Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[the worst]

Also like Xtoxm is such an unlikely townread for Creature to call before the wagon fully dissipated. Just noticed this

[the worst]

I guess it makes sense from a technical POV if they're s/s but that doesn't feel like creature's style either

[the worst]

I'm not having an easy time reading Mewtaph so far (but he's just put of catchup mode so maybe that's normal idk)

There's a keyser shaped hole in my soul....... I don't really want to lynch there d1 tbh

Lerf/AlmostNancy/Nauci I think you need to scumcase Xtoxm or move your votes

[the worst]

I think they're t/t atm anyway

[the worst]

Lerf/AlmostNancy/Nauci I think you need to scumcase Xtoxm or move your votes

I don't understand this request

Xtoxm and mew are the two players I have scum cased while waiting for Keyser and saudade-slot to make content

Where are you lynching today when you just eliminated all of the current people wagons and have your vote on a basically empty just replaced in slot!?!

Like you're not showing signs of scum worst but this almost feels like classic scum signs to not be able to scum case anybody O_o

And I don't understand how you're so sure xtoxm is town that you'd sooner go after varsoon!?!

Hold on I think I might be forgetting posts of yours. I tried but I think I phased out of this game for a day or so, I'll go check your Xtoxm case

I'm actually struggling to work out where the hell to nuke today but I do think Sausage townreading me then ignoring my attempts to reach out and repping out is >>rand scum

And yeah I have more reservations on Harpoon than I do on Xtoxm at the moment, what's your issue with that?

[the worst]

So are we saying the tone/over-confidence/sheep reads/self-voting are all outside Creature's scum game?

Someone needs to convince me here.

viewtopic.php?t=76709&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

Feast your eyes
Creature's best scum iso, don't read the whole thing if you don't want but just have a squizz

[the worst]

Lerf/AlmostNancy/Nauci I think you need to scumcase Xtoxm or move your votes

I don't understand this request

Xtoxm and mew are the two players I have scum cased while waiting for Keyser and saudade-slot to make content

Where are you lynching today when you just eliminated all of the current people wagons and have your vote on a basically empty just replaced in slot!?!

Like you're not showing signs of scum worst but this almost feels like classic scum signs to not be able to scum case anybody O_o

And I don't understand how you're so sure xtoxm is town that you'd sooner go after varsoon!?!

Hold on I think I might be forgetting posts of yours. I tried but I think I phased out of this game for a day or so, I'll go check your Xtoxm case

I'm actually struggling to work out where the hell to nuke today but I do think Sausage townreading me then ignoring my attempts to reach out and repping out is >>rand scum

And yeah I have more reservations on Harpoon than I do on Xtoxm at the moment, what's your issue with that?

for the record my vote on Sausage's slot stepped from intent to pressure more than bloodthirsty confidence its a scumslot but I think there's scumtells there and no towntells and I don't like the way you're shading me for keeping my vote there one bit.

[the worst]

the worst, you around for a bit?

Hit and miss - need to keep working & it's my last day in Adelaide.

I'll try to pop in as much as I can tho, the closeness of the deadline kinda bit me on the butt

[the worst]

So are we saying the tone/over-confidence/sheep reads/self-voting are all outside Creature's scum game?

Someone needs to convince me here.

viewtopic.php?t=76709&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

Feast your eyes
Creature's best scum iso, don't read the whole thing if you don't want but just have a squizz

I don't know what I'm supposed to be seeing here. Bulletpoints would be helpful.

I would categorize their play as conventionally hard to read. I didn't understand the early town reads on him this game, and didn't like him opening up to the possibility of me being scum with no unique/progressive take on his own. I felt I was the go to wagon. I smelled opportunism.

Yeah okay that's not the worst. The first time I saw creature he was scum twice in a row, our third game together he was town and I was blown over by the depth of differences between his games. That has closed in a bit now but a lot of tells still apply

look for the way he forms townreads there (you're lacking context but hopefully it explains a little?) and the way he hops from wagon to wagon like he's testing what will work, and his tone is substantially more frozen

if you think he's scum here I probably want to be countercased before I'll consider it because I feel faaaairly good about that read

[the worst]

Do we have time to pressure wagon me?

Preferably today because tomorrow I'll be busy again

like even this feels kinda townie to me; i dont'think scum!him asks to be a pressure wagon (or that it should happen while he *will* be able around, as opposed to just not mentioning that he'd be busy tomorrow)

I think I'd disagree w this for most people other than creature but I think it's within his burned out townrange and I like this observation a lot

[the worst]

I think there's a lot of those little creatures quirks in his ISO which doesn't come from scum!Creature and most importantly very rarely from groupscum!Creature

[the worst]

the worst, who is in your lynch pool?

I feel like its probably {NM, Mewtaph, Kokichi}
there's a few slots I don't feel all that good about but don't want lynched D1.. :/

[the worst]

I guess I'd like some Nauci goodness before EoD but I think she's the worst d1 lynch within my PoE

[the worst]

ATTACK OF THE P-EDITS
guys I'm loving this

[the worst]

I guess I'd like some Nauci goodness before EoD but I think she's the worst d1 lynch within my PoE

i don't really want to like lynch her today or anything but she just doesn't feel townie to me at all rn

Yeah this is exactly how I feel rn

[the worst]

I'm never lynching Nauci, so unless you think I'm that wrong about a townread (which has literally never been the case), don't lynch her.

This is very much why I omitted her from my d1 lynchpool (plus a few other townreads on her and the fact I'm worried I'm having Nauci-post-amnesia which I don't have capacity to check rn)

[the worst]

I'm just gonna come out and say it because the more I think about this the more silly it feels: Shoshin how sure are you feeling about Varsoon being town? his early blowup at you felt like a caricature of his ragetowngame which I'm pretty sure he could emulate as scum, and it seems like a really intuitive way to pocket you and work his way into the townblock.

[the worst]

I still think Varsoon's town.

Do you think the ragespam he exhibited is outside of his scumrange or is it his later posting?

[the worst]

Varsoon dude where are you going with this

[the worst]

I guess I'd like some Nauci goodness before EoD but I think she's the worst d1 lynch within my PoE

i don't really want to like lynch her today or anything but she just doesn't feel townie to me at all rn

Yeah this is exactly how I feel rn

Reading on: There is a chance of scum-Nauci laughing at my Relly-Nauci scum team theory and then adoring/defending/pocketing town-Relly here, correct?

Does this speak: tin foil, unsupported BS or mid-rep notions to you?

This speaks tinfoil to me but in a 'I had the same paranoid moment' kind of way

[the worst]

Varsoon what the fuck are you trying to do?

[the worst]

If any of my top townreads (Irrelpehant, the worst, or Nauci) strongly townread any of the playeres in my poe (Kokichi, Xtom, Performer, Key, Not_Mafia, Mew, Skitter, Mitillos), then I'd remove them from the poe. I think if we work collectively, we should be able to narrow this down for a very high probability lynch.

Never lynch Xtoxm or skitter today, imo. Unless I'm being really stupid I think both of them are fairly likely town and on a towntelling trajectory.

Xtoxm's opening was pretty weak but I think it checks out as disengaged town a fair way before scum. If you have more solid meta on him feel free to swing in here, and I definitely don't intend to let him have an easy time. But at the same time I can't see myself supporting this d1.

I think the way skitter popped in earlier today is pretty town indicative (and she's done a few things earlier in this phase which have already made me stop and wonder whether she's outside of her scumrange). She's Bloody Good Scum so this is another one I'm being careful as hell with but lynching skitter d1 should be illegal

[the worst]

Varsoon what the fuck are you trying to do?

Why are you voting my predecessor. Did they do bad things?

You betcha.
He tried to pocket me, then ignored me trying to reach out to him.

Very bad things indeed. :/

[the worst]

I love the idea of pressuring Kokichi but I don't think he was ever going to reply tellingly to you faking a guilty then quizzing him about the scum pt?

[the worst]

I'm just gonna come out and say it because the more I think about this the more silly it feels: Shoshin how sure are you feeling about Varsoon being town? his early blowup at you felt like a caricature of his ragetowngame which I'm pretty sure he could emulate as scum, and it seems like a really intuitive way to pocket you and work his way into the townblock.

It's all of the posts he has done outside of the shoshinteractions that have him in my town pile

Despite the angry reaction he was still managing to output well thought out game analysis pretty frequently

This is valid (Shoshin's repsonss too)
I lay down my tinfoil hat

[the worst]

Mitillos should be removed from the d1 PoE as well yeah

[the worst]

The fake guilty thing gave me a tiny ping back to a dayvig I faked as scum once tbh

[the worst]

Sorry, I need to jump back into your ISO asap because I'm clearly misremembering some stuff. Can you quote your NM scumcase?

[the worst]

yeah, unfortunately bored town NM gets prods as well
hold on I'll go reread him, I'm pretty indifferent towards lynching there and I think I liked something he said

[the worst]

Varsoon what the fuck are you trying to do?

Why are you voting my predecessor. Did they do bad things?

You betcha.
He tried to pocket me, then ignored me trying to reach out to him.

Very bad things indeed. :/

the worst is town this game
what a relief

Is this is what kids are calling a “pocket” these days?

I guess most of the playerlist must be scum in that case.

can't help the cheekiness

[the worst]

I literally can't remember why I liked nm. Hard to keep up with 15 slots

[the worst]

NM reads self conscious and awkward to you when he's scum? that's weird, he plays it safe but I don't think he's all that restrained tonally as scum

[the worst]

Yeah the list in this game is like, better than I thought was practically possible rn. <3 glad it's been so spicy and engaging so far.

[the worst]

I think we should be talking with you more tomorrow Creature but the idea of pressurewagoning you this close to EoD when the competing wagons don't have all that many votes on them kinda stresses me out

vote elsewhere?

[the worst]

That is a very good post and makes me feel a little bad. I'll do an applied reread but I wonder if I've been focusing on paranoiareading Nauci and kinda unconsciously waiting for HYPER WALLPOST GOD TOWN Nauci to appear and show me the way

[the worst]

VOTE: Mewtaph

[the worst]

Eh that vote works from you as either alignment I just think you've triggered my policy lust for holding your vote then voting over the ellitell

I'll think about this when sober

[the worst]

Xtoxm has been recently active on site but chose not to post here.
VOTE: Xtoxm

VOTE: Mewtaph

???

Why the naked vote on Mewtaph?

He's comfortably in my PoE I just think I'm slightly triggered by people who don't enjoy playing mafia/aren't good at it using generally sweeping meta bullshit as reasons to think people are scum.

Don't think Mewtaph fits in this category and I have a good impression of his towngame so he's probably just a wolf for it

[the worst]

Like Xtoxm and Harpoon have both spoken about their issues with the early townreadspam and I think Xtoxm came out of it townier, Mewt opens up by asking Xtoxm to talk about what reads he disagreed with then....... never reassesses his read and votes him over the ellitell? when Xtoxm has contributed more than he has? And he hasn't placed a vote all game?

If this isn't coasting wolf trying to flail at a mislynch IDK what is

[the worst]

But I'm also wary of the fact I'm fucking easily triggered by people using bullshit holistic meta tells so I might be seeing red

[the worst]

Tell me why he's scum without referring to out of thread activity.

I'm having issues you've posted broad circular reads which are pretty much what's ITT and haven't been able to reach any interesting takes and your first vote is on Xtoxm for an ellitell?

as far as I can tell your only scumread is on Xtoxm for out of game reasons? you read frozen af and pushing on angleshooting isn't making you look any townier.

[the worst]

ellitell

A wot

Ellibereth said if someone's posting in every game but one consistently they're probably scum in said game

it's true sometimes. it's probably not a read Elli uses reliably because he's actually good at mafia but people who don't like reading ingame content seem to use shit like this a lot to angleshoot scumreads

Additionally, he (Xtoxm) never actually engaged with me about "townreadspam" and my questions and just continued to shade giving out townreads which I think is bullshit because if a player deserves a townread, they deserve a fucking townread. Way to stay flat-line zero content outside of somewhat towny tone while preventing mutual town trust from forming. I'll kick this with a vote any day of the week and advocate for lynch if they continue to do nothing.

Read his ISO and report back
If you think he's a wolf tell me why

[the worst]

Tell me why he's scum without referring to out of thread activity.

I'm having issues you've posted broad circular reads which are pretty much what's ITT and haven't been able to reach any interesting takes and your first vote is on Xtoxm for an ellitell?

as far as I can tell your only scumread is on Xtoxm for out of game reasons? you read frozen af and pushing on angleshooting isn't making you look any townier.

Did you forget where I mentioned that A50 did the exact same thing in CofH? You can object to his reasoning but I don’t see how it makes him scum here?

using the ellitell in general doesn't make someone lockscum. I scumread a50 for different reasons in CoH. if Mewt was pushing anything except the Ellitell and generic reads maybe I wouldn't think who was a wolf.

[the worst]

Xtoxm's posts are completely devoid of any kind of scum hunting so far. Throwing shade towards Shoshin and "throwing around town reads" doesn't count. His lack of voting and pandering to those that town read him also signals to me he is trying to see if his shade catches on, before leaving the thread and letting misdirected townies do his dirty work of steering the lynch away from him.

Quote things from his recent ISO that makes you feel this way. I think there's been evidence of reevaluation of his read on Shoshin and I think most of his posting besides the early stuff has been good.

Onus is on you to prove he's a good lynch (and have an actual read, not broad sweeping and disputable statements)

[the worst]

I'm a bit tilted and fairly drunk so I'm going to go to bed soon. Do this thing though please

[the worst]

Yes and you were wrong about A50, are you forgetting that part?

No?
Ergo using the ellitell makes someone locktown?

what are you getting at? I don't think Mewtaph is town anyway, his tacky way of coasting has just pissed me off tonight to boot. If he is town it's up to him to start fucking playing the game so we can read him correctly, his contributions have been shit.

[the worst]

Yeah, and that “re-evaluation” came right after he got called out on trying to shade her by lifting her quote from the signup thread and making it seem like it was taken from THIS game.

What does this have to do with Xtoxm's alignment? As I remember this was part of the ridiculous shitfight about the integrity of Shoshin's game?

How have I not played the game?

Quote things from his recent ISO that makes you feel this way. I think there's been evidence of reevaluation of his read on Shoshin and I think most of his posting besides the early stuff has been good.

Onus is on you to prove he's a good lynch (and have an actual read, not broad sweeping and disputable statements)

[the worst]

Yes and you were wrong about A50, are you forgetting that part?

No?
Ergo using the ellitell makes someone locktown?

what are you getting at? I don't think Mewtaph is town anyway, his tacky way of coasting has just pissed me off tonight to boot. If he is town it's up to him to start fucking playing the game so we can read him correctly, his contributions have been shit.

But why don’t you debunk his arguments then? You haven’t addressed them yet.

What am I meant to debunk? He hasn't said anything that consistutes an interesting take or anything that's worth debunking I don't think? His first stance that's interested me is his vote on Xtoxm so I've asked him to explain it and said I think it comes from a wolf so he's ridiculing me

[the worst]

Do you want me to towncase Xtoxm? What are you asking for? This is the reason I don't want to engage with you this phase, it feels like a whole lot of your questions are just misinterpreting what I'm doing and asking me pointed questions about my intention and what I'm angling at etc. etc. when I haven't really had a chance to work my magic.

If I could have had a fucking conversation with Mewtaph without you butting in and asking all these questions we might have gotten somewhere and I might be less annoyed. Hutbi bet this meta abusing scumfuck is just going to keep coasting and assume he has no reason to respond to my request anyway

[the worst]

Yeah, and that “re-evaluation” came right after he got called out on trying to shade her by lifting her quote from the signup thread and making it seem like it was taken from THIS game.

What does this have to do with Xtoxm's alignment? As I remember this was part of the ridiculous shitfight about the integrity of Shoshin's game?

How have I not played the game?

Quote things from his recent ISO that makes you feel this way. I think there's been evidence of reevaluation of his read on Shoshin and I think most of his posting besides the early stuff has been good.

Onus is on you to prove he's a good lynch (and have an actual read, not broad sweeping and disputable statements)

Because it was freaking shady to lift a quote outside of the game and use it to shade her IN THIS GAME by making it look, like that quote was taken FROM THIS GAME!

The conversation was whether or not Shoshin is boasty and whether or not she has a strong towngame? like what's the deal? what's the problem with quoting her out of thread if the conversation is about her personality/pkaystyle and not explicitly game related?

[the worst]

if anything he did was shady it was suggesting Shoshin was scum via bop for scumreading him earlier in the game and I don't feel like people have even talked about that

the path you're chasing him down is not a path that leads to flipping scum dude

[the worst]

I don't really get why you're making this more hectic than it needs to though? He's been posting elsewhere on site but has opted not to post here. Maybe this is the wrong way to "kick" him into doing something considering the tone of his slot, but he hasn't done enough for me not to put my vote there.

How have I not played the game?

This is always ridiculing. I think I was really transparent about what I wanted from Mewtaph, but he ignores me and refers to a version of Xtoxm which existed hundreds of posts ago in a different gamestate

because he's trying to sort Xtoxm and paying attention to his recent posts? maybe. that's what I want him to show me.

because he thought Xtoxm was mislynchable so decided to push it? maybe. that's what I want to see.

[the worst]

Fucking whatever. I can't fucking reaction test some dude who's posted unexciting bullshit since replacing in because you're absolutely intent on drowning me in pointless questions and derailing everything I try to do. I don't know why the fuck I try.

If I wake up still salty I'm going to ignore this thread categorically until I'm in Vietnam. Mewtaph maybe you'd better vote me for that.

[the worst]

Sorry. I've been busy and I'm highly strung. I think you're awesome but this is part of why I'm not having an easy time working out your alignment. Your direction feels all over the place, like a lot of this stuff you're asking is never alignment indicative and accomplishes virtually nothing. and A50 isn't doing all that much so far.

it's just frustrating


pedit:

if anything he did was shady it was suggesting Shoshin was scum via bop for scumreading him earlier in the game and I don't feel like people have even talked about that

the path you're chasing him down is not a path that leads to flipping scum dude

To me, making a quote from a different thread appear like it was taken from this game is really sketchy. I have no idea what he is going to flip but it’s one of the sketchiest things I’ve seen anyone in the game do so far. And you can mischariterize my read all you like but it pinged tf out of me.

he didn't imply it was from this thread tho? and like why would he even do that as scum to try and win a pissing contest?

[the worst]

Do you want me to towncase Xtoxm?

I do

After Mewtaph has a go scumcasing him I'll consider it

[the worst]

since no one is seeing what I'm seeing:
Mewtaph has asked Xtoxm the same question a lot of us have already asked him (which townreads gave him pause)

I think he's already answered that question really well, and I think his answer was town indicative. Mewtaph has ignored his reads and later contribution and comments about playstyle anxiety leading him to freak out about the early townreads. Follow his reads and it's probably pretty clear that he had his own takes, but the Big Bad Townblock was too much for him to like.

Mewtaph thinks he's a mislynch / has not noticed that Xtoxm's initial freak-out about the townreadspam actually kinda checks out, so shades him for not responding and votes him over ellitell

I ask Mewtaph to back the ellitell up with an actual scumcase. He cites the very early part of Xtoxm's contributions. I ask him to go back to his later iso and show me which of Xtoxm's posts are making him still feel that way

Nancy randomly charge-tackles me to the ground and Mewtaph stands there watching us and acting all surprised that I asked him to back up this read.

Like idfk he hasn't warlocked Nancy, she did it of her own volition but I'm fucking done if I'm being shaded for asking someone who's done sweet fuck all to back up a horseshit holistic meta tell with an actual scumcase on a slot I'm townreading

[the worst]

Ah, is this back to shading me, for pointing out fucking common sense?

No quite the opposite, I'm bold face taking this at face value and assuming you're town:

Why does scum!Xtoxm quote an out of thread post to win a pissing contest more than town!Xtoxm does?

Do you think he actually intended to present it as in-game material? (I don't) if you do, why does that actually matter for his alignment?

write out the 'fake = scum' argument ofc

[the worst]

However, you shouldn’t ever be seriously considering scumreading me or anyone else for refusing to go easy on you, just because I happen to like you so much. Quite the contrary in fact, I would assume.

I’ll accept your mea culpa and try not to be annoying or smug about it.

Yeah agreed totally. There's a cluster of players - {you, Shoshin, skitter, Nauci, Irrelephant, Keyser} - more centrally who I would be outright scumreading if you didn't engage with me meaningfully. Actually now I'm thinking about it that's a pretty noted difference between out t/t games and Heroes Wanted, you had a really hard time interacting with me there.

On the flipside sometimes it does help to give people a bit of agency. I was kinda hoping to scare the crap out of Mewtaph there and I don't think it had the desired effect.

[the worst]

I'm gonna turn in... I'm sorry if I was offensive Nancy or Mewtaph.
I never intend to outright hurt feelings, and I hope my last few posts especially speak for where my mind's at.

[the worst]

Eh if I'm giving off the aura that I don't respect you this game it might be better it I do take a break. If anything I respect you too much to feign confidence when I'm not ready yet. Sorry if it's giving you bad juju.

I know you use your own reasoning to attack scum and I've seen it be both effective and ineffective. Doesn't matter, none of us are right 100% of the time (I think my reads are probably slightly below random) so I'm really comfortable working with you but like in turn, I'm gonna challenge you if I feel like you're on a wrong track or I don't see what you're getting at.

Incidentally yeah the post you've just thrown down tells me you saw the same alarm bell I saw in Xtoxm's posting (the bop thing). It's fine, I'm not going to go into this until after Mewtaph has spoken, like at all. but I definitely see what you're getting at. I just don't think the out of thread origin of that quote actually matters all that much

[the worst]

You and Nauci are two people I really want to reengage with about Xtoxm after I talk with Mewtaph. I think sorting him is a lot more valuable than going through it in detail rn though

[the worst]

It's a combination of 1 & 2!! Per the #3 metric I'm certain I'm an anchor so I really wouldn't opt to call attention to that.

it started while I was drunkposting as ElderitchAbomination in mastina's worst game ever run and I could not get predictive text to spell your name correctly to save myself, I do actually go to type Varsoon these days but if it auto-correct wrongly I'm just leaving it

If you really hate it I'll stop, but it's a cute/endeared memory to me

[the worst]

You and Nauci are two people I really want to reengage with about Xtoxm after I talk with Mewtaph. I think sorting him is a lot more valuable than going through it in detail rn though

You’re open to criticically seeing our perspective on him, I hope? I dunno, I’m not really seeing how Mewtaph is scum here.

I’m also a bit concerned that Kokichi hasn’t commented on anyone’s alignment yet but maybe it’s because he literally hasn’t read anything in the game so far. He seems townie so far but if he doesn’t give any reads soon, I may be a little worried.

Yeah, Kokichi completely slipped away from my focus.. I think I want to see more from him before EoD but I want to see more from Mewtaph sooner tbh.

I'm always happy to listen to other opinions yeah. I'll take an open mind to Xtoxm especially, it's a read that's growing on me but it's pretty fresh and I thought he was a wolf at first as well

[the worst]

naw its all g I was just curious
<3

<3

[the worst]

I'm not sure how to feel about this olive branch rn.. in the air in 12 hours so I'd probably better get some sleep. I'd appreciate it if you could open up your brain on what you're directly reading yourself (a lot of the stuff there doesn't feel like you're really backing yourself or letting your hands get dirty if that makes sense?)

[the worst]

VOTE: Performer

hi NM

[the worst]

I'm starting to reconsider NM, I'm actually a lot worse at reading him than I thought

[the worst]

I'm not sure I'll catch up this morn but I'm at the airport for another coupla hours. Anyone wanna hang out?

[the worst]

Idk about flavour speccing
I'm a little anxious about TPRs claiming tho, can explain if I'm here for massclaim

[the worst]

what would rel even be lying about and why would flavour research prove or disprove it...

[the worst]

idgi I'm checking out

seeya all in Singapore

[the worst]

Hello hello

[the worst]

I'll fight the Xtoxm wagon

[the worst]

I'll fight the Xtoxm wagon

i mean the first time around it was built

ah yeah the free flow of its formation is part of why I don't like it

[the worst]

Kokichi you're reminding me of that time I vigged you

You're doing nothing at all but seem to act like you shouldn't be lynched - why not?

[the worst]

VOTE: Irrelephant11

the fuck

[the worst]

tbh

I like this post. I disagree with quite a lot of the content but I think it comes from town.

[the worst]

any of the higher sr I have like nm/tw/creat/koki/shos , I intend to hammer.

How are you scumreading either myself or Shoshin?

[the worst]

Spoiler: For Irrelephant's Eyes Only!

Skim Open 732 and tell me if you see what I see?

I READ THE SPOILER I'M A BAD PERSON...... I have onions

[the worst]

besides the fact he's scum, why?

[the worst]

Performer
Not_Mafia
Maybe Mewtaph
Huh who else?

Having had the advantage of just catching up on the last 10 pages I have a hunch

I actually thought deadline was a couple of days shorter but we should torture Creature into producing more content on d2 >:)

[the worst]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[the worst]

I’d lunch any of NM/Kokichi/Mewtaph over Performer
I’d lunch any of them

I'm probably about here but very much pending Performed fessing up why he threw Shoshin and I in his scumpile.

[the worst]

Am I the only one scumreading creature??

No. Talk through it and talk through why you think Shoshin or I are scum right now.

[the worst]

wrt Koki the energy is reminding me of this game
viewtopic.php?t=75989&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

ruby red correctly identified him as scum, he was wagoned and basically derailed it through this like appeal to audacity type "I'm never correctly lynched as scum, only mislynched" and here he has that same kind of deflective energy like he feels entitled to not be lynched but.. yeah skitter said it, I'm not sure where this is coming from

[the worst]

the main tell I've used in the past on NM that has worked sometimes is that if he's pushing scumreads who you can see as wolves with a trajectory/what feels like some kind of accuracy he's probably town (his d1 reads are actually usually pretty good)

If he's pushing bullshit he's probably scum.

Tbf I've misread him by this metric as many times as I've read him correctly lately but he looks like his wolfgame rn

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Hes never this active as scum

You were in heroes wanted fam
I agree he's towny here but please go one level deeper

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No? Sometimes? He trolls as either alignment so I haven't really seen a pattern there

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If we don't have at least one scum in the general PoE we're a pretty disappointing bunch... I'm actually feeling decdnt about the state of things rn :/

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I've seen him as scum once it was on another site. He tried more than he has here.

Spoiler: this is not a reliable scumtell on NM
roughly half the time he tryhards he's town (esp. if he has a read he's interested in)

I get the feeling he just tryhard if he's interested in the game otherwise he lurks

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{tw}
{Shoshin, Irrelephant}
{skitter, Nauci}
{Xtoxm, Creature, Mitillos}
{Performer, Keyser, Varsoon, AlmostNancy}
{Mewtaph}
{Kokichi, NM}

Ish

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sometimes I feel like I've seen NM like every month since I was born

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top 2 tiers I don't think I'm wrong on full stohp
next tier I'm starting to get strong energy I'm right on

next tiers FFA

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I'd appreciate if you talked to me about what's pinging you rather than a blanket "you're pinging me" comment :/

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I'm so confused

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{Harpoon, Nancy} could be another tier above Perf and Keys but otherwise I'm pretty okay with that list? It was sloppy but it's pretty much where I'm at

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I remember that game really well too but Nauci has confuzzled me

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I’m seriously starting to wonder if you’re skipping my posts or something.

Why do you think this?

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after everyone died it was like just pages of me talking to myself

I've been using tells from that pt for our last few games tbh which is part of why I'm curious what Nauci's angling at

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I can't engage with you on every single post Nancy
This is why I called v/la, I'm sinking my time into real-time because I find it more effective

dobyou want to talk me through why you think I'm wrong on Saudade and Kokichi because this is reminding me of scum!Kokichi in that one game a lot and I think Saudade was wolfy. :/

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Definitely possible yeah. Throw me a link to YGM?

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That'll be late December and I'd be pretty surprised if we're both still alive then but when there's less stuff to focus on I think I'm going to be able to sort you better

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I don't think me being NK'd can be worked into a segue to push you if you're town though, imo it's probably more powerful for both of us to sort other slots than sort each other.

Koki is a good choice and I'll have a look at the towngame you mentioned. I need him active here tho

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to stay active here** keep spewing content so I can read u<33

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@Nauci, skitter has the kind of wide scumrange where if you look skeptically you can always come out with reasons to scumread her. if you focus on the weak points she identified within that pt and also compare timestamps to her ingame ISO I think you can come out with some really interesting tells

(sorry this is so much work..... I decided to be arrogant about reading skitter correctly after seeing her double wolf run in open 732/GSGDM first hand so far I've got her right each time)


@Nancy I'm not into flaking and tend to be a bad hydra buddy. I'll consider it if it gets bad but I still think I'm playing quite strongly relatively to a lot of like.. other players.. if I rep out I think there's a >rand chance my replacement would a less capable player than the play I'm exhibiting in this game. I'm just not as capable as I usually am due to time restraints (plus large game size).

I'll actually be a little upset if you think I'm being distinctly weak in a general sense and the gamestate would be bettered by me leaving but it's fair feedback so I'll take it.

also I don't want to hydra this game, hydraing takes MORE time

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sorry if that sounds arrogant but I actually feel reasonably good about myself and my reads right now. I'm happy to do some more Kokichi homework if you want to show me what here looks more like his towngame

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I like the fact Nauci spewed her conspiracy theory this early tbh and I'm pretty comfortable with her and skitter sharing a tier rn.

the paranoia is very relatable and like because Certain Things I definitely understand reading skitter accurately is like a combination of an abstract artform and a statistical analysis

Ngl I can read Nauci's scumcase and be like "oh. yeah I felt this too." but also confidently say that I think skitter is a lot more likely to be town than scum.

I'm drunkposting to the max and not sure if I still make sense

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Ngl I can read Nauci's scumcase and be like "oh. yeah I felt this too." but also confidently say that I think skitter is a lot more likely to be town than scum.

Shit I wrote the damn thing and I and think this

I want to group hug you two and this sounds like buddying because ilu both

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intent to marry entire playlist

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intent to marry entire playlist

@Nauci I had already read that entire scumchat to be able to read Skitter better in another game. Nothing was new to me, and I’m not townreading Skitter for any of her easily fakeable reasons, so nothing stood out to me there either. The fact she hasn’t pushed many players makes sense to me; I don’t have many scumreads either. The way she’s handling the AlmostNancy slot feels especially town for her. I forget what my third reason was, but it wasn’t something I thought Skitter had the foresight to fake

^^^^^^^
also the way in this game it's almost like you can feel like you're totally comfortable with realtime interactions with someone then
BOOM skitter echoing your reaction/first impressions
and in spite of very nuanced reads as scum, and ability to smell two steps ahead of the gamestate and slip herself in there intuitively, I think that's something scum!skitter struggles a lot with

this is a towntell for her like almost every time I'm pretty sure

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I think you need to think harder, cos I'm town

Where the fuck then

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I think we're overthinking this.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

The game state was so weird I felt like I needed to start exploring zanier ideas

I have this feeling like regardless of who the d1 flip is if it's town I'm gonna yell FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK regardless and this resonates deeply

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VOTE: Mewtaph
sup

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VOTE: Mewtaph
sup

We're on the clock buddeh, vote NM with us

But flashwagons

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VOTE: Mewtaph
sup

We're on the clock buddeh, vote NM with us

I think NM is probably a mislynch.

I'm not all that confident but I actually can believe he opened the game saw that post and was like "ick" and that's the towniest thing in his ISO

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Nancy why aren't you voting?

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Nancy why aren't you voting?

???

I did.

You really are skipping my posts.

Oh I went by the last vc sorry
who are you voting for?

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this flashwagon isn't really all that flashy...comp is excellent tho

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I'm about the same. I think NM is marginally more likely town than Mewtaph but I don't like townread either of them and will switch at EoD if needed

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Just caught up rq and I think Mewt is still the best lynch here. I'm not sure that him and Kokichi read as SvS tbh but given the tightness of the PoE I'm not all that against the lynch just because I don't townread Kokichi

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VOTE: Not_Mafia
Got kick back for posting the way I do.
Got kick back for pushing Xtoxm.
Got kick back for pushing Creature.

Honestly, whatever.

???

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Open question, is it typical for Nancy to change their read entirely on someone over one post?

Yes.

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Work with me on these wagons?
How do you feel about a NM lynch?

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VOTE: Not_Mafia
ftr I'm a little irritated at the way people have floated around the Mewtaph wagon

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Who exactly is your PoE lovely?

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null and nulltown..? o_O who do you want lynched today? or like if this was kingmaker who would you kill?

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Didn't you just say Mit is nullish green and NM is null tho?

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Could you throw me a full readlist real quick?

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Yeah okay. I'm a bit confused why your PoE is players you just said ard null/nulltown?

- skitter is town I'm pretty sure but that's a fairly hot take and I don't think I can speak passionately against her scumrange so much as I don't think this looks like her scumgame.
- Mit I'm also still thinking is more likely town than not but I feel like the intense sorting energy at the sod1 has kinda dwindled a little bit -- I'm pretty comfortable holding off and seeing how he progresses when he's less busy but it's hard to remain strongly townreading him
- I think my stance on Mewt is kinda obvious

anything wrt them you want to talk about?

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The fuck

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That's what's doing my head in about NM's townflip. Like he genuinely cared about those reads but I haven't seen him tunnelled on me as scum d1 like that (and I'm also coming around on Varsoon being town)...especially like over one post? When he first said it I was like "hey maybe this is town!NM" but when he refused to elaborate or reconsider anything I assumed he just randomly picked us.

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yeah tell me about it

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viewtopic.php?t=75184&f=54&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

The way he randomly tunnelled someone who is pretty clearly town reminded me of his Mathdino tunnel this time we played together by end of day. He's definitely trolled this way as scum before.

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So, Shoshin/tw/Varsoon, possible scumteam?

This almost always has at least two town in it Nancy. Please be reasonable. NM wasn't night killed out of fear of his reads. He was lynched because he looked like a scumfuck and >half the list agreed.

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I'm actually not so sure on scum!Nancy right now. The townread on NM had a lot of conviction and I'd be kind of surprised if she opened d2 as scum by trying to push both of us via dead town's reads as opposed to just trying to pocket us and go with the flow.

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Shoshin is basically never scum here but I'm also starting to think I should probably be townreading Nancy as well.

VOTE: Performer
guessing we can't lynch Kokichi?

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Shoshin is basically never scum here but I'm also starting to think I should probably be townreading Nancy as well.

Why is she town?

More that this start to day two doesn't read like scum!her. She's a lot less aggressive and more pockety--i get that shooting Rel then tunnelling {you, me, Varsoon} is a good way to break up the PoE but I'm pretty sure Nancy realises as scum that she doesn't have the towncred to actually successfully pull it off. The way she's fighting you here is also pretty full of conviction (which she can fake to an extent but I don't think she sounds this good as scum unless she's on her A++ game).

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Shoshin is basically never scum here but I'm also starting to think I should probably be townreading Nancy as well.

VOTE: Performer
guessing we can't lynch Kokichi?

Why Performer over Mew?

I Mew to check in wrt the odd night vig call first.

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Heroes Wanted

Even in Heroes Wanted I don't feel like she made any plays as ballsy as this? But I see what you mean about the trajectory of her scumgame. Let me work on this a little longer.

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I can read town!theworst. And I honestly don’t think this is him.

my styles across our 3 games together have all been substantially different and we were TvS in one of them. I thought you had me in your scum PoE by the end of Necromancer btw? I might be projecting Anka's PoE.

Anyway I'd be curious to see why you don't think I'm town here. I think this is the most obvtown I've been except maybe for out synergy in Labyrinth?

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guessing we can't lynch Kokichi?

Are you scum? :c

not this time lovely :c you?

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I feel like I'm being taken out of context here.

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Yeah I might be misremembering Necromancer in particular. It was ages ago and Ank's rep in threw me off.

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I feel like I've been really transparent about my read on you and my issues with reading you this game. I agree that your defence of NM was pingy but I still think I'd actually be really surprised to see this start of day from scum!you.

I don't have time to sit in front of a PC and logically lay out a case on my read trajectory on you. If you want something more can you let me know what you're after?

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Shoshin/me w/w in particular never kills Rel
If you don't expressly townread both of us you're mad to think we are ever scum together

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I feel like I've been really transparent about my read on you and my issues with reading you this game. I agree that your defence of NM was pingy but I still think I'd actually be really surprised to see this start of day from scum!you.

I don't have time to sit in front of a PC and logically lay out a case on my read trajectory on you. If you want something more can you let me know what you're after?

In what way was it “pingy”?

You mean at the time or post-flip?

Mostly preflip but it's not overwhelmingly wolfy, just made me think to re-check it if NM did indeed flip town (=> see if it looked like t/s t/t etc.)

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@skitter, kinda? Like I saw some NM towntells in there but I've also seen him do that stuff as scum so I wasn't feeling all that strongly about the towntells I was seeing. Ngl if I was outright townreading NM I would have yelled and tried to steer the wagon elsewhere.

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@Shoshin: I can answer why she townread N_M, and I already did (because she already explained it, herself). I cannot answer whether her reasoning fits her town meta. As for throwing shade at your slot, tempers are high, what with us lynching a doctor. I can accept such things as coming from town generally. If Nancy is not capable of these things as town, that's another story, but I don't have the meta for this suggestion.
When I made reference to empty "he's town" posts, I didn't mean just those words. I meant half-hearted non-effort at explaining or defending N_M. I'm defending her because I think that your reasoning for scumreading her is fallacious. I don't like fallacious reasoning. I don't like fallacious reasoning even when it comes to a conclusion I agree with. In fact, as town I once defended another player against fallacious accusations, and made my own case against him in the same post (and caught a lot of flak for doing this).

@AlNan: No, I honestly don't think there is anything there indicating Shoshin-scum. Her attack on you can easily come from town, and is not completely unreasonable. I just think that you're town and that she's honestly mistaken.

You and reundo need to play together

(That's a compliment)

Literally dream team (also a compliment)

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I think this is the most obvtown I've been except maybe for out synergy in Labyrinth?

Don't know anything about labyrinth but this is the towniest that you have ever towned

And I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of scum you after having managed to dunk it that many times

asdfghjkl;' well said ;n;

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Shoshin/me w/w in particular never kills Rel
If you don't expressly townread both of us you're mad to think we are ever scum together

lol seriously...

Hey guys do we invite skitter to the block

Yes on the proviso skitter is the first person out if like {you, shoshin, skitter} I'd be wrong on (rel would have been the 4th name here)

if this were coalition etc. I'd have healed her fwiw

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So, when I flip, I will be one dead townie who’s reads shouldn’t be ignored.

Fairly confident that this is TvT and I have to stop engaging with Nancy for the sake of everyone's blood pressure and not spamming the thread

extremely big mood

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Skitter, shoshin, tw, mitillos: let's talk about Keyser

Also, AN: how much experience do you guys have with Keyser?

He's not posting which is like deeply annoying but when he does post, he sounds kinda like town!him. But he's also not pushing buttons the way he does as town.

tbh I think I want to townread him holistically but I'm not there. he's a bit out of my radar because I'd rather push wolfier slots bc I feel like he's gonna start towntelling at some point

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Key has these hints of towniness, a lot of his posts feel really towny by themselves. But overall, he's much less aggressive and much more passive than his usual town self. What are your thoughts, Nauci?

^^^^^^

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For me personally, aggressivness/passivity ranges a lot based on how busy I am, so I kinda want to townread Key because of his really towny posts even though a lot of his usual town play is missing. There's nothing actually scummy about him.

dat mindmeld tho
this exactly

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also nauci probs don't reference my scum pt of open 732 if she's scum planning on shooting pgo!irrel because they have a protect - it's a really thing to call me out for if she was planning on doing something similar that night

This is a really good pickup tbh
Regardless I think Nauci probably pushed her scumrange a couple of times already and can't really see her shooting Rel (her former scumbuddy who had her on locktown) either

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Yeah I kinda keep checking myself against Heroes Wanted where we had an early PoE of like 10 people which had something like 9 townies in it which was CLEARLY pushed by wolves. as a townie in the PoE I basically got bored of the game and tried to find a way to nuke my slot so I didn't have to argue against 100+ pages

but looking at the town MVPs in that game {Frozen Angel, Anka, Toranaga, probably Sando} did consistently have scumreads outside the PoE.

I kinda feel like the fact we have a fairly sizeable towncore and the more transparently town players are largely townreading each other + the fact the wagon was pushed back to NM towards EoD1 probably suggests that scum actually do have members within the PoE (the wagons yday felt pretty swingy which rarely happens in a gamestate where all wagons are town--i.e. scum don't mind who is lynched)

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also like tbf Creature was not PoE and was not widely scumread at all. the only flip so far that's surprised me was NM.

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I thought it was little happy farts. Huh. The more you know.

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@Nauci and worst: I don't know this reundo person, but thanks for the compliments.

I replaced into a scumslot in his first game just before 4p MyLo and he

OBLITERATED

me when I tried to mislynch a dude called fromage

viewtopic.php?p=10382607#p10382607

have a quick scroll thru the like 5 posts after this one too (no need to read them in detail obv. just admire how much of an absolute master this oshawott is)

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or to the bottom of the page I guess. I'm pretty proud of my town spew MS paint work.

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PoE

Given this is like a sweeping gamestate read you're tunnelling did you have any thoughts on my response with my read of the gamestate? Probably not super important but whatever

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@Performer why are you voting Mitillos? your post kinda makes it sound like its because he doesn't know a lot about starcraft

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I'm getting a bit bored

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Keeeeeeyseeeeeeer ❤❤❤❤
How are you reading Nauci after your d1 tinfoil?

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Have the townies so far been good guys in the game? If so being able to confirm a flavour as not a fakeclaim probably means confirming someone's alignment (if the flavour is also a good guy in the game) I think?

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I have this feeling like flavour massclaiming is a Bad Idea but I also have this feeling like Krazy isn't the type of mod to balance the game on punishing players for flavour claiming

so net of all things idrc, lmk if you want mine

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I mean multiball is a possibility for sure. This gamestate is a little bit exhausting for a few reasons, I feel bad for being less Present d2 as well

I'm kinda not sure whether you feel like Shoshin is multiball town who's on the wrong track or multiball scum Varsoon? What's your thinking there?

pedit: o
yea ok

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There will be a mafia faction, they will have daytalk.
There may be at least one third party role

this sounds better

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Wait hold on are you saying we're missing a nk?

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Role PMs have multiball/generic wording and the opening post says there is ~a~ mafia faction with daytalk so I feel like we're dealing with maybe mafia + SK

but irrelephant, as w Creature, was shot, so if the Zerg is a faction either they don't have a nightkill or they didn't kill last night...?

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Flavour gaming is a little addictive >:

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Vars sorry for this but you've softed a little too much. You're informed too right?

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My role indirectly implies we shouldn't claim abilities btw but explaining atm is roughly anti wincon

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1s bp
Just double checked myself

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Does it make sense for the other SC faction to have bullets for kill flavour as well?

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@Nauci I don't think crumbs are meant to be immediately recognisable :I otherwise I generally agree. Ironically I really don't think Performer is likely the one who killed Relly but I still don't think he's town

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I'm not really sure? But either way if he shot Relly last night using his 1sbp for protection I'd be pretty shocked if he was so comfortable with claiming 1sbp today when there's no other explanation for Relly's death

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Vars sorry for this but you've softed a little too much. You're informed too right?

Multiple informed townies in the same game?

Mitilos first claimed no ninja, then we crumbed/claimed informed townie with a flavour claim.

So you think it’s more than Varsoon being an expert on Starcraft?

Some of his language was TMIey. I still really expect him to to claim whether or not he is informed.

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Page of Nancy INTERRUPTED

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This is pretty tinfoily but I kinda wonder if Relly having claimed has anything to do with his death...?

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like claim/flavour vigs are not at all popular on MS
nvm this is stupid

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so the groupscum kill last night was probably on Creature I guess..? does NKA get us anywhere here? I really can't think of anyone but I can feel my interest fading and I want to stop that

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UNVOTE:
vote still there in spirit I'm just scared of scumkichi

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I have to be able to trust that townies won't make reckless antitown plays like that.

You for real? I think Perf is scum but his hammer is the most defensible part of his ISO. The hell else was he meant to do with like 6 hours remaining? NM was clearly a very viable lynch candidate and imo if he was going to claim at all he would have already done it.

I'm kinda flashing back to something someone said to me pretty recently but if scum always made reckless antitown moves and town never did mafia would be like.. obscenely easier than it is. do you have reasoning other than an holistic meta dislike of hammers on unclaimed slots?

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like I just finished a game where someone quickhammered someone they were informed was town on day one because they didn't wanna out that they were a town power role

in this case NM looked like a wolf and had expressed no interest in claiming

I actually don't hate Performer's hammer all that much

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Why am I scumreading Performer again

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I think I'm still at the point where I don't want to reconsider Shoshin, Nauci or skitter unless we're like Direly Fucked because those three are town. Shoshin blasted her scumrange sod1 and has stayed outside of it imo. Nauci is also feeling outside of her scumrange; the Rel kull could have like hypothetically happened from a faction she is not a part of I guess? so maybe that mechclear is moot but via play I don't think I ever had a legitimate reason to be suspicious of her and Rel's appeal to us to stop being dumb and bad was.. terrific

skitter is the first townblock member I'm wrong on but I'm still not feeling wrong; after gerrymandering shadow government democracy mafia I've read her correctly like 3 times in a row after a bit of work and using the same tells I've been working with recently I don't feel like I'm wrong here at all.

which puts like 3-5 non-town players in:
Keyser Söze
Xtoxm
Mewtaph
Mitillos
AlmostNancy
Kokichi Oma
Varsoon
Performer

I'm going to try and work on a more bottom heavy readlist. I just tried reading Perf's iso again and like..there is stuff in there I'd be genuinely impressed to see coming from scum!Perf... I think he's been shoved down my readlist due to townreads in higher tiers and I really need to reset this

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I personally thought it was the best place to investigate first because people would likely take issues with the -1 vote and the hammer

But I'm growing increasingly uncomfortable with the fact that mitillos was putting quite that much weight into the hammer, and now xtoxm as well

It just feels like an excuse to not analyze deeper

This is a really good pickup yeah. It'd be interesting to see how Xtoxm/Mitillos re-enter the game with Performer's flip but.... if we're actually looking at up to 5 scum in a game overfocusing on one scumread bc of a faux mechanical """"scumclaim"""" is uuuhhh

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Tbqh I'm wondering if my reasons for townreading Xtoxm d1 were more appropriately like "d1 pass" reasons rather than actual town indicators

Gonna go see if I can get back in my head then

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I definitely got sentimental about usual large game me's playstyle....Xtoxm if you're town talk to me about your other scumreads here man

Even if you think Perf is lockscum do you think he's like more likely soloscum who is bulletproof and killed Rel? what else about him is wolfy and who do you have down as groupscum?

Do you think he's potential groupscum? /any partner equity?

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@Shoshin sorry if I'm missing/forgetting this, could you sum up your towncsse on Varsoon quickly for me? Is it primarily meta of getting angery or heavily informed by your d1 real time interactions?

I still don't feel like his angeryness here is likely outside of his scumrange..? like I can imitate a few character towntells of my own and given Varsoon has a reasonable history of getting angery I'd be pretty surprised if scum!him is always as cool as a cucumber if that makes sense

I haven't done a metadive and I'm not sure when/if I'll have the opportunity to. Might need to outsource to your meta knowledge but I need to feel like my anxieties about townreading him are noted.

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i would find it very comical if perf gets away with that hammer and we lynch me instead. like hysterically funny. please do it.

fam

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for reals you got anything?

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I'd actually appreciate a Keys case a lot. I'm struggling there and keep ending up on "ttttooowwwwnnnnnn?"

VOTE: Mewt

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Very, very well cased.
VOTE: Keyser

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@tw I demand you be amused about this right here

I am amused o7
if this actually reds this is probably more valid as a basis for a tell than what I've been using (I misread Keys horrendously in Purgatory )

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I don’t think so. I liked your angle of entry and your consistent ‘grind’. I want you alive today.

"consistent 'grind'"? pls elaborate because these are not the words I would use about Xtoxm

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rpild

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interesting q and I wouldn't mind a Mewt lynch today either but I'm not sure I could acrually scumcase him convincingly if that makes sense. he's kinda in this mirror world version of my PoE where his d1 was heaps wolfy except when he was under heavy pressure and I kind of gave him a pass without meaning to and today he's been ........ ok and I'm kind of doing the same thing again without meaning to

like he's not particularly towny at all but he's not openwolfing if that makes sense. I think I'm talking myself circularly into nullreading him

[the worst]

If everyone who called an unannounced L-1 scummy this game would explain why it's scummy I'd be such a happy ducky