Newbie 1888 | Stuff I Found Online IV | Over

[Mister Rogers]

@Draynth: So have you two been a hydra before? What does this "twin" stuff actually mean?

[Mister Rogers]

I just got done reading a full 200 page game with Worst in it. Am I missing something? Is there some reason we need to be pressuring this guy for no reason?

I don't like Hugo not wanting to take full responsibility for his vote, i.e. piggy-backing.

Vote: Hugo

Edited to add a : so the automated vote counter would recognise the vote

[Mister Rogers]

@Draynth: Mind if I ask what the difference is between an "inside joke" and a "regular joke"?

[Mister Rogers]

Well, excellent question. I actually was just thinking the same thing. I played two games on this site and just quit. What gets me is that its been like 5 years tho; can hardly believe that actually. >.<

[Mister Rogers]

I'm not worried about it but what I find strange is that Hugo is using your vote as the basis of something that is more serious, when its pretty obvious that your vote was simply RVS. Did you notice that, how he says "also"?

[Mister Rogers]

OK CORRECTION: I mean of course not your vote but Draynth's vote. My apologies for the mistake.

[Mister Rogers]

Any reason you are defending him?

[Mister Rogers]

Objectively you are doing both.

[Mister Rogers]

Maybe because he can defend himself?

[Mister Rogers]

@Mod:

I bolded my vote in post #12. Are you saying I MUST use the voite tags? I think they are ugly :"(

[Mister Rogers]

I find Hugo's creation of a Worst wagon unnaturally phrased. I don't find your argument against this to be accurate. He makes a team vote out of a single vote that is only his.

[Mister Rogers]

I'm not worried about it but what I find strange is that Hugo is using your vote as the basis of something that is more serious, when its pretty obvious that your vote was simply RVS. Did you notice that, how he says "also"?

Uh yeah because when someone else has already voted them i'm not the first??

Well, what exactly is your reason for voting Worst?

[Mister Rogers]

Good enough sir!

Unvote

[Mister Rogers]

So far Inferno we must agree to disagree but once again, I prefer to let the game flow naturally, rather than get into details about how I view RVS etc.

[Mister Rogers]

I don't like how you are so agreessively pursuing everything I say while holding your vote on a random person but I don't see how I can stop you since I am assuming it is simply your playstyle.

[Mister Rogers]

This is at least the third time you have ascribed motives to myself ragrding yourself that simply do not exist. Do you do this as town too?

[Mister Rogers]

Most of what you are criticizing me for revolve around RVS flow. You are saying that I am "shading" you for your defense of Hugo; regardless of your personal intentions (subjective) your actions (objective) are that you defended him. He even used a post where I had to elucidate in his response. Now we both ultiumately agree that he was simply RVS voting based on a particular game he is observing which explains his phrasing sufficiently but regarding RVS flow, I would have preferred to allow him to come in to a defense without an explanatory post for him to quote and see his defense in a naked state; do you see what I mean there?

Also, I would prefer not to quote RVS scum hunting techniques in the thread for the same reason; do you get my point there?

[Mister Rogers]

So far your actions are highly aggressive and you are objectively fabricating bad motives. The only thing stopping me from calling you scum is that you probably do this as town too.

[Mister Rogers]

We are both accusing ourselves opf the same thing, just in different words. :shrug:

[Mister Rogers]

I would recommend you re-read the posts you quoted to really understand what I mean by them.

[Mister Rogers]

Hello guys! This is my first game on the site, and I'm quite excited about it.

VOTE: Mister Rogers

Welcome to the game! It is definitely a tonne of fun!

1) What does "L-3" mean to you?
2) Any particular reason for your vote?
3) Where else have you played Mafia?

[Mister Rogers]

And this is the basic misunderstanding that drives your attack.

[Mister Rogers]

Unless you want to quote your scum meta where you only do this as scum.

[Mister Rogers]

I have reread them.
Multiple times.
And if I’m “objectively” defending Hugo, then you are “objectively” shading me.
Except it’s not objective. You’re posts are worded to shade me.

Again, we are both saying the same thing here.

[Mister Rogers]

You haven't read my posts as a homogenous whole and thus you have not understood what my posts actually mean.

[Mister Rogers]

I have reread them.
Multiple times.
And if I’m “objectively” defending Hugo, then you are “objectively” shading me.
Except it’s not objective. You’re posts are worded to shade me.

Again, we are both saying the same thing here.

No we are not. How is this in an indication in any way of us saying the same thing?

We both queried each other for REASONS. We both agree that those REASONS are potentially scummy. The only difference is you have gone one step further and objectively fabricated a motive concerning defending, where if you actually read all of my posts concerning RVS flow, it should be quite clear what I mean and how I mean it.

[Mister Rogers]

Look, you can't erase the fact that in my notes, you are potentially connected to Hugo here. Is this some kind of massive huge case on both of you that is iron clad evidence etc? No, of course not but if you take the time to understand what I mean by RVS flow and subtle scum hunting, you will clearly see that the timing of your query interfered with a possible read. Is it huge or massive? No but is it noteworthy? Of course and you can't erase it and neither will I, even if you get me lynched over it.

[Mister Rogers]

Hello guys! This is my first game on the site, and I'm quite excited about it.

VOTE: Mister Rogers

Welcome to the game! It is definitely a tonne of fun!

1) What does "L-3" mean to you?
2) Any particular reason for your vote?
3) Where else have you played Mafia?

1. "L-3" means it takes three more votes against a player to lynch them.
2. Not really, just started the game, where everyone is randomly voting.
3. Just a couple games IRL.

Kewl! Real life play is amazing huh?

So, what is the quality of your vote at this point? Just RVS huh? You didn't notice that I was at L=3?

[Mister Rogers]

Yep, I really enjoyed real life playing.

My vote was just RVS. Besides, there needs to be three more votes against you to lynch you, and people probably won't lynch you during RVS.

OK! Good enough and thank you.

[Mister Rogers]

Hey, XX, while you are at it, do you mind reading the thread and commenting on posts thus far?

[Mister Rogers]

Hey look, if "shading" was a scum claim, nobody would be able to play or scumhunt. I QUERY, you QUERY, we all do. Otherwise how can we strengthen our reads?

[Mister Rogers]

WOW. Amazing coincidence that your RVS vote ended up being on me then?

[Mister Rogers]

So who has made a mistake, me or Inf?

[Mister Rogers]

Think of it like we are all submarines in this game. The town has subs from WW2 but the scum have subs from the modern era. By QUERY, I mean like operating the radar to PING the unknown player to try and get a read to see if it is town or scum. See the point is I was pinging you but you (and amazingly now XX) are saying that I was attacking you. See, I KNOW you are attacking me but I also know that we do this as town as a PING to get reads.

[Mister Rogers]

So it can't and shouldn't be said that Imf went after me?

[Mister Rogers]

Of course it is (can be depending on the player). However keep in mind, I have not attacked you. If I attacked you, the entire thread would know it and exactly why. There is a difference. You have taken it a step farther here but again, town will do this too. I will at some point pull your meta to look more into your town meta.

[Mister Rogers]

Haven't you ever seen lawyer flicks on TV or at the movies? Or seen how cops interrogate people? If you want to get a read on someone you gotta ping 'em. Your reactions are definitely on record here. Now we can all examine your previous play to see how you behave as scum vs. town to make sure this sizes up properly. That's the purpose of pinging people.

[Mister Rogers]

Timestamps:

Post #47 (ISO) » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:57 pm (my post)

Post #48 (ISO) » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:07 pm (Inf's vote post of myself)

Post #49 (ISO) » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:10 pm (XX's vote post of myself)

XX claims that his vote of myself is RVS in post #64 & #67. XX then claims that his vote ended up having reasons in post #72 & #73.

I point out that this is quite the coincidence that the vote ended up on me for reasons in post #74.

XX claims that his RVS vote was for "the last person that posted".

The timestamps above clearly show that the last person that posted was Inf and therefore XX is shamelessly bandwagoning/case-sheeping and not wanting to admit it.

XX has clearly lied and therefore we have caught scum.

Vote: xx2008

[Mister Rogers]

So it can't and shouldn't be said that Imf went after me?

Nah you did kinda start it. But I'm home from work now and I can reread. This first pass has had me all like michael_jackson_popcorn.gif

This question was for XX but thank you for your answer. This question still stands for XX tho.

@inferno how are you reading mister rogers?
@mister rogers how are you reading inferno?

i have a spicy take. : ]


@xx2008 who do you think is town so far?

LOL. I know what's for dinner there and spicy pizza but let me assure you that I at least have the "T-shirt".

Unless his meta or other information surfaces, I read him as either overzealous town, attacking whatever he sees OR wiser, reaction testing town and the results are not fully in yet. :shrug:

I just got done reading a full 200 page game with Worst in it.

gasp which game?

It was that AWESOME SAUCE game from Labrynth! Sho played like a BOSS!!!

[Mister Rogers]

@Roger
Are you willfully ignoring the fact that that RVS vote was made on page 1 alone?

I am willingly scum hunting in the RVS on page 1 alone, thank you very much.

[Mister Rogers]

I can hear them in their daytalk trying to figure out how to diffuse this...

[Mister Rogers]

Nope. And XX is going to have to explain for himself, mmkay?

[Mister Rogers]

LOL. I knew you would be like this. Click my Wiki and read rule number 1 until is sinkjs in, mmkay?

You going to try and play a game this time or jusdt lurk and not contribute?

[Mister Rogers]

and INB4 you blame me for being too "unmotivated" to contribute, please see Rule #3, mmkay?

[Mister Rogers]

You had better replace out then because I am not going to this time.

[Mister Rogers]

Thank you. That is the mature and responsible thing to do.

[Mister Rogers]

Dewd what don't you understand about he must defend this himself. I mean I see the pattern where you are defending for other people and everything but, I mean c'mon its his move here, OK?

[Mister Rogers]

LOL. I won't clutter this thread but full details are available in my first game listed on site. BB pulled a huge mistake with his PR claim. Bad play comes with consequences. He didn't defend well either. My advice for people is: PLAY WELL.

[Mister Rogers]

If you can't understand how +EV it is to catch a player in a fake PR claim then I can't help you. Some people are just prefer to blame others rather than be intellectually responsible. Since you have replaced out please take this to another thread because it is not game related.

Again, thank you for replacing out. Its the right thing to do.

@Dray: Take your time and catch up sir.

[Mister Rogers]

I disagree that I have been spamming. You attempting to control a possible problem mentioned by others is praiseworthy however. I think we need to let the thread breathe. That's why I haven't been posting unless addressed by others.

[Mister Rogers]

Look it doesn't help for me to make all these posts about this previous game to illustrate how badly BB flubbed up in that game and how unless he defends like super well, needs to be lynched but I mean ya that's a super unusual case.

I mean I haven't even been posting because nobody has addressed me until you just posted. The game state clearly requires it, right?

[Mister Rogers]

Well I made no claims regarding your alignment. I have said that you are making the right decision to replace out because you will not be able to play properly. Thank you again for taking the high road.

[Mister Rogers]

VOTE: the worst
He's my twin and one twin is always evil

So Worst, mind explaining what this is all about?

[Mister Rogers]

Ok I will put my houskeeping posts into my notes until Inf and Dray catch up. Sorry.

[Mister Rogers]

@xx: ignore it huh, is that what you guys decided?

Lets see if you guys can answer this question:

When exactly did you realize that you forgot to read beyond page one?

[Mister Rogers]

Ok, sir. Which post? Before you made which post?

[Mister Rogers]

Your first post, right?

So this is your statement: "I realized that there was more than one page AFTER I made my first post", right?

[Mister Rogers]

Ok, so how long after making your first post did it take you to discover there was more than one page? I mean approximately how long?

[Mister Rogers]

@XX:

Ok sir thank you.

Of course that is going to be impossible, right?

Why? Because your first post occurred at 2:10pm and the post directly before it occurred at 2:07pm.

Now, this means that you would have needed to login to the front page of this thread with all the new information as this is your first game on site AND WITHIN 3 MINUTES, read the entire first page and plunk down a vote. You see that is 24 posts in 180 minutes which equals LESS THAN 7.5 seconds per post because of the time requiured to also type it.

See that proves that a post occurred from when you first logged in to the time you finally posted (3 minutes later). Why is that important? Because if a post comes in from the time you hit the thread until the time you post, IT SHOWS UP ON THE NEXT PAGE BEFORE YOU ARE ALLOWED TO PUT YOUR POST THROUGH.

So, for you to say that it took 30 MINUTES to finally discover additional material is A COMPLETE LIE.

Do you want to know what isn't a lie?

You fabricated a game entry throught process as an excuse to BW the last person voted. When I called you out on it (Post #74) you quickly make up an excuse for why you voted me since it was rather amazing that you had reasons and it was supposed to be RVS.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok scum buddy you can sneak through now, I have posted.

[Mister Rogers]

1) Where did I demand nobody can speak about my actions at any time?
2) Please confront the conceptual meaning behind each of the 3 points in my wiki instead of the tone or my experience level. Otheriwse you should follow my wiki as I myself also should.
3) What can I say to this? Everybody wanna complain about what I have done wrong in this thread using actual quotes? I GUARANTEE that you will find nothing offensive, period.

[Mister Rogers]

I am assuming we are all adults here playing this game, right?

[Mister Rogers]

I read the rules page before the game even started, so I didn't need to read those again. As for the warning, I didn't know what that was for initially, so I just submitted it anyways.

So then why did you not mention the reason for your supposed RVS post until after posts #64 and #67 when you were queried about it then too? Why did you wait until after post #74 to finally reveal that it was mechanical? Why didn't you say it earlier too?

[Mister Rogers]

To a large extent I think we have a complete gamestate to work with. Unofrtunately we are now waiting on 3 replacements. I like my vote where it is unless convinced otherwise. We need to have a game the replacements can catch up to.

[Mister Rogers]

Good question. It is specifically that you said your vote was RVS but then it was for reasons -- like both random and for reasons at the same time. Do scum need to make up a reason for every aggressive action they perform? Yes. Votiing is one of those actions and genuine reasons for doing so is a town trait.

[Mister Rogers]

Right, so that's why we look for whether a reason for a vote is genuine or fabricated.

[Mister Rogers]

Mod notes: Good luck everyone!

Please take a moment to familiarise yourselves with my ruleset because I have some rules you may not have encountered in other games before regarding animated gifs, tiny text, prodging and perhaps some other things!

Nastytoe and boguspotatohead have not confirmed and are being replaced. If they confirm before a replacement can be found, they can stay.

[Mister Rogers]

I'll give Worst the benefit of the doubt because well... he is my father! O_o

[Mister Rogers]

[Mister Rogers]

Ya but in duck years...

[Mister Rogers]

Inferno

-- shaky but town, I think a genuine misunderstanding possibly even over semantics ("shade" vs. "attack" etc). In my vocabulary, the work "mudslinging" is what I think is the same thing as "shade" which I believe originated off-site. Mudlsinging is when there is a BASELESS OR CULPABLY INACCURATE accusation made which is how we are able to differentiate between town-oriented queries.

Hugo

-- Townish. Nothing to go on yet. I think the reasons restraining his vote of myself could be better but I think the fact he hasn't piled on gives him quite a bit of town credit.

Worst

-- Null. Most of the posting seems to be related to the game state which is why he gets a pass for loaded questions as well. I don't think I will be able to properly read him until all slots have posted in some way.

Dray

-- Null. Friend of Worst. Hopefully they are both not scum. Waiting for more material.

XX

-- Scum. I find his entrance to my wagon to be less than genuine. First he says that he random voted before he had caught up but coicidentally made the next post after a vote was put on my slot and immediately says he has reasons for the vote being there but then claims that he had only read to page one and voted me mechanically. I got whiplash trying to understand why he voted me.

3 replacement slots

-- Null. Not enough material.

[Mister Rogers]

Funny I was thinking the same thing. But you know what else I was thinking? I cannot be certain enough of my other reads, especially Dray/Worst to make a statement like that. Scum are more likely to hand out blind town reads and are forced to fabricate all of their reads anyway...

So not impressed?

[Mister Rogers]

On re-read of this thread, my townread on Hugo has stregthened because of his concern over replacements and the game state.

[Mister Rogers]

Well, TWO friends can only be good here.

[Mister Rogers]

So most of the content in this game seems to be the Engaging people and asking them questions to get to the bottom of their motivations is literally what this game is all about, and sometimes people have to be pressed/pushed in order to do that. Sometimes aggression is exactly what is needed in this game to uncover both town and scum.

Thank you sir. If there has been one thing burning in my heart for this town to hear, it is the above quote. Thank you.

[Mister Rogers]

Let's not mix up gameplay and player status. There are plenty of people on this site that have offiste experience. It is irrelevant. Let's stick to play in the game.

@Former: Welcome to the game! I am sure we ill get along fine, besides, I don't "go after people" but I certainly do lynch scum. Looking forward to your catchup.

[Mister Rogers]

@inferno: PLease step back a bit and realize this is not about my own play but about play across all games of mafia in the universe.

[Mister Rogers]

Excuse me? You are going outside the game play saying that I am being overbearing? OK sir. I have had enough of this. If I am supposedly being ovberbearing, please quote the specific posts so everyone here (including the Mod) may see.

Furthermore,. if you and myself are town, we are supposed to be working TOGETHER. There is not supposed to be this "default animopsity". So far I haven't had these feelings toward your slot but I am starting to now with these bizarre accusations.

I don't personally think it is fair play to mix up scum tactics in with a SE/IC slot and kind of merge them into a tool to attack town and I want to state for the record that I hope this isn't happening.

===========

Look obviously we have gotten off on the wrong foot here. Can we just start over or something? I am not your enemy. I am not mad at you or out to get you. I have gone out of my way to be nice to you and to help us both come to a consensus regarding our play. So can we please just start fresh here?

[Mister Rogers]

Nice post Hugo thanks. I would like to point out that I immediately pointed out to XX that I was at L-3 and they immediately demonstrated that they knew what that meant. Therefore we can see that XX had no intention of changing their vote. IMO it appears as if they just decided to magically make up a reason to stay. :shrug:

Just for clarification, putting someone at L-3 is no crime even in the RVS but what bothers me is the cog-dis way in which this wagon was created by XX.

[Mister Rogers]

Heck I am willing to forget about it if he is. As far as I am concerned, it is a non-issue already. I just want to play Mafia and have fun like we all do.

[Mister Rogers]

[Mister Rogers]

@Draynth: So have you two been a hydra before? What does this "twin" stuff actually mean?

@Draynth: Mind if I ask what the difference is between an "inside joke" and a "regular joke"?

First do these questions have anything to do with how you will read someone? Second, how

do

you feel about rvs because you don’t put an rvs vote down, and you seem to be making a serious vote on Hugo in post 12?

Yes. There are two things to keep in mind. One, every detail can ultimately matter at some point in the game.; e.g. if Dray/Worst have been a Hydra, this could indicate how they should be able to read each other and can be very helpful to town. With the "joke" thing, it appeared to me that Dray seemed to annotate his first statement a little bit unconfortably and so I pressed on that to see if something might pop loose; I eventually discovered that he meant to say that it is an open joke that other people know and if anything, it was a step towards being honest (for whatever that is worth)

Furthermore, I scum hunt the RVS and do not place random votes. This gets to the final part here. I don't actually think random voting is responsible and it goes against my playstyle, which is to be responsible for everything that I do. There is an entire science behind scum hunting the RVS. You know, scum have to open the game too, just like they have to vote and make up reads and everything else about the game. A person that pays very close attention can actually catch scum on page one. Its a fine art and one that I pursue every game.

The rest is a back and forth between MR and Infer. I think MR is being overly critical of Infer and don’t mind that Infer stepped in to correct something. MR, what info did you hope to gain from Hugo by pressuring him over what you misunderstood from his vote?

I believe that he may have entered the game being self-consciously nervous about his L-3 vote of Worst and expressed this by using the word "also" with a serious vote of his own but where the original vote was a random one. By him explaining in excruciating detail exactly why he voted Worst, I saw a snapshot of his mental state that I believe was 100% honest and clearly, my suspicions were incorrect.

[Mister Rogers]

I find Hugo's creation of a Worst wagon unnaturally phrased. I don't find your argument against this to be accurate. He makes a team vote out of a single vote that is only his.

2 votes during rvs does not a wagon make. Why are you trying to add importance to an event that is a nonissue?

I disagree. 2 votes at any time, a wagon start. If scum can get a quicklynch in RVS they will try and do so. If scum can create a push towards a wagon without responsibility it is advantageous to do so. Not to mention that scum will always be overly conscious about their votes (which are always fake) and so it is to our advantage to pay attention to how players vote and why.

Good enough sir!

Unvote

This seems like a weak unvote. Like what Hugo said could have easily been implied by his voting post, and Infer was correct in how he took Hugos post. Why did you need Hugo to parrot what Infer said for you to see that what you were doing was tilting at windmills, Don Q?

LOL. No, but if you are trying to tell me that Hugo simply parroted what Inf said, I most assuredly beg to differ. Post #31 is a goldmine of truthful posting that reveals much about why Hugo placed his vote. I like that post very much. Unvoting is not weak, it is a great sign of strength when done properly.

The rest is that I am scum hunting I am sorry if it bothers you and that as far as Infer/myself, I have already stated twice we are both accusing ourselves of the same thing. This is why I still have a very shaky town read on him.

Fixed broken quote tags --P

[Mister Rogers]

Page 3:

1) What does "L-3" mean to you?

Why do you ask this question? Should l-3 mean anything while we are on page 2/3 and still kind of in rvs? Are you worried to be run up for some reason?

Cut me some slack and actually give me some credit here. Those 3 questions were an excellent scum hunt of my wagon which had just started. If you read all 3 of them you can see that they are most valuable for finding out the motivations and intentions of that player.

It appears you are starting to nitpick my posts for whatever reason but don't worry I love this game and will outpace you if necessary.

You haven't read my posts as a homogenous whole and thus you have not understood what my posts actually mean.

This is incredible pretentious. And I’m not even sure what taking your posts as a whole would do to change the individual parts.

Look I can get into detail here but I am not sure it will really be helpful. If you truly read the posts involved you will see that I am being accused of something that I already explained on more than one front. I can provide the specific details if you really need to know.

Look, you can't erase the fact that in my notes, you are potentially connected to Hugo here. Is this some kind of massive huge case on both of you that is iron clad evidence etc? No, of course not but[...]

Ok, so if it just a note going into his jacket why are you making such a big deal about it? Also, you kinda need a Hugo scum flip to pin any kind of associative tell back onto Infer here. Do you really think either of them are scum at this point, or are you just looking for anything that could be considered to be scummy at all?

I needed Infer to know the reason I posted what I did and the that it had specific value, albeit small but when were are in 3-P LYLO it could actually mean something, who knows? I am looking for POSSIBLE interrelations, possible things that can help us solve even if it is down the road. Look, EVERYTHING matters, at least potentially.

You didn't notice that I was at L=3?

Second time you mention this. Why are you worried about having 2 votes on you during rvs?

My vote was just RVS. Besides, there needs to be three more votes against you to lynch you, and people probably won't lynch you during RVS.

OK! Good enough and thank you.

Again, this is something that could easily be gleaned from normal play. I have seen very few games where town gets run up on an lolwagon d1 to a lynch without any kind of break pump happening. This just feels like a perfunctory post.

I like my scum hunting there, thank you very much.

[Mister Rogers]

LOL. I knew you would be like this. Click my Wiki and read rule number 1 until is sinkjs in, mmkay?

You going to try and play a game this time or jusdt lurk and not contribute?

Dude, why do you have rules for other people playing mafia? Are you some kind of prodigy? You said you played 2 games years ago and are just coming back. Don't think that your poor play can be blamed on anyone but yourself. Town has to draw itself together and scum have to try and hide in that. If you are town and are being scum read you have to ask yourself if you are dealing with misguided town or opportunistic scum. And if more than 1 person (2 really is you wanna think about the fact that 1 or 2 people saying shit could just be the scumteam trying to show a united front). 3 people saying something guarantees that at least 1 townie is seeing the same thing.

The last line isnt needed and is only there as a means to get under someones skin. Stop doing this.

Thanks for your advice but this was a comment directed at another person and not yourself. I handled it exactly the way it needed to be handled and quite happy with the way I did so. I do appreciate your well wishes to help me improve though.

[Mister Rogers]

Page 4 (I got overzealous and hit send by accident):

So it can't and shouldn't be said that Imf went after me?

Stop. You are not a victim, he is not a bad guy. You kinda went at him first about defending Hugo and then you kept at it for a few pages. Let it go if you are town, it is a nonissue you are running down. Failure to heed this warning may result in scum reads.

Of course it is (can be depending on the player). However keep in mind, I have not attacked you. If I attacked you, the entire thread would know it and exactly why. There is a difference. You have taken it a step farther here but again, town will do this too. I will at some point pull your meta to look more into your town meta.

Ok, so you are saying you were reaction testing Infer, is that complete? What did you deduce?

i have a spicy take. : ]

Do you get into this?

Timestamps:

Post #47 (ISO) » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:57 pm (my post)

Post #48 (ISO) » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:07 pm (Inf's vote post of myself)

Post #49 (ISO) » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:10 pm (XX's vote post of myself)

XX claims that his vote of myself is RVS in post #64 & #67. XX then claims that his vote ended up having reasons in post #72 & #73.

I point out that this is quite the coincidence that the vote ended up on me for reasons in post #74.

XX claims that his RVS vote was for "the last person that posted".

The timestamps above clearly show that the last person that posted was Inf and therefore XX is shamelessly bandwagoning/case-sheeping and not wanting to admit it.

XX has clearly lied and therefore we have caught scum.

Vote: xx2008

This ignores the post where XX says that he missed the second page, so his last post seen would have been your 24. I looked to see if what he said was correct and found it was. If you take the time to read peoples posts and do the work you would have seen it too and this horrible vote wouldnt have happened.

Please try and not take every slight as the end of the world most egregious signs of scumdom. This rhetoric from you is going to grow old quickly, and it is going to be hard for town to follow you on any of your tinfoil hat theories because you’ve been so eager to jump on anything.

Clearly I disagree. Getting XX on record and under pressure is of paramount value here. Thanks for the advice anyway, I appreciate your opinion.

[Mister Rogers]

Page 5:

You had better replace out then because I am not going to this time.

Can you explain the backstory to this post?

Ya its quite the horror story. It is the first game that is in my post history. Before I started playing again, after a 5 year absence, I re-read my games and I noticed IV was in that horrific miscarriage of a Mafia game. Then I noticed that he was in the list for this game after I had already signed up and been conmfirmed. I thought to myself, "OMGOSH -- I hope this guy doesn't wig out over something that happened 5 years ago". Anyway he enters the thread, throwing down a terrible post and I knew exactly where this was going. These guys refuse to recognize, even to this day, that if you fake a PR claim -- YOU NEED TO EAT ROPE -- and the last thing that you can do is blame someone else for pushing that for the benefit of the town. I simply let him know that if he was going to trash up the thread and expect me to replace out that I wasn't going to. Look I will be honest here -- it is immature to blame someone else for being negative affected by your own (or someone else's) bad play without AT LEAST factoring that bad play as a major component of that criticism. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

[Mister Rogers]

I suppose Mister Rogers is nervous about two votes at the start of RVS because he is the mafia and worries people will lynch him.

Nope. Just scum hunting my newly formed wagon, thank you. Besides if I was worried about catching votes, I wouldn't scum hunt and just try an coast unnoticed.

[Mister Rogers]

Mister Rogers has attacked me simply because I didn't realize the game had more than one page of posts. People make mistakes. And, as it has been said in this thread before, a newbie game that is this long in such a short amount of time is not what is expected. I wasn't expecting more than one page in the first few hours of the game, which is why I didn't check it.

But you voted me because I was going after Inf, right?

[Mister Rogers]

Page 6:

VOTE: the worst
He's my twin and one twin is always evil

So Worst, mind explaining what this is all about?

Why are you asking worst to explain a post made by Dray?

I am going to start calling you out on nitpickng without putting in any conscious thought from here on out. I clearly wanted:

1) To verify Dray's veracity
2) To test Worst's willingness to disclose their relationship and the details thereof
3) To notate what this relationship consists of for further reads on their slots

Pardon me if your questioning here is sincere because I am getting the feeling that it may not be?

[Mister Rogers]

Page 7:

Spoiler:

Inferno

-- shaky but town, I think a genuine misunderstanding possibly even over semantics ("shade" vs. "attack" etc). In my vocabulary, the work "mudslinging" is what I think is the same thing as "shade" which I believe originated off-site. Mudlsinging is when there is a BASELESS OR CULPABLY INACCURATE accusation made which is how we are able to differentiate between town-oriented queries.

Hugo

-- Townish. Nothing to go on yet. I think the reasons restraining his vote of myself could be better but I think the fact he hasn't piled on gives him quite a bit of town credit.

Worst

-- Null. Most of the posting seems to be related to the game state which is why he gets a pass for loaded questions as well. I don't think I will be able to properly read him until all slots have posted in some way.

Dray

-- Null. Friend of Worst. Hopefully they are both not scum. Waiting for more material.

XX

-- Scum. I find his entrance to my wagon to be less than genuine. First he says that he random voted before he had caught up but coicidentally made the next post after a vote was put on my slot and immediately says he has reasons for the vote being there but then claims that he had only read to page one and voted me mechanically. I got whiplash trying to understand why he voted me.

3 replacement slots

-- Null. Not enough material.

Not trying to get myself town read by you, but lets talk about my preds replace out. Do you see that as something scum would ever do if you were town? And the shit posting from you on this page felt weird, like shitting naked.

Look this thing is not game related, the posts connected to it are specifically related to something outside this game, its NAI. Its kind of like a situation that you have to be in to understand, you know?

[Mister Rogers]

I don't "go after people" but

I certainly do lynch scum

.

Do you have evidence of the bolded? Like I say that, but then I back it up with proof.

Sure I can provide alts where I do a great job running the table nailing scum after scum.

[Mister Rogers]

So most of the content in this game seems to be the Engaging people and asking them questions to get to the bottom of their motivations is literally what this game is all about, and sometimes people have to be pressed/pushed in order to do that. Sometimes aggression is exactly what is needed in this game to uncover both town and scum.

Thank you sir. If there has been one thing burning in my heart for this town to hear, it is the above quote. Thank you.

This just feels like a scum circle jerk.

DEWD! Its 100% sincere! I literally just spent the day being accused of being "aggressive" which is "scummy" and getting voted for it. I literally wanted to do a full on "classroom post" where I described exactly how important it is to make agresive queries that are associated with accusations to shake the scum loose and how a passive town just hands the win to the scum. WE HAVE TO MAKE THE SCUM TREMBLE!!

Besides we can all put on a tinfoil hat and say that you and xx share a QT but pfffft I simply restrain myself because like you said earlier, flips matter when making associations.

[Mister Rogers]

Spoiler:

@Draynth: So have you two been a hydra before? What does this "twin" stuff actually mean?

@Draynth: Mind if I ask what the difference is between an "inside joke" and a "regular joke"?

First do these questions have anything to do with how you will read someone? Second, how

do

you feel about rvs because you don’t put an rvs vote down, and you seem to be making a serious vote on Hugo in post 12?

Yes. There are two things to keep in mind. One, every detail can ultimately matter at some point in the game.; e.g. if Dray/Worst have been a Hydra, this could indicate how they should be able to read each other and can be very helpful to town. With the "joke" thing, it appeared to me that Dray seemed to annotate his first statement a little bit unconfortably and so I pressed on that to see if something might pop loose; I eventually discovered that he meant to say that it is an open joke that other people know and if anything, it was a step towards being honest (for whatever that is worth)

Furthermore, I scum hunt the RVS and do not place random votes. This gets to the final part here. I don't actually think random voting is responsible and it goes against my playstyle, which is to be responsible for everything that I do. There is an entire science behind scum hunting the RVS. You know, scum have to open the game too, just like they have to vote and make up reads and everything else about the game. A person that pays very close attention can actually catch scum on page one. Its a fine art and one that I pursue every game.

The rest is a back and forth between MR and Infer. I think MR is being overly critical of Infer and don’t mind that Infer stepped in to correct something. MR, what info did you hope to gain from Hugo by pressuring him over what you misunderstood from his vote?

I believe that he may have entered the game being self-consciously nervous about his L-3 vote of Worst and expressed this by using the word "also" with a serious vote of his own but where the original vote was a random one. By him explaining in excruciating detail exactly why he voted Worst, I saw a snapshot of his mental state that I believe was 100% honest and clearly, my suspicions were incorrect.

1. I dont mind the questions you asked, did anything pop loose or did they turn out to be duds?
2. I get scum hunting from rvs, i think I am one of the few people who do believe in it. My ability comes a little later when we have some flips to use for associative tells from rvs votes.
3. Why would anyone be worried about a second vote on someone page 1?

OK! Now I am starting to like you more. Sure, I have quite a nice town read on Hugo due to our interactions. I learned about connections between Dray (thank you for the post prodding him!) and Worst and I also learned alot about Inf.

I love the fact that you scum hunt the RVS! I use it to completely avoid random voting and that way all my actions are sincere and make sense; I never have to say "sorry it was just random".

This is a small game. L-3 is a position in the hierarchy. It is a step in direction of a lynch. It is a great topic to push on, inquire about and pursue to get reads.

[Mister Rogers]

I have played on this site all the way back to Lamont_Cranston, off and on for very many years but I haven't played Mafia for 5 years and this was the last account I have ever used. I don't use my old alts but they are still like laying around apparently. :shrug:

Wow I so totally agree about RVS. I think I could learn alot from you about it. I learned about it from Mastin (studying his play).

[Mister Rogers]

LOL we are both like 7-11's.

Ya I am still confused about that one. I am not sure why I thot Mastin was a he...

[Mister Rogers]

No. I seriously haven't played for 5 years. I love this game though and eventually it crawled back under my skin.

[Mister Rogers]

I am very anxious to see the final replace. I think we have an excellent shot at breaking this game!

He I don't get that where you say "I use my vote as a hammer". I specifically don't do that. For me, every move of my vote matters, ALOT. I have simply made 2 votes and that's all. So I don't get what you mean by that...

[Mister Rogers]

No I love discussing the game state and sharing reads and such like that. Reads are extremely important and where we differ, matters.

[Mister Rogers]

I am holding Volx as town.

Definitely need material from Worst,Dray [NEW SLOT] and Hugo should share a gamewide view?

[Mister Rogers]

I am holding Volx as town.

Definitely need material from Worst,Dray [NEW SLOT] and Hugo should share a gamewide view?

What specifically has led you to townread me?

I like your entrance, reading it as 100% genuine; i.e. an actual townie that read the game and posted his views. This was further evidenced by his query of Worst which I found EXTREMELY inspirational. Sure, he didn't pile on my easy wagon which is a plus.

I am fully aware that his second post looks suspiciously like... well, suspicious but I read genuine and his sentiments D2, show a townie taking care of business.

[Mister Rogers]

I think if we can get a good townblock, once the last replace gets in here we can start to squeeze....

[Mister Rogers]

WOW amazing!

[Mister Rogers]

Hi Fish, and hi whoever you are now!
Nice to meet you officially. I've read a few of your games, and look forward to playing with you. I also think your slot just might be town.

Ok well, this is the second time I have seen this mentioned in this thread. Haven't you heard people say "I would replace out regardless of alignment"?

Why have you and Fish come to this conclusion? I am not familiar with it...?

[Mister Rogers]

@Volxen: I just wanted to let you know that I just took a deep breathe and re-ISO'ed xx.

[Mister Rogers]

Well, help me out here. What is the biggest thing he did with a scum motivation or IOW, what do we have to believe to see that he is clearly scum?

[Mister Rogers]

I was fine playing with him but he flew into a froth being in the same game space as myself. I almost replaced out myself but at the very last millisecond I decided "NO! I am sick of this!" and I told him to replace instead.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok fine then sir! Let us await this response as they promised!

[Mister Rogers]

Ya well don't leave me out of this info loop. I need to hear about this too!

[Mister Rogers]

You know, just spit it out Darth...

[Mister Rogers]

How did both you and fish come to the same conclusion and thought process conbcerning IV and did so independently?

[Mister Rogers]

Its a srs question for the both of you and how about Worst does his game state before I consider whether my vote needs to stay?

[Mister Rogers]

Vote: the worst

[Mister Rogers]

Your friend Volxen is pursuing you about your lack of scum reads and really lack of meaningful participation so far. Next thing I know, you are both attacking him. How about you produce that game state post?

[Mister Rogers]

you = worst

[Mister Rogers]

What happens if you (WORST) flip first?

[Mister Rogers]

I'm thinking that you have quite the lackluster performance and when one of your friends calls you out on it, you decide to (YAWN) delay it but you sure have the gumption to team up and attack your attacker?

You ever hear of good cop, bad cop? Or in this case it was bad cop, good cop. This was the fake entry that Fish just made and simply buddied me for no reason. Now am I obvtown? Of course but I think he is manipulative scum, or at least thats a theory that I am currently positing.

So I see you both jump together and I am not liking what I am seeing. I think the town needs to have a conference about the whole thing. Dray had better be there too!

[Mister Rogers]

Ok well I think if everyone can just stay calm, maybe we can work this whole thing out. This town cannot allow you (WORST) to just skate by. I was very seriously watching your catchup and was quite disappointed to not see some actual material.

if I'm right on all of my townreads or almost right, there's huge scum equity in preemptively derailing it.

What does "it" mean; derailing what?

[Mister Rogers]

Heck its the exact same thing I was doing, except I was trying to figure out if you are town or scum in the picture. So what do you two do but attack my strongest townie??

[Mister Rogers]

Inother words p[reemptively derailing MY townblock!

[Mister Rogers]

Well do you want my latest read on xx because I have now very serious info...

[Mister Rogers]

I simply watched his activities from when he entered into the game and through today. His pointing out your lack of scum reads was an enlightening post from someone I don't think is scum and I see him get attacked for it.

[Mister Rogers]

It reminded me of how important your role is in this game. The fact that we have both Dray and Volk here to help read you is quite comforting however.

PEDIT: "on the money" meaning??

[Mister Rogers]

oh volxen is a very new friend, but he has indeed seen my scumgame pretty recently. I think there's quite a lot of differences but some people really struggle with reading me.

Dray keeps rolling scum against me.... a habit I hope he corrects soon! so uncool

if he keeps lurking maybe he's done it again...

[Mister Rogers]

Ok well I had better spill the beans. I am not sure which end it is coming out of, so brace yourselves...

Look, my major attack against XX was that he lied about RVS-ing me and actually BW-ed me instead. The problem is, once took time this evening to look over his ISO, I simply found a innocent sounding person. You see I thought they were playing the newbie card as a defensive ploy but I now think that is truly impossible; their ISO is 100% consistent with "innocent".

Now could they have rolled scum and remained looking innocent? Unfortunately yes but we will have to deal with that later. Let me finally say that since I have revealed this alas I don't think they will ever be NK'ed.

Anyway, I have to admit that the post from Volx looked like it was put together with copy/pasting from my posts. Was I the only one that noticed that?

But I still read a townie inside that post making his own content and his activity today has been like excellent.

So that's it. I hope you all survived the noxious cloud.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok, well I can tell you I didn't get it from your posts and it actually happened in real time right at post #260.

[Mister Rogers]

Well at this point after releasing some of that gas, I am in a place where I am willing to talk about him being scum (in case I am wrong) but there is no way I am going to let you guys roll right over him after the way events have turned out. In other words, you have to get through me first and if its appropriate I think I can even fight for a Worst lynch, so I am willing to talk about that too.

[Mister Rogers]

They shouldn't give a group of men the power to kill at will...

[Mister Rogers]

I simply cannot shake the fact that Volx's query of Worst was literally so inspiring to me and that the next result was for two of my (?)possible scum(?) reads to like chain vote the guy for that same query. Its the most bizarre timing!

[Mister Rogers]

I am not scum reading your slot but you could be scum and I have been waiting for your read list to make my determination if I should push your wagon (this was before Volx-gate). Unfortunately you guys acted first and I simply had to jump in response.

I have been possibly scum reading Fish because his entry was like I said bad-cop, good-cop and major buddy points without any actual justification. The buddying WAS completely manufactured.

XX is simply null. Dray null to scum for lurking. [REPLACEMENT] is null.

Volx is either 100% town or 100% scum -- I am completely polarized.

Hugo is light town, easly strengthened with more participation and I have no reason to actually read Inf as scum, I mean after a performance like that I think its like impossible. I think he is pants on head town.

[Mister Rogers]

Meh the game state is like imperfect right now. The two major lurkers are messing it up: Dray and [REPLACEMENT].

[Mister Rogers]

Pffft. I have to go to sleep.

Unvote

I have to sleep on this. I AM being pocketed but the question is by whom. sigh....

OK, I will let the adults talk. Goodnight.

PEDIT
====

FISH/WORST <=== most major fear
VOLX/??? <=== actually a relief albiet quite risky in light of above
DRAY/REPLACE <=== combinations of this sort still quite possible

[Mister Rogers]

On Former, I kept waiting for the guy to post material to substantiate his views but we just got locked in this conversation, he unvoted and we were like buddies. He really revealed himself when he said that I should consider IV's slot town motivated and basically offered me meta material on himself (begging for a townread). Also can't help but notice you BOTH said the same thing about IV's slot and you know, before Former hit the thread, he no doubt hit your Q/T first right? So you guys had the IV slot thing worked out in in advance, right?

blah blah blah blah blahzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Mister Rogers]

Ok just woke up. Glad people have backed off. I must remind myself that I need to address Former's first post to me while Worst was at L-1 for certain content that pinged me as off.

@NK15: Have you fully caught up yet. I see you have said that XX is both bad-looking scum and low hanging fruit town?

Dray REALLY needs to catch up. I will be at work and checking in from time to time briefly.

[Mister Rogers]

This account has passed muster for its first game; I was queried by the List Mod for that game. I haven't used any alt since I started using this account, so I am all good.

[Mister Rogers]

Just passing through on a break. After reading Volx's excellent post above, I was brought to think that I would expect from Worst something like a mixture of town reads, a focus on at least one scum and with reasoning. I agree that just throwing out town reads and saying "I know this this scummy but its OK because I know its scummy", is still scummy, in the area of lazy-scum. I mean where is the burning desire to actually scum hunt?

I don't want to sound like a jerk or anything (because I seem to be really good at that apparently) but this town NEEDS a pro-active Worst to the degree that we can at least catch the hint of a town heartbeat here.

[Mister Rogers]

When I get done with work, I will be doing a full overhaul of this game and will have much more to offer.

[Mister Rogers]

Zipping through here on lunch, I need to say the following:

Please Former, provide your full read on Worst's slot. Thank you.

[Mister Rogers]

Virtual Work Sir.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok, Hugo this is groundbreaking information. Please provide the exact meta link. If this pans out, I think that we should very well lynch.

[Mister Rogers]

This is what I am talking about! A town that flipping well cooperates!

[Mister Rogers]

- Formerfish's catch-up was really good. He picked up on some pretty nuanced things which is really difficult to fake as scum. He pushed good angles and asked good questions.

I am having SERIOUS problems believing this one. I'd REALLY like to see the specifics on this one. Like give us how this is a townie entrance from him, AT ALL?

[Mister Rogers]

I mean its pretty obv that if you can simply get me to townread you that I will simply be controllable for the whole game and I def got the sense that your entire entrance was designed to do just that; slam the crap out of me as if I was guaranteed L-2 and then simply pull up like a plane coming out of a nose dive to accomplish your aim.

See I already know that a townie replace is more oriented toward all the players and an unhealthy obsession with just one is simply just BS.

I must catch up too. I just woke up after a nap and I think I will gulp some coffee and get to it...

[Mister Rogers]

In post 356, nancy wrote:
Quick, read game pls thx


Don't really want to. I usually don't even replace into games with 200+ posts, so you're lucky to have me as it is.

Scumtastic omgosh.

[Mister Rogers]

Mister Rogers has attacked me simply because I didn't realize the game had more than one page of posts. People make mistakes. And, as it has been said in this thread before, a newbie game that is this long in such a short amount of time is not what is expected. I wasn't expecting more than one page in the first few hours of the game, which is why I didn't check it.

But you voted me because I was going after Inf, right?

Sorry XX, did you miss this?

[Mister Rogers]

also: I frankly have very little respect for replacing out for virtually no reason.

Have you ever read the cask of amontillado by Poe?

Yes! You know talk about horror! Can you imagine being locked in the wine cellar for a perpetual night until death!?

What about Telltale Heart?

[Mister Rogers]

Mr. R. Why

as scum

would

[DO] I buddy you 3-4 times so overtly that it makes my flesh want to fall off your bones?

FTFY, now fix it for me because:

[Mister Rogers]

Volx you are in my townblock this game, period. We need to get Hugo on up in here, you feel me brah?

[Mister Rogers]

Still catching up but just wanted you to know that I have also come to the same conclusion about your slot. I think we can crack this here game!!

[Mister Rogers]

Look don't quote me yet but some food for thought:

I really think that scum are in: [Worst,Former,Dray,NK15]

Just a disclaimer that NK15 is not even on my radar yet (catching up).

[Mister Rogers]

I am going to have such a massive case on this guy falling and tripping over himself to avoid townposting in this game. Something catastrophic will have to happen (like NK 15 being the most obvscum player ever for instance) to get me to move from here:

Vote: the worst

[Mister Rogers]

Vote: the worst

[Mister Rogers]

There is no excuse for a player of this quality to be using all his talents to simply not play. We do not give him permission to scum skate!

Back to catchup (sorry had to get that out of the way, I simply couldn't take it anymore).

[Mister Rogers]

Glad you are here Dray. I still haven't caught up but I know you made some posts a couple pages back or so. We really need you in here contributing reads and such as much as possible?

Anyway, FF said that I reminded him of the scum who posted in that quote. I dunno, I just felt like quoting it because I really het that post he made alot. :shrug:

[Mister Rogers]

Do you get the feeling his train of thought has been natural?

Yes.

[Mister Rogers]

The compliment is what it is, sir. I still haven't caught up and I need another nap. I can make a WALL about your failposting all game long. When a very strong player failposts, the town MUST lynch it with fire!

PEDIT: I put a period.

PPSEDIT: He is not pocketing me, hereafter referred to as: "No."

[Mister Rogers]

Yes you are very smooth. I have read Volx very carefully and I am convinced. You both are on the opposite ends of the full spectrum; despite your cute fuzzy avi and friendly demeanor, the dark abyss of your eye gives you away this game.

[Mister Rogers]

I am not discussing that topic with you unless I feel like it. I will read whatever you have to say about it and you can certainly query someone else about. We can speak about other things if you like. How about your reads on NK 15?

[Mister Rogers]

Or how about a line from your playbook this game: When I wake up from my nap, I will finish my catchup and put in a special section devoted to my townread of Volx.

[Mister Rogers]

- Formerfish's catch-up was really good. He picked up on some pretty nuanced things which is really difficult to fake as scum. He pushed good angles and asked good questions.

I am having SERIOUS problems believing this one. I'd REALLY like to see the specifics on this one. Like give us how this is a townie entrance from him, AT ALL?

Hold up
I said in my catch up post that I thought that fish was very strongly Town. You said nothing.
Duck says it and you say that you don’t think it’s townie at all?
Why does me saying it not get that response, but Duck does?

I just checked my notes and I don't see this reference. This either means that I have missed it or I haven't caught up to the point to where I have read it.

I am on post #347, does it show up after or before that?

What I can tell you about Worst's post there is that it is all about generalities and sounds completely faked/disingenuous. Also I am pinging hard on unnatural interactions between Worst/Former and so I think that their reads of each other are especially valuable.

Just woke up from the nap and find your post to be the first for responding to in free flow before I get back to the catchup.

[Mister Rogers]

Yo Hugo how do you feel about volxen/MR?

Weird..not sure if they are the scum duo, as it might be a bit obvious, but gg if they are lol.

I think there is some pocketing going around, and I was trying to give MR playstyle a chance but I think it's a bit strange that hes kind of pinging people to get a town bloc going.

Look, I believe in the power of reads. If we can get good reads and act on them successfully, we can blow the game open and win. Its kind of like a drug I guess. Once you read scum and lynch them over and over, its like something you want to do every time. I am very confident in my town reads of yourself & Volx. You three, so far, are the only ones that I have that level of positive read on.

I personally am giving XX & Inf a townread as well but I don't nearly have the confidence level on XX (they just didn't act as scum when they pushed me and read as innocent town overall) and I mainly base my town read of Inf on the fact that is scum really going to get all game state offended and go all "SE Sheriff" and everything like that?

I guess I am not going to convince you of the power of a town block Hugo but seriously, its the way that town wins games, you know?

Since I have a strong town read on you, lets work together nonetheless. Who is your strongest town read in this game and who is the strongest scum?

[Mister Rogers]

377, so after

But this brings up the question, why are you pushing Duck so hard if you’re not even fully caught up?

Dewd, like awesome question. If you read the small group of posts right when I vote you can tell I am quite frustrated because I just read the massive and copious amounts of drek-posting that Worst had done and it pinged my radar so many times and so badly that I LITERALLY couldn't take it anymore. In addition, I had of course already read the duck current posts in real-time flow and I knew that he hadn't done anything different up to THAT point.

Just to make it clear, I mean, this is how I process the game: 1 sweep in real-time and one processed in notes. That's what keeps me sane and from making massive mistakes based on gut in the real-time flow, you know?

[Mister Rogers]

Hey just for public consumption (I'm having a large snack before hitting the bricks) I FLIPPING WISH VOLX WAS SCUM HERE! I mean OMGOSH, how much easier this dang game would be if that was the case!

No instead we have to deal with two top players in PoE who know the subtleties of this process like the back of their hand, they literally know every weakness and exploit them on an instinctive level.

[Mister Rogers]

Well I am not sure what exactly you mean by "strong statement" but I am talking about Worst and Former. These guys are STRONG, VETERAN players. We have to be strong and coordinated town to take them down, otherwise (if they are both scum) they will rip us apart.

See my current PoE list is: [Worst,Former,Dray,NK15]

Unfortunately I have recently discovered (from Worst of course) that NK15 is going to be like impossible to properly read. I hope he is simply lying or exaggerating here...

I haven't brought the full case against Worst yet (with quotes/logic a-plenty) but its really simple, I mean both Volx & NK-15 get it -- when lazy scum don't want to work in the thread and just want to coast, they start making excuses about [insert whatever they feel like using here]; the higher skill level/experience of the player, the more eggregious this behavior is.

Now, if you try and WIFOM it and say ya but if he was scum he wouldn't do that, ya but just like evolution and survival of the fittest, he knows that he can simply skate and flaunt it from his armchair while town paranoia scatters the forces uniting against him. He is basically saying that we suck as town and can't marshall our forces to make him work as scum.

Regardless of what you think of my stream of consciousness there, Worst is skating lazy scum. His main goal is to hit end of D1, doing the least amount possible. So far we have done a good job and definitely have his attention. Let's not let him slip away.

[Mister Rogers]

I am talking about actual work here, trying to find scum. Churning out stream of consciousness posts based on whatever is going on in the moment is not scum hunting! In order to lynch scum we have to WORK, HARD. He isn't doing that. Has his town gotten better now that town is focused on him? Sure but I mean eventually I am going to be quoting the WALL of all his drek posting before that.

I mean you know its scummy to throw out only town reads, right? Because the scum know who all the town are and nobody will fight them on accurately being called town, right?

Read that ISO and try to find someone who is actually scum hunting and not just trying to be popular and "relevant in the moment". All I found was skating scum.

Look so far, I think you are town and I hope I am right aboiut your pants on head style here, so who is your number one town/scum read?

[Mister Rogers]

One last thing before I hit the bricks. I forgot about the examples of their strength. Let me show you how strong Former is: (post incoming)

[Mister Rogers]

PEDIT: Continued from the post before, speaking first to Inf...

Page 6:

VOTE: the worst
He's my twin and one twin is always evil

So Worst, mind explaining what this is all about?

Why are you asking worst to explain a post made by Dray?

I am going to start calling you out on nitpickng without putting in any conscious thought from here on out. I clearly wanted:

1) To verify Dray's veracity
2) To test Worst's willingness to disclose their relationship and the details thereof
3) To notate what this relationship consists of for further reads on their slots

Pardon me if your questioning here is sincere because I am getting the feeling that it may not be?

I needed to figure out why you were asking player b to answer for player a while you are querying people who defend others against you. Also, worth pointing out that

Infer defended both hugo and XX, they all 3 cant be scum

. Just saying.

Not every question I ask is going to be the one that breaks through anything, but i never know what connections I will make based off answers unless I ask. If time allows I can explain that last part more. Just think of me as a 7-11, it might not always be doing business but they are always open.

Now, somebody who fakes a catchup simply does NOT get that far into my head where they are thinking the thoughts that I am and posting them. I mean the level of comprehension is INTENSE to get inside my head like that. NOW, think about this level of intensity if Former is scum!

I guarantee you that Worst has the same skills! Oh I guarantee you!! The only thing is, he has low key down to an art so (just like he has said in this thread) its actually hard to pin it down (but I can).

Both these guys are DANGEROUS.. Just saying.

[Mister Rogers]

Inferno is my strongest early read of the four. he has a meta of getting into TvT fights pretty quickly (please refer his sig) and his reaction to Rogers' posting style is very consistent with that meta. I can completely see why it was tilting to town!ferno and understood where he was coming from with his fighting back.

Rogers, I liked the early content and forcing discussion. some of his pushes kinda felt like tries rather than full on genuine reads which was initially pinging me but by the time I originally caught up I was already reading this as playstyle indicative/anti-RVS rather than necessarily scummy.

Hugo I just liked his early posting, didn't have any kind of careful tone etc. I'd look for from scum!Hugo. it's my weakest read of the 4 very obviously.

there you go you've got the tl;dr of what I was feeling several pages ago. I hope that was interesting reading. now please answer my questions and actually scumhunt.

I'd rather not be too candid about my feelings after our last game together, but if you are town please let's not have a rehash of that nonsense.

Now, I am quoting this as an example and so everyone understands why I say that throwing out 5 townreads is +SCUM. Notice how he is able to call everyone on his read list a townie and how EASY it is to provide the reasons -- does anyone on this list feel offended by beiong called town and our play described out? And now he gets to say that he has "actually scumhunted". Keep in mind elsewhere that he has blamed having townreads for not voting!! This is scum utr (under the radar) play. This is inexcusable for someone like Worst.

[Mister Rogers]

He is not helping us catch scum! Its because he are one!!!!!

[Mister Rogers]

clipped long post

I don't like this at all
Plus I don't think tw is acting like his scum meta of the last game just yet either. We have like10 more irl days for this duck to get to a computer n deliver

Look, I agree (on time left, not rushing etc) but srsly, what is it gonna take for him to start townposting (I no longer think he is). I mean don't get me wrong, this game gets like whey easier if he is town and begins actually helping us find scum.

Now, I guess you have your own meta reasons/reads, so I will leave you to them but as of right now I don't think duck should see the night.

I want to work with you about this and I am willing to listen. I am counting on you, sir!

[Mister Rogers]

Right we have a specific request not to hammer here so the only action open to us until Hugo comes back and such is to EXPRESS INTENT -- basically say "I am going to hammer you". I don't think Duck should claim until Hugo comes back, since we aren't ready to hammer yet. I think Hugo is town and I think we should wait for more input from him?

[Mister Rogers]

Remember this post from him:

The town doesn’t win by holding back important information such as why you are townreading person X or why you are scumreading person Y. We win by sharing information (such as reads) and pressuring people when appropriate to uncover who the scum amongst us are.

i just want to say this is exactly what TW did in our last game, where TW was scum.
they kept saying "oh yeah i have some information but i'm going to share it later" and never followed through.
it REALLY bugged me because it was EVERY day from this player.
i also don't like the way the pressure from the slot easily slid off. i think if tw flips scum to look more closely into those unvotes to find their partner.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok well as long as we are safe and not accidentally hammering.

[Mister Rogers]

there's like 0 doubt scum in {volxen, MR}. I'm really exhausted by being misrepped and both of them keep talking in circles about how scummy I am and how my play doesn't come from town but neither of them are willing to engage with me. MR promises some case with quotes and shit but literally all I'm seeing his inane hyperbole.

NK15 has never shown me evidence he knows how to play mafia in his entire career so like, he is fantastic cop bait or if we don't have a cop should probably be lynched on a policy basis.


I'm pretty comfortable sawing volxen => MR right now then assessing the damage, but I'm starting to think flipping MR d1 and finding out whether everything he's saying is made up or whether he actually thinks he's onto something probably breaks the game open.

MR has plunged south in my reads because the stuff he's pulling right now is not game solving. it is casing a lynch on me, completely at he expense of common sense or actually reading the game.

Bro if you're town here please stick around for post-game...
VOTE: Mister Rogers

So, you choose this rather than bring a town game? Not impressed.

If Volx is scum, I DO NOT have this game broken open and so your FAIL-LOGIC there is scummy as a reason to vote me "if I flip town" because obviously if I flip scum then nothing I am saying is correct, right? SCUM-LOGIC HERE!

Don't worry I am solving this game and of course I would have ALWAYS wanted you to be helping me do that from the moment right before Volx-Gate happened but instead of doing this, you run a scum-survival line with scum logic?

Don't worry I am reading this game, every post and even though it is apparent that we agree on NK15, unfortunately that is NAI for both of us.

Maybe you need to read Rule #3 in my wiki instead of threatening me with out of game consequences, which I don't like and think is +scum btw...

I have been here for you all game but you haven't been here for us at least not yet. I'm not all ego on this even though I am sure I am right here, I do defer to Hugo for help on this as well.

[Mister Rogers]

Is the fact that TvS is off the list a product of bias or does the position of the letter make no difference?

[Mister Rogers]

LOL. Pursuing a case is not tunneling. Don't you understand that tunneling is

focusing on one case to the exlcusion of all else

? Can you show me where I am doing this? Of course not. So let's leave "tunneling" aside, shall we?

This is not complicated even though you seem to have been trying to make it so ever since Volx called you out. I mean if you are going to scum coast, there has to be a level of complication, I get that.

But its VERY simple actually:

Who is scum and why? Why in the heck should we be lynching your scum suspects when they have played a better game than you have all game long?*

*DISCLAIMER: If said suspect is found NOT to have played worse than Worst, please ignore this sentence particle.

Believe me, I got a headache too reading that game. I don't think it should be recommended reading unless its a summary. :shrug:

[Mister Rogers]

I do not understand what "softing scum" means?

I am sorry sir but if you are trying to make excuses for why you will not even produce a scum list and help us lynch that scum, YOU NEED ROPE NOW.

[Mister Rogers]

omgosh and now you are trolling me to get me to tilt. I hope Hugo comes back and votes you so we can get this travesty out of the way.

You either want to help us win (town) or you don't (scum). Clearly you aren't helping here...

If you want to start helping now would be preferable to any other choice? kthxbai.

[Mister Rogers]

Just passing through on a break. After reading Volx's excellent post above, I was brought to think that I would expect from Worst something like a mixture of town reads, a focus on at least one scum and with reasoning. I agree that just throwing out town reads and saying "I know this this scummy but its OK because I know its scummy", is still scummy, in the area of lazy-scum. I mean where is the burning desire to actually scum hunt?

I don't want to sound like a jerk or anything (because I seem to be really good at that apparently) but this town NEEDS a pro-active Worst to the degree that we can at least catch the hint of a town heartbeat here.

[Mister Rogers]

that's definitely not a meta read. I just like the energy xx2008 has been putting out. I think it swings towards a relaxed mindset, which is more likely at random to come from town than scum. would you mind showing me where you got the idea that this was a meta read from?

correct, I think they're low hanging fruit and the fact my main scumread entered the thread by jumping up and biting them is absolutely the way I interpret this gamestate.

so you think they're mafia rather than LHF? can you please show me where you think their posting comes from scum / doesn't come from town?

Ok my apologies to the thread. I just got done with this post in my notes. Here clearly TW has done what is requested. It is a simple fact. I know TW has the natural ability to force me to doubt my t/r's (specifically Volx here) and after my re-read of Volx this morning, I am locked in on him being town (i.e. I will not change today for any reason). I strayed away from discussion of this with TW which is my fault.

Ok, I don't think there is any more danger of a skating TW anymore. I believe we have identified at least two scum suspects in Volx, NK15. I am proposing a compromise lynch here on NK15. Multiple people have made the case as can I, all with our own personal nuances.

Vote: Not Known 15

[Mister Rogers]

Heck I guess we will find scum somewhere in [Volx, Worst, Former] (in no particular order). I mean the game is jammed around these 3 people it seems like. :shrug:

I think a daytime cleansing and a night generation would be good for us?

I will simply not lynch Volx today period end of story. Unless something else happens in this thread, I am locked in here.

[Mister Rogers]

Its called Mafia. We lynch and we come back in the day and hopefully our game state improves? Its the game, how it works. And like you didn't even put T v. S in the list because of your conf-bias but w/e. You keep querying me, I will keep answering...

[Mister Rogers]

@Inf: You can drop T v. S in the list on D2 if I am still alive OK?

Ok, I guess you mean the bolded? Meh. Just my experience but you actually have to read the thread to get that, sorry. I will help out though, ok?

I townread Volx, Hugo (townblock) as well as XX, Inf (minimal town reads) which created a PoE list of [Worst, Former, Dray, NK15 (just ur slot tho)]. I started watching Worst for his gamestate post to determine if I could townread him or at least have some way of not believing that he could be scum enough for lynch today; he is a high importance slot due to vet status. Just as I did this, literally in real-time both FF and Worst chain voted Volx. So I voted Worst and it was a Mexican Standoff and we started talking and such about this.

So for me, from my own PoE perspective and the way the game has flowed, that's how I see it. Is it my offical PoE list or anything going forward? No. I will be re-analyzing tomorrow and have a very clear PoE at that time, should I still be alive.

Thanks for asking sir!

[Mister Rogers]

LOL. You first sir.

[Mister Rogers]

Nice job re-reading!

[Mister Rogers]

LOL. What? What do you think that post even means? Do you think it means that we do a NL? Of course we don't, not on D1. Otherwise I am describving a normal Mafia day the same as any other.

[Mister Rogers]

Here is an example of the kind of thing that I mean but its posted by someone else that isn't scummy for attacking people, ok?

1873- I tunneled and mislynched on d1, but then we got our shit together on day 2 and 3 for the town win.

Now do you see? D2 improved, they got a townblock going and started lynching scum. There is like this blockade today and I am hoping that D2 will be like in the above described game by FF and hopefully I will be alive.

[Mister Rogers]

LOL. Well thanks for reminding me that there are scum in thie game that we are supposed to be lynching. I know, I had to compromise and lynch a steallar townie, NK15 but what can I say? I just forgot there was a scum team... :shrug:

[Mister Rogers]

Well I ain't lynching Volx and last time I checked NK15 is in my PoE list and besides his replace I mean it has no hallmarks of a townie action whatsoever. I mean at least FF demonstrated that he read the whole thread. Was he my original scum suspect, no but he certainly will be alot better than Volx. I dunno why it just feels like all the air went out of my game when I realized that he would have to be my vote. :shrug:

Its weird, its just how I feel.

[Mister Rogers]

Look I can't apologize. My PoE is [Worst,FF,Dray,NK15]. Its not a backpedal. I mean unless there is something terribly wrong, town doesn't lynch a strong player D1. I'm not going to sit there and pursue a case that doesn't exist just for the sake of "consistency" (i.e. not backpedaling). You are naming scum suspects you are helping the town. You are on record with your scum and town reads. I am not pursuing your lynch today. That's it. I can't very well try to push a case on Dray, whose posting looks pretty good even though there is a little of it. Only Paranoia and that little action towards Volx makes me think FF isn't town and besides he is also a strong player but I must say that he really hasn't done much with reads and he said he would be back today, which didn't happen. Maybe we could force him to make a game read, I mean that might make sense. After that, I only see NK15. I mean sorry but it is what it is.

[Mister Rogers]

I try and lock the game as soon as possible. Its how I play. Obviously nobody is Conf-town and we obviously down't have the "mutual trust" = "townblock" yet but I try -- I want to break the game and it IS breakable on D1, it simply is.

[Mister Rogers]

So that's it he is unwilliong to compromise folks. This is what we are dealing with. You see it for yourselves.

We have opposing game views and he is unable to compromise. It would have been better to go to night and try and solve this problem but apprently he doesn't want that to happen. LOL that XX is on his PoE list. It makes ZERO sense that he puts himself in the list AFTER like Dray etc. We can all see that this list is TERRIBAD with Volx and XX in in it. So if you choose me, that is a vote for XX and Volx. If you choose Worst, its a vote for FF,Dray,DK15 -- so which looks better to you?

There is NO WAY I am lynching XX or Volx today and any list that has those options in it is from scum. Not to mention that he was unwilling to compromise with a vote that we all know is scummy, NK15.

Vote Worst

[Mister Rogers]

LOL I don't have a buddy but you already knew that. I don't need to push your case, you already did with your scumtastic lynch list.

Vote: Worst

There are players in this game that have a head on their shoulders and I hope there are enough of them. We may still be able to avoid this and go NK15. I am telling you its the best option if Worst-ME is TvT instead of SvT.

[Mister Rogers]

But look at that lynch list: XX,Volx is that how Worst town plays? I mean seriously that's baaaad.

PEDIT: Look you know as well as I do he will read as scum by default, there is no way around it.

See what you fail to mention is that our town gets a chance to use their powers! WHY DIDN'T YOU MENTION THAT!?

[Mister Rogers]

No i'm saying we avoid unnecessary townie bloodshed on slots that aren't actually scummy -- I mean omgosh how can you be town though with XX and Volx in your POE list, I mean seriously!

See I LIKE NIGHT because I know that we get the chance to clear this blockade that we are having. But no, you want to burn useful slots PRIOR to slots that are obvscum before town can act at night too. This is like whey scummy. Anyone that understands this game can see you are seriously trying to give the scum the most advantage possible -- lynching someone that they would normally have to NK.

I OFFERED A COMPROMISE THAT WOULD ALLOW TOWN TO AVOID NEEDLESS BLOOSHED.

But no, Worst has to come back with a POE list of Volx and XX.

Dewd are like joking or are you obvscum?

[Mister Rogers]

Everyone knows NK15 is scummy here and is the best vote for town.

[Mister Rogers]

And why doesn't Worst see it? That's the question...

[Mister Rogers]

Dang I just realized what Worst did. I gave him slack for providing a town game after like pulling teeth and his response? Backstab me AND the town. Not lynching NK15 backstabs the town because it allows the lynch of a functional slot that is not obvscum to be eliminated without scum having to use their NK. I mean sure Worst is right that eventually it MIGHT come that after we lynch NK15 but he has already stated it WILL come to that which is LOGIC-FAIL because he didn't factor in the town night actions that MIGHT resolve our problems. Scum think that way.

PEDIT: LOL DID YOU JUST SAY THAT WE LYNCH TO "ADVANCE THE GAME"??? We have an obvscum slot. Just you suggesting this is scummy.

Lynching for "information" is terribad!

This whole argument about "we won't know his partner" is like totally defeatist and so like Worst is seeing into the future? This is not from town.

[Mister Rogers]

Gosh this is so obvious and the only reason people listen to him is because he has that cute fuzzy yellow avi and everybody just doesn't care about the black eye!

Ok good people can read and they can see what you are doing. I will quit too. And ya I FLAIL my arms in the air saying what you are doing is not from town!

[Mister Rogers]

Sorry I have to make one more post:

If you want the TRUE Mafia theory about obscum slots, it is that we lynch them EARLY because they will NEVER be NK'ed and the town PR's have better things to do than worry about an obvscum player. So if you want to "advance the game", that is the actual theory about it.