Open 762: CK9++ [Over!]

[Formerfish]

Alright, I have no games going on, no life to be spoken of and a whole lot of shit to talk.

Hello to those who'll expect one from me, its nice to see you all and hope that we can play nice together, unless your scum, then we can play whatever way you want as long as it ends with your neck in a noose and town forgetting you ever existed past your death.

To those who don't know me, I'm a narcissist who recognizes it and I am able to work well with others as long as they see my plans are the best and will lead us to winning in the fastest and most spectacular ways possible. Game references will be given upon request.

This next clip should explain who I am a little better. Please relax and press play and Mr. Baldwin will take it from there:

So I'm here to bring that BDE and solve this game here and now because once scum realizes who the fuck I am I probably dont make it through the night.

Who wants to tell me what I should know before doing a readthrough?

[Formerfish]

No one?

Its cool. The bowl is packed, the beer is cold and the chicken is marinating.

Lets get it.

[Formerfish]

why hello there

Yo

Was imps post to chem, or was that just good timing?

You guys against rvs votes?

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Persivul

whats your process for picking who you vote in RVS? Why not make this vote in your first post if you are just going to make it naked.

[Formerfish]

@mod V/LA for two days

Noted.
-Kor

but before I go..

VOTE: Persivul

I dont like the lva and then a vote, i feel like the opposite should have been done if you werent going to be around.

Who wants to come back from vacation and find that the person they vote parked on was town and that they are going to get lynched next because of that vote?

Scum wouldnt have that issue because they can either sit it on a townie and hope that town eats itself, or they sit it on a partner and hope that they can gain some cred for being on that wagon early. So is this a distancing vote, or is this scum looking to take out pers?

[Formerfish]

UNVOTE: I'd prefer not to get a wagon rolling quite that hard in the RVS, thanks

You voted Gamma and then 1 person voted after you, 2 posts later you unvote because things are moving too fast.

You seem like the type of guy who goes out on a date, is having a nice time, and then suddenly you drive the girl back to her place and kick her out because she might not kiss you at the end of the date.

We have to have wagons to get claims to evaluate play and find scum.

Have the scum given up in your past games, or do you have some sort of scum hunting ability that doesnt involve where people votes on who and when?

[Formerfish]

VOTE: jackal

I remember you from when I used to play ages ago.

And by ages ago......5 years ago.

Are you a secret alt or are you out?

[Formerfish]

Hey everyone, I’m James Brafin.
Some things to know:

I policy vote/lynch toxicity. Period.

I don’t want it in my game. It’s no fun for anyone.
I don’t like RVS. I’ve heard it said that it builds information, but how can you build information on no foundation? So I’m abstaining my vote. When I put it up you can assume your RVS is over.
I’m also doing a touch of research to improve my preliminary reads, so if I ask a weird question just play along.

Speaking of weird questions, I’d appreciate it if everyone would answer this:
If you could live anywhere, where would it be and why?
For me, it’s somewhere in the north, where you get decent snow. Nebraska, maybe?
Thanks,
JB

So you are the sole decider in what is toxic? I dont think you and I are going to get along in games if thats really how you feel.

RVS is important because it gives context to things that happen later. These are the building blocks the entire game is going to be built around. Its like rings in trees, if someone is absent for a period of time that gets noted and placed away for later. Posts that are made now can be forgotten about and then contradicted later on and you can catch someone in that lie. You might not understand why RVS is important or how it could be useful, but that seems to be a deficit you endure in not being able to see this for the long game that it is.

And I'm not answering your question because it has no bearing where I want to be because my choice means nothing about my alignment. Keep acting busy though, I suggest a better question to use if you like RQS, maybe something that would show you something about peoples character or decision making process.

[Formerfish]

Okay I'm done trolling. Btw I realize that might be a pain in the ass to read so if anyone is having trouble I'll post a translation to normie talk.
Also @Sakura uhhhhh you voted me at the start and just now remember who I am, what?

I figured this was what you were doing, but why? Shits and giggles?

I have never seen you play this way.

[Formerfish]

Anyway.

Town:
Gamma
James
Jackal

Why to any of those?

[Formerfish]

A brief search suggests you do this every game, but I still don't like that at all.

Ok, this is scummy. You meta dive the guy to see that this is something he does across all games, but you vote him anyways? Is he going to be able to argue out of the position you know is already indefensible because it is legit NAI?

[Formerfish]

No, I'm voting them because they are refusing to volunteer information that'll help me form a read on them, and applying pressure is a good way to

force

them to volunteer information that'll help me form a read on them.

What information did JB refuse to provide, a vote?

He may have said he isnt going to vote for a joke reason, but he is trying to produce content in another way, with RQS. Its a pretty big misrep to say he wasn't giving you anything you could read him on, he just isnt randomly voting. You could engage him on why, or see who pushes him and why.

I have seen plenty of people as town buck against the RVS system so that they could act as a lightening rod for scum hunting low hanging fruit. Scum isnt going to avoid rvs, they are going to do things to fuck with it for later when it matters more.

[Formerfish]

Sakura leaning scum, you leaning town, brafin was leaning scum til I did a meta search at which point it became "null but learn more"

Why is Hana scumlean for you? And you voted JB after you did the meta search which led you to a null read on him?

Why vote JB a meta null read, over Hana a scumlean for you?

[Formerfish]

Jackal also leaning town now that I think about it more.

I wanna iso people and quote the posts these people have made up until when you say these reads to see what you are reading into soo many people.

[Formerfish]

Unvote

VOTE: Sakura Hana

Are you a shotgun player?

[Formerfish]

phil is basically guaranteed to either be scum or towntell very hard very quickly when put under pressure so let's go friends

Does that work when you announce that's what you're doing?

Not usually, unless someone knows how to manipulate their meta, but if they are aware enough about that then it doesnt matter at all.

Could that have been the point, like an empty threat?

[Formerfish]

Nah.

Phil is likely town though.

Are you saying no to all 3, and what are you seeing in town phil?

[Formerfish]

Last time with the food question it ended nowhere. (I liked though that the Italian food answer actually came from scum)

Skells gone, but does anyone know what she was talking about?

[Formerfish]

Fuck you.

That escalated quickly.

Your sister's house. I hear she's freaky.

Refusing to comply without coming out and saying that is what hes doing.

I would say that you are just being cheeky, especially with the middle part where you agree with him about RVS being useless.

I disagree with you both, but i can see how this is probably a jokey post.

I was toxic. Why aren't you voting me?

And this is further proof.

I was ignoring the blatant attempts to draw conflict that were obviously trolly in nature.
The fact that you’re still trying to force me to 1v1 with you is major scum points though.

Which JB seems to get here, and then also see as scum somehow. I dont think scum ever gets into a 1v1 over something that clumsily. You would have to believe that scumPers is trying to draw you out into a 1v1 by challanging your no toxic people policy in the most obvious way.

[Formerfish]

...in fact now I'm looking at your posts here harder, it's hard to remotely reconcile your claimed methodology with that vote, and as you say, you don't vote randomly. So yeah, James back to looking very suspect here.

I read this as i am going to now read everything with confbias and will now enter what can only be known as a death tunnel.

Did anyone else read that here?

[Formerfish]

When you actually have something important to say let me know.
Kthxbye

Why dont you point out what that is being said that isnt important?

[Formerfish]

To be absolutely clear, because you're claiming I was voting you for not giving information in a single post: Your refusal to vote in RVS was itself the thing that was denying information, and threatened to continue. Voting for you was intended to get you to give us information sooner rather than later. And hey, look at that, it worked.

So to be clear, he didnt outright refuse to give info, he just didnt follow blindly towards what people should be doing and went his own way, a way you looked into and found that he does as either alignment.

So if this is a NAI activity for him, why the vote?

[Formerfish]

I think this James person is town.

I think youre right. Do you have a read off Phil in this situation, or just JB?

[Formerfish]

(But dw I'm done with that now)

This is the second time you mention being done with trolling, do you ever explain why it existed in the first place?

[Formerfish]

Things can be based in an impression of someone's personality that I got from like two posts.

A.K.A. a gut read.

Have you never played with a charismatic scumteam? Why wouldnt they want to come off well in their first impressions with the rest of the town?

Anyone can fake a few posts, we need them talking to see if their lines hold up over time or if we can see the flaws better once they get stretched out.

[Formerfish]

He's simply self-evidently obvtown.

I know this is selfdisserving, but I really cant respect a read this strong on day 1 from anyone. Like it just makes me wonder why you are so sure off so little. Do you need me for something that you are going to blatantly buddy Jackel?

I have been wrong on this as well, i once lynched Alonzo on day 1 because he gave a cop lvl clear on someone. He was right and we eventually won the game, but the sureness he showed cost us a mislynch.

[Formerfish]

So on the last page Phil comes off as very town.

I never know what to do when someone reads the same stuff I have and comes away with something completely different. I guess this is how I would feel walking away from a trump rally.

I dont see what town motivation there is in pushing someone you have meta dived to find that the thing they are going to push for is something that he does as any alignment in the dive that he preformed to find out about the activity in question.

I see scum motivation in pushing an easy mislynch based off a difference in playstyle.

Vote on Phil in spirit until i know what the current count is

[Formerfish]

As for real scumreads:

I actually really strongly dislike Skellen's two posts so far. It reads like scum who opened the thread, saw James's question and said "oh sure, I can answer that", then continued reading the thread looking for something to respond to, saw my post with my random-ass townreads, and went "oh sure, I can give a response to this."

Bro.

I don't know if this is a scum slip or a town slip... I would have to think about whether the mod would mention the IC in the scum pt as well as here. If mod mentions it there then there is no way that scum talks about it in here like that, they would assume that we all knew Skell was clear. It also makes us try and think if there is a way that townImp didnt see that first post.

I replaced in, but I saw it when i first read through. I would assume that most of the town would have seen it as we are looking for every little bit of info we can find. I think maybe scum werent told about it in the pt and missed it in the op because they didnt care.

Wasnt imp the first to post, and then chem came right in and then bounced?

Sakura I actually thought calling James town was very out-of-nowhere scummy but then I saw that she actually asked him a question so it's fine. I'd like to hear more from her than just choosing one specific thing (James calling a vote opportunistic) to engage directly with.

So hana null?

Persivul could very easily be scum. If he is then James is almost certainly town.

Why, and why?

I kind of do think James is town after a few more moments of pondering but I don't feel strongly about it.

So you felt hanna was scum for tring JB, but now you are null reading hanna because of her tr on JB, but you might also have a tr on JB?

[Formerfish]

I actually really strongly dislike Skellen's two posts so far. It reads like scum who opened the thread, saw James's question and said "oh sure, I can answer that", then continued reading the thread looking for something to respond to, saw my post with my random-ass townreads, and went "oh sure, I can give a response to this."

Push that and I'll fight you to the end.

I like this. I would have made this exact post if id been here.

[Formerfish]

I actually really strongly dislike Skellen's two posts so far. It reads like scum who opened the thread, saw James's question and said "oh sure, I can answer that", then continued reading the thread looking for something to respond to, saw my post with my random-ass townreads, and went "oh sure, I can give a response to this."

Push that and I'll fight you to the end.

Interesting, why

Because skellen's the fucking IC.

This you could have drug out a bit. I would have just said that if you couldnt see how skell was obvtown then you should case him and then let people hang themselves. It can backfire too, jingle cased himself once in a game and called his pred scum, he wasnt. We won the game, nbd.

[Formerfish]

So on the last page Phil comes off as very town. E.g., 62-64 is a good reaction. James comes off more strongly as giving off his personality than giving anything useful for reading him, which is a bit annoying. James is spending paragraphs talking about how RVS is inferior, which is basically spending paragraphs talking about nothing. Post 72 is such an absurd way to use logic. It's just not useful. It's like he's framing it as a formal logical argument to show he can, and then the flaw that he points out in the way that he's formalizing it isn't even the actual flaw in the argument, it's just a premise that he disagrees with (the actual flaw being that the argument all A are B, C is not A, therefore C is not B being invalid).

So James.

Without talking about RVS because I think you and I both agree it's a deeply uninteresting thing, and without talking about how anyone's logic is bad (because bad logic is perhaps the least accurate "scumtell" in history), is there any actual reason Phil's posting is more likely to come from scum than from town?

Again, I find Phil is behaving in a very opportunistic fashion. He “doesn’t like” my position, so suddenly I’m suspicious, even though I’ve actually explained my reasoning and generated a ton of information relatively quickly. To borrow a line from his book, I don’t like that. It feels like he’s probing for a mislynch and looking for reasons to scumread me.

And now I’ve made clear the validity of my points, he backs off.
I’m not sure how I feel about that.

This actually makes sense to me.

When Phil unvoted i looked at the count to see who he was even on, and even the mod missed it, so I had to look back and saw that Phil was on JB, because of the RVS thing.

So why unvote like that, slinking away once someone stood up against his crap reason for voting.

Like he went to look for something to hang JB on, found out the opposite was true, and then still tried to hang him anways.

That is clearly trying to twist info to fit your narrative, and not changing the narrative with new info intertwined.

[Formerfish]

And now I’ve made clear the validity of my points,

This is not how argumentation works.

You don't get to make points in the format of a formal logical argument and magically have them be "valid" and win the argument. Other people just see it as another level of arguing back and forth.

In this case JB showed that the reasoning Phil was using to justify his vote on JB was faulty, and therefore a bad vote because it was based on faulty info.

If Phil had done a meta dive and found that JB prefers RQS in his scum games, and RVS in his town reads, there would be a basis for his vote on JB for not engaging in rvs.

Instead, Phil found out that there is no info either way in JB past games, and still decided that it was scummy here, with no basis other than his belief. How does someone dissuade someone from a baseless belief?

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Chemist1422

You have a side bet where you can vote everyone on day 1?

Throwing mud? Like what is this?

[Formerfish]

James, I don't deny that you're failing to see it, that much is clear . You were refusing to participate in RVS, so I applied pressure to bring you out of RVS so you would start giving useful information. For someone who claims not to respond to pressure, you sure did... respond to it.

Why do you feel like this was something you needed to do. Have you never played with someone who avoided rvs? Is everyone who does that scum?

[Formerfish]

Unvote. Vote: implosion.

Naked votes are more likely to come from scum in my experience.

In other news I wish Persivul didn't spill the beans so soon about our Innocent Child. Should of let more information and hilarity ensue.

I like this post, another one i feel like I could have made.

With Pers i feel like it was a town thing. I can see him getting excited that he thought it caught something and didnt think it all the way through on how hed use it. What benefit would scumPers have in breaking it up early? If town legit didnt see it he would be stopping people from potentially not town telling by pushing there. Hell, if Imp and Gamma missed it they would have to assume more would and thats easy game for scum.

[Formerfish]

Unvote. Vote: implosion.

Naked votes are more likely to come from scum in my experience.

In other news I wish Persivul didn't spill the beans so soon about our Innocent Child. Should of let more information and hilarity ensue.

I was sheeping you

tfw someone sees right through your buddy attempt and votes you instead...

[Formerfish]

Chemist, I'll be honest with you, when I said that I had totally misread the setup and thought that 7 Ts was the only one with a serial killer. That said, fair.

Youre basically arguing against an rvs vote he made from 21 if his read is wrong why are you giving him any credence when hes shown to not be current at all?

Like you are arguing against semantics when you shouldnt be.

[Formerfish]

Is this serious?
Because that’s a lousy excuse for a vote if I’ve ever seen one.

It's not like I can't change it if something stronger comes up

For me its not that i think youre locked in, but that i feel that you should have more if this was something you actually felt and not something you just want us to think you are feeling could be a thing.

[Formerfish]

I'd like some explanation on that, it gave me the opposite impression (i.e. he looked for the easiest thing to latch on to (the person going against the regular flow of mafia))

Mindmeld

[Formerfish]

Chemist is pinging me. So is Pers, who doesn't seem toe really be adding anything to the gamestate

I can see why chem might be pinging you, Im just not sure yet if its meanigful. I think you are wrong on Pers, scum doesnt break up that gambit, they grab popcorn and sit back and watch the fireworks.

Implosion strikes me as town-ish, in a "using other's content bot not generating a lot of my own" kinda way. But he's been super active and building off several other players, which I expect from town, not scum.

Im getting scum pings from imp on this one, the way he defends his tr of phil by saying hes going off tone and a genuine hunt, when the tone is bs and the genuine hunt is based off ignoring something that should be NAI because he checked it out himself and found it to be?

Jackal I can't sort yet. Not enough info.

Dont worry, ill have you seeing nothing but green in my aura.

Korina and The Worst are both obviously scum.

You watch your goddamned mouth

Arch is... odd. I'd like to see vote reasoning here, but I can't say he's super scummy without it. VERY slight scumread,

Meh, newbie, null.

Dr. doesn't have enough, but Dry-fit has me concerned. He feels like he's coasting, which I don't feel like is a town thing.

I feel like Dry has a few good posts where Drew is forgettable to me.

Gamma is fluff-posting, which I find scummy as frick. Speaking of, yes, I prefer RQS.

Agreed, i want to know why the trolling. THE PEOPLE DEMAND ANSWERS!!!

Phil is maybe town, considering his posts, and Sakura as well. I feel like as scum they both would have pushed harder against me for my bad reasoning, but they didn't try to build that case and that strikes me as townish.

No, yes.

I dont dislike your reads. I can see where they are off and they arent off by much from mine. I think mine are better though.

[Formerfish]

James you know me, you should know fluff posting is NAI for me.
Also what about Chemist pings you?

I know you and feel like you got angry at us when we posted a song lyric you didnt get and threw a fit.

I dont know you to troll and fluff post at all. Should I be concerned?

[Formerfish]

Did you know there's a bookstore there that takes up an entire city block?

Ive been there. Its awesome, and has its own map.

Now post something worthwhile in the game. I dont like this Gamma, I want the normal Gamma i know and like back.

[Formerfish]

Im against your policy lynch, as It discourages genuine clash. If someone comes across poorly you try to kill them... which is toxic in and of its self.

but I would live anywhere but Nebraska, as I live there now.

I like this response.

[Formerfish]

meh, I like being an ass to get people to slip up, but because you are a fan of Nebraska ill do my best not be too much of an ass

I like this one too!

[Formerfish]

So Phillammom, you seem odd... your ISO isnt the best

Anyone else you find odd?

Why does him asking about Phil bring you out of shit posting and playing the game all of a sudden?

[Formerfish]

Still catching up, not sure why i cant get in a a groove here, but I went through Phil's iso.......what did you find so odd.

I find it hard to believe that what Phil did wasnt obvious, but people are acting like it was.

If this is still something people are confused about let me know.

[Formerfish]

Thespio, howso?

VOTE: Sakura Hara strikes me as scummiest at the moment, but it's not a huge lean.

Horrible vote, show how hana has been scum.

@mod V/LA was shorter than I expected so im back a bit early.

UNVOTE: Persivul

lol. He goes on lva and votes someone, he comes back and he unvotes. What in the fuck is that? When he isnt around he vote parks and cant take it off because he would be lva. As soon as he is back he takes it off. Beautiful.

[Formerfish]

I actually really strongly dislike Skellen's two posts so far. It reads like scum who opened the thread, saw James's question and said "oh sure, I can answer that", then continued reading the thread looking for something to respond to, saw my post with my random-ass townreads, and went "oh sure, I can give a response to this."

Push that and I'll fight you to the end.

Interesting, why

Because skellen's the fucking IC.

Okay I'm fucking stupid.

Wtf is this from Persivul?

I missed the IC reveal at the beginning of the game, no offense to mod but it wasn't blatantly obvious. Your reaction to someone, who clearly didn't see the reveal, was way way too aggressive instead of just 'Hey dude, you know he is mod confirmed IC right?'

VOTE: Persivul

I would have done the same thing as Pers and i would have done it because I would have figured that scum wouldnt have seen that, not town.

I could totally see townPers get excited he caught scum and outed the info. Its like getting a cop clear on someone who is pushed that day. He just blew his load early.

[Formerfish]

Can people start doing more AI stuff.

Be a leader. There has been plenty said that you could push at this point. You've seemed town so far, this seems lazy and scummy.

[Formerfish]

You say it's a reaction to someone who didn't see the reveal
But I feel like I'm getting pedantic here so w/e

Drew, I feel like what Gamma is saying is that Pers reacting the way he did is NAI because Gamma had seen it and knew about it and therefore anyone who read would have seen that there was an IC in the game.

I kind think that if Gamma is telling you that you read the sitaution wrong that you should listen, cause he was in it when it happened.

If he doesnt think Pers is scum based on the call out, why do you?

[Formerfish]

But, the greater point was Persivul's reaction to someone wanting to put pressure on the IC when they didn't realize said person was the IC.

Like a somewhat buddying of the only confirmed townie.

So you think that scumPers is buddying the known IC by defending him against people who are categorically going to be wrong when making a push on Skell?

What does scumPers gain out of that? I think scum gains more for letting people hang themselves, but that might just be me.

[Formerfish]

So Phillammom, you seem odd... your ISO isnt the best

That said oh man i didn't notice this until now, this post is pretty bad

Oh yeah, why?

[Formerfish]

I think either implosion or me are reading this game upside down.

If you are town and you are seeing someone see the opposite of everything you see, what does that usually tell you?

[Formerfish]

Why thespio though

did you *see* post 151???

You sound like a crackpot. 151 is a very basic post, one like many others so far in this game. It is not special, nor is it particularly impactful to the game state at all right now.

Why dont you explain how 151 is the linchpin that you have somehow identified and set aside for such compelling evidence as it is.

[Formerfish]

The content of 151 isn't the problem, it's the tone, the phrasing and above all the *

aggressive

*

tepidness

.

ready or likely to attack or confront

marked by an absence of enthusiasm or conviction

I dont understand how someone can be aggressively tepid. I also think that is looking waaaaayyyy to far into one statement. How did you feel about the post Thes made prior? 146 and 149

[Formerfish]

The content of 151 isn't the problem, it's the tone, the phrasing and above all the *aggressive* tepidness.

I agree.

Oh yeah, great, now back to the closet with you for another 180 posts...

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Thespio
I'll see where this goes

I dont understand your progression onto this vote.

[Formerfish]

Both these posts objectively suck. Naked votes are NAI, not scummy. And this feels shady, esp. coming form a player who has also been very passive. This doesn’t seem to come from town to me at all.

From the guy who wont put up with anyones shit and will lynch toxic play calling peoples posts stupid without saying why you feel so is a bit much to take.

And naked votes can be scummy if they are being made to fuck with vca or to mask associative tells for later on in the game.

[Formerfish]

Implosion, I get the feeling that that's not an indicator of any alignment, is all, and is just how James functions.


...which can be said for nearly everything they have said this game.

Wait, are you telling Imp to back off JB for something that is NAI when you were pushing JB for something that was NAI?

[Formerfish]

This post is wolfy because it contributes literally nothing to the game while trying to appear like it does

Yeah, I think we're all familiar with IIoA. Don't like the way you're phrasing it here like it's some big new discovery. Plus it was still RVS.

Do you disagree with Chems read on Phil or are you just throwing shade for the hell of it?

[Formerfish]

So Phillammom, you seem odd... your ISO isnt the best

Ouch. Coming right after a VC showing Phil as the leading wagon, this is really bad.

Are you townreading Phil? If you are, you shouldnt be, hes a bad person to town read.

If you arent townreading phil then you shouldnt be worried about someone agreeing with your read unless you think they are lying about their reasons.

Whats your Phil read?

[Formerfish]

So Phillammom, you seem odd... your ISO isnt the best

Ouch. Coming right after a VC showing Phil as the leading wagon, this is really bad.

Now that you mention it...
I hadn't thought about that

You are worried about thes also having a scum read on the person you are voting? Are you worried about the 2 people who voted Phil after you?

[Formerfish]

meh, I like being an ass to get people to slip up, but because you are a fan of Nebraska ill do my best not be too much of an ass

How does this come from town mindset?

Because only scum slip. Town cant slip. They can not be believed, but they cant really slip.

I use a version of that mindset in all my day 1 play. You'll see what I mean when you start reading my posts.

[Formerfish]

Didn't say it did. I'm asking a question. Is there any way that it comes from a town mindset? How is this a town-aligned way to approach the game?

Are you asking because you cant imagine a way it could be town, or because you have imagined those scenarios and have decided that town never acts that way?

[Formerfish]

I feel like you guys are too scared to do this
VOTE: Thespio

The logic behind this vote doesnt make sense. Youll need to talk to me about this one.

[Formerfish]

But I feel like the game's going in circles with everyone talking about HOW BAD that post was, but no one wants to vote there.

No one wanted to talk about why the post was bad either. Look at how everyone talked about it without ever talking about it. Just how BAAAD it was.

Why was it bad for him to suspect the person who was most suspicious at that point. Gamma voted Phil after it was pointed out that Thes was suspicious for questioning Phil, Gamma is clear though?

[Formerfish]

VOTE: thespio

Moving out today so limited energy.

Who was it that unvoted because a wagon was gaining too much speed? I hope to god they came out and spoke to the speed of this one.

[Formerfish]

Casting shade on the largest wagon right after a vote count or something.

A vote you were had made before he made his comment. A vote that someone else shared with you. A vote that Gamma made subsequent to Thes saying what he did.

Why is Thes the only one catching heat for thinking Phil is scum. I think Phil is scum, am I scum?

[Formerfish]

Bold.

So, setup wise IC means at least 1 M. So that's good to know off the bat and eliminates seven Ts, which is... something?

Scummy;

UNVOTE: I'd prefer not to get a wagon rolling quite that hard in the RVS, thanks

Extra scummy.

VOTE: Phillammon

implo gets it!

VOTE: jackal

I remember you from when I used to play ages ago.

And by ages ago......5 years ago.

Don't like this post either...

Fuck that James, why be where there is snow when you could be where there isn't snow. And Nebraska.....really?

VOTE: James Brafin

Put me on a beach in the cayman islands.

Or this.

I like this guy

[Formerfish]

hi what’s up

something something greeting tell

Only a tell for newbies, not people who know about the newbie greeting tell.

[Formerfish]

Im against your policy lynch, as It discourages genuine clash. If someone comes across poorly you try to kill them... which is toxic in and of its self.

Do you really think there's any chance of a policy lynch? This seems like a contrived attempt at contributing.

implosion wagon doesn't look possible today so

Unvote. Vote: Thespio.

I dont understand this either.

Imp wagon not happening, so you vote with him?

[Formerfish]

Dry-fit's vote is yuck; feels opportunistic.

VOTE: Dry-fit

Its a bad vote, but Dry has had some good posts. I think they outweigh this on the scale, and a vote can be unmade.

[Formerfish]

Dry-fit's vote is yuck; feels opportunistic.

VOTE: Dry-fit

Mindmeld

VOTE: Dryfit

Bad sheep.

VOTE: Dry-fit
This seems new and hip

This is an opportunistic vote. Like textbook. Do you have a progression on this vote?

[Formerfish]

Imp always seems to be the catalyst to a wagon seeming like it has more steam than it really does, always comes swooping in like 3rd or 4th on a wagon right after the 2nd or 3rd person voted.

[Formerfish]

That wagon moved faster than I'm comfortable with

UNVOTE:

Eventually we are going to need one to go to l-1 and get a claim. We cant go to deadline with an unknown lynch.

[Formerfish]

A player being wagoned quickly can also indicate they're scummy which can indicate that they are, in fact scum!

Or thats its day 1 and town are more likely to jump at anything that moves.

Which is why we need to relax and just let this unfold the way that it does. We are not going to solve this all on day 1, we are going to start today and get the best lynch we can get. Hope for scum, and then go from there. If we mislynch then we look at the wagons and we narrow our field. Repeat and narrow and repeat. And eventually scum will just stick out as being the last thing left that makes sense.

[Formerfish]

VOTE: chemist

I didn't like that vote, and I like the unvote even less. (Yes, I know I did a similar thing way earlier. I have bad expreiences with "accidental" extended quickhammers in RVS.)

You voted someone, then someone else voted them and you unvoted. Now you claim a fear of quick hammers. There are 13 people in this game and only what 3 are scum? it takes 7 to lynch right now, if you and the other person who had voted with you are town it would have taken all 3 scum and then 2 other peole to vote to quick hammer.

I dont know how you treat lolhammers, but i generally bury them if they end up being on town.

And to compare your pulling out to chems unvote is not a fair comparison. Chems unvote is more nuanced where yours was pointless.

[Formerfish]

...which in turn would suggest thespio and chem on a team, which I can buy, though it is maybe early to be looking for associatives.

Have you ever been horseback riding and mistook a windmill for an attacking knight?

[Formerfish]

First there was a phil wagon, then thesp wagon, then dry fit wagon.
And eveyrone gets scared everytime these wagons get off.

You'll never lynch scum like this.

This is town.

[Formerfish]

VOTE COUNT 1.10

Thespio (5, L-2!):

Jackall711, Persivul, Dry-fit, James Brafin, Phillammon

Dry-fit (3):

Elastic Plastic, implosion, Sakura Hara

Phillammon (1):

Gamma Emerald

Persivul (1):

Doctor Drew

Sakura Hara (0):

implosion (0):

James Brafin (0):

Gamma Emerald (0):

Chemist1422 (0):

Jackal711 (0):

Doctor Drew (0):

Spangled (0):

Elastic Plastic (0):

No-Lynch (0):

Not Voting (3):

Spangled, Thespio, Chemist1422
With

13

alive, it takes

7

to lynch.

(expired on 2019-07-31 21:10:00) remain in the day.

Mod Notes

:
- Remember: Flavor is just flavor. Don't use it to make arguments.
- I will be pseudo-V/LA until July 28th or 29th. While I will still be around, please submit all actions to the worst as well.
- Jackal711 is V/LA until July 26th, 2019.

VOTE: Unvote

Just realized where my vote was.

[Formerfish]

Dont do drugs kids.

[Formerfish]

or is it dont do your kids drugs?

[Formerfish]

Dont give drugs to your kids?

[Formerfish]

Phil is more obvtown than before.

Starting to hunch that thespio is town though I don’t have like good evidence for it

this reads as scum hedging on his thes read.

Notice how he sits on Thes even though hes starting to doubt his read? This way if Thes gets lynched Imp can come out tomorrow and be all like "Shit guys, I was right to doubt my Thes read. I wish I had been more sure of myself, shucks, its going to be so sad Thes isnt here."

And then start in on his next mislynch

[Formerfish]

Phil is more obvtown than before.

Starting to hunch that thespio is town though I don’t have like good evidence for it

You’re voting the counterwagon but you just now started having a hunch?

Never mind, he Imp voted Dry.

Both are bad votes.

[Formerfish]

VOTE: jackal

I remember you from when I used to play ages ago.

And by ages ago......5 years ago.

Are you a secret alt or are you out?

Imma let you finish your deep dive, but wanted to jump in to say..........not an alt per se. I used to have an account on here, FuDuzn if anyone else wants meta as well. But literally haven't used it in 5 years and wanted to start fresh.

Ok, just wanted to make sure that if i knew you I would know about it. You dont seem familiar, so I dont think we ever crossed paths.

[Formerfish]

I like this formerfish person for town.

Im not sure if you are being playful since we know each other, or if you dont know me and im feeling like you should?

[Formerfish]

You voted Gamma and then 1 person voted after you, 2 posts later you unvote because things are moving too fast.

This is basically this entire game so far.
Every.
Single.
Wagon.
"OH MY GOD TOO FAST WAGON"

I know, a wagon has to happen eventually, 7 votes can come at any time, but I do think that a bad wagon can gain steam faster than a good one. If you think about it all scum needs to do is wait for a townie to make a psuh and then have one scummer back them. They wait and see if anyone stakes the bait and if a second townie falls then its 1 scum 2 town on a mislynch.

2nd scum comes out and makes it 4 votes, 2 more townies get turned by the 4 people yelling to lnych and then final scum hammers at deadline or one of us wh oare arguing against the lynch does so we dont no lynch.

We need to avoid things we can avoid by figuring out who is most scummy, pushing them and getting a claim.

[Formerfish]

I think this James person is town.

I think youre right. Do you have a read off Phil in this situation, or just JB?

At that point i had him as scum.
Not sure what to think of him right now coz of the latest wagon developments.

Now that im here lets talk about this, and why you jumped ship on phil to vote thes because thes said phil might be scum. Seems like a weird jump to someone agreeing with you, donit?

[Formerfish]

Okay I'm done trolling. Btw I realize that might be a pain in the ass to read so if anyone is having trouble I'll post a translation to normie talk.
Also @Sakura uhhhhh you voted me at the start and just now remember who I am, what?

I figured this was what you were doing, but why? Shits and giggles?

I have never seen you play this way.

Mass confusion, essentially.

But why? I dont think ive seen you play as scum (I legit dont remember) so all I have is a town mindset for you and this hasnt been it so far. You said you were doing it to do it, but town you has never done that. Town you got mad at us for the eagles reference. Town you in that game would have gotten mad at you posting in this game, but you seem cool with it here, which bothers me.

[Formerfish]

Can people start doing more AI stuff.

Be a leader. There has been plenty said that you could push at this point. You've seemed town so far, this seems lazy and scummy.

Im not a good leader.

Thats fair. Then understand where you are weak and figure out a way to not be weak there. If you cant lead then you need to figure out how to find someone you can sheep.

[Formerfish]

James you know me, you should know fluff posting is NAI for me.
Also what about Chemist pings you?

I know you and feel like you got angry at us when we posted a song lyric you didnt get and threw a fit.

I dont know you to troll and fluff post at all. Should I be concerned?

You should be concerned that you haven't played with the fun side of me yet d'_'b

I didnt realize there was this side to you. Never meeting people face to face will pigeonhole people sometimes i think.

[Formerfish]

So Phillammom, you seem odd... your ISO isnt the best

Anyone else you find odd?

Why does him asking about Phil bring you out of shit posting and playing the game all of a sudden?

The fact he singled out Phil piqued my interest

Why? Was your interest satiated?

[Formerfish]

I think either implosion or me are reading this game upside down.

If you are town and you are seeing someone see the opposite of everything you see, what does that usually tell you?

I used to think they are scum, but that isnt always the case i learned the hard way.

True, but anything is likely to happen given a long enough time line. I find that when someone has the opposite views of me they are either scum or very wrong. If they are scum it doesnt matter what they think. If they are wrong town you have to figure that out and see where you can overlap to meld with them. Sometimes town cant be assimilated and needs to be eliminated to implicate someone else.

I selfhammered in a game recently because my town flip implicated the last scum and he conceded.

[Formerfish]

This is getting boring.
I feel like I was reading an exciting book and i can predict how it will end.

Ouch, sorry, i could have jazzed it up a bit with videos if i knew I had an audience.

[Formerfish]

Town:

Spang
FF
Hana
Thes
Dry

EP
Chem
JB

Gamma
Pers

Drew

Imp
Phil
:

Scum

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Phil

I am open to talks on Imp or Drew at this point, anyone further up my list is going to take a god level read for me to go there right now

[Formerfish]

Imp always seems to be the catalyst to a wagon seeming like it has more steam than it really does, always comes swooping in like 3rd or 4th on a wagon right after the 2nd or 3rd person voted.

Hm, interesting, do you think this makes implosion look scummy?

Yes. Naked votes in quick succession behind others is an easy way to hide in voting.

Pedit- I can understand that, but you have to see it fmpov, that's the first time you mentioned it.

[Formerfish]

I feel like we've played together some more, but nothing particular sticks out. I remember feeling like our play styles don't mesh well sometimes.

[Formerfish]

I had one game where I was scum and you were in it, and it was the first game we played together (Open 661)

I was a VT in that game, was killed night 2 and town won.

[Formerfish]

Ff is probably town but I don’t think it’s that strong. Most of the things he’s doing are fakeable. The reasons he has for reading me as scum are pretty bad. Like most of his reasoning in general looks kind of disjointed, as in the conclusions aren’t really directly related to the premises.

Bad reasons for scum reads. Disjointed. Easily fakeable. Sure sounds like a town read to me...

[Formerfish]

Spangled, literally the opposite. Sorry, should have clarified.

The opposite of being self aware is having a lack of self awareness.

I don't know what you are trying to say about me, can you make it clearer since your clarification only made things more unclear?

[Formerfish]

This you could have drug out a bit. I would have just said that if you couldnt see how skell was obvtown then you should case him and then let people hang themselves. It can backfire too, jingle cased himself once in a game and called his pred scum, he wasnt. We won the game, nbd.

In my experience, town misses mod info like that all the time. I think it's NAI. But, someone else (forget who right now) said the same thing so I might try that next time.

BTW your entrance is lookin' tahn 'nat

If you think that town misses info like that, and it's NAI, why did you go at the people who missed the info so hard?

And I'm not getting the slang at the end of your post there. It's that a nod to me living in Pittsburgh? I should tell everyone i was raised in an actually decent state not here.

[Formerfish]

When you actually have something important to say let me know.
Kthxbye

Why dont you point out what that is being said that isnt important?

See the post above the post you quoted.

I saw a vote on you, and then you being dismissive towards it. What did I miss?

[Formerfish]

Also, now that THAT catchup is over:

So the Fish is prob town here. I don’t think scum has that level of faked scumhunting, posted thought process, and detail.
That being said, you do realize Thespio has never, as far as I’m aware, returned to his comments on the players he votes? He says that they look bad, votes them, and never actually explains why they look bad. Just because he agrees with you that Phil doesn’t look good doesn’t make him town. While you have, IMO, legit reasons, Thes was highly opportunistic in his voting.

The bold is a poking that I find unnecessary from someone who proclaims to dislike toxic play. You seem like you might be the type of person who needles other people until they snap and then you turn around and use them snapping as a reason to dislike/distrust them, how accurate am i?

As for Thes, I think with an iso that has 12 posts you could be more sure of what you are saying.

Like, first of all, Thes hasnt voted. So saying that Thes hasnt explained his votes is accurate, but saying the lack of explanation is suspect is not accurate. How you saw him make multiple votes when Thes hasnt made a single one is pretty amazing.

Unless...
Unless you are thinking about Imp here and got the names messed up? Cause if that was the case I could understand after seeing Imps iso and these:

VOTE: Persivul

VOTE: Phillammon

Unvote

VOTE: Sakura Hana

VOTE: Chemist1422

VOTE: thespio
Moving out today so limited energy.

VOTE: Dry-fit
This seems new and hip

[Formerfish]

So the Fish is prob town here. I don’t think scum has that level of faked scumhunting, posted thought process, and detail.

That's what I think too. So, what do you make of Implosion saying "

Most of the things he’s doing are fakeable

"?

I mean like the primary premise of mafia is that it's

not

easy to fake those things.

What are things that scum say about posts that bleed town, Alex?

I will take "Potent Potables" for 800 please.

[Formerfish]

It was a ‘pressure vote.’ Except anyone who would bother to read my meta would know better than to try that, since I don’t feel pressure from votes or wagons. So, he was just, as I like to call it,

shit-sheeping

.

I'd have to look back at how Pers phrased everything, but agree that pressure votes for the sake of pressure dont work.

I also dont know how much I buy your "I dont feel pressure" shtick. Like everyone feels pressure, you might not freak out to it, but you still feel it and will play differently depending on whats going on in the game.

Are you telling me if there was a legit wagon on you that you would just be easy breezy and wouldnt give a fuck? I would care as either alignment because that means that I no longer have control over the game at all and dont trust the living to listen to the dead to win us the game.

Does the bold worry you at all about Pers? I mean first he intentionally tries to engage you in toxic play to test you almost, and then he follows someone on a bad wagon to pressure you. Do you guys have history?

[Formerfish]

You should know, if you actually meta-dived, that if you vote me I feel no pressure.

You seem to be feeling pressure from both Phil and me.
VOTE: James Brafin

This isnt a pressure vote to me, this is Pers saying that he has put pressure on you and feels like you have reacted to it in a negative way, and therefore voted you.

Why do you think it is just a pressure vote?

[Formerfish]

Unless...
Unless you are thinking about Imp here and got the names messed up? Cause if that was the case I could understand after seeing Imps iso and these:

VOTE: Persivul

VOTE: Phillammon

Unvote

VOTE: Sakura Hana

VOTE: Chemist1422

VOTE: thespio
Moving out today so limited energy.

VOTE: Dry-fit
This seems new and hip

6 votes in a 13 player game, 12 if not dont include Imp (although self-voting is a thing).

Pers, Phil, Hana, Chem, Thes, and Dry.

No votes on Drew, Gamma, EP, JB, or me.

Can't vote the IC, even though he started to push there, but was stopped by Pers (I think this ties Pers to Imp a little. Like if Imp flips scum then Pers could be his buddy telling him to shut the fuck up about the IC being scum).

I think that Imp hid one of his buddies in his RVS votes and kept the other one out of it. Phil/Pers makes sense as one of the voted, and Drew/Gamma for the one off.

All of this is predicated upon Imps flip of course. Just a tinfoil hat theory at this point.

[Formerfish]

If you think that town misses info like that, and it's NAI, why did you go at the people who missed the info so hard?

I didn't go at them hard. No push, no votes based on it. Didn't let it go on, as you noted yourself. So. why do you portray me as going after them hard? The single word "fucking"?

And I'm not getting the slang at the end of your post there. It's that a nod to me living in Pittsburgh?

Yes. Should be obvious to anyone who's lived in Pittsburgh for more than a month or so.

I should tell everyone i was raised in an actually decent state not here.

I'll have to check state mottoes for the

I have a stick up my ass

state. Pretty sure that's where you're from.

I mean partly, also because you got involved at all. I never understand why town gets involved in things like that. Last game I played one player did a fakehammer gambit, and another player stepped in the middle of it and fucked it up. They both ended up being town, but that act led me to scumread the guy breaking it up. He couldnt give a good reason for getting involved and thats an issue for me.

Ive lived in Pittsburgh for 6 years and what you said is not recognizable to any of the tribes as native slang. Were you trying to go for an n'at? That was close, but maybe your Yinzer slang proficiency is lacking, along with some other qualities you are clearly exhibiting a deficiency in.

Sounds like we might be from the same homestate if you think i have a stick up my ass. You have been the one intentionally trying to rile people up. To what end? Whats your goal? Make on of us angry and hope that we say something scummy enough for you to latch onto and you can easily slip into a tunnel that isnt going to go anywhere but allow you to act busy cause you are so focused on that one person everyone else has as townish, but you, you know youve found a deep wolf...

Try being less of a dick.

[Formerfish]

But I don't know you or your meta, and I don't know if you're the kind of person who is willing to put that massive effort in upon replace in to a scum slot to construct this sprawling narrative as you catch up to the entire thread. I think it's something that most people aren't capable of faking

You dont know me or my meta (i think we may have played together btw, im just not sure where) and say that this is something not many people could fake, but that didnt stop you from saying this last night:

Most of the things he’s doing are fakeable.

Why throw shade and say last night that i could be scum faking it, if you are townreading me.
Why say today that you dont know me at all but youre tring me for what you were throwing shade at me for before?

[Formerfish]

Spoiler:

I mean partly, also because you got involved at all. I never understand why town gets involved in things like that. Last game I played one player did a fakehammer gambit, and another player stepped in the middle of it and fucked it up. They both ended up being town, but that act led me to scumread the guy breaking it up. He couldnt give a good reason for getting involved and thats an issue for me.

So, you knowingly scum read people for playstyle differences, and can't change.

Ive lived in Pittsburgh for 6 years and what you said is not recognizable to any of the tribes as native slang. Were you trying to go for an n'at?

LMAO - it's not recognizable...yet you recognized it.

That was close, but maybe your Yinzer slang proficiency is lacking, along with some other qualities you are clearly exhibiting a deficiency in.

No Pittsburgher would recognize tahn for town?
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... m=dahntahn

Sounds like we might be from the same homestate if you think i have a stick up my ass. You have been the one intentionally trying to rile people up.

Not people, person.

To what end? Whats your goal?

As noted, I wanted to see if his declaration on toxicity was really an excuse to vote anyone for any uncivil behavior. It worked.

Make on of us angry and hope that we say something scummy enough for you to latch onto and you can easily slip into a tunnel that isnt going to go anywhere but allow you to act busy cause you are so focused on that one person everyone else has as townish, but you, you know youve found a deep wolf...

Try being less of a dick.

Two words - first one is

Fuck

.

[Formerfish]

I never understand why town gets involved in things like that.

Although this is in reply to Persivul, this gets at the core of where I think the way you're looking at my play is very silly. Another example is this:

He's simply self-evidently obvtown.

I know this is selfdisserving, but I really cant respect a read this strong on day 1 from anyone. Like it just makes me wonder why you are so sure off so little. Do you need me for something that you are going to blatantly buddy Jackel?

I have been wrong on this as well, i once lynched Alonzo on day 1 because he gave a cop lvl clear on someone. He was right and we eventually won the game, but the sureness he showed cost us a mislynch.

You seem to have an obstinate view of how town members act, that is based on how you act as town. And yet when you see examples of town members acting in different ways, you don't update your internal model of how they act; you just cast those examples as aberrations. You don't understand why town gets involved in things like that, but... empirically, they do. Similarly, town are empirically sometimes extremely sure of themselves (though to clarify, that surety in that quote from me was sarcastic), yet you still find things like that suspicious.

I have Pers as a null read because of his actions not matching with his words. You guys are acting like I am damning Pers off of that when Im clearly just using it to help form my read, not base my read off of it.

You guys are focusing on weird things with me.

Pers is making this all personal and isnt saying whether he agrees with my reads or not and why.

Imp is focusing on my reading of Pers when my vote is on Phil and I am actively pushing Imp and not Pers.

[Formerfish]

fakeable ≠ definitely faked
fakeable ≠ probably faked
fakeable ≠ definitely fakeable by everyone
jesus fucking christ this is not complicated. It feels like you're trying to willfully misconstrue my sentiment.

Its not complicated and im not the one misunderstanding whats going on. That would be you.

Im saying that there is no need to say why you could be wrong in your read because its day 1 and we could all be wrong on our reads for any number of reasons. I have never claimed that my reads are going to be right 100% of the time.

But you dont see me sitting here and laying seeds of doubt as to why I could be wrong on dry, or hana, or thes. I am making a read based off the info I have and I am going to trust that read. Either you dont trust yourself and we shouldnt either, or you are fencesitting to see where the winds blow and who could be a viable mislynch for you guys today.

So im good on whats going on here, are you?

[Formerfish]

And I'm not really interested in your phil push right now; I don't find it especially swaying, though I'm happy to be convinced potentially.

Ok, could you point out which of my posts on Phil you take issue with and see as town where I see him as scum?

How about starting with his read and vote on JB?

JB comes in with RQS instead of RVS. Phil does a meta dive and finds that JB does this as town and scum. Phil comes back after his dive and still votes JB, and admits that he meta dived and found the act to be NAI for JB.

How do you defend that?

[Formerfish]

As for Dry-Fit:

Unvote. Vote: implosion.

Naked votes are more likely to come from scum in my experience.

In other news I wish Persivul didn't spill the beans so soon about our Innocent Child. Should of let more information and hilarity ensue.

I think this was a post you cited as being townish.

Voting me with that logic is, as far as I can tell, entirely null. It's a super trivial vote to fake if he's scum, it's something that can come from a certain kind of townie as well.

I assume your townread is based on the last line... but that last line is like, a REALLY easy thing for scum to throw in a post to get towncred. He's not actually extending the duration of me forgetting about the innocent child by saying that line, he's just saying the line. He as scum can very easily think "oh, it probably would have been good for town if persivul hadn't spilled the beans" and then mention that it would have been better to not spill the beans, even though mentioning it at this point accomplishes nothing for the town.

You are coming off like a one trick pony. I get things can be faked, I dont feel like he has been faking it. I can pick out other posts that exhibit what I mean better, since you only quoted the one where he voted you.

[Formerfish]

Pers is making this all personal and isnt saying whether he agrees with my reads or not and why.

Most people aren't saying whether they agree with your reads or not.

Here's where we're butting heads:

I would care as either alignment because that means that I no longer

have control over the game

at all and dont trust the living to listen to the dead to win us the game.

You bust in and want to have control over the game.

I naturally dislike/distrust people who want to be town leader. If they're scum and they succeed, it's usually game over for town. While you seem townie enough, you're exactly the kind of player I'd investigate. But, I'm unusual in that respect. Most people investigate obv scummy players who are going to get lynched anyway.

I think some have spoken to my reads, or have come out and said im town after seeing my reads, which would indicate to me that they were seeing enough in my reads and posts that they agree with.

And i dont agree with your night action process. You investigate in your nulls, scummy people you can get roped no matter what, and you have to trust your town reads at some point and make a leap.

[Formerfish]

see, I like elaborating reasons I might be wrong. Doing so will let me bounce ideas off of

actual helpful

players like elastic plastic and come to better conclusions. I like to work together with people, and being transparent about my thought process is a great way to do that.

I'm sorry you don't like my playstyle; you're welcome to keep using your own!

Is this a jab at me, or am i taking you wrong right now?

[Formerfish]

Similar to how I don't find it scummy of you to say that you've seen townies be super sure of themselves on d1, then call me scummy for being super sure of myself on d1.

Can yo go into more depth here? A quote or two would help nicely.

[Formerfish]

see, I like elaborating reasons I might be wrong. Doing so will let me bounce ideas off of

actual helpful

players like elastic plastic and come to better conclusions. I like to work together with people, and being transparent about my thought process is a great way to do that.

I'm sorry you don't like my playstyle; you're welcome to keep using your own!

Is this a jab at me, or am i taking you wrong right now?

It's a jab at the way you're approaching the game, specifically the fact that you're criticizing me for being transparent with my thought process, which I find flatly ridiculous.

Sorry not sorry. I approach the game the way I do because of how ive come to play the game over time. I would love to work with you on lynch you, phil, or drew and you have already expressed disinterest in you and phil, would you like to lynch drew?

If not, then im not sure how much more interaction we can have. I am willing to work with people and have put out a list to help facilitate that cooperation. Im not the one who is holding this train up, thats you.

[Formerfish]

To answer the question: I found your entrance severely lacking in self-awareness, but I don't find that to be indicative, was what I was meaning. What implo is pointing out here is one part of it. Your anecdote about the "cop level read" that was right but got mislynched.

(I particularly disliked how you characterised that as the fault of the person you lynched, for bonus points)

So what exactly am i lacking awareness about?

And yes, Alonzo should have never had that level of certainty as a vt on day 1 in a newbie game. Thats stupid. Even if he is right it doesnt matter on day 1.

[Formerfish]

Here's something from Phil that I think is really unlikely to come from scum.

So Phil is incapable of faking things as scum, but I am fully capable of doing that, but you dont think I am.

Did I get that right?

See, this feels like you are leaving the door open just enough so that if it ever looks like I might be a viable mislynch that you can justify your flip on me as scum based off the fact that you just went back and looked and now feel everything I did was faked.

[Formerfish]

Hey Kor, I voted for Phil awhile back

VOTE: phil

[Formerfish]

The train I was talking about was the one where we could work together. If we dont have common ground then thats an issue for me and needs to be addressed.

I dont know if you want me to actually say you are scum, like say those exact words, but I did sort you into 2nd from last in a game of 13, so you could infer that I think you are scum, or I could say it, which I feel like I did, when I offered to have you help us lynch yourself.

[Formerfish]

oh you mean the train of specifically cooperating with you.

But yeah that doesn't have to mean pushing the same people. And I'm not like, interested in primarily cooperating with someone who has me as their second scumread and is dismissing my entire playstyle. I'm more interested in trying to get you to see why you're wrong, and making sure other people see why you're wrong.

You telling me you arent scum isnt going to make me think you arent scum.

You pushing people who I think are town, people who you havent cased really at all, is not going to make me think you arent scum.

If the people i sr are the people you tr, and the people i tr are the people you scum read then something has to give there and I know my alignment so its you here...

[Formerfish]

Pretty confident Imposion/FormerFish is just TvT based on playstyle. So could we just knock it off and stop cluttering the thread? You two are worse than Inferno390 and TywinL were.

Well, youre wrong.

And dont playstyle police me. You dont get that right here.

Do you want to help me lynch imp, phil or drew? If not who do you want eating rope today?

[Formerfish]

The train I was talking about was the one where we could work together. If we dont have common ground then thats an issue for me and needs to be addressed.

I dont know if you want me to actually say you are scum, like say those exact words, but I did sort you into 2nd from last in a game of 13, so you could infer that I think you are scum, or I could say it, which I feel like I did, when I offered to have you help us lynch yourself.

this whole argument is completely moot afaic

At least we agree on one thing.

[Formerfish]

Imp im not telling anyone else how to play their game. I play mine the way I do and you all do the same.

You can dislike me and the way I play, but I will never tell someone else how to play.

[Formerfish]

Your solidity on the reads you're throwing out is doing really good impressions of that, is all. See also your comments about "crafting a narrative" in 398- your reads show no signs of changing after about somewhere around 408, and anything after that point not fitting them is ignored, discarded or twisted to fit your preconceptions. I don't think that the way you're doing it is scum behaviour. I do think that it represents an issue in reasoning.

Hell, look at 392 and compare it to 551.

PEdit: Wonderful, or 561 (and 474) and compare it to 393/388

[Formerfish]

Your solidity on the reads you're throwing out is doing really good impressions of that, is all. See also your comments about "crafting a narrative" in 398- your reads show no signs of changing after about somewhere around 408, and anything after that point not fitting them is ignored, discarded or twisted to fit your preconceptions. I don't think that the way you're doing it is scum behaviour. I do think that it represents an issue in reasoning.

Hell, look at 392 and compare it to 551.

PEdit: Wonderful, or 561 (and 474) and compare it to 393/388

During my catch up there is a time where i start to catch my own tail, when that happened most of the info i took in was from before, and no one really interacted with me much during my catch up.

Of course I am eventually going to form reads, and I think you can see how that came about during my read through and what I posted. If anyone has a question about someone specific, like Imp on Dry, i can go into more depth and discuss any of my reads.

If people want to talk to me and sort me they can, I feel like ive been pretty open so far.

408 is where JB posted his reads and I reacted to it with my own. Whats wrong with forming reads after catching up? Isnt this the game we are playing?

392 was me questioning Imps read on Jackel based off 2 posts. 551 is me saying that Imp was fine with reading Jack as town off a few posts, is now weary of me after everything ive said, and is cool with you being 100% town to him.

Those dont match up, and dont show a discrepancy with my process.

Not sure what your pedit is trying to say, but ill just go ahead and disagree,

[Formerfish]

Vote: Chemist1422

Laziest post so far.

Solid RVS vote.

Dryfit, any specific reads on that list you disagree with, or just generically don't feel they're good?

More I just don't think they're good in general.

Although to be fair the Jackal town read wasn't too bad, albeit based on one post.

Having conflicting reads about James right now.

I liked this post for showing the start of a process.

Unvote. Vote: implosion.

Naked votes are more likely to come from scum in my experience.

In other news I wish Persivul didn't spill the beans so soon about our Innocent Child. Should of let more information and hilarity ensue.

I liked this vote because you are eventaully going to vote for 6 different people in 40 posts and I dont think you back up any of them with even a joke reason.

And I agree with his stance on Pers that it would have been useful to town for more info to come out. I can understand why you disagree because you were scumreading the Innocent Child and thats just embarrassing.

Can people start doing more AI stuff.

Why not do something to try to make that happen? You're play has been very passive so far.

Drew's Persivul vote is probably the worst vote of the game so far.

Gonna try to get a reread in tonight.

Why does scumDry poke Hana here? Scum would languish in the fact that the thread is dead and nothing was happening that forced them to act. Like I am now. Scum is going to be forced to come out of their hidey holes and try to discredit me as much as possible.

And Drews vote was pretty bad.

Question though, why did you want us bumbling fools who didn't notice the IC reveal/who the IC was to remain ignorant to it? What benefit does it offer town?

You want Sakura to do things to develop reads, yet you also want us bumbling fools to dance for your jollies. And what sort of usable info would you pull from this?

If players think that Skellen is unconfirmed, they will interact with her differently than they will when she's confirmed IC. So it's basically two interactions for the price of one. One interaction with unconfirmed Skellen, and one with IC Skellen. Who knows what info we would have gotten if Persivul had held back Skellen's role, but it could well have been useful. As it is, we got implosion's scumread on Skellen. Nothing about it seems noteworthy to me, but others may be able to glean something from it.

This is from a town mindset.

Im against your policy lynch, as It discourages genuine clash. If someone comes across poorly you try to kill them... which is toxic in and of its self.

Do you really think there's any chance of a policy lynch? This seems like a contrived attempt at contributing.

implosion wagon doesn't look possible today so

Unvote. Vote: Thespio.

This is the only suspect post in the bunch of them, and you didnt even use it as your evidence of him being scum.

1 scummy post out of 6 that I pulled from his iso doesnt make him scum to me, it makes him town, with a slight lean.

[Formerfish]

Ok Imp, show me town Phil.

[Formerfish]

Hana, I need you to explain your vote history to me.

You were on phil, and then when thes said he thought phil was suspect you voted thes.

Then Dry voted for thes, and you voted for dry.

It seems like you are scumreading the people who are scumreading the people you are currently voting and you keep changing your vote to the person who most recently voted or sr the person youre on.

Why?

[Formerfish]

Foeming reads as you go along is great, and is indeed the game we're playing. 408's content is nothing to do with this and more "after this point, nothing changes". You stopped forming reads and started hardening them. You had capital D Decided, and from there forward you are piling evidence on your existing reads and ignoring or discarding anything that doesn't fit.

Pretty sure Sakura spotted this starting to happen in 436, what with the "I feel like I was reading an exciting book and i can predict how it will end." comment.

(Hardening reads: again, not inherently a problem, just

all

new information should be contributing to the hardening (or softening, or changing) rather than just the convenient stuff)

PEdit: though if that's a genuine "show me town phil", I admit that changes things. Slightly ironically.

408 was me using JBs reads as a litmus test to see how on the same page we were. I used it to help me read JB and was able to see him as more town than anything else. My reads didnt stop, they plateaued because we are at a point where the only info well get is from wagons and claims and flips.

You could ask Hana what she meant by that, i kinda figured she realized I was going to see what was happening in the thread and would gauge things correctly.

I take all info in and it goes through a process. Its like when I was managing restaurants. I had all types of reports and stats i could track to figure out what to do and when, but at some point along the way I dont need to see every single report before I make a decision. Sometimes I can look around at a few key areas and come up with a decision that is based on current situation and past experience to say that a certain action will be ok. I dont need to see everything or have all the info, cause thats never going to happen and is not feasible at all.

And yes, Imp wanted me to town case Dry because he cant see it. Imp calls you town and i think youre scum, I want him to show me where im going wrong on you and why I should have you as a town read and not as scum.

[Formerfish]

Hana, I need you to explain your vote history to me.

You were on phil, and then when thes said he thought phil was suspect you voted thes.

Then Dry voted for thes, and you voted for dry.

It seems like you are scumreading the people who are scumreading the people you are currently voting and you keep changing your vote to the person who most recently voted or sr the person youre on.

Why?

My reads are pretty flickle on day 1.
I felt Phil was scummy, but after implosion explained dry i felt like that was scummier so i voted dry, but now i didnt like the implo post i linked so there's a 180 there.

Sorry if im bad at explaining orz

Do you feel like you are on an island?

[Formerfish]

Can people start doing more AI stuff.

Be a leader. There has been plenty said that you could push at this point. You've seemed town so far, this seems lazy and scummy.

Im not a good leader.

Thats fair. Then understand where you are weak and figure out a way to not be weak there. If you cant lead then you need to figure out how to find someone you can sheep.

Hana this will help you if your day 1 is sketchy.

[Formerfish]

I feel like we're talking past each other somewhat

You and Imp said the same thing about me. I dont know if this is a scum thing where you pretend I dont make sense so that you can attempt to discredit me or what.

I feel like I have understood your points against me and have shown why I think they are wrong. What arent I getting?

[Formerfish]

Do you feel like you are on an island?

Honestly, i feel more like im on a jungle.

Find a machete.

[Formerfish]

408 itself Is nothing to do with any point I am making. I get what you are talking about in that post. You do not need to continually explain it. It is just noticable in the context of your ISO as the last point at which anything really changes. It makes sense as a natural plateau only if you genuinely believe that everything after 135 is not info (outside of, as you say, wagons, claims and flips, of which we've had none). Given you've been calling out people for making reads based on what you consider to be not enough posts, that feels real early to hit that "plateau"

I havent stopped letting new info affect my reads.

I didnt stop reading at post 135 and call it a day. The post you are talking about is 408, where JB gave his reads, and I gave my take on them.

At the end of my read through I gave a reads list based off what I had read.

How do you suggest I do it differently?

[Formerfish]

Phil if you keep playing this way you are going to have to change the number in your sig agian.

[Formerfish]

If Pers and Imps were scum together, why wouldn’t Pers just tell him in their PT?

I generally assume out of the newbie thread that scum dont get day talk.

[Formerfish]

Hana, I need you to explain your vote history to me.

You were on phil, and then when thes said he thought phil was suspect you voted thes.

Then Dry voted for thes, and you voted for dry.

It seems like you are scumreading the people who are scumreading the people you are currently voting and you keep changing your vote to the person who most recently voted or sr the person youre on.

Why?

My reads are pretty flickle on day 1.
I felt Phil was scummy, but after implosion explained dry i felt like that was scummier so i voted dry, but now i didnt like the implo post i linked so there's a 180 there.

Sorry if im bad at explaining orz

Do you feel like you are on an island?

What does this mean?

It's a metaphor. It's a feeling I get as town a lot. I have a hard time pushing my scumspects and if I don't have someone else I can talk to in game I start getting very jumpy and paranoid.

[Formerfish]

It's also not *really* cluttering the thread because the thread was kind of dead-ish until ff replaced in

So it was dead until I replaced in.

FF posted a hundred fucking posts in one night

Then youre mad about me posting.

FF posted a hundred fucking posts in one night

And youre still upset with the amount of activity now.

Should I just piss off and let you run the town into the ground? Like if you want me to take a backseat to you and think ill just watch as you slowly veer into oncoming traffic im not that guy.

Ill yell from rooftops how scummy i think my scumreads are, and you havent shown one shred of evidence to even look in your votes direction yet. So, check?

[Formerfish]

Holy shit I thought imp was exaggerating, but fish has 143 posts already.

Thats nothing, last newbie i finished at 1500+ posts.

[Formerfish]

there's a difference between reviving the thread, and flooding it and taking over around 75% of all discourse.

it's a fine line, but i think you can figure out how to tread it

Would it have been more acceptable to you if I had been here all along and had those conversations live? Just imagine that happened, could explain why youre so salty towards me.

[Formerfish]

Thats nothing, last newbie i finished at 1500+ posts.

Which makes it impossible to reasonably analyze your ISO for most players.

Also means that I provided enough content to trap both scum.

We lynched one as a surprise swing, and then the other conceded and we won.

So you see unreadable and I see a gauntlet being throw down to the scummers in the game to come at me.

They did in that game, hard. Tried to kill me n1 and then tunneled me the rest of the way. Would have gotten away with it too if it werent for that scrappy town, and their dog too.

[Formerfish]

It was also just luck that I have insomnia and the people i was playing with in that game were mostly overseas and their day was my night.

Thats cool, its easier to respond to me by isoing me and ctrl fing yourself to see what i said. I usually quote when responding.

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Persivul

VOTE: Phillammon

Unvote

VOTE: Sakura Hana

VOTE: Chemist1422

Unvote. Vote: implosion.

Naked votes are more likely to come from scum in my experience.

In other news I wish Persivul didn't spill the beans so soon about our Innocent Child. Should of let more information and hilarity ensue.

Imp you made 4 pretty naked votes and then Dry voted you. Then you voted Thes and then Dry for your 5th and 6th votes.

I liked what Dry was saying about your first 4 votes, because it matched how I felt, and still feel about you.

Get your shit straight if youre going to come at me.

[Formerfish]

Tbh people make the "my vote is now serious" line a lot so I don't see the problem with the vote that defies causality

Isnt that the basis behind RVS votes that become serious? Also, the thing im being accused of is wrong, Imp made 4 naked votes and then dry called him out for it.

So me saying i liked Dry isnt changed by the fact that Imp naked voted twice more, it makes me like dry even more and Imp even less.

[Formerfish]

So by extension because you had one game where you voted a bunch and then tunneled one of them and was right that I should ignore my town reads and follow you here because you did this once and werent wrong then, so how could you be now?

This is logic that my 6 year old tries to use against me when I tell her not to do something because its dangerous, and shell tell me she hasnt ever gotten hurt doing it.

What happens if we lynch Dry and he flips town?

[Formerfish]

I'd love if the bottom 6 on the activity list would become active, especially the people I feel haven't been active since I replaced in, like drew, dry and thes.

Until then I snooze and then venture out into the world of public busses for the first time ever. Car is in the shop fixing a bum tranny, and I have a consult with a debt lawyer at 2. Shits gonna get interesting.

[Formerfish]

And not the bottom 6 like total, like the people who are still in this game but haven't posted on 10hrs or more.

[Formerfish]

Anyone around?

[Formerfish]

Pers, what are your reads so far?

Ep, you too.

[Formerfish]

Told ya!

Well this makes sense now.

[Formerfish]

So your town to scum is

Spang
Sky
JB
Hana

Gob

Drew
Gamma
Chem

FF
Imp

Thes
Phil

That about right?

Why arent you willing to work with me on lynching Phil then?

We both have him as our strongest scum reads, and ive been looking at other peoples reads and thes, gamma, and sky all dont like phil too much.

[Formerfish]

Sky, what do you think of my Phil-town argument?

Did you make a Phil town case?

I looked through your iso a bit and could have missed it, but i saw when you responded to my Dry town case, and I asked you to town case Phil after i made that case, and didnt see a town case for phil.

So would you mind pointing out where you made that case?

[Formerfish]

Imp while youre here, can I get a full reads list?

[Formerfish]

Hello!

Hi, are you a true newbie or is this an alt?

[Formerfish]

Sky can I get a full reads list from you?

[Formerfish]

Why arent you willing to work with me on lynching Phil then?

We both have him as our strongest scum reads, and ive been looking at other peoples reads and thes, gamma, and sky all dont like phil too much.

Pers, why did you ignore this part of my post?

I feel like this was the more important part.

[Formerfish]

I have played mafia on a site called smash boards but that was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away

Well, this is going to be interesting for us all then.

Im assuming you have a basic knowledge of whats going on?

[Formerfish]

Alright, I have actual lists from myself, imp, Pers, JB (from his reads post), and Sky.

I have partial lists for everyone else except for Phil and Gob, Phil cause I havent gotten there yet and gob because he hasnt posted any yet.

[Formerfish]

Would you like me to post a read list

Please, if everyone could I would like to see if what I have matches what is said.

Also, Gamma, who is Percy? I assume it was an autocorrect, but cant figure out for who.

[Formerfish]

Percy = Persivul

Ok, that makes sense.

[Formerfish]

Sorry, has been

really warm

and checking in here slipped my mind. You want a full read list, FF?

I basically have one for you, but yes please. Id like to see something.

[Formerfish]

I feel like The Fish could be my dad.

I did once have a fling with a turkey, is your mom Gobble Gobgobble Gob?

[Formerfish]

(Sorry, not sure if I'm missing some lingo here- is there more to "mind meld" than just "I agree with this person's thoughts", or...)

Its how i find town blocks, I look for the people who are thinking the same way that I am because it usually means they are town too, or they are scum trying to push an agenda which will show itself eventually, and if scum wants to help me lynch scum then I am more then happy to oblige them, and even thank them for bussing when they do it.

[Formerfish]

Read list, no ordering within the tiers

Town: Ffish, Spangled, Chemist, Turkey (what I'm calling Gobbledygook), Phil, Percy
Null: Sakura, SkyG
Scum: Thespio, Implo, Dr. Drew, James

Phil moved up a lot from where you had him before, and I dont remember james being a scum read for you. The rest is about where you were or you hadnt said yet.

[Formerfish]

but I'm perfectly willing to answer any questions on my reads

Sorry, I thought I had more of an implication than i did.

[Formerfish]

but I'm perfectly willing to answer any questions on my reads

Sorry, I thought I had more of an implication than i did.

Fair enough
Phil has been asking questions and being pro-active so I think they're town. James just lacks follow-up which seems scummy to me.

Why is your vote on Thes over Imp, Drew and JB?

[Formerfish]

I feel like The Fish could be my dad.

I did once have a fling with a turkey, is your mom Gobble Gobgobble Gob?

So you do know her!

SON!!!!

[Formerfish]

Totally reasonable on both counts, thanks. Bump Sakura up to townlean on previous readlist, I'm pretty sure I just convinced myself her behaviour was scummy rather than actually seeing any scummy behaviour, if that makes sense.

Cool.
But i still think you're scum.

do you have more reads, your iso doesnt have many?

[Formerfish]

First of all it seems you're ignoring everything else Fish has posted.
Second have you never seen scum ask for reads lists?

hana, are you grilling Gob because you disagree with the read, or the way that he got it?

[Formerfish]

Yes I do, everytime i form a read i mention it in the thread. It's an habit of mine.

Youve talked about me, JB, Imp, Gob, Thes and now Phil. I miss anyone?

[Formerfish]

First of all it seems you're ignoring everything else Fish has posted.
Second have you never seen scum ask for reads lists?

hana, are you grilling Gob because you disagree with the read, or the way that he got it?

the way he got it.
I thought it was obvious i townread you i mentioned it in thread, and i've been asked like 1000000 times about it >_<

I know your read on me, thats why i had to ask. So do you think scumGob comes in and buddies me right out of the gate?

[Formerfish]

And dry-fit:

Missed Chem, but Dry became Gob.

[Formerfish]

i think ill do that actually
VOTE: chemist

So you are cool with voting along side your scum read of Phil on Chem?

[Formerfish]

i think ill do that actually
VOTE: chemist

So you are cool with voting along side your scum read of Phil on Chem?

Yes why?

No reason, just making sure you knew Phil was voting in the same place. Do you see Phil and Chem being scum together? Why would Phil have his vote parked on his buddy like that?

[Formerfish]

Sakura why can't you see Chemist as town?

I have him more in my nulls, what are you seeing that is so town?

[Formerfish]

Fair.

[Formerfish]

Thes is at 4 votes
Gob is at 3
Chems at 2
Phil 1
Pers 1
2 people arent voting.

Im not seeing scum in Gobslot, nor am i seeing scum in thes.

Chem could be scum, but it would be like plan E for me.

I could see a drew lynch?

[Formerfish]

Thes needs to post. Like anything.

Thes I see you online, you around?

[Formerfish]

Thespio?

[Formerfish]

Im starting to feel like Thes caught some town feels early on, then bounced letting his defenders defend him while he just coasts.

Im starting to lose my tr on him, and dont hate his wagon comp.

[Formerfish]

Up to page 10. Initial thoughts are that everyone needs to learn to when to use parentheses, my goodness.

That is an odd first (second?) observation.

[Formerfish]

Pretty sure my heart ripped in two when I realized The Jackal is The Fish's predecessor.

Dont feel that way, i will more than make up for what my pred lacked. Wait til you get to my catch up.

[Formerfish]

Im here to dance if anyone feels froggy...

[Formerfish]

Donald Duck. Who wears a vest with no pants on?

[Formerfish]

Wdym

He means it's hard for him to play on his phone because everything is smaller and his eyes have a harder time reading what's written then when he is on a computer.

Some things are just what they are and there's no ulterior motive to what's said.

[Formerfish]

@Mod: my name's Sakura Hana not Sakura Hara

Also
VOTE: Thesp
didn't realize we were so close to deadline already.

I feel like we have different definitions of close to deadline.

Agreed. 5 days is a lot of time, and it feels like Hana is throwing in the towel for today and is just voting the wagon with the most smoke.

Hana, do you feel strongly about Thes being scum? I feel like you haven't made even a half hearted push on anyone yet and yet you're resigning yourself to a thes lynch because....

[Formerfish]

I would like everyone to a) explain their read on Drew, and b) explain their read on Sakura.

Drew could be scum, Hana is someone I wait to sort because their d1 play doesn't elicit much for me to read off of.

[Formerfish]

Why 4 days? Seems arbitrary.

__

I would like everyone to a) explain their read on Drew, and b) explain their read on Sakura.

Drew could be scum, Hana is someone I wait to sort because their d1 play doesn't elicit much for me to read off of.

What do you think about the lack of a Phil wagon?

Not sure. He seems to be a top 3 scum pick for a lot of people, if have to get on my computer to be more precise.

I think it's telling that imp asks me for a town case, and I give a full one on Dry, now you. I felt dry was town and feel like you are more town than he was.

I asked imp to town case Phil and he rehashes 2 posts he already made instead.

Thes also isn't doing anything to help himself right now, and don't know if he is town trying to survive or scum trying not to implicate himself and his buddies too much.

Hana has been playing weird, but I feel like I always scum read her for this when we play, Hana do you feel that way too?

[Formerfish]

Hana do you feel that way too?

Yes, although you wouldn't be the only one.
In fact im more weirded out by not being globally scumread by now.

So you think people should be scum reading you?

[Formerfish]

In fact, fuck it. Shit or get off the face is what I say.

You are trying to deflect off thespio turkey man.....I think this is a scum v scum wagon, ie thespio and turkey are both scum.

VOTE: gobbledygook

This is the second worst vote you've made.

Gob makes a case against drew. Drew agrees the case is as presented, and that Gob made the correct assessment of Drew's actions. Drew reads him as scum for this?

This is almost as bad as Phil meta diving to prove a point, and then ignored the evidence when it didn't fit his dickful thinking and voted JB anyways.

VOTE: DREW

This is a wagon I could compromise on if imp and Phil aren't viable.

[Formerfish]

I kinda think tunneling has a bad rap.

I prefer to come to a tentative conclusion based off the gamestate and then will take new info and incorporate it where it fits.

People who accuse me of tunneling have a high tendency to flip scum, and tunnel is the popterm they use to discredit my read.

If I think someone is scum I'll push them until it's clear I'm pushing a vanity wagon. Then I'll try to work with my town block.

[Formerfish]

VOTE COUNT 1.16

Thespio (4, L-3!):

Persivul, James Brafin, Gamma Emerald, Sakura Hana

gobbledygook (3):

Skygazer, implosion, Doctor Drew

Doctor Drew (3):

gobbledygook, Formerfish, Chemist1422

Chemist1422 (1):

Phillammon

Phillammon (0):

Persivul (0):

implosion (0):

Sakura Hana (0):

James Brafin (0):

Gamma Emerald (0):

Formerfish (0):

Spangled (0):

Skygazer (0):

No-Lynch (0):

Not Voting (2):

Spangled, Thespio
With

13

alive, it takes

7

to lynch.

(expired on 2019-07-31 21:10:00) remain in the day.

Mod Notes

:
- Remember: Flavor is just flavor. Don't use it to make arguments.
- Reminder: There is no plurality. If nobody is lynched by deadline, it's treated as a no-lynch.
- I will be pseudo-V/LA until July 28th or 29th. While I will still be around, please submit all actions to the worst as well.

People should come vote Drew, we have cake and punch over here.

[Formerfish]

Thespio, what policy do you think James is pursuing against you?

inactivity, hes determined without evaluating anyone who is active that I am lurking scum rather then low activity town, Who benefits from pushing a lynch 4-5 days before the deadline?

Thes, are you current in the thread or are you behind?

[Formerfish]

Spoiler:

So Phillammom, you seem odd... your ISO isnt the best

Still catching up, not sure why i cant get in a a groove here, but I went through Phil's iso.......what did you find so odd.

Also, from skimming the game I was not liking James, but his interactions do seem town sided to meUNVOTE:

Why thespio though

did you *see* post 151???

I directly asked him about 151, hoping to hear some reasoning momentarily.

Drew, what do you feel is off with 151?

I mean, not that I'm objecting.

I disliked it initially for laziness and feigning interaction and I wanted of an explanation which I never got(did notice he is close to a prod though, maybe he is busy or something).

But, pers brings up a great point in 214 which really gets me thinking. That coupled with the hole being an ass thing.

I hope he comes back, none of this really gets sorted out with a replacement.

I feel like you guys are too scared to do this
VOTE: Thespio

I would prefer to wait for his response/potential replacement to respond.

Dry fits 303 looks worse than his vote imo.

I would still like to here from thespio before I decide who to vote though, and tbh I really don't like the thespio wagon.

These are your 4 posts concerning Thespio. Let me know if this list is incorrect.

---

I actually really strongly dislike Skellen's two posts so far. It reads like scum who opened the thread, saw James's question and said "oh sure, I can answer that", then continued reading the thread looking for something to respond to, saw my post with my random-ass townreads, and went "oh sure, I can give a response to this."

Push that and I'll fight you to the end.

Interesting, why

Because skellen's the fucking IC.

Okay I'm fucking stupid.

Wtf is this from Persivul?

I missed the IC reveal at the beginning of the game, no offense to mod but it wasn't blatantly obvious. Your reaction to someone, who clearly didn't see the reveal, was way way too aggressive instead of just 'Hey dude, you know he is mod confirmed IC right?'

1.x

VOTE: Persivul

2.x

Can people start doing more AI stuff.

More of a reactionary sort of player?

1.y

I actually really strongly dislike Skellen's two posts so far. It reads like scum who opened the thread, saw James's question and said "oh sure, I can answer that", then continued reading the thread looking for something to respond to, saw my post with my random-ass townreads, and went "oh sure, I can give a response to this."

Push that and I'll fight you to the end.

Interesting, why

Because skellen's the fucking IC.

Okay I'm fucking stupid.

Wtf is this from Persivul?

I missed the IC reveal at the beginning of the game, no offense to mod but it wasn't blatantly obvious. Your reaction to someone, who clearly didn't see the reveal, was way way too aggressive instead of just 'Hey dude, you know he is mod confirmed IC right?'

But I did see it, my second post acknowledged it
I just didn't pay attention the the "who"

Isn't that basically what I just said? Let me rephrase, you were not aware of who the IC was whereas I(and Implosion I believe?) was not aware of the reveal.

Either way, point still stands about Persivul.

3.x

You say it's a reaction to someone who didn't see the reveal
But I feel like I'm getting pedantic here so w/e

Well, tbf, I didn't realize you did acknowledge it in your second post until you mentioned. So to that point I was incorrect.

But, the greater point was Persivul's reaction to someone wanting to put pressure on the IC when they didn't realize said person was the IC.

Like a somewhat buddying of the only confirmed townie.

4.x

In other news I wish Persivul didn't spill the beans so soon about our Innocent Child. Should of let more information and hilarity ensue.

^ Person with a sense of humor.

Lol sick burn bro.

What good motivation is there is letting it drag on 'for hilarity' though? Or even for making the post? There was nothing there to help the game move forward or to help town find scum.

Bah, still rubbing me the wrong way....but now for different reasons.

5.x

I need to step away from Persivul for a bit.

I think implosion's town tho, even if their reads are the complete opposite of mine.

Sakura, while talking reads......what do you think of per and myself?

2.y

Can people start doing more AI stuff.

More of a reactionary sort of player?

Also Sakura, can you answer this por favor.

3.y

Why must it come from a scum mindset?

Maybe I am thinking of my own meta, but I am way more likely to as town to scum slip vs being scum and scum slip. Imo, getting people angry just mislynches town.

6.x

These are the posts that I think are you focusing on Persivul and Sakura. During the same period you were questioning Thespio, you also made these posts. There are 6 posts focused on Persivul (denoted by "[number].x" )and 3 posts (denoted by "[number].y") focused on Sakura. That is 4 more than the ones directed at Thespio. These are the posts that made me think you had a fixation on Persivul and Sakura.

I personally think that this type of behavior shows you were trying to keep your options open to join a Thespio wagon. The Thespio quotes in the first half of this post look like you are gearing up for a vote based off him not answering your first question. That makes me suspicious of you.

Oddly enough, until your vote on me, I did not think you had enough conviction in your beliefs/actions/votes. Your recent play is making me feel better about you, but I am having trouble understanding why your play now is only becoming townier after I made a case against you.

This post bleeds town to me. Gob just took Drew apart with ease. This post added to this one from earlier,

Spoiler:

That's... an awkward reason to townread someone who has many more reasons to be townread.

It's a really awkward reason to focus on for explaining your TR.

Is it though? Explain to me why it’s awkward

for me

to use that as a basis to townread a player.

First of all it seems you're ignoring everything else Fish has posted.
Second have you never seen scum ask for reads lists?

1) I just joined this game. Did you expect me to have read 30 pages of a game that quickly? I find your questioning of my read suspicious. You admit that there are multiple reasons to think that The Fish is town, but then find my reason "awkward" when there is very little likelihood that I would have read enough of the game to see any of the other reasons.
2) I have, but The Fish seems to be going through ISOs before asking for specific read lists. He appears to be crosschecking previously stated reads with the current read lists that people are posting. That is town. What has The Fish done that is more town?

I will begin reading this game from the beginning.

Oh and this one

Spoiler:

It is a couple of reasons. I felt like Drew blew Persivul’s anger out of proportion. I also like Drew is facesitting on a lot of major wagons and parking his vote until a better opportunity presents itself. He is being too cautious with his vote. I also think that a Drew flip will help me get better reads on Sakura and Persivul. Drew is oddly fixated on those two.

Can you explain the overall case on Thespio? I feel like he is suffering from the same thing Phil suffered from - weird ways of communicating his feelings.

Oh and this gem

Spoiler:

I actually really strongly dislike Skellen's two posts so far. It reads like scum who opened the thread, saw James's question and said "oh sure, I can answer that", then continued reading the thread looking for something to respond to, saw my post with my random-ass townreads, and went "oh sure, I can give a response to this."

Push that and I'll fight you to the end.

Interesting, why

Because skellen's the fucking IC.

Okay I'm fucking stupid.

Wtf is this from Persivul?

I missed the IC reveal at the beginning of the game, no offense to mod but it wasn't blatantly obvious. Your reaction to someone, who clearly didn't see the reveal, was way way too aggressive instead of just 'Hey dude, you know he is mod confirmed IC right?'

I find this reaction to Persivul to be embellishing Persivul's tone. I did not find Persivul's reaction to be aggressive. He may have used aggressive or more blunt language, but Persivul did not

feel

aggressive to me when I read this exchange. This post is not problematic in its own right, but this post essentially becomes a crutch that Drew leans on for a few days.

VOTE: Persivul

You say it's a reaction to someone who didn't see the reveal
But I feel like I'm getting pedantic here so w/e

Well, tbf, I didn't realize you did acknowledge it in your second post until you mentioned. So to that point I was incorrect.

But, the greater point was Persivul's reaction to someone wanting to put pressure on the IC when they didn't realize said person was the IC.

Like a somewhat buddying of the only confirmed townie.

I disagree completely with the notion that what Persivul did is "buddying the only confirmed townie". I think Persivul's reaction is to someone wasting their effort in scumhunting by going after an IC. To me, it looked like Persivul was more attacking those who did not know Skellen was the IC and less defending Skellen.

In other news I wish Persivul didn't spill the beans so soon about our Innocent Child. Should of let more information and hilarity ensue.

^ Person with a sense of humor.

Lol sick burn bro.

What good motivation is there is letting it drag on 'for hilarity' though? Or even for making the post? There was nothing there to help the game move forward or to help town find scum.

Bah, still rubbing me the wrong way....but now for different reasons.

I do not like this post at all. Persivul is not gaining any traction at this point and the tone from this looks like Drew is upset that no one else is talking about this I do not like the last line of the first sentence either. That line reads to me as holier-than-thou like Drew wants to look like an advocate for the gamestate/scumhunting.

Didn't say it did. I'm asking a question. Is there any way that it comes from a town mindset? How is this a town-aligned way to approach the game?

I agree with you, and as I think about it I dislike 151 more and more.

But, if it isn't town aligned it's.....

This, if I remember correctly, was before Thespio had garnered any votes. However, several people had aroused suspicion and dislike for Thespio. I think this is Drew waiting for others to move onto the wagon so that he has his own basis for jumping onto the wagon later.

All of these posts show why Gob is town, these are all gold.

[Formerfish]

Drew looking worse by the second, Gobble making a poor first impression on me.

This is off to me. I would assume that drew was looking bad because Gob was pushing him and casing Drew. So to like the case brought by Gob, but not liking Gob seems like a contradiction on your thought process.