Anime U-Pick: King Size [SEASON FINALE...?]

[mastina]

(Mind you, now that I think about it, there's a funny parallel between Biochemistry and this game. Aside from the "everyone's in a neighborhood" aspect. I'll say what it is in the neighborhood PT.)

[Joan of Arc]

non point
okay, its after the vedith lynch so its not part of his stalling posts
but the overall point remains

Well, you're wrong. I am not gonna say why, but you are, and any attempts to try and convince me otherwise would be summarily ignored by me.

[Near x Mello]

good talk as always

[Joan of Arc]

good talk as always

That's you. That's what you'd do in a nutshell. This is a reminder that I can do it too. Two can play that game.

Now, if you'd excuse me, I gotta go. I am DA trash for DA thing. Lalalalala.

[Joan of Arc]

All of this is giving me a headache, so



ILU :3

[mastina]

lets actually remember who drixx scumread and wanted lynched, shall we?

And let's then put that into context.

I have gone on record, multiple times, and can quote from multiple sources.

Both of these things.

1: You don't kill someone when they're right about you; you kill them when they are wrong about you. At least one fucking person already argued that this is why I killed Ankamius, but you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Either I didn't nightkill Drixx because he was right about me...or I didn't kill Ankamius because she was wrong about me. I can't have done both, because they contradict each other in modus operandi. And when I make kills, I strictly adhere to the same kill pattern throughout the game.

If I killed Drixx for being right on me, then my N2 nightkill would've been someone who was right--not wrong.

If I killed Ankamius because she was wrong about me (and this is my modus operandi, mind you), then...I couldn't have killed Drixx because he was scumreading me.

2: Fuck PRs, you don't kill people because of them. You kill the players who are most threatening. You kill the players who are most likely to, across the game, cause the most damage.

And Drixx is not such a player.
Drixx, when using logic based around mechanics, is on par with Ellibereth in being convincing, sure. I'll give him that--
But only when utilizing that logic based around mechanics.
When based on logic around gameplay, Drixx has charisma arguably worse than Creature.

Drixx had no mechanical reasons to read me, but DID have mechanical reasons to scumread Almost50.
Drixx's scumread on me from play was thus worth jacksquat. It meant absolutely nothing, because Drixx scumreading someone off of play is as harmless as harmless comes. I'd kill a fucking nobody that scumreads me over Drixx scumreading me 100% of the time, because I put that little stock in his ability to get me lynched off of play.

Drixx is not a player I consider a threat early-on. Yes, his mechanical play is on par with Cerb's, which is why their hydra is devastating in the long-term. But he only gets strong when he's able to utilize those mechanics to the fullest--and with him forced to claim on D1, he neutered his usefulness. He no longer had the ability to play traps. He no longer had the ability to utilize a lack of knowledge about his role to maximum effect. He no longer had the ability to make the most of his role.

And without the ability to make the most of his role.
With his role effectively neutralized by way of him claiming it.
He was no fucking threat mechanics-wise.
The only way I'd have any way of judging his threat level beyond that was if I had a scumbuddy that had access to his neighborhood, to judge if he were able to manipulate the OTHERS' roles in there...

...Except...
...Vedith was dead by N1; even if he was a member of that 'hood (I don't remember), he couldn't feed me anything.
Robert wasn't a member of that 'hood.

And the only surviving members of that 'hood are, entirely, outside of the POE pool right now. (Joan and Pink Ball are both borderline-conftown right now.) So unless you think I'm scum with them.
Or unless you think I'm scum with Almost50-who-can-apparently-read-there (in which case, just fucking lynch Almost50).

I had no way of knowing if he was being useful in there or not.

Without me knowing if he was being useful in there or not.
I wouldn't have any way of thinking him more threatening than normal.
I'd have him as LESS than his baseline threat.
His role known, his mechanical play options limited, him being a mechanics-based player?

He was a fucking non-threat. There was no way I would have focused on him, when there were far better kills to make.

Mind you, I wouldn't nightkill someone I thought would be lynched...but I would nightkill players like Spike and Jet, who were obvtown to me at the time of N1. That's the highest-profile kill I could make (because the other high-profile kills, Near x Mello, Reasonably Psychotic, and Almost50 were mislynchable at the time, or so scumastina would believe), but I could also kill players I didn't have much influence over. Elena Fisher was a viable kill because I had her as a townread, I thought she wasn't a mislynch option at the time, and I know her to be a reasonably competent scumhunter. I may have avoided it because she was in my neighborhood, though--the same reason I wouldn't kill Dunnstral or Torque.

But you know who I could kill?

I could have killed Chito and Yuuri--a basically universal townread, who was a strong slot that was the main contributor to lynching Vedith. If Chito and Yuuri lynched one scum, what's to stop them from lynching another? That'd make them a high kill priority.

I could have killed Clemency, because I would have known that Clemency was likely gambiting, and justified it as a low-info kill on a universal townread.

I could have killed Joan of Arc--in fact, this is an incredibly likely nightkill for me. I respect Joan's scumhunting skills, and when she locks onto you, she's a royal pain to have. She was widely townread, and would be the definition of a low-info kill.

I could have strongman killed Pink Ball--in fact, knowing that Robert was likely to get lynched and that the strongman shot was not long for the world, this is the action I'd go for.

Pink Ball fucking #REKT me the last time we met, in mystery box of silver. He CRUSHED the scumteam, decisively nailing us to a T and earning a status as a "must kill" from me right then and there. Yes, Pink Ball claimed bulletproof here, but with a strongman, it'd be fucking worth it to take him out of the game, because D1 made him an impossible mislynch, the worst of the worst; unkillable conftown otherwise.

Drixx wouldn't even rate in my top five kills. Maybe he'd be like kill #6 on my list of high-priority threats. But I was absolutely not killing him N1.

[mastina]

When based on logic around gameplay, Drixx has charisma arguably worse than Creature.

And not only does he lack that charisma, but his play-based reads are also town par--they're nothing above average.

And average town is still shitty. Average town is "maybe catches one scum if they're lucky, and if they're really lucky, two", pretty much--and when using gameplay-based reasoning rather than mechanics-based reasoning, that is the level of play I ascribe to Drixx.

So I don't consider him a threat.

Him being suspicious of me from gameplay reasons was barely worth a footnote.

It certainly wasn't worth a nightkill.

Now, him being suspicious of someone from a role reason, from a mechanical viewpoint of the game...
...THAT is an entirely different thing altogether. THAT is a threat. THAT is where he specializes in fucking scum over. And he was on the right track...if you assume that Almost50 was scum.

[mastina]

(Also sorry Drixx, you're probably fuming about this description of you, but it's true; I consider you a mechanics-based threat; in that department, only Cerb rivals your skills there and you are literally one of the best players on site in that regard. But on gameplay metrics other than mechanics, you just don't register. Sorry if that offends you, but it's just...you have a specialty, mechanics, where you thrive; outside of that specialty you're just. not. notable. At least not to scumastina.)

[Joan of Arc]

Thanks for that, by the way.

[Reasonably Psychotic]

@Mastina: go reread SNs flip, please and thank you.

I'd like to be rated in all metrics as town! Please put that as a priority on par with explaining why you wouldnt nk drixx.

-Cerb

[Torque]

@Mastina
What is this strongman shot you're talking about

wow you won't even consider me to nk just b.c. neighbourhood, thats depressing

[Torque]

shut up cerb and test her "slip" lmao

[Reasonably Psychotic]

Not a slip. Multiple scum strongmen are extremely improbable, so it's just her screwing up the role.

Question is legit town misread, deliberate scum "misread"(given that a lot of this is directed at defusing ME as a lynch threat to her, it's something I catch), or a legit scum brain fart.

-Yukiteru

[Reasonably Psychotic]

Also torque, nxm, pink ball: thoughts on my flavor claim idea?
-Yukiteru

[Torque]

Not a slip. Multiple scum strongmen are extremely improbable, so it's just her screwing up the role.

Question is legit town misread, deliberate scum "misread"(given that a lot of this is directed at defusing ME as a lynch threat to her, it's something I catch), or a legit scum brain fart.

-Yukiteru

thats what i wanted to test aaaaaaaaa

[Reasonably Psychotic]

Fair. In the future just tell me to stfu, don't give me anything to respond to that I might view as wrong/needing clarification

-Yukiteru

[Torque]

Also torque, nxm, pink ball: thoughts on my flavor claim idea?
-Yukiteru

I don't really see flavour as indicative of anything nor will it give any info out
I guess there is the benefit of scum can't fakeclaim they were a character that they were not after changing roles tonight
but also we know there are roles that perform differently depending on gender, so we could be helping scum there but it's a pretty fringe case I think

I already flavour claimed mine first post. tbh if people wanna claim, sure. idrc.

[mastina]

Ok so anyway, let me give you more of an actual introduction....

The only player I know here is Almost50 who I played with a few months ago. Otherwise the rest of you probably don’t know me and I don’t know you. Personally I don’t view this as a problem because I give 0 shits about meta and any meta-analysis. My reads are always entirely based on the situation and the motivations behind them. In fact it always amuses me to no end when people freely hand out playbooks to the scum team when they openly discuss “behavior X is towny of him and behavior Y is scummy”. So don’t count on me participating in any meta analysis here.

I have a few gut reactions but keep in mind that I didn’t officially inherit this role until late-ish last night and have only had about 2 hours to read up on over 3000 posts. My reads will come eventually. It does also help simply to get involved so I’m hoping to poke my head in a lot during these first few real-life days to get a better sense of you all.

Finally, anime is just an excuse for adults to keep watching cartoons and I don’t know a damn thing about anime. Shoot me.

This is more or less my baseline, here.

This is SuperfluousNinja, before I entered the thread. Look at the type of posts he was making at that time.

If Mastina is the one that promoted this idea, then yes, that makes me very suspicious of Mastina.
I just think the logic clearly demonstrates that anyone who targeted him would have to be scum and that there is clearly quite a bit to learn here. I didn’t get the impression that you wanted this closer look.

Oof. Your counter-argument is that town is stupid? I just perused through Mastina’s ISO who was apparently a leading proponent of targeting him at night. Mastina is clearly not at all stupid...Mastina has been one of the biggest and most detailed contributors to this game. It cannot both be true that Mastina is stupid and that your angle here is legitimate.

Here's not only another, but it shows that he was pushing me as a mislynch candidate.

Alright as if there were really any question...

VOTE: SuperfluousNinja.
Robert was playing in a way which loosely suggested he was scum, and the flake reeked of being an apathetic scum flakeout.
ooba's utter in-and-out without so much of a word of analysis reeked of being an apathetic scum flakeout.
And this entrance is a scum entrance.

Interesting that the first vote placed by someone who claims to have no idea about the game state is on a slot that has a decent chance of being the alternative to their own wagon.

Yes indeed.

At least, not anything compelling enough that I bothered keeping it in mind.

I made a case; Dunnstral made a case; Near x Mello made a case; all of these were individual efforts approaching the slot from multiple angles.

I actually think it might be town indicative. Their drive has just enough of an "eager townie chasing his own tail" vibe to it.

It's really not.
It's a cheap, easy avenue to chase after, and one which as Near x Mello points out, is entirely more likely to be going after exclusively town names.

Scum didn't have to target Toogeloo; they'd let the town do that work for them.
So chasing after those who targeted Toogeloo is chasing after players who are town.
It's an easy push, one which requires no effort to make, and it is a push on town, one which is safe to make.

And then I entered into the day proper with this.

So, singletonking was in the channel Torque and I did; the reason he died is that he targeted Severa, and per singleton's PM, that means Severa's death killed singleton.
I among others targeted Toogeloo, explaining that death.

Sure, and in doing so, you wasted your supposed town ability, as did anyone else who followed your lead. Well played.

Am I supposed to believe that with the excessive amount of thinking and analysis you have done so far in this game, it didn’t occur to you to try and figure out why Toog revealed this about himself? Can you explain why you weren’t at all suspicious of targeting a player who you thought was scum and told you exactly how to kill him? Why wouldn’t it occur to you that this could be a trap?

His initial response is reasonable enough...

that statement by rp was awful. SN has barely been here to know which wagon is likely to go through

Scumchat's a thing.
Even if daychat isn't.
SuperfluousNinja replaced in during the night.
And has access to however much talk has happened in each and every PT they have access to.

If in scumchat.
Or, heck.
If in a neighborhood which SuperfluousNinja has access to.
It was discussed that Reasonably Psychotic is someone that people are suspicious of.

SuperfluousNinja would be well-informed of this fact.

Also, there's the chance that SuperfluousNinja simply is faking the amount of knowledge they possess, having read more than they have implied.

So yes.
SuperfluousNinja would be well aware of this fact.

SuperfluousNinja stays in the poe pool regardless; I can tell you that now. Severa's townread there was dependent on Spike and Jet being scum; they were not. Ankamius prior to sheeping Severa supported the lynch on SuperfluousNinja, as far as I can tell. Unless the neighborhood with them tells me that one/both of them townread the slot during the night, I don't have reason off of faith-trusting them not to keep pursuing this read, because the read has a SOLID basis to it.

Robert's posting indicated scum; Robert's flake indicated scum; ooba's flake indicated scum; SuperfluousNinja's posting indicates scum.

You're missing the point. The fact that they haven't been here long enough to be aware of the game state yet unerringly zeroed in on the most viable counterwagon to their own lynch is weak evidence of coaching/input from their teammates on how to save that slot for whoever the replacement was.

Pretty much, yeah.

i dont agree youre "the most viable counterwagon", thats your own manipulative words to make your point

Okay.

Who is, then?
With Toogeloo and Severa both dead at night.

Who is the most viable counterwagon to SuperfluousNinja?

Name names, here.

Because Reasonably Psychotic is a damn fucking plausible one in my eyes. Suspicion has been on the slot all game, and from notable players no less; I pushed it until midway through D2, and both Severa and Ankamius (dead town players notable for being charismatic) pushed them as possible scum as well, meaning that people performing NKA are likely to finger Reasonably Psychotic as scum.

Who would you name as a more probable counterwagon? The list of options is quite thin. Especially since counterwagons are going to, by the standard of "counterwagon to the scum wagon", being likely not to be on scum.
So if you think that, for instance, hypothetically, Elena and SuperfluousNinja would be scum together, then Elena's disqualified from being a viable counterwagon to SuperfluousNinja.

...But then I apply the pressure.

The breaking point was after this:

that statement by rp was awful. SN has barely been here to know which wagon is likely to go through

Scumchat's a thing. Even if daychat isn't. SuperfluousNinja replaced in during the night. And has access to however much talk has happened in each and every PT they have access to.

If in scumchat. Or, heck. If in a neighborhood which SuperfluousNinja has access to. It was discussed that Reasonably Psychotic is someone that people are suspicious of.
SuperfluousNinja would be well-informed of this fact.
Also, there's the chance that SuperfluousNinja simply is faking the amount of knowledge they possess, having read more than they have implied.

So yes. SuperfluousNinja would be well aware of this fact.

This is basically pure WIFOM. If you come up with actual evidence and feel like actually talking to me rather than doing a hit and run like this, do let me know. And don’t forget to answer my questions to you also.
You know another reason why people jump onto wagons is because a player is actually guilty and multiple people figure that out. See how WIFOM really doesn’t work?

Or rather, my laughing at it.

Am I supposed to believe that with the excessive amount of thinking and analysis you have done so far in this game, it didn’t occur to you to try and figure out why Toog revealed this about himself?

Nope!

Am I supposed to believe that you can't parse the fact that Toogeloo's claim was entirely not-alignment-indicative, thus, irrelevant to people?

Can you explain why you weren’t at all suspicious of targeting a player who you thought was scum and told you exactly how to kill him? Why wouldn’t it occur to you that this could be a trap?

It did.
I had countermeasures for any trap Toogeloo could've possessed.

That's why I was so adamant about targeting him. I knew that if he was, say, fakeclaiming and had a real role of pgo, it'd be nullified.

See how WIFOM really doesn’t work?

Boy oh boy you picked the wrong term to use, fella.

Wondering if I should drop the bombshell on that term right now or let it fall in suspense for a while.

Suffice to say,

I'm feeling quite smug at the moment in terms of that post.

This doesn't directly help find scum, other than showing that SuperfluousNinja's barking up the wrong tree.

Well I look forward to the post-game analysis when I can make it clear to you that this really is WIFOM. I don’t know why you’re pretending to know something that both of us know is not true.

Because I know something you do not know about WIFOM.
You think you know WIFOM well enough to argue it.
But I know something about WIFOM that you do not.

And what I know gives me a degree of smugness on the subject.

Why haven’t you answered my questions yet?

Why are you pretending that I haven't when I already did?

This was the breaking point.

I left for work at that stage.

And SuperfluousNinja flipped out.

Am I supposed to believe that with the excessive amount of thinking and analysis you have done so far in this game, it didn’t occur to you to try and figure out why Toog revealed this about himself?

Nope!
Am I supposed to believe that you can't parse the fact that Toogeloo's claim was entirely not-alignment-indicative, thus, irrelevant to people?

I never argued that the statement was alignment-indicative. Please show me where I tried to argue that it was. I’ll be waiting.

Well I look forward to the post-game analysis when I can make it clear to you that this really is WIFOM. I don’t know why you’re pretending to know something that both of us know is not true.

Because I know something you do not know about WIFOM.
You think you know WIFOM well enough to argue it.
But I know something about WIFOM that you do not.

And what I know gives me a degree of smugness on the subject.

Does this have any relevance to the game, or are you just being a smartass about terminology? It better fucking not be the latter.

You know what, go ahead and sub me out of this game.

I’ve been pissed all day because of Mastina pointlessly gloating over me apparently misusing an acronym and her taking advantage of that to feel better about herself. I don’t need this shit. This is supposed to be fun and all this game has left me with is a shit ton of stress.

You all have accepted a level of toxicity that I just do not support. I don’t intend on returning.

There was a grand total of one SuperfluousNinja post between those, and it was calling something unrelated, rude.

Like I just want to emphasize how shitty of a move that was on her part. It had nothing to do with the game AT ALL; she just wanted to gloat over something she supposedly held over me. Fuck if I’m going to stick around for that kind of shit.

Again.
The emphasis here.
He flipped out because of what I did.
I knew something about WIFOM that he did not. (Because I literally wrote the fucking book on WIFOM, which was what I was smug about--he was trying to use the term WIFOM on the person who basically redefined what WIFOM was.)
And he utterly flipped out at that level of smugness. I knew his push was a dead end, but I didn't explain to him WHY it was going to be a dead end--and he tilted as a result of this.

I very clearly did not attack her character; I attacked her actions, and deservedly so.

He saw attacks on character from me, he was seeing me as basically a bully.

And you think.
That tilt.
Was from a scumbuddy of mine?

He went from rational to outright feral--and all it took from me were a couple of posts where I was holding back some of my cards for a while.

[mastina]

(Mind you, I did fully intend to explain why using the term wifom was a mistake--after I had garnered the appropriate reactions from players. His reaction was rather unexpected, but quite telling in its own way. I was smug because I knew I wouldn't be touched by the argument of wifom, and I felt like not revealing the answer because it'd spoil the suspense.)

[Tatsuya Kaname]

Votecount 3.5

Almost50(3)

~ mastina(28), Dunnstral(34), Elena Fisher(17)

mastina(2)

~ Near x Mello(82), Pink Ball(16)

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Chito and Yuuri(4)

Reasonably Psychotic(1)

~ Gamma Emerald(21)

Near x Mello(1)

~ Torque(23)


Not Voting (3): Joan of Arc(60), Reasonably Psychotic(49), Almost50(0)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 3 deadline is in (expired on 2019-03-13 22:00:00)

FLAVOR

This is an automated vote count generated by a tool written by MathBlade. It goes much smoother with exact votes but will try to detect bold votes and misspellings. If you have issues during this beta, please get MathBlade.

[Torque]

Idk, I havn't seen much of a change with Pink ball or Near. I'd actually put Mastina as an actual town read, she's been completely different then the game I played with her when she was scum. Maybe its so many people causing issues for me, But I have half the reads I'd like. Vedith is odd, but don't have strong feelings either ways. However, a flip would help with reads there... A50 seems crazy still. Toogeloo post seem odd to me as well.

I Feel players can easily fly under the radar and post every once and awhile. As there so many people, its easy to just blend into the crowd I think.

Eh. that A50 read seems super awkward, probably w/w
Same with the Toog read but he might have needed to add a villager in the list

[Torque]

Yeah if that mastina/SN interaction was w/w then that's actually the most toxic shit i've ever seen

[Near x Mello]

Eh. that A50 read seems super awkward, probably w/w

whats awkward about it? He just called him crazy. Have you never seen scum calling town crazy or similar?
also that read is after the read on vedith, an actual s/s read. So, less chance its also a s/s read.

[Near x Mello]

Yeah if that mastina/SN interaction was w/w then that's actually the most toxic shit i've ever seen

whats toxic about it?

[Near x Mello]

You know what, go ahead and sub me out of this game.

I’ve been pissed all day because of Mastina pointlessly gloating over me apparently misusing an acronym and her taking advantage of that to feel better about herself. I don’t need this shit. This is supposed to be fun and all this game has left me with is a shit ton of stress.

You all have accepted a level of toxicity that I just do not support. I don’t intend on returning.

btw this post comes as a response to dunn's push.

another case of mastina altering reality.