newbie 1905: pictures from my phone (GAME OGRE !!!)

[the worst]

Don't lynch anti-town over scum. that becomes policy lynching. :/

[the worst]

Jumble, please claim.

[the worst]

you guys are clearly conflicted over who is scummier. sometimes anti-town and scummy are one and the same

I mean holistically sure but for town to be playing against the town they do have to be town

it's also natural for scum to try and blend in, at least to an extent, so...
┐(´д｀)┌

hard disagree and you're promoting policy lynching / lynching based on skill rather than alignment I think?

[the worst]

Wtf even TW.

Bring it. What's your problem?

[the worst]

TW, Wtf

Wtf even TW.

Bring it. What's your problem?

[the worst]

we have two heavily competing wagons approaching deadline rapidly. I am never leaving them unclaimed and exposing us to the risk of hammering a TPR


pedit: I think there's layers of analysis underneath that (for example, what does scum actually gain from electing to be antitown?) but yeah I think it's a mafia theory thing

[the worst]

Since pushing for two additional claims that now makes 4 VT assuming U2 claims the same. We now have a pretty narrow PR pool.

I can't really help that we had a lolclaim from a VT at the start of the day and that Urist decided to claim as well?

what's your suggestion, we just hammer an unclaimed slot? it's {jumble, urap2} here imo. What's the alternative?

[the worst]

@URAP2 thanks for that comment. I will absolutely defend the call to ask for claims from both of you.

I think Jumble might actually be the right lynch here but I'm not sure I like it.

[the worst]

Since pushing for two additional claims that now makes 4 VT assuming U2 claims the same. We now have a pretty narrow PR pool.

I can't really help that we had a lolclaim from a VT at the start of the day and that Urist decided to claim as well?

what's your suggestion, we just hammer an unclaimed slot? it's {jumble, urap2} here imo. What's the alternative?

I see a counter argument that it might be better to lynch a claimed vt on day one even if they have higher town equity than an unclaimed slot for the purposes of protecting the integrity of town power roles

I think this is an abstract plan and pulls the value of the game away from dayplay towards nightplay which imo is less valuable from a teaching POV but I can see why it's surprising

[the worst]

It's pretty scummy considering he was trying to claim Jumble is town based on meta. The whole thing has been a farce really.

Have you been reading my iso or did you decide on this position of shade before reading the game? I've been saying Jumble reads closer to his town meta and I'd be pretty surprised given his playstyle/experience etc. if he decided to simultaneously play a really obvious scumgame in Amphibians and correctly imitate his town meta here

I've also been begging people to engage with me on this which you've failed to do. Instead you suddenly appear at EoD calling my play farcical? That's a joke.

[the worst]

I'll gladly take feedback and talk through stuff but I'm not gonna take that I'm hard defending Jumble when all I have been doing is asking people to give him due consideration and work with me on sorting. That is foul shading and 1252 is frankly the most disappointing post in the thread.

[the worst]

VOTE: Urist

Just gonna be spicy again. I don't think Jumble reds, and I don't think I have the availability for the next couple of hours to fairly case urap2.

[the worst]

due consideration

Yes

work with me on sorting

Yes

But then you wanted BOTH claims. Then you single-handedly took power into your own hands and squeezed a claim out of Jumble.
This screams scum/anti-town and IMHO is policy-lynchable.

nonsense. I refuse to have two competing wagons on:
1) jumble who is more widely scumread I believe, and
2) urap2 who has social plans before the deadline

with a risk of hitting a town power role? you're not listening to why I chose to make that suggestion.

[the worst]

It's pretty scummy considering he was trying to claim Jumble is town based on meta. The whole thing has been a farce really.

What's even your angle here? @CT

[the worst]

I think Urist > Jumble > URAP2 are the better lynches today. I'll Bbl.

[the worst]

So you got what you wanted in terms of claims to solve all the PR's (inb4 you have a rolecop on scum so you get 2 shots)
Now you're finally agreeing to support the EASIEST WAGON IMAGINABLE.

I mean I'm forced to decide between {Urist, Jumble} realistically. I want URAP2 but it's not a good decision.

[the worst]

I'm going to need some thoughts soon about actually lynching Urist, is anyone for/against?

[the worst]

sorry I'm not sure how to react to that?

if we lynch urap2 now we still have the closed TPR pool dilemma you're outlining here (his flip has his role so )

[the worst]

Hi here, I'm the worst.

(if you're on android try the "request desktop site" option - I find it helps)

[the worst]

Guys you're not going to get a lot out of wagoning me at deadline. I'm roaming around a foreign city with very infequent connection, and will be here to post as much or as little as is possible. I will not have the time to defend myself but lolwagoning me at the end of day one isn't a good idea.

[the worst]

Vork for ~the same thing

[the worst]

I asked Jumble and URAP2 for claims given Jumble is the generally accepted lynch and URAP2 is busy irl. Cheeky appeared out of nowhere and shaded me for it.

[the worst]

I'll vote Jumble to avoid no lynching but I think Urist is a better call.

[the worst]

narp Jumble claimed vt tho

[the worst]

It's pretty scummy considering he was trying to claim Jumble is town based on meta. The whole thing has been a farce really.

what's your suggestion, we just hammer an unclaimed slot? it's {jumble, urap2} here imo. What's the alternative?

You're playing silly here - you know you could have asked for a claim after you decided which was scummier and before hammering. I'm not saying hammer them blind and you know I'm not saying that.

Since pushing for two additional claims that now makes 4 VT assuming U2 claims the same. We now have a pretty narrow PR pool.

I can't really help that we had a lolclaim from a VT at the start of the day and that Urist decided to claim as well?

what's your suggestion, we just hammer an unclaimed slot? it's {jumble, urap2} here imo. What's the alternative?

I see a counter argument that it might be better to lynch a claimed vt on day one even if they have higher town equity than an unclaimed slot for the purposes of protecting the integrity of town power roles

I think this is an abstract plan and pulls the value of the game away from dayplay towards nightplay which imo is less valuable from a teaching POV but I can see why it's surprising

It's pretty scummy considering he was trying to claim Jumble is town based on meta. The whole thing has been a farce really.

Have you been reading my iso or did you decide on this position of shade before reading the game? I've been saying Jumble reads closer to his town meta and I'd be pretty surprised given his playstyle/experience etc. if he decided to simultaneously play a really obvious scumgame in Amphibians and correctly imitate his town meta here

I've also been begging people to engage with me on this which you've failed to do. Instead you suddenly appear at EoD calling my play farcical? That's a joke.

I'll gladly take feedback and talk through stuff but I'm not gonna take that I'm hard defending Jumble when all I have been doing is asking people to give him due consideration and work with me on sorting. That is foul shading and 1252 is frankly the most disappointing post in the thread.

I'll admit I forced out a claim of Urist prematurely so I added to the problem. I wouldn't have minded lynching him if we couldve got enough votes. I wouldn't have minded one more claim before hammer but asking for two is reckless.

Oh TW. You're resorting to shading me now? You have been all over the place about Jumble, I'm not using this to shade you I want to know what on earth you're thinking here. A lot of people, myself included suspected Jumble but there's been an awful lot of hedging around his wagon, so much so it's pretty clear he's town from that alone. I think we flip him and move on before we destroy ourselves completely. I'm staunch on my Yyotta and FC townreads so watch for scum pushing the lynchbait slot tomorrow.

thoughts on this exchange while you're here?

[the worst]

I don't think he's disaplying the same unconscious self defensive TPR traits he was in Canines, I was kinda loathe

[the worst]

ye I don't dig Vork's vote much either
I can only hope I'll be here tomorrow tbqh but we're not lynching me. something like {Cheeky, URAP2} is an ok solve so I'm trusting you to keep an eye on this after you've rested up.

[the worst]

eh it's too close to deadline.
VOTE: Jumble

[the worst]

Urist why did you just appear to give intent to hammer...

[the worst]

TW how can you not townread me here?

Why do you feel entitled to be townread by me? Genuinely intrigued

[the worst]

@CT maybe. Working with the fact I know I'm town you can see why your jump on me a few pages ago looked gross right?

[the worst]

Why are we lynching a confirmed VT again?

What do you mean by this?

[the worst]

Half an hour to go. I've probably got nothing and I think Cheeky hit the nail on the head with that last post to Jumble.

[the worst]

see you soon Jumbz.

[the worst]

@fc I'll let the duck defend himself first, I want to be a spectator of this and then contribute of what I have to say about the subject. Is that ok?

I think Cheeky did a great job at creating PR WIFOM; she said she was going to be nightkilled because of "tradition", and after that said that protective PRs should be on their townreads. I think she was spewing "I am PR" thus she saved our real PRs. I don't see the nightkill as anything more deep than that for now.

Just caught up quickly. I think this is an analysis I agree with very strongly; for what it's worth I tried to create some tw vs. cheeky drama at the end of the day to see if I could steer the nightkill onto myself.

Can anyone explain why there's votes on me? I might have missed something which is clearly obvious for all of you but I have literally no idea why people think I'm scum right now. (holiday mode likely isn't helping me here)

[the worst]

ConfTown

Vorkuta, PvtUrist, pinturicchio

LeanTown

YyottaCat, teh worst

LeanScum

u r a person 2, foodcoats

VOTE: URAP2

come at me

Urist; Claimed VT + scum confident in manipulating me as D2 lynch, unlikely NK1.

Vorkuta; strong

logical

players are a large threat to scum but their flip will too likely identify them/clear Urist. less-likely NK1.

Teh Wurs; Big active IC. Night death takes Vorkuta's attention off of them and onto real scum. less-likely NK1.

Yyotta; next to useless NK, potential scapegoat for D2 lynch. very unlikely NK1.

Pintu; town player but not immediate threat/benefit to scum. possible NK1.

Cheeky; strong active player, independent thus threat to scum, most PR looking. Can blame Urist for kill. likely NK1.

FC; Urist is scum. (if one of us is town while the other is scum, FC ain't dying either way). extremely unlikely NK1.

URAP2; Mediocre town contributions (bad town or scum). unlikely NK1.

I like duck but alright. Willing to see how things go.

Urist you're looking pretty hedgy here. Take a stance. I'm worried my late d1 call to swing the lynch back to you might have been on the money.

[the worst]

Also foodcoats thinks I'm a good lynch - how do you feel about a tw/foodcoats team? do you think scum!food is voting me here or this is town!food who's onto the evil scum ducky?

be interesting to see how URAP2 re-enters the thread

has your read on foodcoats changed at all since you originally decided his pred was scum?

[the worst]

It's to do with your squeezing out 2 claims and it being VERY anti-town, combined with your overall 'presence' D1

wrt eod1 I think I've explained myself pretty thoroughly.. :/ I wanted a URAP2 lynch and would have preferred him to claim; ths flow of the thread was against Jumble and I was having a hard time getting anyone to engage with me about reconsidering the mob read on him. So it was a necessity for Jumble to claim if he'd be the D1 lynch and I wanted a claim from the player I was hoping to successfully lynch.

If you think I have the balls to pull this kind of stuff as scum, I'm slightly flattered. I'm also not sure what my 'presence' has to do with me being scum? I'm here to provide direction and momentum in the game + impart sitemeta and knowledge (and offer opinions on what I consider good play, with an 'objective' spin--I am not permitted in this role to lie about what I consider good play. I've been a scum IC once and ultimately avoided lying about good play somewhat at the cost of my credibility).

There isn't really much for me to say about the Cheeky nightkil. I have a couple of observations but I don't think that points to anyone particularly strongly.

[the worst]

Got anything to talk to me about foodcoats?

[the worst]

1376 is more shade against your opinion on my playstyle, than alignment indicative statements. My "waffling" on Jumble should be pretty obviously me trying to find people to help me sort him and struggling immensely (save for Pintu who pointed out some marked difference between his last towngame but had to go before we could common sense check).

Put aside your accusation against my preference for how day one was handled: what part of any of what you're talking about comes from scum?

[the worst]

This is tantamount to a policy lynch suggestion because:
1) you do not like the way I post ("blendy"), and
2) you disagree with my suggestion for how claims were handled d1

letter is towny enough; Cheeky disagreed with it as well. she's probably a stronger player than I am all things considered but I'll always contest that there's multiple ways to handle that situation and neither of them are objectively wrong.

I hate to yell "policy lynch" as a means of defending myself but you're applying level 0 logic and seem to have just decided I need to die Because Reasons.

if you actually think I'm scum step a level deeper into the void. let's jam. and if you all DO lynch me I want to make sure this isn't a loss in 5p.

[the worst]

I did on day one - avoiding lynching an unclaimed TPR slot. I wanted urap2 lynched, and the mob wanted Jumble lynched (albeit I wasn't sold on him being town either)

[the worst]

I'm not going to pull the IC card the same way I'm grateful nobody in this game is pulling the newbie card, but I am going to remind candidly: I am not allowed to mechanically scumside and then yell that what I'm doing is mechanically redeemable without a pretty detailed explanation post-game. The explanation is in the thread. If you think I'm scum, you're going to need to go a step deeper than your disagreement with me on d1 claim mechanics.

I'm not gonna trample on you pushing me ot suggesting I'm scum. this stuff is the spirit of the game. but I'll be pretty sad if this is it.

[the worst]

Ok duck- HELP US

Sorry Vork but I feel like this is a rehash of what has already been spoken about. You're pushing me for a mechanical hot take which you disagree about.

I don't have a PC or laptop readily available to respond to your post in detail, and I don't think there's anything I can say summarily that I haven't already said.

[the worst]

VOTE: Yyotta
I know what you're getting at and I'd be quite upset feeling like I fundamentally don't agree with an IC mechanically as well. Thank you you for taking the time to consider where I was coming from, though. If you do think I'm a wolf outside of that, I'm open to talking through more with you.

[the worst]

I don't think I even need to explain how little I wanted that to happen but it's probably something to go into post-game

we lynch urap2 tomorrow

sleep well fam

[the worst]

Goooood morning. Don't say what, but is anyone else slightly surprised by something?

pedit: oh yeah I was surprised urap2 was softing TPR yet survived n1 and n2

VOTE: Pinturicchio

[the worst]

D1 - Look scummy enough to stay alive through N1
N1 - Red check on yyotta
D2 - Quick hammer yyotta for style points
N2 - Red Check Pintu (You tried to be subtle moving wagons away from yyotta, but I saaaw you)
D3 - CELEBRATION!

If this is a thing and I read your refusal to claim d1 as a town power role soft correctly I'm going to be so overjoyed

[the worst]

ah okay, hit me up. I didn't mean it as an intentional soft, more like activity I'd expect to see from TPRs.

fantastic choice of checks both nights btw, even if Yyotta was green that would have been the perfect cop target.

[the worst]

I agree with you on jumble. YY is in the same boat as jumble, but again it's kind of a

cop out

to lynch lurkers.

It's like on law and order or something where the murder suspect is told their father was killed and they respond with "oh shucks, that's not ideal." It just doesn't seem to match up

And Urap2- you're pushing for the urist wagon. Again. We've been through this. I specifically told you that it won't fly while I'm around.

My apologies, Sheriff.

These are some of my favourite crumbs I've seen. Just cheeky enough to slip through.

Ironically this is going up there with a fakeclaim pinturicchio made once.

pedit: yeah great call. I'll do a write-up post-game and stuff. (assuming we already won I'll start that now)

[the worst]

I had another TPR theory this game. Wonder if it's true or not.

[the worst]

Actually a very good point.

[the worst]

Vork baited it well; I figured he'd picked up your were a TPR as well

[the worst]

I had the same problem (actually similar kinda thing happened in the other newbie game I had a cop in). Being careful not to soft incorrect innos is bloody hard.

[the worst]

Cheeky<3

[the worst]

my brian hruts...

[the worst]

lol

jk

i am the cop game is over you can post

Jailkeeper soft spotted
I'll be killing you tonight

[the worst]

Yeeet! Well played town. Amazing modding schadd_ <3
pintu/tw lovers is probably slightly too real

post-game ramble coming shortly

[the worst]

Firstly I'm sorry for the left of centre mechanical call d1. I can see why it was pretty vexing to a lot of people on the list and why it generated a lot of heat.

In hindsight there were a few different ways to tackle the situation and I think from a theoretical point of view CheekyTeeky's suggestion is definitely the most frequently mechanically sound (think through who the best lynch is, then push for a claim). But like in practice I think I would have ended up pushing URAP2 to claim over Jumble and the game would have gone completely differently.

But yeah, still: if I had the time and thought through it, I could have recommended a better general response to this kind of situation. I think as a player, what I suggested isn't AWFUL, and is defensible. I'm just disappointed in myself that as an IC I didn't take the time to crunch through what the best recommendation was.

Anyway just some thoughts about individual players. If anyone wants to talk about or ask me about anything please feel free.

Also like if any of this does not feel relevant or you disagree w how I'm reading your playstyle please reach out bc I'd love to talk more... I'm lonely.....

NotAJumbleOfNumbers

Sorry about your day one lynch here; I think you played pretty well and your meta is starting to take shape a little. So secretly I was also following Newbie 1902 (your scumgame) and had a pretty strong feeling that your alignment in that game and this game were different. Unfortunately I didn't really have an opportunity to act on that, and the only player I trusted to level with me on your meta/who could read you without cold-reading the thread turned out to be scum. :<

But seriously, welcome back to mafia and I hope you're enjoying it even more this time round. I think the fact you stuck around for this game in spite of its length and difficulty to follow was seriously cool.

u r a person 2

So I love the name and positive energy. I mentioned that during the game and I totally wasn't trying to pocket you. I think the mafia world is always too short on people who treat other people well so it's a pleasure to have you on board.

Your cop skillz were also absolutely dynamite this game; getting two guilties is at random is something like a 5.71% chance??? and the way that you analysed and crunched the correct information in this game to pick the correct targets was absolutely terrific.

{Yyotta, Jumble} was always the best pool to cop n1 (outlier of Urist, but he was also very active). Because they were always going to be One Alignment Or The Other and there was not enough of the specific skill in the player list to read them correctly. Then picking your n2 target off bad associatives with your red check in a 60 page game was awesome. You should be super proud of yourself because not many people can pull this kind of stuff off.

The only thing I'd really be wary of is double checking your language as an investigative role with information. This is pretty hard because you also can't sound 'too forced'. But when you say something like "I think XXX is town" or "I'm pretty sure XXX is town", you will convince people that you've cleared that player. It's always handy to throw in something like "I'm townreading pinturicchio but it's not 100% confident" if that makes sense?

In a recent game I played, on day two the cop cleared the player who was night killed. On day two he said "I am reading that [night killed person] and the worst are the same alignment". The cop was killed night two. Luckily he was correct, but he hadn't cleared me!!

foodcoats

It's kinda hard to fault you and provide a whole lot of feedback; you were super obvious town and played well. In my heart of hearts I really hoped that your day one vt claim actually came from a town power role, but I kinda knew it wasn't likely.

Yeah the main thing I'd say is that claiming vt unprompted day one can be problematic later. Like this game, it did close the TPR pool down quite a lot.

I feel like we're probably pretty similar in a few ways w our playstyles but I think your intuition is probably stronger. Your early alarm at the easy townreads on volxen and like your great labelled picture meme wrt lynching Yyotta turned out to be some alarmingly good reads. I also liked how you scumread me similarly to Vork after the d1 shenanigans but pretty quickly came around and realised it probably wasn't scum indicative.

Yeah.. well played over all. I'll be keen to see how your style develops. :>

YyottaCat

I always struggle a little more with giving scum feedback sorry. I think you've got some parts of your game down pat (don't over-focus on post content because it kills tonality, etc.) and when you were here I think you sounded OK. The main things which I think you'll develop more over time are like

- understanding how other people are thinking. I think some of your posts kinda felt like they were on a very different wavelength from the rest of the list, which made it harder to engage with you sometimes.

- just stay active and talk to people. It's a skill that's a lot easier to develop as town and then bring back to your scumgame, but if you're not feeling confident or like you know what to post next, just try striking a conversation with someone about something (ask them questions, or ask for their opinion on a thought you're having!) and see if it gets you more excited for the game.

I'm wary of the fact you're quite keen to improve so hopefully this makes sense and gives you a couple of things to work on. Let me know if you'd like to chat about anything specific.

Vorkuta

So reading a couple of your other games I can see your style here was pretty different. I found your earlier hesitancy to talk through things in detail & engage on your reads looked pretty wolfy; but then like once we started talking that one night and Urist was there too and you admitted that you were a bit distracted by the idea I could be "powerwolfing" it kinda hit me that a bit of your play here was even more towny than your usual play is.

It's like an ongoing struggle keeping paranoia in check in mafia games. It's something I'm kinda slowly getting better at myself. But I think the best piece of advice I can give is if someone reaches out to you, respond assuming/pretending that they're town - there's a >50% chance that assumption is correct. And if it isn't, you're a lot more likely to catch onto something feeling wrong.

If they are town and they're just looking for someone to work with you can end up with some really positive vibes (like the you+Urist+me moment we had). If they are scum who's looking to get something out of you, it often feels quite... slimy if that makes sense. Like keep an eye out for some kind of ~~agenda~~ in someone's reach-out but don't always assume there is an agenda. Ultimately tho if someone reaches out to you and you reach back and there's just no connection/chemistry, it's pretty safe to resort back to your earlier read.

I say this as someone who values real time interactions very highly as town. I think they're very hard to fake with a level of integrity when you're scum. But for what it's worth, after the talk with you and Urist that night I didn't really see myself lynching you.

I hope this makes some kinda sense. It's a bit abstract but if I'm reading the changes of your playstyle correctly I think/hope this might resonate a little.

PvtUrist

It was a pleasure to meet you dude, you're a really cool guy. :> similar to URAP2 I really vibe your positive energy and hope you stick around and play lots more. The road block you will run into (everyone does) is that niceness is often misread for scum pocketing. It should not be but it is. I think it's a cruddy habit which all of us fall into at some point or another.

I also get nostalgic a lot and like to impart words of wisdom which people have imparted on me too so BE READY: there's no harm in being a little bit more confident in your reads. The pace of day one was fairly breakneck but I think if you'd been the one who'd come out and admitted you were worried I was tEh ScUm GoD before Vork we would have had a pretty solid 3p townblock from that exchange.

Also it's OK to voice your own opinions & ask questions at the same time. If people just respond with unabashed lip service that's either +scum equity or someone thinking like you. but it's another piece of shiny shiny information which can help you get into that person's head.

I think the main reason I started to worry you were scum at the end was because of the fact you were a bit hesitant early on. Like there was a tinfoil world in my head where you were hedging through day one until other people contributed and then strategically borrowing their more nuanced thoughts if that makes sense. But I was also leaning town on both scum at this point so y'know
(╥﹏╥)
I had to incorrectly scumread SOMEONE.......

[the worst]

also quickly

@Cheeky, your replace in was radiant. I was very very slightly worried you might be a TPR so threw late day shade at you in case people thought we might keep pushing each other. When you told me my sr on you was shite I agreed & realised you were a VT. but huge welcome back. you're a player i admire quite a lot and I think you were a great influence on this game.

@pintu you are as smooth as a Chilean pinot noir.... never trusting you again

@the worst dude you're meant to scumread scum and townread town what game are you playing?! if this isn't evidence to the notion that ICs aren't explicitly good players idk what is

[the worst]

Schadd..... I tried to lynch your TPR as town on d1 again.... thoughts?.......

[the worst]

thank you to penguinpower for quickly catching the problem with my endgame ! !! that could have been a huge problem !!!!

LOL I thought you were just trolling.

I townread this reaction so much

[the worst]

Schadd..... I tried to lynch your TPR as town on d1 again.... thoughts?.......

i thought you were pushing townsfolk pretty indiscriminately d1

Hmm good point he was collateral damage

[the worst]

jeez what are the odds dude

less than six percent
!!!!!!!!!

tw am i reading right that you're modding the next road to rome game? I'm gonna play that if so sounds fun

I will be! (pressure is on!) Definitely sign up.

[the worst]

yes absolutely, you'd be welcome to do that via pm or even in a pt if that would be more beneficial! there's lots of great players in the SE/IC slots coming up. should be a hype list.

[the worst]

he did troll me tho in response i loved it

newbie 1905: night 2 result
Sent: Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:39 pm
From: schadd_
To: u r a person 2

pinturicchio is

ooh sorry gimme a sec they have veggie pizza at the dining hall

hahahaha
schadd_ is like my #1 favourite mod of all time on MafiaScum : ]

[the worst]

Surprised you didn't just shoot him and countercrumb neap/doc beautiful : / I'd be curious to see how this game would've gone if we had normal!pintu actually. I think your surgery recovery spins your play a little (not a bad thing obviously just interesting)