[Game Over] Open 743 - The Crown of Misery

[DarkLightA]

UNVOTE:

[DarkLightA]

Will do a little read through soon. If someone wants to give a run thorough of the main dynamics so far that would be appreciated.

[DarkLightA]

Some incomplete notes from what I've looked through so far.

Leo needs more votes I think. Persi, Thor, and Auro all seem like town to me so far, so I don't think scum are pushing a lynch there. Seems like a good choice.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Leodanny

This is really weak. Egix irks me a bit by I have very little more than a gut feeling now.

I thought the blatant self-contradiction in 233 was towny but also 240 reads like trying too hard to be flippant...

I like this. Something_Smart impressed me overall.

Also, what would be my scum motivation in "looking like I'm efforting", considering I've actually efforted in my scum games, especially when I'm questioning why someone townleaned me for doing that?

Just because you efforted as scum in the past does not mean you always will - or are you claiming it does?
I'm not sure what your motivation for it is - but it appears fairly factual you're doing exactly that so now I'm exploring it. It does make more sense to me you'd do it as scum, and it ASSUREDLY makes more sense to me you'd try to cover it up as scum as opposed to admitting it.

I'm feeling more like these answers are deflections than responses. Meh, then again you do answer in questions a lot like I do.
Please delve deeper into that first response and my rebuttal - I feel like the answer to your alignment is there.

I don't like this push.

- 101 - "He agreed with me though, so he can't possibly be scum." Seems like this is sarcasm intended to be funny, but then:
102 - "I'm also not trying to be funny."

This is a blatant misrep, to the extent that it's even hard to follow in the original posts. However, the general gist I've gotten so far is that he's just a rather scummy looking townie. Post 395 seems like a townslip, as daytalk and angel kill are indeed adjacent in the front post. If this is scum play it's excellent so I'm happy to be fooled by it. (Is this the same that is referenced in 477?)

i tried

too hard tbh

cop checks on both imo

How do you know a cop exists? Feels a bit like TMI.
If you're scum who knows cop exists, these posts make me think you have a framer as well.
If you didn't bother reading our exchange properly, why do you not think it could be TvT?

I generally found Auro's posts felt a bit forced, but this is a very good point. Same with post 423, which I don't think scum would share even if they thought of it. Getting similar vibes as from Persivul, townie with a playstyle seeming scummy.

——————

rb... Ugh... I don't know, I think the obvious answer is scum, but I can also see just scummy town play. The most condemning was the scumslip of cop knowledge 347, which was shoved under the rug real fast. This slip is reeeeeeally bad, but could be explained by his rather energetic playstyle. And vengeful slip soon after (365), though I could easily see coming from confused town. Some of the interaction with DVa, e.g. 569 felt like legit frustrated town.

——————

Lamees is an issue. I'm leaning towards believing her, and lynching a claimed Angel D1 isn't a great strategy.

——————

Spoiler: PS: Fucking rekt

@rb:

I'm going to have to ask you to stop repeating a joke that no one else wants to hear. Consider this an official warning.

so sad can't even express my hilarious and lovable personality

Chapter 3 - The dagger

Slaying the ghoul posing as Inferno Dragon was indeed exhilarating, but that fleeting joy
soon suffocated under the spectre of death that was haunting their village. Smiles twisted
into grimaces, and the lively chatter gave way to bitter disputes. On one side of the inn,
Thor and Auro were flinging heavy words at each other in a heated argument. On the
other side, a small group had formed and was gathering supporters. This time they called
for the death of Lamees, one of the leaders of the militia.

Lamees stood out in more than one way, from her unnervingly calm demeanour to her
lavender blue tresses, which was normally met with equal parts awe and superstition. Now
however, it made some call her humanity into question — a rumour started by militiaman
Robert Black, more famously known by his initials R.B.

rb:

Wow, she's an emotionally stunted, blue-haired undead witch, in my opinion. I can't believe her awful
disguise is fooling bright lads like you to be honest.

Lamees:

Rather intriguing that my "awful disguise" only started to bother you now, is it not?

Malakitty:

No, Arby is right. There's something... off about you.

Persivul:

Indeed.

YyottaCat:

Hear, hear.

Lamees:

Fools. You do not know what you're trifling with, for I am an angel. Strike me down, and Heaven's
wrath will surely fall upon you.

rb:

You lie, witch! She lies! She's only trying to save her miserable hide!

But upon hearing Lamees' words, Yyotta became possessed by great fear. She skittered
away to the door, hoping to remain unnoticed, but there she met another stranger. She
tried to push her way past, but the dagger he plunged into her stomach made that task
much too difficult. She stumbled back and collapsed to the floor in laboured breaths,
before the rot spreading from the wound engulfed her and left her a withered husk. The
stranger plucked his dagger from the corpse.

bristep123:

This one bolted for the door... figured it'd be a snivelling little ghoul. You're welcome by the
way.

Persivul:

And you're late, Bristep.

rb:

Wow, you should show some bloody gratitude, in my opinion.

The villagers did not hold back their thanks. Elated by their new victory, they raided the
inn's storage room and soon the ale flowed and a bountiful feast was served for lunch.
"Someone's last meal", a thought hovered over, but this time they ignored it and allowed
themselves to be happy, at least for a little while.

rb (L-4)

: Lamees, Leodanny, Egix96

Lamees (L-4)

: Malakitty, bristep123, Persivul

Leodanny (L-6)

: Thor665

DVa (L-6)

: NotNova

Dunnstral (L-6)

: rb

NotNova (L-6)

: DVa

bristep123 (L-6)

: Dunnstral

Not voting:

Something_Smart, Auro

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 1 actions:

December 23, 2018 - 8:00 PM (GMT)

You have (expired on 2018-12-23 20:00:00) to discuss and decide on a lynch.

Vote Count 1.02

Townpool: (Persivul, Auro, Something_Smart, lamees)
Scumpool: (rb, egix, thor)

[DarkLightA]

By the way the modding in this game is amazing.

[DarkLightA]

Thx for making me feel included and not overlooked

[DarkLightA]

VOTE: rb

[DarkLightA]

NGL I will be super disappointed if DLA flips town
Because that would mean her predecessor went full-on doo-lally-twp.

I'm a he

Also DLA has pinged for me by congratulating Something Smart on good play, as I've not seen that at all especially as they were totally on board for lynching a claimed angel.

This is fair. I'm not yet fully into the game so my views aren't that rigorous yet. I had a look over the situation you mention, and in general I don't necessarily think lynching Lamees is that far-fetched, and I can see where Something's coming from. I don't think it's optimal play though, especially cause (as mentioned by someone I don't remember) it's an unlikely claim by scum. However, the following post I

really

don't like as it's phrased assuming Lamees is town.

Okay I think the right play is to hang Lamees and have her shoot rb.

Although actually, given the chance of GF, it might be better to just hang rb.

This feels a bit slippy.

We have to lynch DLA though, because I don't see how that is playing to town's wincon (the way DVa went out) so has to be scum. Makes sense if they are scum because wanting to end the day early and not have anyone gather more info on who their partners are sort of plays more scum sided, actually wanting to end the day right there was really bad for town.

Only chance DLA is town is if they are angel. Which is super low, I'm already angel and chances of rolling angel arent high.

So if DLA does not claim angel, we have to lynch imo. I mean, scum literally claimed, the rules state there are certain situations where if you feel your claim can benefit scum then I guess you can do so. Not claiming their role also only benefits scum etc.

This post really rubs me the wrong way. It should be fairly obvious DVa's play isn't optimal at the end of her game (or at least there's a high chance), but Lamees is analyzing it as if it should be. Which is odd and seemslike intentional misrepping. PEDIT: This has been hammered a bit already.

@DLA: Yay that you noticed the RB cop slip too. While it did feel TMI, I don't think it's *as* damning because in Newbie 1900, I was saying that one usually trolly slot was better dealt with investigatives, that led to a TMI push on me. I think RB's play progression seems a lot less agenda driven and more towny (the trolling around and then frustration at DVa's posts).

I hear what you're saying, but I still think it's really ugly.

[DarkLightA]

To be clear 495 is the post I'm referring to in commentary of 719.

I have to look over SS a bit more after that slip

[DarkLightA]

Very opposed to the general conclusion

[DarkLightA]

That scum pool is really bad

Because you're included or because you disagree?

[DarkLightA]

Okay I think the right play is to hang Lamees

and have her shoot rb

.

Although actually, given the chance of GF, it might be better to just hang rb.

This assumes she flips angel.

[DarkLightA]

NSS?

It's written as if he doesn't expect her to flip scum.
It's not a hard slip, which is why I referred to it as feeling slippy or whatever

[DarkLightA]

Why leodanny?

[DarkLightA]

Do you think that's right?

[DarkLightA]

I noted this as well, but don't you think an equally valid hypothesis is that he's overloaded with games? 1 game isn't much to go off.

[DarkLightA]

I'm not saying I think he's town. I'm saying you're trying too hard to fit his play to a meta of exactly one game.

[DarkLightA]

you got us

[DarkLightA]

you got us

Awesome. can we call it a game then?

Is this where I self-vote again?

[DarkLightA]

Ugh don't do this Auro I was starting to think you were town

[DarkLightA]

I feel completely lost and am full of null views.

[DarkLightA]

Persivul you're my only townread, tell me who's scum

[DarkLightA]

Like, RB's cop TMI slip is the closest I have to a grip on this game

[DarkLightA]

Atm rb is the only lynch I'm happy with. However, there are a hell of a lot of people I wouldn't cry too much about if they were lynched.
Let's not lynch persivul though

[DarkLightA]

Lol I actually think the problem is we have too much information... And I still can't see anything. Bah

[DarkLightA]

This game is special though because scum have knowledge of town roles. I think that adds credibility to it being a legit slip

[DarkLightA]

I like Nako's analysis. Reads as genuine.

[DarkLightA]

Read the game, Newbie 1900.

I did realize I tend to town players who townread me and whose posts I find myself agreeing with (like Ariane in 1900 and Cleric in 1899), so I am vulnerable to pockets.

I had a great case on scum!Volxen in my just-completed Newbie 1900

In my most recent completed game with her, Newbie 1900, I treated her pretty much the same

While it did feel TMI, I don't think it's *as* damning because in Newbie 1900, I was saying that one usually trolly slot was better dealt with investigatives, that led to a TMI push on me.

I did the same thing in Newbie 1900 and voted a non-contributing slot D1.

You should read Newbie 1900 if you get a chance. Most of the reasons she's pinging you - she did the same as town that game.

I feel like we could turn this into a drinking game.

[DarkLightA]

Dunnstral (L-3)

: Persivul, rb, Egix96, Malakitty

Malakitty (L-3)

: Lamees, Auro, Dunnstral, Nako

rb (L-5)

: Leodanny, DarkLightA

Leodanny (L-6)

: Thor665

DarkLightA (L-6)

: bristep123

Something_Smart

The case on Mala

I like this. I have been neglecting Mala to some extent in this game as she hasn't piqued my interest, but her dodging of rebuttals is a bit disconcerting. But tbh I think the case makes me feel more positive about Auro than negative about Mala.

I'm looking into this. This is a semi-prodge as I'm dangerously close to the deadline, but I'll be back in an hour after eating. I'm not completely caught up but I still think Leodanny is a bad lynch. A typical day 1 lynch, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he's done anything scummy, he's just an overloaded newbie.

[DarkLightA]

Still my only firm town read is Persivul. I'm happier with Auro now than I was.
I don't want to lynch leodanny even if I'm not sure he's town. I think the wagon formed for the wrong reasons.
I don't think {Dunnstral, rb} are both scum. So there's that. Dunnstral is neutral to me, rb is leaning scum.

[DarkLightA]

Malakitty case I'm not that convinced about, but I'd prefer her lynch over leo if that's the two options.

[DarkLightA]

I think Dunnstral is town. He seems to be guided by posts and not an agenda (see 820 and 822) and his arguments make sense.

[DarkLightA]

VOTE: Malakitty

[DarkLightA]

^Lol

[DarkLightA]

10000 wallposts

My feeling about this game

Hehe the irony as you've just filled 3 pages

[DarkLightA]

also because mala's likely town

Not really

How the fuck am I being insecure?

You are using a ducking shit ass one game to do a false read on me. I didn’t sheep RC. I had a lynch pool before RC asked me to lynch lclp. I had a pool of three. Does it matter which of those three to lynch first. Plus RC claimed cop and RC and I played many games together so I was pretty ducking confident he was town so it was me working with a town read.

No the town was aboultse fucking garbage that game. We had one that decided to lie about being a PR and they weren’t. That’s game throwing right there. Instead of listening to confirmed fucking town that had flipped they didn’t even reasses the flips and lynched wrong in lylo. It’s not an insult when it’s true. It’s how people get better.

It’s like my line of field of work. You have to take criticism if you aren’t going to able to take it you aren’t going to get any better. If you don’t show you are trying then have fun trying to either hold a job or have people take you seriously.

Yey Malakitty is finally towning up

Why yay?

[DarkLightA]

Tbf breaking it up makes it easier to read

[DarkLightA]

Why yay?

because I like having townreads, specially in a game I had difficulty to read some players

Good answer

[DarkLightA]

Leo is lynchbait though

[DarkLightA]

Persivul get onto the mala wagon mate

[DarkLightA]

VOTE: Malakitty
If Dunnstral couldn't, I will.

[DarkLightA]

UNVOTE:
Misread

[DarkLightA]

pedit: Lemme guess, you thought he was a Witch right?

Nah I confused vig and vengeful cause I'm stupid.

Let's start with the shitty hammer:

VOTE: Auro

This is bad

[DarkLightA]

Wait serious?

This needs an extension

I still wanted a deadline extension

VOTE: Dunnstral

Meh

Eh, no point in posting intent

VOTE: Dunnstral

Let's start with the shitty hammer:

VOTE: Auro

VOTE: Creature
lol

[DarkLightA]

1133 and 1138 I said multiple times because I wanted more time to think of a decent wagon rather than a compromise wagon

however I had to go with Dunnstral because apparently there was no deadline extension

Also considering Dunnstral was at L-1 and we had like 18 hours left, I deduced it was scum because scum would want to cut what the lynchee has to say, like it happened when Irre hammered me at Open 738 even though we had like 1-2 hours left and I was arriving home to say plenty of stuff.

VOTE: Malakitty
What did you think would come that didn't come *after claimed while at L-1*??

UNVOTE:
Misread

Why?

Cause I'm stupid and have been away from mafia for too long and don't know the roles. I mistook Dunn vig for vengeful and shot (presumably) mala, who I deduced was immortal. Now I see he's not vengeful and immortal isn't immune.

[DarkLightA]

VOTE: rb

[DarkLightA]

rb (L-3)

: Thor665, Lamees, DarkLightA

Malakitty (L-5)

: Auro

Auro (L-5)

: Creature

Nako, Leodanny, Malakitty, rb, Egix96,
Something_Smart

@auro, read post 347 and your post that follows (348). To me, after the cop flip, it looks like one of you def have tmi for that point in the game.

Wow, so anyone who's observant enough to notice a TMI slip, you'll accuse them of TMI yourself?
So if catching TMI slips is TMI, my town flip means you're scum forcing a TMI slip on me?

I actually think it's a fair point

VOTE: rb

Rb would be my top pick if Mala is scum.
Your reasoning for RB being scum is largely the slip, I take it?

Yeah

[DarkLightA]

I don't say I agree with it, but yes I think it's a fair point to raise.

[DarkLightA]

Tbh more so in your case, as you were the one that pointed it out. I don't think it's a scumtell for you but I can see how it can be construed that way.

[DarkLightA]

I'm confused by the immortal role. Which actions constitute angelic fire? Venge/Vig?

[DarkLightA]

(...) If players don't believe I still get a smite. And if they do, scum will be forced to night kill me, and I get a smite.

But if you are pushing an intentional town lynch that is a bad play, in my opinion.

Exactly auro, day 1 lynch is the worst play to lynch angel. Because as the game progress the higher my chances are to hit scum. So they are forced to kill me night 1 if you think about it. (...)

Lamees why do you think you were nightkilled tonight?

[DarkLightA]

@Egix: Thanks
@Lamees: I meant weren't

[DarkLightA]

Remind me why you claimed

[DarkLightA]

Like, RB's cop TMI slip is the closest I have to a grip on this game

This is TMI? Eh wut

[DarkLightA]

Can we talk about the progression from this...

"Angel gets a kill-therefore we should lynch day 1"

That's basically saying I should gamble on 3/9 odds. Nice work.

And keep in mind these odds arent taking into account

if there is an immortal

.

to these...

If we can get rid of

the immortal

(high chance of scum picking this role to counter me) before my lynch/nk that would be great.

But I really hope

the immortal

gets lynched before then.

So there's

def an immortal and ghost

in the game. At least the ghost is confirmed useless at this moment.

Anyway today is the day we need to lynch

the immortal

.

---

If scum knows there is an angel and also a priest

(highest chance to roll) in the game then it makes sense for them to choose both immortal and ghost. So this gives our town power roles not as much effect.

Also this is hella suspicious

VOTE: Lamees

[DarkLightA]

(...)

Why ghost though? Zombie seems like a better role, or even witch.

To frame and get townies killed by angel and guilty by priest. Zombie wouldnt be ideal imo, as dunstrals role could kill the zombie. So can angel I think.

...So the reasoning for not thinking scum have zombie D1 is an at-the-time unflipped cop.

[DarkLightA]

But these weren't.

[DarkLightA]

Caveat for fairness, she entertains a zombie briefly in 681.

[DarkLightA]

Yeah only zombie scum would want their own lynch. Otherwise it's game throwing? Who knows.

What I do know is that me assuming an immortal in the game is not a case...

I personally think zombie is a pretty obvious pick because it works pretty damn well in endgame. Unless maybe there's a sorcerer in the game as well.

[DarkLightA]

There was a witch hunter in the game. Was. So dunnstrel could have killed the zombie for good. Also zombie takes the most points so choosing zombie could hinder your scum team mates.

That's a fair point. In a combo with sorceress I can definitely see immortal being necessary.

[DarkLightA]

And I repeat, I can confirm no sorceress in this game.

Where are you repeating this from?

[DarkLightA]

Oh lol I was trying to make you slip. Alrighty you're ahead of me.

[DarkLightA]

rb (L-4)

: Thor665, Something_Smart

Lamees (L-5)

: DarkLightA

DarkLightA (L-5)

: Lamees

Malakitty (L-5)

: Auro

Auro (L-5)

: Creature

Nako, Leodanny, Malakitty, rb, Egix96

Yeah it was a long shot at a slip for that reason

[DarkLightA]

So now that that's done I'll tell you where I'm at. I think Lamees is a zombie. Read this:

Anyways I'll say it one more time before I move on from this claim. I do not think we should lynch me day 1 as 3/9 odds are low. I prefer a 50/50 or more and I'll be fine with my lynch.

50/50 or more means scum have already won.

True, sorry, town perspective here. Forgot how scum wins. Never rolled it in months.

So I guess closest we can get is 3/5 chance assuming we misslynch twice. Still way better than 3/9

But I really hope the immortal gets lynched before then.

This strategy is excellent for zombie play, and I'm guessing this is the current scum strategy. With a mislynch today, tomorrow will be LYLO ignoring unpredictable events. At that point, drawing a lynch more or less guarantees a win. It's also consistent with the overemphasis on immortal/ghost, avoiding the rather obvious choice of zombie. This, especially the ghost, is really strange before a cop roll, but of course makes sense with JOAT+cop.

[DarkLightA]

I preferred poke-creature

[DarkLightA]

If scum knows there is an angel and also a priest (highest chance to roll) in the game then it makes sense for them to choose both immortal and ghost.

Lamees walk me through why you thought there was such a high chance for priest to roll. From the perspective of angel I'm pretty sure it's well

(?)

below 50%, no?

[DarkLightA]

You saying that I know there is an immortal is tmi is ridiculous because that can only be true if you know there is an immortal. Looks like you slipped again lol.

http://i.imgur.com/EAvvfw2.gifv

[DarkLightA]

well I nailed that didn't I

[DarkLightA]

You saying that I know there is an immortal is tmi is ridiculous because that can only be true if you know there is an immortal. Looks like you slipped again lol.

How the fuck does that statement make sense?

[DarkLightA]

Use the image tag!

Didn't work :sadface:

[DarkLightA]

This is Gene. Gene lives in Pennsylvania.
How do I know this, you ask? It's just an assumption I'm making.
But why would you assume he lives in Pennsylvania instead of Texas, you ask? Well, I just think it's the most likely, given that Pennsylvania is a pretty big state.
You're saying you think that's suspicious? Well then I deduce you must have inside information on Gene's whereabouts.

[DarkLightA]

Spoiler alert: Gene lives in Ireland.
Spoiler alert #2: You don't need to know that to find my statement suspicious.

[DarkLightA]

Goddammit you're breaking my flow here

[DarkLightA]

You've been unreasonably sure that there's immortal/ghost in the game. You had

no

reason to think there was ghost, apart from that it was likely that there was a cop (it wasn't).
Your role claim of angel makes a lot of sense if you are lynchproof.

[DarkLightA]

(...)
---

If scum knows there is an angel and also a priest

(highest chance to roll) in the game then it makes sense for them to choose both immortal and ghost. So this gives our town power roles not as much effect.

Also this is hella suspicious

VOTE: Lamees

Here it is

Here it is

[DarkLightA]

[DarkLightA]

post 844 mate

[DarkLightA]

I can't even tell if that's a scumslip or townslip

[DarkLightA]

Angel/Priest -> Immortal/Ghost

[DarkLightA]

highest possibility for a town power role

There's still 75% in any round that it's *not* priest

[DarkLightA]

So what was my angle here as scum? I just ouright slip to everyone that there is a priest/immortal or ghost immortal (depending on your mood) and make the game really hard for my scum buddies?

I think you're zombie. I think you're lining yourself up for a lylo lynch.

[DarkLightA]

There might be an emchantress, who can kill zombie and block it from reviving.

Hahahhah

[DarkLightA]

Christmas came late this year

[DarkLightA]

Btw good job of suddenly not knowing the dynamics of the roles you've spent the game researching

[DarkLightA]

Oh ffs I fucked up again I thought you said sorceress

[DarkLightA]

If there is a zombie we lose right? Since witch hunter was killed, lynching zombie won't do anything.

@mod

does angel kill zombie permanently?

I thought zombie would survive only one lynch

Yeah this is where I was coming from too, but the role card makes it ambiguous. It says "delayed lynchproof" in the role table so I assumed it was 1-shot and required a night's notice.

[DarkLightA]

Hang on...
"will not reanimate if doing so will endgame the remaining players"
...so that means if it's lynched in LYLO and the scum make a night kill it won't respawn, right?

[DarkLightA]

I understand..

[DarkLightA]

UNVOTE:

[DarkLightA]

Sorry been away for New Years sans wifi and still don’t have too much time
I think Lamees is correct lynch tomorrow if we mislynch today. Apart from that I need to read more and come back later sorry