In post 1368, Menalque wrote:and i think that’s scummy because town normally have a clearer preference in who they want
Yeah, because town has so much information at the start of the game. Having to worry about potentially targeting town. This is just absolute crap and i can't believe you're spouting this like it's somehow logical.
It is in fact scum that play the game with a "clear preference of who they want" because they already know who their teammates are, so they are happy to keep pushing a town slot if they see it as a viable mislynch.
Scum are normally all good on lynching town
Good scum will normally have a game plan and want to lynch in a certain order to win, while adjusting based on flips, but will basically be down to vote anyone who isn’t a partner
What did you make of Norwegian's vote on Flavor early on in D1, then?
Well in this case i am referring to a game where Vorkuta posted a lot of "helpful" posts that seemed like they were made in good faith, but he was scum.
In post 171, Billy Pilgrim wrote:Then post 30, Gamma says your 30 reasoning seems valid, so all of a sudden, you do a 180 on your NAI reasoning say scum could make that excuse and vote Layla.
It was for pressure. I actually think Layla is looking more like town right now, that's why i switched to a objectively scummier looking slot which is Tea. I don't agree with Layla's reasoning for TR him, but i do think Layla's hesitation to vote makes her more town for it.
In post 1358, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Looking at the events of today i'm not sure i want Luca lynched anymore. Wake's slot is starting to look much worse in comparison.
This is pretty much where i am atm.
Town. (Do not want lynched):
- Tea
- Gamma Emerald
- Reundo
So we have Norway SRing and voting Layla initially because he says her RVS was overly explained. He then goes back and forth on her before voting her in #39. All of this is fairly non-AI, although I personally think the Layla explanation for her RVS was reasonable; I've been known to do the same thing.
The scum!indicative thing here is later on. He says in #173 that "Layla is looking more town right now". There's plenty of action in the game between #173 and #601, but there's no explanation for why Layla went from looking more town to being scummy again. In his top 3 SRs after Tea, in fact.
He then decides, out of nowhere, to vote her briefly before coming off that vote again shortly afterwards.
Then, Layla reps out. Norway has some interaction with hectic, but very little. Hectic comes up 6 times if you ctrl+f his name in Norway's ISO, and one of those posts is #931 suggesting that hectic is very scummy.
But then by the time of his readslist in #1358 hectic is back to "no strong stance" rather than being in the scummy pool.
This entire progression doesn't make sense based on how much hectic posted in the interim (or Layla for that matter) and especially doesn't make sense given Norway's expressed opinions on them.
In post 144, Flavor Leaf wrote:i have a weird gut feeling we hit scum in Tea for completely wrong reasons and now we’re in a holding pattern because scum’s awkward.
I don’t actually have a Tea read myself
Actually re-reading the game. This post is BIG yikes! Holy shit.
In post 144, Flavor Leaf wrote:i have a weird gut feeling we hit scum in Tea for completely wrong reasons and now we’re in a holding pattern because scum’s awkward.
I don’t actually have a Tea read myself
Actually re-reading the game. This post is BIG yikes! Holy shit.
Explain?
It's a bad post because Leaf is lightly shading Tea by claiming we "hit scum" and it's only the reasoning behind the wagon that's not good enough. Yet at the same time he claims he has no opinion on Tea at all. If so:
1: Why claim the wagon "hit scum" if he apparently doesn't have any opinion about Tea's alignment.
2: Why is he sure we "hit scum" in the first place. What sort of logic is he thinking here?
3: Does town have any reason to make this post? This seems like the sort of post scum makes to encourage a wagon on town, but not wanting to take any responsibility for the outcome.
In post 144, Flavor Leaf wrote:i have a weird gut feeling we hit scum in Tea for completely wrong reasons and now we’re in a holding pattern because scum’s awkward.
I don’t actually have a Tea read myself
^Nobody else has any opinion on this post?
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In post 291, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Tea has been playing kinda badly imo. But the speed at which he gained votes + how nobody really defends him much makes me also lean slightly town on him for now.
In which case both the top wagons right now are on town. Better find an alternative, which i've already done. Flavour Leaf is looking kinda scummy for reasons i already mentioned.
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In post 315, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I don't like Tea and i don't like how his vote is on either Vork or Luca Blight.
Flavour leaf you can be town in my eyes for now.
Okay, now let's look at Norways interactions around the FL slot. So we get the sudden FL vote, which is explained as coming from rereading the game in #175. We then have a number of posts on problems with FL and why his posting is scummy. NB: before this, Norway was voting for tea.
But then he COMPLETELY REVERSES HIS OPINION in #315 despite FL having NO INTERACTION with him in-between his initial FL vote and revoting tea with saying that "FL can be town for now". Like, he doesn't explain why his reasons for SRing FL became less valid, and also FL *unvotes his top scumspect immediately after Norway revotes tea*.
If one person you've been SRing or heavily suspicious of, which is what Norway's posts claim to show, then if they suddenly unvote your top scumspect the normal response would be to push them on that. Norway explicitly notices the unvote of his top wagon, but instead of pushing for more on why a slot he should be suspicious of unvoted, he makes a meaningless quip in #318 and completely ignores it.
The most important point is the one already made, but there's a couple of other things.
Firstly, the fact that norway feels the need to provide an explanation specifically and uniquely for FL in his #601 readslist. And secondly his just strange behaviour around FL after the chemist guilty, where goes from asking for more discussion to aggressively insisting the lynch happen as fast as possible. It's an odd tonal shift.
In post 274, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I’ve played 2 games with Chemist and he was scum in both of them. All he did was lurk. I don’t see anything town indicative from him. Why are you townreading him Tea?
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In post 508, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Oh, Chemist you're voting Luca already. Have my vote too. VOTE: Luca Blight
In post 543, splitfarvle wrote:Maybe, but he didn’t just list himself he has an explanation for why he listed himself. Of course he knows his own alignment. Everyone knows their own alignment, but dave feels the need to let us know his alignment without any pressure on him. It looks like he is overcompensating for rolling scum.
Scumlean
- Luca Blight
- Layla
- Zote the Mighty (For post 246)
Scum:
- Tea
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In post 667, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Maybe it’s just Chemist after all. Always lurking in the background. Probably laughing at us in the scum PT. That FIEND!
So here are the few posts on chemist that seem weird. It's kind of hard to tell with these because they're very jokey, and so I'm not convinced this is the most damning thing against norway but I think that taken in conjunction with the other scummier parts of his ISO they're still bad.
Basically we go from "I SR chemist already" in #88 which I'm willing to grant is probably a joke to #265 where chemist is apparently town. However, he then talks about how chem hasn't done anything to be TR in #274 which seems inconsistent with what he said just before, and which makes me think his chem read is fake. We see the same thing happen again later, when chem asks norway how norway reads him (chem), and he says that he's a "big null" in #511 then moving him up to his strong TL in #601.
Chemist made 4 posts within that time, you tell me if you think they're enough to reasonably see a move from null to top townlean. I think they pretty clearly aren't, which is further proof the read is faked.
Finally we have what is probably a joke, but I think also within Norway's range of a post that's made in such a jokey style that he can argue it either way in the future. Either that his reconsideration on chem was serious but presented so as to be funny, or that it was never meant to be taken as anything more than a joke.
In post 74, Tea wrote:Like... I'm pretty sure Norwegian is breathing a sigh of relief after seeing yall vote Layla.
Nice narrative you're trying to build there.
Perhaps i should do the same?
Tea is most definitely breathing a sigh of relief here at the possibility of turning the vote away from his scumpartner and shading a town slot instead.
In post 291, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Tea has been playing kinda badly imo. But the speed at which he gained votes + how nobody really defends him much makes me also lean slightly town on him for now.
In which case both the top wagons right now are on town. Better find an alternative, which i've already done. Flavour Leaf is looking kinda scummy for reasons i already mentioned.
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In post 306, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Tea's play here is really giving me bad vibes not gonna lie. It's just that i'm not sure if its scum indicative or not.
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In post 481, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Wake88 (5): Luca Blight, Dunnstral, davesaz, Zote the Mighty, PMysterious
Tea (3): Reundo, Gamma Emerald, NorwegianboyEE
NorwegianboyEE (3): splitfarvle, Billy Pilgrim, Tea
Vorkuta (2): Layla, Wake88
Luca Blight (1): Chemist1422
Gamma Emerald (1): Fish Monger
Dunnstral (1): Vorkuta
Not Voting (2): Almost50, Flavor Leaf
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Wake wagon: I don't fully understand this one because i'm not really seeing why Wake is scum. I don't have much more to say about it, nor do i get why it's got the most votes so far.
Tea wagon: It died down,
but Tea is still looking kinda scummy, and lately he's been inactive... avoiding questions... yada yada. As i'm standing i think this is my most preferred lynch so far.
Norwegianboy wagon: THIS WAGON SUCKS!
Vorkuta wagon: The main problem i have with Vorkuta right now is that he seems to be much more low-key than his scumplay in haunted village where he was very active and even said shit like "apathetic town loses games!" yeah brilliant Vork. I'm not sure if the difference here is that he has a more subdued townplay or he is trying a different scum tactic of just staying low and not being the center of attention.
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In post 498, NorwegianboyEE wrote:There’s too many people in this game for me to case perfectly. I’m fine with getting voted as long as long as it’ll ultimately help the town catch scum. But god that case Tea has on me is so horrendous. What you’re doing is look at my posts and apply them to your own already established narrative, but it’s simply wrong. I’m wondering if you’re a town grasping at straws here or whether it feels so artificial because you’re scum attempting to metanalyze.
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In post 589, NorwegianboyEE wrote:VOTE: tea
I’ll expand more on why Tea is scum later. Just want to get my vote out.
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In post 624, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I can do the same type of meta casing for Tea. Here's him in open 768 C9++ literally saying 2 days later from this game starting:
Him saying that he "literally rolls scum a lot of this year" could be taken as him suggesting that he rolled scum in this game too and expressing surprise at constantly rolling scum.
Of course this is all based on me figuring out his alt, but he's playing dirty by analyzing my meta game while using an alt so i don't even feel too bad.
In post 645, Billy Pilgrim wrote:To be clear, mena was I believe the more active half of the Beta Sapphire hydra in Haunted Village. That game was awash in hydras.
Yep. He was a hydra and i know my bad playing as a vig made an impression on him since he noted how badly i played as vig when i played with him on nomination mafia. So this sort of analysiz he posted in this game can only come from him. In which case i have good reason to believe he is intentionally manipulating his case to make me seem more scummy than i really am. Ergo he has very high scum equity from my POV and is basically conf!scum at this point.
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In post 662, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Oh ok. That’s believeable. I forgot to take the moderator of nomination mafia into account. You did indeed play in HV if i remember correctly.
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In post 665, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Knowing your true identity i don’t overly scumread you anymore. UNVOTE:
Okay, I'm starting to get tired now so maybe I'll finish the rest of this tomorrow. Let's have a look at tea first though, briefly, shall we?
I kind of object to the general approach to the tea vote, and I think there are some inconsistencies here too. For instance, I dislike the pingpong, firstly. He thinks that tea is unfairly shading him and jumps onto him, only to then come off tea later and say that the wagon was happening too fast. But I think the wagon was
already
going too fast by the time that Norway got on to it. He was the vote who put it to 6 within like 2 pages. Then there's like a consistent shading of tea's play while still calling him town. I think that this is norway wanting to leave the door open to move his vote back there at a later point. Scum know that the first flash wagon of the day is unlikely to go through (and yes, I think tea is town for this) so it's not an uncommon strategy to try and slow it down if it's going too fast, only to move back there later. I think Norway's play is consistent with this.
Specifically, we can see this when he comes back to voting tea in #589. This is especially concerning given what I've already mentioned about his FL progression aka the scumread that disappeared.
But next we have what I think is the number one problem with Norway's tea progression on D1. He starts to talk about how he's convinced that tea is an alt of mine, and therefore, in his eyes, "conf!scum" (#650). When chenn outs himself, Norway
completely gives up his tea scumread
. Now, if the scumread had been entirely based on him believing that the meta-case-that-wasnt-exactly-a-meta-case was scum!indicative specifically from me, this would be alright. BUT THAT DISREGARDS ALL THE POSTS HE MADE BEFORE THE 'META CASE' ABOUT HOW TEA!SLOT WAS BAD. It makes no sense that the stuff he thought was bad about the slot BEFORE THAT CASE suddenly disappears just because the reasons to consider tea!slot scum for the meta case are gone.
So why does that all just vanish? Because he's not got a real read on chenn and he forgot that he was meant to be SRing him independently of the meta case after that excuse got shot down.
General scumminess
There's also some other shading of davesaz, Luca, past!me, A50, zote in some of his D1 posts but that's not super scum!indicative. I only mention it because it's more of Norway not being focussed outside of tunnelling on tea imo.
When you add that to him being happy to vote both wake, dolly, and me coming into today, he's way too vote happy.
In post 1312, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Pisskop’s inexplicable SR on me made up my mind to revisit his slot Fish Monger. And what i found was awful, genuinely awful. Yet almost nobody has given him any scrutiny yet? Come on. VOTE: Pisskop
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In post 1330, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Why did i switch. I must have been drunk last night. Wagon votes are better. VOTE: Dolly
I'm not buying that you were "flattered" by me and Gamma mistaking Chennisden for you, yet now you're claiming my "progressions don't make sense". I think you've gotten yourself firmly into the scum mindset by now and is set on playing me up as the mislynch. VOTE: Menalque
This post is also trash for obvious reasons:
Spoiler:
In post 523, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Why is aimlessness on D1 scummy?
And another question for you, why is not being aimless on D1 town indicative?
And this pk shading based on him lynching wrong in a past game followed by a vote for him shortly after is also terrible, esp the "I'd sooner trust FL's words in his villainous breakdown rant than your reads" which is so hyperbolic and unnecessary:
In post 990, NorwegianboyEE wrote:You know we’d just ignore everything you just said when we see that redflip right?
Kind of disliking norway here, and this interaction w/flavor isnt helping.
This coming from the guy that lynched obvtown slots in nomination mafia. I'd sooner trust FL's words in his villainous breakdown rant than your reads.
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I'm gonna call it there for now. I've also mentioned in passing his wake progression being bad, but don't think that needs more paragraphs written about it. I think all of the most damning evidence for norway!scum is listed above in the post.
NB: Also, wanted to mention: if norway flips red I think that Dunn is lock!scum p much. I haven't like deeply investigated this, but the impression I get from their interactions is horrible. Decided to mention now bc if we lynch norway, which we should, I almost certainly die tonight.
In post 1402, Menalque wrote:Decided to mention now bc if we lynch norway, which we should, I almost certainly die tonight.
You won't die tonight if you lynch me lol.
Anyway, like i said. I've got an exam coming up. Just checking to see what's up. I'll respond later.
Norwe is spontaneous, has a stream-of-consciouness posting style, usually posts on catch-ups by commenting on past pages posts, gets rather fired up in certain moments in games, is relatively as playful as me in games and likes casual shitposting
lol @ the fact that Norway's initial response is "You won't die tonight if you lynch me lol" instead of any effort at engaging with the veritable mountain of evidence for scum!him
and I will die tonight norway because you red flipping makes me the towniest slot in the game
because there's basically no way in shit that I enter the game and the immediate scumplan is "okay, let's have mena hardbus norway who's not even in a bad position"
I don't have the time you dweeb.
Anyway, if i really get lynched because of your huge pile of garbage then that is proof that people have a bias for "townie-looking walls of text!!"
Also Tea and Gamma are key to my flip if it happens because of this.
Norwe is spontaneous, has a stream-of-consciouness posting style, usually posts on catch-ups by commenting on past pages posts, gets rather fired up in certain moments in games, is relatively as playful as me in games and likes casual shitposting
you have the time to post here saying you don't have the time
I think if you were actually town you'd be making a point to try and use the limited time you have to not get mislynched by scum (fypov) instead of just complaining about not having time
like this is quite literally a scumtell
and if it's a huge pile of garbage, it should be easy to debunk
only it's not, because you're scum and the reasons are listed very clearly for everyone to see
In post 1414, Menalque wrote:why are you more interested in dolly than talking to me about the 2 hours of work I just put into casing norway?
I haven't even read your Nor case yet, but I will.
You talk about Nor's progression but what about Dolly's progression on her reads on Wake and me, and saying that she is responsible for 'clearing' us as town?
Fmpov I'm not sure why you can't see that strongly pushing a counterwagon to the Dolly wagon, while not taking a firm view on Dolly, is suspicious, given you immediately SR me for apparently being a counterwagon.
I noticed the flip flop votes on you both but I think she's okay? I like that she's pushing Dunn, I think that she's being hyperbolic in saying she's responsible for clearing you but I do think wake's reaction to the "a guilty" comment was towny
In post 1416, Luca Blight wrote:Fmpov I'm not sure why you can't see that strongly pushing a counterwagon to the Dolly wagon, while not taking a firm view on Dolly, is suspicious, given you immediately SR me for apparently being a counterwagon.
yeah, well I SR you before I'd looked at the game more in depth
like, here's how it is: I think there is a huge fucking mountain of evidence for norway!scum
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop. Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop. Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
I just looked over Menalque's Nor case. You raise some good points against him tbf, but I find it hard to vote him over someone like A50 who has done nothing but stick with his three SL's since page three without trying to solve or develop his reads. Norweigian's progression is terrible, I'd agree, but at least he HAS progression, unlike A50.
In post 1423, Luca Blight wrote:I just looked over Menalque's Nor case. You raise some good points against him tbf, but I find it hard to vote him over someone like A50 who has done nothing but stick with his three SL's since page three without trying to solve or develop his reads. Norweigian's progression is terrible, I'd agree, but at least he HAS progression, unlike A50.
I don't agree with Dunn being scum.
why is lack of progression more scum indicative than shifting around on slots that make no sense?
