Mini Normal 2098 - Game Over! (Mafia Won)

[Garmr]

Hi guys.
Relatively new on mafiascum, but i've got a few games under my belt off-site. Are y'all veterans or what?
Anyway looking forward to a fun game.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE
I'm town so lets sNorweigan sheep me.

[Garmr]

Your new name is Snoreweigan

[Garmr]

I'm being /s by the way. That joke is the

biggest pile of garbage I've read on this site so far.

Welp if you thought that was bad your going to enjoy going down the rabbit hole we call mafia scum.

[Garmr]

I'm being /s by the way. That joke is the

biggest pile of garbage I've read on this site so far.

Welp if you thought that was bad your going to enjoy going down the rabbit hole we call mafia scum.

Wow, not even an apology? I’m sorry, but you’re going to have to be lynched for that. ;(
VOTE: Garmr

Apologies are for the weak.

[Garmr]

@Profii
If you are seriously claiming you believe my vote on Garmr was serious then i'm scumreading you already.

I agree it was easy to tell you were having fun but why is profii scum?

[Garmr]

VOTE: skellen

This is odd.

Skellen has never posted anything in this board and here you are coming in and voting Skellen without saying anything about him. Why Skellen?

Went to check if you are new after this post your not. Noticed you gave a blank vote before as well. That being said I don't know if scum would post something that would make them look like a newer player.

[Garmr]

If so Not really. I was just really tired & pretty high & still at work so a naked RVS vote was alll I could muster up

Talking to kraeg I could tell it was Rvs.

[Garmr]

Game is already out of RVS after a few posts 'cause of Norwegian.

Also, I'm getting a bad feeling about Billy's V/LA. I've been a player of this game for like years already and I've seen mafia abuse the V/LA as an excuse to avoid everyone. I'm not a big fan of people going on V/LAs.

Are you trying to pull some sort of slayers gambit? You look surface level scummy but when I think of a reason why scum would be saying what you say I can't find one. The logic is bad.

[Garmr]

I couldn't find any scum game in your finished games either.

Is this your first scum game? Because when I was skimming your past town games they didn't seem like you right now.

[Garmr]

Hmm I'm mulling over kraeg I'm just going to put him to the side for a bit. All I can take from his post is something is making him jumpy. The only possibilities I can think of are.
1.This is first scum game and his having trouble entering.
2 he has a power role,
3.His pulling a slayers gambit.

He will probably need to be sorted sometime latter on but I am watching to see what they do next.



I looked at skellen, I get her play is textbook and generic but I seen town do this as well.and it's rvs so the wagon isn't that appealing to me. That being said I liked profii's initial vote on the wagon. I don't think I need to go to indepth with the town read since I think it's the common opinion.


Emperor flippyNips is kinda jumpy but It's not really that scummy.


Luca blight I find interesting. They are currently voting Skellen for being generic responses that seem polished ect. But their post 94 is pretty generic as well as it's just stating the obvious.

What I find interesting is they said they found everything skellen said the same thought they had. If you found what they said agreeable and mirroring your own. Wouldn't you be a bit conflicted if they are town or not. They were like oh yeah I had the same feeling as you profii. It's early rvs so I'm more forgiving of being hollow but it seems like they are trying to portray image of having independent thought with out throwing something out that breaks the mold or makes them stand out.


It's funny how placed in juxtaposition to each other both come off as generic actions but one null and the other comes off as scummy to me.

VOTE: Luca Blight

[Garmr]

I don't think I need to go to indepth with the town read since I think it's the common opinion.

what made you think that?

I read the atmosphere and the flow tells me you will be town read. It's hard to explain but I used the concept of flow in previous games. But with it I can make predictions the longer the games go on. What interest me most is when I'm wrong with a prediction because that means their information I missed or was wrong on.

I googled slayers gambit and google took me to the wiki on this very site

You've mentioned it twice but it seems you dont believe it yourself, Garmr.

Yes in a way that's true. I want to scum read him for it but every scenario I play out I can't find a scum motivation. It's a conflict of mind and heart.


Since you engaged with me it would be a waste to let this slip.

What do you think of post 98. There are a lot similarities between luca and skellen. But the differences are why I find luca scummier. How do you feel about luca and his jump onto the skellen wagon?

There are similarities between skellen and luca blight

[Garmr]

@Profii
The only game we played together was a scum one, so unsure if I'm good at reading you. Going to have to use this game as the bench mark.

[Garmr]

Hmm I'm mulling over kraeg I'm just going to put him to the side for a bit. All I can take from his post is something is making him jumpy. The only possibilities I can think of are.
1.This is first scum game and his having trouble entering.
2 he has a power role,
3.His pulling a slayers gambit.

He will probably need to be sorted sometime latter on but I am watching to see what they do next.



I looked at skellen, I get her play is textbook and generic but I seen town do this as well.and it's rvs so the wagon isn't that appealing to me. That being said I liked profii's initial vote on the wagon. I don't think I need to go to indepth with the town read since I think it's the common opinion.


Emperor flippyNips is kinda jumpy but It's not really that scummy.


Luca blight I find interesting. They are currently voting Skellen for being generic responses that seem polished ect. But their post 94 is pretty generic as well as it's just stating the obvious.

What I find interesting is they said they found everything skellen said the same thought they had. If you found what they said agreeable and mirroring your own. Wouldn't you be a bit conflicted if they are town or not. They were like oh yeah I had the same feeling as you profii. It's early rvs so I'm more forgiving of being hollow but it seems like they are trying to portray image of having independent thought with out throwing something out that breaks the mold or makes them stand out.


It's funny how placed in juxtaposition to each other both come off as generic actions but one null and the other comes off as scummy to me.

VOTE: Luca Blight

I don't really like the speculating over a PR here, that sort of thing never sits well with me especially this early on. No idea what you're talking about with regards to the 'slayers gambit'.

Coasting along with the 'popular opinion' also doesn't sit well with me.

You said it yourself, we're barely out of RVS - why would I be feeling conflicted at this stage? There isn't nearly enough information to base a strong SR on, it was just a feeling I had. Most of my scum pings around the RVS stage come from posts that seem a little too polished and precise, and even though I couldn't disagree with what Skellen wrote during her opening, that feeling did pass over me.

Oh ho your tone is very defensive with that passive aggression.


So do you think bring up a scenario were a slot may be a pr role makes me scum? What purpose do you think I have doing it?



I said I don't have to explain why, not I'm going to go with popular opinion because I don't have my own on profii, it just happens to align. I almost did list what I liked in my original post through but I changed my mind and left it out on purpose to see how people would react.

If you were trying to get a read on me you would of thought of the implications.

[Garmr]

Hmm I'm mulling over kraeg I'm just going to put him to the side for a bit. All I can take from his post is something is making him jumpy. The only possibilities I can think of are.
1.This is first scum game and his having trouble entering.
2 he has a power role,
3.His pulling a slayers gambit.

He will probably need to be sorted sometime latter on but I am watching to see what they do next.



I looked at skellen, I get her play is textbook and generic but I seen town do this as well.and it's rvs so the wagon isn't that appealing to me. That being said I liked profii's initial vote on the wagon. I don't think I need to go to indepth with the town read since I think it's the common opinion.


Emperor flippyNips is kinda jumpy but It's not really that scummy.


Luca blight I find interesting. They are currently voting Skellen for being generic responses that seem polished ect. But their post 94 is pretty generic as well as it's just stating the obvious.

What I find interesting is they said they found everything skellen said the same thought they had. If you found what they said agreeable and mirroring your own. Wouldn't you be a bit conflicted if they are town or not. They were like oh yeah I had the same feeling as you profii. It's early rvs so I'm more forgiving of being hollow but it seems like they are trying to portray image of having independent thought with out throwing something out that breaks the mold or makes them stand out.


It's funny how placed in juxtaposition to each other both come off as generic actions but one null and the other comes off as scummy to me.

VOTE: Luca Blight

I don't really like the speculating over a PR here, that sort of thing never sits well with me especially this early on. No idea what you're talking about with regards to the 'slayers gambit'.

Coasting along with the 'popular opinion' also doesn't sit well with me.

You said it yourself, we're barely out of RVS - why would I be feeling conflicted at this stage? There isn't nearly enough information to base a strong SR on, it was just a feeling I had. Most of my scum pings around the RVS stage come from posts that seem a little too polished and precise, and even though I couldn't disagree with what Skellen wrote during her opening, that feeling did pass over me.

Oh ho your tone is very defensive with that passive aggression.


So do you think bring up a scenario were a slot may be a pr role makes me scum? What purpose do you think I have doing it?



I said I don't have to explain why, not I'm going to go with popular opinion because I don't have my own on profii, it just happens to align. I almost did list what I liked in my original post through but I changed my mind and left it out on purpose to see how people would react.

Can I ask if you thought your post through or was it a initial reaction to me scum reading you becuase I don't think you seen the implications? If I was just coasting along with the popular opinions would I disagree with profii on skellen and vote you instead?

P:EDIT Accidentally posted a preview somehow.

[Garmr]

Just googled Slayer's gambit; it's when you intentionally act scummy as a VT.

What I'm wondering is why Garmr has said all of this stuff and not kept it to himself to see how it develops (which would seem the natural thing to do if he were Town). It feels like he's saying these things to give the impression he is deliberating over Kraeg's alignment, but it reads false to me.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Garmr

Here comes the OMGUS. Why wouldn't I say it out loud? I can get feedback from other players and it helps me read them as well. This seems like a weak excuse to vote me because I voted you.

[Garmr]

So my tone is 'very defensive' due to 'passive-aggression'? That seems a bit reachy/contradictory.



In of itself, no, but could scum bring up a role that may be a pr? I think it's more likely coming from scum that Town, especially this early on. As I said, as a townie it would be more natural to keep such thoughts to yourself and see how they develop. If you were scum and they therefore weren't genuine thoughts, then it would make more sense to highlight them to make it seem as though you are doing some in-depth thinking, especially considering all your other reads are pretty surface-level.

I could use the same argument; why would I, as scum, knowingly flip on my Skellen read, thus inviting unnecessary pressure?

You can be passive aggressive as a defensive reaction. The two don't contradict each other.....

Also it's kinda weak you threw back something I said about you I'm not being passive aggressive I'm directly confronting you, do you think me stating the fact you are omgusing is avoiding confrontation?

Sigh this dumb Your saying I'm trying to look like I'm doing some deep thinking instead of hunting, but I'm scum for going with popular opinion and not stating why I town read Profii in my post. Wouldn't that conflict with my earlier goal. Also I don't think my case on you was surface level or the discussion of similarities/differences between you and skellen at the time.

What most of your case is doing is picking one point making up a scum motive for it and painting a label for me with it. But the labels contradict if you actually have some common sense.

OMGUS? Now who's being passive-aggressive?

I wouldn't have thought, if you were Town, that you would say it out loud for a few reasons:

1) Speculating on someone who might be a PR this early on is just bad 'town' play, that's common sense
2) If he is indeed playing the slayer's gambit, then you've just impeded it
3) There isn't enough data to give any credence to any one of your 3 'scenarios', so inviting others' to give their opinion on the matter would bring back limited results, and you've basically ended your own line of internal inquiry.

1)You say it's bad town play it's also bad scum play to announce it as it gets you flack. There is a town use for talking about potential power roles but it's dirty and I don't mind playing a little dirty.
2)If he is playing a slayers gambit his setting up a mislynch on himself since those catch town as well. I'd rather lynch scum day 1.
3)People can disagree or add their own. Also it's not ended as we are discussing it now.

[Garmr]

See I'm siding with Luca here

When you said popular opinion is profii = town I actually checked and 3 people had put me, let's say, the town side of the line... one of those 3 was Luca, who you (garmr) scum read at the time so at that point alarm bells were ringing that you actually just knew I was town (I.e. TMI) and rolled with it

That's why I was asking about how well you think you can read me

The only thing stopping me voting you right now is you say you omitted the reasons you think I'm town (tell me about them please) for a reaction test (tell me what you learnt please)

I dont like the PR stuff either but the less said the better

Lucas just town as far as I'm concerned we see the game very similarly so I'm gonna roll with that

If you want to vote me go for it no need to hold back. I'm fine with making luca and me the leading wagons. But if I end up mislynched somehow Sheep my opinions as they are better than yours if you town read Luca.

[Garmr]

BTW this isn't my first time Talking about power role speculation this game is the most blatant example I can remember. I did it latter in the day through.

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=76913&hilit=+doctor

Town game where I brought up someone being a power role.

If you can think of the reasoning why I brought it up that game you can vaguely guess why I brought it up here.

[Garmr]

See I'm siding with Luca here

When you said popular opinion is profii = town I actually checked and 3 people had put me, let's say, the town side of the line... one of those 3 was Luca, who you (garmr) scum read at the time so at that point alarm bells were ringing that you actually just knew I was town (I.e. TMI) and rolled with it

That's why I was asking about how well you think you can read me

The only thing stopping me voting you right now is you say you omitted the reasons you think I'm town (tell me about them please) for a reaction test (tell me what you learnt please)

I dont like the PR stuff either but the less said the better

Lucas just town as far as I'm concerned we see the game very similarly so I'm gonna roll with that

If you want to vote me go for it no need to hold back. I'm fine with making luca and me the leading wagons. But if I end up mislynched somehow Sheep my opinions as they are better than yours if you town read Luca.

This is a very odd thing to say 6 pages into the game. Are you really so confident I'm scum that you're willing to 1v1 me to the death already?

Yep your reaction to me voting you was really telling. You were reaching for reasons to scum read me and they didn't come off as natural reasons. It's like you were trying to justify your scum read on me instead of actually reading me.

[Garmr]

So my tone is 'very defensive' due to 'passive-aggression'? That seems a bit reachy/contradictory.



In of itself, no, but could scum bring up a role that may be a pr? I think it's more likely coming from scum that Town, especially this early on. As I said, as a townie it would be more natural to keep such thoughts to yourself and see how they develop. If you were scum and they therefore weren't genuine thoughts, then it would make more sense to highlight them to make it seem as though you are doing some in-depth thinking, especially considering all your other reads are pretty surface-level.

I could use the same argument; why would I, as scum, knowingly flip on my Skellen read, thus inviting unnecessary pressure?

You can be passive aggressive as a defensive reaction. The two don't contradict each other.....

Also it's kinda weak you threw back something I said about you I'm not being passive aggressive I'm directly confronting you, do you think me stating the fact you are omgusing is avoiding confrontation?

Sigh this dumb Your saying I'm trying to look like I'm doing some deep thinking instead of hunting, but I'm scum for going with popular opinion and not stating why I town read Profii in my post. Wouldn't that conflict with my earlier goal. Also I don't think my case on you was surface level or the discussion of similarities/differences between you and skellen at the time.

What most of your case is doing is picking one point making up a scum motive for it and painting a label for me with it. But the labels contradict if you actually have some common sense.

A defensive 'tone' implies more direct aggression rather than passive-aggression. The fact you're trying to paint my response as defensive in the first place just seems sketchy - it's an easy response to anyone who questions your SR of them, and it doesn't really apply in this case, but the way you say it's 'passive-aggressive' is like you're setting up a situation where no matter what I do it could be spun as being 'defensive'.

It was not a 'fact' that I was OMGUSING; it is a big reach for you to even suggest it, and the fact you're trying to push that argument seems defensive in itself.

As for your 'dumb' line, you've completely missed the point. You have surace-level reads and one that appears more 'in-depth' - that was the point I was making. I wasn't suggesting you were only trying to make in-depth reads. I think your read on me was pretty surface level, to be honest; you didn't consider what benefit I would have as scum of flipping my view on Skellen like that.

OMGUS? Now who's being passive-aggressive?

I wouldn't have thought, if you were Town, that you would say it out loud for a few reasons:

1) Speculating on someone who might be a PR this early on is just bad 'town' play, that's common sense
2) If he is indeed playing the slayer's gambit, then you've just impeded it
3) There isn't enough data to give any credence to any one of your 3 'scenarios', so inviting others' to give their opinion on the matter would bring back limited results, and you've basically ended your own line of internal inquiry.

1)You say it's bad town play it's also bad scum play to announce it as it gets you flack. There is a town use for talking about potential power roles but it's dirty and I don't mind playing a little dirty.
2)If he is playing a slayers gambit his setting up a mislynch on himself since those catch town as well. I'd rather lynch scum day 1.
3)People can disagree or add their own. Also it's not ended as we are discussing it now.

1) Yes I would agree it's bad play as either alignment, but it feels weirder coming from town
2) it's way too early to say he was setting up his own mislynch, which leads me back to my original point; the benefit of keeping such info close to your chest, if it's actually genuine
3) It's ended in terms of a natural progression of how Kraeg would have continued, and how people would have reacted to him

A defensive tone can be used to avoid certain conflict. What's sketchy is you are trying to use my arguments and apply them to me when they don't work in that context. I brought up painting me in a image and you warp the argument and throw it back at me. You have done this mutiple times now

First the passive aggressive thing, then the surface level posts (which you dropped when I showed it wasn't) and now this no your the defensive one. Your basically playing a more advanced versions of "I know you are but what am I."

The fact you pushed me in that manner after I placed my vote on you and not before when you were doing your catch up shows my vote on you caused this defensive reaction.

Disagree if I was trying to portray a more in depth image I would of done it with every read which I didn't. Honestly you say my reads are only surface level but that's a label you placed on it to avoid them as I can point to my read on you do you think my case on you is surface level and if it is how so? Also by being aggressive and using the label surface you deflect from the accusation I made about your post 94 was incredibly surface level.

Do you also avoided my discussion about skellen and you do you think that is surface level.


so lets add these in

1.Reusing my points on me in attempt to subtly discredit them with out really addressing some of them.

2.Picking and choosing what you want out of my case. It loses context in this manner. Like my reads are surface level but just using profii as a example with out explaining the others.

3.Your point on me is a difference on ideals and scum hunting behaviour involving the power role thing. It's basically saying it doesn't match how I would do it so he must be scum.

[Garmr]

UNVOTE: Billy

I feel like I have a better grip at reading him with having more insight on his reads and feel a bit better about him, although I feel a bit iffy about him not wanting to be on a "vanity wagon" on page 7 while Mohab hasn't even reacted to his questions yet. Guess that will remain as my most frustrating slot in my notes.

Regarding Garmr/Luca I need to look more closely at it when it's not late in the night, but my first impression after reading through it is that imo Garmr hit a nail with saying that Luca's reasons for scumreading him didn't felt natural. Although I am mostly thinking here of him feeling negative about Garmr's mention of PR stuff and the slayers gambit thing. To me it felt he judged Garmr for that as scum because it doesn't look natural from town yet he didn't really pointed out why that is a scum motivated play. It's imo just bad play, maybe anti-town might be the better term, as both also admitted to (more or less). I mean if it's scum!Garmr I don't see why he brings up arguments that would potentially put the Kraeg push to a halt instead of just keeping it to himself and joining pushing Kraeg. Can you clarify this, Luca? Second paragraph in #134 does seem to be the only thing that comes close to it, but it doesn't really feel comprehensible.

Oh don't worry, I still want those questions answered by Mohab, but clearly my vote wasn't doing anything there and I unvoted because I wanted to deep dive the Garmr/Luca interaction.

And if you're frustrated by my slot, you're not alone. I made 2 out of 4 LYLOs in my first 4 games. And it's probably because scum recognizes that I do weird things that can get scum read.

As for the Garmr/Luca interaction, I feel weird. I think Luca's initial reason for voting Garmr was weak, but I feel like the way the interaction played out made Luca look good and Garmr look bad. I also played a game (unsure of Luca's alignment in that game so not AI) where he did a 1v1 then backed off similarly on D1. Maybe he rolled scum in both games, but it also could be a playstyle thing.

I also realized that most of why I was townreading Garmr was his defense of a surface level scummy Kraeg. Now I think this is the only read of his that didn't feel surface level, and when I re-read it I realized he didn't commit to a read. In 98, he said he would set it to the side and come back to it. Then he did the 1 on 1 with Luca. I originally couldn't see scum motivation in coming out the gate defending Kraeg for surface level scummy play. But now I can think of 2 reasons, (I will give them later Skellen), but for now, I would like to hold them back a bit. I agree with Luca that most of Garmr's reads were surface level as I said, outside of Kraeg. I also think that Garmr got mad defensive when he was getting pressured by Luca and that was remarkably different from how he had reacted to Norwegian's early vote.

VOTE: Garmr

Can you describe what thoughts are surface level and why they are just so I know you aren't parroting Luca?

[Garmr]

Billy, you can’t talk about ongoing games. This is a really important thing to remember.

Traveling home atm so will respond to stuff in an hour or two

Can I ask a favour and don't answer the question for billy I want to sort him because I already figured out your scum.

[Garmr]

@Garmr - it's probably fair to say I parroted Luca there. I think your Kraeg comment showed you working through it. The Skellen read was surface mostly, but it was null so I guess that's not gonna be in depth. The Luca read wasn't surface, I think the logic was off, but it wasn't surface. So that's a fair defense from you, you brought up 4 reads (Kraeg, Skellen, Emperor, and Luca.). 2 were in depth and 2 were a bit more surface but the surface ones were nulls.

Ok so you do understand the ones surface ones were nulls there's a reason they are nulls.

So here's a question

Do you think it's fair to paint someone as only having surface level reads when only 2 of the reads that were

nulls

especially when they have at least 2 indepth reads around the start of the day 1 when were out of rvs

if yes why do you find it ok?

If no would you find the person painting them with that brush as scummy (for that point alone) and why would you echo it despite thinking this way?

[Garmr]

I messed up here, clearly, and it's why I admitted it in 160. I thought I had more reasons when I posted, but I read it back and I clearly didn't. I agree that there's a reason your surface reads would be nulls and you accurately grouped them.

I agree that that's not fair to paint someone as only having surface level reads in such a case. And would I find the person painting them in that light as scummy? I don't know. As for why I echoed it, I think it's probably because I was persuaded by him in 139 because I think you missed the point he was trying to make and he mentioned again that you had surface level reads. I think I got primed to see them that way. I definitely have this problem with people I town-read, and I need to fight it better, because I'm easily pocketable.

I think you misinterpreted his point but I don't think that makes you scum. I am interested in why you went after me and Luca so hard and left Mohab alone. I'm also now interested in Flippy, because he sheeped onto Luca pretty easily.

Oh I didn't leave Mohab behind just you post more informative with your posts so I thought you could provide more content to read. I deal with low info players differently after being stung by them multiple times. It's best to look at actions over a period and when they act.

I will be honest I predicted you to double down and I didn't expect you to stop and think about why your post and why you sheeped Luca. Which is why I changed my tone a bit because I wanted to see if you really reflected on your read or or not. You have. If that wasn't enough to town read you. I don't think scum would admit to getting caught up in the moment like you did either as they would want to justify there read instead of trying to figure out why someone is town.

[Garmr]

@Billy I was going to lead into this in a more natural way because I predicted you to do something different, but you surprised me in a good way so I'll ask your thoughts about this to try and

Catching-up....(striked the stuff that has been answered/is no longer relevant)

27 -

I'm struggling to follow why this is scummy?

31 -

Do you still find Profii scummy, or did his response cause you to reconsider?

35 -

Do you consider these to be AI questions? If you're 'not a fan' of Norwegianboy, why not place a vote on him yourself here?

Skellen's opening seems decent, and her thoughts in 41 mirror my own.

42 - This seems fair enough. Early town-lean on Norwegianboy.

46 - Decent thought-process from Billy, early town-lean here as well.

56 - I can relate to this. Posting a naked RVS vote as scum is actually quite a ballsy thing to do.

63, 64 - This is just BS, shading people based on V/LA's right at the start of the game and during a weekend. Billy has even been contributing despite his V/LA, and I had just announced I would catch up Tomorrow, which I am fulfilling now.

65, 66, 67 - This feels Townie.

I found this post hollow and some what text book response. Do you see the same thing as me or is there substance I missed somewhere?

[Garmr]

@Everyone not Luca


When I brought this up Luca's first response was to scum read me and push that I'm scum which seemed unnatural as his reasons were stretches.

-He painted me as having surface level reads. Which we can agree is completely unfair when you get into it.

-Luca's points on the slayer gambit/pr stuff are null, yet he consistently paints it as scummy. He also seems to understand this as he mentioned it being null then tried to shift it back it making me scummy. Skellen made a post about this and is quite logical +1 girl scout point for Skellen.

He honestly has no real case as to why I am scum when you think about it. His just painted a image of me to bash and he did a good job at that.

Also did Luca really have a problem with my posts revolving around kreag? Wouldn't that jump out at him first when he made a catch up if it was such a big deal. I don't believe he would of missed the kreag thing I would consider it one of this games first big events. He actually made a passing mention saying what the hell but didn't add his own input on kreag if he thought it came from town or scum. This tells me that he wasn't sorting slots and was just in it for appearances.



There's only scum read point I think is a good point through wrong and it's by profii . He thinks my read on him comes form a place of knowing and that me reading the flow comes from that. Where it really comes from Is my own views bias and predictions mixed together I have mentioned flow before and I try reading it a lot so I became adapt at it. It's not really something provable but I can see where profii comes from.

[Garmr]

- You're repeatedly missing the point. I never said all your reads are surface level, and having surface level reads isn't even a crime in itself early doors. My point was that it seemed you were compensating for that in the Kraeg 'deliberation', which seemed forced for the reasons I've already stated.

- I've not consistently painted anything as scummy, I made my point, which I stand by, and then have answered wave after wave of attacks from yourself about it.

-

I've never said I have a real case,

it was a starting point to a scumread. Just like my Skellen vote wasn't massively meaningful - it was a starting point, very much subject to later behavior.

- The first time I saw it I didn't even know what you were talking about with regards to the Slayer's gambit. Everything that pinged me came about after my original catch-up post.

I'm not getting into this 1v1 with you. If you are Town then take a deep breath, calm down and drop this so others can't just coast off the back of it. If you're scum then continue digging yourself a hole, because it won't end well for you.

-the reason you get waves is because your answer doesn't satisfy me.

-You don't have a real case yet you voted me. Can you see how I view that as a scum reaction to me pushing you.

-So you didn't know what I was talking about and only went to look deeper in it when you wanted to vote me and not when you found it?

If you are Town then take a deep breath, calm down and drop this so others can't just coast off the back of it. If you're scum then continue digging yourself a hole, because it won't end well for you.

I like jokes lol. Me pushing you is forcing people to take have opinions and take sides. The more events like kreag, you vs I ect the better.

Also what's the worst that can happen? I get mislynched whoa big deal lol . Scum will have to react to it and there's guaranteed to be one scum on my wagon since my actions are pretty decisive and I generate a lot of information purpose.. If you get lynched, I lynched scum and that's a win for me.

Our interactions helped me get a read on billy when he responded. Besides if I pace it right I can constantly gnaw at you and other events can happen that I get reads of as well off people reactions.

The way you are trying to pull away from the spot light seems odd. It's only been 2 pages. 5-6 pages I'd understand but 2?

[Garmr]

Since when do I need a 'real case' to vote someone early in the game?

I'm pulling away from it because I've had many situations like this in the past and rarely does something good come from repeatedly attacking each other with wall posts.

I can see your reaction from both perspectives. I used to play in a similar way as Town where I'd 1v1 someone for the hell of it, mainly out of ego rather than actually believing the other person was definitely scum (I don't believe your confidence in your SR on me, regardless of your alignment). I could also see you being angry scum getting frustrated at feeling 'unfairly' scumread and getting ready for war. I've been in both of these positions myself.

As I said, you can continue doing whatever you want,

but I'm taking a step back because I want to get a read on everyone,

not just you

Why can't you get a read on people while being in the lime light? It's only 2 pages through it's not like we been going at it for ages so I don't get why your so eager to back off?

Since when do I need a 'real case' to vote someone early in the game?

So in response to me voting you you provided a vote not backed by a real case but continue to defend the reasoning despite you acknowledging it's not good.

So if all your points before your vote on me were empty and your case wasn't "real" What have you been doing this game!

[Garmr]

1. It's not about being or not being in the limelight, I just think this conversation continuing for too long is harmful for the general gameplay, especially as we're essentially going in circles. As I said, been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

2. I've acknowledged I don't have firm evidence for you being scum, but I maintain the points I made were valid.

3. That's a loaded, misrepping question...Extra scum points to you, congratulations.

1.Disagree>

2. Nah they already been debunked. But if you go back it will look bad for you in your mind.

3. No it's not a Misrep it's your own words and actual events. Flail harder.

[Garmr]

I think you guys will just have to learn to deal with the way i am. Most of my posts are reactive and i usually only point out things that stick out to me. I read everything people say here but i can't be bothered to add my comments to absolutely everything. If you guys think that's scummy then by all means lynch me. If i get mislynched as town in like 5 games maybe people will begin to understand that this is just my personality and it is usually not alignment indicative.

I want you to think about this post. You're basically recognizing that you're playing in a way that the group perceives as bad because you keep getting lynched. Yet your response to that is for the group to change it's perception of you. Why should we? If you keep playing badly, you're either scum or bad town. Why would we want you in LYLO? You're a potential liability there. So if you keep playing badly, the solution from a town perspective is to policy lynch you. That means we Lynch you D1. And we do that because we know it's bad to have you in late game situations. So while you think the site will just have to adjust to you, you may not like the way it adjusts to you. Please stop playing so reactively and start reading. I saw your reads list, care to develop that at all?

I'm not good at analyzing dense posts and creating essays that address each and every point. I'm just gonna say that right now. I still don't think i'm a bad player, so getting policy lynched on day 1 because my playstyle is "different" from the "accepted townie standard" just feels like elitist BS.
I can elaborate on any points you want, just tell me which reads you want me to further elaborate upon and i'll do it.

I have to agree with Norwegian boy here. My style of play is pretty different I tend to get town read then ignored. My reads last game were 100% on the mark yet I got ignored even through the logic was right. It's just people didn't understand it and thought it was bad. It wasn't even caught scum for the wrong reasons as their reasoning for moves like the night kill were the exact ones I said and the motivation as well. I told town they were hunting for protective roles and I was told we don't have enough information to think that, when we did if they were smart enough to pay attention and listen to me.

The group mentality with game play in mafia scum is toxic. People have unique ways of hunting and just because people don't understand it doesn't mean they are wrong. Forcing everyone to play the same neuters the game as well and can take away some those unique traits that people have.

I get some adjustments should be made but it's more a give and take thing instead of some borg assimilation shit.

[Garmr]

Tldr versions of my reads at the moment.

Pretty much Ordered.

Town

-Billy Pilgram
This is my biggest town read. I can see how his brain ticks, he gets caught up in Luca's post and the flow of it and sheeps. But then he self reflects on it adjusts and comes out with something logical. That's would be some high level scum play and it comes more natural from town.

Skellen- this was hard to order with my next read but I put it here first. The skellen posts have been logical and in the beginning textbook. But the conclusions they get and the way they hold them selves seem townie and 152 is literally spitting townie at me. Also I think the wagon on them seemed a bit suss and at least one scum on it.

NorwegianboyEE - It's hard to describe in words it's a lot of their personality. Also them standing up to profii about their beliefs made me town read them even more.

Null- town leaning

Mohab- This is pretty much all gut

-Profii I was originally really keen on this slot being town. Even through I disagreed with their skellen vote I thought it was a good ice breaker. Then they made a good but wrong point about me being scum and I'm like ok they are going to vote me. That didn't happen which puzzled me so I didn't give in to their demands to see if they would vote me. They continued pushing me from the side while keeping their vote off me. I was wondering when they would vote me because at certain points I only had 1 or 2 votes on me. Then they voted NorwegianboyEE and it was for the shit reasoning when they could of gone on me. But I don't think they are scum with Luca Blight.


Null-
Emperor FlippyNips-Null for reasons only post I didn't like was the oh I'm drunk. It read a little jumpy and defensive but nothing to really scum read.

null-scum
Kraeg-Literally god awful the vote on me was trash his actions were so bad but lacked scum motivation. But they lacked town motivation either now I think about it. Might just be a noob scum since they never had a scum game before.

Scum-
Luca blight- do I need to explain after my 1v1.


Would of posted this earlier but my net is playing up again. So if it shuts down I'll have to do phone posts.

[Garmr]

However I wonder if Garmr and Luca already ever have played a game together before?

First game together unless Luca was on a alt I don't know.

[Garmr]

What happened to Garmr?

Here's where I'm at. We're in a pretty low activity game state. This works real well for scum because it breeds apathy. It also doesn't help town sort much. I'm kinda lost. Kraeg came in hyper aggro. I don't read that as scummy but others were. I think what I found a lack of effort on reads from that slot was a problem.

@Norwegian - why is Kraeg scum. Is it just that he accused you of taking us out of RVS? And if that's why, why is that enough?

I don't have a strong candidate at the moment, but I think Mohab is my preference. Sheeped the Kraeg wagon. Then hopped onto Garmr saying it felt like caught scum. Then just left and went back to Kraeg. I feel like that's the worst vote all game so far so thats where I wanna be.

VOTE: Mohab

This post makes me feel like Billy is even more town. I disagree with his opinion on kreag but it's not what scum buddies do for each other and if billy was scum and kreag town he wouldn't want to diffuse the kreag wagon this way.

[Garmr]

I find it weird people are trying to link other kreag as scum before the flip. I intend to hammer but I'm waiting for a bit more Emperor posts and a roleclaim.

[Garmr]

I find it weird people are trying to link other kreag as scum before the flip. I intend to hammer but I'm waiting for a bit more Emperor posts and a roleclaim.

What made you down with killing Kraeg? Did your read change and I missed it?

Tldr versions of my reads at the moment.

Pretty much Ordered.

Town

-Billy Pilgram
This is my biggest town read. I can see how his brain ticks, he gets caught up in Luca's post and the flow of it and sheeps. But then he self reflects on it adjusts and comes out with something logical. That's would be some high level scum play and it comes more natural from town.

Skellen- this was hard to order with my next read but I put it here first. The skellen posts have been logical and in the beginning textbook. But the conclusions they get and the way they hold them selves seem townie and 152 is literally spitting townie at me. Also I think the wagon on them seemed a bit suss and at least one scum on it.

NorwegianboyEE - It's hard to describe in words it's a lot of their personality. Also them standing up to profii about their beliefs made me town read them even more.

Null- town leaning

Mohab- This is pretty much all gut

-Profii I was originally really keen on this slot being town. Even through I disagreed with their skellen vote I thought it was a good ice breaker. Then they made a good but wrong point about me being scum and I'm like ok they are going to vote me. That didn't happen which puzzled me so I didn't give in to their demands to see if they would vote me. They continued pushing me from the side while keeping their vote off me. I was wondering when they would vote me because at certain points I only had 1 or 2 votes on me. Then they voted NorwegianboyEE and it was for the shit reasoning when they could of gone on me. But I don't think they are scum with Luca Blight.


Null-
Emperor FlippyNips-Null for reasons only post I didn't like was the oh I'm drunk. It read a little jumpy and defensive but nothing to really scum read.

null-scum
Kraeg-Literally god awful the vote on me was trash his actions were so bad but lacked scum motivation. But they lacked town motivation either now I think about it. Might just be a noob scum since they never had a scum game before.

Scum-
Luca blight- do I need to explain after my 1v1.

The vote on me was opportunistic It was when I was a viable wagon and the mood look like I could be mislynched. His points were pretty bad and already discussed. Also the atmosphere around him makes me read scum becuase of the way people are treating him. It's like everyone's certain he will flip scum and they are prepping for it. Kreag also has no emotions to this if I was being mislynched I would try to at least pass on something and I'd be pissed at town.


Also kreag doesn't display any town reads if they are trying to actually solve the game you'd think they'd actually have at least one town or display some sort of working out.

[Garmr]

VOTE: Kreag

Actually might as well do it now since I reread emperor.

I like his 281 as it spring boards off my post and feels like his trying to start up a discussion with me. Post 89 did make me suspicious but over all I feel like if his scum it will come out anyway. Lol it will probably

k

ill me if his scum.

So I'll put him as null town now.

[Garmr]

VOTE COUNT 1.8

Mohab500 (1) - Billy Pilgrim
Skellen (0) -
Luca Blight (0) -
Garmr (0) -
Emperor FlippyNips (0) -
profii (0) -
NorwegianboyEE (1) - Kraeg

L-1

Kraeg (4) - NorwegianboyEE, Mohab500, Skellen, Garmr
Billy Pilgrim (0) -

Not Voting: Luca Blight, Emperor FlippyNips, profii

ACTIVITY NOTES:
Luca Blight is V/LA through Monday, Sept 9

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is Friday, September 13th at 10:00 am PDT which is in

(expired on 2019-09-13 10:00:00)

Thanks for the vote count so fast was hoping to see some reactions thinking I hammered.

[Garmr]

He should at least have told us if he's busy in RL or what. At least we would know whether he's serious or just stalling.

Probs just stalling.

[Garmr]

I am not sure if I missed something regarding this question; I am sticking these two together because they're my current scumreads. I think it's unlikely they're both scum together. I am just pointing out my thoughts on them for everybody to see.

Yeah nevermind, I forgot how to English and misread your sentence. It makes sense how you originally said it.

Ok, so I get that you thought Garmr was the scummier one in the 1v1 because his tone sounded like coming from caught scum. I would appreciate if you could explain what specific parts suggest so. Also since you think it's either TvT or TvS (with scum!Garmr) I assume you are townreading Luca? (or are you just saying "town" because he is just not scummy to you?) Anyway what I mean is what makes Luca townier to you?

I'll try to go more indepth with why I felt Garmer was scummier later.

As for TvT and TvS thing, I just meant the conversation didn't seem like it was from 2 people who were teammates or so. It could very well be scum Luca and town Garmr.

I didn't necessarily see anything super positive about luca (tone is a bit nice but aside from that, nothing specific), but I don't see anything scummy about him either from that exchange. Garmr gave me a different vibe however.

How about you do it now?

[Garmr]

Ok, that means I'll roleclaim

Why didn't you in that post. You keep putting it off?

[Garmr]

I'm the

Town Roleblocker

.

I don't want this slot to die so I guess I really have to do this. I'm hoping that there's a doctor who will protect me at night. If ever I do get killed tonight, the wagon on me says a lot about who's scum here. I'm confident that the scum team is on my wagon and I will be roleblocking one of them tonight.

Ugh, I hate this claim.

Can you please explain why you were playing so strangely like all of D1? You came in guns blazing almost trying to draw attention to yourself. What's the point of that playstyle with your role?

Also, Garmr, is this the type of role you had in mind?

Sounds like a scum role. It doesn't make me want to unvote him.

[Garmr]

To an extent I agree with the arguments Luca pulls up against Garmr, such as the stuff about speculating over PR for example. But mainly; It is true that both Luca and Garmr inherit somewhat defensive tones during their exchange, but I find Luca's tone more natural compared to Garmr's; thoughts seem more precise and simple, while Garmr's thoughts seem far reached and more like they're looking for stuff from the game or their posts to clear their name. I usually dislike that kind of approach because I feel that very often, town has more straight forward motivations so Garmr just kind of ends up on my wrong side.

No offence but this is pretty bs. None of my thoughts were far reached and they were pretty all grounded. I thought you would have a actual reason to scum read me. You cna be null scum with kreag,

[Garmr]

No offence but all the unvotes on kreag seems like a noob thing to do. Like his probably claimed his real role but his scum which is why he took so long to actually claim because he was deciding to claim his real role or not. Town kreag would of claimed straight away.

[Garmr]

Lol here we are again with people trying to link kreag as scum with others.

I had a gut feeling mohab might be town when they pushed on me because the timing wouldn't be good for scum before but they overplayed it.

To an extent I agree with the arguments Luca pulls up against Garmr, such as the stuff about speculating over PR for example. But mainly; It is true that both Luca and Garmr inherit somewhat defensive tones during their exchange, but I find Luca's tone more natural compared to Garmr's; thoughts seem more precise and simple, while Garmr's thoughts seem far reached and more like they're looking for stuff from the game or their posts to clear their name. I usually dislike that kind of approach because I feel that very often, town has more straight forward motivations so Garmr just kind of ends up on my wrong side.

Think everyones established that speculating power roles would be null for me. Because there's no scum motivation in there and as others pointed out Luca was incapable of thinking up a scum motivation when I was in my scenario. So this just seems to me your trying to sheep someone else's logic with out thinking about it. Town would of pondered about it unless it was insti decision but you had time to reflect and read the discussions about it.

I'm calling you out on the far reached thing as well. None of my points were actually reaching. Luca opening being as empty as skellens check, His reponse to that was to make a case against me and act aggressive check, Accused me of surface level play which can easily be debated wrong thus painting a image of me that didn't exist check.

Fuck I even through in the trying to clear his name because he was re using my points in scenarios that didn't make sense. Can you link examples of posts of were I'm trying to clear my name or are you throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks.

Finally why would I be trying to clear my name? I started the engagement with Luca I was pretty much being mass town read outloud in the thread at that point.

[Garmr]

Question does Kreag and mohab seem like cheap scum theatre?

[Garmr]

sigh another game with legit bad town desicions this is demotivating

[Garmr]

I didn't want to counter claim but I guess I have to since your all dumb as bricks I'm town jail keeper.

[Garmr]

You'll need to announce who you're jailkeeping Gramr.

I thought mohab was the best target.

[Garmr]

Will jail Mohan.

[Garmr]

UNVOTE: Kreag

The reactions are strange this is strange. I want to think this through.

Kreag accepts me as a jailkeeper instead of pushing against my counter claim. He should be totally against me.

Mohab want both of us lynched saying we are scum together.

Billy is trying to justify both me and kreag as town.


I thought town was going to let lying scum off the hook so I lied about my role to push the lynch through but instead this weird shit is happening.

I don't mind taking the lynch today because It's my bad I shouldn't lie but I probably will in the future game because 50% of the time it works all the time.

Scenario one
Kreag is town
Mohab see's we are both town and wants to push through two mislynches because we counter claimed each other.

Scenario 2
Mohab is town
Kreag is scum and that's why he is so accepting of my role but Mohab thinks we are a scum team and I'm bussing him with a fake claim because his role pm.

[Garmr]

Mohab and Kreag can not be a scum team.

[Garmr]

Kreag accepts me as a jailkeeper instead of pushing against my counter claim.

He should be totally against me.

As for this point - I can see why he, as Town RB, would consider that you were telling the truth about your own claim - because it makes no sense for scum to claim there. Once Kraeg is lynched and flips Town, your lynch would follow Tomorrow.

Not that I fully believe Kraeg. I don't know what to think after all this BS.

I'm starting to see kreag as town as well. I feel like the way he process's the game is different than me.

[Garmr]

Jesus, why does town think it's a good idea to fake claim on this site? Fake-softing is one thing to draw the NK, but fake cc'ing. Wtf? I changed the way I was thinking about this game and now I'm gonna have to come back to it tomorrow, because of this bullshit. I hate these stupid gambits. I

hope you got something out of it, because I'm just pissed now.

Well we got mohab strange reaction I think I got quite a bit out of it. The chaos I produce fucks with scum as much as town.

[Garmr]

I don't like Profii's latest posting. After looking through their content they seem like a viable partner with mohab.

VOTE: Mohab

. This is obviously a soft,

Or is it

<_<

>_>

<_<

Look, if you're confirmed tomorrow, as you suggest, great. If you're not and Garmr dies and we don't know for sure who he checked, then I'm coming for you. The one thing I can do well is strategy around mechanics, if you run this Gambit and we don't get a confirmed inno, then we blew our town pr for nothing.

Calm

Scum have a choice - kill garmr and his info or kill me and my inno status

If they believe me

We will deal with the rest tomorrow

This would only work if Kreag is scum but say Profii was scum with Mohab. It would allow his partner to get night kill and maybe get a pseudo town confirmation from new players who can't think.

[Garmr]

L-1 by the way.

[Garmr]

The though running through my mind is Garmr

He said with bold certainty that Luca was scum, I doubt it
He lied to try and get the lynch he wanted

So he is not playing a team game - is he doing it because he thinks he is the smartest guy in the room (hint garmr, answer seems to be no at this point)

Or is he trying to push a mislynch

So let's think on that

A Kraeg mislynch infers kraeg!town and garmr,!scum - doesn't necessarily mean garmr JK as scum lie

Kraeg does have a low content play style that is easy to call scummy so is a good push for scum but if he flips town we would instantly lynch garmr tomorrow so youd have to be confident that your pal is deep wolf and happy to fend off about 3 lynches

I dont think anyone fits that bill

So I dont think Garmr is scum actually so i retract my point that we lynch him tomorrow - I was just annoyed at this idiocy

So the other scenario is that Kraeg AND garmr are both town. I'll consider that later

I think I need to come back with fresh eyes as I'm totally unimpressed by Garmrs antics

As Billy pointed out you one can soft to attract a NK, which I've obviously attempted to save a JK but for absolutely no reason at all other than garmr thinks he knows it all

Mad right now

Seems kinda like a fake reason to be mad since your not a noob. People do worse shit on this site all the time get over it, it produced some decent reactions.

Honestly I don't think I'm the smartest guy in the room but I will gladly sell myself that way to push a gambit, if I actually thought I was the smartest guy I wouldn't of called it off due to stubbornness.

The pay off If kreag was scum I would of taken the bullet lynched scum and saved a potential power role. Also even now scum will find it hard to act appropriately in the chaos. A Chaos has caused many a scum to slip up because scum don't think like town, while it's easier for scum to adapt to a cookie cutter game, If a bombshell like this hits them they will find it harder and harder to mimic a natural town reaction.

You fail to understand me through and what I get out the game judging by your post. We are fundamentally different when it comes to mafia.

[Garmr]

The pay off If kreag was scum I would of taken the bullet lynched scum and saved a potential power role. Also even now scum will find it hard to act appropriately in the chaos. A Chaotic environment has caused many a scum to slip up. Scum don't think like town. While it's easier for scum to adapt to a cookie cutter game, If a bombshell like this hits them they will find it harder and harder to mimic a natural town reaction.

Fixed

[Garmr]

profii why is it when I think your scum you post something like that.

What do you think of billy outrage?

[Garmr]

eh i just voted billy

So you think billy being mad at me was genuine or not?

[Garmr]

UNVOTE: mohab

Just for a minute while I work out my next post

[Garmr]

I can create a scenario where billy is scum in my head as he seems to shift his opinions slots if they majority town or scum read (like me). But there's some things left unanswered and my gut is telling me his town.

Mohab seems more scummy to me

VOTE: Mohab

[Garmr]

I'm eager to see what Mohab flips. Scum or town.

[Garmr]

Luca; the information you get from Garmr's fake claim is that he's scum. That's all.

No offence but if you are town then you really need to reevaluate how you read people like me. I think at this point it's obvious I'm town. Ask for spoilers in the dead thread and see that I was town then bang your head against the wall so the message gets locked in there.

[Garmr]

I can only phone post :€

[Garmr]

VOTE COUNT 1.7

Mohab500 (1) - Billy Pilgrim
Skellen (0) -
Luca Blight (2) -

Garmr

, Emperor FlippyNips
Garmr (0) -
Emperor FlippyNips (0) -
profii (0) -
NorwegianboyEE (1) - Kraeg

L-1

Kraeg (4) -

NorwegianboyEE, Mohab500,

Skellen, profii
Billy Pilgrim (1) -

Not Voting: Luca Blight

ACTIVITY NOTES:
Luca Blight is V/LA through Monday, Sept 9
Skellen has been prodded.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is Friday, September 13th at 10:00 am PDT which is in

(expired on 2019-09-13 10:00:00)

VOTE COUNT 1.8

Mohab500

(1) - Billy Pilgrim
Skellen (0) -
Luca Blight (0) -
Garmr (0) -
Emperor FlippyNips (0) -
profii (0) -

NorwegianboyEE

(1) - Kraeg[/color]

L-1

Kraeg (4) -

NorwegianboyEE, Mohab500

, Skellen,

Garmr

Billy Pilgrim (0) -

Not Voting: Luca Blight, Emperor FlippyNips, profii

VOTE COUNT 1.13

L-1

Mohab500

(4) - Billy Pilgrim, Kraeg, Luca Blight,

Garmr

Skellen (0) -
Luca Blight (0) -
Garmr (0) -
Emperor FlippyNips (0) -
profii (0) -
NorwegianboyEE (0) -
Kraeg (2) -

Mohab5

NorwegianboyEE

Billy Pilgrim (0) - 00,

Not Voting: Emperor FlippyNips, Skellen, profii

ACTIVITY NOTES:
All is good!

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is Friday, September 13th at 10:00 am PDT which is in

(expired on 2019-09-13 10:00:00)

Hmm the first two are interesting. Me and profii are in the same position on two different vote counts but the situation is different.

Profii jumps off because of the roleclaim while I Jump on. I think skellen is town so from my pov the entire wagon on kreag is town. So profii should either be really suspicious of skellen or kreag since he seems to town read me. Becuase if kreag is town at the point Profii was on multiple people could of hammered and easily of used the excuse but Kreag roleclaim was scummy. Also while kreag himself acted like both roles could coexist so did Billy. While not what scum should do Kreag has been weird all game and I don't think we should treat him as standard.

There's atleast one scum on mohabs wagon. The candidates are kreag,Luca and billy. Kreags really starting to tick all the scum boxes on reflecting on how events played out.

VOTE: Kreag

Mod Edit: Fixed broken quote tags

[Garmr]

VOTE COUNT 1.7

Mohab500 (1) - Billy Pilgrim
Skellen (0) -
Luca Blight (2) -

Garmr

, Emperor FlippyNips
Garmr (0) -
Emperor FlippyNips (0) -
profii (0) -
NorwegianboyEE (1) - Kraeg

L-1

Kraeg (4) -

NorwegianboyEE, Mohab500,

Skellen, profii
Billy Pilgrim (1) -

Not Voting: Luca Blight

ACTIVITY NOTES:
Luca Blight is V/LA through Monday, Sept 9
Skellen has been prodded.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is Friday, September 13th at 10:00 am PDT which is in

(expired on 2019-09-13 10:00:00)

VOTE COUNT 1.8

Mohab500

(1) - Billy Pilgrim
Skellen (0) -
Luca Blight (0) -
Garmr (0) -
Emperor FlippyNips (0) -
profii (0) -

NorwegianboyEE

(1) - Kraeg[/color]

L-1

Kraeg (4) -

NorwegianboyEE, Mohab500

, Skellen,

Garmr

Billy Pilgrim (0) -

Not Voting: Luca Blight, Emperor FlippyNips, profii

VOTE COUNT 1.13

L-1

Mohab500

(4) - Billy Pilgrim, Kraeg, Luca Blight,

Garmr

Skellen (0) -
Luca Blight (0) -
Garmr (0) -
Emperor FlippyNips (0) -
profii (0) -
NorwegianboyEE (0) -
Kraeg (2) -

Mohab5

NorwegianboyEE

Billy Pilgrim (0) - 00,

Not Voting: Emperor FlippyNips, Skellen, profii

ACTIVITY NOTES:
All is good!

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is Friday, September 13th at 10:00 am PDT which is in

(expired on 2019-09-13 10:00:00)

Hmm the first two are interesting. Me and profii are in the same position on two different vote counts but the situation is different.

Profii jumps off because of the roleclaim while I Jump on. I think skellen is town so from my pov the entire wagon on kreag is town. So profii should either be really suspicious of skellen or kreag since he seems to town read me. Becuase if kreag is town at the point Profii was on multiple people could of hammered and easily of used the excuse but Kreag roleclaim was scummy. Also while kreag himself acted like both roles could coexist so did Billy. While not what scum should do Kreag has been weird all game and I don't think we should treat him as standard.

There's atleast one scum on mohabs wagon. The candidates are kreag, Luca and billy. Kreags really starting to tick all the scum boxes on reflecting on how events played out.

VOTE: Kreag

Why are you so confident there's one scum on Mohab's wagon?

Mod Edit: Fixed broken quote tags

You are saying both wagons are are all town and the entire scum teams is between swollen emperor numpty and profii.?

[Garmr]

wow the phone auto correct lol

[Garmr]

I don't think it's necessary for me to say who I targetted last night. It won't give us a conftown.

It wouldn't unless your scum.

[Garmr]

I don't think it's necessary for me to say who I targetted last night. It won't give us a conftown.

It wouldn't hurt unless your scum.

fixed

[Garmr]

I'm going to go for LAL today. I understand Garmr was trying to drive everyone to lynch me by lying as the JK. It's very unnecessary considering the fact that the reason for lynching me was weak. The whole wagon was hinged on a gut feeling. It's not like Garmr is a Cop who got a Guilty result on me for him to drive everyone that way. Besides, he was claiming JK.

So for me LAL

VOTE: Garmr

yeah this is pretty weak. What does scum me achieve with this? I think you are scum so I did that to force the lynch through. I wouldn't of called it off if not for the combined fact Mohan,you and Billy acted strange. Mohan just turned out to be trash.

Also you have no reason to have me in your scum list. You have oh he faked claimed "to get me lynched" which is trash and "he talked about power roles" which is null for me (even through it's antitown normally and not scum)

You have presented no real reason to scum read me.

So from log you are either scum or a trash player since all your scum reads are town yesterday and you didn't have a decent case for any of them.

[Garmr]

actually your reasoning for both the dead townies is omgus and no other reason. It's ok to scum read someone who voted you if you think their reasoning is scummy. You don't do that you just say people voting you are scum that's be.

[Garmr]

bs *

[Garmr]

Hard claiming mason

I said I became an IC tomorrow because we had an idea it would come to this and I'm essentially verified by another player (I was careful not to say mod confirmed)

There are a couple of minor bread crumbs and I specifically never scum read luca if anyone wants to check

oh that's why you believed in Lucas case on me day 1 despite it being shit. I can buy that.

[Garmr]

Amusingly luca tried to copy my reads... it came across unnaturally and you picked up on it but I just had to support luca

this makes the game so much easier actually
UNVOTE: kreag
if no one claims a active role that would confirm kreag as town btw im vt.

[Garmr]

VOTE COUNT 1.7

Mohab500 (1) - Billy Pilgrim
Skellen (0) -
Luca Blight (2) -

Garmr

, Emperor FlippyNips
Garmr (0) -
Emperor FlippyNips (0) -
profii (0) -
NorwegianboyEE (1) - Kraeg

L-1

Kraeg (4) -

NorwegianboyEE, Mohab500,

Skellen, profii
Billy Pilgrim (1) -

Not Voting: Luca Blight

ACTIVITY NOTES:
Luca Blight is V/LA through Monday, Sept 9
Skellen has been prodded.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is Friday, September 13th at 10:00 am PDT which is in

(expired on 2019-09-13 10:00:00)

VOTE COUNT 1.8

Mohab500

(1) - Billy Pilgrim
Skellen (0) -
Luca Blight (0) -
Garmr (0) -
Emperor FlippyNips (0) -
profii (0) -

NorwegianboyEE

(1) - Kraeg[/color]

L-1

Kraeg (4) -

NorwegianboyEE, Mohab500

, Skellen,

Garmr

Billy Pilgrim (0) -

Not Voting: Luca Blight, Emperor FlippyNips, profii

VOTE COUNT 1.13

L-1

Mohab500

(4) - Billy Pilgrim, Kraeg, Luca Blight,

Garmr

Skellen (0) -
Luca Blight (0) -
Garmr (0) -
Emperor FlippyNips (0) -
profii (0) -
NorwegianboyEE (0) -
Kraeg (2) -

Mohab5

NorwegianboyEE

Billy Pilgrim (0) - 00,

Not Voting: Emperor FlippyNips, Skellen, profii

ACTIVITY NOTES:
All is good!

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is Friday, September 13th at 10:00 am PDT which is in

(expired on 2019-09-13 10:00:00)

Hmm the first two are interesting. Me and profii are in the same position on two different vote counts but the situation is different.

Profii jumps off because of the roleclaim while I Jump on. I think skellen is town so from my pov the entire wagon on kreag is town. So profii should either be really suspicious of skellen or kreag since he seems to town read me. Becuase if kreag is town at the point Profii was on multiple people could of hammered and easily of used the excuse but Kreag roleclaim was scummy. Also while kreag himself acted like both roles could coexist so did Billy. While not what scum should do Kreag has been weird all game and I don't think we should treat him as standard.

There's atleast one scum on mohabs wagon. The candidates are kreag, Luca and billy. Kreags really starting to tick all the scum boxes on reflecting on how events played out.

VOTE: Kreag

Why are you so confident there's one scum on Mohab's wagon?

Mod Edit: Fixed broken quote tags

You are saying both wagons are are all town and the entire scum teams is between swollen emperor numpty and profii.?

You just named a three person potential scum pool.

Why are you so confident that that's not a possibility? I'm not saying anything at this point. In my mind, Profii pinged me hard at the end of D1 when he cased me on a misrep. Now, I don't know if that was a mistake or genuine, but at the moment, it felt off. So I don't know for sure that scum was on that Mohab wagon, and that self-hammer makes that conclusion harder.

At the end of D1, you were my top town read because if you wanted to push me for a mis-lynch earlier you could have. And when I flipped town, everyone would have bought the case and they'd have looked at the folks that hopped on later. So the fact that you backed off and reapproached either means that you decided that pocketing me was better than mis-lynching me, in which case good move, because I'll probably need a guilty on you to flip, or you're town. I'm really hoping I'm right about town.

So why are you so confident the scum team isn't in your pool?

I said at least one scum not every scum.

We could rule out profii and skellen as a scum team because of profii early game intereaction.

Skellen and emperor could because of their friendly banter and they aren't working each other out and this is the only possible scum team I can see skellen being in. But Skellen by herself has been pretty town when looked by himself.

I didn't really have a reason why emperor and profii are scum togther nor one to disagree. Well that's before the mason claims.

Now with Luca being confirmed town with profii the scum team combinations look like this to me.


Emperor*Skellen
Emperor*Kreag
Emperor*Billy
Kreag* Billy


Those are the viable scum teams in my head right now.

[Garmr]

Been mulling over this

VOTE: Kreag

If kreag is scum then this is the best vote if kreag is town then his going to fuck up in mylo if we get there and mislynch me. His a liability to town no matter what alignment.

[Garmr]

yeah I think it's obvious I'm not on a scum team with kreag. Please dont go full mohab on us never go full Mohab.

[Garmr]

I am not sure what Billy shakeness means. I mean his trying to sell me now as kreag scum partner.

[Garmr]

I got a final thought well a way to make it easier. if your not a masons all you have to do is find one correct town read to win

[Garmr]

If Kraeg flips town, and someone claims a pr tomorrow, I am going to have a hard time believing it.

you keep saying this like you know it's going to happen...

Billy's making me paranoid a lot of his post seem like they are laying ground work for tomorrow. Like him Spreading seeds of doubt about me with no actual real reason to scum read me.

[Garmr]

VOTE: billy

going to post a case phone makes it hard

[Garmr]

well first off 70 and 71 kreag comes up with the most bs reason to scum read billy vlas. How does billy react he goes oh that could come from town.

73 says he likes my post defending kreag but as soon as it looks like I'm going to get a wagon 154 but when called out they backed off at first I thought they were town rethinking their position but it's also possible my initial thought was right that it was scum realising the wagon will flop and they were caught out out.


Then end of day 1 both kreag and billy were saying both roles could exist at the same time when I faked claimed. I think that was billys attempt at saving kreag day 1.


Day 2 Not much happened except billys freak out over me saying the hunt from the mohab wagon. If both him and kreag are a scum team if we hunted off it we would be guaranteed to hit scum as I wouldn't likely be a lynch and luca would be doable but harder then kreag. If they did try luca he would of had the mason claim to full back on.

Also would like to throw this out here

If Kraeg town= Mohab sus

If Kraeg scum= Billy sus.

Either a town victory or good information on who’s scum. Win-win.

who was the n1 nightkill again?

Strong townlean:
profii
Garmr

Light townlean:
Luca Blight
Skellen

Unsure:
Mohab500
Emperor FlippyNips

Scumlean:
Kraeg
Billy Pilgrim

[Garmr]

Okay well I 100% trust the mason claim. Thanks scum for giving us a confirmed townie

they were confirmed masons after the scum flip. Unless one was lying which I don't think Luca is the type.

[Garmr]

So just going to throw this out there. We know that a townie lied and said they were vanilla townie since scum have a roleblocker.

Billy also slipped having knowledge about it yesterday by saying No one would believe it if they came out today.

I think this is L-1. No lolhammers. Intent then we discuss.

Anyone holding back a PR?

If Kraeg flips town, and someone claims a pr tomorrow, I am going to have a hard time believing it.

Therefore billy is either the town power role or scum that has knowledge of it. I think it's the latter as these look like his fishing for a response not setting up his claim for latter.

I'm 100% vanilla townie and didn't lie about it. So I think the other role should claim.

[Garmr]

I feel like we should just lynch billy and end the game.

[Garmr]

I figured a surefire way for scum to win after yesterday. But I won't tell people after the game so scum doesn't do it this game.

[Garmr]

I figured a surefire way for scum to win after yesterday. But I won't tell people

till

after the game, so scum doesn't do it this game.

Fixed

[Garmr]

I see a lot of words from billy but nothing that actually sorts people.

I feel like we should just lynch billy and end the game.

I'm a mislynch, and your play today, in ignoring that you were the first one to defend Kraeg for surface level scummy behavior, while using it to create associatives with me, and pushing me hard makes me think youre the other scum here. But I don't want to get this wrong, because if I'm dead, which it looks like is probably going to happen, I don't want to send the rest of town in the wrong direction. So I'm going to re-read.

Yes, I liked your post trying to look past whether Kraeg was just surface level scummy. I had just seen it in that 2095 game that I was playing with Emperor, where tchill had done the same thing in reference to Emperor. And I knew it was from town, because I was scum. So when I saw you do that, it looked like you were reading for motivation rather than surface level pushes. Now I wonder if you were just protecting your teammate who did nothing but surface pushes all game.

But Skellen again not commenting on the fact that Kraeg shaded virtually everyone but her and Profii after I pointed it out makes me feel like I might be onto something there.

So just going to throw this out there. We know that a townie lied and said they were vanilla townie since scum have a roleblocker.

Billy also slipped having knowledge about it yesterday by saying No one would believe it if they came out today.

I think this is L-1. No lolhammers. Intent then we discuss.

Anyone holding back a PR?

If Kraeg flips town, and someone claims a pr tomorrow, I am going to have a hard time believing it.

Therefore billy is either the town power role or scum that has knowledge of it. I think it's the latter as these look like his fishing for a response not setting up his claim for latter.

I'm 100% vanilla townie and didn't lie about it. So I think the other role should claim.

I don't understand why you're trying to Lynch me so bad today, but this is just wrong, and I'm pretty sure we talked about it D2 so I don't know why you made the mistake. There is a newD3 setup (specifically A3) with a mafia roleblocker and 2 town masons as the exclusive PRs. Now, I no longer think a town pr is holding back. I was saying that yesterday because I wanted to confirm the masons. Once Kraeg flipped they were confirmed for me, because I couldn't one of them confirming the other unless they were both masons. Also, scum masons aren't normal. So Luca and Profii were both lock town once Kraeg flipped. So yes, I was fishing. We were already in mass claim and I made it clear I wanted to get a sense of the setup. And it was my analysis of the setup that had me cast the vote to hit scum Kraeg.

And I saw some late claims post mass claim in the only game I remember playing against Emperor.

Also, Emperor saying:

I think i need to go back over BIlly/skellen before i come to a decision. Cos I haven’t been able to read them all game & in most games I’ve played with them they are pretty obvi town to me.

is pretty odd, because he and I only played one game together, which I can finally talk about since it's over. In that game I passed two "tests," for which I got heavily read as town. Except I was scum.

So what are you talking about unless you were setting up to vote me?

This seems like his throwing mud up against the wall to see what will stick, he hasn't actually tried to eliminate someone from his lynch pool to figure out who scum is.

Finally his answer to my case doesn't actually nullify my case. He just portrays my initial action as scummy he doesn't address his change in behaviour. Say my initial behaviour was scummy(which I don't think it is) would that explain Billys reactions to it or make them less scummy? The answer should be a straight out no. This type of thrown together defence makes me think I hit the nail on the head.

His gone for everyone else today,His day 3 seems survivalist.

[Garmr]

If instead it's Garmr, then we have Garmr starting off with Luca, then CC'ing Kraeg and expressing intent, then hopping onto Kraeg after Profii unvoted, then he parks on Kraeg for a while before hopping over to Mohab, which put Mohab to L-1 before the self-hammer. Then Garmr is 3rd on the Kraeg wagon on D-2.

I'm killing Profii or Garmr (assuming he's town) N1.

Like to call bs on this I was actually first on kreag day 2 I unvoted and revoted because I thought we could sort him due to his role. Then I realised if he was town and in a mylo/lylo he would lose us the game so it was a win/win for me to lynch him.

Also I would of went through with the claim if not for mohab acting weird and you/kreag trying to justify both roles and you trying to rope me so I wouldn't block you.

Also you say you are killing me or profii but Norwegian has you 100% pinned down and at the time People were still lukewarm about profii (I was starting to lose faith in him tbh.) Also me potentially clashing with luca latter on would be a reason to keep me alive. Day 2 people tried to use Norwegian to frame me I think that may of been profii through then again in my eyes profii hasn't been on top of his game

I blame him

for the kreag wagon fizzling out day 1. So Nor makes sense as a kill for you.

Also my case wasn't built around nor You literally took one "Look at this it's plausible moment" and ignored my case on you again.

I think Garmr is sophisticated enough to have done the thing that on its surface looks less scummy, butnue had all night to assess who the better target was. H

e came out the gate voting me rather than waiting around to see where he could get a mis-lynch

. That fits with his CC of Kraeg but later unvoting him.

Yeah this applies to town me as well I had the whole night phase to go through the game and look for who I thought was scum since the masons were obviously going to get killed.

[Garmr]

Honestly there's no actual good reason to scum read me there they all seem reached. You could of easily just went POE and had a better case.

[Garmr]

In all those walls of text billy you failed to address the meat of my case. So can you?

[Garmr]

@garmr– what if billy is green, who you shooting for after?

Well I think Skellen is town. So you are the only one left poe. But I think billy is the scum here and will end the game.

[Garmr]

so im pretty sure killing billy is going to win us the game. if it doesn’t I think we lost.


Lylo will be Me Skellen & Garmr.

in this senario I think gar is going to be the last. but guns will be blazing right as the day starts & ultimately its going to be up to Skellen. & Skellen already said she’d rather kill me


kill me now Lylo is going to be

billy, gar & skellen. I really have no thoughts for on what to do for this one



pedit: Yaaay

Want to vote billy then and end it/ My case on him his pretty solid if I do say so myself.

[Garmr]

Looks like I'm getting lynched. I hope the other scum is Flippy, but his answer to my question, along with Skellen and the fact that Garmr didn't ever answer those questions makes me think it's Garmr. Also, Garmr's been shading me quite a bit today, saying I'm in survival mode, saying that I should have built my case from POE (which I did. I excluded Luca and Skellen off the bat then was deciding between him and Flippy. Luca's suspicion is correct, I'm gonna flip Green, and if scum isn't in Flippy then we lost.

Can someone hammer me? If I'm going down, no need to draw this out. I kinda wanna figure out who the last scum is, so I really hope Jackall will spoil it for me.

Why not hammer yourself and end the game I'm getting bored of this.

[Garmr]

I'm pretty confident in a skellen town read after going after there iso. Town seems to be dumb this game and keeps trying link me with kreag (looks at masons). Skellen has had every chance to jump on me and agree but she hasn't which which increases the odd they are town.


In the off chance scenario she is scum and she's buttered me up, then town deserves to lose for trying to link me to kreag when it's obvious I'm not his partner.

[Garmr]

congrats skellen you carried that game. I did get a off feeling once but I thought you deserved to win if you were scum. you did very well.

[Garmr]

Also why did Mohab and Billy act so weird with kreag? You guys are both the reason I didn't follow through.

[Garmr]

@profii You know I looked over skellen at the end of day 3 because I was unsure, I wasn't stuck in my own narrative unlike you. I think you destroyed town chances day 1 as mason by not insti lynching kreag with the information you were masons and then planting seeds of doubt about me from there on.

I wouldn't of had to fake claim if it wasn't for you going let's not lynch that claim.

[Garmr]

unlike you think i was. *

[Garmr]

yes i read the dead thread.

[Garmr]

Still with all that I think skellen would of won anyway even I did go through with it. Skellen just played to well.

[Garmr]

I wouldn't have posted it if I didnt mind you reading it

Let's just say skellen played great

agreed skellen did very well.