Mini Normal 2016 | Otters vs. Penguins | Endgame

[Invisibility]

townreading Tommy

Could you give a run down on the whole roster?

Or just like top 3-4 reads. Town or scum, with reasons though.

ok
im really tired right now also

BlueBloodedToffee - his playstyle is scummy to me so i really can't trust myself to get a solid read on him right now
Garmr - townreading. his gamesolving attempts don't seem to be fake
Gustavo - townreading for reasons already stated
Gosrir Elmer Odels - i scumread him early for posting fluffy, and after ISO i'm not really convinced that he's town
Nosferatu - i was townreading Nos but i think i doled that out too quickly. currently rests at null
Performer - ISO'd. posting feels very fake and untrying
i have to go now so i'll do the rest later

The rest:

teacher
wavemode
Lefty
ByronVilla
Invisibility
Tchill13
Tommy Egan

[Gosrir Elmer Odels]

@Gus: My point is that BV's & Performer's actions were very similar in spirit. You defended the former & lost your shit over the latter.

I like Performer's newest posts. I don't really agree with his opinions, but they seem to come from a genuine POV.

Tommy's posts, otoh, I don't like at all. Firsty, I don't get the Nos vote. Secondly, the format seems to me like honesty signalling. For this second I'd like to ask for some help: what's the site-meta on this? Does town do RL-days-long catchups in this format nowadays? (I got burnt in my last game by a case that started out from something similar, but I still think there might be merit in this notion.)

Here's a little something I'd like to throw out there to you: I'm currently townreading Garmr & Lefty for their proactivity. (Unless one of them is scumbuddies with Invis & Performer, but that doesn't sound possible.)

[Tommy Egan]

Oh look Nos still literally providing nothing. I know that's rich coming from me but active lurking is 100% worse than not posting at all. The fact people are town reading this active lurking genuinely concerns me.

2/3 of those aren't what i consider active lurking

you would lynch byron? why?

Show me what isn't active lurking? And can I get that reads list I asked for?

@GEO you don't like my catch up points because I used them to catch up? Lol would you rather I just didn't read what I missed?

[Tommy Egan]

Oh and BV would be a half decent info lynch with a possibility that it's a scum slot aswell

[Tommy Egan]

What don't you get about the nos vote? I have my reasons more than once in my posts

[Tommy Egan]

And finally, why would scum!Egan try create a new wagon after catching up instead of spinning my way onto one if the existing ones? Do you believe I'm scum with the two biggest wagons?

[Lefty]

Oh and BV would be a half decent info lynch with a possibility that it's a scum slot aswell

UNVOTE: Teacher
VOTE: ByronVilla

[Gustavo]

Gus: My point is that BV's & Performer's actions were very similar in spirit. You defended the former & lost your shit over the latter.

?

I may be confused. I don’t remember bv doing anything similar to what performer did.

[Tchill13]

Days 1 two and 3 should be used to lynch suspicious players. Players that will not help town. Players that could be scum but could also be used as tools by scum because of the limited information early game. If you can't lynch scum for sure day 3 after a few town flips and night kills. You're just bad or you've allowed scum to use too many players to their advantage.

[Tommy Egan]

I still can't understand what you're point on me here is tchill you said I don't want to lynch anyone likely to make lylo? Who is likely to make lylo and Why?

[Tommy Egan]

Like I tr lefty, Gus and garmr, I lean town on BBT

Performer and Teacher i aint sure on and don't see there lynches providing much in terms of information just yet so will try sort them more d2. Which of these players exactly do you object to not being in my lynch pool?

[Lefty]

Days 1 two and 3 should be used to lynch suspicious players. Players that will not help town. Players that could be scum but could also be used as tools by scum because of the limited information early game. If you can't lynch scum for sure day 3 after a few town flips and night kills. You're just bad or you've allowed scum to use too many players to their advantage.

This philosophy is just so backwards to me, dude. Like giving up easy MLs in the early parts of the game just adds more pressure to getting it right later on. I’d rather scum have to work D1-3 to get townies lynched than just pick players who don’t look strong and lynch them cause we don’t want them at end game. Like why are you evening thinking of end game D1? Just hunt scum, dude. How am I supposed to differiante between scum vs lazy town if we just lynch everyone who says dumb shit?

[Nosferatu]

Oh look Nos still literally providing nothing. I know that's rich coming from me but active lurking is 100% worse than not posting at all. The fact people are town reading this active lurking genuinely concerns me.

2/3 of those aren't what i consider active lurking

you would lynch byron? why?

Show me what isn't active lurking? And can I get that reads list I asked for?

the last two. One of them is actively trying to speculate about the alignment of relevant players with another person, and the other one is attempting to provoke someone with a scumread on me. I don't think either of those are active lurking.

Active lurking implies that I'm not reacting to the gamestate and giving information on it which isn't really true I think.

Oh and BV would be a half decent info lynch with a possibility that it's a scum slot aswell

Top 10 useless fucking answers
No shit. Why do you think there's a possibility that it's a scum slot.

Oh and BV would be a half decent info lynch with a possibility that it's a scum slot aswell

UNVOTE: Teacher
VOTE: ByronVilla

??? What happened?

[Tchill13]

Days 1 two and 3 should be used to lynch suspicious players. Players that will not help town. Players that could be scum but could also be used as tools by scum because of the limited information early game. If you can't lynch scum for sure day 3 after a few town flips and night kills. You're just bad or you've allowed scum to use too many players to their advantage.

This philosophy is just so backwards to me, dude. Like giving up easy MLs in the early parts of the game just adds more pressure to getting it right later on. I’d rather scum have to work D1-3 to get townies lynched than just pick players who don’t look strong and lynch them cause we don’t want them at end game. Like why are you evening thinking of end game D1? Just hunt scum, dude. How am I supposed to differiante between scum vs lazy town if we just lynch everyone who says dumb shit?

I mean it's just my style. This is more of a post game discussion.

Invis is probably scum.

Invis, Byron gosrir are great lynches

[Tommy Egan]

There may be something that tells me you're town - but I want to ignore it for now.

OK now my vote is serious.

And again, you would not have known I was 'witholding' informationa had I not stated it openly in a post.

Stop surface level reading and learn to Mafia bro.

Ok don't OMGUS. I am learning to play this game so let me, being an ass helps no-one. Just because you said 'oh guys I have info on how Lefty's town but I'm ignoring it', it doesn't excuse you from not giving us that information. You're still withholding information whether or not you tell us you have that information.

Scumread: BBT - Says stuff with no reason, and then when asked to elaborate he just ignores them or makes a snarky comment. It's probably me having a personal gripe, but withholding information from town is one of the scummiest things you can do imo, and this is a prime example.

Why would scum do this? How do you differentiate scummy vs just being an ass

I mean being an ass is a scumtell for me. I'll admit it's more anti-town than scummy, but I don't see town motivation in being confrontational, avoiding questions and in general just not giving information away. Scum motivation is in this, as it throws off town and blocks the information that they can work with.

I tell you what, since i've asked multiple times and still not been given one i'll make a deal with you.

You give me a readslist then i'll provide the case on why BV may be scum. (The case is a bit thin and is more based on being an info lynch which is why BV is a compromise lynch).

[Lefty]

Days 1 two and 3 should be used to lynch suspicious players. Players that will not help town. Players that could be scum but could also be used as tools by scum because of the limited information early game. If you can't lynch scum for sure day 3 after a few town flips and night kills. You're just bad or you've allowed scum to use too many players to their advantage.

This philosophy is just so backwards to me, dude. Like giving up easy MLs in the early parts of the game just adds more pressure to getting it right later on. I’d rather scum have to work D1-3 to get townies lynched than just pick players who don’t look strong and lynch them cause we don’t want them at end game. Like why are you evening thinking of end game D1? Just hunt scum, dude. How am I supposed to differiante between scum vs lazy town if we just lynch everyone who says dumb shit?

I mean it's just my style. This is more of a post game discussion.

Invis is probably scum.

Invis, Byron gosrir are great lynches

That’s fine. I’m willing to boil it down to playstyle/philosophy differences but ftr I don’t agree with it. Imo you’re proposal makes it really easy for scum to skate early game because they can wagon scummy looking Town and blend in on VCs. Makes it harder later on when it’s suddebly MyLo to figure out who is who.
FWIW I don’t have any of those slots as TRs but I doubt they’re all scum too. There might be one in that bunch.

[Lefty]

@Nos - I stay frosty. Beyond BV’s interaction early on with BBT (which in all honestly piggy backed largely on my own involvement with BBT) I don’t have good reason to TR him. The stuff he’s been picking at lately seems narrow in the grand scheme of things.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Prodge.

Sorry guys, hectic couple of days and now I'm ever so slightly drunk! Will het around to reading this game tomorrow and getting shit done.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

While I'm here, why not! Beware, I'm phone posting!

i think that gustavo is town for his "stubbornness" for lack of a better word

Why do you think stubborness is more likely to come from town than scum?

Invis is objectively the best lynch imo.

I got cold feet on this - he is flip flopping too much to be scum IMO.

Invis/teacher/tommy/performer/gosrir are in my should be dealt with pool.

Invis and Performer can be removed from this pool. I'm good with any of the other 3 though (Tommy isn't a great lynch but I skinmed his catch up and me no likey.) I'm reluctant to lynch on a catch up though as I generally don't like em anyway, so we can give him time for some real time posting.

Invis/teacher wpuld be great though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't even know what that last paragraph is meant to say - I wanted to remove Tommy from lynch pool but didn't like catch up.

Invis stays in lynch pool!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thanks. FWIW, youve moved into a townread. I especially appreciaed the unstructured notes becuase it helped me see how you think, and I could evaluate it against the more structured posts. If you managed to draft that for that effect as scum - well done.

Aw man, I really dislike this post - scum!teacher buddying town!Garmr? All those words and not much said.

If the performer wagon wouldn't have stalled like it has I would think pretty clearly that invis is scum. I feel pretty good that performer maybe scum.

I'm gonna go ahead and take credit for stalling that Performer wagon (y'all can thank me post game when you see he is town)

(or hate me if he is scum!)

As a general rule I don't really join a wagon cause its my top scumread, generally weigh each scum read equally in that I don't care which one gets lynched first. That's not to say there's not an order, but I don't really have a strict order as to my scumreads right now.

I'm not voting GEO for that bad post in the past nor am I voting him for any new reasons. It's a pressure vote to help sort. Questioning him is unnecessary.

Umm, who are your scum reads?

Also, saying you"re applying pressure with a vote kind of relieves the 'pressure' you're supposed to be applying.

^ I agree with Nos on that irt the Performer wagon. BBT essentially made that untouchable and the fact no one has touched it since reinforces that I think both Peformer and BBT are Town.

Lefty knows his shit.

I’m officially more open to the idea that Teacher could be scum.

GLGL

Yaaaasssss!

Like Invis just strikes me as a player who reads stuff and says whatever comes to mind at the time and nothing more.

Yep, and this gave me cold feet on the wagon. It just seems too fluid/genuine/chaotic to be scuk.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Is anyone here to talk?

I really think we should have had an L-1 and a claim at this point in the game. This is taking too long and we're gonna end up scrambling for deadline lynch.

Let's get something moving.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Boys, Performer just told me he is town. I'm much more confident that Performer is town just based on one oost that is too long to quote in a phone!

The problem is that's easy to fake as scum, along with the opportunistic vote he made.

I disagree - I actually think it's quite difficult for scum to play the way Invis is and make it look genuine.

Lefty and bbt

So anyone that disagrees with what you say? AmIRite?

[Nosferatu]

Also, saying you"re applying pressure with a vote kind of relieves the 'pressure' you're supposed to be applying.

this is true to a pretty good degree and i was aware of this, but someone asked so I was obligated to respond.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Then you lie. Or withhold information.

Unless you're scum, then you can just spout some shit that you think will look town.

Who are your scum reads?