| Target | Wagon |
|---|---|
Allomancer (3) | nomnomnom (211), The Limit Does Not Exist (213), GuiltyLion (229) |
Eve (3) | Auro (330), BBmolla (354), acryon (378) |
acryon (1) | Allomancer (215) |
BBmolla (1) | Eve (361) |
Not Voting (3) | SausasaurusRex (219), skitter30 (231), Karnage (299) |
honestly I don't wanna dig through old games and find something that feels like a convincing example, it's not easily searchable and I feel I can find some approximate examples that aren't going to be exactly the same and then we're both gonna just debate whether it's close enough to this instance for you to accept it as something I might do as townIn post 350, Auro wrote:1. Do you recall any previous instance of directly scumreading someone when there's -a lack of explanation- instead of asking for one?
3. It's a mindset thing. I disagree that you would play the coasting scumgame you did in that Newbie here for a variety of reasons, lol. Unless you're saying this level of involvement is outside your scum "range" entirely, this would be a fruitless comparison.plus, here I am engaging you myself. But fine: I'll hold off on my push, and see how your involvement shapes up.
It's obviously a cost benefit regarding the evidence. Here the difference in contexts muddles reliability, of course I'd expect scum!you here to behave much differently from there anyway.
Do u think u have at this point?In post 501, GuiltyLion wrote:I plan to effort here to a degree that it's usually really-hard-if-not-impossible for me to replicate as scum.
I was asking cause I thought it might be fruitful to compare your reactions to pressure across a few town games, but since this is an old game + this example looks like still a mostly RVS wagon not grounded in many heavy accusations, I'm not really getting anything useful out of thisIn post 351, Allomancer wrote:viewtopic.php?p=10650012#p10650012In post 339, GuiltyLion wrote:can you link me to a town game or two where you were a significant D1 wagon?In post 331, Allomancer wrote:I'm not really too concerned about it. I feel like every game I've played lately, whether I've been town or scum, has lead to an early day 1 wagon on me.In post 314, acryon wrote:@Allomancer When you come back, what are your thoughts on how your wagon has progressed and how people have reacted to it? Just about everyone, even those outside of it, have responded to it in some way.
This is from a while ago, but I took about a year break from Mafia and just recently started playing again.
honestly I think that I have, that was kinda how the whole discussion started, but I'm willing to acknowledge that to other players who don't know my alignment it may not be that easy to seeIn post 502, skitter30 wrote:Do u think u have at this point?In post 501, GuiltyLion wrote:I plan to effort here to a degree that it's usually really-hard-if-not-impossible for me to replicate as scum.
agree with this post (tho I'm just trusting acryon on the meta) and want to use it to state that acryon is now easily one of my strongest townreadsIn post 403, acryon wrote:I typically don't care about meta much, but I'd have a hard time supporting a lynch with such little content (Sauce).
So I looked at some of his past games, and I have seen stretches of effort and insight, but I've also seen some stretches of non-content like he's done this game. If we didn't have other viable options, I would support a lynch there, but given that I think we do, we should maybe hold off for a little more. I'm not entirely convinced he isn't just being lazy (maybe uninterested if I've being charitable).
the rest of the iso was nullish so I just wanted to be specificIn post 483, skitter30 wrote:what made their last three posts worse than the rest of their iso?
Well, sure. I didn't say it was scummy, just erroneous. I didn't read the posts closely but it looks like lilith made a mistake, which happens but of course should be avoided as much as possible.In post 491, skitter30 wrote:i mean, that's kinda what your slot did here too but ok
Really? Have we played together recently other than in PYP? Because I was hella passive in that game.In post 489, skitter30 wrote:and smart is also a lot more passive than i'd expect him to be
Yeah I fucking got it, there's no need to beat a dead horse... My reading comprehension isn't the best when I'm burnt out, mentally drained, and attempting to write posts in between work calls. If you caught up on the thread, you should see I already responded to the accusation that I was strawmanning in 417 and 437, and I still believe that I wasn't misrepresenting anything. Actually, I'll just quote them for you:In post 487, skitter30 wrote:... this is also a strawman, this is what they actually said:In post 381, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:You’re saying that on page 16 we don’t have enough info to lynch, but you were happy to say that Eve should be lynched back on page 9 for even less content than Allomancer has as of 371. What’s up with that?In post 371, SausasaurusRex wrote:I don’t think we should follow through with the allomancer lynch. Whilst his ISO isn’tgood, it’s not terrible either. I think the best course of action is to scumhunt a little more first, to see if anyone else seems more scummy. We have a deadline, and we may as well use all that time. If allomancer still seems the scummiest after that time, then we can lynch him. But my point is that we shouldn’t lynch him yet.
- Smarter
he's saying that *if* she doesn't play better, she's correct lynchIn post 219, SausasaurusRex wrote:Her posts don’t seem very towny, but I’m willing to overlook that as early-game banter if her play gets better. If it does not, I think she is the correct day 1 lynch, unless someone else does something worse.
that's not the same as saying she should be lynched
In post 417, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:I already apologized for misreading 219. Unfortunately I can’t delete posts or make people ignore posts that I already agreed are invalid based on my misunderstanding
I was clearly referring to lack of reads in 371 and the 0 progression shown there even though there was an additional 150 posts since your previous post
Literally all you said of substance (ie related to actual people in this game and not theory) in 371 was re: not lynching Allomancer
I don’t think I’ve misrepresented anything here. Sure, I’ve drawn conclusions about your motivations but I’m fairly sure that’s called scumhunting. If Allomancer is the only person you mention in your first post in 7 pages, that shows me that your primary motivation in writing that post was about Allomancer.
- Smarter
If you still think I was strawmanning, let's hear your reasons for it.In post 437, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:Literally no one is or was saying we should lynch right now. The Allomancer wagon had already gone back down to 3 votes by the time you posted, so 1) we weren’t even in danger of lynching too early, and 2) Allomancer in particular was not in real danger of being instalynched, especially since an Eve wagon was also building at that time.
Yet you still chose to focus your first post in 7 pages on Allomancer being lynched too early. Please note what I said -I am focusing on the parts where you actually mention a person who is in this game, because I don’t count the game theory part as being AI. Your post doesn’t mention anyone else. (Which is where my questions, “where are your reads? Your pushes?” etc come from in the first place).
Once again - I don’t think I’m strawmanning here. I conclude that your motivation behind writing that post is driven by a desire for Allomancer to not be lynched based on the above.
How is this different from my response to his post? Sounds like you're saying the same things I did. Who's strawmanning whom now?In post 485, skitter30 wrote:this all at once sounds: svs, wishy-washy, and throwing in platitudes to try to prevent an allo lynch (which isn't imminently happening anyways ...)In post 371, SausasaurusRex wrote:I don’t think we should follow through with the allomancer lynch. Whilst his ISO isn’tgood, it’s not terrible either. I think the best course of action is to scumhunt a little more first, to see if anyone else seems more scummy. We have a deadline, and we may as well use all that time. If allomancer still seems the scummiest after that time, then we can lynch him. But my point is that we shouldn’t lynch him yet.
Way to immediately back off of your claim that sausasaurus was scum based on his 371. You now turn around and say that you're totally fine with that slot. How did you get from "this is svs, look at him trying to stop the allomancer lynch" to "sausasaurus rex is fine and limit is being disingenuous" even though youIn post 489, skitter30 wrote:i think they're being disingenuous, yeahIn post 408, Auro wrote:Really? You don't think they could be reading things wrongly, Rex?In post 406, SausasaurusRex wrote:Whilst I feel that TheLimitDoesNotExist is clearly mafia
You're 100% sure they're being disingenuous and not that there's a miscommunication somewhere?
sauce is fine, i think
i think he seems to be a 'slow and steady' sort of player who wants to utilize the full time as much as possible, which is why he told us to slow our horses on allo and even now he's saying that he isn't advocating a limit lynch right now
his allo push was bad but he exhibited the same mindset in ... all three of his stated lynch/scum options (eve, allo, and limit), so i think that this is just how he approaches the game and how he feels about the best way to use our time
smart is shading your townbloc strategy, and smarter is misrepping people to push them
and smart is also a lot more passive than i'd expect him to be
once again....In post 490, skitter30 wrote:or at the very least, is repeatedly pontificating about how bad a person's post is and framing things in a negative light in order to get their point acrossIn post 489, skitter30 wrote:and smarter is misrepping people to push them
203 is the first time I explicitly mentioned it, in particular based on 201 where I would not expect scum to question being placed in a townbloc, but I've been townleaning/townreading him for the majority of the game. I revisited this read in 250, basically wanting Karnage to get more activity in so I could see if I needed to update my earlier read; and his series of posts in 298, 299, 301, 305, and 306 helped solidify that townread for me.In post 488, skitter30 wrote:when did you form this read?In post 386, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:Karnage’s tone is obvtown
Another question for you, skitter:In post 485, skitter30 wrote:this all at once sounds: svs, wishy-washy, and throwing in platitudes to try to prevent an allo lynch (which isn't imminently happening anyways ...)In post 371, SausasaurusRex wrote:I don’t think we should follow through with the allomancer lynch. Whilst his ISO isn’tgood, it’s not terrible either. I think the best course of action is to scumhunt a little more first, to see if anyone else seems more scummy. We have a deadline, and we may as well use all that time. If allomancer still seems the scummiest after that time, then we can lynch him. But my point is that we shouldn’t lynch him yet.
- SmarterIn post 515, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:Another question for you, skitter:In post 485, skitter30 wrote:this all at once sounds: svs, wishy-washy, and throwing in platitudes to try to prevent an allo lynch (which isn't imminently happening anyways ...)In post 371, SausasaurusRex wrote:I don’t think we should follow through with the allomancer lynch. Whilst his ISO isn’tgood, it’s not terrible either. I think the best course of action is to scumhunt a little more first, to see if anyone else seems more scummy. We have a deadline, and we may as well use all that time. If allomancer still seems the scummiest after that time, then we can lynch him. But my point is that we shouldn’t lynch him yet.
Who is the other "s" in "svs"?
I just saw thisIn post 513, GuiltyLion wrote:Molla you said the Allo wagon looks pretty town but you don't see the reasons for it, why aren't you doing more to resolve those feelings there?
In post 213, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:100% agree with this, which makes me feel better about the nom slot as well.In post 211, nomnomnom wrote:according to my own vig-minded scumhunting I would be shooting Allo right now so I should probably VOTE: Allo
This lack of commitment on every single subject so far is concerning and feels like scum who doesn't want to commit to reads just yet.
I'd definitely like to see something from Allomancer that isn't related to stuff from 6 pages ago, given there's been a lot more content than when he last posted. He just picked out a bunch of random and mostly irrelevant pieces of posts from people to respond to. I especially would like to hear thoughts about the GL vs. acryon stuff, given that he seemed to have been defending acryon before and is now shading acryon (and btw, copied my reasoning for said shade). I mean, this also applies to him - makes a post to throw some shade on acryon who is arguably currently getting the most shade in the game, then immediately drops it and doesn't attempt to engage acryon whatsoever. Shade with no bite.
Allomancer, at a minimum I'd like to hear reads from you.
Alas, my other head is apparently MIA so I am claiming my vote rights now.
VOTE: Allomancer
- Smarter
In post 336, GuiltyLion wrote:yeah this is extremely on pointIn post 291, nomnomnom wrote:I think I disagree. That post in particular shows a nuanced thought over a player. If a scum isn't a stream-of-consciousness machine, they mostly produce content that is fairly one sided on people and tend to categorize as GOOD, BAD or WISHY-WASHY. Producing a post that goes like "I heavily disagree with what you say and here's why... but I think I townread you" takes either a townie mind, or a scum that understands how to properly replicate that kind of nuance, which is honestly hard as fuck.
If we're talking about suspect timing, I'd recommend checking the progression of Allo regarding Eve and Acryon. Suddenly understood eve was shitposting when I said it was shitposting, and suddenly produces a real vote and thought on a player when I accused him of not doing that, on a player everyone more or less suspected previously. That timing and progression is just really bad. I think that the wagon forming really fast is just due to conversational missteps from Allo rather than having scum support. That's my inner feeling on this one.
I didn't say it but to +1 and summarize, the thing I disliked most from Allo was the late-ness to it's acryon vote. It was shading acryon but then only voted it once pressured by both Limit and nomnom. The unvote without going somewhere new, even when the juicy acryon wagon was right there, suggests to me Allo isn't interested in voting scumreads.
In post 445, nomnomnom wrote:Allo has still not generated pro-town content ever since he was pushed and only threw shade at Eve. This is still the best lynch today.
he feels really earnest with the "let's not Lynch anyone yet guys" and "TLDNE misrepped me and is certain mafia" takes. There's no self-consciousness in his ISO at all. I don't agree with most if not all of what he's said but I do feel that he believes in it.In post 518, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:Hold up, how did you end up with townread on Sausasaurus?
- Smarter
