Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[Frozen Angel]

wait so it's not a doctor? it won't heal the kills?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why not FA? If you weren’t necessarily scumreading the worst, you’d see he made some very good points leading to - what I think is an unlikely conclusion. He understands that it makes absolutely no sense for scum to have killed Ank over FA. His likely mistake is in assuming that FA must be scum because of it. I think scum would have absolutely used Power Negate on FA if they had it. Ank being the kill only makes sense if they didn’t have it.

What good points? That he can't see why Ank was killed over FA?

They both have the same power choices having been powered up twice
They're both widely townread
One has been leader before and one hasn't

There is a slightly more likely chance that Ank picked and will use medium, so if they didn't want to or couldn't use negation then Ank is a better kill target than FA within the group.

But my main point is they killed within the Ank+FA leadership options, when they could have killed anyone else with more safety. The fact that they killed either of them tells me they wanted to influence the leadership picks in some ways, otherwise they'd just ignore it and kill someone easier to kill.

So the question remains, if you're scum and you've decided to shoot at Ank without negating Ank's protection, relying on Ank using Medium,

who do you negate

(if you have it)? Why is FA a better negate target than anyone else on the list in that case?

I think in this scenario FA is a worse pick since she's likely to just be using defensive powers, so negating them isn't particularly useful

.

Have you not read the description? PN works on anything. So what you’re saying about PN not being useful against FA, is simply not true. You theory is fallacious on other levels, such as the bolded. In my case, I was also a superhero on N1 and I like what I picked on N1 a helluva lot more, so if I am in this hypothetical situation, I either use the power I picked N1 or the one I picked on N2 - depending on which one I deem to be most useful to town or myself at the time.

Again, your bad argument is mainly based on confibias. There is no factual basis underlying it. I’m seriously starting to question why you keep pushing this theory and refusing to consider alternate explanations?

What on earth?! I said it's not useful against FA

UNLESS YOU KILL HER

.

I'm talking about the context, which you brought up, of killing Ank and negating another player

. In THAT CONTEXT, FA is not a good negation target, she's the most likely to be using a defensive power that provides no in-game benefit to her.

Okay, then you’ve totally lost me. Fact: Titus/Math proved precog. Shiro almost certainly did use SM on Cerb. I see no reason for FA to lie about Phasing. I know I didn’t lie about choosing it. Therefore, even it someone did choose that power, it clearly wasn’t used N2. PN is also on the table N3, correct? So even if someone chose it N2, because it is also available N3, there is absolutely no way to determine this, short of someone not only have chosen Power Mimicry N1 but using it on the hypothetically correct player N2 or someone choosing Enhanced Hearing on either night and using it on Ank. Therefore, this line of speculation is just useless WIFOM and is actually getting in the way of town doing anything useful.

[Sakura Hana]

wait so it's not a doctor? it won't heal the kills?

Well technically it heals petrification which is pretty close.

[Sando]

Sando you didn't say why you think I'm wrong about ank?

also talk about my townreads and your townreads as I need it for tonight powers

what do you think about what muffin is saying? I prefer if we could heal slots that actually need that like math and shiro so shiro can medium ank and to see if scum will power negate it or not. I can actually heal one of the two tonight as I'm immortal this night

Wrong about Ank? You mean that they just shot Ank trusting that he was just gonna medium instead of blocking? I'm not saying that's wrong, I'm saying that that's a risk for scum not getting an NK, one they were willing to take apparently. I don't see how it negates the idea that scum would prefer you be leader than Ank though.

I posted a full list a little while ago, general list of townies:
FA, Sakura, Creature, Stun, Math, Shiro, Nancy.

Not sure Shiro is a good pick, medium is super useful atm and giving more powers when they can only use one seems kinda pointlessly dangerous.

Overall I tend to agree with Muffin, the issue is our leader picks dying. I think you're coming to the conclusion that scum don't (yet) have negation, meaning we can get our leaders protection tonight, afaik no-one has claimed BP power yet? That said, keeping negation picks low means if we get a negation that happens hot damn we got a small (very small with some conf-picks elsewhere) scumpool from N2.

Heal is fine, you get a pick tonight FA and can take heal with impunity and use whatever you want.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why not FA? If you weren’t necessarily scumreading the worst, you’d see he made some very good points leading to - what I think is an unlikely conclusion. He understands that it makes absolutely no sense for scum to have killed Ank over FA. His likely mistake is in assuming that FA must be scum because of it. I think scum would have absolutely used Power Negate on FA if they had it. Ank being the kill only makes sense if they didn’t have it.

What good points? That he can't see why Ank was killed over FA?

They both have the same power choices having been powered up twice
They're both widely townread
One has been leader before and one hasn't

There is a slightly more likely chance that Ank picked and will use medium, so if they didn't want to or couldn't use negation then Ank is a better kill target than FA within the group.

But my main point is they killed within the Ank+FA leadership options, when they could have killed anyone else with more safety. The fact that they killed either of them tells me they wanted to influence the leadership picks in some ways, otherwise they'd just ignore it and kill someone easier to kill.

So the question remains, if you're scum and you've decided to shoot at Ank without negating Ank's protection, relying on Ank using Medium,

who do you negate

(if you have it)? Why is FA a better negate target than anyone else on the list in that case?

I think in this scenario FA is a worse pick since she's likely to just be using defensive powers, so negating them isn't particularly useful

.

Have you not read the description? PN works on anything. So what you’re saying about PN not being useful against FA, is simply not true. You theory is fallacious on other levels, such as the bolded. In my case, I was also a superhero on N1 and I like what I picked on N1 a helluva lot more, so if I am in this hypothetical situation, I either use the power I picked N1 or the one I picked on N2 - depending on which one I deem to be most useful to town or myself at the time.

Again, your bad argument is mainly based on confibias. There is no factual basis underlying it. I’m seriously starting to question why you keep pushing this theory and refusing to consider alternate explanations?

What on earth?! I said it's not useful against FA

UNLESS YOU KILL HER

.

I'm talking about the context, which you brought up, of killing Ank and negating another player

. In THAT CONTEXT, FA is not a good negation target, she's the most likely to be using a defensive power that provides no in-game benefit to her.

Okay, then you’ve totally lost me. Fact: Titus/Math proved precog. Shiro almost certainly did use SM on Cerb. I see no reason for FA to lie about Phasing. I know I didn’t lie about choosing it. Therefore, even it someone did choose that power, it clearly wasn’t used N2. PN is also on the table N3, correct? So even if someone chose it N2, because it is also available N3, there is absolutely no way to determine this, short of someone not only have chosen Power Mimicry N1 but using it on the hypothetically correct player N2 or someone choosing Enhanced Hearing on either night and using it on Ank. Therefore, this line of speculation is just useless WIFOM and is actually getting in the way of town doing anything useful.

P.edit not. Lol

[Sakura Hana]

It is not that simple sando, petrification while close is not a kill, it probably bypasses leader's protection, of course, if everyone in the team is town, petrify shouldnt be an issue to begin with.

P-Edit: GODDAMIT NANCY, I taught you how to quote more easily without making a pyramid >.<

[Sando]

Therefore, this line of speculation is just useless WIFOM and is actually getting in the way of town doing anything useful.

Yeah...dunno why you're getting upset, you asked the question initially:

Possible but unlikely because if they had it, why wouldn’t they have used it on FA instead of Ank?

I think we're getting our wires crossed, did you mean "use negation on FA and kill her", because I read it is "use negation on FA and kill Ank".

[Frozen Angel]

Sando you didn't say why you think I'm wrong about ank?

also talk about my townreads and your townreads as I need it for tonight powers

what do you think about what muffin is saying? I prefer if we could heal slots that actually need that like math and shiro so shiro can medium ank and to see if scum will power negate it or not. I can actually heal one of the two tonight as I'm immortal this night

Wrong about Ank? You mean that they just shot Ank trusting that he was just gonna medium instead of blocking? I'm not saying that's wrong, I'm saying that that's a risk for scum not getting an NK, one they were willing to take apparently. I don't see how it negates the idea that scum would prefer you be leader than Ank though.

I posted a full list a little while ago, general list of townies:
FA, Sakura, Creature, Stun, Math, Shiro, Nancy.

Not sure Shiro is a good pick, medium is super useful atm and giving more powers when they can only use one seems kinda pointlessly dangerous.

Overall I tend to agree with Muffin, the issue is our leader picks dying. I think you're coming to the conclusion that scum don't (yet) have negation, meaning we can get our leaders protection tonight, afaik no-one has claimed BP power yet? That said, keeping negation picks low means if we get a negation that happens hot damn we got a small (very small with some conf-picks elsewhere) scumpool from N2.

Heal is fine, you get a pick tonight FA and can take heal with impunity and use whatever you want.

Why do you think me being leader was beneficial to scum. My day 1 list is proved 2/5 town already and the other 3 don't look bad at all imo. You have 2 of those in your townread list and one is just lurking hard cause he was devastated in last mafia game he played cause it lasted for 12 days and it was a nightmare of 131 players.

I agree with different possibilities about ank i posted these 4:

a- they didn't have power negation
b- they didn't want to use it
c- they thought ank might be using another ability not bp or the phasing so she would be a safe kill
d- they just wanted her dead more than me cause she had a great read on someone somewhere and I'm just useless in comparision.

Do you think there is any scenario that is not accounted in those 4?

I didn't come to conclusion that scum doesn't have negation yet. it's just the scenario I think is most possible here + we should consider the fact that ank softed that they are using medium. Also we are not sure yet that titus gave them any power night 2.

[stungun0404]

@gammaemerald, i’ll ask you again - what are your thoughts on how human sequencer was playing before he replaced out? and further, on creature since he replaced in?

Human was kinda scummy to me but I think it wasn't enough for me to fully scumread the slot. As for Creature I don't remember him being in the game so that's scumpoints out of the gate. Also where have you asked this? Did you ask this at all day 2?

i’m townleaning slightly on gamma because a). his answer here takes a solid stance.

human sequencer appears from a quick meta dive to be overall a bit more cautious laying his vote down to begin the game as town than as scum, and didn’t seem to take that degree of caution in this game. can you investigate my 4456 and tell me if you can derive any original insight from that quick meta dive? or if there’s anything you would take seriously.

I have to take some time to digest your post but after a quick look-over it seems pretty good. btw I was actually scumreading you a bit until you responded, now that you have responded and I've read 4456 I think you're town

and b). his reconsideration regarding his stance on me read to me as townie

[Sando]

It is not that simple sando, petrification while close is not a kill, it probably bypasses leader's protection, of course, if everyone in the team is town, petrify shouldnt be an issue to begin with.

Petrification isn't an issue at all if FA is the only superhero tonight though. If anyone gets petrified...we can pretty easily track that one down

FA doesn't have to pick heal, just seems like the sensible option, but then I haven't thought it through tbh much.

[MathBlade]

@FA permission to Garcia?

[Frozen Angel]

I actually think one of a or b is correct. c is definitly correct reagardless of a and b and d might be true. I just need to check ank iso to see if they had any particular specific read that is being burried.

[Frozen Angel]

@FA permission to Garcia?

what do you mean?

[Katsuki]

[Nancy Drew 39]

stungun0404 I think Katsuki is purposefully active lurking and if I wanted to push someone for low content I would go after them before anyone else. I'm still not sure if it's the right approach.

@the worst explain how you think and why you make your votes. I want to know the reasons behind your branching

@everyone I need a list of 5 townreads from each one of you.

You
Sakura
Math
Muffin
Creature

[MathBlade]

@FA permission to Garcia?

what do you mean?

Garcia = answer a question directed @ someone else

[MathBlade]

stungun0404 I think Katsuki is purposefully active lurking and if I wanted to push someone for low content I would go after them before anyone else. I'm still not sure if it's the right approach.

@the worst explain how you think and why you make your votes. I want to know the reasons behind your branching

@everyone I need a list of 5 townreads from each one of you.

You
Sakura
Math
Muffin
Creature

Me Drixx Sakura Nancy and one of FA/Shiro not both

[MathBlade]

If I can’t have the hybrid Nos or Creature

[Nancy Drew 39]

stungun0404 I think Katsuki is purposefully active lurking and if I wanted to push someone for low content I would go after them before anyone else. I'm still not sure if it's the right approach.

@the worst explain how you think and why you make your votes. I want to know the reasons behind your branching

@everyone I need a list of 5 townreads from each one of you.

You
Sakura
Math
Muffin
Creature

P.edit forgot Shiro (yes I know that’s 6).

[Frozen Angel]

@FA permission to Garcia?

what do you mean?

Garcia = answer a question directed @ someone else

do it

[Sando]

Why do you think me being leader was beneficial to scum. My day 1 list is proved 2/5 town already and the other 3 don't look bad at all imo. You have 2 of those in your townread list and one is just lurking hard cause he was devastated in last mafia game he played cause it lasted for 12 days and it was a nightmare of 131 players.

I'm not saying "beneficial to scum" in isolation, I'm saying you being leader was sufficiently better for scum than Ank to make them want to kill Ank. You and Ank were both good kill targets, both would have 2 powers, both were leadership prospects etc. But Shiro was also a double-hero, why not Shiro instead of Ank?

Before you dismiss my theory, the key question is that, why Ank instead of another hero?

a- they didn't have power negation
b- they didn't want to use it
c- they thought ank might be using another ability not bp or the phasing so she would be a safe kill
d- they just wanted her dead more than me cause she had a great read on someone somewhere and I'm just useless in comparision.

Given the properties of negation, don't see any reason not to (b) if you have it on your target, what other power is worth risking getting redirected etc?

A and C go together, but yes, possible. Still though, why shoot Ank at all instead of a third option?

D is possible yes.

[Frozen Angel]

stungun0404 I think Katsuki is purposefully active lurking and if I wanted to push someone for low content I would go after them before anyone else. I'm still not sure if it's the right approach.

@the worst explain how you think and why you make your votes. I want to know the reasons behind your branching

@everyone I need a list of 5 townreads from each one of you.

You
Sakura
Math
Muffin
Creature

Me Drixx Sakura Nancy and one of FA/Shiro not both

what does it mean not both? you think if one of me/shiro is town the other is scum?

[Frozen Angel]

Why do you think me being leader was beneficial to scum. My day 1 list is proved 2/5 town already and the other 3 don't look bad at all imo. You have 2 of those in your townread list and one is just lurking hard cause he was devastated in last mafia game he played cause it lasted for 12 days and it was a nightmare of 131 players.

I'm not saying "beneficial to scum" in isolation, I'm saying you being leader was sufficiently better for scum than Ank to make them want to kill Ank. You and Ank were both good kill targets, both would have 2 powers, both were leadership prospects etc. But Shiro was also a double-hero, why not Shiro instead of Ank?

Before you dismiss my theory, the key question is that, why Ank instead of another hero?

a- they didn't have power negation
b- they didn't want to use it
c- they thought ank might be using another ability not bp or the phasing so she would be a safe kill
d- they just wanted her dead more than me cause she had a great read on someone somewhere and I'm just useless in comparision.

Given the properties of negation, don't see any reason not to (b) if you have it on your target, what other power is worth risking getting redirected etc?

A and C go together, but yes, possible. Still though, why shoot Ank at all instead of a third option?

D is possible yes.

Using power negation would risk outing a scum as limited players would have access to that ability. hence why b is a legit scenario

[MathBlade]

Sando you didn't say why you think I'm wrong about ank?

also talk about my townreads and your townreads as I need it for tonight powers

what do you think about what muffin is saying? I prefer if we could heal slots that actually need that like math and shiro so shiro can medium ank and to see if scum will power negate it or not. I can actually heal one of the two tonight as I'm immortal this night

Wrong about Ank? You mean that they just shot Ank trusting that he was just gonna medium instead of blocking? I'm not saying that's wrong, I'm saying that that's a risk for scum not getting an NK, one they were willing to take apparently. I don't see how it negates the idea that scum would prefer you be leader than Ank though.

I posted a full list a little while ago, general list of townies:
FA, Sakura, Creature, Stun, Math, Shiro, Nancy.

Not sure Shiro is a good pick, medium is super useful atm and giving more powers when they can only use one seems kinda pointlessly dangerous.

Overall I tend to agree with Muffin, the issue is our leader picks dying. I think you're coming to the conclusion that scum don't (yet) have negation, meaning we can get our leaders protection tonight, afaik no-one has claimed BP power yet? That said, keeping negation picks low means if we get a negation that happens hot damn we got a small (very small with some conf-picks elsewhere) scumpool from N2.

Heal is fine, you get a pick tonight FA and can take heal with impunity and use whatever you want.

Why do you think me being leader was beneficial to scum. My day 1 list is proved 2/5 town already and the other 3 don't look bad at all imo. You have 2 of those in your townread list and one is just lurking hard cause he was devastated in last mafia game he played cause it lasted for 12 days and it was a nightmare of 131 players.

I agree with different possibilities about ank i posted these 4:

a- they didn't have power negation
b- they didn't want to use it
c- they thought ank might be using another ability not bp or the phasing so she would be a safe kill
d- they just wanted her dead more than me cause she had a great read on someone somewhere and I'm just useless in comparision.

They did it to cause chaos, it was a null kill, or you’re scum

Do you think there is any scenario that is not accounted in those 4?

I didn't come to conclusion that scum doesn't have negation yet. it's just the scenario I think is most possible here + we should consider the fact that ank softed that they are using medium. Also we are not sure yet that titus gave them any power night 2.

See inline for 3 additional possibilities.

[stungun0404]

fa, i still am tending towards townreading you fwiw, just didn’t include you because i’m focusing on the other people you might be choosing for powers