Newbie 1915: Africa [Game Over!]

[skitter30]

ic intro, adapted from lots of others!

hello everyone!

i'm skitter and i'm the ic (inexperience challenged) for this game

i'm a player in this game and will be playing to my wincon, but i have the additional responsibility of leading by example and answering any questions you have about the game, the site, mechanics, rules etc. i am required to answer these questions honestly, and will make it clear when i'm talking as a player or as the ic

Here are some helpful links (a lot of them from our helpful wiki):

-> Forum Rules and Guidelines
-> The Glossary
-> Commonly Used Abbreviations
-> The Newbie Guide
-> Articles on How to Play Well

(be sure to check the dates these were written/updated, as good advice changes over time)

And here are some helpful tips:

--->

Try to check in at least once a day.

Besides the activity requirements listed in the op, it's just necessary for a fun and healthy game that everyone

plays

. If you post very rarely, or only post a little bit at a time, you may get scumread for lurking. Even if you are not scumread for it, what's the fun in playing a game where multiple people are hardly participating?

--->

"Site Meta"

is the description of how people on Mafiascum like to play mafia. Things can be different on other online mafia sites, or if you play IRL, so it's good to know what's expected of you on this site. These aren't "rules", per se, but if you don't follow these guidelines it is likely things will go poorly for you on MS. Some examples are...

--->

Give "intent to hammer"

when you want to place the final vote on a player. This gives time for that player to give a final plea and to claim their power role, if they have one (or if they are lying scum). If, after that player has posted, you are still sure you want to hammer them, go ahead and place the final vote. It is also common courtesy to declare "L-1" ("1 Vote away from lynch") when you place the penultimate vote on a player.

--->

Don't claim your role until you are in danger

of getting lynched - usually, you want to keep it a secret right up until someone gives intent to hammer. Sometimes, everyone will agree to claim in a "massclaim". Other than these situations, do not make your role obvious, even if you are a vanilla townie, as claiming makes it easier for scum to kill power roles at night.

--->

Do not fake claim a power role as town!

While it may help you avoid getting lynched, you might cause a real PR to out themselves by counter claiming - then the mafia will know who the PR is, and you will probably get lynched for lying to town. Feel free to fake a claim as scum, though, if you think it would help.

--->

Don't vote for yourself.

There are very rare occasions where this is helpful in non-newbie games, but usually only for scum, so if you do it here you will certainly get scumread for it.

--->

Mafia is hard!

As town, it can be hard to figure things out, and stressful when people think you're scum.

That's okay!

Just share your thoughts on who you think is scum as they come to you, and don't be afraid to change your mind. As scum, it can be hard to lie convincingly, and stressful when people think you're scum. Don't let that scare you! Try to think of what you would post if you were town, and don't be afraid to "change your mind".

---> This is a game.

Have fun!

[skitter30]

@nsg

: regular vla on fridays/saturdays!

also this is slightly awkward timing cuz i'm moving on sunday so like semi-vla until ~tuesday? i'll be around and will def post between now and then but i might run into trouble with the 36 hour prod timers early next week

also i really like your vcs!

VOTE: Tall1s

[skitter30]

uh def in the thread; it's against site rules to talk to someone else about the game outside of the game thread (and/or in other allowed game-adjacent-threads that the mod knows about - like in this game if you're scum you can obviously talk to your partner in the scum pt)

[skitter30]

Do not post in the game thread or any private topics following your death, with the exception of the dead thread.

^^^^

nope, once i'm dead, i can't post anymore (this applies to all players)
i'm a player in the game so all the normal rules about being a player apply to me
but while i'm here, if you have any questions about theory or etiquette or site meta etc, i'll answer them as best as i can

if i'm dead early on tho i'll keep following this game so i can talk about it and how people played once it ends

[skitter30]

Okay, I think I understand. Thank you.

VOTE: cbynumber

everyone who already posted is town

honestly i don't think anybody's done much ai yet

[skitter30]

alignment indicative
ie i don't think that most of the posts on the previous page were really either townie or scummy

[skitter30]

Hey guys, I'm new, never played mafia online or in irl at all, but my friends said I should try this so here I am. I'm a bit confused by my role to be honest though, since I'm a Vanilla Townie (it's ok to say that, right?), does that mean I don't get to do anything? Sorry if it's a dumbb question, I've never played before like I said, so I want to find out what I can. Great to get started with you guys, sure this'll be heaps of fun!

so it's usually not such a great idea to claim at this stage - if your'e a pr, scum now know to kill you, and if you're a vt, scum know that you *aren't* a pr (and the pool of possible prs thus becomes smaller)

usually town claims when they're about to be lynched (ie so that if they're a pr we know not to lynch them) or during mass-claim, when everyone claims so that we can put together claims and night results to see if we can mechanically find scum that way

(scum is the colloquial term for mafia on this site)

those are the main scenarios where town claims. scum, of course, can claim whatever they want whenever they want if they think it'll help them

==

Is it just me or does the entirety just reek scum, including the player name?

why does this reek scum?

==

VOTE: NotMySpamAccount

Yeah, if you get lynched for that slip you can always start in the next newbie game and not make that mistake again.

i don't understand the slip you think he made here

==

at worst NotMySpamAccount might be playing up the newbie card but i'm not really vibing that rn
not really seeing his entrance as scummy tbh

==

I have a hard time believing newbtown who posted this eager beaver 1st post
didn't read the IC post first

there's an eight minute time gap beetween his two posts; to me, it looks like he said hi, then went back and all the prior posts, and then realized his mistake

==

If you're really town, you'll need to build a convincing case as to why we should dismiss your apparent newbish mistake and account for why you didn't bother to read the rules before playing a game you've never played before.

why do you think his actions are more likely to come from scum than town?

==

How do I remove my vote?

you can change your vote by voting again
or you can unvote by:

UNVOTE: [ /unvote]
(without the space between the '[' and '/')

[skitter30]

The name gives contrast to your claimed newbieness. Imo from your first post it's very plausible you are an alt of someone and deciding to play the newbie card for "easy town cred".

his name was picked when he signed up for the forum (ie before he got his role in this game) and isn't directly mafia related; i see nothing to tie his name to his alignment or to his mafia experience and i think this is a bad reason to push him

also alts can't signup as new players in the newbie queue (they can replace into a newbie slot, but can't start the game as a newbie)

rvs = random voting stage

did you vote NMSA because you think he's scum? or for pressure and to get a reaction? (i'm not sure based on 56)

Being very liberal with their role as VT helps mafia significantly more than town so as town there's zero incentive to do this

. I explained the name bit earlier. I also have a bit of a habit to mistake bad play for scum play in IRL mafia, so it could also be some of that leaking through.

the name thing isn't a valid reason to suspect him imo

what's the scum incentive for fake-claiming vt here? i can understand that you think there's not town motivation, but i don't know the scum motivation there really either

==

Tunneled someone from very early day 1 and didn't stop the whole day. If you look at my last game (newbie 1912, still happening) it's very similar to what Enter did, but worse

don't refer to ongoing games please, it's against the site-rule of 'don't talk about ongoing games'. until it ends pretend it doesn't exist and don't bring it up

==

NMSA you have friends on this forum? who are they?
posts like 49 kinda make it seem like you've played before

==

tttt might be town

MaryJo is town and we are fated to become BFFs

why is she town?

==

elements what's your mafia experience?

==

I said I'd unvote and I will. I'm not releasing NotMySpamAccount from my possible mafia list because it still might have been a first time scum player trying their hand at distancing themselves from their alignment.

TTTT will be my new best friend at some point in the future, so I refuse to accept that this person is untrustworthy. Yet.
Elements made a really valid call on NotMySpamAccount. Possibly because Elements is scum and needed to point their finger anywhere but at themselves.
Skitter may have been speaking as ic, but I felt I was fully justified in calling NotMySpamAccount out for a really scummy post. Defending a partner?

when i'm talking about my reads or if i think a push is good i'm mostly talking as a player; if i say something like rvs = random voting stage i'm talking as an ic

not defending him, more pointing at that the push was bad and based on things like his account name which is .... totally irrelevant to his alignment, and i still don't know why his entrance was scummy (ie as opposed to just bad)

i'm a little confused by NMSA because his initial entrance seems plausible to me at face-value but a few of his posts belie that he may have played mafia somewhere before

also this list is a little wishy-washy
ie a bunch of you r reads take the format of: person A might have a valid reason for doing X, but they may have done it because they are scum too
and doesn't really pick a side
(i'm aware that it's early and that it's hard to come to firm conclusions at this stage, but it's pinging me so i'm noting it)

[skitter30]

Question for ic or game moderator: Is everyone here other than ic really a newbie to this forum? I read something about alt accounts.

there's a couple of players in each newbie game that are se's (i forget what that stands for honestly); they've already played a few games onsite so kinda know how things work

in this game that's bbmolla and tttt; i've never played with either of them before

(also a lot of this info is listed in the op of this thread or the op of the newbie queue)

the rest of you are newbies, which means you're in their first 3 games on site; if people haven't said anything, i don't know if this is literally people's first games or their second game or their third; it's possible to check, i just haven't.

[skitter30]

the name thing isn't that important. It just gives the impression he has existed on forums before thus giving rise to suspicion he could have experience we don't know about. It's more incidental than anything else.
The post itself is more anti-town then scum coming from either side. But if they are scum it could be a "too scummy to be scum" esk post, or a way to say that scummy plays are from inexperience later in the game

existing on forums before != prior mafia experience; don't conflate the two things (ie he could have participated on non-mafia forums before etc)

This is my 4th game of forum mafia, third on this site. My first was a role madness game with my uni's mafia society. Lets just say that didn't go well. I've played too much town of salem, secret hitler, resistance etc. but only started playing actual mafia in September.

have you played scum before?

==

you haven't asked me why I think NotMy's first post is scummy
I'm assuming you think I'm just pushing a wagon for a reaction
that's incorrect
I voted NotMy bc his first post looked scummy AF
it's LAMIST in the worst ways
can LAMIST come from town?
yes, especially newbtown
and NotMy does look a bit better since that post
but I'm surprised you don't see how bad that first post was

i odn't think you're pushign for a reaction, i think you think the post was scummy
yeah, the post is god-awful. idk if it's bad in a scummy way tho, or in a lamist-y/over-eager/newbtown kind of way
i don't think the post itself is inherently scummy, but if he's scum he's def relying on playing the newbie card. his later posts have been better imo

what do you think of maryjo?
==

It's not impossible that NMSA cut the cheese, but you dealt it. Meaning you might have pointed out that his post reeked of scumminess so none of us bother looking at you.

you're basically saying he was trying to deflect attention from himself? he wasn't under fire at that point iirc (and in fact he was pushed because he pushed NMSA)

==

kinda think elements is town tbh
maybe nmsa too actually

==

maryjo how do you read elements?

==

I would be fine with getting rid of someone who isn't posting. It'll give us some practice if nothing else. I haven't seen anything from Tall1s. Maybe we'll hit paydirt.

VOTE: Tall1s

if he doesn't post in the next day or so he'll just get replaced (there tends to be a player or two in most newbie games that just site-flake before /inning for a game and the game actually starts; he might be one of those idk)
either way pushing someone who isn't here won't really accomplish much, i think it might be better to focus on the people who *are* posting

(ie if he's site-flaked voting him wont' really accomplish much because he wont' know that you're voting him, or care)

i wouldn't really suggest lynching an inactive today; a better solution is to wait for them to be replaced
i also don't think we're anywhere close to endign the day yet
==

MJL seems town, since she's making reasonable arguments. Outcome doesn't look threatening. If anyone else wants to get onboard with at least pressuring these people, now's your chance.

VOTE: Tall1s

why does reasonable arguments make her seem town?

==

I wouldn't love to lynch an inactive without them getting a chance to defend themselves, but I guess if we have to I'd be on board. I don't know about a no lynch, I haven't thought about it a lot but that seems like it only helps scum by letting them get a "free kill" so to speak.

yeah i think nmsa is town

[skitter30]

nsg is very good at getting pagetops when she mods

[skitter30]

ok then i'm tending town on you

[skitter30]

My reaosning was that she's contributing, trying to find scum, and arguing in ways that don't seem too tenuous.

i don't really townread her tbh

==

Replying to Skitter here: I read town on everyone with a slight (very slight) scum lean on you. Sorry.

Elements didn't actually say anything that I didn't say as well. We both saw NMSA's post as LAMIST. I just pointed it out to see if he would become defensive. He did not.

do tell about your scumlean on me
and for your second paragraph: you're basically saying your accusation that elements was pushing nmsa as a distraction from himself was a reaction test?

==

@skitter you're still voting tall1s as per your first post. Is that to infer you have no scumreads on anyone since your random vote?

i'm sometimes slow to vote day1; it was a random vote and i didn't see much reason to move it honestly; i didn't scumread anyone strongly enough

==

i'm tending town on all of cbynumber, elements, and nmsa

==

I don't understand how it helps mafia at all if Elements thinks NMSA is mafia?

If you're not helping town, you're probably mafia. I think that is a fair assumption to make.

The post is detrimental to town if NMSA is town so there's no reason to do it if they are town. If they are mafia they could be trying to build a wall of inexperience to hide behind - which if successful would help them

i don't think this is a fair assumption to make; town do scummy and anti-town things all the time - if they didn't, this game would be fairly easy. the trick is to try to figure who's *town* and doing scummy things, and who's *scum* and doing scummy things, which is easier said than done

basically just because someone did something anti-town that doesn't automatically make them scum

==

In your past game, 1911, you entered as a replacement mid-game. You're saying that 1911 was your first game ever yet you entered with a very good grasp of the terms and a firm understanding of what's going on and what's expected of you. You came into this game and very confidently declared your reads very shortly after you made your entrance. These are not the behaviors of a newbie. I don't think you're being honest with us.

are you basically accusing him of lying about being new?
(and that he's not capable of picking up terms and figuring out what's going on as town?)

i don't get why anything you've described here is scummy or something that he, as town, is unlikely/incapable of doing?
ie i don't get why this warrants a vote

and onwards to your next post - why is being comfortable in *his first game onsite* (ie not this game) belie anything about his alignment here?

The only may anyone can 100% know who the scum are on day if if they themselves are scum

Precisely. This is a newbie game. Salami is either an experienced player pretending to be a newbie (lynch all liars) https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... _All_Liars, or he's an over-confident, inexperienced player. If the latter is true

we should not be swayed by his untrained eye no matter how confident he appears.

Something doesn't feel right with Salami and I'm willing to put off suspicion on Elements until we get Salami figured out. If he's town, he'll leave a nice detailed explanation behind to tell us why we should lynch Elements next.

i'm probably voting you when i finish catching up and see the vc
bolded: what is this? why are you insinuating that he's experienced and lying across two games, and not just that he's quick at catching onto things? you're basically saying that no matter his experience level he shouldn't be trusted and i don't know why you think this really

also where did hte 100% scum thing even come from? he never said that

==

VOTE: Salami
I'll have more to say later

uh please explain why you're voting here

ok new post time

[skitter30]

VOTE: MaryJoOsmont

BBmolla is probably not scum.

Someone votes her and she doesn't question it, and even townreads him for it. That's suspicious enough to warrant a vote.

VOTE: MaryJoLisa2

why is this suspicious?

==

I meant to reevaluate you in light of Salami's flip

. I have a slight scum read on Skitters and a scum read on Salami.

what connection do you see between elements and salami?

==

I believe the lynch occurs when 5 players vote for the same person, up until 10 days. After 10 days, majority rules.

we have ten days to settle on a lynch, which happens when 5 people vote for the same person. if a lynch hasn't happened in ten days, a no lynch occurs by default

==

BBmolla didn't move the wagon off me, he was originally voting for cbynumber and then voted for you. Your reasoning is becoming really stupid and longwinded, I'm town so it's impossible for BB and myself to be a scumteam and it's premature for you to speculate on partners until one of the scum has actually been lynched.

i think she meant more that bbmolla (who, in this theoretical universe is scum and partnered with scum!you), was trying to create a new wagon to distract from the wagon on you, because if he's your partner he doesn't want you lynched
(ie not that he literally moved his vote off of you and onto someone else)

==

I think even if there's a mislynch, the remaining scum member performs a nightkill.

Yes, but the information we gather will all be based on hunches. I'm not really sure what the best course of action is.

?
mislynch = lynch on town
mislynch today leaves two scum overnight

we should never really no-lynch day1 here; no-lynching gives scum the oppurtunity to get in a kill without us having hte oppurtunity to try to remove one of them via the lynch; a lynch is town's only way to remove scum in this game so we need to utilize every oppurtunity we have. even if we're wrong we'll have more info for the future days (flip, nk, wagon analysis, etc) that we can use to try to sort through the smaller lynchpool

==

Basically, I just thought Elements made a perfectly justified accusation of LAMISTness from NMSA and I was surprised that Skitter didn't see it that way. My lean on her is very slight and as I look through the posts, I wonder if she wasn't just being a good ic and trying to bail a newbie out.

oh, it was def a bad and lamist post. i just don't know if it was lamist in a *scummy* way; that's why i didn't hop on it; i could def see it coming from newbtown and don't see why it's more likely to have come from newbscum

==

I did, it just didn't add up to me. If I'm scum and Salami is also scum, then why would he vote to lynch me? Why would he come in, "lay down the law" only to find that his scum partner was giving him a hard time?

he isn't voting you rn?

==

And if this is actually your second game ever and you're that intuitive and confident in your moves and those moves are correct, then you probably shouldn't be in a newbie game.

eh, i think anybody new to the site can play in this queue as a newbie, even if they've had prior mafia experience - even if they know how the game goes in a general sense, they can get a feel for site meta, the terminlogy, the deadlines, how games usually work, etc
it's a place for people just to try out the game on this site and see if they like it, irregardless of their expereince, before they feel ready to try out other queues

==

You can put me at L-1. It's just a game. When I'm lynched, you'll learn more information.

your ok-ness with being lynched is the only thing that i find townie from you tbh

==

someone just let me know if skitter is scum or town I've been skimming most of those walls

sorry, sorry, i'm an unabashed wallposter

[skitter30]

tending town: salami, nmsa, cbynumber
nulltown: elements
null: bbmolla, tall1s
gutscum: tttt
tending scum: maryjolisa

i'm not quite ready for l1 yet; we def should get a replacement before we end teh day; my vote is on maryjo in spirit rn
her willingness to get lynched is also holding me back from voting her; not sure that anti-survivalism comes from scum tbh in anything but a lamist sense

[skitter30]

rn = right now

[skitter30]

You can put me at L-1. It's just a game. When I'm lynched, you'll learn more information.

your ok-ness with being lynched is the only thing that i find townie from you tbh

How is it townie?

Aftet playing a lot of games, i've found that scum tend to be more survivalistic jn the face of getting lynched - both alignments can win after death, but one scum getting lynched makes scum wincon that much harder given that it leaves fewer scum alive to do the job. Scum, when about to be lynched, tend to get very survivalistic in trying to talk their eay out of it. Maryjolisa is *not* at all survivalistic rn; she's accepted her lynch and is fine with it.

Occasionally, scum who know that being survivalistic tends to be read as a scumtell will try to show that they're fine with being lynched so that people will townread them since they're doing the opposite of ehat scum normally do. Maryjo has almost wrapped around to this side of things and is so fine with it that it's almost lamist and put-upon and over the top and something thay she's saying to get people off her back. I can't tell rn if her acquiesce for her lynch is natural or lamist; it's townie in a surface-level kinda way but it feels almost fake if that makes sense

[skitter30]

null: bbmolla

??????????????????????

A) you've not done much ai imo, tbh, or at least not in ways i can read

B) how do u think i should be reading you, and why?

[skitter30]

VOTE: Salami
I'll have more to say later

Interested in the follow up to this.

Me too; ngl i think this is one of the worst posts in the game

[skitter30]

Upon revisiting Salami and Skitter's ISO with a fresh mind, I can see the town vibes picked up by BBmolla from salami. I can only assume they were covered up by the general prejudice you get when someone enters the game and calls you 100% scum. As for skitter, nothing she's posted seems particularly game advancing. I just sort of sits in with everything else not causing too much disruption. From an IC i'd imagine much more probing questions to get people to reveal more and potentially slip up
VOTE: Skitter30

Eh, i can see why you think this; like i said this game started at an awkward time for me; i'm moving today and i have regular vla on weekends; put together i've not had super much spare time so i've kinda been focusing on being caught up and making sure all questions have been answered or addressed; i'll be more *present* probably ~tuesday

[skitter30]

VOTE: Salami
I'll have more to say later

Interested in the follow up to this.

Me too; ngl i think this is one of the worst posts in the game

Skitter, you use a lot of abbreviations and you don't explain them in context. ngl is not in the abbreviations list. Is there a more expanded abbreviations list? I can't tell what's an abbreviation that is just normal lingo like tbh and imo (stuff I think I should know), vs game lingo like ic, ai, rn, and now ngl.

Ngl = not gonna lie
(Most of rhe abbreviations i use are normal internet lingo? Rn isnt mafia or site specific either)

Anyway what do you think of the fact that I think you might be scum?

[skitter30]

Ok, why do you think that makes me latching onto something i know isnt there?

And i also basically called your salami push garbage, except more eloquently. Do you also think i dont have a decent explanation?

[skitter30]

I've given very polarizing opinions, I don't understand how people don't get any sort of lean from me either way.

i don't know
they just haven't
your first post was low-key townie, i don't see much ai in the rest of them; the first post wasn't enough to bump you up out of null

==

@skitter - do you normally sort through direct interaction of players or second hand observations of their play the in general?
maybe it's better if I ask you like what's the split between those two
for example I would say I'm like 70-30 direct vs. indirect

probably more like 70:30 the other way for me (and probably like 90:10 for me as scum)
i tend to write walls and just say my opinion on posts; i tend to sort people or solve the game by talking myself through posts as i note things or make connections (this is especially prominent in lylo); a lot of the things i say are almost more for me than for everyone else - writing things out helps me think through things and think through all the implications.

i'll ask questions if i have questions, sometimes i'll go through a whole dialogue tree in an attempt to figure out what someone's thinking
i only really do real-time as town if i'm around and someone else happens to be on at the same time; i don't go out of my way to do it and it isn't particularly helpful for me
i'm more forceful about my opinion if i have someone i want lynched and i'm meeting resistance; or towards eod when i need to come to a decision; i've not really gotten to that stage in this game yet

also i still want to hear more about your salami vote (i know you said you're waiting for something; i don't want this thread to get forgotten about because the post was quite bad)

[skitter30]

and i'm kinda verbose, if that wasn't apparent

[skitter30]

Ok, why do you think that makes me latching onto something i know isnt there?

And i also basically called your salami push garbage, except more eloquently. Do you also think i dont have a decent explanation?

@maryjolisa can you answer these please?

==

It does feel fake to me, I think it has to do with just how quickly Maryjo gave up after getting called out. I mean, she didn't even try to pretend like that scumslip wasn't intentional.

i don't understand why it's a scumslip tbh
she's been scummy in quite a lot of ways, i don't think that is one of them


==

This might be my inexperience talking, but does this sound like a cop or something? Or is he just talking about the night kill or the lynch?

no, i think he means that something would happen or someone would say something that would justify/shed light on his salami vote; i don't think it has anything to do with night actions
(also it's not such a great idea to speculate about what cops may be planning on doing or to point out if you think you see a cop softing - if tttt really is a cop here and you noticed him softing/crumbing, suppose scum hadn't seen him soft - now you've spelled it out for them and they know who to kill tonight)

==

That kinda fleshes out what I was starting to think about her reaction, just total apathy towards her own imminent death.

yeah so i think the apathy is kinda lamist-y in a scummy kinda way, ngl

==

I think our best chance to win i

s to take the hit

and let town reevaluate the past conversations in light of the new information that will come from the lynch and night kill.

are you saying that you think that lynching you soonish and curtailing discussion would put town in the best position going forward?
or am i misunderstanding this? (ie that you think *a* lynch should happen soon, but not one on you?)

==

I’m still content with a Mary lynch.

I could live with a skitter lynch too. I’m not getting any sort of townvibes.

what is scum doing rn in your opinion? (ie where are they voting? are they voting? do they like these wagons?)

==

BBmolla: He prefers brevity but I don't get much particular scum vibes from him. #282, #18 and #178 feel like town posts to me.

what do you think of 315?

==

never mind, tttt is prob town; his salami vote is fine

[skitter30]

Skitter is our ic and as such, it’s her responsibility to keep the game moving and answer questions. She’s done a good job of that, but I don’t see her actually doing any scum hunting herself.

i think i said this like twice already - i moved across the country yesterday/today; this game has not exactly been my priority over the last couple of days
at the same time, i'm the ic of this game, and i view it as my responsibility to answer questions people may have as they come up, so i've been making sure to keep an eye on things so that i can do that and that's what i'm focusing on when i'm here - i'm not really *in* this game yet, and said i would be vla until tomorrow in my first post of the game; i've given a defined period of time where i would be unable to really play the game and said as such as soon as the game started

i've not really been *playing* the game yet, i agree. i don't understand why you're saying that this has anything to do with my alignment when i've said i'd be busy irl until tomorrow

She’s covered a little for Spam and she’s covered a little for Salami. I haven’t noticed her covering for me. I’m a newbie and there’s a 7/9 chance I’m town just like the rest of us. Salami and Spam can’t both be scum if she’s also scum, but I see a difference in the way she handles us. She's perhaps overly critical of Elements when TTTT and I were both picking up on the same thing from Spam. Maybe that’s just because I’m coming at it from within my own headspace,

but I see a difference in the way she's handling us.

given that if i'm scum i can't be partners with both salami and spam (ie you can't argue that scum!me is defending my partner for both of them), what is the signifcance about the bolded and why does it make me scummy?

She’s turning the tables and asking questions back to various accusers regardless of where their fingers are pointed

yes, because i ask questions in order to understand why people are doing what they're doing

She defended Salami and Spam,

possibly distancing herself from being seen as jumping on town wagons

and her criticism of Elements in particular gives her cover if he is her scum partner. I’m not saying he is, btw. I initially took her behavior to be part of her role as ic, but now I think it's a strategy.

bolded: uh why are you assuming they're both town if i'm scum here?
if we're assuming that you're town here, why am i going after you if scum!me's mo is apparently to defend town and criticize my partner?
if i'm scum do you think that elements flips before me?

She should know very well why that reeks of scumminess. It was beyond LAMIST and Spam was rightly called to account for his actions. In this post, I dismissed her actions as being ic. I presumed that she was trying to prod us into thinking things through, but I read the IC guide on the wiki page and it instructs ic’s to be present and helpful (which she has been), but it says not to keep kid gloves on. I'm now operating with the expectation that her kid-gloves have been off from the beginning.

a) i don't think it was a scummy post; it was a bad one. bad != scummy; don't conflate the two notions. i can understand why he was pushed for it but i don't think he should have been

b) what does me being ic have anything to do with that post? i have no idea what you're talking about in the latter half of this paragraph

The push was definitely not bad and

it was not based on Spam’s choice of username.

The push was based

entirely

on his behavior in the game. I’m not sure how she could have missed this, but we can see from post 55 to 73 that she has read it and understood our protests.

Why the cover for Spam?

Hey guys, I'm new, never played mafia online or in irl at all, but my friends said I should try this so here I am. I'm a bit confused by my role to be honest though, since I'm a Vanilla Townie (it's ok to say that, right?), does that mean I don't get to do anything? Sorry if it's a dumbb question, I've never played before like I said, so I want to find out what I can. Great to get started with you guys, sure this'll be heaps of fun!

Is it just me or does the entirety just reek scum,

including the player name?

VOTE: NotMySpamAccount

bolded: don't misrep what actually happened. elements said that his choice of username was scummy (later clarified in that he mistakenly thought it belied that nmsa had prior mafia expereince); the initial push was at least in part based on nmsa's username as shown in 30

italics: are you insinuating that scum!me is covering for my scumbuddy? if so, this kinda contradicts your argument that i'm staying off of townwagons. if not, what is the signifance of this phrase?

Post #101 Now she's acknowledging that Spam’s post “god-awful”, just not in a scummy way. Well what is it exactly then? It feels like she's prodding us to think things out but she's an experienced player in the game so if she's town, a little direction might have been helpful.

it's a bad post. it's not inherently scummy because i can see it coming from overeager newb!town as well as newbscum playing the newbie card. i can't really call it scummy if i see a perfectly plausible explanation for why it might have come from town!him
yeah, it's bad. is it the sort of post that only comes from scum? no.

As I get to posts #251 and #252 , it’s becoming increasingly clear to me that Skitter’s entire strategy seems to be making us

second guess ourselves

rather than put forth an earnest effort of scum-hunting.

show me where exactly you think i'm doing this

[skitter30]

BBmolla appears to be scumhunting, so he's probablly town to me.

where is this happening

==

why bring this back up after multiple people have covered it? you did a similar thing in your previous wall post, bring up something that had been discussed and resolved. It seems unnecessary.

because i read the thread in order and responded to it before i read those other posts and didn't cut it out

what changed your mind on this?

i don't think i changed my mind on this?

Maryjo has almost wrapped around to this side of things and is so fine with it that it's almost lamist and put-upon and over the top and something thay she's saying to get people off her back. I can't tell rn if her acquiesce for her lynch is natural or lamist; it's townie in a surface-level kinda way but it feels almost fake if that makes sense

[skitter30]

She defended Salami and Spam, possibly distancing herself from being seen as jumping on town wagons and her criticism of Elements in particular gives her cover if he is her scum partner.

Spoiler for my later detailed thoughts: it's because they're probably scumbuddies.

You spoiled my big reveal. We are now bitter enemies.

i don't understand how you can argue both of these at the same time
you realize that quite a lot
of your push on me isn't actually based on me doing anything scummy, right?
you have:
-> the fact that i'm not really *present* in the game (again, i moved this weekend)
-> me at once defending town lynches to avoid being criticized for jumping on townies who you later say might be scumpartners (you can't have both of these at the same time)
-> some stuff about me being ic that i don't understand the relevance of to anything
-> apparently my strategy is making people second-guess each other but i don't know either where you think i'm doing that or why you think this is a scum strategy of mine and not a playstyle thing for me to ask a lot of questions
-> that i disagreed with people calling nmsa's entrance scummy (why is a differing of opinion here scummy? if you think it's because i'm his partner what does the first quote in this post mean?)

like i'm at once scummy for defending townies but also criticizing my potential partner elements but i'm potentially defending my partner spam who i've avoided criticizing so that i'm not seen as jumping on town wagons?

[skitter30]

because i read the thread in order and responded to it before i read those other posts and didn't cut it out

i still don't see the point in including it

yeah, i prob should have taken it out, but i don't usually go back and edit my posts after i've written them so :shrug:

[skitter30]

i don't know.
it feels more scummy to me rn on balance because i honestly don't think i've ever seen town be *this* cool with a lynch like this; it doens't feel liek a really thought

are you saying that you think that lynching you soonish and curtailing discussion would put town in the best position going forward?
or am i misunderstanding this? (ie that you think *a* lynch should happen soon, but not one on you?)

i want her to answer this ^^^^ it's relevant to how i think about this

[skitter30]

*it doens't feel like a real thought

[skitter30]

(you can't have both of these at the same time)

I think this can be boiled down to MJL's love of fence sitting.

uh i'm apparently partners with you because i've criticized you
and also with spam, because i'm defending him

but i'm also avoiding critcizing town!spam and town!salami, which is scummy of me, especially in contrast of criticizing partner!elements

it's not fence-sitting, it's finding all of my actions scummy in a way that is not internally consistent

She defended Salami and Spam, possibly distancing herself from being seen as jumping on town wagons and her criticism of Elements in particular gives her cover if he is her scum partner.

i feel like there's sometihng else bothering about this quote that i'm going to try to figure out when i'm less tired

also this push is based on like pages 1-6 and i'm not sure why none of this was brought up before tbh

[skitter30]

it's not fence-sitting, it's finding all of my actions scummy in a way that is not internally consistent

eh, not literally *all* of my actions, that's an unfair exaggeration on my part

[skitter30]

elements, what do you think of bbmolla?

[skitter30]

townie: smpa, elements, salami, bynumber
nulltown: you
scumlean: bbmolla
idk: maryjo, probably scum
null: dick richards

what do you think of bbmolla (specifically 315)?

i know i'm a little unfocused; i'm kinda tired, sorry; if you want explanations i'll be happy to but like tomorrow when i'm more awake

[skitter30]

i feel like there's sometihng else bothering about this quote that i'm going to try to figure out when i'm less tired

also this push is based on like pages 1-6 and i'm not sure why none of this was brought up before tbh

It can totally wait. We have like 3 more months until this day phase is over. :: sighs ::

can you respond to the points i raised specifically in 354 and 358

[skitter30]

townie: smpa, elements, salami, bynumber
nulltown: you
scumlean: bbmolla
idk: maryjo, probably scum
null: dick richards

also if bbmolla is scum it's probably not with maryjo which means i'm going very wrong somewhere, probably in the townreads so i have to sort through those again

(unless dick richards is literally just scum which is possible but eh not particularly likely; i'm probably wrong somewhere)

[skitter30]

Aaaand I just lost my skitter post.
Essentially:
Skitter defending NMSA initially in the newbtown- scum- LAMIST debate at the start is not indicative of her being scum necessarily, the fact that she was willing to pile onto NMSA should he not be able to shake off his initial suspicion is.
Skitter tried to buddy up to me in order to push for a TTTT lynch tomorrow should MaryJo have been lynched today.
Attempting to go after TTTT for his vote on Salami was opportunistic, and something you'd set up if you already knew MaryJo wasn't going to flip scum.
NMSA is taking his cues from skitter, so when she's away for long periods of time he's kinda stuck on what he should be pushing (see previous post).

i don't think this is an entirely fair characterization of what i've said

i don't think i was willing to pile onto nmsa and i'm not sure where you're getting that from. i may have said something like *for right now i think xyz* - that was me saying what i thought right then, not leaving room to . it's always possible that i'll change my mind as new things develop in a general sense but i don't remember doubting the townread much at that time

i don't think i was buddying you to push a tttt lynch tomorrow; i also don't know where you think i'm buddying you

i don't think me questioning tttt about his salami vote was oppurtunistic; without the explanation, it was an opportunistic third vote on an awful wagon; the explanation was kinda too involved and convoluted and drawn-out to come from scum i think; i think scum would have just given an explanation after being pushed for it over a few irl days. sticking to his guns there was kinda townie

and i don't think there's much reason why i'd go after tttt tomorrow in particular if maryjo is town

Skitter tried to buddy up to me in order to push for a TTTT lynch tomorrow should MaryJo have been lynched today.

^Now that this isn't happening, she's attempting to do the same to Elements in order to push a vote on BBMolla today.

i also don't think this is an accurate represenation of what i'm doing
-> i'm not buddying elements
-> you seem to think i'm latching onto elements' giving a nullish read on bbmolla to promote a lynch there. ie that i saw elements' read ans so decided to push bbmolla.
you have it backwards. i'm scumleaning him, and so i wanted to know what other people think about him and if they see the same thing i do; i specifically asked him because he had bbmolla around null and i wanted to know if his opinion had changed.

[skitter30]

It won't be happening,

why not ...

Today I'll be considering the possibility that SPAM is being directed behind the scenes to ham it up with that newbie act and I'll reevaluate his actions with that in mind.

so you think i'm telling spam to play up the newbie act
(and that i'd tell him to claim vt in his opening post knowing that he'd get pushback from it? and then defend him knowing that he'd get pushback for it ... )

like what do you think i'm doing here?

[skitter30]

what do you think of bbmolla (specifically 315)?

the nullest of my day1 no-lynch pool
315 doesn't bother me

i don't like 315
being ok with both happening wagons is kinda meh and often comes from scum who don't care about who the lynch is on
(this si why i don't think he's scum with maryjo; he's sitting on her wagon rn and seems fine with it happening)

[skitter30]

townie: smpa, elements, salami, bynumber
nulltown: you
scumlean: bbmolla
idk: maryjo, probably scum
null: dick richards

followup:
what specifically makes you think scum!maryjo over lynchbait?
why haven't you moved your vote out of RVS?

didn't have a strong enough scumread to (i don't vote super much day1 till i get a strong enough scumread really)

her actions aren't really internally consistent and don't make much sense to me as coming from a coherent thought process, as highlighted by the thing i pointed out last night where i'm apparently partners with spam and elements for opposite reasons but also scummy for defending town!spam and town!salami. like holistically it sounds good but it doesn't really make much sense if you actually think about it; like if she thinks i'm scum with elements for criticizing him why did she drop that line when other people brought up the notion that i could be scum with spam and telling him? it doesn't seem to be a thought that's driving her reason for scumreading me, but rather it seems to be soemthing she's using to call me scummy.

ike i don't really get the vibe she actually *believes* most of what she's saying given that when you look at her stances holistically she's being fence-sitty and i don't really see consistent threads/trains of thought underlying most of her posts really

it's possible i'm missing those, and i know people don't like my questions but i use them to figure out the implications of what people have said and to see if what they're saying makes sense together as a whole and if they actually believe what they think

she's been ignoring most of my points/questions for a few irl days now (ie not just the last round of it) so i can't really see that if she's doing it

[skitter30]

i mean i'm not expecting you to drop everything irl and answer all my questions, but when you don't even acknowledge that i've asked them (i've @'ed you a few times for the same questions even) it does kinda seem like you're not planning on it
actually reading the last page again again was 'it won't be happening' a response to me or a response to 372? i initially read it as a response to me but reading it again i realized it might be a response to that post

if you can respond specifically to 354, 358 and i guess now 383 when you have a chance that would be great

[skitter30]

no; i was trying to get your attention; it doesn't give a notifiction or anything

thank!

[skitter30]

there's no reason he can't be scum with someone experienced
and he just posted dumb before getting a chance to be coached

this is fair

(although i imagine i would have posted in the scum pt before the game started to give tips and so on)

anyway that's not inherently my problem with maryjo's push, more the fact that she in the last day or so thinks that i'm both scummy for defending town!spam but also that i'm coaching him; there's not really progression between the two and obviously these don't make sense together

==

@spam you're starting to dip into that 'newbscum playing up inexperience' region for me

==

@IC
do scum get access to their chat before the game thread opens?

yeah, from when scum get their role pms usually (ie during confirmation) and in this game should just stay open throughout the game

[skitter30]

Fair enough, fair enough, i just don'r want this to disappear and get forgotten about

[skitter30]

while MJL, cby, and skitter could be scum, also in that order.

why cby?

[skitter30]

I can argue multiple perspectives because I’m aware that I don’t have all the pieces to the puzzle. I feel that making statements of assertion could block myself off from exploring alternate scenarios that might better fit the information that I have on hand. I’ve learned in this game that expressing that I can see two sides of the coin puts me at a disadvantage because people see it as being indecisive.

so the thing is that to me this belies a lack of conviction, of pov, of approaching the game from a consistent thought process

you're throwing out a bunch of scenarios wherein i might be scum, including various teams and various strategies i might be adapting, but i don't think you actually believe any of them. they're all theoretical possibilities to you that *could* be; i don't really get the vibe that you think any of them actually *are*

you seem to have a conclusion: i'm scum. and within that framework you're bringing up different points of what i might be doing, but you dont' seem to think that any of them are more likely than another. like it just doesn't make sense to me that you can really at once think that i might be scum with two different people for exactly opposite reasons. i think you're arguing possibilities that make me look bad, not actual opinions you hold.

i also dont' think that making assertions blocks you from exploring other scenarios; i do it all the time. the thing that's bothering me here is: you say X and Y are both possibilities, but you don't really pick a side or explain why you think one or the other is more likely.

If I said elsewhere that you were not present, please let post 330 stand. I acknowledge that you have been present, and I really appreciate the job you’re doing as IC. You’ve been very helpful to me and other newbies here.

i mean you were saying that i was not scumhunting; i was explaining that for the past couple of days that wasn't my priority for this game (yay i'm done moving now)

idk what you're trying to wrt kid gloves or what it means wrt my alignment for them to be off

Your being IC confused me at first. I didn’t fully understand the role and even though you said you’re here to play the game and achieve your wincon, I still imagined that you’d be handling us more delicately here than you would on a different part of the forum. I no longer think that’s the case.

ah ok
i'm being slightly more polite, less blunt, and a bit less aggressive than i often am (the latter is a function of moving + being ic both)

ie i don't want to make this game about *me*; when i'm not moving and i full effort a game i'm very good at making myself a *presence*; i get townread usually fairly quickly and my opinion often determines the direction of the game, but that's not really my goal for this game here, it's more to make sure you guys see what a game on this site looks like and to ensure that the game experience overall is a pleasant one.

i'm doing questions and dialogue-trees a bit more than i usually do also instead of being aggressive or super opinionated; new players sometimes approach things differently than older players and i want to give people more room to explain their pov because they may be doing something that i'd consider scummy in a vaccum but might not be scummy given how they view mafia in a general sense based on experience on other sites or irl etc

i'm answering questions and providing guidance wrt to site meta etc but i'm also playing the game and want to win; i'm doing both at the same time. i consider the former to be more important to this game tho; ie i'd rather help you guys acclimate to the game and the site and hopefully leave a positive impression of the site that prompts you to stick around than win; if changing my playstyle slightly to accommodate that gets me mislynched so be it (i mean not really; i hate being mislynched, but like i won't make a thing about it if it happens); if i don't have a lot of time i'll still skim and follow along and make sure i address any questions directed at me or any theory questions/definitions etc

like i want to win and i don't want to be mislynched but more important to me rn in this game is being a good ic

so it has affected my play, and i have toned down the aggression a bit, but idk if i'd go so far as to say that i've left the kid gloves off the whole time? idk i hope that explained how i'm approaching this

==

I explained above that I can see multiple possible outcomes. For right now, I’m focusing on you and not any scum partners you may or may not have.

quite a lot of your reasoning for why i'm scum is how i may or may not be treating potential partners - players you don't know the alignment of, mind you; in a general sense day1 pre-flip associatives (ie guessing the alignment of player B based on the alignment of player A when you don't yet know player A's alignment) is not such a great idea given that it's based on assumptions - like player A's alignment - that you dont' know to be true

==

If people feel the need to call me on that, when I flip green, remaining town can use my insight (good or bad) to formulate new hypotheses in light of the information gathered from a confirmed town's POV.

ok, so: you think that since the dayphase is dragging that a lynch on *someone* a good idea to end the day and get info from the flip and nk, is htat accurate?

if no, please correct me where i'm misunderstanding.
if yes, in the specific context of this game and previous wagons, who would you suggest the someone be in order to get the best info from flips?

(i'm not suggesting an info-based lynched here or that it's a good idea or that we should do this before people complain)

==

I don’t see you advancing town’s position and contributing to the scum hunting and I find that your primary objective seems to be distracting us and asking questions to make us second guess ourselves.

ok:
for the former, i'm not sure why you're assuming my lack of 'advancing town's position' or scumhunting is a function of my alignment and not, say, of being busy irl

for the latter: where do you see that my primary objective is to distract people or make people second-guess themselves? like what have i specifically done that makes you think i am purposefully doing this?

i know long post is long
this section in particular is important and i'd like you to address these two points specifically out of all the points i've made here

(i mean theoretically i'd like you to address all of them but like i'm very aware that i write a lot and said a lot and don't really expect people to go line by line through what i've said.)

==

Sorry for the delay, but delivered as promised.

tyty

i'm def cool with you taking your time at this stage of the game; sorry for being insistent about it and highlighting this; i wanted to make sure this dialogue continued and didn't fade away as people got distracted by other shiny objects

==

As a side note, regardless of what side you’re on, you’re doing a good job of ic’ing this game and I’m grateful for the direction and help you’ve provided. (But I still think you rolled scum this game)

tyty, this is important to me and i'm happy to hear this

[skitter30]

and now i need to vote you unforunately

VOTE: maryjo

[skitter30]

Buddying is probably not the right word. It definitely felt like you were posturing in the event that the MaryJo lynch had gone through (a strong possibility that it may have happened if the DR slot had shown up given that MaryJo already had 3 votes and both you and elements had stated your intent to vote for her). This signals to me that you knew MaryJo alignment, and were taking preparatory steps in shifting certain player's (myself included) mindsets for the next day.

If you're approaching your perspective that the Salami wagon was being driven by scumMaryJo, how does TTTT's vote read to you as coming from scum in any way?

I disagree that i'm posturing and setting up tomorrow's lynch; i havent really thought about it at all - i dont know who we're lynching today or whay they'll flip or who the nk will be, and all of those are vital factors in figuring out who's scum tomorrow. None of these things have happened yet, and i'm not figuring out tomorrow's lynch when i"m still figuring out my preferred lynch for *today*

(Also if i'm scum here i don't think i try to mislynch town!tttt, it's a lot easier to just nk him, no reasom to make things difficult for myself)

Maryjo's push was bad
At the time i thought tttt's vote was bad as well (my opinion on this has since changed).
It's day1, there arent any flips, and i'm not figuring out teams really rn. Both things were independantly bad so i called them out for it.
On balance thinking through tttt/maryjo interactions they probably are not scum together

[skitter30]

@Elements - your take on skitter v. maryjo?

I have scum reads/leans on both of them.
Skitter has been v/la and used that as an excuse for not pushing the game forwards or actively scum hunting as much as others. Could be true, hopefully now it's ended they can do this more and persuade my they are town. I'd rather not lynch a town IC day one again.

Things have settled down and i should ne more present now

[skitter30]

I'm still pretty great with my vote but a skitter vote also looks pretty nice

Popping in to say that you're chill with both leading wagons withiut doing anything else is scummy imo

(You prob aren't scum with maryjo tho)

[skitter30]

ok:
for the former, i'm not sure why you're assuming my lack of 'advancing town's position' or scumhunting is a function of my alignment and not, say, of being busy irl

for the latter: where do you see that my primary objective is to distract people or make people second-guess themselves? like what have i specifically done that makes you think i am purposefully doing this?

i know long post is long
this section in particular is important and i'd like you to address these two points specifically out of all the points i've made here

@maryjo can't tell if u saw this

[skitter30]

It's almost like you're scum letting us lynch MJL/skitter who you know are town.

Yeah i'm kinda getting this vibe too; that's why i don't think he and maryjo are really scum together and is making me kinda question the wisdom of a maryjo lynch rn; i might switch to bbmolla actually; this us the vibe i was getting from 315 and why i was asking people about it

[skitter30]

No, it isn't.
Maryjo is scummy; idk why you think i dont scumread her
Bbmolla is scummy
They arent scum together i'm pretty sure tho

Rn i prefer maryjo.
Bbmolla being cool with both of us is a bad look and scum-indicative - he doesnt actually care who the lynch is on. This makes maryjo a little more likely to be town to me but it's not because of her play, but because of how other people are treating her

Bbmolla are you usually this passive?

Also the fact that he's ok with *my* lynch isn't really the problem i'm having; i don't really care if he thinks that (notice how i'm not pushing you or elements rn; you both scumread me)
The problem is that he'w fine with both competing wagons with no prefeence really between the two of them (incidentally one of which happens to be on me; if he had said the samr thing about two other competing wagons, neithr of which were on me, i'd be making the same protest)

The lack of reads or preference or like caring who actually gets lynched so long as a lynch happens is scummy imo

[skitter30]

I get where you're coming from but that just seems like his playstyle from reading his games. On first glance yeah it seems scummy but he is an experienced player so I don't think he'd be so obvious about it if he really were scum? Maybe I am just overthinking it this game has exhausted me a little.

Idk, i've not played with him before; if i have time i'll look at some of his prior games to compare but i dont have a baseline for what his game usually looks rn

[skitter30]

I was sure I saw 4. Well... marching orders still stand. Skitter and Elements. Especially after that incredibly LAMIST post of his about how and when Mafia communicate during a game. Seriously? No call to do that after jumping on Spam for his LAMIST move in the beginning. Look at their interactions. Look at their defense strategy.

so like individually i townread this post but like holistically your thought processes make no sense to me
now i'm scum with elements again?

like your reasons for calling me scum have to do with who you think i may be partnered with at the time but like i still don't see why you think this is more likely than me/spam

like i don't get the transition from me/spam to me/elements .... like in the context of this post what's your read on spam? i can't tell

and again did you see 437? i can't tell because you haven't acknowledged it so ...
like when you don't acknowledge posts that i direct towards you and ask you to acknowledge, yes, it does make me think you're just deliberately ignoring the points i'm raising
you're clearly reading the thread and interacting with other people so like i kinda doubt that you just missed it

==

kinda losing the townreads on spam and salami tbh

==

“He has no preference even though he is voting one of the two he thinks is scum”

I’m still content with a Mary lynch.

I could live with a skitter lynch too. I’m not getting any sort of townvibes.

I'm still pretty great with my vote but a skitter vote also looks pretty nice

i mean you're basically saying you're fine with both lynches; that's the bit i find scummy

==

this post comes from town
anybody still voting MaryJo after this should be asahmed

i don't see it
it indicates that scum!her has an apparently fairly nuanced level of self-awareness that enables her to know how to write posts that don't sound scummy; it makes me doubt the genuineness of the posts that i have been townreading actually, especially the more LAMIST-y 'i'm fine with being lynched' ones

like she's basically saying that scum!her is self-aware enough to not sound scummy, which makes me more critical of posts that seem designed to tick all the boxes to make people think she's doing townie things (ie accepting her lynch, which didn't ever feel *real* to me)

==

actually i maybe retract the bbmolla scumread

[skitter30]

i def think you are making an effort but when you aren't acknowledging the posts i've made even just asking if you've seen what i've said it makes me think you're ignoring me given that you are definitely around and interacting with other people

if you could at least say in response to a post like 437 - 'yeah i saw it, i'll answer it at some point' or 'i'm not planning on answering that' i'd feel better because as is i can't tell if like you've seen it or not or are planning on addressing it or not (and then i'd ask why you aren't engaging in a dialogue with me etc)

if i knew that you were going to get around to it at some point i wouldn't keep bringing those posts up so much because as is i can't tell and i don't know how else to get you to acknowledge them/me other than to keep bringing it up until you respond in some way

[skitter30]

cby is still town

==

thx
so if I understand your scum case on me it's:
1. pocketing MaryJo

Is being in your pocket any fun? It might be fun, so I'd like to get that sorted out. Is it fun in there?

oh cool, now you're ignoring the posts where i point out you're ignoring me

==

hi urap2, looking forward to playing with you!

==

don't really have anything new to say
vastly prefer maryjo rn over either spam or urap2's slot

[skitter30]

Hey guys, I'm new, never played mafia online or in irl at all, but my friends said I should try this so here I am. I'm a bit confused by my role to be honest though, since I'm a Vanilla Townie (it's ok to say that, right?), does that mean I don't get to do anything? Sorry if it's a dumbb question, I've never played before like I said, so I want to find out what I can. Great to get started with you guys, sure this'll be heaps of fun!

does the enthusiasm continue through the game?

nope, it dropped off significantly since then
he's claiming being busy irl but he hasn't said anything of substance ... in like days iirc; i've basically lost the townread i had on him early game

[skitter30]

I didn't realise quite how apathetic he is.

Given my vote has done literally nothing I'll move it back.
VOTE: skitter

ok let's talk about this, why are you scumreading me again?

[skitter30]

hey urap have you had any scumgames onsite?

[skitter30]

hey urap have you had any scumgames onsite?

yeah I have 5 completed games and an ongoing game that i'm dead in. all town games - 4 of which are newbies.

Enjoy. I really recommend 1905 - not so much for meta because I was purposefully acting scummy but because... well because I was a bad ass in it.

cool cool; i low-key followed one of the newbie i think and i remember the worst was really impressed by you (i think you were a cop in that one? actually maybe that's 1905 idk); i might go back and check it out more deeply, wanted to know if you have any scumgames for comparison

[skitter30]

again if you could just say something like: i see your post and i'll get to it tomorrow

cuz then i'll at least know that it's on your radar

[skitter30]

kinda liking urap's posting thus far tbh

[skitter30]

yeah i kinda was at that point but i think i got most of the main points?
i didn't really have a chance to go back and reread the first ten pages or so again tho

[skitter30]

oh interesting
you used the same read on both of us
i wonder if this is ai one way or another
probably not?

not really a read
more trying to form a baseline of how much mafia experience you have; that's relevant to how i sort people

[skitter30]

yeah there were only eight minutes in between the two posts, that's why they're townie imo

and uh no not really
i don't remember what i was thinking with elements at the time or why i asked that just then, i'll check the context again after i write this post

for you your slot was ~nullscum because of at least one person picking up a role pm and then flaking so i wanted to know if you had any scumgames that i would be able to compare this game too

aside from that, your catchup is pretty townie (you're picking up on a lot of things i noticed at the time; i kinda like that you're mirroring a thought process that i know to be town); asking for scumgames and thinking your catchup is lowkey townie aren't really related to each other

[skitter30]

elements sounded pretty townie in his posts on ~ the third page and i was wondering how broad of a scumrange he had; i was thinking that in the absence of a strong-ish scumgame a lot of those posts probably came from town; they were fairly nuanced in a way that newbscum sometimes find hard to fake

[skitter30]

they both had posts that i remember thinking were fairly townie; i was still kinda skimming at that point so i don't remember the posts offhand but i'll go back and try to pull them up

still really think cby is town
salami not so much anymore

[skitter30]

for salami:
i liked the effort in 121 and how he was trying to pull his thoughts together; it had a certain level of nuance that i liked for that stage of the game
at the time i also thought his reaction to maryjo's push on him for sounding experienced was fairly townie but reading it through again i'm not seeing those same vibes as much ( i think i specifically liked 145, but again, not getting those vibes anymore)

for cby:
just a collection of a bunch of small townie things he's doing: he's persistant about getting answers to his questions; he's making good observations, he's asking good, pointed questions; he has the right approach wrt waiting for a replacement before dealing with the empty slot

none of these things are so strongly townie by themselves but collectively he's just kinda townie for just doing a lot of townie things if that makes sense

(i'm trying to specifically remember what i was thinking circa post 253, when i made the post you quoted)

[skitter30]

i elaborated on that later, but no, i don't get the vibe that she's being paranoid and jumping back and forth between different theories; i don't think she really believes much of anything she's saying honestly

she's coming up with a lot of possibilities for what scum!me's agenda is or who i may be partnered with but there's like no ... convicntion behind any of it. there's no progression from one stance ot the next, nothing really prompting any of these changes. i don't see a coherent thought process really threading through her iso.

it's a list of possibilities of for what scum!me might be doing but her thoughts don't really track consistently across her posts - if i'm scum with elemetns i don't seriously believe she thinks i might also be scum with spam instead; the two dont' make sense together and it just doesn't seem like a real thought: there's no progression to get from a to b and and there's no opinion on which one is more likely.

like if she really thinks i'm scum with elements i'd expect to see a thought process like: oh wait actually after reading post X i'm not sure how likely that pairing is, maybe skitter/spam makes more sense; and after that thinking skitter/spam is a thing.

i just don't see that with her. i don't see how her thought process is evolving or why. her conclusions just change but there isn't like a thought process i can follow to explain it. overall i don't get how she's approaching this game or where her thoughts are coming from.

pedit: this is for a couple of posts up

[skitter30]

Yeah, I read your follow up posts. You stick to your guns, and I like that (personality-wise, not alignment). I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this for now.

eh fair enough
i really really think she's scum tho and she's my preferred lynch today for all the reasons elaborated upon before

i'll compromise at deadline if i have to but like that's not ideal for me rn, so until then i'll just keep repeating the fact that i think she's quite scummy

i'll take another look at salami tomorrow and/or over the weekend though to try to resort him

[skitter30]

oh also i think you're prob town, or at least townie enough hat i'm not remotely interested in lynching you today

[skitter30]

and so i don't forget: salami/urap is not a thing imo

[skitter30]

omg, Skitter. I hate to ask this of you, but I'm getting turned around in my reply to you. Can you please, in a very brief narrative, tell me what it is that you want me to address? I'm looking at your questions and I see replies and replies with quotes and more replies and even more replies with even more quotes and I keep thinking that i've already tried to address your points. In like 3 or 4 sentences can you just say what you want me to answer? I've got all the data in front of me, I just can't figure out what you're asking that I haven't already answered. (sorry!)

I don’t see you advancing town’s position and contributing to the scum hunting and I find that your primary objective seems to be distracting us and asking questions to make us second guess ourselves.

ok:
for the former, i'm not sure why you're assuming my lack of 'advancing town's position' or scumhunting is a function of my alignment and not, say, of being busy irl

for the latter: where do you see that my primary objective is to distract people or make people second-guess themselves? like what have i specifically done that makes you think i am purposefully doing this?

^^^^ this

[skitter30]

skitter being on

everyone's scumlist is a bit concerning

but honestly that might just be because even their partner can't pretend that they look town

yeah this is a thing; noticed this a few days back

also given the pl and the game i'm pretty sure that in most teams involving me i'm the scum that tries to endgame most of the time

I think they're both scum. I voted skitter over NMSA because I think she would be more of a hassle for town to deal with. I was also more confident on my read on skitter because two strong town reads in elements and maryjo were already voting her.
NMSA not being around to address my case on him makes it kinda pointless to switch my vote to him.

this is still really town
(and yeah i'll make you work for my mislynch at least )

==

strongtown: urap, elements, cby
nulltown: tttt
idk: nmspa, salami
scumlean: bbmolla
scum: maryjo

i'll get to relooking at salami over the weekend

[skitter30]

I would still think that if you’re town, you’d be looking at various possibilities. I think you’d be advancing town’s objective but you’re instead asking questions that are making us second guess ourselves. Other active posters are throwing out ideas and trying to construct a narrative. You’re not really participating in that. I feel like you’re waving your hand with a shiny object to distract people from what’s really going on. I don’t know what’s going on, but I do not feel that you’re contributing to solving the mystery.

i don't know why you think asking questions is not advancing town's objectives
you've still never shown how or where i'm making people second-guess themselves; it's a baseless accusation that i've tried to get you to quantify about three times but you haven't. 'trying to make people second guess themselves' does'nt actually, like, mean anything if you can't point to specific instances where you think i'm doing that

why am i not throwing out ideas? i'm sharing, quite vocally mind you, that i think you're scum; you've done nothing to change my opinion which is why i'm being stubborn on this.

what am i distracting from? and i mean, like, from you're pov, if you're town, no, i haven't found scum, sure. from *my* pov tho, you've done nothing to chagne my mind; from *my* pov, i think i found scum and i'm trying to make highlight this, and i'm not sure why you think from *my* pov i'm not scumhunting

Your absence at the start of the game was very suspicious for me because I didn’t fully realize how long these day phases were. It was odd to me that you’d start a game that you’re ic’ing in that you'd basically miss what I expected would be the first two day phases. Possibly three. I see now that the day phases are forever and a day, so your V/LA is explained to my satisfaction.

well, it's more like i signed up for the ic queue like a month ago, forgot about it, and didn't realize that my turn would come up the weekend i was moving till i got a role pm

Now you’re zeroed in on me and I don’t see you this focused anywhere else. You say I’m sitting on fences and that I lack conviction and internal consistency, but that’s because I’m trying to blindly put pieces together that and I really don’t know where the pieces fit. You don’t seem like you’re blind at all. You are very strong in your convictions and that only makes good sense to me if you’re scum. The only other explanation would be that your town with a penchant for tunnel vision. Both reasons are good for voting for you. We either take out the scum, or we take out the town who, in my opinion, could possibly tunnel the wrong people down the road.

yep, i'm being stubborn about it because i think you're scum. i think i found scum; i see little reason to change my vote or my push (i will at deadline etc).

my point wrt you sitting on fences is that you just never really ... pick a side. you don't really seem to think anything is more likely than anything else; that's the problem i'm having. you leave yourself very very very open to changing your mind and voting elsewhere. it's not impossible to come from town, but i aassociate it with scum much more

i do get tunneled a lot actually; i try to not, like, do that; it's not easy for me to talk myself out of it, usually i need someone to talk me out of being tunneled
i acknowledge that i might be tunneled here. i don't think i am tho.
your blaseness for lynching townies who get tunneled is actually quite bad imo
it's also really really really hard for me to take being stubborn as scum
(i would have said i can't fake my push on you but i think that's no longer completely accurate given my last scum game that ended last week; i think i can *probably* fake this push? It's like ridiculously difficult for me tho)

[skitter30]

Would not lynch: urap, cby, myself
Would lynch: MJL, Salami, skitter
Not sure: elements, TTTT, BBmolla

VOTE: skitter30 because we're getting kinda close to the deadline and we need a lynch. I'm fine with this one, and most other people seem to be too.

a) noting that everyone in your would lynch pile is pretty much consensus scumreads rn
b) are you basically voting me because of the deadline?
c) what do you think of the fact that i'm voting maryjo and she is(was?) voting me?

[skitter30]

anybody have insight into Skitter's scum meta?

i have lots of insight
obvs my opinion is biased but like i'll answer questions if you like

[skitter30]

Okay, so the chardonnay was spectacular. Muchas gracias. Are we shifting this wagon over to Salami then?

Oh, damn it. I just tried to get you fast tracked through the system, Urap, but security has red-flagged you. As much as I like you, security hasn't yet cleared you to direct my vote. Apparently you "still could be Skitter's lost scum partner" if she's actually scum. Bah. Best to let the system do its thing then.

a) not sure why you're willing to move your vote off of me and onto salami here; feels like you're looking for wagons to join
b) why are you willing to listen to urap in 665 but take that back in 668?
c) is there a particular reason why urap could be my scum-buddy? ie is there something that specifically makes you think urap/skitter or are you just saying that it's theoretically possible he's my partner?

(i'd like these to be ansered but given previous interactions i don't particularly expect that to happen; i'm still noting my thoughts on these posts tho)

[skitter30]

fair enough, fair enough lol

[skitter30]

I welcome the investigation.

also feels lamist

[skitter30]

hey skitter silly question - are you an alt of TW?

no but it's hilarious that you'd think so (we have wildly different playstyles)
we play a lot of games together tho and we're friends

[skitter30]

skitter scum does not make sense with this vote count

+1

[skitter30]

Like, am I just supposed to ignore all of her content in favour of a votecount with no confirmed flips?

can we talk about what exactly you don't like about my content?

[skitter30]

urap is basically always town in this playlist and gamestate imo, for protesting the wagon on me - literally no reason to do that if you're scum here; i'm a great mislynch for you all lined up when you repped in, no reason to try to shift it off

the interaction between urap + cby makes me think they're both town imo

[skitter30]

MaryJoLisa: Probably scum. Not enough content, just trying to defend herself.

I've contributed plenty of content. I found this handy tool at the bottom right of the screen. I have 118 points and I've been actively pushing for a Skitter lynch and providing reasoning for my thought process. Start with Post 330 and read on from there. If I've defended myself, it's probably more of an explanation as to what I'm thinking rather than an actual defense because I'm of the position that a lynch

*any lynch* will provide town with the necessary context to move forward.

i mean, yeah, you can look at a mislynch that way
i'd much rather a scum lynch tho

[skitter30]

the walls are a personality thing, right? She said so in this thread and it's super easy to confirm. she makes catchup walls asking tons of questions

yeah, personality thing
walls are more likely to come from scum!me; i avoid real-time literally as much as possible as scum because i hate it

but town!me uses walls *a lot* too, especially if i'm catching up on a few pages
(it's either walls or spamming as a i catch up like i'm doing rn but since everyone here hate the walls i figured i'd try something different)

like this is a pretty easy thing to check by looking at an iso of any previous game of me

[skitter30]

I believe I have been answering her questions. I think she just doesn't like or accept the answers I provide. But I have been answering, and I have been providing what I think are lengthy responses that do actually address the questions she's asking.

Part of me thinks she's asking over and over to give the illusion that i'm not answering.

yeah, cuz the answers you give are kinda vague and require followup

and i think theh last line is kinda unfair given that you were literally not acknowledging my posts for several irl days; if you'd have acknowledged them in some way i wouldn't have had to keep asking you about them

[skitter30]

So we've got 4 on Salami, we need 5. I'm the hold out, then correct? And if I change my vote, I'm supposed to state my intent to hammer?

Statement of intent to hammer:

I'm planning on pounding the Salami.

i have no idea why you're interested in voting salami here

[skitter30]

[4] Salami : u r a person 2 607, TTTT 660, Elements 708, cbynumber 717

this is pretty good wagon
i townread everyone except maybe tttt

[skitter30]

a) not sure why you're willing to move your vote off of me and onto salami here; feels like you're looking for wagons to join
b) why are you willing to listen to urap in 665 but take that back in 668?
c) is there a particular reason why urap could be my scum-buddy? ie is there something that specifically makes you think urap/skitter or are you just saying that it's theoretically possible he's my partner?

(i'd like these to be ansered but given previous interactions i don't particularly expect that to happen; i'm still noting my thoughts on these posts tho)

I am most definitely looking for a wagon to join, but the reasons are not what I think you're expecting.

There is no particular reason why Urap could be your scum buddy other than that Urap had a 22% chance of having drawn a scum card just like the rest of us. From my POV, of course, that's a 25% chance, but either way, because it is a non-zero value it should be considered.

Salami was on my radar anyway and voting him ends the day phase. Whether I get NK'ed, investigated, or whatever during the night phase, the game gets to move forward with useful evidence.

i mean not listening to urap's salami push on the basis that he might mechanically be scum with me by virtue of being in the game (ie since everyone has a 2/9 chance of being scum) when he hasn't done anything to make you think he's acting in a scummy way is kinda silly and makes me think your reads aren't real - your actions aren't following the reads you claim you have, but are rather following the theoretical probabiliyt that all players in this game have some chance of being scummy, evne though you say you don't think urap is behaving this way.

i think scum (who have to make up all their reads -> ie their reads aren't real) are more likely to approach the game this way than town, who's actions usually are a manifestation of real thoguths they're having

i have no idea why you want a salami lynch other than to end the day

[skitter30]

ok i'm caught up.
need to do a couple of other things, will come back at some point tonight to go through salami's iso

[skitter30]

lmao you're just lying in wait to get those nice pagetop vcs lol

[skitter30]

i endorse this product and/or service
ok i'm going to skim salami now

[skitter30]

ok salami:

121 - still think this was a good post for that stage of the game; i liked how he was trying to get his reads together and articulate them

i kinda have a tin-foil-y theory of maryjo/salami but skimming his iso i'm not sure how well that works given that she tried to start a wagon on him fairly early on; not sure if that's a push on a partner actually as a i read through it again. posts like 302 reinforce that tho

145 - top bit is kinda meh. he thinks elements is voting him for catching scum!him super early in the game?

229 - not entirely following why he's unvoting elements there, or why he's listening to the person he's voting to prompt him to unvote.

316 - pretty sure i asked but never got a resposne to why he thought those posts of bbmolla's were townie

338 - agree with this

444 - still don't like this post, but i explained why in great detail at the time

==

ok overall: don't get the townie vibes from his iso that i had in real time as things developed
he's kinda null rn actually
he isn't townie. i don't find him scummy either
i'd vote there at deadline, i think the wagon is good; the only vote i'm not townreading is tttt
his tttt vote is kinda meh but i can see it coming from newbscum in an omgus kind of way

much much much prefer maryjo tho

[skitter30]

his tttt vote is kinda meh but i can see it coming from newbscum in an omgus kind of way

i meant i could see it coming from newbtown actually here

that post in particular actually did not fuel my maryjo/salami tin-foil vibes

it was more how she's being very very willing to hop on that wagon despite not having articulated a read on him
either that or she's just looking for a mislynch to end the day

but i don't like how cool she is with salami honestly

[skitter30]

the 'protocol' so to speak for a hammer is:
-> a wagon gets to l-1
-> someone gives intent to hammer
-> the person getting wagoned claims
-> we evaluate the claim and determine whether or not it's credible or a reason to not lynch them

hammering without a claim is a big no-no
it happens sometimes anyways, especially if it's super close to deadline; there's more leeway for a quickhammer or a hammer without a claim if it's literally minutes before deadline

there's nothing mechanically stopping you from hammering rn but i would strongly advise you not to do so before we get a claim

people who lolhammer can expect to get *a lot* of flak the next day; i personally consider it to be incredibly scummy (for a few players nai because they do it all the time, but i wish they wouldn't)

[skitter30]

did your previous site use plurarily lynch?

(ie the person with the most votes at deadline gets lynched?)

[skitter30]

got it got it

i personally like the longer dayphases much more, i can't really commit to being around and online for that short of a timeframe; i like knowing that if i'm busy on, say, monday i'll have a few days to catch up before i need to make nay decisions

[skitter30]

I was gonna do it, I just didn't want to breach the cultural norms and catch flak for it.

I dont get it
You dont want to hammer yourself because you dont want to get the flak for it, but you're fine with tttt doing it?

[skitter30]

I wouldn't be surprised either way, but I favor green.

Then why are you ok with a hammer?

[skitter30]

And why werent you willing to vote him yourself?
Kinda felt like you were itching to do so but didnt becuase you didn't want to look bad, but that you're happy someone else did it for you

[skitter30]

Ok, what do you think of tttt's vote then?

[skitter30]

I am. I wouldn't have voted there and would have waited for a replacement and a claim.

Would you have been willing to be the fourth vote on that wagon?

[skitter30]

tbh mj narrative post hammer checks out

not saying the slot is town, but this particular interaction seems pretty nai

Eh i dont like that she isnt willing to hammer
Not sure if it's scummy tho?

[skitter30]

MJ was looking for permission to hammer

This

Ie i meant that she wasnt willing to do it without permission but obviously wants a hammer to happen

[skitter30]

I think she'd prob be more aware of the vc on a partner tho

[skitter30]

Eh this was kinda protracted, doesnt feel fake to me

@maryjo tttt was already on the wagon, he didnt hammer, and were not in twilight

[skitter30]

I guess what i dont like here is that she wanted something to happen but didnt do it because of bad optics
(Doesnt help that she thinks he might flip green)

Like i guess its plausible that she really does value ending the day over prioritizing a scumflip and preventing lynching prs but like this mindset is very foreign to me and i dont like it

[skitter30]

Largely agree with urap's post above, his cop pool is good (good pool for neapolitans too), doc should try to save someone.

If a scum flips today imo its ok to use a jk ability to try to block scum, but if there's two scum a jk should be used like a doc imo

[skitter30]

Yeah that's fair

[skitter30]

I personally would add tttt to the cop-check pool too

[skitter30]

@MJ don't feel bad. You'll likely never be tricked like this again ;P

I wasn't tricked. I was told by the ic not to do it. I trusted the ic's word because I believed that she was supposed to give me honest answers to help newbies out and I'm trying to play a clean game by the rules and the culture that exists on this forum.

i mean i don't think i tricked you, i didn't say that salami was hammered. i did kinda let you believe it for about ten minutes or so

i strongly believe that we should get a claim before hammering and would much rather wait for a replacement before that happens; i think that's better play all around because for all i know salami is a pr that just got hammered because we didn't give the slot time to claim so

[skitter30]

I really want NotMy and BB to spill their guts about a potential Salami lynch

Salami's on my scumlist, it doesn't look like skitter is the best option now that the wagon is gone, so

I'm fine hammering there

(bolded for intent). If he flips town, then MJL is next on my list. Until one of us hammers Salami, VOTE: MJL. If Salami goes down, then we finally get info, so I'm excited there.

P-edit: or not, there's the hammer I believe.

why are you scmreading salami?
why were you interested in wagoning me?

[skitter30]

and why are you voting mjl now if you're fine hammering salami?

[skitter30]

is there some part of what i said that was confusing or that you think i mislead you about?

we skipped the 'person getting wagoned claims' part, which i think is important and i dont' like to skip it if it at all possible
people are apparently fine with it here but i dont' like it

[skitter30]

@nmsa: who do you think is the scummiest player rn in {me/maryjo/salami}?

[skitter30]

@skitter
if you are town
I need your help here
NotMy or BB?
and why?

elements and cby are town; you're probably town but i'm not as solid on that as on those two
i'm also not convinced of town!maryjo but i'm willing to consider the possibility that i may be tunneled. i don't like that she was itching to get on that wagon when she wasn't scumreading salami; at the same time, i think she *probably* doesn't repeatedly forget the vc on a partner
i'm not comfortable calling her town but i'll drop it for now
if people bussed on that wagon it's you or maryjo imo

i like that you called bbmolla out on the self-vote; i was going to do that but you did it first. honestly, it's a little ballsy of scum!him to promise to self-vote in the event that his partner flips scum, while watching the wagon build and refusing to participate in it; honetly my gut says that whole interaction doesn't come from scum.

wrt nmsa's 661 - i actually don't have much of a problem with that post inherently: i can see newbscum trying to stave off a wagon on their partner. i can also see newbtown being concerned about the vc and wanting to make sure a lynch happened and prioritizing *a lynch* that's more viable over a scum lynch that he thinks is less likely to happen.
i find the deadline excuse to be a little bit shaky tho given that there were a few days left till deadline at that point

however, i find 816 to be worse - he's scumread is at L-1 and he votes the maryjo wagon, which, of course, i am the only person on at that point. to me that feels more like trying to build a cw than 661 given that he's completely willing to hammer but chooses not to and maryjo wasn't really happening at that point. he also completely ignores the fake-hammer thing.

[skitter30]

VOTE: not my spam account

[skitter30]

oh ffs i was in middle of writing a post and was going to unvote to prevent a lolhammer

[skitter30]

what on earth was that for

[skitter30]

there's no literal rule against lolhammering but ffs why would you want to end the day 8 hours after it started
we were not remotely ready for a lynch to happen yet

[skitter30]

and without a claim too

[skitter30]

there is nothing mechanically preventing you from lolhammering but that was a godawful hammer and now i'm more than a little bit annoyed ffs

[skitter30]

Experienced players led me to think that there is indeed a social culture of not quick hammering a vote,

yes this is a thing
there's literally no reason to lolhammer 8 hours into a day before getting a claim when someone isn't like literally mechanically guilty

a day before deadline on a consensus lynch is completely different from what you just did

[skitter30]

like do you think i'm misleading you about the intent/claim/hammer thing?

[skitter30]

It turned out in town's benefit, but from that interaction I can conclude that my fellow players either overemphasized the importance of this intent to hammer culture, or made it up outright.

like really?

[skitter30]

like do you think i'm misleading you about the intent/claim/hammer thing?

if you're town here i really do want an answer to this

[skitter30]

@nmsa you're online so you might as well tell us if the game ended tbh

[skitter30]

well that's that
i guess that's not the worst outcome
gg town

[skitter30]

what was your motivation for your first post?
and did you already know that claiming that early wasn't really a thing

[skitter30]

Also, this is technically my first game of forum mafia, so YEET I played like trash but that ending was worth the loss to witness. Great introduction to actual forum play for me, far more fun than my trash irl group, great playing with y'all. TTTT is MVP for fantastic instincts and scumhuntning, wish I could stay for more to learn how to do it properly. MJL, watch out, I'm voting you the next game we play together. Time to see if there's any RMM in signups now, l8ter.

i think you did pretty well for your first game actually! and i'm happy you had a good time!

[skitter30]

wow my reads were god-awful this game

[skitter30]

Please tell me you weren't a VT that I wasted a roleblock on last night.

I was Neapolitan
Good roleblock!

who did you check?

[skitter30]

i still don't think your first post was inherently scummy tbh, it def could have come from new-town imo
you did start falling into fairly common newb-scum patterns of playing up the inexperience and relying on that to explain why you 'didn't understnad what was going on' or 'why you couldn't form reads' tho starting ~midday1

i did enjoy playing with you and hope to see you in more games!

[skitter30]

Please tell me you weren't a VT that I wasted a roleblock on last night.

I was Neapolitan
Good roleblock!

who did you check?

you
our reads were so out of sync

yeah i figured
i'm not usually this bad, i'm just going to blame it on moving over the course of day 1

[skitter30]

it really is tough for scum when both slots are new players
especially when town starts finding each other on day1

^^^^^^ agree; i had that in my first game here and it was super hard

they're changing the newbie game format (changed already i think? starting with game 1917 i think) so that there's going to be 3-4 ses and no ics which might help with this a bit

[skitter30]

overall i quite enjoyed this game and playing with you lot, and i hope to see you around in more games!

urap you played spectacularly imo

[skitter30]

wait hold up he claimed VT first post

disregard everything

lmao i completely forgot that

[skitter30]

i'm not usually this bad, i'm just going to blame it on moving over the course of day 1

it happens
in my last IC game I was much worse than you were here (Elements can vouch for that)

indeed it does
wish i hadn't gotten tunneled tho, that wasn't super great of me

[skitter30]

thanks nsg!
i, uh, did not do a very good job at using the ic pt, so i guess if anyone wants me to give feedback or whatever lmk

@maryjo sorry for getting tunneled, i was lowkey aware that that was a thing i might be doing but i kinda ignored it until like today irl when the new day started, so sorry about that

i guess i do still want to know if you think i was purposefully misleading you because i was not, i answered the l-1/intent/claim/hammer thing as truthfully and as accurately as i know how to; i very very very strongly believe that lolhammering is not a good idea and would have pushed for your lynch tomorrow if spam had flipped town; i belive it's very important to get a claim whenever possible, and that this should be waived only in the event that deadline is like imminently approaching (ie like within hours or mintues)

i guess if you're still confused about this lmk so we can talk about it mroe

[skitter30]

also reading the mod pt:

i apologize if i did anything that you made you feel cheated or tricked. i did my best to convey what i undertand to be site meta wrt l1-intent-claim-hammer. people don't always listen to that but i did my best to explain what the regular site meta is.

if you feel like i mislead you or took advantage of your being a newer player please let me know so we can talk about it, because that was not my intent in any way.

[skitter30]

Skitter, I saw that you /in'd for nsg's mini theme and I am stoked to see you there! You seem like good people

tyty

i greatly enjoyed playing with you too, and was super impressed by your townplay!

i might have to /out due to irl stuff but i hope i can play

[skitter30]

i guess the general policy is: l-1, intent, claim, hammer

there are nuances and occasions where getting a claim might be skipped (imminent deadline approaching and a lynch needs to happen). and i guess when the four consensus townreads are already on a wagon and just want the day to end already and are fine with a hammer happening. in that scenario, if someone just hammers they'd get less flak than randomly lolhammering before people were ready for the day to end. that's why people didn't complain too much at the start of day two, but were pretty upset with how day2 ended - people were kinda expecting day1 to end soonish so the hammer without a claim, while not great, was not the worst thing you could have done, while day2 was still in its very early stages and nobody was really expecting the day to end at that point, which is why i was annoyed.

and i guess these are all nuances that you pick up after playign a bunch of games; the general rule of thumb is: l-1, intent, claim, hammer. i would not have hammered salami there without getting a claim since we definitely had time to get one barring him just dissappearing (in which case he prob woudl have gotten hammered without a claim). it ended up working out but i don't think that's ideal play

idk i hope that kinda made sense

(i don't really count tttt's fake-hammer as being a hammer/intent for the purpose of this discussion because he was already on the wagon and his vote didn't do actually do anything)

and yeah, sorry for the tunneling, i do that sometimes :/
and i do apologize if you feel like i tricked you, i def did not do that on purpose and did not mean to make you feel that way :/
but i'm glad that i was able to help tho

p-edit i didn't read urap's post

[skitter30]

no they don't, that one happens to be a bit of a common one that i want to say a player named irrelephant put together that i stole and tweaked a bit

[skitter30]

(at least, i stole it from irrrelephant, i don't know if he originally put it together)