BTE: Boon Wars - Attack of the Colognes

[Alisae]

You were doing fine till you started saying that 248 was a trap. You’re grasping at very thin straws. I’m town and I would have responded to 248 the same way.

why?

[Emperor flippyNips]

Hmmm. I don’t really trust alisae but i am wanting to trust ausuka. Which makes me indifferent about the elephant in the room.

[davesaz]

You say that scum are unlikely to do something that’s unlikely. Agreeing with a likely to be true statement makes someone scum?
It almost goes without saying that I’d also yell about giving scum advice but that’s me and I already did a few of my posts ago.

[Alisae]

Dave I hope you know what I meant was why would you respond to that post in teh same way?

[Alisae]

You say that scum are unlikely to do something that’s unlikely. Agreeing with a likely to be true statement makes someone scum?
It almost goes without saying that I’d also yell about giving scum advice but that’s me and I already did a few of my posts ago.

ok ty UNVOTE: [/yv]

[Alisae]

UNVOTE:

[Alisae]

You say that scum are unlikely to do something that’s unlikely. Agreeing with a likely to be true statement makes someone scum?
It almost goes without saying that I’d also yell about giving scum advice but that’s me and I already did a few of my posts ago.

see the logic im supposed to say is
"but he agreed so therefore he's signaling"
but what you're saying sounds way smarter then what I'm supposed to be saying.

and what I'm supposed to be saying is apparently what relly wanted me to do?

basically I went through this whole process like an idiot to prove that what he's saying doesn't make sense given what he posted.

[Alisae]

Like Dave this interaction between me and you is Relly's supposed reason for voting me from what I understand
he made that post because he wanted to see if I voted him
I didn't
so then he scumread me because he thought if I was town I would vote him.

His logic from my understanding is "its a post that is a trap to catch scum who would signal towards me"
But as I actually think (and what given the logic that you are currently giving me which I agree with), that its really stupid.
Town? Probably because I see myself having these "hah gottem" moments like what Relly tried to do all of the time, or atleast try to create those moments.

Also, by no means does "Agreed" to what he quoted look like a signal to me.

[davesaz]

This is an interesting one.
I think that saying that 247/248 was a trap for scum sounds fishy, and thinking that "agreed" in response is scum signaling looks like making up a reason.
At the same time, I think that posting "agreed" and then claiming later that it was a test to find out if you're laying a trap or signaling scum also looks like making up a reason.
So one possible interpretation is that you're both making up reasons to scumread the other. Both of you are claiming to have laid traps. It's a quasi-counterclaim position.
Another possible interpretation is that both of you were goaded into this by one or more 3rd parties, and you both fell for it badly.
It's not beyond the realm of possibility that you're both scum, and that was indeed a signal and an answer.

What's a thinker to do? Probably think some more, but after work tomorrow at the earliest. I have meetings with executives tomorrow and don't want to get riled up before bed.

[Nero Cain]

just b/c Baezu is lynchbait doesn't mean she can't be scum. FMPOV her "ok, I'll sheep" is just blatantly scum opportunistically bandwagoning me. She needs to come in and explain her vote.

[Enigma]

trs
nero

Why?

i forgot, maybe itll come back to me

it was the impression i got from catching up, maybe the exchange with alisae
but now looking back i cant quite see what it was

[Enigma]

But, like, Baezu's scumgame just isn't as bad as Creature's used to be. And I think that Baezu is town.

Okay so let me expand on the meta point Dave made about Baezu. Baezu, as town, is usually massive lynchbait and says weird things with an awkward tone, but is kind of relaxed at the same time. Baezu, as scum, is stiff and feels much more purposeful, feeling more obligated to justify her regular vote-hops. She doesn't have literally no clue how to play scum, she's actually better than me at it. Her meta would definitely seem to apply here as the multiball game below was much more similar to her scumgames than her towngames. I'll give some examples and you can tell me if you disagree.

yeh actually i agree
1. i have the impression that she really hates playing scum
2. once she is not afk, i think she is quite easy to sort

ftr im not town or scum reading her rn, im just saying that she is easy to read as the game progresses

[Enigma]

Hmmm. I don’t really trust alisae but i am wanting to trust ausuka. Which makes me indifferent about the elephant in the room.

+1

[Enigma]

just b/c Baezu is lynchbait doesn't mean she can't be scum. FMPOV her "ok, I'll sheep" is just blatantly scum opportunistically bandwagoning me. She needs to come in and explain her vote.

baezu was lynch bait in the last town game i had with her, playing exactly like how she is now

that being said, its incredibly hard to read without her response so ill reserve my thoughts for now

[Dr Worm]

You were doing fine till you started saying that 248 was a trap. You’re grasping at very thin straws. I’m town and I would have responded to 248 the same way.

AGREEEEE!!

I AM TROWN AND I DID REPSOND THE SAME WAY!!

[Dr Worm]

If it"s a TRAP why WASN"T IT SPRUNG??

[Irrelephant11]

let me start my catchup by QFT:

If it"s a TRAP why WASN"T IT SPRUNG??

[Irrelephant11]

Splitting this wall into multiple posts:

Yeah, looking back, Irrel’s chainsaw was pretty shit to be honest.

The emotion behind the posts was over the top and therefore fake.

It was early game, I was looking for something to push, didn't really believe it myself.

I’m not sure why some of you are following the other game intensely. It’s not by any means going to help your team win. Sure it’s nice to have someone to bounce reads off of, but in my experience, it’s very hard to stay engaged if you’re not actually playing.

I'll be passing this post on to my partner as something I don't think a member of a T/T pair would say.

@alisae: was your attention with the signalling thing literally just "weed out the bad townies"? if so, it seems like you've already made up your mind that we're all terrible, so why?

A. Spread awareness to Boon’s ruleset that 1-1 = joint win so looking for signaling is a good idea
B. Its significantly easier to look for scum who is pushing you if you put yourself in a very lynchbaity position. If you put yourself in a lynchbait position, you can try to figure out who is genuinely trying to figure out your alignment, while also try to figure out who is scum trying to lynch you.

WHY isn"t ANYBIDY talking about THIS SCUM POST??

A. why ""SPREAD AWARENESS"" about SIGNALLING?? WHY NOT KEEP SECRET and then EXPOSE SCUM WHEN YOU SEE SIGNALLING??

B. LOL!!

For some reason Dr Worm is the only one who understands my reaction to Alisae - I'll make a separate post about Alisae, and let this post be my catch up.

[Irrelephant11]

Ok i'm finally caught up and actually have reads.

{almost50, baezu, enigma, alisae}
{davesaz, firebringer, aristophanes}
{insomnia, LUV}
{nips} - null line
{irrelephant, WORM}
{Nero}

Currently I don't really like either wagon, although I haven't done as much thinking about insomnia as I have about Alisae; I'd prefer a Nero wagon but I'd also fairly happily settle for a Irre or Worm wagon.

@insomnia: is the implication that I'm scum being manipulated into defending them by the Ali/FB team or town being pocketed? If the latter, what changed?

Not sure what put me so low in your readslist here. I agree I hadn't surpassed my scum meta, but you've since said that you believe me when I say I'm busy, so it's not activity. What's the read based on? Why the strong townreads on enigma, alisae, and baezu?

90% of eir posts are concentrated on brushing off her voters by calling them trash. Barely focused on game solving.

It’s a fucking joke if we don’t lynch Alisae today.

Not maf/maf
Probably not maf/wolf either tbh
Townreading insomnia for the passion, too, maybe?

677 makes me sad

[Irrelephant11]

Ausuka didn’t even step in to stop any of this.

What do you want me to do?

he doesn't, he is using that justify his continuing push.

It is at this point that I decided that firebringer is here to pull down everyone's reads of everyone, and scumread him for it

the tone of this game just needs to shift.

but tru tho

[Irrelephant11]

Wagoning Nero Cain or Irrelephant I guess? That part's harder because we need more people.

Not sure why us two
Why aren't you scumreading Dr Worm for doing the same thing as me with the same reasoning? Surely if you think I'm worth wagoning he is too?

@LUV: dave's tone is relaxed and I think this is town!him taking his time to form reads. Sure, it may look like and empty ISO to you but that's nothing that warrants worrying just yet.

Agreed
Townlean on Almost50, townread on dave

PP seems town in contrast to our recent game where he was scum.

People joke-scumclaiming are going to screw up my reads. Same problem I have with Elsa Jay all the time, but this game several people did it. Note, it's somethin I know has happened but did not pay attention to who did it.

I can have a townlean on PP I think

[Irrelephant11]

like this honestly seems just as bad as creature's scumgame around when you could reliably read Creature off of his postcount

But, like, Baezu's scumgame just isn't as bad as Creature's used to be. And I think that Baezu is town.

Okay so let me expand on the meta point Dave made about Baezu. Baezu, as town, is usually massive lynchbait and says weird things with an awkward tone, but is kind of relaxed at the same time. Baezu, as scum, is stiff and feels much more purposeful, feeling more obligated to justify her regular vote-hops. She doesn't have literally no clue how to play scum, she's actually better than me at it. Her meta would definitely seem to apply here as the multiball game below was much more similar to her scumgames than her towngames. I'll give some examples and you can tell me if you disagree.

Towngames:
viewtopic.php?t=79412&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=79563&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=79602&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=79212&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

Scumgames:
viewtopic.php?t=79718&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=79344&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go (multiball; the game that dave mentioned)
viewtopic.php?t=79600&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=79304&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=79415&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

If you look at their ISO in this game it just feels so much more like town!Baezu. It reminds me of the first link especially.

I'm not sure what exactly you see in Baezu here anyway. You say that she's lurking and not doing anything. This is kind of fair but applies to a LOT of people in this game and I wouldn't even say she's the biggest culprit of this? Meta-wise, compare the second game, in which I asked her for a readlist twice and she didn't respond. In her scum games she is pretty surface-level helpful actually, making readlists, offering to answer questions, and also just asking questions generally. There's no towniness that jumps out in her ISO but I think that's normal and her casual tone is still towny for her.

Idk. I don't really think this will flip scum.

I guess I'm not really willing to lynch the author of this post any time soon. Townread on Ausuka, as annoying as it is that she doesn't understand my play and seems to want to punish me for it

[Irrelephant11]

case on alisae coming another time

[Emperor flippyNips]

Ughhh. I like silhouelehant’s tone. & don’t want him dead rn

I’ll probably ISO a little later to see where i want my vote.

[Firebringer]

It is at this point that I decided that firebringer is here to pull down everyone's reads of everyone, and scumread him for it

if i get scumread by u, i win.