Newbie 1882 - Game Over

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #800 (ISO) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:16 pm

Post by teacher »

Also, Im going to metadive. Eragon/HWS - links to your 2 most recent scum and town games (15 players or less) on any site, please?
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Post Post #801 (ISO) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:21 pm

Post by Eragon »

15P or less huh...

how about http://blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewto ... 17&t=87441

VFM 34, i was mafia with 4 others and we ended up winning in judgement day(really odd mechanics)

and Newbie 1881 on this site, i replaced in D1 as scum, and lost D3

Town...

town...

lmfao... the last 7 completed games i have played have all been scum...

hrmm....


http://blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewto ... 17&t=86482

this was my best/most favorite town game that i hard-carried town...

http://blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewto ... 17&t=86934

this one was kinda ehh on my play, but i was conf.town from D1
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Post Post #802 (ISO) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:31 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

I'm out with the boys so more later.

Teach, all my games are on here. I'll link some later but I'm restricted to phone posts for like 36h
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Post Post #803 (ISO) » Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:29 am

Post by teacher »

Quack quack?

I’m going to be LA weekend. I’d ask that we not get two votes on any slot.
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Post Post #804 (ISO) » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:46 am

Post by brassherald »

Votecount 4.01

Not Voting (4) -
HeWhoSwims, teacher, Eragon, UglyDuck

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
Day 4 ends in (expired on 2018-08-23 17:30:00)
I've only made one good post, and don't you dare accuse me of doing it again.
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Post Post #805 (ISO) » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:02 pm

Post by teacher »

In post 382, HeWhoSwims wrote:The thing with Char is that while the arguments don't check out I don't really know if it's anti town.. could be just faulty argumenting. But I wouldn't really see a convincing lynch atm. Let's make day 2 longer y'all.
Just wanted to put this in my ISO. Also reminding myself to reread Newb 1843.
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Post Post #806 (ISO) » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:00 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Some games

Town
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76139
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=76359

Scum
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=74913
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=75231

Enough for now? Most other scumgames were really early in my career so to say.
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Post Post #807 (ISO) » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:09 pm

Post by teacher »

kindly prod Duck?
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Post Post #808 (ISO) » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:14 pm

Post by brassherald »

Votecount 4.01

Not Voting (4) -
HeWhoSwims, teacher, Eragon, UglyDuck

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
Day 4 ends in (expired on 2018-08-23 17:30:00)

UglyDuck has been prodded twice, and, having been missing again, will be replaced. Reminder, you get two prods only.
Eragon has been prodded.
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Post Post #809 (ISO) » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:23 pm

Post by Eragon »

rip.

prodded and i still see my post about 10 posts up lol.

we are kinda stuck here with UD missing and HWS inactive
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Post Post #810 (ISO) » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:18 pm

Post by teacher »

Yup. But someone will hopefully give some new perspective in Ducks place since I’m a bit inclined to defer to that slot.

may I pm Duck in case that obviates the need for replacement?
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Post Post #811 (ISO) » Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:41 pm

Post by brassherald »

Krazy replaces UglyDuck
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Post Post #812 (ISO) » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:02 pm

Post by Krazy »

Step 0: We put on a delightful gamesolving tune.
Spoiler:


Step 1: We assume that Teacher is conftown because if he is a scumpowergamer in newbie queue he should be ashamed of himself.

Step 2: We ignore the useless meta because it helps for neither of the remaining candidates. Neither is playing to a discernible meta.

Step 3: We consider Zito-->Eragon/Chardev
Spoiler:
In post 155, Papa Zito wrote: Can you talk a bit more about Chardev? He hasn't really pinged me in any particular way.
+1scumequity
In post 171, Papa Zito wrote:I don't think giving a full readlist is beneficial at this time.
In post 164, Completly Trustworthy wrote:The reason why I thought Chardev's post about me was odd is that he said I was either scum or newbtown, which has negative implications.
How so? Doesn't that actually imply neutrality? Doesn't it mean he's giving equal weight to both possibilities?
Then the finger of suspicion placed toward me was also not committed to and he suggested he could wrong shortly afterward.
But what's suspicious about this behavior. Or put differently, why would this action be more likely from a scum player than a town one?
Finally, Chardev was also echoing Teacher's sentiments that I was dominating the thread instead of proposing a new idea.
Same question as above. Why would you consider this a scum move? What's the motive?
Hard defense -1 scum equity.
In post 374, Papa Zito wrote:Chardev's case deconstructed. More quote striping yay. I've discussed Duck's posts already in so I'm just looking at Chardev's interpretations.
80 - Apologizes for not posting earlier, votes me for defending other people. I get why this would be scummy, but that's probably not worth a lynch on its own. Scummy.
I'm not sure who invented this rule but I don't agree with it. Bad logic is bad logic and calling it out isn't scummy.
82 - Nice good long post about probability and the IC...in where he also flip-flops opinion, so NAI. (And as a side note, please, PLEASE do not keep a scum IC alive just because he's the IC.)
I don't see where he flipflops his opinion, but if that's his take then what makes it NAI?
112 - Tells Lefty that gut is not a good scumhunting tool. While it's not good on its *own*, this is D1 and you'll have to use it a bit. Also doesn't understand what question Lefty was talking about when it was clearly his first post. Scummy.
The gut thing is purely theory. I don't know why he felt the need to argue this but it doesn't say much about his alignment.

I guess Chardev is assuming UG's question here to Lefty was feigned? But if so for what purpose? How does pretending to not know what Lefty was talking about advance a scum agenda?
116 - Naming the Charisma list. No substantial content.
This one's strange because it really looks like UG is throwing shade in this post. I guess technically that's "not substantial" but why is it NAI?
118 - Asks people if they think there's scum between me and demon. This seems an awful lot like a way to suspect someone without providing a reason! Scummy.
I'm ok with this one. Newbies always demand reasons for everything and not giving reasons always strikes them as the epitome of evil.
141 - Refines the read request. This seems ok. Towny.
I don't understand why 141 is Town and 115 isn't. 141 is in response to someone questioning 115.
151 - Questions Lefty. Again, Towny.
Scumhunting is Town, sure.
172 - Responds to CT...in a rather unsettling matter. NAI.
What was "unsettling" about this post? He's just responding to CT here.
This deconstruction does not result in a vote on the slot, +1 scum equity.


Step 4: We consider Eragon/Chardev-->Zito

Spoiler:
In post 65, Chardev wrote:UNVOTE: Papa Zito

Avoiding potential shitlynch. iChronicdemonic, please be more careful with your voting, and state the reasoning in your post. Sheeping is considered scummy, and Chronic has not been helpful, at all, so
suspicion levels for iChronicdemonic increased by 20%
.

CT, I can't read minds, but Zito probably is thinking that those who defy math are scummy. (And, well, he does have a point.)
+1 scum equity


In post 556, Eragon wrote:Completely Trustworthy

Pings me as odd because he is criticizing someone for random voting the IC. (especially as its my slot XD)
What I dont like is that, while it was obvious that it was an RvS vote, CT still called it out and defended the IC by saying he has a higher chance of rolling town. And also, CT did RvS, and still called out the vote. also, he called out the slot on a newbie. (point coming soon)
CT asks Reckoner if the vote was random or not. On top of the fact it should be obvious, he doesn’t call them out on it, he asks a question, and Reckoner is the SE slot.
>point- CT calls out a newbie slot on RvS’ing the IC, but when the SE slot RvS’s the IC slot, he just asks a question, like he is scared of being pushed back on
Reckoner voted Papa before Papa voted Reck
you can have more than one RvS vote
this is considered angleshooting, and what does it matter if someone confirms but not posted? It doesn’t seem intentional, it just seems like a dude with a life. And you suspecting them for this????
Why this shade?
Some people would prefer to wait to reveal their reads to see if something happens. This specially seems like something an experienced IC would do.
all this jumping around m8. You think 3 people are scum by post 57 LOL.
parts of it is shading the talented people for maybe pushing chronic as a mis-lynch? And it also backs off of the chronic Scumread by passing it off as Newbtown

active/helpful is not a town tell
Inactive is not a scum tell
reck explained he plays lazily, and then you SR him for being unhelpful and ‘weird'
Theorizing a scum team with low reason isn’t a scumtell, its a theory.
Overall these are weak reads and reaching for almost all of it.
but Zito never said he plays lazily. also, a noob town or scum read is exactly what it is. You said yourself that you havent voted
so you think Chardev is scum because he has been hopping off an on wagons? What about yourself? Or is it because your new? What about chronic? Or is it because he’s a noob? Chardev was a noob too, so how does that factor? I really don’t like this post. also, saying “If ugly doesn’t pan out, Chardev is fine too” If you want a Lynch PUSH IT. Don’t go with what OTHER PEOPLE want, push your own READS.
“The reason I SR you for now” Legit being able to back off at like, any point on this.
WAIT DONT HAMMER MY BUDDY YET, HE WILL CLAIM PR
Is jailkeeper a good claim? “Did we do well?”
ok, its a bad fakeclaim, even though I just asked and Teacher and Reck just said its a good claim. I believe duck.
legit this is just busywork, along with all of his reads. He makes a case on Ugly, calls him scum, duck claims JK, and he drops the SR and goes Ducks auto-town.



Sunlit Diamond(he who swims)
gives me towny vibes because it sounds like thinking out loud and a natural post. Im a bit unwilling to give out a townread here for naturalness b/c they are an SE, meaning at least somewhat experienced. But as of rn im liking them
so you vote someone else because they have a differing opinion than you and they push a vote for it?
agree on meta, the push on chardev is opportunistic(im biased) I like the reads on UD, CT, and lefty tho.


Reckoner
at least he’s truthful 0.0
I agree with this, but coming from an SE its also kinda opportunistic.
Yeeeet
can you explain this?
ok, I kinda like this

Papa Zito
Yes, yes, I know, I just called CT out for this, but because this is papa zito’s second vote im just curious if its RvS or not?
Papa is town
agree, also Lol@79
lol, also this is gut town right here. I like Papa Zito
is towny and me like

Ugly duck
Lol what?
this is a blatant mis-rep, because Chardev never spoke for anyone else responding to CT…
the first part of this post is yuck.
I dont like going off “percentages” when making reads, its just useless circle jerking and gets you nowhere.
I just finished a game where IC was alive d3 and there was still no suspicion on them for being alive. TP’s are a thing you know, and scum can be worried about hitting TP
second. So your basically saying, if its an experienced new player thats town thats good but if they are inexperienced new player thats scum that bad b/c they play new kid on the block card? I don’t get this at all, as you yourself said, everyone has an equal chance to flip scum, and you judge people on merit, not status
First one he shades reck for not having content, and says he’s done more, then in 115, he says “teacher and demon should post reads” when he hasn’t posted any reads?
I low-key don’t believe this at all. I cant put my finger on the reasoning, but it just seems faked, timing and everything. Jailkeeper is an easy claim, because there are 3 slots that it is exactly in, and then most of the other slots have tracker/doc which both go with JK. also, if we are in Row C, that means there is either a jail keeper and cit, in which case jail keeper should cc, cop which should CC, or tracker and doc, both which work with it, so in this case no one else would CC and it would be a perfect world for scum.
this was a legit non-JK slip

Ichronicdemon
wtf m8? Naked vote, first post of the game, NOT ANNOUNCING L-1!!!
oh gawd. This AtE is legit.
oh gawd. This Sheep. LOL.
Then he tries to pass it off as a random Lynch and ask if you aren’t supposed to Rando???????


Teacher-
legit mind-meld bruh. Honestly have a null-townlean just for this
strengthen it boi
is it bad that every post of yours I think your townier?
I lol’d at the part of obv.towning, and the part about motivations struck me as towny, so I like that too.
town, about treating them as the same.
I like trying to get discussion/interactions going
agree with all of this and is town
the 89% is not true, because of what I said to ugly duck
I low-key stopped writing teacher’s posts down because I’m not sure if he can obv.town

Lefty-
ummm
can you explain them? Especially sunny.
then make concrete evidence so that you can make a read and don’t stick with gut
proactive /=/ town
this post pings me because you say you cant have a slam dunk case D1? Well I’ve had multiple times where I’ve hammered scum D1 because a single case. It is a thing and you can be quite confident. I do not like this post coming from someone with experience. Its literally like “Oh, you cant have a good case D1, so if you come up with something I’m just gonna ignore it because it wont be good”




Legit im dying rn. ive been typing notes for ~fucking 2 hours.
i think im caught up through around page 11 or 12 and just posting here so i dont lose all my stuff on stupid pages
-10 scum equity


Step 5: We consider Zito-->HWS/Sun

Spoiler:
In post 78, Papa Zito wrote:
In post 77, Sunlit Diamond wrote:I'm pretty damn sure Chronic just used the wrong words to describe RVS (i.e. did not actually mean he wanted to randomly lynch someone). He said this is his first game, and it's far from the first time I've seen newbies have vocabulary problems.

Took all of two seconds to come to that conclusion, so why push a vote instead of discuss what happened, Chardev?
That's a hell of an assumption to make and I'm confused why you'd leap to that conclusion instead of drawing out an actual answer.
Why does this not result in vote? Beyond that, only significant interaction among BOTH players.

+10 scum equity -- Zito forgets to engage his buddy most likely, or wants to let the lurker pal lurk


Step 6: We consider HWS/Sun-->Zito

Spoiler:
In post 364, HeWhoSwims wrote:So teacher and CT are my biggest townleans right now so I'm gonna leave ISOing them behind for now. Same for UglyDuck since the claim is almost undoubtedly true. Obviously not ISOing Sunlit Diamond either.

Zito

then are really the first times I see game content. The rest seems more banter or IC stuff (which of course is NAI)
I'm on his side of the Chardev debate with CT - I dunno if any of the stuff CT listed is really scum indicative or lynchworthy ya know? But I don't really fault CT for that at this point.
The point about readslists and this maybe helping scum seems like a good point to me. Small towncred here. Aside from towncred (obviously) I don't think scum!Zito and his partner really profit off of this if that makes sense.
His arguments against Ct's case on Duck are solid but idk if I really wanna see that as alignment indicative. Scum could do that too.
reads like a flimsy attack/accusation. Stuff and reads change.
After this a bunch of asking around and theory talk which isn't scummy per se but I'd like more reads. What do you make of Chardev's case and the arguments in it?

More later!
This doesn't really amount to much now does it?
In post 588, HeWhoSwims wrote:Oh, sorry CT.

If I have to divide into tiers itd be like

[Teach, Duck]
[CT]
[Chardev, (Zito)]
[(Zito), Reck]
[Sky]

I'd say I need to re assess Zito and Chardev as those are the most wobbly so to say. Don't see a lot of explicit pro town there but nothing
that
incriminating either.
+2 scum equity
In post 786, HeWhoSwims wrote:I think it's Zito mostly by flipping Sky and Reck town... Should I hammer? Intent, etc, but do we wait?
+3 scum equity


Step 7: We solve. The scum is HWS.

Step 8: You sheep my vote and we win.

Vote HWS


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Post Post #813 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:13 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

i am kinda not though

Anyway I am doing my final bit of travelling today so ya expect more from me. Sorry.
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Post Post #814 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:06 am

Post by HeWhoSwims »

First of all for Krazy - why the -10 scum equity on that huuge list? All the stuff said about Zito is "ya I think he's town" and I don't see how that'd clear Chardevslot.

What do you mean by the "don't amount to much"?
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Post Post #815 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:32 pm

Post by brassherald »

Votecount 4.03

HeWhoSwims (1) -
Krazy
Not Voting (4) -
HeWhoSwims, teacher, Eragon

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
Day 4 ends in (expired on 2018-08-23 17:30:00)

I am phone posting so will add the usual post links at a later time.
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Post Post #816 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:16 pm

Post by teacher »

Prodge. Welcome Krazy. Thanks and I will respond in the day tomorrow.
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Post Post #817 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:23 pm

Post by Eragon »

prodge as well
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Post Post #818 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:01 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

In post 7, Chardev wrote:VOTE: Papa Zito for being the IC.
In post 9, Chardev wrote:
In post 8, Completly Trustworthy wrote:There is a higher chance the IC will be town than scum, there is no reason to vote for them before they have done anything suspicious.
No higher so than any other person. Also:

>Random votes for a person
>Grumps at someone else for random voting for a person
In post 65, Chardev wrote:UNVOTE: Papa Zito

Avoiding potential shitlynch. iChronicdemonic, please be more careful with your voting, and state the reasoning in your post. Sheeping is considered scummy, and Chronic has not been helpful, at all, so
suspicion levels for iChronicdemonic increased by 20%
.

CT, I can't read minds, but Zito probably is thinking that those who defy math are scummy. (And, well, he does have a point.)
As for Chardev - this reads like a weak "distancing" vote which he retracts. Zito is barely mentioned after this except in a readlist. Here, he is a "slight townlean, appears to be solving the game but I can't get much from him" which is honestly hot air to me. (as in, there are words, but what do they say)

Also there's the case on UglyDuck which has wacko reasoning. Thoughts on this? It can definitely fit into a Char!scum scenario as ~effortposting~ while already knowing his alignment anyways.
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Post Post #819 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:06 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

There's also not that much from Zito->Char aside from quoting something and asking others what they think, and the deconstruction of Chardev's case which... seems to fail to result in an actual read by Zito.
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Post Post #820 (ISO) » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:20 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Then for Eragon.

seems to be his first "real" post after like.. 8 fluff ones.
Also his defense of Zito here doesn't go beyond "Yes. This is town" like... what dude

I am also not a very big fan of his reading of sky. He picks her ISO apart when she's at L-1 and the target for the day but fails to get anything out of it. Seems to me like not wanting to commit to a read here? However I'd ask myself why scumragon wouldn't try to defend her if a) his scumbuddy is on the wagon and b) sky is gonna flip town after being wagoned pretty hard.
In post 662, Eragon wrote:
ALIVE

Completly Trustworthy
Eragon
UglyDuck
teacher
HeWhoSwims
Papa Zito

Town Core

Eragon
UD?
Teacher

LEAVING


CT, HeWhoSwims, Papa Zito.
in this bracket we have a ⅔ chance of hitting scum, and on the short amount of ISO I have done(just a couple posts of HWS) Im not really liking it


VOTE: HeWhoSwims
Weird post. All he had on Zito before this was that he was town, and when asked about it he quoted his earlier reads. The hell happened? Moving Zito to the lynchpool but not doing anything there could fit the narrative of putting a little bit of distancing heat on his partner but not actually doing anything.
In post 689, Eragon wrote:I can't wait for HWS and Papa start attacking me, the only person possible to mis-lynch LMAO

come at me hard m8s
This is LAMIST to me. He's now 100% on board with me being scum - as he has no other option at this point - and the same goes for PapaZ.

After this there's a bit of doubting what even happened / overthinking the claim business (last ditch effort to save Zito?) followed by putting Zito on L-1 because again he has no other option. (Related note, I suspect my apathy to vote or put a vote on the Zito wagon may be used by Eragon here)

So ya that's what I have now. Aside from quite some fluffposting.
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Post Post #821 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:06 pm

Post by brassherald »

Votecount 4.04

HeWhoSwims (1) -
Krazy
Not Voting (4) -
HeWhoSwims, teacher, Eragon

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
Day 4 ends in (expired on 2018-08-23 17:30:00)

I am phone posting so will add the usual post links at a later time.
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Post Post #822 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:19 pm

Post by Krazy »

I was hoping to come in, throw down one post and call this game, but I guess y'all gotta sit there and prodge. ZZZ
In post 814, HeWhoSwims wrote:First of all for Krazy - why the -10 scum equity on that huuge list? All the stuff said about Zito is "ya I think he's town" and I don't see how that'd clear Chardevslot.

What do you mean by the "don't amount to much"?
Your posts do not actually seem to develop into a read. -10 scum equity is because Eragon put the read in the context of an attempted solve, which is town indicative.
In post 819, HeWhoSwims wrote:There's also not that much from Zito->Char aside from quoting something and asking others what they think, and the deconstruction of Chardev's case which... seems to fail to result in an actual read by Zito.
I agree. Zito's attitude toward Eragon's slot is scummy. Unfortunately for you, his attitude toward your slot is even scummier.

Like, I'm not kidding myself here. There's no 100% certainty in this matter. We are faced with a choice between two totally viable candidates. But I gamble on your slot every single time, HWS. Zito hard ignores your slot, you seem to not know what to do with him, you're IC in another game but you can't figure out whether you should hammer him here, and Eragon is over there actively wrong early game but also way more involved, trying to solved, and figuring out who the remaining viable candidates are.

It could be that you both have flipped metas, that you only try when you're scum and Eragon tries really hard when he's scum, and that is the risk we have to take, but the gamble never gets any better than it does right now.
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Post Post #823 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:48 pm

Post by HeWhoSwims »

Being an IC doesn't equal having good reads though, that's evidenced by me scumreading Sky and Reck and both flipping town back to back. If you go down that route you could say if Zitos attitude towards me is scummy, I must not be scum, as Zito should know better... Don't see ya doing that. Also Eragon was the only viable option for me as soon as reck died as I townread CT (fully believe doc claim), duck is claimed and teacher is obvtown
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Post Post #824 (ISO) » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:49 pm

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On top of that the hammer doubt wasn't because I wasn't suspecting Zito but because I wanted to know if the others wanted to end the day already

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