slipped he's not Wolf.

VOTE: ceejayvinibobini

[pinturicchio]

P-edit: sorry Fumuki already retracted, didn't want to make you lose your time

[pinturicchio]

@Pintu: Are you scum here? I have been hard TRing you, but your voting patterns of late aren't exactly convincing me (and I'm not talking about the targets, but more about the timing and composition of wagons).

Before today, last time I changed my vote was like 4 days ago, and today I came back to the same wagon I was before, a wagon that, if I remember corectly, I started. What voting patterns?

[pinturicchio]

Well I remembered incorrectly then

[pinturicchio]

VOTE COUNT - 1.12

ManWithNoName

-

skitter30

-

Espeonage

- ceejayvinoya, AP, UglyDuck, Fumuki

Sando

- , skitter30, ,

the worst

- Espeonage, Ruby Red, Sando

ceejayvinoya

- pinturicchio, the worst, ManWithNoName, Not_Mafia

Ruby Red

-

UglyDuck

-

pinturicchio

-

Not_Mafia

-

AP

-

Fumuki

-

Not Voting

With 12 alive it takes 7 for a lynch and 6 for no lynch.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-05-27 19:17:00)

[/b][/color]

Not that incorrectly, I remembered this

[pinturicchio]

You will be called DuckWithAHat from now on.

You're voting Espe, right? Do you think Espe is more likely to be scum than CJ? (talking about the two wagons specifically)

[pinturicchio]

I'm glad our protagonist is back to this wagon. By the way, Not_Mafia is in this wagon too, so you get the chance to hammer if you want to! Believe me, hammering when Not_Mafia is in the same game feels GREAT

[pinturicchio]

I'm glad our protagonist is back to this wagon. By the way, Not_Mafia is in this wagon too, so you get the chance to hammer if you want to! Believe me, hammering when Not_Mafia is in the same game feels GREAT

Are you going to do this more often? I think CJ is @L-2 (too lazy to actually double check)

Yes he's at L-2, I was checking who was willing to give an intent to hammer just for the sake of it. YOU RUINED IT

[pinturicchio]

But yeah I'm retracting, I still like more a CJ lynch, but Fumuki is definetely a good slot to consider as scum in this game. And specifically Mafia since he slipped he's not Wolf.

VOTE: ceejayvinibobini

CJ feels like 720 tbh.

Back that up, 'cause I don't feel it

[pinturicchio]

Guys I know that creating a speed wagon is fun as hell, but skitter is town and she's one of the lead singers of the band

[pinturicchio]

@skitter there's a slight difference: I played like Light Yagami in Death Note not knowing that the bad guy was me, so I used logic to think what would scum do in this or that particular situation; here Fumuki is talking about optimal strategy in any Jungle Republic setup. You could take all his posts out of this game, paste them in another Jungle Republic and tadaaa, nothing changes.

@UD you played with Not_Mafia in another game, why is it weird for you what he's doing in this game? Or are you asking 'cause you see similarities with that game? Also could you please put some effort dude I know this is how you play but I think the main reason you're not the biggest wagon in the game is because I'm pushing against it and some help would be useful.

Love that you changed your avatar after I said this lol a man of culture

[pinturicchio]

Hahaha I didn't make that connection. You're going down kira

Call me Matsuda, if you know what I mean

[pinturicchio]

Our valorous all-seeing protagonist is okay with a skitter lynch.

VOTE: skitter30

Our valorous all-seeing protagonist seems to be okay with any ongoing wagon an that concerns me, especially when he's voting for town

[pinturicchio]

Saying that me being different could either be scum-motivated or lower-activity-based (it's the latter, thank you for asking - last three weeks of the term + graduation = very very busy)

I mean, I can't really do much about being irl and I don't understand why people are saying I'm being different here.

Skitter honey I think you're no different from our last games and that's why I'm townreading you, but if you yourself believe you're being different, what is that you don't understand? Help me push CJ

To everyone else: let's play some Nash Equilibrium! lynch town!CJ vs lynch town!skitter vs lynch scum!CJ vs lynch scum!skitter.

Let's say for now that you're all wrong and skitter is town... I think lynching town!skitter is really a bad situation for town.

Let's say I'm wrong and CJ is town... has he contributed something to the game?

Let's say you're right and skitter is scum: best case scenario, you're on the right track and this is a great lynch!

Let's say I'm right and CJ is scum... what are we going to do with his slot? Let him live until lylo or something? Let the wolves deal with him?

[pinturicchio]

people I'll be high key pissed off about lynching if you're actually town are like
you, ruby, pint and AP

pardon me for trying here. I don't understand where you think I'm super confident.

I didn't understand what you said ducky, why would you be pissed with me?

[pinturicchio]

I think you're scumreading him for having a different game/set-up philosophy and not something actually scum-indicative tbh.

Skitter again dotting the i's and crossing the t's

@Ruby I have implicitly said why skitter is town, and is exactly the opposite read you're all having on her. The scumcase on skitter is "skitter is off this game" and I think you're all wrong about that; maybe she hasn't posted a big amount of meaningul posts, but the ones she has done are good. Exhibit A: the post I'm quoting (and the "me implicitly saying skitter is town"). Exhibit B: the 1v1 with Sando. That was town!skitter at her finest, and you're all forgetting that because...? There is scum in her wagon, I can see it throw my computer, I can smell it, I can FEEL it.

[pinturicchio]

Lucky shot

Bah!

[pinturicchio]

My reads were on point on this game
Got a little frustrated with skitter assuming CJ was not Mafia 'cause I was pushing him on D1 and then said that I was townreading almost all confirmed town flips, I was hoping she would notice that my reads were good and that CJ was scummy.

GG CJ, you deserve the win! Also AP for the first shot I guess?