SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE

[Nahdia]

TBG really needs to stop talking shop and get back to scumhunting.

Cool, can we start with you?

I hereby declare anyone after this point who makes a post purely mechanical in nature will provoke my eternal ire and I will campaign for their death forevermore.

Straight up throttling discussion on mechanics is absolutely not pro-town in nature, especially when the players involved have already established scum reads. If and when we see flips we don't want to see after today, I'll be looking at you.

I could maybe buy that you're just super interested in scumhunting over mechanics discussion if it wasn't for the end day vote and lack of any engagement with me w/r/t my reads. As it stands it just looks to me like you're attempting to powerwolf your way into silencing discussion that helps the Town.

Color me exquisitely doubtful that this discussion helps town. Straight up creating a mechanics smokescreen to let scum contribute to the tthread without ruffling feathers is not only not pro-town, it's actually very much anti-town. So stop doing it. I've scanned over what you're discussing; it's fucking stupid. No lying about reads. No randoming your slot ratings. Follow your reads, publish your list day 2, lynch people who shouldn't have survived. We're playing mafia, not taking a math test.

[the worst]

I have 3 townreads I like a lot : ]
a few I like less

someone tell me how to feel about DV/TBG or talk to me about it

I am getting Brawl's intentions are genuinely town and wanting to gamesolve. Recent pages have really gotten that to a much better read from when I was liking DV's case.

On that note, I liked DVs case on TBG at the time and felt he truly believed it which means town.

ok sweet I'm not going crazy then

[Punreader]

Starting point:

FINICKY FIVES:

DeasVail
Vaxkiller

UNFORTUNATE FOURS:

NicoRobin
ReubenWasFine

IN-BETWEEN THREES:

Srceenplay

TERRIBLE TWOS:

TehBrawlGuy
PenguinPower

ZOMBIFY THESE ZEROES:

Pine/TwoInAMillion

Continuing on:

DeasVail:

DeasVail is an incredibly talented pun player, and nothing he has done is out of his punrange. In fact, a fair amount of his content is actually the sort I'd expect if he were pun. For the longest time, he was

lower

in my readslist. What actually bumped him up was, in fact, when he gave

his

reads in 307. His Intervention was an incredible step in the right direction.

Though it's not impossible for him to distance/bus and it's a certainty my reads are far from perfect (and thus, that he could be pun that pushes town players I'm punreading), the significant overlap in reads and his explanation of his process all the same was enough to remove him from the lower half of my reads. Altogether, while he has a permanent Vail preventing me from putting him much higher, he is still someone I'd say is more likely town than not.

Vaxkiller:

Vaxkiller also has gone on a rollercoaster in my reads, from a six to a four before I settled on five. To some extent, he Vaxes me; I don't have a reliable way of reading his contribution. However, some of his pushes, while containing some...questionable...reasoning, look like they are genuinely going in the right direction. Not a killer-strong read, but enough that I want to keep him in the game longer.

NicoRobin:

Nico's not reacting in the way I would expect her to if she were town, but I want to wait longer before committing to this, because she also lurks/flakes plenty as town and this could be one of those times. If she does the thing I am expecting her to do as either alignment, I'll have a better handle on her.

ReubenWasFine:

There isn't much here and I have no game experience with Reuben, but Reuben's contributions to this game have been...lackluster. Not condemning, but certainly not endearing.

Screenplay:

Screenplay's contribution this game on the other hand have been somewhat indicative of pun. He is also fairly lackluster, but the difference is I have the experience with him to know that if he were town he

shouldn't

be. None of his contributions in this game have been even remotely endearing, and yet I've seen plenty of content sending up red flags, as early as 106. 108 was hollow as well, with no purpose behind it. His reads such as in 177 are opposite what they should be, and he is someone who I respect as a punhunter. Being on vacation feels like more of an excuse than anything else; he is posting plenty, he is reading everything (both of these are self-evident if you look at his iso), and yet in spite of this he is doing virtually nothing.

TehBrawlGuy:

This is another player I don't have much experience with, but his posting has continued to get worse. I'm having trouble explaining this one at the moment, so I'll try to tackle him in a separate post.

PenguinPower:

No need for me to explain my read here. I can simply recycle what I said on him before.

PenguinPower had an incredibly town entrance, which was natural; there was absolutely nothing artificial or fake in his opening. This earned him the spot as my penultimate townread. Since then, there has been a perfect blend of being lighthearted and scumhunting; he's neither fluff posted nor been super serious. That is exactly what I would expect of him as town. Pending some major change, my townread there is never shifting its strength.

I have no feelings on Titus right now. I am very skeptical of people who town read me D1 (outside a very small set of players), especially when they don't provide a reason as to why they town read me when asked.

I provided my reasoning.

I'll bite the bait though, tell me about this PP read.

I already did; you should have paid attention the first time.

Yea, but...I'm policy lynching...uh....

Power to you, my friend. I believe you have no place in a penitentiary.

PenguinPower had an incredibly town entrance, which was natural; there was absolutely nothing artificial or fake in his opening. This earned him the spot as my penultimate townread. Since then, there has been a perfect blend of being lighthearted and scumhunting; he's neither fluff posted nor been super serious. That is exactly what I would expect of him as town. Pending some major change, my townread there is never shifting its strength.

This still holds. I am quite positive you have been scumhunting and you yourself know that to be true. If you want me to point out the more 'lighthearted' content, I can.

Except this game, just invert it; PenguinPower's entrance this game was incredibly stilted. His posting this game has been entirely super-serious; he is altogether missing the lighthearted aspect. His focus has been too much on mechanics and not enough on punhunting. Add in that the role he claimed is literally a pun role, and he is a solid punread.

Pine:

I described the threefold reasons for this read briefly before.

Pine, the short version is that this is Pine transparently being a punfuck. I am intimately familiar with his meta as both alignments and I guarantee you his contribution this game is him as pun. I can cite multiple behavioral tells to this effect, from what content he is giving, what reads he has given, to the ways he has given it and I will do precisely that in the full version. He had no clue he was playing with

me

, so he didn't properly hide his tells that give him away to me.

The way Pine gave his content was in his posting gimmick. Pine was giving his reads through the "hey Errant got really drunk and slipped in discord..." method. The mod may have told him to stop, but without the mod intervening there, he would have continued to use that gimmick for the whole game.

I can cite multiple references to this, but most famously would in fact be Civilization, something Nahdia should be all too aware of. Pine uses gimmicks to mask his pun content, as a way of hiding in plain sight. They have served him well in the past, acting as a way to engage others in an entertaining manner but also lead to them underestimating him.

Prior to the gimmick, which brings me to the first point, Pine was contributing nothing. This was part of where the punread originated. Pine willingly replaced into the game. What did he do after replacing in? Nothing. Pine replaced in at 170, page 7, on June 5th.
Pine's first content was 253, a singular line on PenguinPower echoing thread consensus (more on that when we get to point two), but his first full contribution is 459, page 19, on June 9th.

He has given no reasons for his reads. (The gimmick also helps to serve mask a lack of reasons.) And he has given reads on only a small fraction of the players in the game. And he has done nothing since choosing to replace in. I know Pine, and while he may adamantly deny it, as pun he is a lurker, both in the sense of not posting often and actively lurking a fair amount of the time he posts.

Were he town, he would have upon replacing in done his absolute best to give content in spite of having not read the game. Pine replacing in as town needs not have read the whole game to contribute opinions, but the Pine of this game did nothing...except for, when he did go with his gimmicky reads, defend the players in the game most likely to be pun.

Why is that condemning?

Because Pine is the strongest anti-busser pun player on the site. He will distance. He'll even vote a punbuddy. He might 'bus' in the sense that he'll pine after a punbuddy who makes sense to push but given the slightest excuse he'll abort it if he sees an opportunity to let the punbuddy live. And he sees opportunities even where by all rights none

should

be. By that I mean he sees a chance to abort a bus where other players insist to continue one.

This is particularly pertinent given PenguinPower. If you assume PenguinPower is pun, then 253 is perfect distancing. Given the first opportunity, he reverses the read to being a townread. And his other noteworthy townread? TehBrawlGuy. The two players in the game aside from Pine, most likely to be pun, and Pine townreads them.

His approach this game has been pun. His content this game has been pun. This is, 100% guaranteed to be his pungame. He would never have played this way if he had known I was in the game, but since he was unaware of my presence, he thought that this strategy would go unnoticed.

[Pine]

It's possibly borderline in regards to impersonating the mod. I'll ask it to stop right now but won't take further action.

Sorry, my bad. I didn't think about it from this angle.

Obviously EP has not been giving me the answers.

[Srceenplay]

Screenplay: Screenplay's contribution this game on the other hand have been somewhat indicative of pun. He is also fairly lackluster, but the difference is I have the experience with him to know that if he were town he shouldn't be. None of his contributions in this game have been even remotely endearing, and yet I've seen plenty of content sending up red flags, as early as 106. 108 was hollow as well, with no purpose behind it. His reads such as in 177 are opposite what they should be, and he is someone who I respect as a punhunter. Being on vacation feels like more of an excuse than anything else; he is posting plenty, he is reading everything (both of these are self-evident if you look at his iso), and yet in spite of this he is doing virtually nothing.

I’m not sure who you are but this is bullshit.
You have went way down on my list.

[Nahdia]

I read Pine's EP thing not as gimmicking his reads but as giving reaction tests, but I can follow your logic and the other stuff you've pointed out definitely tracks.

I disagree with you on PP though. I just read through them, I think their being stilted is pretty well excused by there being no votes. I think their progression towards and the way they claimed came off as town.

[Pine]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Nahdia why around anti-Town, frand?

[Nahdia]

who what where why

[Srceenplay]

When

[Espeonage]

How

[TehBrawlGuy]

TBG really needs to stop talking shop and get back to scumhunting.

Cool, can we start with you?

I hereby declare anyone after this point who makes a post purely mechanical in nature will provoke my eternal ire and I will campaign for their death forevermore.

Straight up throttling discussion on mechanics is absolutely not pro-town in nature, especially when the players involved have already established scum reads. If and when we see flips we don't want to see after today, I'll be looking at you.

I could maybe buy that you're just super interested in scumhunting over mechanics discussion if it wasn't for the end day vote and lack of any engagement with me w/r/t my reads. As it stands it just looks to me like you're attempting to powerwolf your way into silencing discussion that helps the Town.

Color me exquisitely doubtful that this discussion helps town. Straight up creating a mechanics smokescreen to let scum contribute to the tthread without ruffling feathers is not only not pro-town, it's actually very much anti-town. So stop doing it. I've scanned over what you're discussing; it's fucking stupid. No lying about reads. No randoming your slot ratings. Follow your reads, publish your list day 2, lynch people who shouldn't have survived. We're playing mafia, not taking a math test.

Given that you're likening looking at the ranking system to taking a math test, I find it ironic that you're calling anything fucking stupid. I also think it's absolutely bullshit that mechanics discussion doesn't ruffle feathers. Look at how many people have wanted my head today partially because of that.

We can agree to disagree on how valuable the mechanics discussion is, but if I feel like I want to talk about it, I'm going to do it, and I encourage other players to do it. It absolutely helps me scumhunt. Hell, even here, your stubbornness actually reads pretty genuine, so I can buy your opener being Town and not just powerwolfing.

@thread:

thoughts on PP and Espe if you haven't given them recently?

[the worst]

Espe towny
PP not towny

[DeasVail]

I am very sorry for my lack of activity over the long weekend. I was hoping to have more time, but alas I have not! I will have a lot more during the week and am hoping to sink my claws into this again then!

Meow!

[Vaxkiller]

I promise I'll give some thoughts tonight

[Nahdia]

Hi quick post here I expected to be able to post plenty while in recovery from surgery but now I've gone and contacted a flu virus on top of everything else so my energy level is zilch and also I feel like I'm dying a bit so I'll pop back in when I can good luck.

[NicoRobin]

one zero zero.

[Shoshin]

Dunn, I'd like an answer to this:

you can have a 4 though mariar

Why 4? Who's lower?

[Shoshin]

Vaxkiller: Vaxkiller also has gone on a rollercoaster in my reads, from a six to a four before I settled on five. To some extent, he Vaxes me; I don't have a reliable way of reading his contribution. However, some of his pushes, while containing some...questionable...reasoning, look like they are genuinely going in the right direction. Not a killer-strong read, but enough that I want to keep him in the game longer.

This "rollercoaster from a six to a four to a five" feels fake.

[Shoshin]

I also don't like how Pun's rankings -- 10, 8, 8, 8, 6, 6, 6, 5, 5, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3, 2, 2, 0 -- don't match up to the actual rankings -- 10, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 6, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, 0, 0 -- seems like a very unnatural way to think about the game if you're actually trying to sort reads into a meaningful rankings list.

[MariaR]

Shoshin is by far the player that interests me the most atm.

[Taly]

ok so ive given the game some breathing room.

im climbing out of the pity-party i held for myself the past day

i want to solve this game.

readslist tonight after i take brother to work, write some, and make a few life calls; you guys can hold me to it.

[Dunnstral]

Dunn, I'd like an answer to this:

you can have a 4 though mariar

Why 4? Who's lower?

Nico can have a 1 for being useless, Vax can get a 0 for being my quest and being scummy anyway, other than that I don't know, and don't know if revealing a lot of #'s is even a good idea

[Srceenplay]

@all.
Engage with me.

[Shoshin]

Engage with me.

What're your top 3 scumreads/townreads at the moment?

[Shoshin]

Dunn, I'd like an answer to this:

you can have a 4 though mariar

Why 4? Who's lower?

Nico can have a 1 for being useless, Vax can get a 0 for being my quest and being scummy anyway, other than that I don't know, and don't know if revealing a lot of #'s is even a good idea

Why is Maria a 4?