FF, if I'm flipped, you can still redeem your admittedly poor play today; listen to me and consider Dann locktown in LyLo. Get your teammates to help solve. Don't drag the rest of us down with you.
In post 4927, Donempire wrote:So you think its a possibility that cheeky gets night killed there. By proxy, you think there is a possibility that cheeky is town.
So your proposed team is BB/gobble?
It isn't a proxy, I've been calling her town throughout.
That post was a little bit salt, but Dann being in LyLo risks someone like you voting him and losing the game. I need to be extra sure you won't do that.
Cool, I'm scum, you caught me, vote me - I'm at L-2
That's been my proposed team for multiple days now. Once I flip, make sure to read the interactions with Molla from the last few pages again. If you/FF don't just lolvote Dann, then Molla will probably 1v1 you.
Dong, just entertain the notion that I'm town for a second. If I'm scum, you win the game anyway, because I'm at L-2 and FF will vote with you for sure. If I'm town... Can you promise to listen to my Dann locktown read?
I have never believed his posts were anything outstanding, but thats not the smoking gun for me. The last 3 posts he made seem like its coming from frustrated scum that got caught due to luck, and his desperation to switch to a NSG wagon shows that also.
Dong is aggressively shading Formerfish here for his vote on the NSG wagon. This has the double effect of defending against an NSG lynch by painting the people voting her in a bad light. This also helps try to move the town towards a Formerfish lynch (which was a very real possibility at this point in the game).
In post 1206, Donempire wrote:Gobble wagon seems rushed. I think people caved in too early to formers offensive.
I especially didnt like that nsg was MIA and yet former still said she was making it a 1v1, shes not even here
I will also say that i dont like how cheeky attacked dunn out of thin air - it seems like it was meant as a way to lull the nonattentive to thinking dunn was doing something malicious against her when he wasnt. As far as i see its not like she scumreads him either so wtf?
EP has a few quick thoughts about this post. He says that it is a misrepresentation of Formerfish "going into a 1v1" with NSG. EP also says that this is another soft defense of NSG when Dong said "shes not even here" because it is providing a subtext that NSG's lynch will have less appealing information than a Formerfish lynch.
I think this post is interesting because here Dong states that he does not like how Cheeky attacked Dunn. This will be important because this seems to imply a scum read on Cheeky. I think this is also a potential buddy comment with Dunn who was townreading Dunn at the time.
I have never believed his posts were anything outstanding, but thats not the smoking gun for me. The last 3 posts he made seem like its coming from frustrated scum that got caught due to luck, and his desperation to switch to a NSG wagon shows that also.
It comes several hours after this post where Dong acknowledges the read.
Not a logical reason yes but i didnt check the vc or the deadline, i just wanted to get in whatevee i had in mind and go to bed
Not defending myself but i dont want anyone to get the wrong ideas either.
And a very passive defense of himself. The way this post is worded gives me the impression that Dong did not want to look like he was strongly defending himself against that attack out of a fear for how the optics might look.
EP then says the next string of posts don't make much sense because of Dong's stated reads and their progressions.
We have this group of three, which appears to be a townbloc given the defense of NSG.
In post 1298, Donempire wrote:Thats where my mind is at. I dont think i will be considering anyone else to lynch tomorrow but i do want to make a case on esp come tomorrow.
This is seemingly reinforced by the comment here that he wants to push Espeonage the next day. If it was a scum list, Dong would have listed Espeonage in that list.
But if that is a town list, it doesn't explain Dong's earlier comment that he did not like Cheeky's attack on Dunn, a person who he openly defending and town reading.
In post 1299, Donempire wrote:Im starting to turn on ceph and i tr kitty. I didnt like hops recent posting however.
And it further doesn't make sense when he is softly attacking Hopkirk here.
So really, what is that list? And why is NSG in it when she was barely present as Dong himself stated?
I could vote here for sure. Votes me but doesn't have me as scum...
Lol? I already said that was my suspect list for tomorrow. Today its just you, and i think your fates been sealed
Ah, so it IS a scum group. But there's no justification for NSG being there. Especially given Dong's earlier statements about NSG and the oblique defense of the NSG wagon by virtue of attacking Formerfish. Here Dong discusses Formerfish's wagon as if it is a done deal. He is actively pushing the narrative that Formerfish is the lynch today, even though he apparently now scumreads NSG.
Hes not detlecting you idiot, dunns been active. Do you know what deflecting means?
Here we see a further defense of Dunn, which I think is important because it could explain why Dunnstral was later killed after his support on Dong was visibly weakening.
In post 1387, BBmolla wrote:I like these wagons what course should I be taking?
Former seems like its a done deal at this pointz i doubt trying to flip everyone on nsg at the last moment will work, and im pretty sure on former (im also convinced on nsg but in a decision of one or the other...)
Again, here Dong is pushing the narrative that Formerfish is a done deal. Not that he is even scum. Just that his wagon is a done deal and it should happen. I think this post is incredibly important in analyzing Dong's thought process of the situation. BUT Dong even gives us more information saying that he could also vote NSG, but one or the other he chooses Former because it is a "decision of one or the other..." when in reality his vote would have made NSG's lynch secure, but his vote on Formerfish just made that wagon a contender.
In post 1387, BBmolla wrote:I like these wagons what course should I be taking?
Former seems like its a done deal at this pointz i doubt trying to flip everyone on nsg at the last moment will work, and im pretty sure on former (im also convinced on nsg but in a decision of one or the other...)
This is a pretty lazy excuse, your vote on nsg would put her to l-1, while your vote on FF ties the wagons at l-2, so "flipping everyone" isn't something that needs to happen if you wanted to
I'll be willing to flip on nsg if formers wagon stops traction, but its not because i scumread nsg over him but rather to just get a lynch in. I'm still in full support of a former hanging.
Dunnstral even calls him out for that very same premise! And Dong backtracks on his certainty of the Formerfish wagon using totally external reasoning rather his own thoughts. This is a parachute phrase. Dong is saying he won't move his vote unless certain external criteria occurs, which he is actively preventing from happening by pushing the narrative that Formerfish's wagon is done.
Now we get into the reason why I have been HMMing the end of Day 1 wagons when we have votes like this...
On someone who was not in his list of scum. Someone he did not openly say he wanted to pressure or case. A vote despite Formerfish being a "done deal."
This is blatantly a preservation vote to protect NSG. Notice how the Formerfish wagon LOST TRACTION yet Dong DID NOT VOTE NSG. This is directly contradictory to what he said he would do earlier.
In post 1418, Donempire wrote:I still dont like cheeky but im not the nk, i can expand on that tomorrow.
He still doesn't like Cheeky, yet he is fully willing to join a flash wagon that she started. How does that make sense from a town perspective? It doesn't. It makes sense from the scum perspective of a player wanting to get a lynch.
In post 1446, Donempire wrote:Why is every top wagon just kicking and screaming and then we go on to another wagon
Dong is openly bemoaning that this is now the SECOND wagon that someone has used emotion to get themselves out of.
In post 1457, Donempire wrote:NSGs not here to flood an entire page with insults, guess thats who were lynching today then
Here is again softly defending NSG by calling out reasoning for people unvoting.
He then says that the NSG hammer is the worst compromise for him when he was openly stating he saw her as scum earlier. Dong's reads and actions surrounding these wagons
do not make sense
. Given his earlier comments, it is not the worst compromise. It was the ORIGINAL compromise he agreed to when he said he would vote there if the Formerfish wagon lost traction. Which it did. To which he then voted BBmolla. A wagon that was started by one of his earlier stated scum reads. A scum read that he still maintained as we can see in the quote below.
I agree. I believe that cheeky especially should be looked into tomorrow.
In post 1490, Donempire wrote:Whatever nsg flips doesnt mean anything. Scum can say "durr if hes town/scum then so and so is scum!!" since they know the flip beforehand. What all of you need to do now is shut up about it, we'll know her role in a few hours.
The icing on the cake is that Dong is openly trying to get people to stop talking about things simply because he hammered and the flip was coming. What? Why would a townie want that to happen? Why wouldn't he want to continue to talk especially when he made a comment that he was CONCERNED about his activity and interactions in the thread here:
In post 1277, Donempire wrote:Im not posturing. You think we're done? I wanted to use the some time left over to make up for my activity.
I have never believed his posts were anything outstanding, but thats not the smoking gun for me. The last 3 posts he made seem like its coming from frustrated scum that got caught due to luck, and his desperation to switch to a NSG wagon shows that also.
Dong is aggressively shading Formerfish here for his vote on the NSG wagon. This has the double effect of defending against an NSG lynch by painting the people voting her in a bad light. This also helps try to move the town towards a Formerfish lynch (which was a very real possibility at this point in the game).
What the fuck does aggressively shading mean? I'm openly saying that former is scum there, there is no shading going on. The only reason i didnt vote FF was because he was L-1 a page ago, i want a lynch but i want to make a consensus lynch instead of lolhammering. Thats a scummy thing?
Also, no shit, i wanted to lynch former and didnt want to lynch nsg. You're just coming to that conclusion?
In post 1206, Donempire wrote:Gobble wagon seems rushed. I think people caved in too early to formers offensive.
I especially didnt like that nsg was MIA and yet former still said she was making it a 1v1, shes not even here
I will also say that i dont like how cheeky attacked dunn out of thin air - it seems like it was meant as a way to lull the nonattentive to thinking dunn was doing something malicious against her when he wasnt. As far as i see its not like she scumreads him either so wtf?
EP has a few quick thoughts about this post. He says that it is a misrepresentation of Formerfish "going into a 1v1" with NSG. EP also says that this is another soft defense of NSG when Dong said "shes not even here" because it is providing a subtext that NSG's lynch will have less appealing information than a Formerfish lynch.
I think this post is interesting because here Dong states that he does not like how Cheeky attacked Dunn. This will be important because this seems to imply a scum read on Cheeky. I think this is also a potential buddy comment with Dunn who was townreading Dunn at the time.
Oh? How is that a misrepresantation? If you're going to say something, explain it so i dont have to fish it out.
Also, one quick question:
Did nsgs lynch provide any information?
If we lynched former, we would have lynched nsg tomorrow and both auro and dann would have been at a knifes edge. The game situation would have been
better
.
Also yeah, i hard scumread cheeky for the longest time. You're just saying things that have been clear for ages like its a brand new revelation.
I have never believed his posts were anything outstanding, but thats not the smoking gun for me. The last 3 posts he made seem like its coming from frustrated scum that got caught due to luck, and his desperation to switch to a NSG wagon shows that also.
It comes several hours after this post where Dong acknowledges the read.
Not a logical reason yes but i didnt check the vc or the deadline, i just wanted to get in whatevee i had in mind and go to bed
Not defending myself but i dont want anyone to get the wrong ideas either.
And a very passive defense of himself. The way this post is worded gives me the impression that Dong did not want to look like he was strongly defending himself against that attack out of a fear for how the optics might look.
Whats your point
Like, there is nothing for me to say here. There is no point.
It comes several hours after i say former is scum, because like i said, he was at l-1 just last page. I didnt want to risk lolhammers or hurrying up the lynch.
I wasnt posturing, and you didnt say anything about that.
And no, i dont care about "how the optics look" or about defending myself. I have been heavily scumread this entire game. The optics look like a boot fished from the marianas trench. I didnt defend myself because i dont care, my number 1 priority is finding scum which at that point i hadnt done.
Spoiler:
In post 4676, gobbledygook wrote:
EP then says the next string of posts don't make much sense because of Dong's stated reads and their progressions.
We have this group of three, which appears to be a townbloc given the defense of NSG.
In post 1298, Donempire wrote:Thats where my mind is at. I dont think i will be considering anyone else to lynch tomorrow but i do want to make a case on esp come tomorrow.
This is seemingly reinforced by the comment here that he wants to push Espeonage the next day. If it was a scum list, Dong would have listed Espeonage in that list.
But if that is a town list, it doesn't explain Dong's earlier comment that he did not like Cheeky's attack on Dunn, a person who he openly defending and town reading.
In post 1299, Donempire wrote:Im starting to turn on ceph and i tr kitty. I didnt like hops recent posting however.
And it further doesn't make sense when he is softly attacking Hopkirk here.
So really, what is that list? And why is NSG in it when she was barely present as Dong himself stated?
Its a lynch list.
"I wouldnt consider lynching anyone besides those tomorrow" means its a lynch list.
I only defended nsg because there wasnt enough info to go around. Same drum.
On espeonage, mind the "BUT" in the sentence. I wouldnt want to lynch outside that group BUT i want to make a case on esp.
Its such an easy thing, you can just ask me instead of speculating. You know, if you considered me to be aligned with the same faction instead of burrowing your head underground and doing whatever auro and dann want you to.
I could vote here for sure. Votes me but doesn't have me as scum...
Lol? I already said that was my suspect list for tomorrow. Today its just you, and i think your fates been sealed
Ah, so it IS a scum group. But there's no justification for NSG being there. Especially given Dong's earlier statements about NSG and the oblique defense of the NSG wagon by virtue of attacking Formerfish. Here Dong discusses Formerfish's wagon as if it is a done deal. He is actively pushing the narrative that Formerfish is the lynch today, even though he apparently now scumreads NSG.
Hes not detlecting you idiot, dunns been active. Do you know what deflecting means?
Here we see a further defense of Dunn, which I think is important because it could explain why Dunnstral was later killed after his support on Dong was visibly weakening.
Is there something in the progression of his vote that you don't like or is it more bad news bears because you think he's scummy in general? I'm very unsure on gobble right now because there's sort of a black hole in progressions for how he got to his original big read wall. WATCHING ACTIVITY LEVELS was bizarrely political phrasing for the absence. Now he uhhh, apparently likes everyone he used to dislike more besides Dongempire. I thought him liking FF for the burden of proof thing was random because it seemed like one of the more nai things in FF iso to me, but the overall progression on the read doesn't come off implausibly to me on face.
It felt like they turned on FF as soon as they could and that their read there was fake
In post 1387, BBmolla wrote:I like these wagons what course should I be taking?
Former seems like its a done deal at this pointz i doubt trying to flip everyone on nsg at the last moment will work, and im pretty sure on former (im also convinced on nsg but in a decision of one or the other...)
This is a pretty lazy excuse, your vote on nsg would put her to l-1, while your vote on FF ties the wagons at l-2, so "flipping everyone" isn't something that needs to happen if you wanted to
Either i kill him tonight since he clearly isnt in the mood to support me (whatever that means) or i never bother with him because im not scum.
The guy has me at his killpool, but apparently his support meant a lot to me. Sure.
In post 1387, BBmolla wrote:I like these wagons what course should I be taking?
Former seems like its a done deal at this pointz i doubt trying to flip everyone on nsg at the last moment will work, and im pretty sure on former (im also convinced on nsg but in a decision of one or the other...)
Again, here Dong is pushing the narrative that Formerfish is a done deal. Not that he is even scum. Just that his wagon is a done deal and it should happen. I think this post is incredibly important in analyzing Dong's thought process of the situation. BUT Dong even gives us more information saying that he could also vote NSG, but one or the other he chooses Former because it is a "decision of one or the other..." when in reality his vote would have made NSG's lynch secure, but his vote on Formerfish just made that wagon a contender.
Okay. So this post makes it sound like i dont think former is scum, and rather that i just want his lynch to be done with.
This would be a reasonable thought process, EXCEPT i say in the end that im still pretty sure on former. So i still believe former is scum.
And for the rest of the post, see below
In post 1387, BBmolla wrote:I like these wagons what course should I be taking?
Former seems like its a done deal at this pointz i doubt trying to flip everyone on nsg at the last moment will work, and im pretty sure on former (im also convinced on nsg but in a decision of one or the other...)
This is a pretty lazy excuse, your vote on nsg would put her to l-1, while your vote on FF ties the wagons at l-2, so "flipping everyone" isn't something that needs to happen if you wanted to
I'll be willing to flip on nsg if formers wagon stops traction, but its not because i scumread nsg over him but rather to just get a lynch in. I'm still in full support of a former hanging.
Dunnstral even calls him out for that very same premise! And Dong backtracks on his certainty of the Formerfish wagon using totally external reasoning rather his own thoughts. This is a parachute phrase. Dong is saying he won't move his vote unless certain external criteria occurs, which he is actively preventing from happening by pushing the narrative that Formerfish's wagon is done.
Now we get into the reason why I have been HMMing the end of Day 1 wagons when we have votes like this...
For clarification: I'm not a perfect player. But i know my strengths and weaknesses, and my number one weakness is not following voting procedure or vote counts. At the point i made the i was suspicious of former post, or the voting former post i hadnt checked the VCs once. My only reason for being there is to get my voice out since my vote can be placed on and off easily, its not something that weighs too heavily for me.
Again, my number 1 lynch to go is former. I only hammered nsg because there was no way former was dying at that point. If there was a sliver of possibility that former could be lynched even if nsg was on l-1, i would be on his case.
FORMER
WAS
MY
SCUMREAD.
And im kind of tired of responding to your shit arguments saying im scum for pushing a scummy player over someone whos afk.
On someone who was not in his list of scum. Someone he did not openly say he wanted to pressure or case. A vote despite Formerfish being a "done deal."
This is blatantly a preservation vote to protect NSG. Notice how the Formerfish wagon LOST TRACTION yet Dong DID NOT VOTE NSG. This is directly contradictory to what he said he would do earlier.
Lets analyze the situation where i did this:
Four other people already voted for BB: We were trying to lynch him with CFD. Yes, he wasnt my favourite suspect to vote but it was something. I admit i couldve done better and went for nsg but felt lazy. You do have a point there.
However this isnt a preservation vote. If this was, i wouldnt have hammered nsg no matter what. Many people barely survived a l-1 vote that day, why couldnt nsg?
In post 1418, Donempire wrote:I still dont like cheeky but im not the nk, i can expand on that tomorrow.
He still doesn't like Cheeky, yet he is fully willing to join a flash wagon that she started. How does that make sense from a town perspective? It doesn't. It makes sense from the scum perspective of a player wanting to get a lynch.
It makes sense from a town player tired of everyone ATEing out of their lynches so we're left with undesirable lynches, so i said fuck it. BB had the same scum equity as nsg did at that point, why not just hop in if ffs going to break the furniture when i push him.
Also, scum!dong isnt this bold.
He then says that the NSG hammer is the worst compromise for him when he was openly stating he saw her as scum earlier. Dong's reads and actions surrounding these wagons
do not make sense
. Given his earlier comments, it is not the worst compromise. It was the ORIGINAL compromise he agreed to when he said he would vote there if the Formerfish wagon lost traction. Which it did. To which he then voted BBmolla. A wagon that was started by one of his earlier stated scum reads. A scum read that he still maintained as we can see in the quote below.
Look numbnut
I wanted to lynch former
so lynching nsg is the worst compromise for me here because if shes town we're fucked to a tee, even if she is scum we're fucked because we're back to square one while the chances of hitting scum are dwindled and we'll shoot ourselves in the foot for the next coming days.
The compromise for me is we lynch former today, and nsg TOMORROW. When we have adequate posts to compare her to. If she doesnt, she dies anyway. If she does, great, we have a basis to read her on. EVEN BETTER.
Certainly better than fucking lolwagoning her day 1 and then mislynching 2 people, getting pocketed by both scum and having all your reads be incorrect, i think.
Age of Empires Elo: 1500 something in DE, 1800 in HD
Formerly Dongempire
Theres a few more lines i havent responded to, but fuck it, its the same shit you've been saying for half a paraghraph and im tired of repeating myself.
I feel bad for having typed this response, like actual pain.
Age of Empires Elo: 1500 something in DE, 1800 in HD
Formerly Dongempire
In post 4938, gobbledygook wrote:Dong, other than responding to the case, is there anything you want me to address?
I would like to talk to you about auro, unlike you said i didnt just say my piece and leave, i have been trying to push it. What do you think about it?
Age of Empires Elo: 1500 something in DE, 1800 in HD
Formerly Dongempire
Age of Empires Elo: 1500 something in DE, 1800 in HD
