Excalibur [Endgame]

[Varsoon]

You're right it should be (everyone minus Merlin and scum).
No one should self-exempt because they may be Arthur and not know it.

Anyway.
Enough of that shit, please.

[Auro]

i don't see what you're implying w/the italicized policy lynch
why would you want to keep someone playing anti-town by rando-dueling alive?

In this playerlist, does anti-town imply scum?
It'll be shitty anyway, but I'm not sure if that a person gladiates is enough to be lynched as more probable scum as the challenged.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If Merlin knows that Arthur has claimed the sword, why shouldn’t they confirm it?

Because arthur ALREADY HAS THE SWORD and all merlin confirming doing is telling him to shoot it - something that they are likely to do within 1-2 nights anyway, and even if they don't shoot it it's /just/ a vig, I think I'd rather have an additional confirmed town hidden away

How does Merlin get confirmed without confirming Arthur?

They don't until we're near the end of the game, before mylo/lylo

And when they are, they can claim merlin

But how does that confirm Merlin? The only way that Merlin is ever confirmed is if they identify Arthur before he attempts to vig. Once Arthur vigges, anyone can claim Merlin. If that actually happens is maybe where a final gladiate would happen, I suppose.

[Auro]

hey look I was right about other players being annoyed by the setup talk

Big difference when it comes from a player who's annoyed by it because, from his perspective, there's already an optimal D1 strategy.

@Nancy: Scum claiming Merlin seems like a really bad idea before LyLo/MyLo, real Merlin also claims and both die.

[Dunnstral]

Once Arthur vigges, anyone can claim Merlin.

Who cares if Merlin gets cc'd if it's before lylo

[SirCakez]

i don't see what you're implying w/the italicized policy lynch
why would you want to keep someone playing anti-town by rando-dueling alive?

In this playerlist, does anti-town imply scum?
It'll be shitty anyway, but I'm not sure if that a person gladiates is enough to be lynched as more probable scum as the challenged.

Nope but if they are being actively malicious (i;e wasting a day by dueling w/o consensus) then they may as well be
I suppose it depends on the scenario
right now I don't think anyone is probable enough scum to where I would lynch them over a YOLO-dueler

[Nancy Drew 39]

I mean after Arthur's outed, they can only just claim to be Merlin.

NO... Merlin is still confirmed town, we know there's only 1 merlin in the setup, regardless of what arthur is doing with the sword

Merlin outting means he dies next night - there's no protection for him, if he doesn't die he lives on as a hidden IC that scum have to look for

Oh okay, I see now.

[Dunnstral]

Ya'll are hard over-thinking this shit, which, imo, is what scum wants.
It's really fuckin' simple.

Everyone tries to claim sword N1.
Whoever gets it enjoys being BP and can claim if they need to confirm as IC if dueled.
If Merlin survives to D2, Merlin claims to become IC and, if he knows Arthur has the sword, he says so and Arthur keeps their mouth shut or
if he knows Arthur doesn't have the sword then he claims who Arthur is and boom
Town has 2 ICs on D2 and a secret BP IC or
Town has 1 IC on D2 and a secret BP Vig IC
If Non-confirmed-Arthur town gets the sword, they never attempt to vig with it because they are just going to shoot themselves in the foot 12 out of 14 times.

And that's it.
There's no more optimal play around it.
If you try to publicly gate who goes for the sword, you don't account for
1. Townies that disregard this shit
2. Scum having control of killing claimants/not
Basically playing around it as a public cop only works once and even then it's iffy.

Our goal should be to shut the fuck up and stop tilting who may or may not be Merlin and just scumhunt
There's no more point to discussing the Sword mechanics.

Like people see 2 paragraphs out through out bad reaction gifs

UT is really scummy

Merlin claiming day 2 is not good play

[Dunnstral]

And claiming who Arthur is on day 2 when he doesn't have the sword is also not good play

Seriously?
People jumped at varsoon like he was a good walking among men

[Dunnstral]

Town has 2 ICs on D2 and a secret BP IC or
Town has 1 IC on D2 and a secret BP Vig IC

And all those ICS die before lylo/mylo

[SirCakez]

I "jumped" at him b/c he tried to get the game moving on lol

[DVa]

How is there more value in having a pointless stealth IC than there is in townclearing the next day's lynch or mislynch?

And you are ignoring the possibility that the *next consensus scumread is scum* in which case we get a GUILTY and the sword is unclaimed and then we get to use the test again.

Do you not get that?

You guys are not playing toward best case scenario.

Best case scenario:
We force top two scumreads to gladiate
The winner is forced to claim sword
But they're scum so they don't and it remains unclaimed
Then we lynch them and rinse, repeat the next day

Like you all are thinking only of sword giving us an IC but it's *way more valuable* as having the potential to give us guilties

Effectively it gives us the chance to have a public daycop and a lynch each day phase

So no, "everyone claims the sword" is a shit plan

[Nancy Drew 39]

like d.va I said earlier that someone who rando-gladiates early should be PLed
that's def not what I want

Disagree that it should be a direct

Policy Lynch

, this almost feels like pre-emptive opportunism.

Why? Rando-gladiating is terrible for town. If they gladiate and actually lynch scum, than obviously they wouldn’t be policy lynched.

What’s to prevent scum from yolo lynching?

[Dunnstral]

How is there more value in having a pointless stealth IC than there is in townclearing the next day's lynch or mislynch?

The 'pointless stealth IC' should be MERLIN and ARTHUR

[Varsoon]

Shortens the lynch pool, nothing wrong with it.
But I'm of the mind that more ICs early is better than not having them.
Regardless, Merlin has to claim if survived to D2 due to Arthur info not flipping on Merlin's death; so long as both are in setup killing Merlin before claim wipes 2 ICs off the map.

@DVa: If we consensus catch two scum on D1 in this game then scum have already fucking lost.

[Dunnstral]

Ya'll are hard over-thinking this shit, which, imo, is what scum wants.
It's really fuckin' simple.

Everyone tries to claim sword N1.
Whoever gets it enjoys being BP and can claim if they need to confirm as IC if dueled.
If Merlin survives to D2, Merlin claims to become IC and, if he knows Arthur has the sword, he says so and Arthur keeps their mouth shut or
if he knows Arthur doesn't have the sword then he claims who Arthur is and boom
Town has 2 ICs on D2 and a secret BP IC or
Town has 1 IC on D2 and a secret BP Vig IC
If Non-confirmed-Arthur town gets the sword, they never attempt to vig with it because they are just going to shoot themselves in the foot 12 out of 14 times.

And that's it.
There's no more optimal play around it.
If you try to publicly gate who goes for the sword, you don't account for
1. Townies that disregard this shit
2. Scum having control of killing claimants/not
Basically playing around it as a public cop only works once and even then it's iffy.

Our goal should be to shut the fuck up and stop tilting who may or may not be Merlin and just scumhunt
There's no more point to discussing the Sword mechanics.

BAD POST

[Auro]

How is there more value in having a pointless stealth IC than there is in townclearing the next day's lynch or mislynch?

And you are ignoring the possibility that the *next consensus scumread is scum* in which case we get a GUILTY and the sword is unclaimed and then we get to use the test again.

Do you not get that?

You guys are not playing toward best case scenario.

Best case scenario:
We force top two scumreads to gladiate
The winner is forced to claim sword
But they're scum so they don't and it remains unclaimed
Then we lynch them and rinse, repeat the next day

Like you all are thinking only of sword giving us an IC but it's *way more valuable* as having the potential to give us guilties

Effectively it gives us the chance to have a public daycop and a lynch each day phase

So no, "everyone claims the sword" is a shit plan

Your best case scenario is reliant on very good town cohesion, and doesn't account for "townies that disregard this shit" as Varsoon puts it. Trying to follow this would fail even if two or three town play against it - say, also claiming, randomly gladiating, blah blah blah.

[DVa]

Everyone tries to claim sword N1.
Whoever gets it enjoys being BP and can claim if they need to confirm as IC if dueled.
If Merlin survives to D2,

Merlin claims to become IC

and, if he knows Arthur has the sword, he says so and Arthur keeps their mouth shut or
if he knows Arthur doesn't have the sword then he claims who Arthur is and boom
T

Considering 216 is an awful plan, I'm going to go ahead and HURT: Tripod

[Varsoon]

216's a great plan and the only one that accounts for all of town not being on the goddamn ball.

[Auro]

like d.va I said earlier that someone who rando-gladiates early should be PLed
that's def not what I want

Disagree that it should be a direct

Policy Lynch

, this almost feels like pre-emptive opportunism.

Why? Rando-gladiating is terrible for town. If they gladiate and actually lynch scum, than obviously they wouldn’t be policy lynched.

What’s to prevent scum from yolo lynching?

If EVERYONE is on the same page that it is terrible for town, sure.
I've just a general distrust that town players wouldn't rando-gladiate out of what they think are strong scumreads.
PL'd in the sense of *that* gladiate itself, not in the future.
I think scum would be warier than to YOLO lynch and screw themselves over, anyway.

[Dunnstral]

so long as both are in setup killing Merlin before claim wipes 2 ICs off the map.

You know what else wipes 2 ics off the map? Merlin claiming and saying who arthur is day 2

[Nancy Drew 39]

Ya'll are hard over-thinking this shit, which, imo, is what scum wants.
It's really fuckin' simple.

Everyone tries to claim sword N1.
Whoever gets it enjoys being BP and can claim if they need to confirm as IC if dueled.
If Merlin survives to D2, Merlin claims to become IC and, if he knows Arthur has the sword, he says so and Arthur keeps their mouth shut or
if he knows Arthur doesn't have the sword then he claims who Arthur is and boom
Town has 2 ICs on D2 and a secret BP IC or
Town has 1 IC on D2 and a secret BP Vig IC
If Non-confirmed-Arthur town gets the sword, they never attempt to vig with it because they are just going to shoot themselves in the foot 12 out of 14 times.

And that's it.
There's no more optimal play around it.
If you try to publicly gate who goes for the sword, you don't account for
1. Townies that disregard this shit
2. Scum having control of killing claimants/not
Basically playing around it as a public cop only works once and even then it's iffy.

Our goal should be to shut the fuck up and stop tilting who may or may not be Merlin and just scumhunt
There's no more point to discussing the Sword mechanics.

+1

Agree, everyone obviously except for Merlin.

Yeah, I’m starting to get a headache over it.

[SirCakez]

varsoon is wading into the setup talk despite trying to end it what a guy
i think there are definitely players in this game who would YOLO as scum

[Auro]

Considering 216 is an awful plan, I'm going to go ahead and HURT: Tripod

What did Tripod post? GIF doesn't show for me.

[Auro]

varsoon is wading into the setup talk despite trying to end it what a guy
i think there are definitely players in this game who would YOLO as scum

Why are you so anti-engagement?!