Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[stungun0404]

he scum pinged early on and i really haven’t moved off his tracks since then, trusting my initial read mainly

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: stungun0404

might i ask why?

your win condition is problematic

chocolate soy milk is absolutely delicious
(i'd love to try almond milk but allergies >:/)

Mine, are peanuts and red kidney beans. Peanuts are actually beans, not nuts. My eyelids and lips can swell up, if I ingest enough of them. Not pretty.

that would be heartbreaking. I'm allergic to several tree nuts but fine with legumes, being the other way around would stink.
I also don't eat meat hah so the lack of nutrients might kill me

What is “problematic” about Stun’s wincon?

You could also have soy, hemp hearts (almost a complete source amino acids) and B12. My bill is in the mail.

[The Dream Weaver]

Votecount 3.11

Leader: Frozen Angel

Sando (6):

Nosferatu, Creature, Kokichi Oma, Toogeloo, Titus, Gamma Emerald

Katsuki (2):

Shiro, stungun0404

stungun0404 (2):

MathBlade, the worst

Titus (2):

hebichan, Katsuki

the worst (1):

Sando

Creature (0):

Drixx (0):

Gamma Emerald (0):

hebichan (0):

Kokichi Oma (0):

MathBlade(0):

Nancy Drew 39 (0):

Nosferatu (0):

Sakura Hana (0):

Shiro (0):

the worst (0):

Toogeloo (0):

Toranaga (0):

zMuffinMan (0):

Not Voting (6):

Drixx, Frozen Angel, Nancy Drew 39, Sakura Hana, Toranaga, zMuffinMan

With

19

players, it takes

10

to lynch.
The day ends in (expired on 2018-08-02 21:00:00).

Abilities Available for Acquisition

**Healing Touch:

Target another player. If that player has not been killed, any debilitating or harmful effects are removed.

Impenetrable Skin:

You are protected from one killing action until the next Night Phase.

Petrification:

Target another player. That player loses their ability to post, vote, and submit actions and no longer counts for parity.

Power Echo:

Target another player. Any targeting Superpowers this player uses this Night Phase will be used on another player of your choice in addition to their original target.

Power Negation:

Target another player. That player can neither use Superpowers nor be targeted by them until the next Night Phase.

*Shapeshifting:

Target another player. Any actions you take this Night Phase will appear as though that player performed them instead.

*May be used to modify any Superpowers a player may have. Does not count against the number of Superpowers a player may use each Night Phase.
**May be used during the Day but still counts against the following Night's Superpower usage. If used during the Day, resolves immediately. If used during the Night, resolves normally.

[the worst]

@Nancy

he's scum :/

ooh I should try those..

[stungun0404]

ah, I wouldn't regard arrogance as a necessarily negative thing, it definitely had a playful edge.
your "you couldn't catch me as scum last time!" doesn't come across as a townie comment

hmm, i said “my most recent scum game you were in”

you take it as “last time”. i could see that impression, however by recent i mean that you’ve finished the game where i was scum that you were in.

[Nosferatu]

ive only had soy milk my whole life until a few months ago when i switched to rice milk

[stungun0404]

@Nancy

he's scum :/

ooh I should try those..

wrong assumption :-/

i actually tend to be lynchbait-y when i’m a vanilla townie. check out lynchpin mafia via my wiki or via my thread search.

[the worst]

ive only had soy milk my whole life until a few months ago when i switched to rice milk

I really really like rice milk too
basically I just drink a lot of soy milk for teh nutrition

[Nancy Drew 39]

Everything underlined makes assumptions about town or scum then bases the read on those assumptions rather than stuff in play.

This is just wrong and shows a clear lack of understanding of what happened D2. I'll say Nancy first, cause that's just wrong, I don't like some of Nancy's posts because they're surface level game-theory that is borderline scum-biased. Bad game-theory favours scum and thus more likely to come from scum. However I like the rest of Nancy's content so I'm leaning town on the slot overall.

Regarding Shiro and FA, you're missing what happened D2, which is odd, since you started it:

Math - Who hates FA as leader tonight?
Sando - Me, it's unnecessarily dangerous, I don't think she's scum but here's a scenario where it would make sense for FA to be scum, we should limit our risk
Ank - Nah we can just medium and that scenario is proven/disproven
Ank+Sando+others - Long back and forth about how the powers work and eventually agree it's possible for scum-FA to do what I was suggesting but highly unlikely
EOD happens, Ank dies overnight, Shiro opens with medium on Cerb.
Sando - Hmm medium'd cerb does indeed disprove the theory

I've said consistently that I TR FA and I've also said that stacking powers is dangerous, let alone stacking multiple leaderships, based on reads alone. Independent of the Shiro/Cerb medium thing, I've TRd FA and so has most of the player list. I proposed a scenario that would explain Cerb's death and we also proposed the outcome that would eliminate that as a reasonable scenario. Now that that outcome has come to pass I'm saying that scenario no longer makes any sense.

We're talking about just how powerful power negation is, and the fact that the last doubts some people had of FA are dispelled by mediuming Cerb, and you think I shouldn't read anything alignment based into the fact that Shiro chose medium and used it?

If you’re seriously scumreading me at all based on my misunderstanding ot “game theory”, I should link you to D6 game on MU to disabuse of any notion of that. You’re absolutely right to townread me because I am town and 1 am not lying about not choosing Power Negation. Therefore your theory has to be wrong if everyone else is also telling the truth about that and I see no reason at present, to think otherwise.

[Sando]

If you’re seriously scumreading me at all based on my misunderstanding ot “game theory”, I should link you to D6 game on MU to disabuse of any notion of that. You’re absolutely right to townread me because I am town and 1 am not lying about not choosing Power Negation. Therefore your theory has to be wrong if everyone else is also telling the truth about that and I see no reason at present, to think otherwise.

What part of "I didn't like Nancy's game theory posts but I think she's town" wasn't clear?

[Nosferatu]

ive only had soy milk my whole life until a few months ago when i switched to rice milk

I really really like rice milk too
basically I just drink a lot of soy milk for teh nutrition

i wanna try normal cow milk but ive never had the opportunity

[Frozen Angel]

Take Shiro for example. I can think of reasons scum!Shiro would take FA I can think of all sorts of things scum could do to fuck with me and the rest of town. It feels like you’re starting from “this is how I expect things to be played” instead of “this is reality” what is it telling me.

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at here. What am I saying is expected vs reality?

I also don’t like how you adamantly townread FA and then go “don’t make town leader”

Why?

Risk reduction mostly, if you've ever worked in risk, there's a pretty common matrix (OSHA uses it) of likelihood & outcome. High likelihood and catastrophic outcome are your worst case risks, low likelihood and low outcome are safe to ignore. As much as the likelihood is low, the more eggs you put in one basket the more the outcome becomes more and more catastrophic.

I also think it's a reasonable bet that scum have power negation and let FA live/become leader a second time, that gives me significant pause about the effectiveness of an FA leader, even though I don't think it's scum-indicative.

two of my day 1 picks already flipped town and the other 3 are actually not that bad either. Why would you question my effectiveness based on wifom instead of anlyzing what I did directly.

[zMuffinMan]

i actually tend to be lynchbait-y when i’m a vanilla townie

heh... you keep throwing out lines that make me all shifty-eyes

[zMuffinMan]

ah, that reminds me of one of the many things i didnt like about stungun's first post - the mention of reading his role

lol the town pm is virtually empty. why even mention that as something you read?

[the worst]

ive only had soy milk my whole life until a few months ago when i switched to rice milk

I really really like rice milk too
basically I just drink a lot of soy milk for teh nutrition

i wanna try normal cow milk but ive never had the opportunity

I'd be super careful with it if you haven't tried it--it's pretty common to develop an intolerance/low tolerance if you're used to non-animal milks. it's also delicious tho.

[Frozen Angel]

It’s like the scene from Princess Bride and the poisoning. You’ve made an assumption as to which goblet is poisoned and then started reads from there. When the reality in that scene is both were.

Yeah I get your premise, I'm struggling for what it's in relation to, is it all the FA discussion?

Assume scum have power negation.
This means that they can stop a power from acting.
This doesn’t all of a sudden make FA a bad leader choice if she is town. It means they may be able to kill her if she is town.

Now if you assume that scum could kill anyone replace FA with Sando. You’d be arguing you’re own ineffectiveness as leader. Unless there is a unique quality that applies to FA there is no point in that post.

You're missing a very, very crucial detail here: FA was listed, along with Ank, as one of the two leader options last night. Scum decided to kill one of those and presumably could only kill one of those. Both FA and Ank would have 2 powers, equal chance of having BP etc (ignoring the idea that Ank crumbed use of medium). So it's not unreasonable to assume scum used power negation to ensure the kill went through.

If that's true (and I think it's the most likely option, but by no means guaranteed), they decided it was better to leave FA alive than Ank as leader. That tells me they cared enough about the leader to kill one of the options, and they preferred FA to Ank.

a- they didn't have power negation
b- they didn't want to use it
c- they thought ank might be using another ability not bp or the phasing so she would be a safe kill
d- they just wanted her dead more than me cause she had a great read on someone somewhere and I'm just useless in comparision.

If my townreads are wrong help me with them instead of calling me a bad leader. I also have a list that I must submit today.

[Frozen Angel]

oh yeah that reminds me

going to reiterate this every day until this day phase ends

fa should not pick anyone for the superhero team tonight with these shit powers on board

because man those powers largely suck in terms of town utility vs scum utility (outside of healing touch and arguably impenetrable skin) and im pretty sure fa will put scum in her team

at most it should be a relatively small team (2, at most 3) so that any shitty power picks become more obvious

I was thinking about picking some trustable players who will heal other players or bp themself so we see if scum puts itself with a possible power negation use or will go elsewhere

[stungun0404]

i actually tend to be lynchbait-y when i’m a vanilla townie

heh... you keep throwing out lines that make me all shifty-eyes

idk. i didn’t know what angle this pressure has been coming from, so it’s been confusing me, and i think that’s what has put me on the defensive.

also, where did i ever say something about my role pm?

all i said was that iso’d my own role before replacing in — i looked at the iso of both nicorobin and brandi and meta’d them to anticipate what i prefered, which was a town role

[Sakura Hana]

@muffin: You mean this?:

she was the only iso i had gotten too fwiw as well, other than my own role and bbmolla.

[zMuffinMan]

yeah i realised after i wrote that that you prob meant you read your predecessor's ISOs (that's not what you actually said though)

[Frozen Angel]

Yeah, as you eliminate the impossible, only the truth remains.

Exactly.

So FA being scum is possible.

Literally anyone barring myself could be.

But instead we are talking mechanics.
Because people are blatantly basing reads on them which is wrong.

Shiro is town because talking with Cerb. << That is not a valid reason
Titus is town because Math confirmed she took precog. << Not a thing

Like if your reads has “X is town because doing Y is stupid/smart or Z is scum because scum would”

For the love of all that is townie throw that away and look at the play.

It's not! It's really really not! Like you should get a calculator and try doing a 2+2 here. I chose both cerb and ank for night 1. They could both have phasing. they could both have bp. yet you're saying a scum me shot cerb knowing that night I might fail in killing him!

If I'm town no one but me knew cerb was chosen.

Scum me would never take this risk of giving power to the person we were killing to redirect the kill to one of my hypothetical scum mates. Unless if you argue scum me had power negation to use night 1!

Also, me taking no action night 1 is confirmed by cerb. Are you questioning my claim that phasing was the best ability I could pick there? So yes I can be scum. but that theory has like 2% chance/validity at this point.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why not FA? If you weren’t necessarily scumreading the worst, you’d see he made some very good points leading to - what I think is an unlikely conclusion. He understands that it makes absolutely no sense for scum to have killed Ank over FA. His likely mistake is in assuming that FA must be scum because of it. I think scum would have absolutely used Power Negate on FA if they had it. Ank being the kill only makes sense if they didn’t have it.

What good points? That he can't see why Ank was killed over FA?

They both have the same power choices having been powered up twice
They're both widely townread
One has been leader before and one hasn't

There is a slightly more likely chance that Ank picked and will use medium, so if they didn't want to or couldn't use negation then Ank is a better kill target than FA within the group.

But my main point is they killed within the Ank+FA leadership options, when they could have killed anyone else with more safety. The fact that they killed either of them tells me they wanted to influence the leadership picks in some ways, otherwise they'd just ignore it and kill someone easier to kill.

So the question remains, if you're scum and you've decided to shoot at Ank without negating Ank's protection, relying on Ank using Medium,

who do you negate

(if you have it)? Why is FA a better negate target than anyone else on the list in that case?

I think in this scenario FA is a worse pick since she's likely to just be using defensive powers, so negating them isn't particularly useful

.

Have you not read the description? PN works on anything. So what you’re saying about PN not being useful against FA, is simply not true. You theory is fallacious on other levels, such as the bolded. In my case, I was also a superhero on N1 and I like what I picked on N1 a helluva lot more, so if I am in this hypothetical situation, I either use the power I picked N1 or the one I picked on N2 - depending on which one I deem to be most useful to town or myself at the time.

Again, your bad argument is mainly based on confibias. There is no factual basis underlying it. I’m seriously starting to question why you keep pushing this theory and refusing to consider alternate explanations?

[Nancy Drew 39]

ive only had soy milk my whole life until a few months ago when i switched to rice milk

Both of them are good but almond milk is the best.

[stungun0404]

yeah i realised after i wrote that that you prob meant you read your predecessor's ISOs (that's not what you actually said though)

meh, i’m loopy with how i state things sometimes. i’ll take full accountability

——————————————-

@mathblade: i’m reinvestigating your responses to my earlier pushes against you; i don’t feel i may have gave them enough consideration and i apologize for this. i had some troubles around the time you dished them out in keeping up with the thread, but i won’t let that excuse me, i take full-fledged responsibility

[Frozen Angel]

Ok you know what? Ignore me and push me for mislycnh in lylo/later in game, My alignment simply doesn't matter for today tonight yes? I will be available for death starting tomorrow alright? We can simply have this discussions about me tomorrow - forward

let me focus on what I must do as leader today and to think about who I want lynched instead of this useless crap.