Mini Normal 2030: Day 8

[Crimson97]

I see Manatee is already getting voted. Good.

[Crimson97]

UNVOTE: ManateeDude
VOTE: Pernicious Parrot for too much parroting.

Aww. I wanted to start like an actual wagon on him.

VOTE: Manatee

[Crimson97]

How come

I just want to shake him a bit. Manatee is difficult to read because he's scummy as both town and scum.

[Crimson97]

Dunno him

I know him from another site. I don't know how much he has played here.

Why is your avi a Snorlax but your name "Parrot"?

The guy on your avi doesn't look too krazy to me :think:

[Crimson97]

How come

I just want to shake him a bit. Manatee is difficult to read because he's scummy as both town and scum.

Im scummy as town and scum when I have low wim, which is fortunately not the case here!

Good to know that, i'm expecting to more from you then.

Also yeah, explaining what i'm exactly trying to do kinda defeats the whole purpose of it but i can do it if you guys really want me to.

[Crimson97]

And btw what i'm trying to do with Mana is not some super complicated or elaborated plan, it's very simple really.

Saudade is making a big deal out of a single post. I'd be nice to get some clarification from Rocky on his read tho but i want to see more from them before i can judge.

[Crimson97]

might be as i read ahead a bit before jumping back to try and follow logic chains... but I wasn't feeling any redness from Saudade

But I was hence the vote. His reactions don’t feel genuine to me and he’s got a bad attitude so that pings me.

what even is... give a reason for this >_<

We are neighbors and his first attempt at game discussion is asking if I’m a Pr. Since I don’t know his alignment and he supposedly doesn’t know mine, that is a question that should never be asked.

I don't think coming to the thread was the right thing to do but i'll admit that was definitely a bad question. You should have waited fro him to post more in thread.

[Crimson97]

And btw what i'm trying to do with Mana is not some super complicated or elaborated plan, it's very simple really.

Saudade is making a big deal out of a single post. I'd be nice to get some clarification from Rocky on his read tho but i want to see more from them before i can judge.

when did I make a big deal out of a single post
and what post was that

Pretty much everything you said about Rocky's one post. It was a weak post but not that terrible. I wish he had explained his thoughts better before replacing out, i wanted to hear his thoughsts as to why exactly that post felt weird.

I dont know, Rocky's post seems to be of no substance but to announce themselves into the game "casually"

Also i don't think that was meant to be a casual entrance, judging by the fact that he even voted.

[Crimson97]

So far i'm feeling Dougboy v Sausade is TvT

[Crimson97]

So far i'm feeling Dougboy v Sausade is TvT

talk to me about why?

I like doughboy's reaction to krazy's question. Even if it was not the best thing to do i think it was honest, same with his frustration towards Saudade.

Saudade doesn't feel restrained. He posts was he thinks and is very casual which also like. And i think the points he makes when saying that he has no reason to fake not knowing neighbor and voting and not explaining your vote is antitown are correct.

[Crimson97]

And btw what i'm trying to do with Mana is not some super complicated or elaborated plan, it's very simple really.

Saudade is making a big deal out of a single post. I'd be nice to get some clarification from Rocky on his read tho but i want to see more from them before i can judge.

Plan results???

I mostly wanted to take him out of his confort zone and force him to pay attention to the thread to give some early opinions. Yeah he's scummy no matter what but that doesn't mean that everything he does can be explained like that, town is going to be honest about their opinions while scum will fake them and by asking questions and going deeper i wanted to find something AI. However he hasn't really posted much and so far i really wouldn't mind him being a PL.

Manatee please post opinions or something, something town can work with.

[Crimson97]

Krazy did you ever explain why you asked Dougboy if he was a PR.

[Crimson97]

I guess right now i'm scumleaning on Mana just because of that lack of reaction but he hasn't done anything to completely convince me he's scum.

[Crimson97]

305.

What's your read of Frank?

Alright fair enough.

I could see Frank being Manatee's scumbuddy judging from earlier posts.

Dont really like Sauds reaction to votes, and I haven't exactly been getting town vibes from him anyway.
VOTE: Saud

This vote also comes seemingly out of nowhere because he never explains how Saudade had already been scummy before his reaction to the vote.

I wasn't saying that Saud's play wasn't questionable (he's probably town this game but I get why some people don't like his style), I was saying "if anyone disagrees say so" strikes me as a scummy way to push your read. If anyone disagrees they will say so. Asking for them to disagree makes it seem to me like you're worried Sau actually flips green and you want to be talked out of your push while seeming active. Your push on Sau reads more like "I want to look busy" than "I want to lynch scum."

Yea he literally threatened to run up a wagon on the next person to vote him. Scummy claim in itself. But that doesnt seem like a spot to go to "look busy". Looking busy entails not actually being busy. Its obvious me voting him wasn't going to afford me any sort of coasting.

That also goes to you calling him an "easy push". I still dont quite know whayt you meant by that.

He also twisted Saudade's words here. He said that he'd run a wagon on the next person to vote WITHOUT EXPLAINING.

Yeah could definitely see him being scum.

[Crimson97]

Since i got asked what i thought about Naomi v Flavor

Note: As I all most accidentally did it while typing I just wanted to say if I accidentally call town Blue instead of green It's just cause on another site I play on its red vs blue not green.

I dont think asking someone why is he coming down so hard is appropriate

Yup its not, I was just trying to push out of RVS.

How come

I just want to shake him a bit. Manatee is difficult to read because he's scummy as both town and scum.

Can you explain this a little more?

1)He doesnt explain how "shaking him a bit" would help differentiate townmanatee vs scummanatee.

2) how is it particularly useful here, when by his words, "hes scummy as both town and scum"?

I would just like an elaboration.

@Saudade

How was the statement clear? Im not saying it was necessarily scummy, but it left alot to be desired.

This seems more bad play to me than alignment indicative

Scummy twitchy or towny twitchy

It'a my first game outside of a newbie setting. How does a twitchy act?

just a britisism, means there quick to act or jumpy.

VOTE: saudade
Gut is pinging me here.

might be as i read ahead a bit before jumping back to try and follow logic chains... but I wasn't feeling any redness from Saudade

@Saudade - should we vote Rocky or Dough?

Both are worthy of being voted right now.

FOS: Flavor Leaf, Just not keen on how his first post (that wasn't a blank RVS vote) was budding up to someone who was definitely trending Green.

VOTE: ManateeDude

Gutscum

I've seen scum self vote in RVS more than town.

Hello, everyone. I am moderately new to Mafia.

VOTE: profii

Town negative utility should claim.

Wtf is this

Selflynch is gamethrow unless you're jester/mime

Oh wait you're just noob okay

oh no

This feels weird

VOTE: Saudade

I mean this is one of the worst posts I've seen in a while
absolutely null with a "feels weird" vote at the end

Yeah I agree that its such a lot of null

I dont know, Rocky's post seems to be of no substance but to announce themselves into the game "casually"

Fair, but why is that more likely to come from scum than town?

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

So... as mentioned he entered being paly towards Saudade who I have a nice green vibe off of, then proceeds to question everything he says..
It just.. doesn't gel with me like... its just off... feels off.. I expect someone with more experiance can more eloquently put this train of thought.

VOTE: Saudade

Serious vote

I dislike this on principal. You have a serious vote for someone but give no context or reasoning behind this. how are we meant to iso and get reads on you if you won't give your reasoning and express your idea's

I think my responses are the most natural ones on this site

Why would you be trying to look neutral.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8ws_APXilE
But I think your coming off helpful and are contributing to the game

I'm inclined to vote whoever didnt post yet as these people annoy me the most

Missed this

UNVOTE:

This doesn't negate me wanting your reasoning by the by.

VOTE: Krazy

Serious vote.

what even is... give a reason for this >_<


So overall Im getting the following reads currently

Bad green: Doughboy - Generally I can't see his posts being used my reds to push greens, just seems too flaily
Green leaning: Saudade - Helpful and contributing
Red leaning: Flavor Leaf - Complicated, I just dislike his interactions overall

The others I have no strong reads on so, post more if you would.

Naomi's initial read on Flavor is contradictory. First she says that Flavor is budding with Saudade but also questions him. This is scummy because it "feels off"? I don't really see it.Was she expecting Flavor to follow Saudade blindly? Would it had been townie or NAI had they done that?

Lol.

You wanna play hardball? Let’s go.

Your entire case on me is based on me coming into the game voting someone who you are pinging green. It was the top of page 2.
It was an RVS vote. This is further proven by when Saudade gets wagoned, I move off of him onto someone else.

Out of this player list, and history with Saudade, of course I’m going to RVS Saudade. I feel even he saw that as a nothing RVS vote, and when he posted “this is all Flavor’s fault” I felt a little giddy, because his wagon was obviously not going to be hard pushed at that point, and he knew my vote was RVS.

It was literally my first post in the game, and the top of page 2.

And you quoted a post i said asking Saudade a question about why it’s more likely to come from scum than town and assuming I am pushing Saudade as scum?

I’m not pushing Saudade as scum. In fact, if you want to look at my other posts, you can clearly see I was trying to work WITH Saudade about the people who were voting him after me. Saudade is an early town read for me right now.

Literally every single point you just true to make against me has been made completely moot, which personally, I feel was already an incredibly reach case made a step context clues and my posts show that literally nothing you said was accurate.

You also hid it in the middle of your giant fluff post.

VOTE: Naomi

This isn’t an OMGUS. You don’t have a case on me. You aren’t scum reading me. All those reasons have been proven the opposite.

Flavor's response is kinda poor tho, adressing things that Naomi hadn't even mentioned to disprove her points.

Looking at the other posts it looks like Naomi ignores aspects of Flavor's posts in order to further her read. I think Flavor's strategy of considering everyine green at the start is a legitimate strategy. How effective that strategy is idk but i've seen several town use it along with assuming everyone's scum.

From only looking at this confrontation i get a TvS vibe, leaning towards Naomi being the scum because i feel like her reads are not completely honest.

[Crimson97]

That's ...not the kind of spoiler i wanted to use. Sorry for the wall.

[Crimson97]

Okay now Im all read up just wanted to do a quick read list

Crimson97: Yeah dislike this hard push since the start of the game on a lurker who has done practically nothing. its really safe, but also rather icky and the whole thing in 554 has me freaked out

Doughboy: bad town, but also a little paranoid that hes the last part of the Crimson, Light trinity. I haven't done an iso to see how that all lines up as i'm running out of time but there was one thing that pingged me (the same one that made me come up with the theory that there red) I don't think its true but its like a nagging at the back of my mind

Flavor leaf: our little fight at the start of the game and the fact no one joined or cared about that train makes me think I engaged a TvT so I think there Green

Frankjaeger: No idea.. Null i guess? I just dunno about them at all right now, lots of people been saying stuff but I dunno.. probs need to give them an iso and update you next time I get a moment

Krazy: said a dumb joke, might be green, might be red. null right now need more out of them to make a clear choice but I do appreciate there position at least, making dumb choices has gotten me a lot of heat before.

Light ehtos: lurking with safe stuff and the weird crimson connection.. keeping my vote here for now

ManateeDude: this guy has been largely absent but not in a red way. there not coming in doing a single post with like a paragraph everyday or so for example it seems like guinange apathy or busyness, wouldn't be shocked if they replace out due to not having the time to commit, not that im advocating for that, hopefully they can be more active over the weekend.

Pernicious Parrot: can't remember them at all, so obviously they need to be more active. I would rather have them make a big catch up post than be disappointed by like 1 comment somewhere in the future.

Profil: converse more

Sashaddin: definitely get a lost vibe from them, but thats okay given there still learning. hope that they find there place and work things out before there lack of experience catches up to them. most likely to be a D3 push by red (if they are not red).

Saudade: eh kinda flipped out at the worst, probably frustrated town right now but I don't want to get involved.

The worst: Maybe green? I can tell there catching up and stuff given they questioned stuff on page 2 yesterday and I still don't think there upto present properly. giving them a little bit of space for now. i can see them engaging with others and trying to question people but we'll see how they respond to my post earlier.

Profil again: Well that was a fun joke. I think there contributing okay though. I dunno if the 2 words thing is a post restriction or a self imposed thing but they do seem to be pointing at stuff and the 2 words are kinda working for me. they could definitely be talking more and I think it would be beneficial to do so, but I've come around from disliking it to finding it okay. you can see a thought process is going on so I guess thats effective in its own way. I just wish they would more actively engage in stuff.

Agree with Dough, Flavor,Krazy,Parrot,Shaddadin and profii. The worst i might agree but i haven't really read him yet.

Manatee is normally just scummy in the ToS forum, not a lurker. I wanted to press him but i couldn't have predicted he'd go afk.

[Crimson97]

Although i did have a newbie game with Manatee in this site where he was replaced out but i thought that was an exception.

[Crimson97]

No, we haven't. You thought you saw something and looked for posts to support your confirmation bias.
Some important details that you missed: I incorrectly added Crimson to the Neighborhood that Krazy and Doughboy were talking about because I misunderstood Crimson's interaction with them. I care about being factually correct, so if Crimson and I were in any kind of PT together, I definitely would have asked about that interaction before posting in this thread.
Second: I can't get the guy to answer a simple question about what his read on the interaction between you and Flavor Leaf. Surely, I could ping him in a PT to get him to crawl out of his hole and answer the question.

Third: I'm frustrated that Crimson is tunneling on someone who isn't here.

No i haven't.I pushed him at the beginning, most of my other posts about him are just me explainning what i was exactly doing with that push and giving my conclusion. I have him more than an IRL day to do something convince me he was town and all he did was say i was scum. I'm not trying to attack someone who can't defend themselves my any means.

[Crimson97]

UNVOTE: Manatee For now.
I'll wait fro the next VC before voting again.

I agree with Saudade's sentiment that the worst was just "cruising" at first but he seems to be getting better now with reads and he claimed gunsmith so no way i'm voting a pr claim D1.

[Crimson97]

Hey, imma catch up. If you want my opinion on something that happened since i last posted just ask.

[Crimson97]

Why is skipping RVS and hardlurking NAI? Why is posting nothing but placeholder votes NAI? Like you're so certain that Manatee and Frank are town but you are not explaining why you reach that conclusion. I have looked at the other games of each player and I have questions about how they're approaching this game. If you think it is scummy to push those slots for that reason then you are misguided. And if you think I'm scummy because I make my lists visually appealing... anyway sure do your thing, whatever man.

Skipping RVS is definitely NAI.Some people just don't like or come too late for it. Lurking depends on each case.

[Crimson97]

Because refusing to commit to RVS or to push people with votes indicates you are afraid of the town and more interested in avoiding being lynched then finding scum. This is exactly how Toranaga plays scum and it's fairly similar to how Texcat plays scum (and sometimes? Gamma, but Gamma is a separate case). This is why I shot Toranaga in 2024 and I was correct then. Right now I see Frank playing to a meta that is similar to how he played Serial Killer and similar to how Toranaga plays scum and I'm not seeing any reasons to think he's town. Why is he town?

Frank is not you. You might lurk, you might not lurk, but you do not form townblocks like you have here as scum. You play to different metas, and the only use of meta is understanding how and why a player approaches a game the way they do. It's not just that skipping RVS is ALWAYS scummy, it's that skipping RVS for FRANK is scummy.

It's literally called Random Voting Stage. Scum isn't afraid of voting because they don't have to justify it, your vote is not gonna get questioned unless you let it be questioned..

[Crimson97]

769 Is just ew, given how even me and flavour have came to the conclusion it was TvT (as well as the rest from what I gather) It reads poorly. It feels like he just ignored our posts at that time as the accusations made in 769 look like some pretty major points you'd want to bring up WAY sooner. Seeing a 'contradictory' post in the first 100 posts of the game and entirely ignoring it for over 600 other posts is just...

VOTE: Crimson

There's no way a green member would ignore this.
Also going with my hidden link theory this matches up with it, im pressuring one of them (LE) so yeah..

I'm neither you or Flavour. Am i not allowed to have a different opinion.

[Crimson97]

Alright, so I just learned that Naomi doesn't know how probability works. Did she really just try to tell me that if there are 3 red players in a game of 13 players, that 30% of the players are red? If you're going to write at me in a condescending tone about something factual, at least be correct. Yikes.

I'm flipping green this game. To all who read that exchange, if Crimson flips red, Naomi-Tan is a scum partner. There is no way that someone who is town puts that much effort into misrepresenting another player's ISO when there is plenty of town motivation for drawing activity out of the players who are not contributing to the game at all. I gave you an explicit post with numbers to support the opinion that it's important that we hear from those players before the game ends so that they have a paper trail. You misrepresent a post with labeled numbers on it to try to make your reachy case on me.

I'll go out and say red!Naomi, and I'm alright with everyone flipping me green first if it's necessary to be sure that I'm not just trying to get an active green killed early.

You're trying to pin me to Manatee and Crimson? Really? That's what you came up with? Not any of the other players' logic that I've been acting on? I was willing to take the brunt of the pressure for the vote on the worst because saudade made that vote and gave a compelling reason as to why others should press him into action. I've liked Doughboy's votes this game and specifically said that Manatee was also a good vote while I had my vote elsewhere. I've been frustrated at all of the inactive players, and that is where the vast majority of my frustration as been placed. My main challenge to you about your insistence that I am scum is that we can't be content to ignore the possibility that at least one of the inactive players is scum, and I have been insistent that we can't ignore all of those players.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

The fact that she inmediately went with a three
people mafia instead of speculating about its size is TMI actually.

[Crimson97]

Alright, so I just learned that Naomi doesn't know how probability works. Did she really just try to tell me that if there are 3 red players in a game of 13 players, that 30% of the players are red? If you're going to write at me in a condescending tone about something factual, at least be correct. Yikes.

I'm flipping green this game. To all who read that exchange, if Crimson flips red, Naomi-Tan is a scum partner. There is no way that someone who is town puts that much effort into misrepresenting another player's ISO when there is plenty of town motivation for drawing activity out of the players who are not contributing to the game at all. I gave you an explicit post with numbers to support the opinion that it's important that we hear from those players before the game ends so that they have a paper trail. You misrepresent a post with labeled numbers on it to try to make your reachy case on me.

I'll go out and say red!Naomi, and I'm alright with everyone flipping me green first if it's necessary to be sure that I'm not just trying to get an active green killed early.

You're trying to pin me to Manatee and Crimson? Really? That's what you came up with? Not any of the other players' logic that I've been acting on? I was willing to take the brunt of the pressure for the vote on the worst because saudade made that vote and gave a compelling reason as to why others should press him into action. I've liked Doughboy's votes this game and specifically said that Manatee was also a good vote while I had my vote elsewhere. I've been frustrated at all of the inactive players, and that is where the vast majority of my frustration as been placed. My main challenge to you about your insistence that I am scum is that we can't be content to ignore the possibility that at least one of the inactive players is scum, and I have been insistent that we can't ignore all of those players.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

The fact that she inmediately went with a three
people mafia instead of speculating about its size is TMI actually.

I disagree. I think it’s safe to assume 3 Mafia until other stuff in the game comes up that shows otherwise in a 13p game.

Is that the standard ?

[Crimson97]

Flavor and Mana's slot aren't both on a scum team imo. I don't see scum defending an inactive buddy as much as Flavor did. I think that:
A)Both are town
B)Flavor legimiately thinks Mana is town, but Mana is scum.
C)Flavor is scum who was trying to pocket Mana.

Yeah. It can vary, but generally mini’s have 3 scum, bar multiball.

Ok.

[Crimson97]

Why wouldn’t scum respond?

Not knowing how to? From what I can tell he’s been scum on site twice. Both times he’s replaced out. Haven’t looked too see if he has replaced out as town but maybe he doesn’t know how to be scum?

One can argue that his teammates would help him with that tho but i kinda agree with this.

[Crimson97]

I’m the towniest person here.

Right, you’re the village idiot here so it’s like obv town for you. Got it.

Why the insults? Why can’t I just have a different opinion?

Wish people would be civil.

When you start using logic, then sure. I’m not going to approve of crap logic and a policy lynch. I’m super against that, and think it’s terrible play.

I’m using logic. You are also using logic. We use logic based on our own ideas of how players play and more importantly experience. To insult me by saying I’m an idiot and not using logic is really crossing the line.

First saudade, now you.

Y’all want to bully me? Fine.

mod request replacement

This game isn’t a friendly environment anymore.

P.edit. You’ll have to vote whoever replaces me.

Later guys.

Shame, i actually liked you :/.

[Crimson97]

You guys are effectively describing a policy lynch, and acting like that’s not what it is. That is terrible. This is a scum driven wagon, and through that, you can see that Manatee is town.

and ironically the best policy lynch available is Dough lol

No

[Crimson97]

hilariously, my role is the same role I fakeclaimed in my last scumgame. T_T

Interesting.

I’m probably gonna green ducky then.

Krazy’s still scum. Sasha backed off real fast, so might be green.

Light Ethos is just odd.

How does a previous game affect this one?

[Crimson97]

Well was meant to do this ealier today, but here we go, another round of me spamming theorising ect.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

Prove it.

Sure. Flip me green now.
VOTE: Light Ethos

Don't self vote. Literally pointless and is scummy af.

[Crimson97]

Flavor and Mana's slot aren't both on a scum team imo. I don't see scum defending an inactive buddy as much as Flavor did. I think that:
A)Both are town
B)Flavor legimiately thinks Mana is town, but Mana is scum.
C)Flavor is scum who was trying to pocket Mana.

Yeah. It can vary, but generally mini’s have 3 scum, bar multiball.

Ok.

C is pointless considering the slot was inactive.

Not if you're planning to let him live. Which is very possbiel, i don't see scum targeting Mana if he's town.

[Crimson97]

Flavor and Mana's slot aren't both on a scum team imo. I don't see scum defending an inactive buddy as much as Flavor did. I think that:
A)Both are town
B)Flavor legimiately thinks Mana is town, but Mana is scum.
C)Flavor is scum who was trying to pocket Mana.

Yeah. It can vary, but generally mini’s have 3 scum, bar multiball.

Ok.

C is pointless considering the slot was inactive.

Not if you're planning to let him live. Which is very possbiel, i don't see scum targeting Mana if he's town.

Well i guess that can change now that he has replaced out but that hadn't happened at the time.

[Crimson97]

How does a previous game affect this one?

are you specifically looking for a response from FL because I nearly keyboard warrior'd this post

He suggests that you're green because you fake claimed gunsmith on a previous game. I really don't see the connection.

[Crimson97]

Well was meant to do this ealier today, but here we go, another round of me spamming theorising ect.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

Prove it.

Sure. Flip me green now.
VOTE: Light Ethos

Don't self vote. Literally pointless and is scummy af.

Why is it pointless? Why is it scummy?

You supposedly know you're town and shouldn't be wasting time on self voting. Only three times i've seen people self vote is:
-RVS.
-As noob scum to prove that they are not afraid of being lynched.
-As frustrated town. Most of the time this doesn't help and only worsens their image even more.

[Crimson97]

You probably can’t even explain why you’re putting me to red for having a different opinion.

Didn't move you to pure red, just a Fos. Why? Because, exactly, you have a different opinion than everyone and that you are very vocal and fervent about it. It makes me look like your with him. Not scummy in itself, more like guilt by association. If the others think Manatee is red, then you might be too from what I am seeing. Not accusing you formally, just seeing you as suspicious.

different doesn't always mean bad, having a view that differs from others shows your thinking about the game normally, it can also mean your defending someone for credit later on (called white knighting or WK for short) sometimes a differing view point leads to wagons like LE and sometimes it leads no where special, like profil. If your lucky you can also strike a TvT up where by the end your certain you was dealing with a green (like I did with flavour, though that wasn't a major diffing as not much had happened)

Sometimes it can also be used as a reaction test, but I'll let someone else explain that.

As for chainsawing, thats a term used when you attack someone who is attacking your partner. by making them look worse you can start a counter trian or just make people doubt the validity of the push. it could also be called trying to discredit i guess.

Oh so it's ok for Sasha to have a different opinion but if think Flavor v you is TvS then i'm scum?

[Crimson97]

Who self votes and honestly expects it to go as far as a lynch, especially as like 2nd on the wagon or whatever silliness that was

I bet I can self vote and go afk for the rest of the day and not get lynched

most likely.

but the only reasons I know for self vote is red's self hammering to shut down discussion early.

After this game, you'll see that this is an example of a green self-voting to give credibility to a suspicion of a player that misrepresented posts to make a case. Nobody has you as scum. To my knowledge, only Krazy has you as possible scum. You've been very loud this game and had the good fortune of having a nice back and forth with someone who is town early enough in the game that it bought you credibility. It would take a lot to shake your credibility this game, and a green flip on me would do that.

I also think Naomi's possible scum from her interaction with Flavor.

@Crimson:
1. What's your take on the ongoing disagreement between Naomi and me?
2. Do you lean town on Flavor Leaf after his push on Krazy?

Some posts from Naomi are solid buty overall i don't really like her.
Flavor feels like misguided town to me.

[Crimson97]

Hey i'm still here. Kinda busy with some stuff now but i'll post later.

[Crimson97]

Don't focus on why you are town, that's scum mentality.
focus on why someone else is scum

I can see where you're coming from but I don't fully agree with this. Redirecting attention towards someone else can be a scum tactic too.

I don't really like the way Leaf defends Sasha too but I don't really have an opinion on Sasha.

[Crimson97]

Flavor and Mana's slot aren't both on a scum team imo. I don't see scum defending an inactive buddy as much as Flavor did. I think that:
A)Both are town
B)Flavor legimiately thinks Mana is town, but Mana is scum.
C)Flavor is scum who was trying to pocket Mana.

Yeah. It can vary, but generally mini’s have 3 scum, bar multiball.

Ok.

C is pointless considering the slot was inactive.

Not if you're planning to let him live. Which is very possbiel, i don't see scum targeting Mana if he's town.

Well i guess that can change now that he has replaced out but that hadn't happened at the time.

how does changing out change the alignment of a slot.

I meant that if Manatee's replacement is better, he might actually be targeted by mafia.

[Crimson97]

You probably can’t even explain why you’re putting me to red for having a different opinion.

Didn't move you to pure red, just a Fos. Why? Because, exactly, you have a different opinion than everyone and that you are very vocal and fervent about it. It makes me look like your with him. Not scummy in itself, more like guilt by association. If the others think Manatee is red, then you might be too from what I am seeing. Not accusing you formally, just seeing you as suspicious.

different doesn't always mean bad, having a view that differs from others shows your thinking about the game normally, it can also mean your defending someone for credit later on (called white knighting or WK for short) sometimes a differing view point leads to wagons like LE and sometimes it leads no where special, like profil. If your lucky you can also strike a TvT up where by the end your certain you was dealing with a green (like I did with flavour, though that wasn't a major diffing as not much had happened)

Sometimes it can also be used as a reaction test, but I'll let someone else explain that.

As for chainsawing, thats a term used when you attack someone who is attacking your partner. by making them look worse you can start a counter trian or just make people doubt the validity of the push. it could also be called trying to discredit i guess.

Oh so it's ok for Sasha to have a different opinion but if think Flavor v you is TvS then i'm scum?

YES! it was such an obvious interaction that most people just kept away anyway and let it play out. I worked it out in short order and just bared the heat of Leaf for a while for it.

It's not really that obvious. Can you point me at an specific post that proves that it was That?

[Crimson97]

Spoiler:

Well was meant to do this ealier today, but here we go, another round of me spamming theorising ect.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

Prove it.

Sure. Flip me green now.
VOTE: Light Ethos

Don't self vote. Literally pointless and is scummy af.

Why is it pointless? Why is it scummy?

You supposedly know you're town and shouldn't be wasting time on self voting. Only three times i've seen people self vote is:
-RVS.
-As noob scum to prove that they are not afraid of being lynched.
-As frustrated town. Most of the time this doesn't help and only worsens their image even more.

*sighs* I'm pretty frustrated by your play, Naomi.
If you flip green this game, I'll be very upset.

Well was meant to do this ealier today, but here we go, another round of me spamming theorising ect.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

Prove it.

Sure. Flip me green now.
VOTE: Light Ethos

Nobody has paid any attention to the possibility that you're red, Naomi, and if you're green, your long-term history of trying to discredit me is not going to help me out later on.

I flip green, all of you go for Naomi-Tan.

You chose a good person to go after, red!Naomi.

It's going to take flipping me green to show town that you're red.

well shoot, I'm sorry I broke you. (not that i'm gonna stop pressuring) If your green it'll come out eventually hang in there. but my next post is gonna push on you probably as I saw you made a post that wasn't dead inside.

'NO FRUSTRATION HERE GUYS! HES TOTALLY RED, WHAT? THERE'S A WALL OF EVIDENCE RIGHT AFTER THE SELF VOTE AND BEFORE IT THAT SHOWS FRUSTRATION. OH JUST IGNORE THAT, HES TOTALLY NOT FRUSTRATED' - an interpretation of this 3rd point from crimsons perspective as;

Don't self vote. Literally pointless and is scummy af.

meaning he already discounted C or more likely there red, cause how the fuck do you miss that.

I never said she wasn't frustrated? I meant that self voting in general is scummy and pointless.

[Crimson97]

Hello, everyone. I am moderately new to Mafia.

VOTE: profii

Town negative utility should claim.

This is probtown

no.

Why not?

cause its post 7 in the RVS stage, and is innately NAI. you can't get town reads from there.

The fact that it's RVS doesn't take any credit away from it because it was a serious post. The second point I can agree with.

[Crimson97]

Flavor and Mana's slot aren't both on a scum team imo. I don't see scum defending an inactive buddy as much as Flavor did. I think that:
A)Both are town
B)Flavor legimiately thinks Mana is town, but Mana is scum.
C)Flavor is scum who was trying to pocket Mana.

Yeah. It can vary, but generally mini’s have 3 scum, bar multiball.

Ok.

C is pointless considering the slot was inactive.

Not if you're planning to let him live. Which is very possbiel, i don't see scum targeting Mana if he's town.

Well i guess that can change now that he has replaced out but that hadn't happened at the time.

how does changing out change the alignment of a slot.

I meant that if Manatee's replacement is better, he might actually be targeted by mafia.

... No? Player changes are NAI, no matter the skill level of said replacement.

I never say anything about NAI or AI. I'm saying that Manatee wasn't a good target for mafia because of his general inactivity and scuminess. That could change if his replacement starts acting townie and finding scum. Is that hard to understand?

[Crimson97]

I never said she wasn't frustrated? I meant that self voting in general is scummy and pointless.

ah so just tossing shade instead.

Yes if a player does something that i consider anti-town, i'll consider it.

[Crimson97]

@NT: What is up with Crimson? Did you just see him run through here replying to posts in ancient history? I guess the guy is trying to catch up so I should cut him some slack, well OK. What is your case on him then since you are leaving LE alone?

hes been like that all game, he is active lurking, read me as red for me and flavours early interaction, Pushed Mantantee for the entirety of the early game not looking else where (As far as I remember) and has had some horrific posts some of which you just saw come up in those quote blocks, but here are some others that really got under my skin.

769 which as I said in 846 "seeing a 'contradictory' post in the first 100 posts of the game and entirely ignoring it for over 600 other posts is just...

VOTE: Crimson

There's no way a green member would ignore this. "

I take a lot of issue with him right now.

. Just because you see something i don't see or vice versa in FL 's interactions with you it doesn't mean i'm scum. Again this is specially scummy because you told Sasha you welcomed different opinions. That combined wiht the fact that you were willing to give Sasha a pass for being new but not LE convinces me you're scum either in a scumteam with Sasha or trying to pocket them.

VOTE: Naomi

[Crimson97]

I am willing to lynch Crimson without question if he doesn't cooperate. I wil lynch Sasha immediately if he doesn't cooperate. LE will cooperate but needs to do so like in his next post(s).

You people listed above MUST post your top two scum suspects and vote them in your next posts or you will be wagoned today by all the active cooperating players!

Naomi and Frank
Also leaning scum with Manatee's slot.
Sasha depending on Naomi.

[Crimson97]

Alright Naomi is right about one thing I've been barely reading the thread. This is the third time i've tried to get into a game with a 2 week day and something about the really long days just doesn't click for me. And after the day got extended my WIM just nosedived into oblivion.

I replaced without even reading the thread but i decided to check it one last time and what would you know i'm the leading wagon. Something about it game me a a bit of a motivation boost. Now can someone tell me what's the case on me so i can prove them wrong?

[Crimson97]

Crimson hardclaim now

Town Doctor bby

[Crimson97]

Naomi IS scum
and i'm fairly sure Creature too. I really like where my vote is right now.

[Crimson97]

Unvote

Excuse me while I don't gasp in surprise when you have 0 crumbs.

Excuse me while i don't want to accidentaly lead mafia to me.

[Crimson97]

Tell me why you all were voting me come on. I want to defend myself.

[Crimson97]

They said you weren't reading the thread because you pretty clearly weren't reading the thread. They decided that was scummier than Manatee being obvious scum for some reason.

And why weren't you voting the obvious scum?

[Crimson97]

At least one scum and one town in [Naomi,Sasha, Creature and Krazy]

[Crimson97]

They said you weren't reading the thread because you pretty clearly weren't reading the thread. They decided that was scummier than Manatee being obvious scum for some reason.

If this is honestly your only argument it's weak af. Don't tell me Naomi started this. She's very clearly protecting Manatee and Sasha.

[Crimson97]

@Profii: This is a better case on Crimson made by Krazy:

I mean, Crimson is just a naturally passive player. Unfortunately he has no scum flips on site, so meta is not super helpful here. But I can say this game isn't dramatically out of line for his town games:

Here are all my scum games from another site:
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/vi ... 17&t=79051 Also my first game.
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/vi ... 46&t=86022 Unfortunately got rerolled, mafia was doing pretty well.
http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/vi ... 17&t=86854 Executioner, not mafia but still scum.

[Crimson97]

Vote Creature

Hey look the leading wagon is once again on scum

Why wasn't your vote on it then?

[Crimson97]

Vote Count 1.16

Saudade (3) -

FrankJaeger 239

,

Gamma Emerald

(UC Voyager, Pernicious Parrot)

2294

,

Mister Rogers

(doughboy)

2552

Naomi-Tan (2) -

The Worst

(RockyHorror)

1448

,

Crimson97 1764

Mister Rogers

(doughboy)

(1) -

profii 2456

Crimson97 (1) -

Naomi-Tan 1134

FrankJaeger (1) -

Flavor Leaf 2614

Sashaddin (1) -

Creature

(ManateeDude)

2459

The Worst

(RockyHorror)

(1) -

Light Ethos 2518

Creature

(ManateeDude)

(1) -

Krazy 2190

UNVOTE/Not Voting (2) -

Sashaddin 2496

,

Saudade 2547

Full vote record is in the OP.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-09-20 00:00:00).

Mod Notes

Naomi-Tan is V/LA for (expired on 2018-09-21 12:00:00).
Instead of mod killing the unfilled slots at the end of the game, I will just end this day and continue seeking replacements during the night. The new deadline for day 1 is in (expired on 2018-09-20 00:00:00).

I sincerely apologize for my poor handling of the game thus far; it's my first time modding and I wasn't sure what the best protocol was for handling some of these situations;I should have consulted others earlier on.

I know this VC is outdated but i'm pretty sure scum was in Saudade's wagon. Leaning for Frank here.

[Crimson97]

I'm still happy with my Naomi vote.I could switch to Sash, Creature, Frank or maybe Krazy but for no i'm staying on her.

[Crimson97]

UNVOTE: ManateeDude
VOTE: Pernicious Parrot for too much parroting.

Aww. I wanted to start like an actual wagon on him.

VOTE: Manatee

@Crimson: Why did you wait for this to vote Manatee? In other words, you say you wanted to get a wagon going on him, so why didn't you vote him in your first post?

It started as only a joke cause i know how scummy he is but then i decided it'd be a good idea to pressure him.

[Crimson97]

You may say your role is confirmable but if we have a Doc supposedly in the setup its not necessarily true. Also don't worry I will keep posting until you respond anyway.

Like, he said he was gonna shoot Creature if we don't lynch him today. Do you think Crimson TRs Creature enough to protect him from the claimed Vig shot? (Did Crimson argue about the Creature shot?)

P-edit: LOL. OK.. so you (Krazy) could be shooting the Doctor's protection. That said, it's still of a small chance to actually be the case (both you and Crimson targeting the same person) so let's hope you aim good.

P-edit, P-edit, P-edit.. posting this then reading

I don't think they're the best shot. Sash and Frank are better options imo but i wouldn't be totally against it either.

[Crimson97]

Oh wait you're Frank's replacement lol. Well i'll read you and see if you change my mind about the slot.

[Crimson97]

Crimson - can you give us your scum pool rn please?

Pretty much gave it in this post.

I'm still happy with my Naomi vote.I could switch to Sash, Creature, Frank or maybe Krazy but for no i'm staying on her.

Naomi, Sash and Creature would be my safest guess.Frank might be mafia too instead of Creature. Krazy just because i don't completely trust their claim but i don't really want to lynch them today.

[Crimson97]

Nice, i did absolutely nothing.

[Crimson97]

Honestly i'm just happy i got myself lynched instead of Creature cause it would have been awful for mafia if he was lynched. Accidental D1 hardbus FTW.

[Crimson97]

You mean tw right

Wait who replaced Manatee?

[Crimson97]

No i mean Creature, the hardbus was obvious if he was lynched and my doc claim wasn't sustainable. I just claimed to cause some chaos and hopefully give myself one more day.