Mini 2074: Madness at Port Arthur (Game Over)

[Chara]

hello everyone! nice to see those of you i know.
VOTE: irrelephant

[Chara]

hello everyone! nice to see those of you i know.
VOTE: irrelephant

Man what a boring vote
Not only is it on obvtown but you’re super missing out on a quality wagon over here!!
Stop having FOMO and start joining the best RVS wagon!

but i like voting obvtown!
besides, i don't vote skitter day one. she deserves bettern or something. :>

[Chara]

@insomnia w0w that wasn't enough for you? I've shown you my transformation sequence... and everything. Rude

@Persival I feel like I would answer that differently if I wasn't in the hydra lmao
I dunno, I don't care about it

@Irrelephant We DID forget to mention that its a hydra... yeah man thats on us

- March

hi March! i'll... try to figure out who you are. i'm plenty bad at that.

[Chara]

VOTE: Shiidaji
i feel the exact opposite about his elephant/Percy proposal!

regarding jailkeepers: mod posts do seem to imply they're town. not locked, but good enough, especially with the mechanics surrounding mutual protection.

[Chara]

i like them too. it's cute.

Shiidaji: i liked insomnia's entrance and agreed with what he said about both elephant and Percy, two players i'm townreading so far. and he feels good, feels organic.
you feel marginally less good and less organic with the focus you've chosen right now, and i have to echo insomnia's point of you appearing to make judgements based on what you think someone's playstyle should be rather than what it actually is. you can contrast that with what i feel from insomnia with a genuine desire to understand.

it's great to see you as well! i hope we can have a fun game together again. <3

[Chara]

Hi I'm around

VOTE: Chara

Her posts are dull.

the only time a vote has hurt my feelings so... deeply.

[Chara]

I know you, or rather your likely alter ego! Im actually kind of proud of my most recent game you were in!

hm, now i'm interested. who do you believe my alter ego is? i don't mind being "outed".

[Chara]

hahaha. i haven't played on that account since october of 2017!
yes, that's me. it's linked in my sig.

[Chara]

@Chara What do you think of me so far in this game?

no real opinion so far, besides that you look sort of similar to our last game. it doesn't mean much to me either way when i don't have too much experience with you.

[Chara]

So sorry for the misgender tris!
Chara why do you townread me

you're a good player and i have some knowledge of your scumgame. innocent until proven guilty is good for me.
same sort of situation as skitter.

[Chara]

i could go into it further, but i don't see a reason to start talking about how i think you should be read as scum when i don't need to.

[Chara]

skitter! i want to know how you feel about me. it's not a fair question, seeing as i'm giving you a pass because i believe your town and scum games are rather similar on day one, but i'm curious anyway.

[Chara]

Clarity! it's been a little while since i've played a newbie. does it feel different?
usual pattern: i'll either obvtown to you or you'll be paranoid of me all game. but seeing as we don't know each other i hope it's the first if you're town.
lately i've been getting excited about new players. site health and all.

[Chara]

elephant after my own heart. except for Clearly.

[Chara]

i was going to put some effort in here, but then skitter did town things and i decided i could rest instead.

also, as someone who holds onto its vote far too much, i don't find insomnia's not immediately voting to be a bad thing, really.

[Chara]

awkward charisma, interesting contributions. in four words.

[Chara]

though i'm not sure of the scum motivation of ceejay finding a problem with me, then unvoting once the problem had been resolved. the post he quoted was the first one that really held any thought process from me.

[Chara]

skitter did town things and i decided i could rest instead.

tell me more

i did. i gave you four more words!

[Chara]

125[post] and [post]244.
i'm still keeping an eye on skitter, but i don't think unnecessary paranoia is helpful after our last game.

[Chara]

oof. those links.
what prompted the vote change?

and: paranoia makes my heart sad. and also has really never lead me anywhere especially fruitful.

[Chara]

mod: v/la this weekend!

i should still be around, however.

[Chara]

i'll never understand the business of saying one head of a hydra is scummy but not the whole hydra. usually that just means it's a personality thing.
and i'm townreading Smile, but that's besides the point.

[Chara]

i don't know if scum Clearly would keep talking about experience anxiety here.

[Chara]

i tend to like townreading stream of thought word vomit. reminds me of myself.

[Chara]

hey everyone! back from the weekend.

[Chara]

i'll also be here tomorrow. sorry guys.

[Chara]

oh, and given another game just ended, i'm more comfortable saying i townread Fuscezu, and i agree with skitter's take that you quoted there.

[Chara]

Smile: weak townread, if they're scum i think they're doing a good job with having multiple heads show little stress.
Clearly: stronger than Smile, anxiety is more often linked to scum than town, even from a newbie perspective. i thought Clearly's multiple mentions of it could be towny. it could also be evidence she's trying to skirt by on it.
Fuscezu: behaviours i was trying to figure out in the other game, and that i was also seeing her, ending up being towny behaviours that i just didn't agree with, so seeing them here a second time is a good sign.

pedit: hi!

[Chara]

can we do Shiidaji next?

[Chara]

wait, you're doing this in list order. i'll just do my thing then.

[Chara]

okay, organization isn't really my thing so bear with me. i'm aware Shiidaji siteflaked but i think the content left here before the replacement is readable.
Fuscezu is the townread of those three i have the most confidence in, but it's off of one game of meta so it's not locked yet.

[Chara]

i voted Shiidaji to see what he did about it. my impression of him as town is a strong entrance with opinions that don't follow the crowd. his initial pick of Percy/elephant follows that.
his ISO isn't long so it's not too hard to look at. he explained how he came up with Percy/elephant scum, but after Percy explained why he didn't go after elephant, he switches to appealing to Percy.

his last post before disappearing is an appeal to me for my vote to explain his position, which is something i've done as town many a time, but feels sort of showy. it's true we had a good game together last time, but the question about insomnia, while relevant, feels like the sort of discussion question you don't level at the player scumreading you, and when i read it i wondered if it was put there to look like solving.

i wanted to pressure him, but with the disappearance i can't, nor can i discuss with him to see where his head's at.
i also didn't like the elephant case being about the jailkeeper thing because that was one item in an ISO that, at the time, was not just mechanical content. i never got the sense Shii was thinking deeply about what he said.

i'm looking forward to the replacement here.

[Chara]

oh, and i'd put him at nullscum.

[Chara]

i can see where you're at with Shii, at least.
skitter is a big one, she has a very large ISO and my history with reading her is... let's call it rocky. i don't think i could give a good rundown of her myself. but i do think she's town.

if there are reasons to scumread her that you have/find i'd be happy to focus in on those, however.

[Chara]

like before when she's been town, there have been times i've looked a skitter's posts and thought "hm, this one particular bit is giving me scumvibes". and it's pretty much always when she says something i find unnecessary. that's what i meant by "awkward charisma".
examples being the first half of 407, which is probably true but did make me worried that she actually did use similar wording to a towngame on purpose.
and then, the referencing of her paranoia of me in 335 felt again like a purposeful explanation of her thoughts meant to be townread rather than advance the game.

she also isn't really pursuing a scumread yet.

these are the three things that stand out to me when looking, the third of which i only noticed when looking.
but when i really think about it, skitter focusing on townhunting is in character, as is her saying things i want to scumread. she puts all of her thoughts out and doesn't hide them, which can lead to them seeming extraneous. the reason the awkwardness is important is because town skitter is not concerned with being scumread, while scum skitter is aware of her relative towniness and doesn't want to leave issues littering her play that could be used against her later.

as a whole, i like her ISO. the reason i give skitter a "wait and see" is because if she's scum, i don't believe she'll be able to maintain this as she has. i don't mean being burnt out by the game, but that she's going to feel more pressure in lategame as someone who, if scum, tends to be the scum that doesn't get caught and the one that needs to keep things that way.

in the absence of any glaring problems with her, i don't want to scumread her, because i don't think my way of doing so will get information out of her, as it hasn't done so in the past and has really just distracted from actual hunting.

you can tell me if this seems like bullshit or if it makes sense. :>

[Chara]

Mm those aren't bad reasons, actually.

Chara when you get a chance can you explain what exactly about a recently completed game gives you reason to townread fuscezu?

going to be busy until the evening, but you can check my larger posts around the end of Forkbomb mafia regarding Fusco.

[Chara]

i'm not sure about tris. it's not that i find her towny, it's that i find her feel very similar to our last towngameand i don't really know how to deal with that.
second that scum skitter doesn't fight me. both of us would appeal to each other as scum v. town, i think.

[Chara]

elephant's town.

[Chara]

Yes good point. If I provide my reads and reasoning you will all be compelled to tell me which townies I am allowed to mislynch, and I will do so with no problem.

Like I'm flattered at the level of manipulation you think I 'm having but so far none of the things you've said I'm aiming for have happened, aside from Chara providing some skitter and shiidaji reads at my request.

If you're going to scumread me for providing content because "oOOooOOooO the rest of us might interact with the content!!!" then I don't know what game you would like me to play. Solitaire?

also, this.
saying scum is hunting around for mislynches is too vague when you consider that elephant's making readable content and isn't just pushing others for it. townhunting isn't scummy, it's a major playstyle that's extremely popular, it's a NAI activity. scum elephant is towny enough and smart enough to figure out who's mislynchable by reading the thread, he doesn't need to shop around on day 1.

[Chara]

i have a bad habit of townreading scum who've made mistakes as lynchbait, so i'm not comfortable townreading ceejay for it. i'll leave him at null.

pedit: that being what Percy said about pressing someone upon replace-in? i see the concept, but it's not that so much. mainly it's the lack of a player i want to pounce on right now. i'd really like to see those replacements.
and Shiidaji slot is still a player i suspect, so.

[Chara]

Mm those aren't bad reasons, actually.

Irrelephant — you were one of the four people who commented on my post, and subsequently, one of the people I'm going to have on my radar. I'm far more defensive on this than I should be but when one-third of the game is scumreading me for my intro post I have to wonder what exactly is up with it that makes it so off. Please elaborate.

why does this make you think there's scum in the group of players who didn't like your intro post?

i might have missed you already talking about this, but that sort of post is (historically) one that could come from scum and could be poked at at the beginning of the game. and by that i mean commenting on the speed of the game like that.
the fact that it's this many players should tell you it's NAI, unless you think scum as a whole was going after it.

[Chara]

the more hydra heads, the less each head participates.
where are you at, Beauty?

[Chara]

the experience of Flavor replacing in on a scumread... this is my first time. i don't like it!

[Chara]

i'm also thinking i know who March is now. 312 in particular is one i remember liking.

i also like insomnia's last three posts here. i don't remember if i had a read on him before.

[Chara]

i'll admit there's a part of me that's worried i'm simply townreading active posters, but then that just makes me worry about skitter and i think that's really foolish on day 1. if you're town it's on you to show it, is my thinking.

Percy's push on tris is objectively a good push to make, but my experience with tris makes me not want to agree with it. i wish i knew how tris approached scum in a general sense. if anyone has input please let me know.

[Chara]

Chara’s also probably scum.

Thoughts, Chara?

i'd tunnel you hard if you kept this read throughout the game, are my thoughts. i think my no-mislynch pattern can beat you.
i was worried, but since you've already claimed 3p, i don't need to worry about you being town anymore. now it's down to you actually being scum, vs. you being a 3p that may or may not help us. the eventuality of 1v1ing town Flavor is off the table. i don't think i'm that good at reading you, and the experience that sticks in my head is that scumgame where i figured out you were scum just in time to be nightkilled and for us to lose. the one with the inno mislynch.

but i am still pretty wary of scum you so i'll see where your content goes!

[Chara]

if you are on town's side i expect you to fix your reads at some point, but either way i don't think pressuring you to get a better idea will work, so it is a little annoying. :>
but i like playing with you! make no mistake about that.

[Chara]

I’m the one that was mislynched there, though, so i don’t understand this thought process.

i'm confused, what does you being mislynched have to do with your scumread on RC becoming a townread in that game?

[Chara]

Why is me being town claiming 3rd party off the table here?

I’m not. I’m just 3rd party, but yeah. I’ll win with town, and you can lynch me later in the game to prove it.

because i wouldn't believe you if you claimed town later. even if i thought of the possibility i wouldn't take any actions that put faith into it.
unless you really really towned it up, i suppose?

[Chara]

I don’t understand your question. That was in response to Irrelephant saying I’m the one who misread him when I’m the one that was mislynched.

pretty sure he was talking about you misreading each other, to which you responded that you were misread because of your RC scumread (and not believed), but then later called RC town in lylo and got mislynched.

so unless elephant is lying about you two tunneling each other, i'm confused about the issue there.
but i also wasn't in the game, so.

[Chara]

Off of one entrance claim? Noted.

i'm not really a gambler.

[Chara]

tris - her play reminds me * a lot* of the scumgame we finished last week.

In what ways?

the questioning-but-not-really-engaging thing that you're doing, like right here
most of your questions don't seem to lead anywhere

this was my exact impression of tris from Anuket, and i'm not seeing a real difference. she was also pushed there for that, and i remember scumreading her for it.
are there any differences between the two?

[Chara]

of course reads should evolve, your reads on each other were my point.
it's a gamble to me. you gambit as scum, too. is the value you have as town worth more than the risk of you being scum? is the loss of mislynching you scary enough that i'll hesitant to lynch there? that's the sort of thing i'd think about.

i could ask you a similar question. do you really think town me wouldn't react as i did upon you replacing in for a scumread? considering i don't read you well.

you'll notice i never said i was planning on lynching you. i don't even scumread you. but if you claim town i'll continue to treat you as a likely either 3p or scum, rather than town or scum, since this game is borderline bastard and it seems a likely enough role. it's just safer. i've been burned by "friendly" 3p claims before.

[Chara]

But then otoh if he’s scum (and I do sorta scumread his entrance) then I shouldn’t be giving him any room to breathe I should be lynching him as hard as I can which sounds like an unfun road to travel down

i feel this. but i don't think scum Flavor is one you catch so early, so i'm not worried about it. maybe that's defeatist?
there's other things to do, it doesn't need to be all about Flavor (though i'll admit i've been engaging in a lot of rather fluffy chitchat because he's here while i am. :>)

pedit: if that's in answer to my question, i'll take is as proof that we don't know each other that well yet and leave it at that. maybe that will change this game.

[Chara]

i had forgotten how i felt about Persivul but on a reread i still like him. tris i don't townread so much as i haven't been grabbed by reasons to scumread her considering our last game together.
elephant's town as i said.
skitter, i've admittedly not been reading her posts as closely for AI information as i should have been, recently. (as in to read her. i have been reading the posts, skitter.)
RC, i remember reading somewhere in this game that Flavor is pretty good at reading him. is that true?

pedit: that's good to hear.

[Chara]

that's a no then?

[Chara]

VOTE: Smile

[Chara]

if tris is scum then great job, but if she's town i'm kind of hating the wagon there besides Persivul, who i think has good reasons for voting.
also kind of disappointed nobody commented on my naked Smile vote, but alas.

[Chara]

by hating the wagon i should clarify that i find the votes on it scummy, specifically.

[Chara]

i don't know; i have to go back and check
of the scumgame and anuket i remember the scumgame better (i guess cuz it was more recent) so that's what i'm comparing against. i don't remember how the the towngame compares to the scumgame but i'll take a look at her iso in anuket again when i have a chance

did you get a chance to look?

when i pointed out that her game here looks similar to Anuket i was expecting some sort of explanation as to why it also looking similar to her scumgame was AI and what the difference was.
Percy's reasons i think are fine and if i hadn't played with tris before i might also think that, but i haven't really seen any reasons that aren't null to me and considering your experience with her i expected something more.

[Chara]

day 2 IC isn't good enough to not lynch, sorry. i haven't read much beyond that (and that's on me).
1003 makes me disbelieve the claim completely, anyway.

[Chara]

Smile's attitude i think comes from town more than scum in a vacuum, but the degree of certainty with which i can say that isn't good enough that i'd want to move the wagon or try to hit Fusco instead.
and their arguments aren't great, i'm also kind of ignoring all of the "meta" seeing as i don't know who this is and elephant doesn't seem to either. it's not hard to forget a game you shared when the description you're going off is so vague, Beauty. (it's that one, right)

[Chara]

you're not a duck, penguin, or zebra, right? 'Cause those are the only three dramatic reveals I can think of that would break my read on you

Relly is now trying to backpedal by implying he thinks he thought I was a different person as though he doesn't know who I am. This is not something someone asks *after* making a meta argument. This is something someone asks when they realize their mislynch is an IC.

i also don't really get this point or how you came up with it.
the only way elephant could use this to backpedal would be if it would give him some sort of out. unless you actually are one of these three players (it's very obvious you aren't) he can't exactly use that.

if you are town i'm sorry this happened to your hydra, but you can't only rely on others being active so that you don't have to be. and one active head in a hydra is enough to be a player in a game.

[Chara]

Mᴀᴅɴᴇꜱꜱ

ᴀᴛ Pᴏʀᴛ

Aʀᴛʜᴜʀ

Moderator: funkybike1 ⋄ Backup Moderator: brassherald

Spectator thread is open. If you're not playing in the game and you wish to spectate, PM me.

Spoiler: Alive (13/13)

ceejayvinoya
Chara
ClearlyClarity
Fuscezu
insomnia
Irrelephant11
Brown Eyes

(replacing Miss Kobayashi Maru)

Persivul
RCEnigma
Flavor Leaf

(replacing Shiidaji)

skitter30
Smile
tris

Spoiler: Dead (0/13)

you can forget what i said about towny attitude, i think it's just NAI attitude.
i have more reads now but i'll hold off on them as they're irrelevant to approaching deadline.

[Chara]

if that's real and you're town, Smile, i'm really really pissed.
if Smile is scum i'm okay with it.

[Chara]

FL's wincon is probably not real because i don't think Lady Luck would be so kind to him, but i'm worried if the venge is because i wanted to work with elephant again. on the town side this time.

[Chara]

Man, Chara's so scum here.

you're the one who cheered at the murder of a majestic elephant. who's the

real

scum here?

[Chara]

you're allowed to post until the mod announces you're dead.

pedit: still don't believe you.

[Chara]

Flavor isn't answering if he'll leave the game or not because he hasn't won yet and can't be that free with his answers.

and i take umbrage to being an afterthought in your list, RC. :<

[Chara]

that's because i was gone for a bit during the latter half of the day.

i didn't scumread FL before, any more than i did because he replaced Shiidaji, but it's pretty obvious to me he's lied about his win because he's still very much in the game as a player by his actions.

[Chara]

hey skitter, why is your only question to me my comment about Smile's attitude being towny, and literally nothing else, including the part where i retract that comment unprompted upon thinking further?

also weird that you didn't seem to notice my Smile vote or what it meant with respect to keeping that wagon healthy, in spite of scumreading Smile.

and that many of your thoughts upon catching up are similar to mine, besides the Clearly scum comment.

[Chara]

i thought you weren't town here? :>

[Chara]

i also kind of thought you would put more stock into elephant's opinion of me in this game considering he's actually been scum with me before, and i believe he mentioned that.

i also don't know if i scumread FL anymore because i don't see the point in doing his best to annoy the players who would have to townread him for him to live.
but i don't trust 3Ps either. haha.
if Smile does flip scum i do think i would consider FL groupscum less likely, too.

[Chara]

hey skitter, why is your only question to me my comment about Smile's attitude being towny, and literally nothing else, including the part where i retract that comment unprompted upon thinking further?

also weird that you didn't seem to notice my Smile vote or what it meant with respect to keeping that wagon healthy, in spite of scumreading Smile.

and that many of your thoughts upon catching up are similar to mine, besides the Clearly scum comment.

i noticed that you retracted it later, sorry, didn't comment on it; was reading sequentially

idk what else should i have asked you about

i'm not sure what you're saying about the bolded (specifically wrt 'keeping that wagon healthy'). kinda forgot that you were on the wagon while i was reading thru

your thoughts feel kinda ~fakeable~ and shallow. at no point did i think to myself 'wow chara's really saying what i'm thinking'

if you think Smile's scum, that i went there when i did and avoided both the tris and the Fusco wagons should be telling enough. it's technically moot until they flip, but i'm going with the mindset that you believe they're flipping scum.
i kind of don't see the point in announcing that you aren't townreading me if you don't know what i'm doing. i sort of had the impression you would at least have checked.

[Chara]

Chara does have a history of reading me correctly, as does RCEnigma.

can you remind me of games where i did? the last one i remember scumreading your slot until you were lynched. you flipped town.

[Chara]

I also recently won another scum game with Eddie Cane, and that game came up again because that made 2 games where Eddie and I beat ScumCowbells, which is another reason it came up recently on site.

i love the completely irrelevant mentions of your past wins sprinkled throughout your ISO.

[Chara]

it was a game where you sort of flaked and your hydra partner was the only one posting by the end, so i'm not surprised you don't remember.
and in the role cop game, i feel like i only became so sure you were scum because you had already made your move and all but sealed your win, and i recognized that. but too late to do anything about it after you had screwed me over.
it did make me paranoid it would happen again in every subsequent game, though.

all i can say right now is i think you're less likely to be scum than when i started today, but my multiple bad experiences with both 3p claims and the "lying town" type of players would make it pretty hard for me to work with you from this point onwards without something changing.

[Chara]

Starcraft Mafia 2, that was the hydra game.

[Chara]

oh and also ellitell is a thing here, if people ascribe to that tell

i remember i wanted to ask how serious this was re: Clearly.

[Chara]

I'm kinda fine with a Clarity lynch because I agree with skitter's points about her meta. Otoh, her response that she'd be doing better if she has experienced partners rings sorta true, but there's situations where scum might bus her early or something so that's not exactly a clearing reason.
Can't shake the feeling Smile is a good lynch and skitter's avoiding it, though

i'm having a ridiculously hard time forming a read on them and would prefer to lynch someone i actually, like, scumread

i'm also not super happy that with five heads they're lurking

smile your vote is both bad and survivalistic given plurality and it's making me want to vote you

skitter going from this to trying to bus Smile after their lynch was already pretty inevitable is kind of bad. i also still hated skitter's tris push yesterday, and i still think tris is town.

when skitter started treating smile as confscum before they'd flipped, i'd thought skitter was scumreading them. but now that i'm fully caught up, skitter never supported the smile wagon until 913 here, but then after that seemed to be treating them as for sure flipping scum and making her reads accordingly.

[Chara]

I think scum might just be two of Clarity/CJ/Succinct

i'm not townreading any of this pool (and scumreading Clarity a bit), but i looked at skitter's behaviour around the tris and Smile wagons last night and didn't love it.

[Chara]

Skitter could be scum if that trio I listed really town it up/are cleared by PRs but there’s some not-bad distancing if so

tell me about the distancing?

also, i see why you have Clearly and cj (though i have no read on cj), but i'm going to look for why you have Succinct slot. it's possible i'm still missing pages but i don't believe so.

[Chara]

can you go over the s/s associations with Clarity and Smile?

i also don't know if i buy skitter's interactions with Smile there. they aren't hard to fake, while behaviour that actually has to do with who gets lynched in the end (end of day behaviour in this case, when plurality wagons were moving) is more convincing to me.

pedit: i mean, that's possible. if i remember correctly, March said they only had experience with me as a player, but i have no idea who they are.

[Chara]

come to think of it, March has a

lot

of interactions with skitter. who else did March engage with a lot?

[Chara]

Idk I’m on mobile so I don’t remember what my spreadsheet showed for some slots
I wanna say skitter/Smile and RCE/Smile were the similar ones?

i'll take a look at Smile/RCE.

Smile wanted insomnia/tris/fuscezu lynched
All three participated in catching Smile dead
If one of those three is scum they planned a bus from real early on

you're right. i'm townreading them independently of that, thanks for the reminder. i would only relook there if we seemed to be off-track.

i'm also of the opinion that first-day scum lynches can be the death of town. i've talked about this before. the first day is the easiest day to put down good associations with buddies, and negative associations with town.

i'm still unimpressed with skitter's tris scumread when i found tris to be very towny, and skitter's paranoia of me also didn't seem especially paranoid. this is weakened by my absence during day 1, however.

will look again at skitter's Clearly case, though.

[Chara]

so, upon ISOing RC and Smile together: everything sort of depends on Clearly's alignment here. if she's town, i actually have my guess at the remaining scum as skitter/RC. if she's scum i'm not sure.

and insomnia is fairly unlikely scum with Smile's push there, as you said.

[Chara]

You:

i'm also of the opinion that first-day scum lynches can be the death of town. i've talked about this before. the first day is the easiest day to put down good associations with buddies, and negative associations with town.

Me:

125[post] and [post]244.
i'm still keeping an eye on skitter, but i don't think unnecessary paranoia is helpful after our last game.

i'm not sure what your point is here?

[Chara]

Never gave enough reason to put Smile up high

you don't think Clearly would put the only townread she explained fully up high on her readlist?

[Chara]

Sometimes town just wins real good. No reason to think I’m way off track if I’ve lynched scum and haven’t yet lynched town

my skitter scumread isn't paranoia, it's a scumread. paranoia means i think she's still being towny.

and your attitude here is exactly what i was afraid of. lynch one scum and you think you're "winning real good" already? we've only started.

[Chara]

Didn't dive too deep into smiles case on fusco whom I think is town. I remember thinking smile was indirectly deflecting from CC with the vote and even though I think CC is town... It's a believable team.

for some reason i had thought it was more than this. but throwing out this comment is what had me wondering if RC wanted to pivot onto a town CC.
if CC is scum i would be surprised for skitter to also be scum, yes. same with RC, actually.

[Chara]

VOTE COUNT

7 of 13 votes are required to lynch.

Smile (3):

insomnia, tris, Chara

Fuscezu (3):

Brown Eyes, ClearlyClarity, Smile

ClearlyClarity (2):

skitter30, Irrelephant11

tris (1):

RCEnigma

RCEnigma (1):

Fuscezu

Irrelephant11 (1):

Flavor Leaf

Flavor Leaf (1):

Persivul

Not Voting (1):

ceejayvinoya

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-05-22 12:00:00)

smile your vote is both bad and survivalistic given plurality and it's making me want to vote you

i agreed with skitter when she said this. Smile didn't even towncase Clearly, they gave some reasons for her to be town and then said it wasn't that strong and could still be scum.
votecount is directly after Smile's Fuscezu vote. notice anything?

[Chara]

I thought my/RCE’s slowly developing townreads on each other was pretty town-indicative for him
If Clarity is scum (which I think Smile’s refusal to vote her at EOD suggests) I don’t think skitter has done anything scummy

Smile's "refusal" to vote CC means very little when the two players (Fuscezu and tris) they stated they wanted over CC are also likely town.

[Chara]

I mean I have one scum dead and four townreads of high confidence
I’m not just going to assume my townreads are wrong because that has happened to other people other times
So I feel pretty good about where I’m at and the gamestate, yes

I see what you’re saying about skitter. I don’t disagree skitter might be scum. I just think a wagon on Clarity is better at this time. Do you disagree that if {Clarity, skitter} has exactly one scum the higher information wagon is likely to be on Clarity?

i don't disagree. but if Clarity flips town then skitter is scum, and you get to tell me i was right. how's that?

[Chara]

The main thing I’m nervous about is a 3P so whoever’s scum should probably find them so that you can have one more day to live

why are you nervous about 3p more than scum, anyway?

[Chara]

What should I be noticing there’s a lot to notice
Also I disagree, I think it’s very meaningful; I said already and will reiterate that I think Clarity was way more lynchable than Fuscezu, so air they’re both town I wouldn’t expect Smile to intentionally differentiate them and push on Fus

Pedit: I mean I’ll tell you you’re right but I said it too

but you want to lynch Clarity and i want to lynch skitter. that's the point.

and i feel like you're missing that from Smile's perspective, their slot was already townreading CC, so it would look much worse to pivot onto them than it did to go to Fuscezu. even if it looked bad anyway.

[Chara]

i don't really want to vote someone i don't think is scum, because there's no way she is if i'm right on skitter. and why would you be willing to push skitter later?

[Chara]

i'm not sure of who else i want to discuss. most of the playere who actually have content out are pretty tied into the alignments of these two, and also Smile associations.
i have a pet scumread on Succinct, but they haven't done much to go over. it's full gut.

[Chara]

If I have reason to townread Clarity later (like, say, her extremely towny reaction and/or claim after getting wagoned right out of the gate this gameday) then skitter sure would look scummier
I’m losing my townread on you, voting Clarity who might be town is 0% dangerous for town!you
My spreadsheet actually told me scum was you/Clarity and I didn’t want to believe it, maybe I should have

and now you're trying to scare me into voting Clarity with you?
it's not "dangerous", i don't vote players unless i have a reason to. you asking me to isn't a good enough reason.

you're also not helping me with skitter, but i understand why because wanting to vote the player you're actually scumreading makes much more sense than deciding to go along with somebody else.

[Chara]

it's not "might", it's, "i think skitter is scum and you're asking me to vote someone who's never scum if she is."
why the hell would i, elephant?

[Chara]

i could say the same to you.
VOTE: skitter

[Chara]

i said that before i remembered that they can't be scum together.

[Chara]

Lol you weren’t even voting skitter?
And for the record “my townread asked me to” is a STELLAR reason in the game of mafia to place a vote on someone who you basically just said you scumread

no, i realized that after you voted. we all make mistakes.

and i don't really want to talk about it anymore. we can argue in post if you want. to be honest, you keep saying "Chara and CC could be scum together" and yeah, it does make me lose trust in your read there. considering i had absolutely no reason to bus Smile when i did if i'm scum.

[Chara]

But like, it feels like pre-skitter-flip you’ve entirely lost your scumread on Smile because of a certainty skitter will flip scum
So unless you have a guilty on skitter your play re/Clarity has stopped making much sense to me as town

i'm assuming you mean my scumread on Clarity? which, for the record, amounted to "she seems really nervous" and literally nothing else.
while with skitter, i hated her tris wagon, you made a good point how she was avoiding the Smile wagon, and her paranoia of me given i gave her a blanket townread and

barely

explained why wasn't good enough for me.

pedit: i don't want to argue about this anymore.

[Chara]

why did i bus Smile in your evidence based spreadsheet?

pedit: fine, ask it.

[Chara]

it does. i already said i understand your position.

[Chara]

answer my question now?

[Chara]

why did i bus Smile in your evidence based spreadsheet?

pedit: fine, ask it.

this was my question.

[Chara]

Okay
Seems we’re at a stalemate of sorts and I’m not willing to break that for now
No hard feelings if you’re town, I’m sure we’ll get past this uncomfy moment
And especially no hard feelings if you’re scum, you’ve done a great job getting me to back off

I’m gonna exit the thread now I think it’s time for some other voices

Pedit: wait did I miss a question or you still have one?

Hi RCE
Unfortunately Chara has my mind spinning so I’m gonna ignore your post aside from saying I think it’s a good post

for what it's worth, no one should be scumreading elephant after this whole thing. he's completely town.

and yes, no hard feelings. i really didn't mean to upset you.

i was thinking about offering to just go along with your Clarity thing, but skitter feels like the way harder sell so if i did that then i don't think she would get any attention at all.

[Chara]

Because you weren’t itt when Smile’s lynch was turning from “one of multiple options” to “the lynch for D1”

what's itt?

[Chara]

oh, in the thread.

[Chara]

VOTE COUNT

7 of 13 votes are required to lynch.

Smile (3):

insomnia, Irrelephant11, tris

RCEnigma (2):

skitter30, Fuscezu

Fuscezu (2):

Brown Eyes, ClearlyClarity

Irrelephant11 (2):

Flavor Leaf, RCEnigma

Flavor Leaf (1):

Chara

ceejayvinoya (1):

Smile

tris (1):

Persivul

Not Voting (1):

ceejayvinoya

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-05-22 12:00:00)

and i voted Smile when she was at L-3 to make it L-4. just for the record. i did leave the thread soon after due to rl, but that's a pretty stupid thing for me to do if i was scum with them.

[Chara]

er. i voted Smile to

make

it L-3. is what i was trying to say.

[Chara]

You know what would be funny
If skitter/Clarity is the the team and Skitter was just trying to save the scum partner she thought she could go further with in Smile by bussing Clarity
That would be funny

Pedit: itt is “in the thread”

it would be really funny. i'd feel kind of bad for skitter in that case.

[Chara]

i forgot to say, i received a delicious fruit last night. thanks!

[Chara]

you put someone at L-1 just for that?

[Chara]

i would like to see everyone check in before we go ending the day. maybe elephant's dream can be seen through.

[Chara]

well, not really. elephant only unvoted because skitter rocketed to L-1, i imagine.
even if she's scum, her getting lynched with little to no discussion is also no ideal.

pedit: no one has claimed. there's just RC's redirect thing and me receiving fruit.
FL claimed 3p upon replacing in and that was fun.

[Chara]

me neither! we have it in common.

[Chara]

when did that happen?

[Chara]

i forgot to say, i received a delicious fruit last night. thanks!

oh this was me btw

why did you choose me?

[Chara]

also, why would you claim fruit vendor here?

[Chara]

this is why you declare L-1 and also check the count before voting.

[Chara]

you weren't hammered, you're only L-2.
have to go to work, though.

[Chara]

I'm jailkeeper and the other JK is town. Jailed irrelephant last night

Maybe try to let me claim first next time, ye?

So how did I get a night result then..?

i'm starting to become convinced of your skitter/Clearly theory. haha.

[Chara]

when Clearly supposedly thought she was hammered, but then started "spewing herself town", it didn't feel like something that town who just got hammered would say. she was here before when explaining why she didn't explain her skitter vote, but it's only after she was "hammered" that she began to call out scumreading her at all, like in 1299.

[Chara]

it's also day 2, which, in a 9 player newbie game, usually means 7 players, not 9. and in this case, means 13 to 11. what's also strange is that she didn't look at any votecounts when figuring out votes to lynch, and instead counted them with the assumption of there being 9 players. it's... a really weird mistake to me. i might get it on day 1, but she must have played newbies where the votes to lynch went lower than 5, unless she kept dying day 1.

[Chara]

is anyone SRing skitter?

please read. yes.

[Chara]

insomnia's pretty town and i remember him doing more regarding the Smile wagon than just voteparking. that was me. :>

[Chara]

Hm
I lied about getting a night result
Just wanted to see reactions but I don’t necessarily want to start a massclaim train just to solve this puzzle
Ignoring the past couple pages I still want to lynch Clarity
But she did past my reaction test kinda

Clarity why did you vote Smile last gameday?

i was so excited about your night result. i thought you had a Clarity guilty and that's why you were annoyed with me earlier.

i didn't like her whole claim thing and thinking she was hammered, but now i'm not sure how to proceed.

[Chara]

i've got a bit of time now if anyone's here. i also owe skitter a response, i think.

[Chara]

i was going to say i hope Percy pops in soon, but he seems to be v/la. he's more likely town than not but i'd rather have more town playing than not, too.

[Chara]

skitter's fruit vendor: why not just send it to someone who you think is

town

? was it just that you thought i'd probably claim it regardless of my alignment? i know it's a fruit vendor, but still.

read on me: would you mind talking about that again when you're back? the process of "not townreading Chara" to realizing i was on Smile, to now townreading me. i found it helpful last game.

Fuscezu and Clearly were both at two votes. if we assume both are town, it's weird that Smile picked Fuscezu over Clearly because Clearly was more mislynchable and being pushed by elephant and skitter. however, Clearly was townreading Smile, and Smile was townrearing Clearly. scum alienating a supporter like that isn't good when trying to dodge the lynch, especially since it could result in Clearly's vote on Fuscezu moving to Smile. plus, it would pretty much spew Clearly as town if Smile reversed the read they had there in that position. i'm pretty sure Smile is experienced enough to know that. (or at least Beauty was)

so that's why i don't find Smile's choice in push to be particularly damning for Clearly.

pedit: i'm glad you didn't, because faking a guilty sucks.

[Chara]

i've changed my mind a bit. where i'm at right now, i don't mind sacrificing another mislynch when Clearly will probably remain a point of contention in the future, even if i don't strongly believe she's scum and could be wrong on that. but in the absence of a guilty from you i no longer think Clearly/skitter is a very likely team.

still, as a player, i don't want to vote Clearly for that reason... it goes against what seems right to me to do, even if it could also be the right decision even on her townflip.

[Chara]

b) i bus and distance better than this, thank you; if i were partners with him i wouldn't have a half-assed distancing like this, knowing that i'd like bad if he flipped, esp. since he was just a goon. i know that in most scumteams i need to set myself to go for endgame if i want to win - and when i knwo what people are going to flip it's pretty easy to make myself look good afterwards.

c) i'm not convinced that tris is town

b) actually, i thought your distancing was pretty good. elephant pointed it out. i know you wouldn't want to straight bus Smile until you thought you needed to. but you did have a lot of interactions that looked good.
i also don't believe it would be possible to know Smile was going to flip until that point.

c) this sounds like a fun thing to talk about when you're back.

[Chara]

Faking guilties is too risky though and I don’t have practice making those kinds of risks work
I figured I could at least see what happened if the playerlist thought her claim was fake

Clarity’s reaction in retrospect is more indicative of a true claim than of town, necessarily...
I still think her vote on Smile, Smile’s treatment of Clarity, and Clarity’s naked skitter vote are all very scum indicative

Pedit: those are good points
I think I’m back to “Chara is town unless and until Clarity flips scum, in which case Chara is probably still town but less sure”

i was actually tempted to fake a guilty on Flavor just to see his reaction, and make sure it didn't go to lynch. then i remembered it was Flavor Leaf and he would eat me and my bullshit alive.

[Chara]

VOTE COUNT

7 of 13 votes are required to lynch.

Smile (3):

insomnia, tris, Chara

Fuscezu (3):

Brown Eyes, ClearlyClarity, Smile

ClearlyClarity (2):

skitter30, Irrelephant11

tris (1):

RCEnigma

RCEnigma (1):

Fuscezu

Irrelephant11 (1):

Flavor Leaf

Flavor Leaf (1):

Persivul

Not Voting (1):

ceejayvinoya

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-05-22 12:00:00)

tris was on Smile before the Fuscezu vote, and after it. she did waver back and forth and they had a fair bit of interaction, that i would consider very

good

distancing from tris if scum.
Smile's claim was also absolutely a hail mary, though whether the scumteam really thought it would work remains another story. tris immediately revoted there (though she was already on the wagon as far as i can tell) when it happened, too.

[Chara]

VOTE: Clarity

never mind, i missed this. so not as strong as i thought.

[Chara]

my weakpoint: Clearly

leftovers: cj, RC, Succinct
scum: skitter

[Chara]

Welp.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Succinct

a) this is scummy if clearly is not scum imo
b) why succinct?

why isn't it scummy if she's scum?

[Chara]

it's just that if Clearly is scum fakeclaiming, i would still look at that unvote specifically.
are you still scumreading Clearly, by the way?

and skitter, i was saying i thought Clearly was faking the mistake. i don't really think that now, however.

[Chara]

i suppose i'll wait while you finish catching up.

points of interest for me would be your thoughts on Clearly, me, and tris, though for the latter you've talked a bit already.

pedit: they can.

[Chara]

it depends on the moderator. they have the same priority according to NAR. i'm not sure how i would handle it personally, but it would need to be decided beforehand who has priority or if they roleblock each other and so both don't act.

[Chara]

i think other roleblockers are possible. it may just resolve as roleblocking each other as i said.

[Chara]

who do you think the scum on your wagon were, skitter?

[Chara]

also i'd like to know why you aren't paranoid of me anymore. i sort of expected it considering my attempts to lynch you after townreading you earlier.

[Chara]

VOTE: cj

pedit: i have no read on Succinct, it's a null poe slot for me. if you're town it's a better pick for scum, however.

and you're right about that, i don't think i could win if i were scum trying to mislynch you.

pedit again: give me a moment.

[Chara]

b) if i were distancing with smile it wouldnt' look like this, this isn't good for my standards lol (i'm proud of my banner! and how i won it too!)

can you give me an idea of how it would look?

[Chara]

i feel like i was right on my initial assessment of town Clearly and got paranoid from her claiming tone.
i'll look those up when i have the time. i was more wanting a description of how you perceive your distancing prowess, however

[Chara]

P: OK Chara Ill warm up to you if that CJ vote is not just a trick of the maftiger. Votes arent highlighted here in TigerTown. And Q+ Doesnt exist . . .

why do you do this to yourself?
and it was a real vote.

[Chara]

is there anyone else voting cj right now besides fuscezu and i? i feel like there was.

[Chara]

no worries, i'll still be here. why the apology though?

this puts me in kind of a funny position though, because i didn't think my case on you was too strong, and in fact didn't have a good rebuttal when elephant pointed out your interactions with Smile looking like unlikely SvS. i'm not even sure what i did besides sheer stubbornness to get him to vote with me.

[Chara]

i'm still confident in town tris. but i would like to hear from her!

[Chara]

playing with maftiger. are you all caught up, Fuscezu?

[Chara]

skitter herself just admitted she had unfortunate positioning with smile and that i had ammo to attack her with out of the gate. did you read that part?

[Chara]

ok i'm caught up

chara what else do u want to talk about?

i was trying to think, i do want to interact with you more for a reason you probably know.
Fuscezu reminded me i've been sort of neglecting RC. is he still a scumread?

[Chara]

i still have things to say about tris that i haven't gotten around to yet, but i'll let Fuscezu and skitter go first.

[Chara]

that's fine, just skitter then. i townread you anyway, Fuscezu.

[Chara]

bolded: not quite sure what you mean

we've talked about your scum meta before regarding reql time interaction.

[Chara]

i did an extremely quick tris iso and got some good stuff out of it. do you think you could do the same?

[Chara]

oh, is that info in your PM?

[Chara]

oh. well there you go. other JK doesn't need to say anything, of course. (and please don't.)

[Chara]

that explains why the mutual protection rule is like that.

[Chara]

well, i was going to say i found her posting to be very genuine-feeling and i liked her thoughts as she placed them. especially ones relating to reads on her, which see appeared to want more of, in addition to heat. does tris like playing scum, would you say?

but upon ISOing her i realized her Clearly vote was pretty terrible at the time it came, and it seemed to me she was just trying to figure out a way to get off of Clearly after doing a distancing job. she only hopped back onto the wagon after Percy and elephant joined/pushed it.

[Chara]

well, i was going to say i found her posting to be very genuine-feeling and i liked her thoughts as she placed them. especially ones relating to reads on her, which see appeared to want more of, in addition to heat. does tris like playing scum, would you say?

but upon ISOing her i realized her Clearly vote was pretty terrible at the time it came, and it seemed to me she was just trying to figure out a way to get off of Smile after doing a distancing job. she only hopped back onto the wagon after Percy and elephant joined/pushed it.

EBWOP

[Chara]

UNVOTE:
just because i'm going to bed soonish and i have more to do tomorrow.

[Chara]

well she's definitely a fruit vendor, i can tell you that. not really AI though.

[Chara]

so, Clearly is a pending softclear (i hope), elephant's town, RC has shown me he's town.
insomnia and fuscezu look great on the Smile flip.

skitter, tris, cj, Succinct, and Persivul are left.
the pool is a bit too big for my liking... and Persivul is only there because my townread isn't backed up by associations or wagons.

pedit: never mind, Percy's town. thanks Percy.

[Chara]

i agree about the FL kill. it surprised me, but also sort of made me happy, since i wouldn't need to worry about him anymore. (sorry FL, i still really like playing with you.)

[Chara]

Percy, since you're caught up, would you give your opinion on my reads up there? it'd be appreciated before i do my thing.

[Chara]

i would probably have Fuscezu in there too were it not for some things relating to the day 1 wagons, coming out with the vote on skitter based on FL, and how he feels like the most genuine member of the cj wagon to me. but you're right, he's not as strong as the others. i would put him in your spot given these posts, i think.

VOTE: skitter
that's good enough for me. choo choo.

[Chara]

that's fine with me. i'm interested in Succinct's thoughts especially.
skitter scum points pretty obviously to one but not the other.

[Chara]

sorry to hear it, tris.

[Chara]

please declare L-1 when you vote it. :>

[Chara]

also i don't want to end the day yet either. but i appreciate the fervor!
Fuscezu/tris/Succinct has the last scum, i would say. conditional on Clearly as cleary clear.

[Chara]

this game was fun before i died!
i also thought scum had it in the bag here. gg to everyone.
not too happy with my cop play, but at least it helped murder my murderer.

elephant was an auto night 0 invest for me, haha.