Mini Normal 2030: Day 8

[Naomi-Tan]

Creature replaces ManateeDude. Please welcome him!

Oh how unfortunate...

yup. im pretty certain your slot is red thanks to them. unfortunate.

[Creature]

Creature replaces ManateeDude. Please welcome him!

Oh how unfortunate...

yup. im pretty certain your slot is red thanks to them. unfortunate.

Was I the planned mislynch?

[Naomi-Tan]

Well was meant to do this ealier today, but here we go, another round of me spamming theorising ect.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

Prove it.

The self-vote was in response to this. The only way to definitively prove that I'm not in that scum team is by just flipping me as green. I don't want there to be a point later in the game where she acts on the blueprint she set up. This is my first Normal game, so I'm alright with taking an early death to ensure that town doesn't just let red!Naomi get to endgame with town cred for a kill on red!Crimson, shoving me next off of a shoddy link.

Just out of curiosity, how would pushing red!crimson as red!Naomi play into red's wincon if Crimson was getting little to no pressure off anyone but us two and not very high pressure either? wouldn't it be better to let them live on to D2 or D3 and either naturally die or help with Miss lynches?

But addressing the self vote, the idea behind the prove it post is based on a twitter response that jim sterling had to digital homicide.
https://twitter.com/JimSterling/status/ ... 8819437568
To which Digital Homicide sued Jim for deformation (along with many other problems they had with jim) in response jim's lawer said prove it, because it was impossible to prove there is enough pop corn on earth.
Basically I thought it was unprovable and am right in the fact that it can't really be proved with words, a self flip was not something I thought anyone would try.

[the worst]

Creature replaces ManateeDude. Please welcome him!

Oh how unfortunate...

yup. im pretty certain your slot is red thanks to them. unfortunate.

oh wolfy

[Naomi-Tan]

I don't really want to waste todays mislynch on an "afk" slot either so I'm waiting for voyager and so on to speak up

Yeah this is why I didn't jump on the Manatee vote train. I'm leaning towards scum on his slot, but it's important to hear from the slots that disappeared. Thankfully, we have plenty of time left.

your one of the biggest supporters of LaL this game :/

What did I lie about? I didn't vote Manatee because I want to hear from the players that haven't been active before Day 1 ends. There is good reason for Manatee to be the Day 1 vote, but ending the Day early doesn't help town.

true.. but i remember a certain 4 player lurker list.

A list which again, you misrepresented. It wasn't a scum list. It was a list of players that weren't contributing to the game. You made it out like that list was a list of players I had down as scum. Do you still stand by your team of Manatee ( now Creature), me, and Crimson?
Why have you so consistently misrepresented my posts, Naomi? This is beyond misunderstanding my posts. It's intentional misrepresentation that is not consistent with a town player. You're experienced enough to do this as town.

What do you think of the worst after his claim, and do you buy the claim? What's your take on profii?

Meaty, I like it. okay so.. the 4 list thing, at the time you had not given a red read list, but you had given me a pool of players to work with. if you wasn't suspicious of them they wouldn't of came up. I skipped over your math sections as IOA is NAI and I wanted to work with it and focusing on that has helped.

As for your questions. I stand by 2 out of 3 of the pool I gave earlier though I'm not specifying which for tactical reasons, yes i know that's not satisfying. As for miss reping. I just post what I read the posts as. The one just tackled was a miscommunication. the read list is your own doing.

well the worst promised me more stuff and didn't deliver so not too happy about that but his claim I dunno how i feel about yet, im gonna let it sit and ignore it mostly for now.

profl? I think there likely a green given that even with there post restriction stuff they was still giving me pause for thought. wish they'd post more but I can talk with my like day long breaks between massive post spamming.

[Naomi-Tan]

Right time to rip this post apart

On Doughboy: 129 through 155 seem green posts to me, he was trying to forward things and kept his cool doing it. From 200 to 225, more green but less cool. From 248, all hell broke loose, I can't get a clue from all this. So nothing specific, but all his early posts make me think he is/was green.

On Saudade:
Green posts: 47, 486
Red: 85-88-93, refusal to explain why but having a harsh language to apply pressure. 232-233 repulsing pressure with language again.
Unsure: 245, 292-496-619-623 telling other people who to vote for. Could go either way for me, maybe an experienced player can get more of that.
His style looks like he likes to tunnel people and attack a lot, 1112-1115 being a good proof. But he looks like green to most other people

On LE: changing my read. Many many posts seems green: 557, 575 in particular to me. I think I was under the impression he was playing a great red game by voting/unvoting often to influence others but I think it can be towny too after all.

On Flavor Leaf: what was 56? Wifom? Style: Skillful deflection of what's coming at him. Play-by-play description of the game with short posts, but very few personal opinions coming from him until recently. (Reddish?) But he says what he means now, and he's posting more. (Greenish?)

On the worst: I know him briefly from another game. His answers don't have much flavor to my eyes, nothing stands out, I can't know exactly his color. I know he's rational and a good player though, his claim might be a bluff.

well enough explained for now.

[Naomi-Tan]

LE what do you make of Flavor Leaf

I think he's town. He's right to say that his defense of Manatee is hard to justify as scum. I gave some possible reasons why he would do it as scum, but I don't think they're high likelihood. I think he has a lot of faith in his reads.

How come your main read on FL is based on his manatee thing when he had a significant interaction with Naomi who you feel rather strongly about

I’d expect you to at least mention that somehow

To be fair, I feel my manatee defense is the strongest reason to town read me. Townie points for LE.

gross rep fishing with fluff post. :/

[Naomi-Tan]

What did you find weird about Manatee? Is it anything other than the self-vote in RVS?
Parrot flaked from the thread too. Why is Parrot not in your list of suspicious players?

The self-vote, I thought he was mirroring me but did not change when I did. Also voting without any clear reason.
I did not take much time thinking about Parrot because he was absent. I'm busy I won't study an empty slot.

had i get it 'parroting'

[Naomi-Tan]

769 Is just ew, given how even me and flavour have came to the conclusion it was TvT (as well as the rest from what I gather) It reads poorly. It feels like he just ignored our posts at that time as the accusations made in 769 look like some pretty major points you'd want to bring up WAY sooner. Seeing a 'contradictory' post in the first 100 posts of the game and entirely ignoring it for over 600 other posts is just...

VOTE: Crimson

There's no way a green member would ignore this.
Also going with my hidden link theory this matches up with it, im pressuring one of them (LE) so yeah..

I'm neither you or Flavour. Am i not allowed to have a different opinion.

Alright, so I just learned that Naomi doesn't know how probability works. Did she really just try to tell me that if there are 3 red players in a game of 13 players, that 30% of the players are red? If you're going to write at me in a condescending tone about something factual, at least be correct. Yikes.

I'm flipping green this game. To all who read that exchange, if Crimson flips red, Naomi-Tan is a scum partner. There is no way that someone who is town puts that much effort into misrepresenting another player's ISO when there is plenty of town motivation for drawing activity out of the players who are not contributing to the game at all. I gave you an explicit post with numbers to support the opinion that it's important that we hear from those players before the game ends so that they have a paper trail. You misrepresent a post with labeled numbers on it to try to make your reachy case on me.

I'll go out and say red!Naomi, and I'm alright with everyone flipping me green first if it's necessary to be sure that I'm not just trying to get an active green killed early.

You're trying to pin me to Manatee and Crimson? Really? That's what you came up with? Not any of the other players' logic that I've been acting on? I was willing to take the brunt of the pressure for the vote on the worst because saudade made that vote and gave a compelling reason as to why others should press him into action. I've liked Doughboy's votes this game and specifically said that Manatee was also a good vote while I had my vote elsewhere. I've been frustrated at all of the inactive players, and that is where the vast majority of my frustration as been placed. My main challenge to you about your insistence that I am scum is that we can't be content to ignore the possibility that at least one of the inactive players is scum, and I have been insistent that we can't ignore all of those players.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

The fact that she inmediately went with a three
people mafia instead of speculating about its size is TMI actually.

Wait... so.. your both implying there is a red between me and Flavor leaf AND saying that its suspicious that in a 13 player game I can assume 9 players Green 3 red? Guys can i get some pressure over this way.

[Naomi-Tan]

Alright, so I just learned that Naomi doesn't know how probability works. Did she really just try to tell me that if there are 3 red players in a game of 13 players, that 30% of the players are red? If you're going to write at me in a condescending tone about something factual, at least be correct. Yikes.

I'm flipping green this game. To all who read that exchange, if Crimson flips red, Naomi-Tan is a scum partner. There is no way that someone who is town puts that much effort into misrepresenting another player's ISO when there is plenty of town motivation for drawing activity out of the players who are not contributing to the game at all. I gave you an explicit post with numbers to support the opinion that it's important that we hear from those players before the game ends so that they have a paper trail. You misrepresent a post with labeled numbers on it to try to make your reachy case on me.

I'll go out and say red!Naomi, and I'm alright with everyone flipping me green first if it's necessary to be sure that I'm not just trying to get an active green killed early.

You're trying to pin me to Manatee and Crimson? Really? That's what you came up with? Not any of the other players' logic that I've been acting on? I was willing to take the brunt of the pressure for the vote on the worst because saudade made that vote and gave a compelling reason as to why others should press him into action. I've liked Doughboy's votes this game and specifically said that Manatee was also a good vote while I had my vote elsewhere. I've been frustrated at all of the inactive players, and that is where the vast majority of my frustration as been placed. My main challenge to you about your insistence that I am scum is that we can't be content to ignore the possibility that at least one of the inactive players is scum, and I have been insistent that we can't ignore all of those players.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

The fact that she inmediately went with a three
people mafia instead of speculating about its size is TMI actually.

I disagree. I think it’s safe to assume 3 Mafia until other stuff in the game comes up that shows otherwise in a 13p game.

Am I omgusing or is that post just not just straight up mudslinging?

[Naomi-Tan]

Flavor and Mana's slot aren't both on a scum team imo. I don't see scum defending an inactive buddy as much as Flavor did. I think that:
A)Both are town
B)Flavor legimiately thinks Mana is town, but Mana is scum.
C)Flavor is scum who was trying to pocket Mana.

Yeah. It can vary, but generally mini’s have 3 scum, bar multiball.

Ok.

who the heck would pocket an inactive like that? I can understand A and B but C? what even is!

[Naomi-Tan]

Can we all townread me because if I was scum you've already lost anyway

no, but maybe later I can find time to. hows tomorrow looking.

[Naomi-Tan]

hilariously, my role is the same role I fakeclaimed in my last scumgame. T_T

Interesting.

I’m probably gonna green ducky then.

Krazy’s still scum. Sasha backed off real fast, so might be green.

Light Ethos is just odd.

How does a previous game affect this one?

what are you even pulling. Saying my role is the same as i fake claimed last game means that they are claiming this game to have a role thats town exclusive and leaf backed off a bit. I don't know the role as I haven't looked. If flavour is backing off from it though it means that reds would likely target them. Also the language of "probably gonna green ducky" means that there not 100% sure, this is a Benefit of the doubt type deal

[Naomi-Tan]

Flavor and Mana's slot aren't both on a scum team imo. I don't see scum defending an inactive buddy as much as Flavor did. I think that:
A)Both are town
B)Flavor legimiately thinks Mana is town, but Mana is scum.
C)Flavor is scum who was trying to pocket Mana.

Yeah. It can vary, but generally mini’s have 3 scum, bar multiball.

Ok.

C is pointless considering the slot was inactive.

Not if you're planning to let him live. Which is very possbiel, i don't see scum targeting Mana if he's town.

Well i guess that can change now that he has replaced out but that hadn't happened at the time.

how does changing out change the alignment of a slot.

[Naomi-Tan]

How does a previous game affect this one?

are you specifically looking for a response from FL because I nearly keyboard warrior'd this post

Why stop yourself.

[Naomi-Tan]

@Crimson:
1. What's your take on the ongoing disagreement between Naomi and me?
2. Do you lean town on Flavor Leaf after his push on Krazy?

@Flavor Leaf: When is that case on Krazy coming?

This is also scummy points for LE.

Looks like he’s trying to change the subject of he game now that there’s pressure on them.

That's unfair to me. I spend a great deal of my posts responding to Naomi's ongoing attack on me. She comes back with a report about it being suspicious that all I'm doing is defending. I continue responding to her, and then I ask questions to other players. You come back and say it's scummy that I asked other players questions.

I hope you're just fucking with me because if you aren't, I don't know what I'm supposed to do here.

eh fair point. You had answered everything you could of upto that point and tossed stuff back at me, It was the right time to look elsewhere.

[the worst]

Can't remember. Please stop quote pyramidijg.

[Naomi-Tan]

Well was meant to do this ealier today, but here we go, another round of me spamming theorising ect.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

Prove it.

Sure. Flip me green now.
VOTE: Light Ethos

Don't self vote. Literally pointless and is scummy af.

Why is it pointless? Why is it scummy?

You supposedly know you're town and shouldn't be wasting time on self voting. Only three times i've seen people self vote is:
-RVS.
-As noob scum to prove that they are not afraid of being lynched.
-As frustrated town. Most of the time this doesn't help and only worsens their image even more.

*sighs* I'm pretty frustrated by your play, Naomi.
If you flip green this game, I'll be very upset.

Well was meant to do this ealier today, but here we go, another round of me spamming theorising ect.

You can't have it both ways, Naomi. Either I am scum or Crimson and Manatee are scum. There isn't a plausible world in which all three of us are scum.

Prove it.

Sure. Flip me green now.
VOTE: Light Ethos

Nobody has paid any attention to the possibility that you're red, Naomi, and if you're green, your long-term history of trying to discredit me is not going to help me out later on.

I flip green, all of you go for Naomi-Tan.

You chose a good person to go after, red!Naomi.

It's going to take flipping me green to show town that you're red.

well shoot, I'm sorry I broke you. (not that i'm gonna stop pressuring) If your green it'll come out eventually hang in there. but my next post is gonna push on you probably as I saw you made a post that wasn't dead inside.

'NO FRUSTRATION HERE GUYS! HES TOTALLY RED, WHAT? THERE'S A WALL OF EVIDENCE RIGHT AFTER THE SELF VOTE AND BEFORE IT THAT SHOWS FRUSTRATION. OH JUST IGNORE THAT, HES TOTALLY NOT FRUSTRATED' - an interpretation of this 3rd point from crimsons perspective as;

Don't self vote. Literally pointless and is scummy af.

meaning he already discounted C or more likely there red, cause how the fuck do you miss that.

[Naomi-Tan]

You probably can’t even explain why you’re putting me to red for having a different opinion.

Didn't move you to pure red, just a Fos. Why? Because, exactly, you have a different opinion than everyone and that you are very vocal and fervent about it. It makes me look like your with him. Not scummy in itself, more like guilt by association. If the others think Manatee is red, then you might be too from what I am seeing. Not accusing you formally, just seeing you as suspicious.

different doesn't always mean bad, having a view that differs from others shows your thinking about the game normally, it can also mean your defending someone for credit later on (called white knighting or WK for short) sometimes a differing view point leads to wagons like LE and sometimes it leads no where special, like profil. If your lucky you can also strike a TvT up where by the end your certain you was dealing with a green (like I did with flavour, though that wasn't a major diffing as not much had happened)

Sometimes it can also be used as a reaction test, but I'll let someone else explain that.

As for chainsawing, thats a term used when you attack someone who is attacking your partner. by making them look worse you can start a counter trian or just make people doubt the validity of the push. it could also be called trying to discredit i guess.

Oh so it's ok for Sasha to have a different opinion but if think Flavor v you is TvS then i'm scum?

YES! it was such an obvious interaction that most people just kept away anyway and let it play out. I worked it out in short order and just bared the heat of Leaf for a while for it.

[Naomi-Tan]

Since this is the first vote on me anyone ever casted, can I have a reason or two so I can try to defend myself? I want to know why you think I'm scum.

they voted for you after your block read list which I slapped them for, but they have a resolve to see this out.

[Naomi-Tan]

You probably can’t even explain why you’re putting me to red for having a different opinion.

Didn't move you to pure red, just a Fos. Why? Because, exactly, you have a different opinion than everyone and that you are very vocal and fervent about it. It makes me look like your with him. Not scummy in itself, more like guilt by association. If the others think Manatee is red, then you might be too from what I am seeing. Not accusing you formally, just seeing you as suspicious.

different doesn't always mean bad, having a view that differs from others shows your thinking about the game normally, it can also mean your defending someone for credit later on (called white knighting or WK for short) sometimes a differing view point leads to wagons like LE and sometimes it leads no where special, like profil. If your lucky you can also strike a TvT up where by the end your certain you was dealing with a green (like I did with flavour, though that wasn't a major diffing as not much had happened)

Sometimes it can also be used as a reaction test, but I'll let someone else explain that.

As for chainsawing, thats a term used when you attack someone who is attacking your partner. by making them look worse you can start a counter trian or just make people doubt the validity of the push. it could also be called trying to discredit i guess.

Oh so it's ok for Sasha to have a different opinion but if think Flavor v you is TvS then i'm scum?

just wanna touch on this a second time. Yeah, I hate this post. it paints that I find anyone starting a stance against the popular flow which is just incorrect. there has been times where I may have questioned peoples views on gray area push back (Flavour on manatee is one of those) but generally speaking I take no issue with going against the mold as it creates discussion. but there has to be some reason to it! finding the early interaction between me and flavour as anything other than TvT is madness IMO.

[Naomi-Tan]

Maybe-not-so-spicy read:

Flavor Leaf is town

Town read me again, I dare you. See what happens.

I town read you, come at me bro.

[Naomi-Tan]

Maybe Saudade for reference too.

Town

good post

NAI / buddying post

[Naomi-Tan]

Maybe Saudade for reference too.

Town

better question. for what reason. you just made an alignment statement and didn't give anything to back it up and I nearly missed it! thanks Saudade! so explain your thoughts here.

[Naomi-Tan]

Flavor Leaf's reads align with mine more or less, with subtle differences.
If I wasn't voting for Sasha right now I'd be voting you Krazy, so his arguments are not stupid at all.

its really strange to me that I read both of you as green but disagree with both trains.