Anime U-Pick: King Size [SEASON FINALE...?]


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Post Post #4675 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:21 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 4635, Torque wrote:I'm mentally not ready to deal with the inevitable incoming walls aaaaaaaaaaaaaa
If you weren't (bleeped because bleep the mod) prepared for them.

Then you shouldn't have (bleeped because bleep the mod) cast the vote.

Because no (bleeped because bleep the mod)(bleeped because bleep the mod) I'm going to (bleeped because bleep the mod) respond.

I'm barely avoiding a modkill as is.

Just (bleeped because bleep the mod) everything about this (bleeped because bleep the mod) game.
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Post Post #4676 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:22 pm

Post by Near x Mello »

@mod
Joan is voting mastina. Also, happy cake!
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Post Post #4677 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:23 pm

Post by mastina »

AND YES I REALLY DID GET (bleeped because bleep the mod) WARNED BY THE MOD WHICH IS ABSOLUTE (bleeped because bleep the mod) BULL(bleeped because bleep the mod) BECAUSE I HAVE DAMN (bleeped because bleep the mod) GOOD REASON TO BE TICKED OFF RIGHT NOW.

I have made STRONG (bleeped because bleep the mod) reasons.
Why I am not (bleeped because bleep the mod) scum.

STRONG REASONS.
THAT.
NOBODY.
HAS.
(bleeped because bleep the mod)
COUNTERED.

I have GIVEN the proof I'm (bleeped because bleep the mod) town.
And I've laid it out.

So this absolutely should not be (bleeped because bleep the mod) happening.
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Post Post #4678 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:24 pm

Post by Near x Mello »

your reasons are just worthless selfmeta nobody cares about
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Post Post #4679 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:26 pm

Post by Tatsuya Kaname »

Catched the miss, fixed!
Embark the journey to life-changing fortune in Para{dice} Trinity: The Quest for Spirits' Fortune, a luck-based casual arcade Mish Mash game by Tatsuya Kaname!

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Post Post #4680 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:28 pm

Post by Near x Mello »

two votes to go

Pink, cerb, ready yet?
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Post Post #4681 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:29 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 4678, Near x Mello wrote:your reasons are just worthless selfmeta nobody cares about
No they (bleeped because bleep the mod) aren't.

Self-meta plays a (bleeped because bleep the mod) part in it because HEY THAT IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT IS (bleeped because bleep the mod) IMPORTANT TO ME (AND HAVE I MENTIONED HOW (bleeped because bleep the mod) PISSED I AM RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THE MOD IS (bleeped because bleep the mod) LIMITING MY ABILITY TO ACTUALLY PROPERLY DEFEND MYSELF) BECAUSE META IS ONE OF MY LARGEST (bleeped because bleep the mod) SCUMHUNTING TOOLS.

But I've given strong reasons BEYOND that.

Don't (bleeped because bleep the mod) pretend I haven't.

There's a strong case to be made from my (bleeped because bleep the mod) actions.
How I've handled everything throughout the game.
What I've (bleeped because bleep the mod) said.
What I've (bleeped because bleep the mod) done.
What I've (bleeped because bleep the mod) NOT done.

What the scum have (bleeped because bleep the mod) that I wouldn't.
What the scum did (bleeped because bleep the mod) do.
Including WHY THE SCUM (bleeped because bleep the mod) KNOW THAT I SHOULD BY ALL RIGHTS BE (bleeped because bleep the mod) CONFTOWN. WHICH I CAN'T (bleeped because bleep the mod) TALK ABOUT MORE THAN I ALREADY (bleeped because bleep the mod) HAVE.

The absolute (bleeped because bleep the mod) lack of a coherent scumteam involving me.

People present scumteams that include me, but do they actually (bleeped because bleep the mod) fit?
With ONE (bleeped because bleep the mod) IOTA OF ANALYSIS.
SELF-EVIDENTLY.
THEY (bleeped because bleep the mod) DON'T.

AND EVERYONE WOULD (bleeped because bleep the mod) KNOW IT IF THEY GAVE IT SO MUCH AS A SINGLE (bleeped because bleep the mod) MOMENT'S THOUGHT.
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Post Post #4682 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:32 pm

Post by Near x Mello »

yep they fit
I explained why chito/yuuri are your buddy
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Post Post #4683 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:35 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 4682, Near x Mello wrote:yep they fit
I explained why chito/yuuri are your buddy
Yeah...from interactions EXCLUSIVELY from this (bleeped because bleep the mod) day phase.

You know.

The one that Chito and Yuuri have less than 24 hours' worth of contribution to?

You know.

The one where they have been (bleeped because bleep the mod) prodded because they've been (bleeped because bleep the mod) inactive?

You know.

The one where they have been given less than two (bleeped because bleep the mod) days to give content in?

And ignored GAME-LONG (bleeped because bleep the mod) history beyond that.
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Post Post #4684 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:37 pm

Post by Near x Mello »

Btw lets add one more reason mastina is scum to the mix

You see all this exaggerated anger and frustration? Its made up.

Do you see any of that when
town mastina is lynched?

nope
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Post Post #4685 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:38 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 4684, Near x Mello wrote:You see all this exaggerated anger and frustration? Its made up.
Do you see any of that when
town mastina is lynched?
nope
Yeah you just picked the wrong (bleeped because bleep the mod) battle to fight. Want proof?

I already gave it.
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Post Post #4686 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:39 pm

Post by Near x Mello »

In post 4683, mastina wrote:Yeah...from interactions EXCLUSIVELY from this (bleeped because bleep the mod) day phase.
false
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Post Post #4687 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:39 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 4523, mastina wrote:t=44160&f=56&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select%5B%5D=12314&user_select%5B%5D=23121&user_select%5B%5D=0&user_sort=Go]This one's the aforementioned Tales of You, by the way[/url]; go check out the latter half in particular. Page 3, give or take a little.
...I mean if you discard some of the hydra ones where I made like 1/100th of the posts rather than a more even amount you'd get under ten. But guess it's a bit more than I thought.


Btw, not a multi-page iso, but highly readable yet relevant comparison to this game. Shortish, but read the latter half of the iso in particular, from D2 onward, when the bullshit happened.
Want me to quote from that game?

Oh I (bleeped because bleep the mod) will.
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Post Post #4688 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:42 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 4523, mastina wrote:This one's the aforementioned Tales of You, by the way; go check out the latter half in particular. Page 3, give or take a little.
...I mean if you discard some of the hydra ones where I made like 1/100th of the posts rather than a more even amount you'd get under ten. But guess it's a bit more than I thought.
Btw, not a multi-page iso, but highly readable yet relevant comparison to this game. Shortish, but read the latter half of the iso in particular, from D2 onward, when the bullshit happened.
In post 4524, mastina wrote:(Start from here, more specifically; it...should start sounding familiar REAL quick.)
Too lazy to click the links?

Let me show you. Subject: Comparative Religion Mafia GAME OVAH
mastin2 wrote:
In post 1540, Kagami wrote:You're right, it's the reverse, that if targeting happens during resolution, it's a reflexive doctor.
Which for all I know is how the role works. I can't tell you what it does exactly. I can't tell you why UT designed it that way. All I can tell you is what is, quite explicitly, right there.
In post 1545, AngryPidgeon wrote:Don't think about the setup spec too hard. Mastin is just not playing like shes town right now.
VOTE: AngryPidgeon.

This is my townplay.
THROUGH AND THROUGH.

Townplay.

You
know
it is, AP.

I can't fake confusion.
I can't fake most of what I've done this game.

Like, when I'm scum.
I'll go, "hmm. That doesn't make sense. Maybe it was this." Like, flat, dead delivery of things I either know to be lies or know to be truth. And typically when saying the truth, having confidence behind it. That it happened that way, not this way. I'll have a precise narrative in mind.
Key word,
precise
. I'll have a locked down idea. The idea doesn't work, I've meticulously got a backup plan. And a plan for that backup plan not panning out. And for that one. I run through my list, and I do so robotically, pretty much. There's a lack of emotions behind it. There's a lack of actual effort in my actions, as the most effort I have to do as scum is to spin a plausible narrative and then, bam, I've left it at that.

But you KNOW that I've not done that.
You KNOW that's not what I've done, not even remotely, this game.
YOU KNOW.
BETTER THAN DAMN FREAKIN ANYBODY ELSE.

There is
zero
aspects of my scumplay this game.
ZERO.
None.

Like. As scum. I will cheekily say, "Yeah, there's that aspect of my scumgame in here, but I swear I'm town!" (Kinda my signature style as scum by this point, though I do a less-flat and more-genuine version as town which is akin to, "I realized that you've seen that aspect as coming from me-as-scum, but...it's not". The literal arguments the same, the tonality behind them nothing alike.)

But there is none.

The closest.
LITERALLY FREAKIN CLOSEST.
THING THAT COMES.
TO MY SCUMPLAY.
IS THIS POST RIGHT HERE VOTING YOU IN AN OMGUS.

Because. It doesn't exist. There's been no masterful plan.
There's been no order.
No cohesion.
No plotting.
No manipulating.
No misdirection.
No tone-death flat posting.
Nothing.

No. aspect.
Whatsoever.
Of my scumgame.

And you're claiming.
That I'm not playing my towngame at all.

Bullshit.
Subject: Comparative Religion Mafia GAME OVAH
mastin2 wrote:
In post 1548, AngryPidgeon wrote:I never said I was sure you were scum. I said there are 3 scum in a pool of 5 and nothing you've posted is town enough to get you into my town group.
WHICH.
IS.
THE.
SAME.
FREAKIN.
THING.
AS.
SCUMREADING.
ME.

A town-AP might have a not-obvtown-Mastin (or, heck, even an obvtown-but-could-be-scumobvtowning-Mastin) in the lower towns. Not fully locked down on a read of me, yet. Not overly concerned, though, about my alignment, trusting me just enough for me to be given a townread pass. ESPECIALLY when I'm town.

Yet here, I'm in the opposite: carelessly discarded into the scum pile. In spite of being obvtown.

MORE THAN THAT.
More than that.

Your explanation here is also bullshit, because YOU.
FLAT-OUT.
OFFERED.
TO.
PUT.
ME.
AT.
L. FREAKIN. ONE.

That's not only placing me in the potential scum candidates...
THAT'S. ACTIVELY. TRYING. TO. LYNCH. ME. AS. A. SCUMREAD.

No second-guessing?
No looking at my actions?
No thinking about the motive behind them?
The mindset driving them?
More than that...not seeing the tone in them?

No.


A town-AP against a scuMastin is able to instantly pick up on these things...and then pushes them through.
A scum-AP pushing a town Mastin is going to always play it by ear...but in a case like this one, is going to force a waffle and lack commitment, lack conviction, because he's well aware that if he pushes me hardcore, it's going to be a scumclaim from him. If he chooses to scumread me, he needs to have it build over time.

Which is.
Exactly.
What.
You.
Are.
Doing.
Subject: Comparative Religion Mafia GAME OVAH
mastin2 wrote:
In post 1555, Kagami wrote:mastin doesn't seem to have realized that this explanation doesn't fit the NAR of this game until I point it out deep in page 2.
(Which, again. is, uh. Kinda a towntell for me.
A scuMastin isn't immune to making errors about how actions resolve.
But I am very.
VERY.
Good at it as scum.
A LOT of my scum wins are by making plans and executing them solidly...including claims involved.

For instance, you can see it in Attack on Titan. I pointed out things about Pasch's claim. I knew what was involved...and when I didn't, I asked the mod. The scum QT shows me meticulously planning every aspect of that, and how to use it and point things in a direction that'd keep Pasch alive for as long as possible.)
In post 1556, Bacde wrote:$50 says mastin2 still has me as a stronger scumread than angrypidgon.
Honestly, my vote on AP is more to make a statement than anything, because you're actually right; it's implosion > Bacde > AP right now.
Subject: Comparative Religion Mafia GAME OVAH
mastin2 wrote:
In post 1561, Kagami wrote:I can imagine various scenarios in which scum!mastin thought she could get away with this; the simplest being that she planned to claim that she was roleblocked, not realizing the game had an unusual NAR (notice that
no one
appears to have noticed this).
Except that scuMastin explicitly picks up on details like that.

I do NOT.
NOT.
Fakeclaim as scum.
Out of the blue.

Least of all.
LEAST of all.
Something that isn't explicitly from my role PM.
In post 1566, Bacde wrote:Also shes saying that there is no way she is scum because if she was scum we wouldnt be on to her. Lol, is that really your defense?
Yes. Explicitly. Because it's the truth. And anyone.
ANYONE.

Who has played against a scuMastin.
In the last two years.

KNOWS it.
In post 1563, Jargonaut wrote:I'm really not buying the whole, "If I were scum I'd be playing better" argument, and she looks really flail-y citing it so much.
Except it's true. As scum, you would never know I was scum like this.

You catch a scuMastin? It's from the things I said.
It's from reading play.
It's from looking at actions.
And realizing that they don't make sense coming from a town mindset.
Combined with a flat tone.

Every scum lynch of mine.
EVERY.

Scum lynch.
Of mine.
Has been off of that.

Attack on Titan. 172. L4D. (Though that one was by my design.) These are NOT games where I made a mistake. These are NOT games where I showed off self-meta. (Okay, so I did some in L4D, but mostly just in address to those already using meta. "This is a weird mastin" "Yes, it is, but it's intentional".) These are games where I was playing the long con. These are games.

Where I quite explicitly.
Had.
A.
Damn.
Plan.

Not some vague plan.
Not some plan that was filled with holes.
A goddamn specific plan. Tight-nit. Ironed shut. Rock-solid, airtight, which could go off almost without a hitch. In spite of the lynch on me. (172 didn't get the plan executed, though it existed.)
And that planning process also contributed to the wins in Paranoia, in Anything Goes, and basically every single scum game I've recently played. I laid out the path to victory...and won once said path was realized.

What would have gone wrong here to result in this?
I might not possess omnipotence as scum. But to get caught on something like that?
No.


Damn right it's flailing. But it could not be any more town-motivated flailing.
And you are all going to look so incredibly stupid when I flip town, 'cause you'll realize that the case against me was entirely based off of things that I have no answer for. Not just no answer, no possible answer for.
In my position, you'd be doing the same thing. You'd be flailing. Because you wouldn't know. Because you'd be confused. Because you wouldn't have an answer, wouldn't have a clue what was going on.

Tell me. Flat-out tell me after I flip town. That in my shoes, you'd play differently. I dare you. DARE. you. To say you wouldn't be struggling. Trying. To figure it out. And be frustrated. That everyone is calling you scum. And you know that if not for your role PM, you'd be agreeing with them.

This is why I am incredibly cautious of scumhunting by roles and not by play. Because this is my townplay. Through-and-through. You can look at any scumgame of mine recently and tell it's not this. You can look at any towngame of mine recently and tell it's PRECISELY this. (Especially egregious is AP, who saw this similar flailing in his micro...thus why I think he's scum.) Off of play. I look town because I am town. Off of play. There is essentially no case on me at all. (Aside from flailing which...is explicitly not because of my play, and is entirely tied to the confusion.) Off of my damned play. If people put aside the roles. Put aside the flailing from dealing with them. And looked at my damn play. They'd see it as town. Heck, they had been! Kagami did, too. Because my play has been town.

Implosion's hasn't been.
Bacde's I'm strongly thinking hasn't been.
And now, I'm thinking AP's not, either.
But because you're so freaking determined to lynch me, I won't have the time to nail down that AP read for sure.
In post 1567, AngryPidgeon wrote:I'm going to default to assuming that you are allowing yourself to be wagon ed and tthese walls are your way of gracefully bowing out as maf.
Hey.
AP.

If you're town.
(I'm thinking not.)

Guess what.

You just lost your position in the 'can read me' club.
Not just for misreading me when this is my townplay through-and-through.
But for thinking that this.
Is something.

I would ever.
EVER.

Do.

As mafia.

Because if you seriously think that I would do these things as mafia?
You know nothing about me
.
(Fortunately, I am of the opinion that you're not town and thus haven't lost your touch. Because it's explicitly NOT on my end this game. There is literally no way I could be more town by play alone than I have been this game.)
Want more?

I can give you more!

Let's look at the other game, Tales of You!
Subject: Tales of You (Endgame)
MastinSSK wrote:And look. Nearly nine. Six+ hours. Tired, hungry, need to use the bathroom, and really.
Fucking.
Sick.

You know it's bad when your lurker of a hydra partner tells you that you need a break. :P
Soyeah. I'm probably done for the day.
Subject: Tales of You (Endgame)
MastinSSK wrote:
In post 5036, AngryPidgeon wrote:NOW IM POSTING IT TO TRY AND MAKE A CASE FOR YOU. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?
The thing "wrong" with me is my town wincon not allowing me to be blinded by being WK'ed.
IVE BEEN GETTING FLAK FOR MY TOWNREAD OF YOU AND IT WAS HUGELY BASED ON YOU
FUCKING ME OVER
IN THAT SCUM GAME BY LURKING LIKE A FUCK.
Coincidentally, Nacho made this same point. About how he got flak for his townread of me, and bluntly demanding why he'd do that as scum.
In post 5037, AngryPidgeon wrote:BUT NO YOU HAVE TO ALIENATE THE ONE FUCKING PERSON WILLING TO STEP UP TO BAT FOR YOU AND NITPICK THE SHIT OUT OF EVERYTHING I DO AND POST BULLSHIT LIKE
"IM HAVING A HARD TIME EXPLAINING MY AP READ THIS GAME" INTERMIITENTLY.
Yes. Because while I want you to be town, oh so badly, it's not what I'm reading. I'll fully admit that there's some bias in there. But every reset I do. Every time I take another look. I still see scum.
In post 5041, Yggdra Union wrote:so you'd back the fuck down as scum. what did you do here? back the fuck down and never poke at him again. makes sense
What the fuck?

NO I FUCKING DIDN'T. YOUR WHOLE FUCKING CASE AGAINST ME WAS THAT I DIDN'T FUCKING BACK DOWN. That is literally. FUCKING LITERAL GOD-DAMNED TO THE WORD. Your fucking case. (And Nacho's, for that matter.) That I didn't back down. I have been going out of my fucking way to point out exactly why I haven't back down, and also made it really fucking clear exactly what a scum me would do being a backing down.
I don't buy your "noise is detrimental to scum" bullshit and it makes sense you'd say that in order to detract attention from what you're trying to do
Fuck you, you little shithead. TRhat psiot hwas made with me being as pure as I fucking can be you absolute asshole. I meant every fiucking weord of it.,
Want more?
I can find more!

Those're just two towngames; I've raged in plenty more than them!
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Post Post #4689 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:44 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 4686, Near x Mello wrote:
In post 4683, mastina wrote:Yeah...from interactions EXCLUSIVELY from this (bleeped because bleep the mod) day phase.
false
Oh? Do tell then.
What about Chito and Yuuri's treatment of me--which was largely (bleeped because bleep the mod) negative--yesterday.

Was used by you?
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Post Post #4690 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:53 pm

Post by mastina »

Chito and Yuuri's iso, my name highlighted.

In particular, you can read from this point.

, , , , and just as importantly as those posts, my responses to them.
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Post Post #4691 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:59 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

You should all stop voting mastina until at least C&Y shows up.

I made a hood with them specifically to sort them, and be conftown in the event that they weren't lying about their role and are actually town, and that particular line of play is of no value if we end the day super early like you're trying to.
GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009
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Post Post #4692 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:00 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 4690, mastina wrote:and just as importantly as those posts, my responses to them.
In post 4079, mastina wrote:
In post 4064, Chito and Yuuri wrote:I'm about 3000% more concerned about the fact that you claimed you didn't think it was a hammer than that you actually hammered.
Doesn't matter.
It's the truth.
I didn't think I hammered.

I don't lie as scum, so that is a statement which is true regardless of my alignment.

I didn't know it was, period. End of discussion.

Talk to Cerb, talk to Joan, talk to anyone who has played with me on whether I lie as scum; they'll tell you the same thing I will.
I firmly believe the truth is the best weapon of scum. Lies stand out, and can be picked up by the town. But if you're telling the truth, your sincerity and genuineness shines through--weapons you can turn into townreads on your slot.

I didn't know it was a hammer, but I don't really care that it was.
In post 4051, mastina wrote:
In post 4034, Chito and Yuuri wrote:I don't know why you would forget our vote was still on Gamma, and then all the votes to L-1 were basically right next to each other on 160... you knew what you were doing.
To the contrary.

No, I didn't know about your vote; I thought you were one of the ones that moved to Almost50.
No, I didn't count the exact number of votes; I saw people moving, and lots of people at that, and that was good enough for me.

I didn't think I was hammering Gamma, but honestly I don't care.

I made it clear I'd vote Gamma if Almost50 wasn't happening.
Almost50 wasn't going to happen.

You're surprised at the logical conclusion of that?

You shouldn't be.

Because if one thing has been made clear about me.

It's that I fucking do exactly what I promise to do.

I promised I'd vote whichever of Almost50 and Gamma Emerald had more momentum.

Gamma Emerald had more momentum.
In post 4048, mastina wrote:
In post 4027, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Am I missing something here
Yes, you are.
In post 4027, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Why would a modkill on scum make you 'fucking ticked off' as town?
Well for a start, a modkill rather than a lynch prevented me from giving further interactions that would've proven I'm not scum with SuperfluousNinja, but more to the point, it wasn't JUST the modkill.

It was the modkill, in tandem with being pushed as scum
after
the modkill when the modkill should've made it abundantly clear I was town.
In post 4020, mastina wrote:
In post 3927, Chito and Yuuri wrote:In that game, mastina simply updates her reads list a lot, but she doesn't make these long wallposts over-analyzing every movement of her reads list.
You have to understand two key factors.
1: Steven Universe 2 represented a shift in the way I played. It was the transition from mastin2 to mastina--and there is a deeply personal reason for this shift, actually, one which I can discuss over PMs but won't discuss in person. There's something unique about mastina that wasn't present on mastin2...but Steven Universe 2 represented the first time that this thing began to appear. (Basically, there was a gigantic shift in playstyle happening over the course of that game. At the beginning, I was mastin2; by the end, I was mastina.)

2: I only started the long wallposts after the SuperfluousNinja modkill,
in tandem
with people then being suspicious of ME after it.

If that was absent.

I wouldn't be making the long wallposts.

What you see here is the result of something I fucking KNOW is self-destructive and usually stay away from doing--but because
I am fucking pissed
, I stopped caring about it being self-destructive.

My D1 play?
Normal me.
My D2 play?
Not
as
normal of me, but still
close
to my normal me.
My D3 play prior to the modkill?
Normal me.

My D3 play post-modkill?

Fucking ticked off.
In post 4001, mastina wrote:Going to rewind for a bit to go back here:
In post 3723, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Chito: you get that no one is going to take you self-metaing an argument that you're not proactive as scum seriously when you spend every other post saying you can do literally anything as scum right
It's not a useless point, though.
It's simple math.
I draw scum, on average, about 25% of my games. This is a hard fact, yes?
I am proactive in, at most, about 25% of my scumgames. This is something I just demonstrated, yes?
I am proactive in this game. You don't debate that, do you?

Well then what do you get when you crunch those numbers?

25% * 25% = 6.25% chance that I am scum who is proactive this game.

When you look at it that way, not so worthless to talk about, is it?
In post 3821, mastina wrote:
In post 3820, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Mastina, you figured out who Joan was by your 8th post in the game. Are you saying you wouldn't have expected her to push Near x Mello at some point?
If I were scum then I'd expect her to push me.

The thought of her pushing Near x Mello never crossed my mind.

But I guarantee you that if I were scum that the thought she could push ME would occur to me.

Now picture Joan's current push on Near x Mello, except it's on me, and imagine scumastina's thoughts on the subject.

Thus.

Why she'd be a nightkill target.
In post 3755, mastina wrote:
In post 3736, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Except no it isn't.
Except yes it is--the fact.
That I do this every fucking game.

Literally.

Go read any game of mine, see what I do there, you will find me doing it in every fucking game I every play.
A fact that everyone who has played with me can vouch for.

And most importantly of all--that I
believe
it, is all that matters.

It doesn't matter if you disagree with it personally.

The fact that I believe in it is what's important, because if I believe in it, and it should be pretty fucking obvious I do.

Then that's what matters.
In post 3734, mastina wrote:
In post 3733, Chito and Yuuri wrote:It's not even kinda the "same principle"
Except it fucking is. I do it in literally every fucking game all the time because it is just so intuitive.
In post 3733, Chito and Yuuri wrote:No, there isn't "always" a scum mastermind.
Sure, there isn't always a scum mastermind (not what I said), but there
almost
always is (what I did say).
In post 3733, Chito and Yuuri wrote:what the fuck happened to role != alignment?
Role != alignment always applies; it is an argument that no role is inherently, in of itself, just by nature of being that role, a town role or a scum role.
Roles can be alignment indicative off of other factors, where role != alignment doesn't apply.
And when the co-kings of mechanical scumhunting both have reasons to suspect that there is a scum role that allows for the scumteam to view every single PT.
That is a damn good reason, because it is a factor other than the role in of itself. The role in a vacuum wouldn't be inherently town or scum; the role outside of the vacuum with the stimulus Drixx and Cerb see
would
be.

When both co-kings of mechanical play suggest the same thing, on their own, having reached the conclusion individually rather than together.
That's pretty compelling reasoning for it being something.

Roles never directly equal alignment.

To put it this way.

Let me put it in a simple example.

I am not going to call a roleblocker a scum role. I am probably right to not make that call because town roleblockers are common enough a role.

However, in a game with a town cop and a town doctor...when I see a roleblocker claim, I am going to be suspicious it is a scum roleblocker. And I am going to almost assuredly be right to make that call because of the setup.

Do you see the distinction between the two?

That is the difference here. Drixx and Cerb have setup-oriented reasons for believing Almost50's claimed role is a scum one--the equivalent of a roleblocker claiming when a town cop and town doc are known to exist in the game.
In post 3733, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Well that's how you made it seem; what do you see in her posts that she liked?
I don't have the energy to explain this. But basically, there's a process there that strongly indicates a town mindset and thought pattern. It's difficult for me to describe when losing coherency.

There's just good reasons there.
The neighborhood can back me up there that I'm not bullshitting this.
Dunnstral and Torque both know what I'm referring to and singletonking would vouch in much the similar way (if not stronger than us; I believe he'd do it more than anyone else in fact).
In post 3727, mastina wrote:
In post 3720, Chito and Yuuri wrote:3619: This post is actually kinda gross because you have edited 651 to make it seem like you were putting a lot of emphasis on Vedith when you also commented on pink ball and cerb.
I always highlight the relevant parts--yes, there are other parts that I cut out and yes there are other parts that I don't emphasize, but that's because I highlight the areas that are actually pertinent to my point. If I make a wallpost containing reads on every player, do you expect me when coming back to reference it to quote the entire thing, or just the part of it that I need?

...Precisely the same principle here.
In post 3720, Chito and Yuuri wrote:I also don't get why you would PM the mod that you're second guessing a read? That's just weird
Multiple reasons.
1: at the time I wasn't sure I could trust my neighborhood with my thought processes. I certainly couldn't trust the main thread.
2: I felt like a dick pushing Pink Ball that way, and I wanted to record
why
I was pushing him that way--I wanted to have a record of, "this is why I am doing that; it serves a good purpose".
3: I am egotistical and like to record my thoughts.

I have an established track record of doing it in prior games as both alignments mind you. (Well, kinda sorta as scum. Not quite the same, but close enough.)
In post 3720, Chito and Yuuri wrote:3630: 1 is wifomy bs, 2 is wifomy bs
Hey remember when I laughed at SuperfluousNinja for using that term and held a level of smugness for it?

There's damn good reason for it.

Because when I say I literally wrote the fucking book on WIFOM.

It's not Hyperbole.

Go read that and see if you can guess what I think of discrediting attempts because of "that's wifom".
In post 3720, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Considering how Joan/Mastina played Story Revisited, overblown scum theater is like mastina scum 101.
It isn't.
That was specific coaching advice to Joan--I was trying to make her do in
that
game what she's done in
this
game.
Read Joan's posts in this game.

And that is what I was
trying
to make her due in that game.

It was something specific to her.
It was me specifically trying to manipulate
her
meta, her posting, so that she was in tune with her towngame.

I have no such experience with SuperfluousNinja.

So no.

Don't go calling overblown scum theater as scumastina 101 from one fucking example you don't fucking know the context of.
In post 3720, Chito and Yuuri wrote:First of all, why the fuck does everyone assume there IS a scum mastermind?
Multiple reasons.
1: experience. There is almost always a scum mastermind.
2: Gut feeling. The signs of a scum mastermind feel like they are present.
3: The nightkills. The nightkills point towards a more conniving scum player.
In post 3720, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Mastina, if you write a fucking post like 3654 again
I won't, because that was a result of broken code.
Read instead, where the tag was fixed.
In post 3720, Chito and Yuuri wrote:Also, stop saying that Drixx and Cerb scumread A50 for "mechanical" reasons when there isn't an iota of fucking mechanics there
What's not mechanical about saying "Almost50 has a scum role cackling like a maniac" (more or less)?
That seems pretty blatant to me.
In post 3720, Chito and Yuuri wrote:You're townreading Elena because she made you loved
Nope!
In post 3720, Chito and Yuuri wrote:So giving Elena a "1 day pass" because she made you loved, which apparently is a big part of your argument, flies in the face of most of your own arguments.
It would if that were the actual reason; it is not.
In post 3720, Chito and Yuuri wrote:In regard to your best points about A50, simply put, you yourself just modded Ballroom Blitz, where AP made passive unvote posts like: viewtopic.php?p=10700080#p10700080
But you are right that he does tend to *revote faster* even in Ballroom Blitz, and that he has been unusually passive this game.
Yes, that was my point.
Almost50 doesn't need to unvote and then immediately vote someone else.
But he does when unvoting need to not just
do nothing
with it.
And for that matter when voting to not just
do nothing
with it.

Yet here he is.
In post 3720, Chito and Yuuri wrote:and never, ever use the "large" font size again please.
Maybe never judge a post that was broken into the large font only because of a fucking typo; the post is quite normal with that font error removed.
So.

What EXACTLY about these interactions.

Would be scum (bleeped because bleep the mod) scum interactions?
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Post Post #4693 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:03 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

mastina, is C&Y scum?
GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
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Post Post #4694 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:04 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 3727, mastina wrote:
In post 3720, Chito and Yuuri wrote:3630: 1 is wifomy bs, 2 is wifomy bs
Hey remember when I laughed at SuperfluousNinja for using that term and held a level of smugness for it?

There's damn good reason for it.

Because when I say I literally wrote the fucking book on WIFOM.

It's not Hyperbole.

Go read that and see if you can guess what I think of discrediting attempts because of "that's wifom".
Oh and by the way.

This is a (bleeped because bleep the mod) important point.

I literally was the one to redefine what WIFOM meant.

Not figuratively. Not hyperbole on writing the book. Literally, that was me.

No less than TWO people have made arguments against me of, "but that could be wifom".
One of them was Chito and Yuuri, the person I'm being (bleeped because bleep the mod) accused of being a scumbuddy of.

The other?

SuperfluousNinja.

Need I remind you how he (bleeped because bleep the mod) reacted?

In fact, let's do precisely that.
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Post Post #4695 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:05 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 4693, Cerberus v666 wrote:mastina, is C&Y scum?
No.

Which is why proving that I'm not (bleeped because bleep the mod) scum with them is so important.

Because proving I'm not scum with them (bleeped because bleep the mod) proves I'm not scum with
anyone
.
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Post Post #4696 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:12 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 3248, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
In post 3235, mastina wrote:
In post 3221, Near x Mello wrote:that statement by rp was awful. SN has barely been here to know which wagon is likely to go through
Scumchat's a thing.
Even if daychat isn't.
SuperfluousNinja replaced in during the night.
And has access to however much talk has happened in each and every PT they have access to.

If in scumchat.
Or, heck.
If in a neighborhood which SuperfluousNinja has access to.
It was discussed that Reasonably Psychotic is someone that people are suspicious of.

SuperfluousNinja would be well-informed of this fact.

Also, there's the chance that SuperfluousNinja simply is faking the amount of knowledge they possess, having read more than they have implied.

So yes.
SuperfluousNinja would be well aware of this fact.
This is basically pure WIFOM. If you come up with actual evidence and feel like actually talking to me rather than doing a hit and run like this, do let me know. And don’t forget to answer my questions to you also.

You know another reason why people jump onto wagons is because a player is actually guilty and multiple people figure that out. See how WIFOM really doesn’t work?
In post 3256, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
In post 3253, mastina wrote:
In post 3248, SuperfluousNinja wrote:See how WIFOM really doesn’t work?
Boy oh boy you picked the wrong term to use, fella.

Wondering if I should drop the bombshell on that term right now or let it fall in suspense for a while.

Suffice to say,
:cop:
I'm feeling quite smug at the moment in terms of that post.
Well I look forward to the post-game analysis when I can make it clear to you that this really is WIFOM. I don’t know why you’re pretending to know something that both of us know is not true.

Why haven’t you answered my questions yet?
In post 3264, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
In post 3260, mastina wrote:
In post 3256, SuperfluousNinja wrote:Well I look forward to the post-game analysis when I can make it clear to you that this really is WIFOM. I don’t know why you’re pretending to know something that both of us know is not true.
Because I know something you do not know about WIFOM.
You think you know WIFOM well enough to argue it.
But I know something about WIFOM that you do not.

And what I know gives me a degree of smugness on the subject.
Does this have any relevance to the game, or are you just being a smartass about terminology? It better fucking not be the latter.
In post 3961, Chito and Yuuri wrote:
In post 3260, mastina wrote:Because I know something you do not know about WIFOM.
What did you know about WIFOM that SN didn't know?
-Yuuri
In post 3720, Chito and Yuuri wrote:3614: Mastina: "I'm not scum with Elena because Elena made me loved and this surprised me." -- kinda a weak and wifomy argument but I'm not really in love with mastina/elena scum team anyway
3630: 1 is wifomy bs, 2 is wifomy bs, and also you arguing you 'might have killed joan' is laughable but also irrelevant
3654: Ok. First of all, why the fuck does everyone assume there IS a scum mastermind? Scum have been getting destroyed this game so arguing that there is a scum mastermind calling the shots is frankly unsubstantiated wifom. There's no evidence that there is a scum mastermind, all we've seen so far is scum imploding. That's one of the main reasons I've been saying it's Gamma; Gamma's play largely matches the trajectory of a directionless, imploding scumteam. This insistence from everyone that there's a deepscum mastermind I think has related in some of the dumbest, worst pushes this game.
So why are these important?

Because.

scumastina is proven to be a coach.

scumastina coaches her scumbuddies, especially when she sees herself as being the IC (teaching role) of the scumteam.

Why are one proven scum's usage of the term wifom, and one "suspected" scum's usage of the term, important? (Also chito and yuuri use the term at other points, but not as importantly as here.)
In post 321, mastina wrote:I don't feel like spamming Mafia Discussion with 50 threads of articles I'm writing (since I'm doing a lot of mafia theory work), so smaller ones like this one will go in here.

Everything Is WIFOM

An answer to a buzzword.

Everyone knows what WIFOM is, right? "Scum wouldn't do that because that's what they
want
you to think!" Simultaneously, it is a logical fallacy--something to which a player can correctly call bullshit on--and yet also a buzzword, something which is an overused easy accusation to make against almost any argument. These two ideas exist in conflict, so which one can you trust to be accurate? Is WIFOM a legitimate accusation, or is WIFOM a ridiculous defense attempting to shut down a perfectly-reasonable view?

...As it turns out, the answer is both.

The reason for this is that the game of mafia in of itself is at its core a game of wifom.
Every
action in a game, you play the wifom game
. "That post looks like it was made by town. The question is, was it made by scum who
wanted
it to look like town, or is it actually town?" "That post looks like it was made by scum. The question is, was it made by scum who couldn't help but make a scummy post, made by scummy town, or made by scum who wants us to think it's too scummy to be scum?" "That nightkill obviously incriminates this player. The question is, was it done by scum wanting to frame that player, or is that player simply scum?"

Each and every one of those can enter into a never-ending loop. "Scum could make this town-looking post and expect to be townread. But maybe they would expect us to think this, so they wouldn't make it if they were actually scum. But maybe that's what they WANT us to think, so they would make it." "Scum could make this scum-looking post. But maybe they knew that and wouldn't make it, thus it must be town. But maybe they
would
make it, relying on us thinking that." "This player is incriminated by the nightkill. But maybe that's what scum want us to think. Yet maybe because scum know we'd think that, they would do it anyway." And so on and so forth.

You can make anything into a wifom argument. Does this mean that WIFOM is inherently useless? Not necessarily. But for me, I separate WIFOM out into "good wifom" and "bad wifom". Good WIFOM is
thinking critically about the circumstances to figure out which action in the situation is more likely to apply
. An easy way to think about this is to look at the player(s) in question; does it look like they are actively trying to manipulate thoughts into one half in particular of the wifom argument, especially if that half is the one less likely to be by default true?

Bad WIFOM is
violating Ockham's Razor to dismiss an argument because scum COULD do something, ignoring whether they
would
.

Perhaps an easy way of comparing bad wifom versus good wifom is to look at the classical example of a criminal being chased by a cop. The criminal has a choice in paths between a dark alleyway where they have a 50% chance of escape and a lit passage where they will 100% be caught. If the cop chooses wrong, the criminal escapes. Good wifom would work by critically analyzing what the panicked crook is likely to think of in the heat of the situation.

Is it more likely for the crook to think, "Oh! Light! I should go that way in spite of it being more of a risk, because the cop will think I'll go into the dark and that means I can get a clean getaway!"
...Or is it more likely for the crook to think, "Oh! Darkness! Safety! If I go into the dark, then the cop won't be able to reliably pinpoint me!"

The answer in most situations will be the latter, because it is simpler and more primal. Most criminals are not masterminds who think of complicated, contrived plots which twist the boundaries of logic. They are driven by the easiest, most direct path. Bad wifom in that situation could be assuming the criminal will go into light to mess with probability, but in my experience is actually more something akin to, "I can't know which way the crook went, so I might as well not try": the cop stopping and deciding not to even bother.

It's impossible to not play the wifom game because
everything you evaluate is off of assumptions
. You assume players are confirmed town. You assume events happen in certain ways. You assume motives behind actions. You assume certain things to be true, and others to not be true. Even after a player's alignment has flipped, you still make assumptions. You assume that town players flipped told the truth unless you have evidence to the contrary, and if you have that evidence to the contrary, everything said evidence means is an assumption on your part. You assume mafia mostly lie but with some inherent element of truth.

And when assumptions are present, interpretation enters the equation. With interpretation present, alternative interpretations are possible. With alternative interpretations possible, guesses as to what scum did and are doing must be made. And with guesswork comes the "what it means" and "what to do" elements of wifom. Because of situation A, scum have choice B. Choice B leads to either C or D. And therefore, we must figure out whether it is C or D we're dealing with.

If someone is making an argument that C is the logical choice but because of weird reasoning E the scum chose D, they are employing bad wifom, the logical fallacy. If someone is making an argument that because both C and D are possible, situation A cannot be analyzed, they are using bad wifom in the form of wifom as a buzzword. But if someone is making an argument weighing the pros and cons of C and D and explains why they think C is overwhelmingly the more likely of the two, that is good wifom, and thus, not something to be ignored.

In summary:
Because everything
could
be done by scum, the job of a town player is to figure out what the scum
did
do and
why
they did it.

See Also:
Let's talk about WIFOM, an older article following a similar principle to what I've outlined here.
Refined in This Wiki Page, Everything Is WIFOM.
I wrote that (bleeped because bleep the mod) article.

And the scum's usage of it in a woefully inappropriate manner.
Is proof that I'm not scum.
Because as scum I'd educate them on my theory.
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Post Post #4697 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:15 pm

Post by Cerberus v666 »

mastina, you should really spend your time on something other than this.

Seriously.

Not productive at all, and it's not going to actually convince anyone.

If town, do things that find us scum so your mislynch doesn't lose us the game.
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Post Post #4698 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:17 pm

Post by Elena Fisher »

Part of me wishes I wasn't playing on Elena so I didn't have to read every little thing posted because this is just becoming insane.
@Torque
I'm quite shocked you of all people scumread me. Why is that?
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Post Post #4699 (ISO) » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:18 pm

Post by mastina »

On that note.
In post 321, mastina wrote:Bad WIFOM is
violating Ockham's Razor to dismiss an argument because scum COULD do something, ignoring whether they
would
.
Because everything
could
be done by scum, the job of a town player is to figure out what the scum
did
do and
why
they did it.
Sound familiar?
It (bleeped because bleep the mod) should.

There's a DAMN (bleeped because bleep the mod) good reason that I've said.
"Scumastina could do anything, but you need to figure out what she WOULD do and WOULDN'T do".

THIS ARTICLE WAS LITERALLY THE (bleeped because bleep the mod) SOURCE OF THAT PHILOSOPHY.
THIS ARTICLE WAS THE BIRTH OF ME USING THAT (bleeped because bleep the mod) PHRASE.
THIS ARTICLE WAS WHERE THAT IDEA CAME FROM.

THAT IDEA.
THAT I HAVE (bleeped because bleep the mod) PREACHED.
THE ENTIRE (bleeped because bleep the mod) GAME.

ORIGINATED.

FROM MY ARTICLE ON HOW EVERYTHING IS WIFOM AND THUS WHY THE TERM NEEDED TO MORE OR LESS BE DROPPED.

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