Mini 2136 | City That Never Sleeps [Game over!]

[skitter30]

Do you have a preferred lynch?

I have very few reads actually. You and acryon are my only townreads worthy of the name, and I don't have any scumreads.

So no, not really.

-Smart

yeah so this is kinda what i meant by passive ^

[skitter30]

but she also backed off kinda suddenly without really resolving the issue.

.... that's not really what i did either

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

yeah so this is kinda what i meant by passive ^

I certainly don't disagree with the assessment that I'm passive in this game.

I disagree with the suggestion that being passive is somehow uncharacteristic of my towngame.

-Smart

[skitter30]

Hopefully this makes clear that it's not her attacking me without voting our slot that's my issue, it's the fact that she has repeatedly deflected my attempts to engage with her directly and danced around throwing us shade without actually calling us scummy as if she's hoping someone else will push us.

ok it's getting late and i'm starting to get too tired to figure out how to say this again in a different way that will maybe get across to you, so I'll pick up here tomorrow ^

[skitter30]

i feel like this is a really bad communication issue at this point and i don't really know how else to fix it

[Auro]

Just listen to me pl0x and throw this entire line of conversation out the window, that's how to fix it!

[nomnomnom]

Allo is still not lynched and wallposts all over jesus christ almighty.

[Auro]

Karnage thinks he is likely town, maybe you should talk it out with Karnage first

[nomnomnom]

We have one day left we should be compromising on a slot and I sure am not compromising on Skitt or GL

[Auro]

We have like six days left nom, from the first Votecount

[northsidegal]

Votecount 1.16

Target	Wagon
Allomancer (3)	nomnomnom (211), GuiltyLion (229), Eve (533)
Eve (3)	Auro (330), BBmolla (354), acryon (378)
acryon (1)	Allomancer (215)
GuiltyLion (1)	skitter30 (612)
skitter30 (1)	The Limit Does Not Exist (643)
Not Voting (2)	SausasaurusRex (219), Karnage (299)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-03 00:18:59).

[GuiltyLion]

Besides, do answer: what is odd in Molla's take that I am fine being copped because I can become confirmed town?

this feels like something you want me to answer more than much of the other giant wall stuff, so focusing on this for now:

let's wind back a bit:

Oh, and: Crayon, suppose I am scum, with the devious plan of forming a "townbloc" that lets me slip by.
I have never advocated for being on it myself, for starters. So, at the very least, I must be shoving my buddy in there (otherwise there's a 2/5 chance of a guilty which is just bad strategy).

Do you think I would be expecting town points from you, Skitter, Nomnomnom and GuiltyLion by saying "Sure yeah I can stay off wagon"? Do you think I think that has any payoff for me?

Hell, actually, good thought.

Skitter/GuiltyLion, are you both individually fine with being offwagon? I absolutely am.

Here's where you were saying you're fine being off wagon, and asking Skit/myself whether we'd be okay with that as well. When you asked me that, my thought process was roughly as follows:
1) ultimately I am okay with being in an investigative pool because I'm town
2) However, that's not strictly ideal because if hypothetically I were to be copped it's a waste of a cop shot compared to a world where everyone universally townread me and we used said shot on another slot that would both help me form more accurate reads and actually have a chance at getting a guilty
3) If I demand to be on-wagon because of point 2), it's probably going to just lead to more people scumreading me (also not ideal), is going to make Auro and anyone else who currently suspects me less likely to want to lynch who I want to lynch, and frankly I just don't wanna deal with that potential shitstorm, I think we can win this off of good day play even if a cop shot is hypothetically 'wasted' on me D1

So like, I'm fine with Eve asking this question:

Auro why are you volunteering to be off the wagon when you know you're town?

because I imagine she's operating from many of the same thoughts as I had in point 2), and pushing you on that front. I don't see this as a scummy question.

To which Molla immediately jumps in:

Auro why are you volunteering to be off the wagon when you know you're town?

He could then be confirmed town by the Traffic Analyst

?

which feels like he's kinda
a) not really engaging with any of the thought processes in my point 2, very surface level answer to this question
and
b) answering a question directed at somebody at somebody else, which is always a no-no and a technique scum sometimes employ to have easy avenues to engage with the thread and also earn towncred by buddying townies by defending them.

so Eve then voting him after that also makes sense to me, completely. I don't see a reason to favor a scum!Eve explanation for her question and subsequent vote there when it's so readily available to me to imagine a town one.

[GuiltyLion]

as for one reason why I'm scumreading you, it's pretty bad townplay to vanity vote me here instead of actually taking stances on either of the L-2 or L-3 wagons and I expect better from you for that. scum!skitter last time I played with her similarly ended the first day not being or discussing either of the major wagons of the day

I've given stances on both of them, thank you
also which game was that?

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81510

you gave a stance on Eve previously but you really hadn't said anything of substance about Allo in a long time, you were suspicion of him but then reversed that read to 'maybe he's town' because I voted him. which I called out as bad logic and you never really followed up with any further Allo updates since then. Not entirely your fault, Allo hasn't

done anything

since then

[nomnomnom]

We have like six days left nom, from the first Votecount

I somehow read we had one day left rofl

[GuiltyLion]

auro's pretty townread right now but you keep pulling up this notion of being paranoid of him and/or expecting him to read you better when you've kinda acknowledged . you have these unreasonable expectations of how he ought to be reading you and when he doesn't live up to them, you say you can't townread him. it feels like a way for you to keep him at arm's length and allowing you to not townread him.
idk why this is more likely to come from town!you than scum!you

i was actually going to call you out on complaining about my eve read when it's kinda similar to your own but i just went through my own iso and i don't see the post i thought i wrote so maybe it never made it into the thread
but basically, i think that she's scummy on the face of it but there's a few things that point to town, so i'm not particularly interested there right now:
1. her opener wrt the traffic analyst probably just doesn't come from scum, i don't think scum are that brazen usually
2. calling out auro for him being willing to be off-wagon when from his pov he knows he's town
3. and just her whole shtick i have a hard time seeing scum play that way the whole game

i'm still kinda trying to work on getting a definitive read on allo but he's ignored my last few posts

I will say

this post is the first post that kinda rings town!Skitter for me

as for the first point regarding Auro - yeah, it's hard for me to fully townread people when they spend most of the game discrediting/ignoring my scumreads and saying I'm scum! that's normal, is it not? Especially when I do try to engage with that player in good faith and answer as many questions they ask of me as much as I reasonably can and it never seems to make any headway with them.

as for why I am kinda thinking it's town - I'm not sure if scum!Skitter says she was going to call me out for ignoring an explanation but then realizes she didn't actually ever post it, that's a bit hard for scum to think of or naturally fake. I think scum would kinda just acknowledge that they hadn't posted it yet, not make up an extra lie about originally going to call me out

[Auro]

Except there's been tons of discussion on the strategy and it should already be easy to see why I volunteer.

Molla answered it because it's a question that's already been answered before, even if his perceived reason is "surfacey". That is not a "defense of Auro" , and lack of depth in Molla's thoughts is not AI for him (I am sure of this; please check any of his towngames if you think I'm wrong)

[GuiltyLion]

again, I am not trying to say MOLLA IS SCUM FOR THIS, I am trying to explain to you why I feel town vibes from Eve

there's more to respond to Skitter but this is all I got for now, it's midnight

[GuiltyLion]

and it literally is a defense of you, for whatever reason Eve wanted YOU to answer that question. Not Molla

[Auro]

when they spend most of the game discrediting/ignoring my scumreads and saying I'm scum! that's normal, is it not?

I have townread people pushing me many times: if their reasoning on me is legitimate and I don't see bad faith, I evaluate them on different parameters.

and it literally is a defense of you, for whatever reason Eve wanted YOU to answer that question. Not Molla

He didn't say I was town, he didn't say the question sucked, he just offered the reason he understood from what was already discussed many times in thread.

Firstly, it's a huge stretch to guess an intent of "let me defend Auro by saying this and gain towncred!". If we're scum together there's no reason to have to defend me; and "easy avenues to engage with the thread" can literally apply to anything! Even considering this as "towncred noise" it makes sense if his noise to signal ratio is skewed, but that is not the case - shoving him to the scumpile from just that one post is

[Karnage]

christ there's a lot to catch up on

[Karnage]

re: allo

calling him town was inaccurate. my 453 better reflects my view

looked back through allo's ISO and while it doesn't scream town it doesn't scream scum either. There's a better lynch out there I think

[acryon]

Oh boy this was a lot to catch up on...I did skim some things. First some reactions, then a post in a bit with summary thoughts.

Re: Allo

I don't like Saurasaurus Rex's posts. I think Eve's shifted a bit scummier with her vote on BBmolla. I feel like you're getting a bit townier, but I still scumread you.

allo why exactly are you scumreading acryon?
i'm actually kinda surprised that you're still voting acryon and not voting eve tbh?

Yeah this pinged me a bit. His best vote is on someone who is “getting a bit townier”?

he feels really earnest with the "let's not Lynch anyone yet guys" and "TLDNE misrepped me and is certain mafia" takes. There's no self-consciousness in his ISO at all. I don't agree with most if not all of what he's said but I do feel that he believes in it.

"Let's not lynch anyone yet" seems like a very easily faked towntell. It felt like an easy way to make a noncontroversial statement by agreeing with the sentiment of the town, but also not take any responsibility for the wagon. And I view the second thing as scum trying to come up with an easy excuse to push somebody.

This is easily the best post I’ve seen from Allo yet.

allo, again, why are you still voting acryon?

I will say that it feels unlike scum to ignore people’s questions on multiple occasions.

Other Comment

I was already cooling on Eve and this recent stretch hasn't helped.

i actually thought the recent stretch was fine, for once

Interesting. What about it did you like?

The TA has to play cleverly. I think even if they get a guilty, they don't out it immediately but just crumb it. But thoughts on these are a little unformed, this is also something to discuss.

I’m not sure I totally agree here, but if they do, they better REALLY crumb it.

I don't feel good about GuiltyLion, if I haven't said that in my walls to him

The walls between you two did not feel like TvT. I’m not sure which side is which though.

Having a hard time staying engaged in a game with massive walls, let me be real here.

Ditto.

[Auro]

The walls between you two did not feel like TvT

Could totes be TvT

[northsidegal]

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[northsidegal]

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