Large Normal 224 | Endgame

[Menalque]

I'm trying to understand why you think I might be scum with dolly/A50

[Luca Blight]

I’ve been pushing him for a while now but no-one seems to agree with me. Gamma has voted him but thats it.

[Luca Blight]

what's your read on wake, Luca?

I told you already that I SR Wake, although not as much as A50.

and dolly too?

Less so.

[Luca Blight]

I'm trying to understand why you think I might be scum with dolly/A50

I don’t particularly SR you right now, I was countering your argument as you seemed to be suggesting I’m scum with NorwegianboyEE - fmpov the same applies to you and A50/Dolly as you’re defending them and pushing hard elsewhere.

[Menalque]

Menalque, I could just as easily say you’re scum who is trying to defend Dolly/A50 and direct to NorwegianboyEE.

A50 is far worse than NorwegianboyEE yet is getting a free pass from many.

so do you actually think this or are you just saying it as a hypothetical? if it's just a hypothetical what is it helping you to do

because rn it looks a lot like shade to me

[Menalque]

eh you ninja'd me

okay, I need to think about that

you did have that spat with Norway on D1 that I was thinking was too much to be distancing

[Luca Blight]

I just said, I was countering your argument for me being scum.

[Menalque]

Oops, got super busy.

Okay, so definitely not wanting Wake for today.

Don’t really want A50 or Zote either.

Currently I don't understand the wagon on Tea.

Could it be boiled down for me please?

Lack of resistance on Tea wagon has me slightly worried.

wow this...does not look good

Sure, but is it town doesn’t look good or scum?

Why would scum contradict themselves so meaninglessly like that

Flavor went out of his way to protect Wake D1.

I could see both Wake88 and A50 being scum tbh.

Wake’s whole progression is awful.

I stand by my comment that both Wake and A50 are likely scum. A50 is actually my stronger scumread atm but I’m not sure if that lynch is going to get enough support. Will give my reasoning Tomorrow when I’m on a computer.

Why I think A50 is scum:

His play is very similar to the last game where I played against him, where he was was scum. He replaced in with a very similar style; lots of fluffs, no substance, but was generally TR on tone. from the end of D1 continuing into D2 he did absolutely nothing of value. Here is that game: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80583&user_select[]=26995

Other reasons:

The problem is your explanation explains nothing regarding the reason you were poked about it. How does deciding your RVS pre-game affect your given logic?

Allow me to intervene. Like, let's imagine DEB was in here. I probably would have voted him for doublecrossing the town in Korina's GIM. I would have done it regardless of whether I rolled Town or Scum here, because it was decided since Korina's game ended. Both the vote target AND the reason were decided BEFORE I would have known my role/alignment in THIS game.

Sp far I have Gamma. Layla and Zorte as Town Leans, and only Nor as a mild scum lean.

VOTE: Layla opportunistic wagon hop

Vorky's town.. I think.

Easy reads thrown out there without any substance to them.

Tea seesawing Nor could be: (a) Genuine, (b) Scum coming to the rescue of their buddy who had been forced to vote them after having failed to make a distancing maneuver, or (c) Scum WKing someone they know ill flip town.

(a) Tea is Town, Nor is unknown.
(b) Both are scum.
(c) Tea us Scum, Nor is Town.

66% Scum!Tea, 50% Scum!Nor

This is not a natural way of scumhunting. It's just a dressed up way of sitting on the fence. Again, looking busy with zero substance behind it.

The whole

'crafting an RVS vote before getting a role PM

' thing seems weird to me, though. I could see this being a lie, because I can't imagine why anyone would make an RVS post before the game has even opened.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Layla

I liked you for the post just before this none and was getting ready to move your name to the Town leans group, but this brought you back to the middle group of nulls. It's not scummy it itself, but you voted Tea so I got the impression you were all caught up until that point, so why did you suddenly have that change of heart?

Here he's trying to look considered in his reads, but it doesn't feel real. Since when is changing one's mind a scum trait? Scum know everyone's alignment, Town don't.

By the time I am at the top of page 4 I am confused. One of Nor, Tea and Luca is scum here. I just dunno which.

This is not a reasonable progression. Page four and he's sure there's one scum in this group, based on what exactly? It's lazy.

Bottom of page 5:

Town pile (nothing carved in stone though): davesaz, Gamma Emerald, Zote the Mighty, Layla, Vorkuta, Chemist1422, Reundo
I want to TR but my gut says no: Flavor Leaf
Absolutely null: Pmysterious12, Fish Monger, Billy Pilgrim, Dunnstral, Wake88, splitfarvle
Scum leans: Luca Blight, NorwegianboyEE, Tea (but I'm almost certain not all 3 are scum together and I even think they may only have one scum in them)

Look how easily that group of players made their way into the town pile - it's baseless.

Spoiler:

The whole

'crafting an RVS vote before getting a role PM

' thing seems weird to me, though. I could see this being a lie, because I can't imagine why anyone would make an RVS post before the game has even opened.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Layla

I liked you for the post just before this none and was getting ready to move your name to the Town leans group, but this brought you back to the middle group of nulls. It's not scummy it itself, but you voted Tea so I got the impression you were all caught up until that point, so why did you suddenly have that change of heart?

Although, going back to your original post, I'm wondering why exactly you were about to TL me for my first post?

A50 completely ignored this. I still don't get why he would TL me for my first post - it's almost as strange as his decision to SL me for my second.

Hello, friends. I don't have a lot of experience because this is my first time posting to this Large Normal Game, so I ask you to treat me like a simple newbie.

I'm not sure if this is the right play but I'm going to claim jester, I can help everyone find the mafia but only if you promise to lynch me before the last mafia gets lynched.

So far I have read the first couple of pages of this game, and Layla is flailing after people suspected her for her RVS vote so quite suspicious of that. Norwee pushed it for good reasons but his floppity-flipping on it was weird. Zote the Fucking Mighty seems like a really strong player, I want to say something suspicious about him but I'm afraid of what he's capable of and what he'll do if I say it. Can someone else say it please?

I hope everyone enjoyed my catchup, I worked hard to make it.

Found my preferred lynch on scum.

VOTE: Hectic

First off, he asked to be lynched... to win.
Second, seriously, no Jesters is Normals so LAL
Third, he also Amish-told.

I dunno what to say, but the Hectic I know doesn't do all 3, and especially not #3 (I guess it was an attempt to look clueless thus be TR'd for it??)

What happened to this SR? Did A50 just forget about it, as it was never mentioned again.

To tell you the truth; FL's last spew got to me hard. I don't know whether he included a p in his FoS pile after having been hammered. I guess knowing someone too well can backfire.

If I can bring myself to it, I will probably reread this game as if I've just joined it. I make no promises though as I have been failing to concentrate much of late (since that VLA declaration), and I don't even feel like talking about it.

P-edit: Obviously I have nothing for nor against Wake. All I ask is to give him 48-72 hours to try and post something AI.

It feels really fake what he's saying about FL here - just a really bad excuse for not getting involved. This post really aligns with his scum meta from the other game where he's excusing himself for doing nothing. Protecting Wake once again makes me feel an A50/Wake partneship is possible, among other reasons.

Between the 2 candidates; Luca certainly is my preferred lynch. I still would rather Tea though as I have an inexplicable bad gut feeling on him.

VOTE: Luca

This is an awful post, considering his vote casually puts me on L-2. He hasn't given any update on his reads since mid-D1. He's wagoning me but excusing himself from the outcome by saying 'I would rather Tea'. And what happened to his Hectic SR? What about his Norweigan SR? How does he feel about Split? He's not revealing what he thinks about anything.

1160 - Here A50 completely distracts from my relevant question of 'why do you prefer my lynch' by asking me a load of pointless questions and then misrepping me by making out I'm trying to say I'm town for asking a question, which is something I've never done.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: A50

VOTE: Dolly

This is my kind of rush. I’m getting a little excited.

I mean this is what I can see on A50 from you, which I don't think is very hard pushing and you only really started like 4 days ago

[Menalque]

so idk why you'd be that surprised in light of that that A50 hasn't picked up a lot of votes, seeing as you've only just switched back to pushing him again now at end of day and tbh you're not pushing it with the same conviction that I'm pushing norway

[Luca Blight]

Look how easily the other wagons picked up in comparison.

[Luca Blight]

And I don’t know what more I could do to push A50 than repeat the same stuff over and over?

NorwegianboyEE is far more active than A50, who only pops in when it’s almost prod time, so of course you’re going to have more interactions.

[pisskop]

Pisskop is just a meme.

a meme who nailed you to the wall here and had good reads in nomination. *waggle*

[NorwegianboyEE]

like I'm gonna break down that "defence" but look how superficial it is

how is that a "good defence"?

What is a good defense in your opinion?
I don't think anything i'd say would convince you because of how hard you're tunneling right now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

All you have for teammate association is maybe Dunnstral, and nothing else.
You didn't even show any examples of why Dunnstral is my theoretical scum teammate.
All your case is based on maybe's and progression what if's. I don't even need to make a good defense against that, because your case is bad to begin with.

[NorwegianboyEE]

@Luca
If i’m town, what does that make Menalque?

[Luca Blight]

Is Wake going to post his reads as promised or will he just lurk out the rest of the day?

@Nor: I’m leaning Town on Menalque regardless atm.

[Menalque]

The scum!indicative thing here is later on. He says in #173 that "Layla is looking more town right now". There's plenty of action in the game between #173 and #601, but there's no explanation for why Layla went from looking more town to being scummy again. In his top 3 SRs after Tea, in fact.

Lol really? So because i said Layla is looking a bit more town, yet put her as a scumlean in my first hurried reads list that makes me scummy? Epic fail argument. -1 credibility points for Menalque.
I like to constantly describe my thoughts, if someone sounds scummy or town i will say it. Does that mean i will 100% townbin or scumbin anyone at a given time? No.
Also, do you really expect my reads to remain static in a 18 player game when i didn't even remember the names of half the playerlist when i made that first reads list?

yes, saying someone is looking more town then putting them in the bottom of your readslist is scummy, this is obviously a thing

trying to excuse your readslist as being "hurried" doesn't help your case at all. even if a readslist is "hurried" it still normally shows some level of consistency when it's a readslist coming from town

no-one is saying you should be "100% townbin or scumbin" anyone and that's quite clearly a misrep of my position

I'm saying your read on her doesn't make sense consistently with what happened in the game. Between 173 and 601, Layla made one post:

I'll be back tomorrow.
Right now I'm occupied with this shiny new Pokemon game.

your original reasons for voting her were weak, you then said she'd become townier, then you put her at at the bottom of your readslist again

your progression doesn't make sense

Then, Layla reps out. Norway has some interaction with hectic, but very little. Hectic comes up 6 times if you ctrl+f his name in Norway's ISO, and one of those posts is #931 suggesting that hectic is very scummy.

But then by the time of his readslist in #1358 hectic is back to "no strong stance" rather than being in the scummy pool.

This entire progression doesn't make sense based on how much hectic posted in the interim (or Layla for that matter) and especially doesn't make sense given Norway's expressed opinions on them.

So you're referring to this post:

Hectic now has -15 points.

Which is an obvious joke post.
And then claiming i'm scummy for putting him as "null" read in 1358 when this has been pretty much my read the whole time?
-5 credibility points for Menalque.

you literally can't stop scumclaiming, can you? you haven't had a nullread the entire time, or you've been voting your nullreads instead of your scumreads which is just as bad

chenn and I already covered that joke posting is very easily a smoke screen for deniability so I don't see any reason to take that seriously, you could argue that post either way depending on the narrative you wanted it to fit later on

point remains: if you had a nullread there "pretty much the entire time" why was Layla in the bottom of your readslist in 601? and why did you make this vote and this follow up?

I'll be back tomorrow.
Right now I'm occupied with this shiny new Pokemon game.

I'll be back tomorrow.
Right now I'm occupied with this shiny new Pokemon game.

Now i want to go back to this initial vote.

VOTE: Layla

Oh i just realized we're awaiting an replacement for the Layla slot.
Maybe i shouldn't be voting there then.
UNVOTE:

if you had serious concerns about the slot, as expressed by you voting there again, why didn't you make any effort to sort/interact with hectic after he repped in? why is your first interaction 746 instead of something substantive? what about hectic's posts made him move from being one of your top scum slots back into null?

Okay, now let's look at Norways interactions around the FL slot. So we get the sudden FL vote, which is explained as coming from rereading the game in #175. We then have a number of posts on problems with FL and why his posting is scummy. NB: before this, Norway was voting for tea.

But then he COMPLETELY REVERSES HIS OPINION in #315 despite FL having NO INTERACTION with him in-between his initial FL vote and revoting tea with saying that "FL can be town for now". Like, he doesn't explain why his reasons for SRing FL became less valid, and also FL *unvotes his top scumspect immediately after Norway revotes tea*.

Yeah, i unvoted because nobody really cared to join my vote. And my scumcase wasn't that strong. Therefore i unvoted for the sake of joining an actual wagon.
Another twisting of events to suit your scum!me narrative.
-3 credibility points for Menalque.

again, how does this help your case in any way?

you want us to believe that you let go of someone you genuinely scumread in order to bandwagon... the person your scumread was voting?

this isn't me creating a scum!you narrative, it's me literally pointing out that your actions and words have no congruity

Firstly, the fact that norway feels the need to provide an explanation specifically and uniquely for FL in his #601 readslist. And secondly his just strange behaviour around FL after the chemist guilty, where goes from asking for more discussion to aggressively insisting the lynch happen as fast as possible. It's an odd tonal shift.

Yeah, because we went from "Chemist might have an guilty" to: "Chemist totally exposed FL as obvious mafia" so therefore there was no need for anymore discussion in my opinion. Maybe you're different. But i don't really care much for keeping exposed mafia alive any more than necessary. Especially when he kept spouting bullshit and distracting everyone.
Why is this scum indicative again?
-1 credibility points for Menalque.
The things you're writing about the tea wagon doesn't need any response, you're just wrong. I am proud of my handling of that slot, and i don't see how it makes me scum. No matter how much caps lock you use it isn't going to prove it otherwise.
-20 credibility points for Menalque.

you wanna know what doesn't make sense about your thing on FL, norway?

Spoiler:

I have a guilty on Flavor Leaf

VOTE: FL

Damn. I’m actually a Night 1 Miller Novice Role Cop. I didn’t think anyone would target me the first night, and I’ve been claiming Miller as scum a lot early game lately.

I just did it in a game A50 and I had ss scum recently even.

If ya wanna check me again.



Is that scummy of me to say? I got nothing.

UNVOTE:

I don't buy this at all but I'll hold off for clarification

You got a guilty. Why listen to this scum joker?

LYNCH! LYNCH! LYNCH!
VOTE: Flavour Leaf

Yeah so I was never actually a cop

I'm actually a Loyal Neighborizer, and if FL was really a miller he'd be neighborized. He isn't.

I withheld this for this exact scenario

this doesn't make sense. chem claims a guilty, you claim you want "discussion" first. when FL makes a claim that chem unvotes because of, you then start yelling at him to lynch FL immediately. this is before chem reveals that the guilty isn't a cop guilty but a neighbouriser guilty. and FL hadn't even started WIFOMing the thread here, so your claim that you wanted to stop him from "spouting bullshit and distracting everyone" doesn't really hold up either. that only came after the point where you made this post.

also telling that you've tried to put more focus on this part, rather than the initial thing of your vote-then-townread not making sense. like you said very clearly that you actually were town reading FL in your readslist in 601. if that's true, why are you now saying that the reason you went off FL was because people wouldn't join you on him? your justifications are changing to suit your story

also, you're trying to wriggle out of responding about tea because you don't have a good response. I don't see why you think anyone should believe you. if it's so clearly wrong, it should be incredibly easy for you to explain it to the rest of the thread.

When you add that to him being happy to vote both wake, dolly, and me coming into today, he's way too vote happy.

Unless you've got specific proof that i'm distracting from a wagon on one of my scum partners (in which case, you need to name who) this isn't scum indicative. Stop pretending it is.

I mean, yes, it is. You've voted like 4-5 slots today, I think, I can't remember which off hand. but either way that's a lot of willingness to lynch a lot of different people, which, again, comes more often from scum.

And this pk shading based on him lynching wrong in a past game followed by a vote for him shortly after is also terrible, esp the "I'd sooner trust FL's words in his villainous breakdown rant than your reads" which is so hyperbolic and unnecessary:

Dude, my literal persona is hyperbolic and unnecessary. Town or scum. Don't believe me? Read page 29 of my towngame here: viewtopic.php?f=83&t=81377&start=700

the point is not that it's hyperbolic and unnecessary, the point is your shading of pk for being wrong in a past game as if that makes him scummy here

I shouldn't have said "esp" it distracted from the main point but I'd been writing for like nearly 2 hours by then so *shrug*

I think all of the most damning evidence for norway!scum is listed above in the post.

NB: Also, wanted to mention: if norway flips red I think that Dunn is lock!scum p much. I haven't like deeply investigated this, but the impression I get from their interactions is horrible. Decided to mention now bc if we lynch norway, which we should, I almost certainly die tonight.

There is no damning evidence. Where? You got a guilty or something? Why are you unable to view my position from a town perspective?
I don't see why you connect me with Dunn, but if you've got anything specific examples you want to talk about go ahead.
And the reason i pointed out your last paragraph yesterday is because if you're town, i thought it would be really funny for you to have such a hubris that you actually believe "scum is going to nightkill me tommorow because of this!" when in reality i'd flip town and the mafia would keep you alive because you'd look scummy as fuck rallying the lynch against a town slot.

damning evidence doesn't have to be a guilty???? like literally no-one believes that? if there is a whole host of evidence to show that you don't have real reads, you don't look like town, you've flipped your read from scum->town with no reason on flipped scum, you've pushed flipped town relatively out of nowhere (I can do a PM thing too if I need to) then the evidence is damning regardless of mechanical guilties

you've been on site long enough to know that mechanical guilties are absolutely not the bread and butter of this site when it comes to finding scum

you keep trying to make this about the less important stuff ("I don't see why you connect me with Dunn") instead of focussing on all the relevant points throughout the rest of the case. it's because you're trying to devalue the case but you can't deal with the meat of it because you know all my points are true.

[Menalque]

And I don’t know what more I could do to push A50 than repeat the same stuff over and over?

NorwegianboyEE is far more active than A50, who only pops in when it’s almost prod time, so of course you’re going to have more interactions.

I don't see you engaging multiple players and trying to get them to vote him

even now you're mostly engaging me and trying to turn me off norway

[Menalque]

All you have for teammate association is maybe Dunnstral, and nothing else.
You didn't even show any examples of why Dunnstral is my theoretical scum teammate.
All your case is based on maybe's and progression what if's. I don't even need to make a good defense against that, because your case is bad to begin with.

this is hilarious, and also funny because you ninja'd me while I was rebutting your "defence"

the fact that you're so desperate to make this about the one thing that I didn't substantiate rather than the numerous incredibly well documented examples of you being scummy is scum!indicative because you're trying to shift the focus off your scummy behaviour onto something p unimportant and that I specifically said was only there for future reference

if you were town you'd actually be trying to engage with why the important points are wrong

instead you're circling around the edges of them and picking at anything you can to try and distract from the fact that you're caught scum

[Menalque]

like, the truth is that I don't need to show examples of why Dunn is your scumbuddy rn

the priority for me now is to get you flipped

after that I probably die, but in that case I'm conf!town and hopefully after being right on you people will be more likely to sheep me on dunn, esp after checking him in joint ISO with you or mining your ISOs for associatives

if I'm still alive tomorrow, then I'll case dunn fully, but there's no incentive for me to split focus onto him when I've already caught you

[Menalque]

pinguino, can you prod Dave pls?

[Luca Blight]

And I don’t know what more I could do to push A50 than repeat the same stuff over and over?

NorwegianboyEE is far more active than A50, who only pops in when it’s almost prod time, so of course you’re going to have more interactions.

I don't see you engaging multiple players and trying to get them to vote him

even now you're mostly engaging me and trying to turn me off norway

I have been engaging players - each time I get meta shit in response and each time I refute it.

Your last sentence is simply not true.

[Menalque]

yeah that might have been slightly unfair, I'm a little annoyed about how this game is basically dead enough that I'm having to go back and forth with only 2 players at this point

[Menalque]

okay, can you find me some examples of you engaging players on A50 scum from before I repped in?

[Menalque]

and can you answer me on why Norway's response is a "good defence" ? bc I don't think you did yet