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Not gonna lie--I never signed up for this game. I was assigned this game due to listmod error so was quite baffled when I received a role PM for a game that I never signed up for to play. But when I took a look at the game, I went, "...yaknow what, sure, why not?" and decided to stay in it.
With absolutely no clue there was even a hydra in the game, yet alone the identity of said hydra's heads.
Well, let me word it to you this way:
If you're not conftown, then someone else would be which would be better overall because you're obvtown enough to be conftown anyway.
Post
Post #110 (isolation #10) » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:30 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 45, Chronos wrote:I have no idea who that is, but rest assured, if it was someone you didn’t like, they’re not in the game.
Eh, I'm probably one of the few who didn't inherently dislike Yume.
In post 45, Chronos wrote:Mastina, what do you think of the post I quoted? On EP.
Well I voted Espresso.
I'm not convinced Espresso is scum, but Espresso certainly isn't locktown.
Granted, I only have two locktown with everyone else if they're town far below that, butstill.
Speaking of, let's put that to a tierlist:
Team STRQ + eyestott
Chronos
Egix96
Rabid Schnauzer
Titus
BSG Shadowlesscloud
alimdia Adorable EspressoPatronum BP
^This is where I am at right now, loosely. Locktown tier, equally locktown. Townlean tier, there for good reason. Nullish-town, there for good reason. (Ehh, it's more like townlean = townread, nullish-town = townlean I guess.) Then there's the null, and then there's the below-nulls, who're all exactly-equal, no stronger or weaker.
Post
Post #113 (isolation #11) » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:48 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 111, Team STRQ wrote:mastina should I be alarmed that your first list looks more sane than usual ?
I am entirely to blame for that--
I forgot to make one yesterday.
By having accidentally forgotten to make a first list yesterday, and delaying it by a day, I accidentally made it far, far saner than I would otherwise, because I accidentally got too much information.
Speaking of, VOTE: Adorable.
I'm pretty sure that 112 is just scum.
Wouldn't surprise me if I'm on the right track elsewhere, but legit have Adorable as strongest scumread by FAR right now.
Post
Post #138 (isolation #12) » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:28 am
Postby mastina »
In post 116, Titus wrote:Mastina, can you join me on BP? I think you're wrong on Adorable but right on EP and BP.
Sorry, Titus, but I'm not budging from Adorable.
Have you played with Adorable?
I have, and never before in my career have I so strongly felt that the contrast between the Adorable I'm seeing now and the Adorable I saw before is due to a different alignment. Adorable this game is oozing obvscum, not to mention, radiating an entirely different aura than when I played with her before, where she was obvtown pretty much immediately.
Post
Post #139 (isolation #13) » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:31 am
Postby mastina »
In post 122, Chronos wrote:Also, regarding Adorable, I think that their intro post makes a lot of sense and it is vote worthy (on mastina), so mastina and strq jumping the gun on them when they should know what a newbtown looks like is concerning.
I do know what newbtown Adorable looks like.
This isn't what newbtown Adorable looks like.
This is what newbscum Adorable looks like.
(Btw, just gonna say. 122 is a quintessential Yumesque post so I stand by my assessment there. )
Post
Post #144 (isolation #15) » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:46 am
Postby mastina »
In post 123, alimdia wrote:Do you guys know if mastina prefers playing town or scum?
It is incredibly public record that the answer's town. It's on my wiki, it's stated numerous times in MD, it's in all of my scumgames, it's in team mafia where I outlined why I wanted to be town, and in multiple towngames. Suffice to say, I despise being scum.
This is not the town Adorable that I've seen before.
I did a meta check on Adorable--every Adorable towngame looked similar to my experience with Adorable, and yet that experience with Adorable contrasts with what Adorable has done this game. And Adorable has radiated the aura of newbscum at every single stage. I legit just think that this is Adorable's first scumgame and that the difference between my expectations and what I see, as well as Adorable's all-around stunted stiltedness, is due to Adorable not knowing how to play scum and being out of their element, out of their depth, at the role.
unless she's town and genuinely dislikes everything about my posting and is hammering the fuck out of me. I've never encountered a player quite like this.
I swear to you, kid you not, that Chronos legit just gives off the quintessential Yume vibes because the things you're describing from Chronos are things that aren't out of place from Yume. Doesn't matter if Chronos is a different person from Yume, they give off the same sort of vibe to me, swear to god, if you approach the slot like it were Yume then even though Chronos probably isn't Yume that approach is still going to be a net positive because of the similarities.
In post 140, Titus wrote:If this is wrong or I die, you'll sheep me on EP/BP? I feel the same way about them on those two and they are in the bottom of your reads list.
I mean, they're in my scumread pile, so like...obviously, yes.
I would vote EP/BP in a heartbeat and it wouldn't surprise me to see that the scumteam this game has 2-3 newbs in it and that they're more or less running with their heads cut off due to lacking an IC to teach them.
Post
Post #154 (isolation #17) » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:58 am
Postby mastina »
Team STRQ + eyestott
Egix96
Titus
Chronos
alimdia
Rabid Schnauzer
BSG Shadowlesscloud
EspressoPatronum + BP
Adorable
Updated list.
Seeing Titus now, feel better about her. Need more from alimidia, but cautiously optimistic of this being town. Egix is also more town than before, so this is;
Locktown; strong townreads; decent townreads; weak townreads; null; scumreads.
In post 156, Team STRQ wrote:mastina talk to me about why Chronos is town and EP is scum.
I agree that EP is scum. I just don't understand how you can think EP is scum and think Yume is town.
(specifically pertaining to the second slot's dissonance on the first).
Honestly.
Gut that the Chronos-you spout is TvT. Chronos just doesn't seem to be scum and carries an aura of genuineness in the push, with an angle, strength, and energy that feels like it doesn't come from scum.
In post 168, Adorable wrote:So your scum read on me is because I played different than I did in that UPick game I played with you? This was my 3rd game I played here and players new to the forum change their playstyle.
I considered that! So I did some research.
Every game you've played previously was similar to the game I played with you before, where you were town.
None of your other games looked like your play this game, and the overall awkwardness and forced nature of your posting led me to the obvious conclusion.
Post
Post #172 (isolation #19) » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:25 pm
Postby mastina »
To put it another way;
My suspicion on Adorable isn't meta by itself.
My suspicion on Adorable is two-fold.
The first is the awkwardness of Adorable's posting--this is the stronger of the two reasons for scumreading Adorable, and is not specific to Adorable. Any player displaying the artificial tone Adorable has displayed would be a scumread of mine, even if I had never played with them before.
The second part is in the meta, of this
not
being my first game with Adorable, and in knowing that Adorable as town
isn't
awkward, isn't stilted, isn't artificial in tone. By having played with Adorable before, I know that her awkwardness isn't due to her being newbtown, because I've seen her as newbtown and lacking that awkwardness--and by doing a quick meta research, I was able to verify; my experience with Adorable matches every one of her prior games, whereas her play this game contrasts with those previous encounters.
Adorable this game is triggering multiple newbscum tells that are utterly absent from previous games of hers where she was town.
So I legit just think that she got a rough first scumgame here where she isn't quite sure how to play as scum.
Post
Post #261 (isolation #20) » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:32 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 173, Adorable wrote:You scum reading me for playing different is a bad way to scum way a player. Scum hunting is more about figuring out a player's objective.
In post 172, mastina wrote:To put it another way;
My suspicion on Adorable isn't meta by itself.
My suspicion on Adorable is two-fold.
The first is the awkwardness of Adorable's posting--this is the stronger of the two reasons for scumreading Adorable, and is not specific to Adorable. Any player displaying the artificial tone Adorable has displayed would be a scumread of mine, even if I had never played with them before.
The second part is in the meta, of this
not
being my first game with Adorable, and in knowing that Adorable as town
isn't
awkward, isn't stilted, isn't artificial in tone. By having played with Adorable before, I know that her awkwardness isn't due to her being newbtown, because I've seen her as newbtown and lacking that awkwardness--and by doing a quick meta research, I was able to verify; my experience with Adorable matches every one of her prior games, whereas her play this game contrasts with those previous encounters.
Adorable this game is triggering multiple newbscum tells
that are utterly absent from previous games of hers where she was town.
So I legit just think that she got a rough first scumgame here where she isn't quite sure how to play as scum.
Your play in this game actually looks a hell of a lot like your approach in that scumgame. You linked that in an attempt to clear your name but it actually is pretty damn condemning.
Post
Post #262 (isolation #21) » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:40 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 208, alimdia wrote:I don't know what to think about you 'publically' saying why you wanted to play this game.
I mean--it's publicly verifiable that I didn't sign up for this game; I wasn't a prein and never /inned for it and these things can be found to be true so it's pretty publicly obvious that I'm not lying about that--
And it is also obvious that I am not lying about wanting to play the game, because...I mean. I didn't sign up for this game as per the above being publicly verifiable so if I didn't want to play in it, I'd have an easy out. The mod/listmod would go, "whoops, our bad" (they did anyway) and my slot would've been replaced pregame without being mine.
I could of course claim what it is at any time, but it's day one--I feel like leaving it more unknown for now is prooooobably better.
In post 219, alimdia wrote:mastina, does this make u reconsider now that u know its not adorable's first game
No. Adorable having been scum once, with you (who, no offense, aren't exactly IC material; you're not exactly someone who'd be the best to teach her how to play scum), does not mean that suddenly, Adorable being scum isn't still newbscum. Adorable if she is scum as I suspect is absolutely still newbscum now. Not being her absolute first scumgame doesn't weaken my points; she's still someone who, as scum, doesn't know how to play, how to handle the role, what to do, etc.
Post
Post #263 (isolation #22) » Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:50 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 226, alimdia wrote:Adorable does look a bit frailing, and her defence has a bit of WIFOM in there, but there is quite a bit of scummy people on her wagon at this point.
Post
Post #359 (isolation #24) » Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:13 pm
Postby mastina »
Just gonna link to 276 with a solid note of approval as a very good dressing down of Adorable. But to give my own:
In post 74, Adorable wrote:Did I miss rvs and we're all on serious votes now? Two votes on page 2 looked like they were serious votes and some of the votes on page 3 looked like they were rvs.
This was Adorable's entrance into this game. It was more or less complaining and displaying confusion, which she kept generic. On the bottom of page three.
This immediately stuck out to me, because this was Adorable's entrance into a similar game with similar content:
In post 49, Adorable wrote:It's been a while since I last played a game here. I hope Elements is not scum again and I remember scum Elements was asking questions just like he's doing here.
In post 97, Adorable wrote:VOTE: Elbirn
I don't like how Elbirn votes without providing a reason and this is very frowned upon.
There's no complaining, there's no confusion. There's a fluff post and then a brief, succinct, serious vote.
Purely because until EspressoPatronum ruined it, we were the only three slots to have posted.
Speaking of, VOTE: EspressoPatronum
For ruining the three-man posting townbloc on page one.
This is not really a good vote reason to scum read someone. You scum read Espresso for doing an rvs on page 1 while you were interacting with eyestott and Team on page 1? Isn't page 1 normally supposed to be rvs?
In post 45, Chronos wrote:I have no idea who that is, but rest assured, if it was someone you didn’t like, they’re not in the game.
Eh, I'm probably one of the few who didn't inherently dislike Yume.
In post 45, Chronos wrote:Mastina, what do you think of the post I quoted? On EP.
Well I voted Espresso.
I'm not convinced Espresso is scum, but Espresso certainly isn't locktown.
You say you're not convinced Espresso is scum but you still leave your vote on him? If you were not convinced a player is scum then wouldn't it make more sense to not vote the player if you're not convinced they are scum? VOTE: mastina
I'm pretty much just trying to get the feel of the game understanding on what's going on right now.
And it was cemented here because of the immediate dissonance. Adorable claimed to be struggling to get a feel of the game and understanding what's going on--but Adorable forced a rather strong omgus-stance on me here (keep in mind, I had already noted I was suspicious of Adorable by this point) and was giving immediate, forced, content and analysis.
Adorable wrote:I'm catching up and it looks like everyone is still at rvs except for TemporalLich who said he declared his rvs vote no more and it looked like he made a serious vote. I couldn't tell if Teacher was still at rvs or if he also did a serious vote.
In post 69, Adorable wrote:I'm catching up and it looks like everyone is still at rvs except for TemporalLich who said he declared his rvs vote no more and it looked like he made a serious vote. I couldn't tell if Teacher was still at rvs or if he also did a serious vote.
I’m not in rvs. Not sure why you assumed that.
Teacher said he was trying to be funny and said he failed. I'm guessing he was directing this at you and that's why I thought you were still at rvs.
This is my first time quoting and I don't know how this will come out.
This was Adorable's first game on site. Notice the difference between her entrance there and her entrance here? I sure do. Her entrance there was far more fluid and organic, which clear analysis done but not forced onto one person. There's no hint of complaining, there's very little in terms of confusion--why was Adorable's first game onsite showing no confusion at a nearly-identical situation to this game, whereas this game after she's had far more experience she displays some?
In post 145, Adorable wrote:Some power roles prefer to play passive so that they don't attract attention to scum and be nightkilled but I have also seen town players scum read a pr sometimes for playing passive. The setup says there are 8 Vanilla Townies, 2 Mafia Goons, and 1 Town Role. Reading through chennisden posts, it looked like he was talking about there being more than 1 Town Role aka pr.
In post 146, Adorable wrote:I meant Town Character and not Town Role. I made a mistake here.
In post 147, Something_Smart wrote:What's your mafia experience, Adorable? Have you played on another site?
I have 1 year 1/2 experience in mafia games and I play on other mafia sites.
In post 174, Adorable wrote:Chennisden has been focusing on wanting to spare players who are being town read and he even admitted he is okay sparing Elements instead of himself and that post of his looked towny. Chennisden has been active and if he was scum, I would think his scum buddy would also spare him right away and I haven't seen anyone doing that. HEAL: chennisden
This was another example of a fluid, natural entrance into the game--a bit later, yes, but that makes it even more relevant. Note the fluidity in Adorable's posting, and how she segues smoothly into contributing. There's no forced analysis, there's no forced stance, and when she does transition into giving game content, she does so with a casual ease. It instantly fits right in.
In post 217, Adorable wrote:Whoever becomes the Student Class President sets up a hood for everyone? I saw Espeonage say this on #6. VOTE: Brian Skies
In post 248, Farkran wrote:TOWN
NorwegianboyEE
Bitmap
Xtoxm
Amrun
Espeonage
Eragon
WonderTime
Yumeko and Kirari
Brian Skies
Adorable
Shadowlesscloud
SCUM
Farkram, is this reads list based from strongest to weakest town/scum read?
Top is strongest town, bottom is strongest scum, but in reality most of the middle names are placed with just slightly more care than a randomizer. All reads are very weak and mostly gut-based at this point - i have listed what i think are notable events so far.
Although by reading further i completely misinterpreted what small town meant. I didn't know it was part of the ms terminology, i just thought it was referring to some ability.
The game started around 17 hours ago and it takes a while for some players to post because of time zone. Right now it seems like we're all getting to know each other for the time being.
In post 282, Espeonage wrote:@bitty: I don't actually watch a lot of anime. So chances are I haven't seen anyone's source material. I'm a fake weeb.
Oh, my waifu isn't from an anime and is non-weeb but can be considered a great waifu.
I never knew our waifu didn't have to be from an anime. When signing up I thought I saw somewhere saying the waifu had to be from an anime.
In post 315, Espeonage wrote:I regularly manipulate my meta, lie, and am elitist as both alignments. I've been known to fake claim from time to time. But like claiming neighbour when mason not claiming a guilty on someone or dumb shit like that.
PEDIT: @Fark
When playing town it's best to be truthful about your role. I guess sometimes town lie about their role is because their role looks like it would be given to a scum player. I remember lying about my role once when I was town because the town role looked like it would be given to a scum player.
That would be maximum trolling by the game host, and considering balancing purposes it doesn't seem likely.
I wouldnt say so. It just would distract us during the first day and basically let scum make their own neighborhood chat. Hell, they could both be completely lying about their roles rn. Instead, one could be a fake mod announcer or something of the sort
On one of my completed games there was a role that could make neighborhood chat and when I looked up that role it says it can be any alignment. It seems like Espeonage and Bitmap were randomly selected by the mod to be elected for Student Class President who will make neighborhood chats.
I highlighted something particularly important here which contrasts Adorable's attitude in that past towngame to her attitude this game. Notice here how, much later, Adorable is still fine casting an rvs vote and isn't too serious? Even when writing this long wallpost of a second post, notice something about it? There's not much analysis to be had. It's more calm, casual, chill chatting. Casual dialog, more than serious scumhunting. Which immediately segues into a rather casual natural townread, one which didn't require her to go out of her way to create a list.
Adorable wrote:I'm slowly catching up and I'm on page 18.
Thanks for the little summary Looker. I haven't been town reading Norway since some of his posts were random. I'm also getting scum vibes from Elements since his reasoning on his votes don't look good.
Adorable wrote:I'm on page 30 right now and I'm also checking recent posts on page 69. I see the top wagons are Norwegian and Hectic. Looker says Norwegian was yesterday's pending lynch until a group of players switched over to Dunnstral and is being suspected for being scum saying his scum buddies swung the wagon. Is this the only reason Norwegian is being scum read for? What's the case on Hectic? I'm at the part where Hectic is scum reading Ankaimus's predecessor for meta.
In post 1448, Hopkirk wrote:We're going with lynch Norway then see who Hectic gets paired up with (cough profii) right?
Honestly, that's been my thought throughout this whole nightphase. We lynch one of these jokers and then take out the romantic couple that remains. The question is do we go for Norwee or Hectic? Norwee is basically ObvScum at this point so makes sense for a lynch on him straight out of the gate but I'm leaning towards the idea of taking out Hectic and then lynching the 100% confirmed ScumCouple that Norwee is on. I'm thinking of this on the incredibly low chance that Hectic is Town, which I don't believe for a second, we can then lynch Norwee the subsequent night and the ScumCouple that's left will be pretty obvious from those remaining.
Free Information
I didn't like the reversal of Hectic and PK for the vote, right at the end. Profii came out of left-field and completely changed my view of him with the move from Norwee to Dunn.
This post makes me want to vote Norwegian now since you said he is 100% confirmed scum and he keeps changing his stance on players. From what I remember Norwegian was town reading Hectic and then scum reads him, he scum reads Profii and then he town reads Profii. Norwegian's votes on other players on day 1 were naked votes and he kept switching his votes around. VOTE: NorwegianboyEE
And this shows the contrast between how Adorable enters as town compared to how she entered as scum, for those who want to point out that Adorable's scumgame was as a replacement so her play being similar this game to the scumgame where she was a replacement, have a comparison for the contrast.
This game where she was a replacement as town has the same casual demeanor as her towngames where she is a player from the start--which is in stark contrast to her play this game where her introduction to the game was stunted, stilted, forced, just artificial.
In post 443, Adorable wrote:I'm slowly catching up right now and I'm on page 15. I checked the current votes and I think alimdia is town. Reason why I think alimdia could be town is because most of the players have been scum reading him or unless he's getting bussed. My read is based on player interactions.
In post 444, Adorable wrote:I did not like Slaxx lol hammer on day 1. I think Slaxx is also town for having second thoughts on alimdia thinking he is town and he did the same thing with ico. It does look like Slaxx has been sorting. I hope I'm right on my reads on those 2 players and I liked how Hectic has been engaging with other players which looked towny.
My poe at the moment would be Gemini, nom, ico, and BBmolla in no particular order. I'll have to iso those 4 players again.
This is another town replacement game which has an immediate contrast between Adorable this game and Adorable that game as a replacement.
Again, to reiterate--Adorable this game has a strong resemblance to her one scumgame, where she was a replacement.
Adorable's other towngames where she started from the beginning do not resemble either her play here or her scumgame as a replacement;
Adorable's other towngames where she was a replacement do not resemble either her play here or her scumgame as a replacement.
Post
Post #360 (isolation #25) » Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:20 pm
Postby mastina »
Ya know what.
Why the fuck am I spoilering that.
People will pass that spoiler over but I think it's important enough to read to be outside of one. Let me change the spoilers then.
In post 359, mastina wrote:Just gonna link to 276 with a solid note of approval as a very good dressing down of Adorable. But to give my own:
In post 74, Adorable wrote:Did I miss rvs and we're all on serious votes now? Two votes on page 2 looked like they were serious votes and some of the votes on page 3 looked like they were rvs.
This was Adorable's entrance into this game. It was more or less complaining and displaying confusion, which she kept generic. On the bottom of page three.
This immediately stuck out to me, because
Spoiler: this was Adorable's entrance into a similar game with similar content:
In post 49, Adorable wrote:It's been a while since I last played a game here. I hope Elements is not scum again and I remember scum Elements was asking questions just like he's doing here.
In post 97, Adorable wrote:VOTE: Elbirn
I don't like how Elbirn votes without providing a reason and this is very frowned upon.
There's no complaining, there's no confusion. There's a fluff post and then a brief, succinct, serious vote.
Purely because until EspressoPatronum ruined it, we were the only three slots to have posted.
Speaking of, VOTE: EspressoPatronum
For ruining the three-man posting townbloc on page one.
This is not really a good vote reason to scum read someone. You scum read Espresso for doing an rvs on page 1 while you were interacting with eyestott and Team on page 1? Isn't page 1 normally supposed to be rvs?
In post 45, Chronos wrote:I have no idea who that is, but rest assured, if it was someone you didn’t like, they’re not in the game.
Eh, I'm probably one of the few who didn't inherently dislike Yume.
In post 45, Chronos wrote:Mastina, what do you think of the post I quoted? On EP.
Well I voted Espresso.
I'm not convinced Espresso is scum, but Espresso certainly isn't locktown.
You say you're not convinced Espresso is scum but you still leave your vote on him? If you were not convinced a player is scum then wouldn't it make more sense to not vote the player if you're not convinced they are scum? VOTE: mastina
I'm pretty much just trying to get the feel of the game understanding on what's going on right now.
And it was cemented here because of the immediate dissonance. Adorable claimed to be struggling to get a feel of the game and understanding what's going on--but Adorable forced a rather strong omgus-stance on me here (keep in mind, I had already noted I was suspicious of Adorable by this point) and was giving immediate, forced, content and analysis.
Adorable wrote:I'm catching up and it looks like everyone is still at rvs except for TemporalLich who said he declared his rvs vote no more and it looked like he made a serious vote. I couldn't tell if Teacher was still at rvs or if he also did a serious vote.
In post 69, Adorable wrote:I'm catching up and it looks like everyone is still at rvs except for TemporalLich who said he declared his rvs vote no more and it looked like he made a serious vote. I couldn't tell if Teacher was still at rvs or if he also did a serious vote.
I’m not in rvs. Not sure why you assumed that.
Teacher said he was trying to be funny and said he failed. I'm guessing he was directing this at you and that's why I thought you were still at rvs.
This is my first time quoting and I don't know how this will come out.
This was Adorable's first game on site. Notice the difference between her entrance there and her entrance here? I sure do. Her entrance there was far more fluid and organic, which clear analysis done but not forced onto one person. There's no hint of complaining, there's very little in terms of confusion--why was Adorable's first game onsite showing no confusion at a nearly-identical situation to this game, whereas this game after she's had far more experience she displays some?
Spoiler: Example Two
In post 145, Adorable wrote:Some power roles prefer to play passive so that they don't attract attention to scum and be nightkilled but I have also seen town players scum read a pr sometimes for playing passive. The setup says there are 8 Vanilla Townies, 2 Mafia Goons, and 1 Town Role. Reading through chennisden posts, it looked like he was talking about there being more than 1 Town Role aka pr.
In post 146, Adorable wrote:I meant Town Character and not Town Role. I made a mistake here.
In post 147, Something_Smart wrote:What's your mafia experience, Adorable? Have you played on another site?
I have 1 year 1/2 experience in mafia games and I play on other mafia sites.
In post 174, Adorable wrote:Chennisden has been focusing on wanting to spare players who are being town read and he even admitted he is okay sparing Elements instead of himself and that post of his looked towny. Chennisden has been active and if he was scum, I would think his scum buddy would also spare him right away and I haven't seen anyone doing that. HEAL: chennisden
This was another example of a fluid, natural entrance into the game--a bit later, yes, but that makes it even more relevant. Note the fluidity in Adorable's posting, and how she segues smoothly into contributing. There's no forced analysis, there's no forced stance, and when she does transition into giving game content, she does so with a casual ease. It instantly fits right in.
Example Three, outside of spoilers to highlight a quote:
In post 217, Adorable wrote:Whoever becomes the Student Class President sets up a hood for everyone? I saw Espeonage say this on #6. VOTE: Brian Skies
In post 248, Farkran wrote:TOWN
NorwegianboyEE
Bitmap
Xtoxm
Amrun
Espeonage
Eragon
WonderTime
Yumeko and Kirari
Brian Skies
Adorable
Shadowlesscloud
SCUM
Farkram, is this reads list based from strongest to weakest town/scum read?
Top is strongest town, bottom is strongest scum, but in reality most of the middle names are placed with just slightly more care than a randomizer. All reads are very weak and mostly gut-based at this point - i have listed what i think are notable events so far.
Although by reading further i completely misinterpreted what small town meant. I didn't know it was part of the ms terminology, i just thought it was referring to some ability.
The game started around 17 hours ago and it takes a while for some players to post because of time zone. Right now it seems like we're all getting to know each other for the time being.
In post 282, Espeonage wrote:@bitty: I don't actually watch a lot of anime. So chances are I haven't seen anyone's source material. I'm a fake weeb.
Oh, my waifu isn't from an anime and is non-weeb but can be considered a great waifu.
I never knew our waifu didn't have to be from an anime. When signing up I thought I saw somewhere saying the waifu had to be from an anime.
In post 315, Espeonage wrote:I regularly manipulate my meta, lie, and am elitist as both alignments. I've been known to fake claim from time to time. But like claiming neighbour when mason not claiming a guilty on someone or dumb shit like that.
PEDIT: @Fark
When playing town it's best to be truthful about your role. I guess sometimes town lie about their role is because their role looks like it would be given to a scum player. I remember lying about my role once when I was town because the town role looked like it would be given to a scum player.
That would be maximum trolling by the game host, and considering balancing purposes it doesn't seem likely.
I wouldnt say so. It just would distract us during the first day and basically let scum make their own neighborhood chat. Hell, they could both be completely lying about their roles rn. Instead, one could be a fake mod announcer or something of the sort
On one of my completed games there was a role that could make neighborhood chat and when I looked up that role it says it can be any alignment. It seems like Espeonage and Bitmap were randomly selected by the mod to be elected for Student Class President who will make neighborhood chats.
I highlighted something particularly important here which contrasts Adorable's attitude in that past towngame to her attitude this game. Notice here how, much later, Adorable is still fine casting an rvs vote and isn't too serious? Even when writing this long wallpost of a second post, notice something about it? There's not much analysis to be had. It's more calm, casual, chill chatting. Casual dialog, more than serious scumhunting. Which immediately segues into a rather casual natural townread, one which didn't require her to go out of her way to create a list.
Adorable wrote:I'm slowly catching up and I'm on page 18.
Thanks for the little summary Looker. I haven't been town reading Norway since some of his posts were random. I'm also getting scum vibes from Elements since his reasoning on his votes don't look good.
Adorable wrote:I'm on page 30 right now and I'm also checking recent posts on page 69. I see the top wagons are Norwegian and Hectic. Looker says Norwegian was yesterday's pending lynch until a group of players switched over to Dunnstral and is being suspected for being scum saying his scum buddies swung the wagon. Is this the only reason Norwegian is being scum read for? What's the case on Hectic? I'm at the part where Hectic is scum reading Ankaimus's predecessor for meta.
In post 1448, Hopkirk wrote:We're going with lynch Norway then see who Hectic gets paired up with (cough profii) right?
Honestly, that's been my thought throughout this whole nightphase. We lynch one of these jokers and then take out the romantic couple that remains. The question is do we go for Norwee or Hectic? Norwee is basically ObvScum at this point so makes sense for a lynch on him straight out of the gate but I'm leaning towards the idea of taking out Hectic and then lynching the 100% confirmed ScumCouple that Norwee is on. I'm thinking of this on the incredibly low chance that Hectic is Town, which I don't believe for a second, we can then lynch Norwee the subsequent night and the ScumCouple that's left will be pretty obvious from those remaining.
Free Information
I didn't like the reversal of Hectic and PK for the vote, right at the end. Profii came out of left-field and completely changed my view of him with the move from Norwee to Dunn.
This post makes me want to vote Norwegian now since you said he is 100% confirmed scum and he keeps changing his stance on players. From what I remember Norwegian was town reading Hectic and then scum reads him, he scum reads Profii and then he town reads Profii. Norwegian's votes on other players on day 1 were naked votes and he kept switching his votes around. VOTE: NorwegianboyEE
And this shows the contrast between how Adorable enters as town compared to how she entered as scum, for those who want to point out that Adorable's scumgame was as a replacement so her play being similar this game to the scumgame where she was a replacement, have a comparison for the contrast.
This game where she was a replacement as town has the same casual demeanor as her towngames where she is a player from the start--which is in stark contrast to her play this game where her introduction to the game was stunted, stilted, forced, just artificial.
Spoiler: Example Five
In post 443, Adorable wrote:I'm slowly catching up right now and I'm on page 15. I checked the current votes and I think alimdia is town. Reason why I think alimdia could be town is because most of the players have been scum reading him or unless he's getting bussed. My read is based on player interactions.
In post 444, Adorable wrote:I did not like Slaxx lol hammer on day 1. I think Slaxx is also town for having second thoughts on alimdia thinking he is town and he did the same thing with ico. It does look like Slaxx has been sorting. I hope I'm right on my reads on those 2 players and I liked how Hectic has been engaging with other players which looked towny.
My poe at the moment would be Gemini, nom, ico, and BBmolla in no particular order. I'll have to iso those 4 players again.
This is another town replacement game which has an immediate contrast between Adorable this game and Adorable that game as a replacement.
Again, to reiterate--Adorable this game has a strong resemblance to her one scumgame, where she was a replacement.
Adorable's other towngames where she started from the beginning do not resemble either her play here or her scumgame as a replacement;
Adorable's other towngames where she was a replacement do not resemble either her play here or her scumgame as a replacement.
The contrast between them is night and day.
So here's my post reformatted to make sure you don't fucking skip my points.
Now! Obviously. BP, Sujimichi, and Rabid Schnauzer are unlikely to be a trio of a scumteam here. Heck, with it being likely that at least one if not two of {Adorable, Espresso} are scum (tho I do admit I'm going to be guilty of some hypocrisy in liking some of Espresso's content--the reason this is hypocrisy will become evident later when I quote someone else's posts since I admit that the very thing I am saying not to do, contributes to softening up on Espresso), it's probable that only 1-2 of them are scum.
But like.
If you're looking for lurker scumslots.
The slots who've
actually
done fuckall are a far, far, far better place to start than Egix.
Particularly Sujimichi because this is night and day different from any Sujimichi towngame I've ever seen.
Post
Post #362 (isolation #27) » Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:45 pm
Postby mastina »
For the record: I have read everything as of a few hours ago (might be like half a dozen posts on page 15 I haven't read), but obviously I have posts in that timeframe which I need to address.
While I am doing so tho, I can immediately give you this readslist:
Turkey + eyestott
Chronos + Churros + alimidia
Egix96
Titus
EspressoPatronum
BP
Rabid Schnauzer
Sujimichi
Adorable
Turkey is locktown of locktown--not gonna lie, Turkey, I thought you'd be a massive, massive downgrade to your slot from the hydra, but you've surprised me by continuing to be one of the best, sanest, slots in the game to a level that is incredibly refreshing.
eyestott is also pretty much locktown, not just for his publicly-confirmed role but also for his entire approach here. I get what he's doing, where he's coming from, understand it, like what he's doing, and have the unique advantage of being probably one of the only players (only other possible one is Titus) to have played with him before, so have a familiarity with him.
Chronos is not the same level of locktown as they are, but is still someone who I just don't see as scum. Similar applies for Churros and alimidia. I feel that all three (might be a bit unfair to alimidia whose content is more reasonable than the other two) are at the least slightly misguided, but I don't think they're scum. They're so strongly town that I almost moved them up to the next tier.
Egix is a strong townread because I not only like what Egix is doing but also feel like this is Egix's towngame.
Titus is a strong townread because while we're not seeing 100% eye to eye and her votes are in somewhat questionable places, the strong overlap with her perspective on the game compared to mine is an incredibly promising sign.
EspressoPatronum is a "conflicted" read; I had EP as strongly scum and had EP's content as scum-indicative, but EP's more recent content has looked much much better to me, yet I know it's not something that makes EP definitely town and easily could still be from scum.
BP is a slot who has done nothing but cast an empty vote and declared a V/LA--this is somewhat sketchy, but not the most suspicious of our lurkers because it could've been just a nai entrance with real-life shit getting in the way; obviously, I will know more about this slot when there is more to see and I'll have a better idea on that placement on whether the entrance was scummy shit or just bad happenstance.
Rabid Schnauzer had a reasonable enough entrance, but since then has done nothing but coast off of the bigger names talking and has contributed nothing but casting sketchy opportunistic votes.
Sujimichi is lurking and that is not a town Sujimichi even remotely.
And Adorable is just obviously scum here for the lack of naturalness, lack of smoothness, lack of flow, lack of fluency, lack of calmness, lack of being smooth and casual.
I sure can! Not right now, there's a limit to how often I can do it, but it's a repeatable action that I intend to continue using at every opportunity I can. (And yes, it is an activated action, not a passive one. I have to manually trigger it.)
Take a look at Adorable's posting and tell me it isn't forced.
In post 298, Churros wrote:The main reason I'm TR'ing both slots is that I feel both actively invested in solving the game, in a way that it's not just a "solvy post to look busy".
I have a saying.
Effort != Alignment. (This would be the aforementioned hypocrisy in that I admit that part of the reason I am liking EP's posts more is that they have more effort behind them.)
More than that.
Adorable's posts are precisely that--'solvey' posts to look busy, without actually having a natural fluidity to them.
Read my post 360 in its full to see the notable contrast between Adorable as town in every towngame of hers previously, and Adorable of this game, and how Adorable as scum is a dead-ringer to this game.
Adorable as town has an aura of casualness to her. She's fluid, she's got this natural flow to her content which comes across as incredibly good.
Adorable this game has been forcing after forcing. There's an aggression to her that's utterly absent from her towngames, but which was the defining trait of her scumgame. This is an Adorable who has been forward, who has been pushing hard, rather than going with the flow.
Adorable as town is like a leaf on a river, drifting along with the flow.
Adorable this game is a rock in that river, cutting through it, unmoving, forcing the river to go around it. A trait she has displayed in her completed scumgame, but not a trait present in literally any of her towngames.
Hey can you really blame me? I did skim the rules to see if there were any special mechanics that would make me not want to stay in a game I didn't sign up for but nothing of that sort stood out to me and most rulesets are pretty much identical and the tidbit about your role was a small easily-missed detail.
In post 366, eyestott wrote:Pretty sure that Mastina now thinks that STRQ and I are both the role flavourers, which is why she offers to townbloc with us in 18.
Nah, not Turkey's slot. You, yes, got the meaning immediately, but Turkey's slot was an instant lock for the townbloc because if you look at page one it is painfully transparently obvious that you two are town. Like, you just have that instant sort of :vibe:. Role had nothing to do with it. Just the sort of instantly locked townbloc that you just...get sometimes.
I am telling you.
There is a night and day difference between Adorable's play in this game and every towngame of hers previously, where her play this game is a dead-ringer to her scumgame.
Even if we disregard the meta--which is a fucking stupid idea but sure let's humor it--Adorable has tripped multiple newbscum tells and multiple alarm bells that are irrelevant to her meta and have purely to do with play that would be tripping alarm bells from any player, even you, doing them. Things literally any player on site would do, and I would scumread them for doing it.
I've explained why 74 is a suspicious entrance. It is an artificial post that clashes with the rest of the game. It is out of place, displaying confusion in a tone that says it's a complaint, and does nothing to try and fix it.
I've explained why 112 is a suspicious start to the game. It is not only omgus'ing her main attacker (me), but also forcing content onto me, and disregarding all other posters in the game and giving nothing. (Of note, most of Adorable's "scumhunting" this game has been hyper-aggressive hyper-specific points that were forced, and if you want me to link to other instances of this I can.) It is self-evidently a stretch and is something Adorable forced for the sake of the read. To have reasons match what she wanted to push, and that push was on someone who found her suspect.
You might think newbies wouldn't push me as scum; they can and do. Pushing me as scum might not be the smartest choice, but newbscum aren't always smart enough to know it's not the smartest choice. You might think that they'd be too intimidated, but I was already scumreading Adorable. When I was already scumreading the slot, there's already intimidation and panic in it. When you have someone scumreading you that is a known, respected player, and you know that scumread is correct, and you are a newer player, what is a common response to it?
That's right--to attack them back. To omgus them. That was literally what the original basis of omgus as a scumtell was, the theory that scum would panic-attack their attacker.
But let's go beyond those two posts, shall we?
In post 115, Adorable wrote:I'm scum hunting and you're going to have to elaborate on the scum read.
This is a classical newbscum post where they insist that they are scumhunting, and do the 'why me = fry me' thing of asking why they are being scumread.
In post 168, Adorable wrote:So your scum read on me is because I played different than I did in that UPick game I played with you? This was my 3rd game I played here and players new to the forum change their playstyle. I don't like how your scum read on me is because I'm playing different and your play right now reminds me of scum Yumeko Kirari from that Waifu game when they were scum reading a town player who played different from their other town game and I also did not like the omgus you did on me.
I've already shown you why Adorable's claim here is false--her townplay in every single previous towngame of hers was nearly identical. If you look at any given towngame of hers, it is nearly identical to any other given towngame of hers, and yet her play here is different from those, so her insistence on her play being different, having evolved, is just an outright fabrication because her play
isn't
different in different towngames of hers, but IS different this game.
Beyond that, the "you remind me of when X did Y" thing is a trait that I'd expect to be a minor scumtell. 60-40, as in, 40% of the time yes it does come from town but 60% of the time it's a scum tactic, to try and frame actions in a light where they can paint their opposition as something that's easier for them to defend against.
In post 173, Adorable wrote:And my town game is still the same I'm doing here. You scum reading me for playing different is a bad way to scum way a player. Scum hunting is more about figuring out a player's objective.
What happened to her play being different, as she claimed earlier? She changed her story here. In 168, she said "I've played more games now, I've changed", but 173 is saying that she's the same. (She isn't.) Also want to point out that by this point I had already explained that my case on her wasn't meta and her framing it as purely being meta is also a strawman.
In post 198, Adorable wrote:I know that staying silent as scum is better. It's better to stay silent as scum so that way they don't attract attention but I am town and as town there were some posts that were not clear to me that needed to be answered and I did not want to ignore them.
Funnily enough, for someone who says staying silent as scum is better, Adorable has stayed awful silent! I don't mean in terms of total posts. I mean in terms of giving reads. Of the twelve players in this game, how many has she actually given a
read
on?
She scumreads me. Okay. Who else does she have a read on? She's asked questions to others, but like.
Where are Adorable's reads on any players in the game other than me?
At the time 198 was posted, there were none. None. Not a single non-mastina read. She asked questions, sure, but she didn't state a read on Team Hydra, she didn't state a read on Titus, she didn't state a read on
anyone
outside of a scumread on me. It's not until 206 that she votes Team Hydra, and it isn't until 313 that she states a (rather opportunistic) scumread on eyestott.
She has given a total of three reads this entire game--an OMGUS'd scumread on me; an OMGUS'd scumread on Team hydra; an OMGUS'd scumread on eyestott. She's not provided a single read outside of the players who have voted her.
So that sounds an awful lot like staying silent and it sounds an awful lot like not actually scumhunting to me.
Adorable can claim the case on her is all meta (it's not) all she wants. Adorable can claim that the meta case on her is wrong (it's not) all she wants. Adorable can claim that she's being OMGUS'd (she's the one who's done the OMGUS'ing) all she wants. Adorable can claim that she's giving content when as scum the ideal play would be to not give it all she wants (when she's not giving content and is fitting the profile she says scum would). Adorable can claim that she's scumhunting (when she's really not) all she wants.
But at a certain point you gotta face the facts and realize that as much as she might claim the above to be true, they aren't actually the case and when you actually look at her actions it becomes clear she's just scum.
I'm not surprised to be honest. I was actually afraid of it. I knew pushing her that hard might cause her to do that, which fucking sucks because I DO think that she's scum and because I'm pretty sure the slot's scum I need to lynch it to win. Ah well.
The replacement will probably make her alignment more apparent.
On that note--Sujimichi is much better and is at the VERY least not below the nullline right now, miiiiiight be above it but will need to think about it some more.
Post
Post #539 (isolation #32) » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:57 am
Postby mastina »
In post 537, Titus wrote:Hey Pisskop. Convince me you're not scum?
Hey Titus, you'll be pleased to know that you'll require absolutely zero convincing from me that pisskop is scum--and furthermore that there's literally only a few reasons keeping me from power-fucking-voting him (so consider my vote on him in spirit), those being,
1: Adorable's a stronger scumread,
2: I really want the Adorable lynch,
3: The Adorable wagon has momentum and I don't want to kill said momentum,
4: And is currently a much much larger wagon compared to the nonexistent votes on pisskop.
But like.
I get it now clear as day and agree with you.
pisskop here is absolutely just outright complete and total, scum.
Post
Post #588 (isolation #33) » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:52 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 575, momo wrote:3. @Mastina, who on this list have you successfully scum hunted either recently or consistently?
The Turkey slot, maaaaaaaybe Espresso (but I would say probably no to be honest), Titus, alimidia (admittedly small sample size butstill), traditionally-eyestott (but since he's been gone from the site for years, you can throw that out the window), Egix, Adorable (admittedly small sample size butstill), and pisskop. All of them I have had pretty good reads on.
I meant to post a readslist yesterday but forgot to follow through on it--locktown of locktown tier now, up there with eyestott and Turkey.
This, purely off of one factor.
Titus's push on pisskop is not a bus.
pisskop is 100% completely and totally absolutely scum.
Ergo, Titus is town.
In post 555, alimdia wrote:So you think Titus is right about BP+EP or just BP (pisskop)?
She's 100% right about BP/pisskop.
I currently don't think she's right about EP, but it's not like EP is locktown. EP is still very much, null, and in the (very, very small) poe pool (of four, maaaaaaaayyybe five, players). So she
could
be right about both. I don't think she is right now, but I also acknowledge there's a rather significant chance she could be.
In post 574, momo wrote:The only path forward today is to VOTE: Rabid Schnauzer.
So I actually like momo's case on Rabid because I was already scumreading the slot and these are good reasons for Rabid to be scum.
I don't think it makes momo any more likely to be town, I think the most likely case is that momo is bussing a scumbuddy both because he sees his slot is in a bad spot, he sees his scumbuddy isn't being very town, and he thinks the bus will help, and because to my memory of momo (which is, admittedly, rusty) I remember him being incredibly bus-happy as scum.
But regardless of his alignment, I'll thank him for the good case on Rabid and regardless of his alignment I might actually sheep it. (Because if he's scum, he's probably bussing; if he's town, he's probably right.)
Basically, there's three slots I will vote today:
pisskop, Rabid, or momo.
The momo wagon looks like its momentum is fading, so that means we can afford to let momo live through today, which leaves pisskop or Rabid.
pisskop is the stronger scumread, but this has momentum: VOTE: Rabid.
Post
Post #669 (isolation #35) » Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:18 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 599, alimdia wrote:you know i've seen like so many town ppl like rabid who basically do nothing but are town.
Sure. But,
1: Town players having done it does not mean it is not a scummy-as-fuck tactic. Being a lurkfuck is pro-scum. Doing nothing, being passive, being a lurker, gives the town no information to work with, and this is a particularly good thing for the scum when we have town players who insist on lynching for information rather than just lynching to hit the players most likely to be scum. (Not gonna name names. )
2: In the case of Rabid specifically, it is his scum meta--doubly so now that I know that he's an alt of Persivul.
I am intimately familiar with Persivul's meta as both town and scum.
This is his scumplay through and through.
This is also the scumplay of Rabid, as others have demonstrated, so it can't be attributed to Persivul playing on a different account. His play is identical to scumgames on Rabid and nothing like towngames on Rabid.
In post 599, alimdia wrote:Momentum is BS. if you vote egix that has momentum too
Do tell how a player with one singular vote (who I am not scumreading) would have momentum behind it.
The fact that Rabid's wagon has gotten to L-2 is proof enough that it
does
have momentum.
In post 602, Egix96 wrote:This is an unsatisfying progression coming from that whole wallcase you made on Adorable.
I can explain it very very very simply.
I only have one vote in the game--one vote. I can only vote one player at a time.
There are three scum in the game--three, not one. I can only vote one scum player at a time, in spite of there being three of them. I can, and have, been casing on all three, applying pressure to all three, but votes are the strongest form of pressure and I only have one to use between the three of them.
Refusing to budge my vote on one scum, when there are two other scum, is a good way to guarantee that,
1: I am accused, unjustifiably, of tunneling in on a single player,
2: And preventing us from lynching a player who is actually scum, because if I am dividing the votes between the scum player of my choice and the scum player of the rest of the town's choice, then the town is divided between two scum candidates resulting in neither getting lynched at the end of the day.
Thus.
I need to be willing to compromise, be fluid, be willing to switch my votes between those scumreads.
Moving my vote off of them doesn't mean I don't think they're scum--it means that I think someone else who is scum is more likely to be able to be lynched.
In post 602, Egix96 wrote:So I see, you DO actually think p*kop is scum, and it wasn't just something you said to get a rise out of him... Perhaps if you had made that clear in the first place then the momentum might have been there. Just saying.
Mate if you thought I was saying that to get a rise out of him that's on you, not me, because I made it crystal clear that I was scumreading pisskop for real--the BP slot was always in my POE pool, and then pisskop replaced in and did fuckall of nothing.
Seriously, try an iso of pisskop and see what he's done this game.
Literally nothing.
In post 608, Rabid Schnauzer wrote:How often does that D1 flash wagon hit scum? Less than random I'd bet.
Nice try trying to dismiss the wagon on you as a flashwagon rather than a wagon on a player who has been a scumfuck.
Titus, "I'm willing to vote X" isn't them actually voting X.
It is the quintessential scum distancing without bussing maneuver.
pisskop isn't actually voting Rabid nor will pisskop be likely to. It's a move designed to do precisely what you're doing--to make players chicken out from wagoning because they think that the 'willingness' to join makes the slot being wagoned not scum. It's literally scumplay 101.
If you had, then you'd INSTANTLY know, instantly, that this is not pisskop as town. pisskop as town is night and day different from his play this game. The pisskop I know is not a fucking lurksack that does fuckall--yet that is
precisely
the contributions he has given this game.
ANY player doing what pisskop has done would be suspicious--it being PISSKOP having done it, just cements it, reinforcing that it is just pure scumplay on his part.
In post 654, Churros wrote: I get thinking pisskop the lurker slot might be scum, I don't get having 100% confidence on it though and keep voting in other wagons. Both Titus/Mastina scum read pisskop and everyone is hedging on the slot being scum, but no one takes the initiative to push him directly?
As I explain above--I only have one vote. I can't vote all of momo, pisskop, and Rabid at the same time. I have to choose where to vote between the three, and I am doing my best to take my best educated guess, as to which of the three is the slot which is best to place the vote on.
The wagon on momo has faded to be nonexistent--voting there feels like it'd be a vanity vote, not doing any good.
pisskop doesn't have any votes--voting there would be a vanity vote, not doing any good.
I can't push all three hard at the same time. Believe me I want to, but I can't split the town. I need to try and focus the town on one of them.
Just going to point out:
We wagoned Adorable up to L-2, and then, we let the slot off the hook without claiming.
We wagoned Rabid up to L-2, and then, again, we are potentially risking letting the slot off the hook without claiming.
Later into the game. On D2, D3, D4.
Y'all are going to look back on that situation and go.
"Why the fuck didn't we force them to claim."
And neither BP nor yourself mentioned this until now...why?
I have a theory about that, and it's identical to this one:
In post 689, Rabid Schnauzer wrote:FWIW I'm a 1X neighborizer. Since I'm town it's worthless per se, but I thought that I'd save it and at least be able to check if someone later claimed ascetic or hider or something.
Post
Post #729 (isolation #37) » Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:47 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 695, EspressoPatronum wrote:Wouldn't scum in RS's shoes claim loyal neighbourizer to later fake a guilty? His plain neighbourizer claim seems more town imo.
It's not the role claimed which frankly is (probably) nai (although in this game specifically I have minor reasons to suspect it as a scum role), it's the way it was done.
Role != alignment.
Confirmed role means its role is confirmed; it does not confirm the alignment of the role and doesn't even confirm that the roleclaim is entirely truthful. Persivul successfully neighborizing someone would confirm that his role has the ability to neighborize someone at least once; it does nothing to confirm that he is a oneshot neighborizer. (For instance, a mafia JOAT with strongman, ninja, neighborizer, could be his role, as an example. It could be something more niche, too.)
And even if it was confirmed that he's legit just a 1x neighborizer. Even if he was rolecopped as being a 1x neighborizer--again, confirmed role != confirmed alignment because there's nothing about 1x neighborizer which screams "this is a town role".
Post
Post #730 (isolation #38) » Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:49 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 724, Rabid Schnauzer wrote:Seems to me that when a case against you is based in whole or in part on meta, then meta is perfectly reasonable to use in defense.
Considering that I didn't even know you were Persivul and was scumreading you for your play this game before even knowing your past games or past identity, it sure is bold of you to declare that the case on you is reliant on meta and in no way shape or form something based around your play.
Post
Post #1663 (isolation #39) » Mon May 04, 2020 8:42 am
Postby mastina »
Wait the treestumper wasn't one-shot?
...Oof.
That's NASTY against a town.
Oneshot to force an unexpected lylo was fine; being able to use the ability the next day when the town thinks it's no longer in lylo is a big oof since I don't think the town lynches Egix here if they knew it was going to endgame them.
Post
Post #1673 (isolation #40) » Mon May 04, 2020 9:09 am
Postby mastina »
Town 1-shot Neighborizer (weak role that does nothing)
Town Personal Beam Splitter (duplicator/redirector)
Town Informed Role Flavorer
Town Divine Protector (super-rolestopper)
Town Moonlight Dancer (basically fruit vendor)
Mafia Chillbreather (treestumper)
Town Inspector (basically original-motion-detector, aka, the weaker-voyeur)
Town Mailman
Town Mason
Town Role Mason (1x ?super?-rolecop*)
Town Flavor Revealer
Mafia Jack-of-all-trades (Roleblock, Rolecop, Mailman)
Mafia 1-shot Astral Demon (basically ninja/strongman)
*I am assuming that the rolecop in question was learning their role and alignment, not just the role, making it a cop+rolecop rather than just a rolecop. Because I am being generous in assuming this game had any semblance of an attempt at balancing it, and just-rolecop throws that illusion out the window altogether.
The town had no power here whatsoever. The closest the town had to an actual role was the divine protector--a role to stop nightkills.
For the rest:
Beam Splitter sounds like a cool OP rule, but what roles in the game actually benefit from this? The town 1x neighborizer getting a larger neighborhood? Not any benefit. The chillbreather getting an extra victim? Can cause mafia to instantly endgame the town. Cause the inspector to get a second worthless result because the beam splitter would always cause the second result to trigger? Send mail to a second person? Cause the mafia to rolecop two people instead of one? If the astral demon doesn't count as a factional action, duplicate the astral demon kill?
None of those give the town any value and the mafia ones give the mafia an edge.
The only actions the beam splitter duplicating being good are the one-shot super-rolecop (assuming it is a super-rolecop) and the super-rolestop.
So the beam splitter has very little utility and does almost nothing for the town.
One-shot neighborizer is a worthless role because neighborizers are not actually a town power role; they give the town nothing.
My role was a glorified fruit vendor--it did nothing.
The town inspector was a worthless role--it did nothing. Its only purpose is to verify players targeted who they said they did, which has a less than .01% chance of catching a scum lying. (It requires that NOT ONLY the scum fakeclaim, but be caught fakeclaiming, AND nobody having targeted the player in question, AND requiring that the lack of a visit cannot be explained by a blocked action. It'd take a perfect storm. The inspector seeing nobody visit the target, scum deciding to fakeclaim having visited the target and gotten a result back via their fakeclaim involving investigation. Mafia fakeclaim a role that doesn't get results, town targeting the same player the mafia did, mafia not fakeclaiming, mafia not fakeclaiming the target? All of those make any chance of a guilty drop to 0%.)
Mailman is essentially a neighborizer in strength--that is to say, in the NRG this is a sort of role that for the town would be considered as close to absolute zero power in a game as you can get without actually being zero power. The weakest of weak roles for a town to have.
A town flavorer, a role confirmed to be in the game but not alignment-confirmed, who was explicitly not adding any town power.
And a town flavor-revealer, again, not a role that adds any power.
The entirety of the town's power then boils down to 2.5 roles:
The super-rolestopper to stop one of the mafia's night actions (unable to stop both the same night so one would always go through), and the one-shot cop, plus the masonry.
3x Masons vs. an all-goon scumteam in an open would be balanced, but in a closed is ever so slightly scumsided.
Two masons versus an absolutely stacked scumteam with every ability to shut the town down via a strongman kill, a roleblock, the ability to peg a key town PR with the rolecop (say, nailing the town mason-cop N1), is absurdly scumsided.
Add in the rolestopper, and it is still absurdly scumsided.
For the town to win this, they would need to have played perfectly:
The super-rolecop would need to target the duplicator and get two investigations;
The super-rolestopper would need to target the duplicator and keep them alive;
The duplicator would need to correctly target the scum's nightkill to duplicate the save onto them;
The masons would need to not die;
The town would need to peg the role flavorer as a town role;
The town would need to peg the moon howler as a town role;
The town would need to peg the super-rolestopper as a town role.
If the town did
all
of that, they would have a
chance
at winning:
Two conftown from the masons, conftowning the role duplicator and their N1 target for four conftown; having the super-rolestopper as not investigated yet treated as town anyway for a fifth; identifying both the public roles as being town for 7 town.
And
even under those ideal circumstances
.
Even under those circumstances where THE TOWN CORRECTLY IDENTIFIES SEVEN OF THE TEN TOWN MEMBERS.
The town could
still
end up losing if they mislynched the three non-conftown town due to the mafia treestumper triggering a premature lylo.
IN THE PERFECT WORLD WHERE THE TOWN DOES EVERYTHING RIGHT,
Post
Post #1678 (isolation #41) » Mon May 04, 2020 9:17 am
Postby mastina »
Granted--I believe that the town pegging the role flavorer and the moon howler as town roles was something that was likely to happen more often than not, and to be fair,
did
happen.
But it wasn't guaranteed to have happened (as the suspicion on eyestott post-claim showed). And my point still stands. The town might've made a misplay this game--but it was a misplay they had no way of realistically anticipating would end the game. There was little warning of a premature lylo, so the town had no way of realistically knowing that they were making a misplay, and even
without
a misplay, even with picture-perfect townplay where the town does everything right, again, they can still lose the game in a situation no town would expect to have lost.
And it requires that the scum make sub-optimal choices and the town makes optimal ones, every step of the way. Town make a single misstep, or scum make a single unstoppable correct move, and the town just...never wins this game.
Post
Post #1680 (isolation #42) » Mon May 04, 2020 9:23 am
Postby mastina »
In post 1675, TemporalLich wrote:Role Mason grabbed role but not alignment, I rejected the Alignment Mason in the design phase of the setup creation which could grab alignment but not role for fear it was too powerful (in hindsight, that was a terrible idea).
Oh, well in that case:
Even more absurdly scumsided.
Because even if the town mason was a fully full alignment cop--not one-shot, not a rolecop that doesn't get alignments.
Town still isn't too strong.
If the town mason were a fully full alignment cop, ungated in shots, ungated in power, then the town might have a chance at winning this game. I'd rate it as maybe even 45%!
As-is, though, town had less than a 10% chance at winning.
This game was pretty much the best-case scenario for the town where the town used their roles just about as well as they possibly could have--I ate an early N1 nightkill; Eve managed to eat a nightkill after lynching a scum; eyestott did become fairly obviously town. The town did almost everything right, and still lost.
Yes, the town did mislynch three times, and critically one of those times was a key important town PR to their chances of winning, so the town didn't play absolutely picture-perfect. But the town still used their roles almost to the maximum, with many overperforming the expectations of those roles, and yet even overperforming, couldn't get a win.
Post
Post #1681 (isolation #43) » Mon May 04, 2020 9:26 am
Postby mastina »
In post 1679, Bingle wrote:Thanks for the game, TL. I enjoyed what little I was there for.
Oh, the game was absurdly fun, of course.
It just wasn't in any way remotely balanced.
The roles were cool, inventive, neat, and the game was a blast.
It just wasn't even remotely balanced and the way the town lost due to a mechanic that they had no reason to believe was in place, feels like it cheapens the game.
Post
Post #1697 (isolation #44) » Mon May 04, 2020 10:13 am
Postby mastina »
In post 1684, Bingle wrote:?
Follow the cop is adequately solved by a strongman kill. Also Rolecop. Also Roleblocker.
And also the treestumper. Even if you can't treestump the cop due to the rolestopper (and that's an 'if'; you most likely
could
which prevents them from investigating--heck, because the treestump doesn't
kill
, the scum treestumper could argue that their targeting of the cop is to keep them alive!), you can treestump the rolestopper and then, bam! No protection for the cop at all.
When scum have three methods to break follow-the-cop, with a rolecop to help aid said three actions break it even faster, follow the cop is not exactly going to break the game in favor of the town.
